View Full Version : Is Pacman the greatest Asian Champ of all time?


Mr. Violence
12-06-2004, 04:16 AM
Do you think Pacman is the greatest Asian champ of all time, there are a few great ones in history. Like a guy by the name of Flash Elorde who is also Fillipino that I read about. Do you know of any other devestating Asian fighters who is also great like Pacman?

Nick1998
12-07-2004, 02:55 PM
Gotta be Flash Elorde.

cple
12-07-2004, 03:15 PM
No one even comes close to Fighting Harada.

Nick1998
12-07-2004, 03:17 PM
Yea, I forgot about that guy. I was trying to think of his name but I kept coming up with Royal Kobayasi. I heard he was the man but never seen him or know much about him

cple
12-07-2004, 03:29 PM
Harada is the only fighter to ever win the flyweight and batamweight world titles. He should've won the featherweight title too if it weren't for a controversial decision. Harada is the only man to defeat the great Eder Jofre, albeit the first fight was extremely close and could've gone to Jofre.

Nick1998
12-07-2004, 03:36 PM
what nationality was he and what time period did he fight. Wasnt it the 1930's

Yogi
12-07-2004, 03:50 PM
what nationality was he and what time period did he fight. Wasnt it the 1930's

He's Japanese and fought in the 60's, Nick.

Mr. Ryan
12-07-2004, 04:22 PM
Pacquiao is quite possible the best asian champ of all time because of one quality, consistency. Elorde would win a fight, then lose one, he was inconsistent. He was a bookies nightmare. But he was very talented and slick.

psychopath
12-07-2004, 07:24 PM
Do you think Pacman is the greatest Asian champ of all time, there are a few great ones in history. Like a guy by the name of Flash Elorde who is also Fillipino that I read about. Do you know of any other devestating Asian fighters who is also great like Pacman?


Maybe it too early to say that . . . . I feel that it all depends on how his career will turn out. Take note that Manny is fighting only his fourth fight as a featherweight.

Right his stand against Flash Elorde and another filipino pug named PANCHO Villa is still debatable. ;)

n14061981
12-08-2004, 12:08 PM
He has the potential to become the greatest asian champ.

Great
12-08-2004, 02:04 PM
Yea, I forgot about that guy. I was trying to think of his name but I kept coming up with Royal Kobayasi. I heard he was the man but never seen him or know much about him
Saw some his fights. A severe knockouter. The good boxer.

lapulapu
12-08-2004, 09:46 PM
PACMAN is the Asian that made the greatest impact. PACMAN raped Marco Antonio Barrera on the ring in full view of his rabid fans. MAB was certainly a P4P great at that time and he's still in the top ten P4P right now.

Nick1998
12-09-2004, 03:07 PM
Plus what is so great about PACMAN is he will fight anyone, anywhere, at any weight.

Yogi
12-09-2004, 03:54 PM
PACMAN is the Asian that made the greatest impact. PACMAN raped Marco Antonio Barrera on the ring in full view of his rabid fans. MAB was certainly a P4P great at that time and he's still in the top ten P4P right now.

Pacquiao's win over Barerra was great, no doubt, but that was still only a win over a featherweight who'd be lucky to crack the all-time top 20 of that division...Fighting Harada twice beat THE single greatest fighter that has EVER fought in the bantamweight division, and those two wins make Pacquiao's win over Barrera seem quite insignificant.

grayfist
12-13-2004, 09:21 PM
Just a glimpse of four fighters mentioned on the posts:

Ceferino Garcia (welterweight/ middleweight) 100 wins (65 KOs), 27 losses, 9 draws.
Memorable fights: Lost on decision to and also held the immortal Henry Armstrong to a draw., in two encounters.

Credited with inventing the "Bolo Punch", now illegal.

Some in the New York press speculated at the time that were it not for the presence of Armstrong, Garcia would have been the main force at welterweight.

Garcia also met the great Barney Ross and lost a close decision.

Pancho Villa-(Fly/ Bantam) 83-7-5 (25 KOs)

Died at the age of 23, soon after facing Jimmy McLarnin with a swollen jaw, an infected tooth having been extracted just hours before he climbed the ring.

Won the world fly title from Jimmy Wilde at the Polo Grounds in 1923. Wilde had only two losses going into the fight.

Was suspended for 8 months by the NYSAC, then the main governing body of the sport, for ducking Frankie Genaro. Villa claimed he was unable to face Genaro because he had injured a shoulder during training.

Was testing the waters in the Bantamweight division when he died.

Fighting Harada (Fly/Bantam/Feather) 55 wins (22 KOs), 7 losses and no draws.

Won the WBA Fly title from Pone Kingpetch of Thailand by TKO11. He lost it in their return match (his first defense) by a very controversial split decision, less than a year later. Many among the Thai press thought of the decision as garbage. Pone, however, subsequently, proved that he was a good champ.

Won the WBC/WBA Bantam diadem by Split decision over the great Eder Jofre in Nagoya; had 3 successful defenses before meeting Jofre in a rematch which he won by UD in Tokyo. Several defenses later, he lost the WBA/WBC Bantam crown to Lionel Ross by MD in Tokyo.

Moved up to featherweight and met Johnny Famechon for the second time (he had earlier lost to Famechon in a non-title tiff). In their second meeting which was held in Sydney, Willie Pep, the ref and sole judge, at first declared Harada winner; then, changed his decision in favor of Famechon amid nasty crowd reaction to the first call. Famechon was Sydney's local hero.

Gabriel "Flash" Elorde (Feather/Jr. Light/ Light) 87 (33)- 27- 2

Acknowledged as the first, widely recognized, Jr. Lightweight world title holder (the division had just been created) after trashing Harold Gomes.

Had failed campaigns in the featherweight division, but can look back to a win over the immortal Sandy Saddler by points in a non-title fight in Manila (Saddler subsequently evened the score by KO'ing Elorde in a title bout in NY).

Went up to Lightweight --even as he held on to the Jr. Light title-- to face Carlos Ortiz but was KOd.

He went back down to Jr. Light; then not too long after, lost the title.

His multiple meetings with Tirou Kosaka of Japan for the Oriental Lightweight crown were sagas many classify as equal to those of any asian boxing rivalries. Elorde won each of those meetings, but had to work plenty to chalk up the victories.

;) :D

THRILLAinmanila
12-13-2004, 09:26 PM
Right now Flash Elorde has the edge on Pac .
But because Pac is still young and has a long way to go
he has the potential to be IT.

Many say his popularity is already equal to Elorde during Flash' heydey.
And one thing going for Pac is his tremendous international appeal.

