who do you guys like in this fight?

who do you guys like in this fight?

Hearns UD. Hearns would box and use the jab in this one to win a UD. The superior reach of Hearns would be a big factor.

Hearns UD. Hearns would box and use the jab in this one to win a UD. The superior reach of Hearns would be a big factor.

what happened to his jab vs iran barkley

what happened to his jab vs iran barkley

I dont know been a while since I have seen that fight. HE brought the wrong game plan I guess.

Toney by KO.

James is a masterfull boxer himself, but this fight would come down to chin. Toney has an iron one and Tommy has a glass one.

Hearns by KO. He's a level above Toney and would outbox him until he got frustrated and left himself open. Toney's chin's certainly no better than Duran's.

Hearns at 160 isn't nearly what he was at 154 and 147. He'd be winning on the cards by a round or two at the time of the stoppage. Toney is an extremely strong middleweight with a granite chin, Hearns didn't handle middleweight punches so well. Toney late KO.

Hearns by KO. He's a level above Toney and would outbox him until he got frustrated and left himself open. Toney's chin's certainly no better than Duran's.


Pure, unadulterated insanity.

I really can't see Hearns beating Toney, there's just no way I can see it.

Toney UD.

hearns by kayo in 1 or 2, your talking about one of the greatest fighters of all time here

hearns by kayo in 1 or 2, your talking about one of the greatest fighters of all time here
Hearns was never ranked as a lb4lb #1, whereas Toney was.

Hagler, Hearns and Leonard are horribly over-rated, they were all good fighters but there were fighters just as good who didn't get the same publiclity (eg Herol Graham, Mike McCallum, etc).

Hearns was never ranked as a lb4lb #1, whereas Toney was.

Hagler, Hearns and Leonard are horribly over-rated, they were all good fighters but there were fighters just as good who didn't get the same publiclity (eg Herol Graham, Mike McCallum, etc).


you're absolutely crazy, graham got kayo'd by jackson who would have been killed by hagler, hearns or leonard. lets see herol graham bomb out the great roberto duran like hearns did, McCallum was very good, true, but hagler may be the best middle of all time man, how can you say he is overrated?

you're absolutely crazy, graham got kayo'd by jackson who would have been killed by hagler, hearns or leonard. lets see herol graham bomb out the great roberto duran like hearns did, McCallum was very good, true, but hagler may be the best middle of all time man, how can you say he is overrated?
Herol was 6 years past his peak when he fought Jackson, and if you actually bother to watch the fight you'll see Herol absolutely dominate him - he was playing with him! There is no way that Hagler or Hearns or Leonard would of been able to play with Jackson like that. It's a well-known fact that Hagler/Hearns avoided Herol like the ****ing plague! McCallum was also avoided. The Graham-McCallum fight in 1989 was a higher standard than any Hagler/Hearns/Leonard publicity freak fights.

Herol was 6 years past his peak when he fought Jackson, and if you actually bother to watch the fight you'll see Herol absolutely dominate him - he was playing with him! There is no way that Hagler or Hearns or Leonard would of been able to play with Jackson like that. It's a well-known fact that Hagler/Hearns avoided Herol like the ****ing plague! McCallum was also avoided. The Graham-McCallum fight in 1989 was a higher standard than any Hagler/Hearns/Leonard publicity freak fights.
better than hagler-hearns? better then hearns-leonard 1? you are bias as hell. hearns and hagler would have knocked out jackson easily, very easily. you really think that graham would have beaten hagler? hagler knocked out 52 men in 62 victories, many world class opponents fell at his feet, graham would have too

better than hagler-hearns? better then hearns-leonard 1? you are bias as hell. hearns and hagler would have knocked out jackson easily, very easily. you really think that graham would have beaten hagler? hagler knocked out 52 men in 62 victories, many world class opponents fell at his feet, graham would have too
The 86 Graham beats the 86 Hagler 9 times in 10. Hagler really didn't beat any decent opposition with Hearns aside.

hearns by kayo in 1 or 2, your talking about one of the greatest fighters of all time here



That's ludicrous. Hearns power was nowhere near as devastating at 160 as it was at 154 or 147. Has only questionably been down twice (both were balance things) and he's never been legitimately hurt or wobbled for the greater part of the year (some said Sosa hurt him a bit in his 18th fight but I've never seen the fight). Toney has eaten complete bombs by heavy punchers and has shrugged them off like they were nothing.

There is no evidence to suggest that Hearns would KO him in 2 rounds let alone at all. If anyone is getting KO'd here it's Hearns.

The 86 Graham beats the 86 Hagler 9 times in 10. Hagler really didn't beat any decent opposition with Hearns aside.


Uh...

Cyclone Hart
Vito Antuofermo
Mustafa Hamsho x2
John Mugabi
Juan Domingo Roldan
Bad Benny Briscoe
Roberto Duran

Yes he did beat "decent" competition outside of Hearns.

The 86 Graham beats the 86 Hagler 9 times in 10. Hagler really didn't beat any decent opposition with Hearns aside.


you obviously don't know **** outside of the uk do you? hagler never beat any decent opponents? how about roberto duran? minter, antuofermo,sibson , hamsho, monroe, watts, he ruined a 25-0 with 25ko's mugabi in 86, mugabi in 86 would have knocked out graham. all those guys would have beat graham

Hearns UD. Hearns would box and use the jab in this one to win a UD. The superior reach of Hearns would be a big factor.