By the way grayfist that was some awesome info you just posted there.
Great going ! Nice info on the other two Filipino Greats Ceferino Garcia and Pancho Villa !!

bytee
12-13-2004, 09:30 PM
pac isnt the greatest yet . . . but hes the highest paid asian fighter of all time ( for now! ) . . .

THRILLAinmanila
12-13-2004, 09:33 PM
pac isnt the greatest yet . . . but hes the highest paid asian fighter of all time ( for now! ) . . .

He has already earned more money than Pancho Villa, Ceferino Garcia, and Flash Elorde (the 3 greatest Filipino boxers) did in their lifetime . Of course the pay was not that high during those times though...

grayfist
12-13-2004, 09:38 PM
Right now Flash Elorde has the edge on Pac .
But because Pac is still young and has a long way to go
he has the potential to be IT.

Many say his popularity is already equal to Elorde during Flash' heydey.
And one thing going for Pac is his tremendous international appeal.

By the way grayfist that was some awesome info you just posted there.
Great going ! Nice info on the other two Filipino Greats Ceferino Garcia and Pancho Villa !!Thanks, pal! :)

Garcia and Villa were also huge in their times, it was said.

Garcia, however, defended his title only once in the Philippines; at the Rizal Football Stadium. The immortal Jack Dempsey was ref. The name of his opponent escapes me at the moment, but I remember that he won. I'm guessing that it was on points, but pretty dominant.

I'm not too sure about Villa. Elorde had about half of his fights in Manila. That may account for his enduring popularity.
No TV feeds from the US during Garcia's and Villa's times, you know. Few, if any, images are stuck on the Filipinos' minds, with regard Villa and Garcia. ;) :D

THRILLAinmanila
12-13-2004, 09:39 PM
Thanks, pal! :)

Garcia and Villa were also huge in their times, it was said.

Garcia, however, defended his title only once in the Philippines; at the Rizal Football Stadium. The immortal Jack Dempsey was ref. The name of his opponent escapes me at the moment, but I remember that he won. I'm guessing that it was on points, but pretty dominant.

I'm not too sure about Villa. Elorde had about half of his fights in Manila. That may account for his enduring popularity.
No TV feeds from the US during Garcia's and Villa's times, you know. Few, if any, images are stuck on the Filipinos' minds, with regard Villa and Garcia. ;) :D

That's the reason why Pac is destined to be the greatest Asian Fighter of all time.. He is internationally popular and has taken on the feather greats of his time with more than respectable results :cool:

grayfist
12-13-2004, 09:53 PM
That's the reason why Pac is destined to be the greatest Asian Fighter of all time.. He is internationally popular and has taken on the feather greats of his time with more than respectable results :cool:Yup, all those four mentioned: Garcia, Villa, Harada and, yes, even Elorde, didn't get the kind of world attention Pac is getting.(Though, Elorde, I have been told, had the benefit of having films of his fights shown in movie houses throughout the archipelago and he was into local showbiz as well! Garcia and Villa were not.)

One can say that Pac came at the right time. What with the heavyweights, which often gets the largest chunk of the pie, not attracting too much, and with all those names such as MAB, Morales, etc. right in his class! :)

Looking at the current Jr. Light-featherweight-SuperBantam-Bantam situation, I think the only decade comparable-- even a tad better than this decade-- is the one where Sal Sanchez, Arguello, Pedroza,Young Azumah, WGomez, La Porte, Zarate, etc. were climbing rings! Late 60's through the 70's and then early 80's. That generation produced many Hall of Famers!

Good chance that this one will too! :)

THRILLAinmanila
12-13-2004, 09:55 PM
Yup, all those four mentioned: Garcia, Villa, Harada and, yes, even Elorde, didn't get the kind of world attention Pac is getting.(Though, Elorde, I have been told, had the benefit of having his fights show in movie houses throughout the archipelago!)

One can say that Pac came at the right time. What with the heavyweights, which often gets the largest chunk of the pie, not attracting too much, and with all those names such as MAB, Morales, etc. right in his class! :)

Looking at the current Jr. Light-featherweight-SuperBantam-Bantam situation, I think the only decade comparable-- even a tad better than this decade-- is the one where Sal Sanchez, Arguello, Pedroza,Young Azumah, WGomez, La Porte, Zarate, etc. were climbing rings! Late 60's through the 70's and then early 80's. That generation produced many Hall of Famers!

Good chance that this one will too! :)


Great post again grayfist. Agree with you a hundred %.
I'm gonna use your post on the Filipino greats on my 1,000th post. I just wanna share with the boxing world the great Filipino boxing tradition :) if you don't mind...

grayfist
12-13-2004, 10:03 PM
Great post again grayfist. Agree with you a hundred %.
I'm gonna use your post on the Filipino greats on my 1,000th post. I just wanna share with the boxing world the great Filipino boxing tradition :) if you don't mind...Sure, pal! :) It's yours to do what you please! Glad to help! :D

nadz
12-13-2004, 10:21 PM
Harada is the only fighter to ever win the flyweight and batamweight world titles. He should've won the featherweight title too if it weren't for a controversial decision. Harada is the only man to defeat the great Eder Jofre, albeit the first fight was extremely close and could've gone to Jofre.
Reminder Pacman is also...
Former WBC FlyWeight champ
Former IBF Champ
and current Peoples Feather Champ...

ispayder
12-13-2004, 11:03 PM
I'd say that Pacman and Elorde are almost even in the sense that they both fought the best in their times. However, Pacman has a little advantage because he is still young and can still go a long way.

K-Yo
12-15-2004, 06:50 PM
prince naseem? is yemen afrcia or asia?

manny is certainly one of the most exciting fighters out there right now.

grayfist
12-16-2004, 12:38 AM
Reminder Pacman is also...
Former WBC FlyWeight champ
Former IBF Champ
and current Peoples Feather Champ...Two other Filipinos have the distinction of having won two titles in two weight divisions, too:

Luisito Espinosa- WBC Bantam and WBC Feather
Dodie (Boy) Penalosa- IBF Light Fly and IBF Fly

Harada won only the WBA version of the Fly div championship (from Pone Kingpetch of Thailand to whom he, later, ceded the belt in the controversy-marred return match, which was his first defense); and,

The WBC/WBA versions (both) of the Bantam world title from Eder Jofre. As there was no IBF then and no other significant organization, he may well be considered as having been undisputed Bantam titlist.

Harada nearly won the Feather crown from Johnny Famechon in Australia. Willie Pep initially declared the fight in favor of Harada then changed his mind to favor Famechon after the crowd became nasty. Pep was the ref and sole judge. Famechon, who was Sydney's local hero, however didn't get his THE RING (magazine) belt until 20 years later! It was reportedly lost (or had been stolen) all those twenty years, and was ony recovered after THE RING paid $17,000 to an antique shop. Famechon accepted the belt, but later decided that it was too small for his grown waistline and consigned it to a museum in Australia. ;) :)

Note: that controversy-marred Famechon-Harada title fight in Australia was actually the second meeting of the two. Famechon earlier beat Harada in a non-title contest, without any controversy.

Mr. Violence
12-16-2004, 12:51 AM
I am amazed by grayfist's ring knowledge. You really know your boxing history man. Do any of you guys remember Morris East? :)

grayfist
12-17-2004, 01:35 AM
I am amazed by grayfist's ring knowledge. You really know your boxing history man. Do any of you guys remember Morris East? :)Thanks, pal! :)

Morris East! I wrote a post a few days ago about Filipino champs-- picking up a thread started by Thrilla.., actually-- and I said there that there was an Amerasian child who became champ. Forgot his name then. Now you reminded me. Yes Morris East indeed. Sired by a U.S. serviceman who was assigned at Subic Naval Base and his Filipina girlfriend. Won the WBA championship from Hiranaka in Tokyo by TKO11 but lost the title on his first defense 4 months later in Argentina to Juan Coggi (TKO8).

The biggest story about East however that caught the fancy of U.S. tv audiences did not concern his ring adventures but his oddessey in search of his father who had abandoned him and his mom before he was born. Twas featured on CNN!

He and his father eventually got together. And, not much later, East decided to let go of boxing.

Nothing has been heard from him since. Well, I haven't heard any... I presume he's still here in the U.S.

He fought from 1989 to 1995 and ended his career with a resume' of 20 (12KOs)-4-0.

grayfist
12-17-2004, 01:55 AM
Anybody remember Saensak Muangsurin?

The 5'7 southapw from Thailand wrested the WBC light welter title from a Japanese (who's name I can't recall at the moment)and made 11 successful defenses agains such challengers as Saoul Mamby, Francisco Moreno, Mike Everett, Pedro Fernandez...

In June 1976, he lost the crown to Miguel Velasquez in Madrid by DQ (he was not the cleanest fighter in history; though the DQ was controversial ;) ) but regained it from Velasquez four months later in Segovia, Spain in a rematch that lasted less than 2 rounds.

He holds a record that may never be ever equalled or eclipsed:HE WON A WORLD TITLE IN ONLY HIS THIRD PRO FIGHT!

He debuted in Nov. 1974 against a Filipino named Rudy Barro whom he KOd in the first round. :)

THRILLAinmanila
12-17-2004, 02:54 AM
I'd say this for one.
IF Pac is able to hurdle JMM, MAB, and Morales
next year. , in my books he would already be THE
greatest Asian champ. But that's a BIG IF right now ;)

moochi
12-17-2004, 06:58 AM
get real.......i think it is far too early to make such judgements.......let him clean out the rest of the division and then we should start thinking about this.

JOM'S
12-17-2004, 06:58 AM
I'd say this for one.
IF Pac is able to hurdle JMM, MAB, and Morales
next year. , in my books he would already be THE
greatest Asian champ. But that's a BIG IF right now ;)

yeah that big if, but if he can do it, he will be officially be a champion in 4 weight classes, establishing him as the greatest Asian Fighter...

grayfist
12-17-2004, 08:31 AM
Here's another one of asia's best: ;)

Jung-Koo Chang- 38 (17KOs)-4-0

Reigned as the WBC Light Flyweight Champ from March 1983 when he TKOd Hilario Zapata, until December 1989 when he was outpointed by Humberto Gonzalez over 12 rounds. In between he had a string of 16 successful title defenses.

After his defeat to Gonzalez, Chang tried the Flyweight Division twice, but was foiled at each turn by Sot Chitalada and Muanghai Kittikasem.

Chang didn't use his passport much. He had only one fight outside his country; in Tokyo when he TKOd (8) Hidayuki Ohashi in 1988. ;)

JOM'S
12-18-2004, 02:39 AM
Here's another one of asia's best: ;)

Jung-Koo Chang- 38 (17KOs)-4-0

Reigned as the WBC Light Flyweight Champ from March 1983 when he TKOd Hilario Zapata, until December 1989 when he was outpointed by Humberto Gonzalez over 12 rounds. In between he had a string of 16 successful title defenses.

After his defeat to Gonzalez, Chang tried the Flyweight Division twice, but was foiled at each turn by Sot Chitalada and Muanghai Kittikasem.

Chang didn't use his passport much. He had only one fight outside his country; in Tokyo when he TKOd (8) Hidayuki Ohashi in 1988. ;)

this Jung-Koo guy is really good he did what dodie boy should have done, i really think before if dodie boy penalosa has two good legs he can ktfo Hilario Zapata, who boxed beautifuly and run around the ring for an easy UD win against dodie boy...

Chups
12-18-2004, 04:21 AM
I'm surprised nobody is mentioning Khaosai Galaxy...not the greatest but worth mentioning.

Asia's IBHOF

Pancho Villa- Filipino
Gabriel "Flash" Elorde- Filipino
Fighting Harada-- Japanese
Khaosai Galaxy---- Thai

Chups
12-18-2004, 04:26 AM
Khaosai Galaxy--Known as the Thai Tyson, Galaxy dominated the junior bantamweight division from 1984 until his retirement in 1991. He defended the title 19 times (16 KO). He ended his career with a record of 50-1 (44 KO).
Together with Khaokor, they are the first pair of twins to become World Champions.

MlLkMan
12-18-2004, 11:06 AM
Hes the greatest Pacific Islander champ.

grayfist
12-18-2004, 12:10 PM
this Jung-Koo guy is really good he did what dodie boy should have done, i really think before if dodie boy penalosa has two good legs he can ktfo Hilario Zapata, who boxed beautifuly and run around the ring for an easy UD win against dodie boy...You said it, buddy! ;) :)

grayfist
12-18-2004, 12:15 PM
Khaosai Galaxy--Known as the Thai Tyson, Galaxy dominated the junior bantamweight division from 1984 until his retirement in 1991. He defended the title 19 times (16 KO). He ended his career with a record of 50-1 (44 KO).
Together with Khaokor, they are the first pair of twins to become World Champions.Khaosai, yes, buddy. He should certainly at least be in the mix. :)

Lots of great Asian fighters! It's not as if Asia has not been with its share of fistic glory. Sadly, though, not too many of Asia's great ones have been known throughout the rest of the world.:)

grayfist
12-18-2004, 12:37 PM
This may be seen as having no direct bearing to the thread, but who knows...? Having his name mentioned here may turn out to be prophetic? ;)

He's Flyweight prospect Brian Viloria, who has just racked up his number of wins to 16 without a loss, 10 of those 16 wins by KO.

Viloria, an American of Filipino extraction, just KO'd Angel Priolo, who came into the ring with only a solitary loss (to former IBF champ Irene Pacheco). He had accepted the offer to face Priolo on only TWO DAYS NOTICE, confident that he would acquit himself well due to his having trained under Freddie Roach at the Wild Card gym for months.

The KO came :54 seconds of the 7th round, after furious, brisk exchanges in the previous rounds.

He is nicknamed "Hawaiian Punch", and is the second to have been given that monicker; the first was Jesus Salud, also a Hawaii-based Fil American who had a short reign as jr. feather champ.

When President Bush tendered a state dinner at the White House, not too long ago, for visiting Philippine President Gloria Arroyo, the Waipahu-based Viloria was one of the invited guests. Thus, among his most cherished mementos is, reportedly, a picture of George W. introducing him to the lady Head of State.

But there could be some hitch in having Viloria in the mix (if subsequent performance justifies his being in the mix): he's American, though, of Filipino ancestry. Would he still qualify? :)

Oh well, that's still in the future...Viloria still has ways to go! ;) :D

Note:Viloria was on the US Olympic team....

Chups
12-18-2004, 03:49 PM
Yup he's American, I think Filipinos treat him the way Mexicans treat Oscar Dela Hoya.

{BrownBomber}
12-18-2004, 11:17 PM
Yup he's American, I think Filipinos treat him the way Mexicans treat Oscar Dela Hoya.
Thats because u guys have a JCC type hero already. (Manny)

Dude is that guy wearing eye linear?

Chups
12-19-2004, 12:19 AM
Thats because u guys have a JCC type hero already. (Manny)

Dude is that guy wearing eye linear?


Hmmmmmm....good point. No he's not wearing eyeliner...its just a bad B&W pic :D

grayfist
12-19-2004, 01:24 AM
Hmmmmmm....good point. No he's not wearing eyeliner...its just a bad B&W pic Pardon me for getting in? :)

I could be mistaken but I think that's Apolinario Mabini on your avatar? "Brains of the Philippine Revolutionary Movement" against both Spain and the U.S.? :) That pix must have been taken over a century ago with one of those large contraptions they used to take pictures with?! :eek: :)

JOM'S
12-19-2004, 07:52 AM
Pardon me for getting in? :)

I could be mistaken but I think that's Apolinario Mabini on your avatar? "Brains of the Philippine Revolutionary Movement" against both Spain and the U.S.? :) That pix must have been taken over a century ago with one of those large contraptions they used to take pictures with?! :eek: :)

yes he is apolinario mabini alright...

grayfist remember Andy Ganigan he is also American Hawian with Filipino decent and also nickname "Hawaian Punch", he was knocking out guys left and right until he got koed himself by the great alexis arguello...

jesus salud, andy ganigan and now villoria so now 3 guys share the nickname "hawian punch" ???

grayfist
12-19-2004, 10:06 AM
yes he is apolinario mabini alright...

grayfist remember Andy Ganigan he is also American Hawian with Filipino decent and also nickname "Hawaian Punch", he was knocking out guys left and right until he got koed himself by the great alexis arguello...

jesus salud, andy ganigan and now villoria so now 3 guys share the nickname "hawian punch" ???Yes, Ganigan! How I have forgotten! This much I can say: has he fought in a different era that did not have the likes of Arguello, he would have carved a neat name for himself in boxing history!

I just hope Viloria doesn't go the way of both Ganigan and Salud, buddy; both excellent fighters, except...oh well, luck was not on their side in terms of eras, I guess! :o

Thanks for the reminder, pal!

Note: Looking around the flyweight division, I think, Viloria has a better chance than those that were afforded by circumstances to Ganigan and Salud. He has to face another Filipino, though. Gabi, who I have heard so much about. I haven't seen Gabi fight; neither live or on tape. Is he as good as advertised? Better than Viloria?

JOM'S
12-19-2004, 01:47 PM
Yes, Ganigan! How I have forgotten! This much I can say: has he fought in a different era that did not have the likes of Arguello, he would have carved a neat name for himself in boxing history!

I just hope Viloria doesn't go the way of both Ganigan and Salud, buddy; both excellent fighters, except...oh well, luck was not on their side in terms of eras, I guess! :o

Thanks for the reminder, pal!

Note: Looking around the flyweight division, I think, Viloria has a better chance than those that were afforded by circumstances to Ganigan and Salud. He has to face another Filipino, though. Gabi, who I have heard so much about. I haven't seen Gabi fight; neither live or on tape. Is he as good as advertised? Better than Viloria?

i wish i can help you buddy but, i also never seen Prince Gabi fight before but what i was hearing he was the ripest among the Filipino prospects to be champion, hope he does not face villoria anytime soon...

wolve
12-19-2004, 09:28 PM
I go by PACQUIAO..... the Greatest Asian fighter.

Nautilus
12-22-2004, 12:22 AM
Do you think Pacman is the greatest Asian champ of all time, there are a few great ones in history. Like a guy by the name of Flash Elorde who is also Fillipino that I read about. Do you know of any other devestating Asian fighters who is also great like Pacman?


Kostya Tzyu is the best Eurasian Champion of all time.

grayfist
12-22-2004, 12:27 AM
i wish i can help you buddy but, i also never seen Prince Gabi fight before but what i was hearing he was the ripest among the Filipino prospects to be champion, hope he does not face villoria anytime soon...Share your hope, pal. Like I said somewhere on this site, I wish they'd get each a slice of the world championship pie, defend against a few, before getting together for unification. That way, the loser can have a kitty stashed away... ;)

jabsRstiff
12-22-2004, 09:57 AM
I'm glad someone brought up Khaosai Galaxy.
He was truly great, a devastating & dominating fighter.

I hope I'm getting this guy's name right.... a South Korean named Myoung-Woo-Yuh.
He was a light flyweight champ through the 80's....& made 19 title defenses.
He retired, without having lost his crown in the ring.

Yogi
12-22-2004, 03:39 PM
I hope I'm getting this guy's name right.... a South Korean named Myoung-Woo-Yuh.
He was a light flyweight champ through the 80's....& made 19 title defenses.
He retired, without having lost his crown in the ring.

Myung-Woo Yuh was a pretty good fighter who, although not overly talented, used what skills he did have to the best of his ability (not very quick-fisted for his size, but very tough, well conditioned, and threw tons of punches in his fights).

And yeah, he does have the record for title defenses in the 108 lbs division, but he benefitted from some home town judging in more than a few of those fights that took place in Korea (Olivo, DeJesus and Gamez, spring to mind). He should have a few more losses on his record than what is shown.

Yuh was a good fighter, but not quite as great as his record suggests...I wouldn't rank him in the all-time top five of his weight class, and would definately favour the superior Jung-Koo Chang to get the better of him had they had met.

stevenalexander
12-22-2004, 06:07 PM
ya i think so 2

czars_salad
12-22-2004, 08:24 PM
Kostya Tzyu is the best Eurasian Champion of all time.

Tzyu is not Eurasian, he is Australian

czars_salad
12-22-2004, 08:34 PM
i can name three boxers who could match manny's greatness:

pancho villa
flash elorde
fighting harada

of the three, history would tell us that pancho villa would give pacman a run for his money as for who hails the title of being the greatest asian fighter. p4p i think villa is above manny in terms of skills, as what i had read in some boxing magazines. pancho villa fought in the flyweight division but he went up against other opponents who are superior in size and strength. as far as i know villa fought over 100 fights when he was still 22 years old and losing only some. historians call him the greatest flyweight of all time.

he died at a very young age of 22(?) having fought more than 100 fights. cause of death? untreated swollen gum. he had a tooth removed by a dentist then afterwards drank the whole night out with friends then the following day or days later he fought a boxing match, with a swollen gum!

Lefthookhappy19
12-22-2004, 09:37 PM
Harada is easily the greatest. Should have been 3 weight champ only for an awful decision vs Famechon (by one Willie Pep). And of course beating Eder Jofre who's top 15 all time P4P. Harada himself is legit top 30 all time P4P.

jabsRstiff
12-23-2004, 07:33 AM
Tzyu is not Eurasian, he is Australian


Tszyu went to Australia at the start of his pro career.

bandito
12-23-2004, 02:55 PM
Do you think Pacman is the greatest Asian champ of all time, there are a few great ones in history. Like a guy by the name of Flash Elorde who is also Fillipino that I read about. Do you know of any other devestating Asian fighters who is also great like Pacman?


how about asking this question when his career is over. u can't compare pac to any of the great asian champs yet!! not even close

Chups
12-23-2004, 03:32 PM
how about asking this question when his career is over. u can't compare pac to any of the great asian champs yet!! not even close


Nice to see you here Bandito...and you're right only when Pacman gets to be a Famer then we can start comparing him with the best.

Chups
12-23-2004, 03:33 PM
how about asking this question when his career is over. u can't compare pac to any of the great asian champs yet!! not even close


Gave you a 160K points!!

lapulapu
12-30-2004, 09:31 PM
i can name three boxers who could match manny's greatness:

pancho villa
flash elorde
fighting harada

of the three, history would tell us that pancho villa would give pacman a run for his money as for who hails the title of being the greatest asian fighter. p4p i think villa is above manny in terms of skills, as what i had read in some boxing magazines. pancho villa fought in the flyweight division but he went up against other opponents who are superior in size and strength. as far as i know villa fought over 100 fights when he was still 22 years old and losing only some. historians call him the greatest flyweight of all time.

he died at a very young age of 22(?) having fought more than 100 fights. cause of death? untreated swollen gum. he had a tooth removed by a dentist then afterwards drank the whole night out with friends then the following day or days later he fought a boxing match, with a swollen gum!


I saw Flash Elorde in several Philippine movies and some interviews. I think Flash does not have much in the head. Of course, the Flash didn't have much education like Pacquiao. But Pacquiao has more in-born brain than Elorde or any other Filipino boxer.

Pacquiao displayed more than boxing skill when he answered Larry Merchant in English several times in an afterfight interview. I don't believe Harada or Elorde could ever attempt to do that.

Pancho Villa's life was given a spin, but what can you say to a boxer that died a pauper?

Pacquiao has so much ahead of him. He's destined for greater achievements in his country aside from boxing.

olympic boy
12-31-2004, 01:18 AM
when he beats morales then that's it...pacman will be the best asian champ :D

tyte3
01-01-2005, 06:18 PM
Pcaquaio is getting there

JaNnO
01-01-2005, 11:12 PM
Pcaquaio is getting there

i hope he accomplishes it.

ramonski
01-07-2005, 04:03 AM
Yes i agree, for me PACMAN is the greatest asian champ of all time. considering the skills and talent of all his previous opponents and manage to win. elorde maybe the great boxer in his time.

Explosivo
01-07-2005, 03:46 PM
I like Pac, but if he is the greatest Asian champ in history, that doesnt say a lot about the previous Asian champs. Pac has beaten Barrera, and thats pretty much it. Lets see what he does in the rematch against Marquez and then put him up against Morales and see what happens with him.

Chups
01-07-2005, 04:25 PM
Pacman is NOT the greatest asian..... he is not even the greatest Filipino. Though he has the potential, those who are saying that now of him is premature.

m00ks
01-07-2005, 05:36 PM
Pacman is NOT the greatest asian..... he is not even the greatest Filipino. Though he has the potential, those who are saying that now of him is premature.

yeah too early. People might jinx it. SHhhhhh

mr. bojangles
01-11-2005, 05:08 AM
Consider these

Gabriel "Flash" Elorde

Defended his OPBF Lightweight belt 14 times in a span of 9 years (from 1957 to 1966)
Defended his World Junior Lightweight belt 4 times (from 1960 to 1962)
Defended his WBC and WBA Superfeatherweight belt 7 times (from 1963 to 1967)
He was either OPBF Lightweight, WBC & WBA Superfeatherweight and/or World Junior Lightweight champion from 1957 to 1966. Having fought thirty three (33) world championship fights!



Compare that to the PacMan. NO COMPARISON.

He has a long way to go, now let go off his nuts for just a moment please.

mr. bojangles
01-11-2005, 05:17 AM
I saw Flash Elorde in several Philippine movies and some interviews. I think Flash does not have much in the head. Of course, the Flash didn't have much education like Pacquiao. But Pacquiao has more in-born brain than Elorde or any other Filipino boxer.

Pacquiao displayed more than boxing skill when he answered Larry Merchant in English several times in an afterfight interview. I don't believe Harada or Elorde could ever attempt to do that.

Pancho Villa's life was given a spin, but what can you say to a boxer that died a pauper?

Pacquiao has so much ahead of him. He's destined for greater achievements in his country aside from boxing.


So proficiency in the English language is now a factor to being considered as a "boxing great"? That's just plain laughable.

nadz
01-11-2005, 05:20 AM
So proficiency in the English language is now a factor to being considered as a "boxing great"? That's just plain laughable.
yes youre right but pacman is oviously known fighter not like the other asian great...

mr. bojangles
01-11-2005, 05:31 AM
Consider these

Gabriel "Flash" Elorde

Defended his OPBF Lightweight belt 14 times in a span of 9 years (from 1957 to 1966)
Defended his World Junior Lightweight belt 4 times (from 1960 to 1962)
Defended his WBC and WBA Superfeatherweight belt 7 times (from 1963 to 1967)
He was either OPBF Lightweight, WBC & WBA Superfeatherweight and/or World Junior Lightweight champion from 1957 to 1966. Having fought thirty three (33) world championship fights!







Compare that to the PacMan. NO COMPARISON.

He has a long way to go.


Fighting Harada's five (5) title defenses of his WBC and WBA Bantamweight belts doesn't even come close. Nor having fought in a total of ten (10) world championship fights in Flyweight, Bantamweight and Featherweight.

Khaosai Galaxy's nineteen (19) defenses of his WBA Superflyweight belt is also impressive.

mr. bojangles
01-11-2005, 05:32 AM
yes youre right but pacman is oviously known fighter not like the other asian great...


Don't confuse being popular with greatness.

If the thread was titled "Is PacMan the most popular Asian Champ of all time?", then maybe you're right.

lapulapu
01-13-2005, 12:42 PM
Don't confuse being popular with greatness.

If the thread was titled "Is PacMan the most popular Asian Champ of all time?", then maybe you're right.


Don't worry about the semantics. Pacman will step into Elorde's domain (130 lb weight) when MP tangles with Morales. Pacman does not need to spend his life in boxing to outdo what the Flash did.
It's unfortunate that its not easy to get the right fights coz of the whims of promoters and managers.
Pacman wants to fight the best just like Morales or maybe even Marquez, but fight arrangement is incredibly annoying for the fight fans.
But so far Pacman has generated far more excitement (in his previous 2 fights with MAB & Marquez and now Morales) than any 3 of Flash Elorde's fights. Flash Elorde was a resilient fighter but Pacman is definitely much much exciting. Even Erik Morales is dying of excitement (if not fear or doubt) in the coming clash with the Pacman.

AIR_KENG
01-15-2005, 09:44 PM
i agree with thrilla, when and if manny succeeds/wins in fighting morales and then take on marquez again and win, then i would consider him next to flash. flash is still the greatest asian champion, no doubt... his durability and his perseverance still outweighs any contender for asian greatness. but manny is still young, has a lot of ways to go, but i think he will be the greatest asian champ in due time, before he hanging up his gloves...

cple
01-15-2005, 11:52 PM
A lot of the Pacquiao supporters here aren't basing their reasoning on his accomplishments, but his excitement and potential. Many of these claims begin with "if Pacquiao" or "when Pacquiao" does this or that, he'll no doubt be the greatest. Hell, it's possible that some toddler in korea can one day be the greatest asian fighter of all-time, but you can't give him that label until he accomplishes something in the ring.

I do believe Pacquiao has the skill and potential to be one of the greatest, but as of now, he's not even close to the greatest. Let's not get carried away. Also, i do also think he's one of the most exciting fighters today, but excitement shouldn't be factored into a fighter's greatness. Greatness should only be based on accomplishments, skill, and level of opposition.

JaNnO
01-15-2005, 11:54 PM
Fighting Harada's five (5) title defenses of his WBC and WBA Bantamweight belts doesn't even come close. Nor having fought in a total of ten (10) world championship fights in Flyweight, Bantamweight and Featherweight.

Khaosai Galaxy's nineteen (19) defenses of his WBA Superflyweight belt is also impressive.

no disrespect to galaxy...but what were the quality of his opponents? and where did he fight in each fight...if they were in thailand...they won't look so impressive to me.

flash elorde held on to his title for over 8 years...but then again you could have the same argument. both were handled by lope sarreal.

i still consider pancho villa the greatest ever from asia.

Jose Rizal
01-16-2005, 12:23 AM
Do you think Pacman is the greatest Asian champ of all time, there are a few great ones in history. Like a guy by the name of Flash Elorde who is also Fillipino that I read about. Do you know of any other devestating Asian fighters who is also great like Pacman?

I'd answer that question once his career is over. Right now,he has achieved a lot despite his youth and he's still trying to make a name for himself. The way he's going though, I wouldn't be surprised if he indeed turns out to be the greatest Asian champ, if not one of the greatest champions the world has ever seen. Good luck to Manny Pacquio on his coming fight with another boxing superstar, El Terible.

JaNnO
01-16-2005, 12:28 AM
yes youre right but pacman is oviously known fighter not like the other asian great...

partly because information nowadays travel faster than sound and is more available to people in every corner of the world due to rapid advances in communications and computing... ;)

Chups
01-16-2005, 02:59 AM
I'd answer that question once his career is over. Right now,he has achieved a lot despite his youth and he's still trying to make a name for himself. The way he's going though, I wouldn't be surprised if he indeed turns out to be the greatest Asian champ, if not one of the greatest champions the world has ever seen. Good luck to Manny Pacquio on his coming fight with another boxing superstar, El Terible.


Welcome here Dr. Jose....Or are you? PM me so I can give you lots a money. :D

kadyo
01-16-2005, 04:08 AM
Welcome here Dr. Jose....Or are you? PM me so I can give you lots a money. :D
Right now yes, but of all time? Let us wait and see.

AIR_KENG
01-16-2005, 05:04 AM
A lot of the Pacquiao supporters here aren't basing their reasoning on his accomplishments, but his excitement and potential. Many of these claims begin with "if Pacquiao" or "when Pacquiao" does this or that, he'll no doubt be the greatest. Hell, it's possible that some toddler in korea can one day be the greatest asian fighter of all-time, but you can't give him that label until he accomplishes something in the ring.

I do believe Pacquiao has the skill and potential to be one of the greatest, but as of now, he's not even close to the greatest. Let's not get carried away. Also, i do also think he's one of the most exciting fighters today, but excitement shouldn't be factored into a fighter's greatness. Greatness should only be based on accomplishments, skill, and level of opposition.

well then the only thing that pacquiao has yet to have to be the greatest is accomplishment. but hasn't he accomplished anything yet? most of the messages here would be revolving around "when" and "ifs" because Manny has the skill, the potential and pretty much hurdled the best of the opposition. you can't discredit him. level of competition is already proven by manny. he might be. that "might be" is again used because he has a lot of ways to go, he can surpass anybody, if he remains to the hard-hitting manny until he reaches that goal...

cple
01-16-2005, 12:50 PM
well then the only thing that pacquiao has yet to have to be the greatest is accomplishment. but hasn't he accomplished anything yet? most of the messages here would be revolving around "when" and "ifs" because Manny has the skill, the potential and pretty much hurdled the best of the opposition. you can't discredit him. level of competition is already proven by manny. he might be. that "might be" is again used because he has a lot of ways to go, he can surpass anybody, if he remains to the hard-hitting manny until he reaches that goal...

I don't think Pacquaio's skill has been proven against all-time great opposition. Yes, he's proven to be one of the best today and very skillful. But it's very different to be proven today and proven all-time. Did he prove his skill against Marquez, when he was clearly outboxed? He proved his power, but what about his skill? So far his best outing has been against Marco Antonio Barrera. One fight alone doesn't make you a great fighter. His resume hasn't necessarily been the stuff of legends. Don't get me wrong, it's good and enough to grant him the label of one of the best today. But it's not on par with Fighting Harada's.

I simply don't like it when people rush to certain conclusions. It's not sure if Pacquiao will be the greatest; it's possible, but far from a garauntee. Past legends have already proven themselves, to somewhat place Pacquiao ahead of them based on potential rubs me the wrong way.

chinamayn
01-16-2005, 08:14 PM
Khaosai Galaxy
"Galaxy successfully defended the title 19 times, 16 by knockout, over the next seven years. Both are division records."
"Thailand's greatest boxer left the ring with a 49-1 (43) record and was acknowledged by many as the best, and most significant 115-pounder in history, as well as one of the greatest fighters from Asia."

JaNnO
01-16-2005, 09:30 PM
I don't think Pacquaio's skill has been proven against all-time great opposition. Yes, he's proven to be one of the best today and very skillful. But it's very different to be proven today and proven all-time. Did he prove his skill against Marquez, when he was clearly outboxed? He proved his power, but what about his skill? So far his best outing has been against Marco Antonio Barrera. One fight alone doesn't make you a great fighter. His resume hasn't necessarily been the stuff of legends. Don't get me wrong, it's good and enough to grant him the label of one of the best today. But it's not on par with Fighting Harada's.

I simply don't like it when people rush to certain conclusions. It's not sure if Pacquiao will be the greatest; it's possible, but far from a garauntee. Past legends have already proven themselves, to somewhat place Pacquiao ahead of them based on potential rubs me the wrong way.

no disrespect and i'm not saying pac is the gratest fighter from asia, but it seemed to me that you don't know pacquiao yourself, so how can you judge him?

AIR_KENG
01-17-2005, 09:47 AM
I don't think Pacquaio's skill has been proven against all-time great opposition. Yes, he's proven to be one of the best today and very skillful. But it's very different to be proven today and proven all-time. Did he prove his skill against Marquez, when he was clearly outboxed? He proved his power, but what about his skill? So far his best outing has been against Marco Antonio Barrera. One fight alone doesn't make you a great fighter. His resume hasn't necessarily been the stuff of legends. Don't get me wrong, it's good and enough to grant him the label of one of the best today. But it's not on par with Fighting Harada's.

I simply don't like it when people rush to certain conclusions. It's not sure if Pacquiao will be the greatest; it's possible, but far from a garauntee. Past legends have already proven themselves, to somewhat place Pacquiao ahead of them based on potential rubs me the wrong way.
that's the reason i say HE MIGHT BE. i am not assuring him of all-time greatness... and yes, he has proven his skill against marquez, he was outboxed simply because that was the style of the opposition, hit and run... if manny didn't attack marquez, could marquez show his wares? i am not discrediting marquez, he is probably the best counterpuncher today but manny showed some skill in that fight... you would be so one-sided if oyu say he didn't...

cple
01-17-2005, 01:30 PM
that's the reason i say HE MIGHT BE. i am not assuring him of all-time greatness... and yes, he has proven his skill against marquez, he was outboxed simply because that was the style of the opposition, hit and run... if manny didn't attack marquez, could marquez show his wares? i am not discrediting marquez, he is probably the best counterpuncher today but manny showed some skill in that fight... you would be so one-sided if oyu say he didn't...

Sure, Pacquiao displayed some skills against Marquez, especially his punching prowess and speed early on. However, he also showed some weaknesses in his armor. Not many all-time great boxers would get outboxed after knocking down their opponents a million times in the first round. They overcome stylistic hurdles by asserting their will or changing their game plan.

Pacquiao still has a ways to go. But he can surely prove me wrong though. He definately has the potential and physical capabilities to do so.

jabsRstiff
01-17-2005, 03:42 PM
no disrespect and i'm not saying pac is the gratest fighter from asia, but it seemed to me that you don't know pacquiao yourself, so how can you judge him?


You said this to CPLE ?

Dude, CPLE knows his ****.....& certainly knows about Pacquiao.
CPLE is speaking the truth about Pacquiao...& does so objectively.

JaNnO
01-28-2006, 08:29 PM
The way pac dismantled erik last week, he has just made a giant leap towards getting the "Greatest Asian Fighter" title. beating the two great mexicans was a big feat for any ordinary fighter and manny did the job in a manner many thought was nearly impossible. his ring exploits and boxing record are also excellent which could well argue that he belongs to the elite especially of his generation.

However to wrestle that distinction from the Gabriel “Flash” Elorde who is considered by many to have that distinction, Pacquiao needs to stay on top of his game for a longer period of time. Elorde was an excellent boxer and slugger and he was both WBC and WBA Super Featherweight champion at the same time for 7 years. There is no question that Pacquiao has fought the best fighters on his way has beaten most of them. Manny has also shown all the qualities of a boxer worthy to be enshrined to the Boxing Hall of Fame.

Cali_Rob
01-28-2006, 10:15 PM
Do you think Pacman is the greatest Asian champ of all time, there are a few great ones in history. Like a guy by the name of Flash Elorde who is also Fillipino that I read about. Do you know of any other devestating Asian fighters who is also great like Pacman?
I dont know if anyone already noted this but Pac is Pacific Islander so he cant be the best asian fighter ever.

JaNnO
01-28-2006, 10:30 PM
I dont know if anyone already noted this but Pac is Pacific Islander so he cant be the best asian fighter ever.

lol, philippines may not be part of mainland asia but its an asian nation, southeast asia to be specific.

grayfist
01-28-2006, 11:11 PM
Khaosai Galaxy
"Galaxy successfully defended the title 19 times, 16 by knockout, over the next seven years. Both are division records."
"Thailand's greatest boxer left the ring with a 49-1 (43) record and was acknowledged by many as the best, and most significant 115-pounder in history, as well as one of the greatest fighters from Asia."All but five of Galaxy's fights were in Thailand. The five were in Japan, Indonesia, The Netherlands Antilles and in South Korean.

At first glance that might cast suspicion on his record. But when one notices his KO rate and the fact that of his 19 defenses--all but three, in Thailand-- he disposed of his opponent before the final bell, except two, then he gets a very high billing for being among the greatest fighters Asia has ever produced, arguably the greatest.

The ones who went the distance in a title fight with Galaxy were:

Kenji Matsumura, twice, both fights held in Japan--one in Kobe, the other in Yokohama.

Armando Castro- in Thailand. It was Galaxy's last fight.

He lost only once and never in a title fight. His only loss was on his 7th outing, on points.

He didn't pad his record while holding the title. He faced fighters who were undefeated before they faced him. One of them, Israel Contreras, had racked up 24 consecutive wins, without a loss and a solitary draw.

He faced Filipino contender Fel Aporto who was 8-13, and KOd him in two, but that was just to keep in shape. Aporto and another Filipino, Val de Vera (3-6-0), were the only "bums" on Galaxy's list of victims. de Vera he faced early in his career.

The only problem anyone may have in naming Galaxy as the greatest Asian ever is that none of his adversaries are in the Hall of Fame.

Galaxy met a fellow champ, IBF's Elias Pical, and TKOd his opponent but Pical isn't miles of Canastota. On the other hand, the likes of Elorde had Sandy Saddler to whom he lost one after winning one in a two-fight series. The stoppage, resulting from a slight cut on Elorde's eyebrow in the second fight in San Francisco, was soundly booed (trash thrown into the ring as well). Elorde was leading on the cards and was obviously winning the fight. Elorde also had the likes of Ismael Laguna (who became Lightweight champ after losing to Elorde), Rene Barrientos (who became Jr. Light champ after Elorde)...

Elorde even had Victor Leon who administered a whipping on the great Willie Pep, knocking Pep down once in the 3rd, the 6th and the 8th before winning by UD, thus setting up the Elorde date. Of course Pep was to have only ten fights remaining in his ageing frame when he met Leon.

The Venezuelan, Leon, went the distance with Da Flash and only lost by UD. He didn't manage to win any belt, not even the Venezuelan national belt. But he faced and lost close ones to the likes of Jorgensen (also had a draw with Jorgensen in another fight)and Sugar Ramos.

grayfist
01-29-2006, 12:03 AM
I dont know if anyone already noted this but Pac is Pacific Islander so he cant be the best asian fighter ever.The Philippines is in SOUTHEAST ASIA. It's in the Asian rim of the Pacific Ocean. It's an archipelago of over seven thousand two hundred islands: the exact figure varies with the tide as there are uninhabited islands that are submerged by high tide. It is a founding member of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations or ASEAN, along with Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand. It also shares a basin of water with such Asian countries as China and Vietnam called The China Sea.

JOM'S
01-29-2006, 02:18 AM
The way pac dismantled erik last week, he has just made a giant leap towards getting the "Greatest Asian Fighter" title. beating the two great mexicans was a big feat for any ordinary fighter and manny did the job in a manner many thought was nearly impossible. his ring exploits and boxing record are also excellent which could well argue that he belongs to the elite especially of his generation.

However to wrestle that distinction from the Gabriel “Flash” Elorde who is considered by many to have that distinction, Pacquiao needs to stay on top of his game for a longer period of time. Elorde was an excellent boxer and slugger and he was both WBC and WBA Super Featherweight champion at the same time for 7 years. There is no question that Pacquiao has fought the best fighters on his way has beaten most of them. Manny has also shown all the qualities of a boxer worthy to be enshrined to the Boxing Hall of Fame.

I agree with you bro PAC is on the right track and he is fast catching up, I still consider "The Flash" as the greatest fighter from the Philippines and arguably the BEST ASIAN Fighter as acknowledge by IBHOF as 1 of the first 2 Asian Boxers to be enshrined in the Hall of Fame...

Chups
01-29-2006, 08:30 PM
Naseem Hamed......Nyahahahahahaha!!

LS-Injection
01-29-2006, 08:55 PM
Chups, was that just a random thing said or was it a answer to a question :confused: lol!

grayfist
01-29-2006, 09:19 PM
I agree with you bro PAC is on the right track and he is fast catching up, I still consider "The Flash" as the greatest fighter from the Philippines and arguably the BEST ASIAN Fighter as acknowledge by IBHOF as 1 of the first 2 Asian Boxers to be enshrined in the Hall of Fame...Gaining fast on Flash is a view I share, buddy. Pac even has an edge in some respects, one of them is that officially he has two division championships (conceding not to count Featherweight as no alphabet title was at stake in his fight with Barrera), while Flash, inspite of winning twice over Sandy Saddler in the eyes of everyone, didn't wrest the World Featherweight title (their second meeting was a title fight in San Francisco, while the first was a non-title tiff in Quezon City). Elorde who had a seven-year reign at Jr. Lightweight also failed in another bid for a second world title when he was taken out twice by Puerto Rican great, Carlos Ortiz.

Another point that should be considered in favor of Pac is that when both Erik and MAB ascend to immortality at Canastota, Pacquiao shall be able to stake claim on having resounding victories over two Hall of Famers, shoo-ins at that. And when one considers that the two are considered among the best five or ten Mexican fighters to ever put on boxing gloves, that says a lot.

But Pac never stayed long enough in any division for anyone to proclaim without fear of contradiction that he dominated a given weight (though, he could arguably have had, had he decided to stay a while at Jr. Feather or Feather). That, plus the fact that Pac has not (as yet) unified a weight division may be pointed to as a factor favoring Elorde.

To erase all doubts, Pac should beat MAB for the latter's two Jr. Lightweight belts (and that can only happen if MAB defends those against Pac) and then defeat Vicente Mosquera for the WBA belt and Barrios for the WBO version (or, whoever may be holding those two belts at the time). That should unify the division that Elorde himself was king of for so long and make Pac a three-division champion (four, counting the Featherweight "People's Championship"). If JMM gets tired of picking up 30 to 50 thousand dollar purses, Pac can defend the Jr. Light unified title against him and put to rest speculations. If Pac can fight at Jr. Light, JMM's physical attributes which are similar to Pac's shall enable him to go up in weight too.

To further solidify his bid for the "Best Asian Fighter in Western-style Boxing in History", he can go down in weight class and win a Featherweight alphabet title (vs. JMM?)That would mae him, officially, a four-division champ. And, then, he can go up to win a Lightweight title (again, vs. MAB?) to become a five-division champ.

If he manages to do all that, even future hopefuls for "Asia's Best Ever" shall think hundreds of times before trying to beat the record. And, worldwide, he'll be in a vast majority of the "Best P4P, Ever" short-list.