If toney could get around the jab and power of Jirov, Booker, Holy, And Ruiz, i really doubt that Hearns could affect him. Don't get me wrong i think Hearns was on the the best ever, i just doubt he could make it with Toney.

you obviously don't know **** outside of the uk do you? hagler never beat any decent opponents? how about roberto duran? minter, antuofermo,sibson , hamsho, monroe, watts, he ruined a 25-0 with 25ko's mugabi in 86, mugabi in 86 would have knocked out graham. all those guys would have beat graham
Oh yeah, Minter and Sibson were great weren't they :rolleyes: They even admit themselves that they weren't a patch on Graham and that Herol was avoided like the plague.

Oh yeah, Minter and Sibson were great weren't they :rolleyes: They even admit themselves that they weren't a patch on Graham and that Herol was avoided like the plague.


why so high on graham? he lost everytime he stepped up in competition. you think sumbu kalambay would have beaten hagler? thats a joke

why so high on graham? he lost everytime he stepped up in competition. you think sumbu kalambay would have beaten hagler? thats a joke
Graham had personal problems at the time, but won the re-match clearly only to be robbed on the scorecards in Kalambay's backyard. Fighting Kalambay wasn't 'stepping up' for Graham, it was actually supposed to be just a 'warm-up' for a World title fight. Nobody gave Kalambay a hope.

Graham had personal problems at the time, but won the re-match clearly only to be robbed on the scorecards in Kalambay's backyard. Fighting Kalambay wasn't 'stepping up' for Graham, it was actually supposed to be just a 'warm-up' for a World title fight. Nobody gave Kalambay a hope.


you know im beginning to wonder if YOU are Herol Graham? now you are making excuses about personal problems? warm up? **** he stepped to kalambay and got beat twice, he got beat by jackson, he lost to some bum grant, come on, hagler would have never lost to any of those guys regardless of situation, its that simple

you know im beginning to wonder if YOU are Herol Graham? now you are making excuses about personal problems? warm up? **** he stepped to kalambay and got beat twice, he got beat by jackson, he lost to some bum grant, come on, hagler would have never lost to any of those guys regardless of situation, its that simple
I'm not even going to bother replying to that, it's pointless. All I will say is that you don't know ****.

Hearns was never ranked as a lb4lb #1

You sure about that?

The P4P rankings that were listed in the summer of 1981 and featured in KO magazine (just a few months before the first Leonard/Hearns fight);

1. THOMAS HEARNS
2. Ray Leonard
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Larry Holmes
5. Alexis Arguello
6. Wilfredo Gomez
7. Eddie Mustafa Muhammad
8. Matthew Saad Muhammad
9. Wilfred Benitez
10. Roberto Duran

Apparently he was in fact ranked as a P4P #1 at one time.

The HITMAN is the best 147-154 fighter ever imo,and if he had Haglers chin he'd of been better than Sugar Ray Robinsion !!

But even i have to admit that Toney would get to him at 160-168 and nick a decision. JT was a excellent fighter back then he really was. JT W12. Sorry Tommy !

Actually, I disagree...you dont know ****. Hagler didnt fight any decent opposition? Yep, thats why he's considered by many as the greatest MW of all time...Look at his record then look at Grahams record, Graham fought bums and when he fought someone decent he lost. He was fighting guys in the middle and late of his career that had worser records than the bums on "the contender". He fought decent opponents, Mccallum, jackson and kalambay*2...guess what, he lost all of them. Dont even compare this man to Hagler..that is unless you are his cousin.

As for the thread, I give it to Hearns. Hearns can outbox him as RJJ did and possibly KO him. Hearns manage to hurt Hagler a bit so I dont see why he cant hurt Toney. He was fast and had very long reach, someone mentioned if Toney can get past Ruiz jab he should be able to get past Hearns...LOL! Hearns is about 10* faster..If Hearns go to war, he gets the same result as Hagler.

I dont know much about Graham so i cant say if Hagler was avoiding him but I did see Graham in two fights- Mccallum/jackson fights.I have to admit he looked very very good and equaled Mccallum at the least but i was lmao when Jackson pulled the trigger on his limey jaw :D that was a classic ko.

what happened to his jab vs iran barkley

Along with every other punch in his aresenol, Hearns' jab was working just fine for the first two and a half rounds, as he really did a number on Barkley in the early goings.

Have you seen that fight, my friend?

If not, it was pretty one-sided in Hearns' favour up until Barkley landed that hail-mary right hand that caught Hearns flush on the chin and put him down (Barkley added another right hand while Heran's was basically vertical to the canvas, but still in the midst of falling straight backwards). But up until that right hand which basically finished the fight, Hearns was raking Barkley with jabs, combinations, and some brutal left hooks downstairs. Barkley's face was a mess after only a couple of rounds, as he had some serious cuts and some swelling over both of his eyes, and he was also bleeding pretty bad from a cut inside his mouth. Barkley was taking such a bloody beating that Richard Steele had the doctor take a look a Barkley in between the second and third rounds, and the doc very nearly stopped the fight at that point.

Barkley then came out to begin round three after that with the intent on catching Hearns with something, because he basically needed to...they would've stopped it in Hearns' favour if Barkley's cuts got any worse. Hearns also had the idea of finishing off his opponent that was clearly in trouble, and after holding off his charging opponent, he again hurt Barkley with some combinations that had Iran rocking and reeling a bit. Hearns followed that up with some more combinations and some really punishing body shots (one sequence where he landed a double left hook to the ribs clearly hurt Barkley). It was shortly after being hurt by some body punches that forced Barkley to hang on when Barkley hit the jackpot and landed that devastating right hand to basically end the fight in favour.

Barkley deserves a ton a credit for the courage he showed and by standing in there long enough to land that shot on the weak chin of Hearns. But **** me, was he ever taking a beating up until that point.

hearns by kayo in 1 or 2, your talking about one of the greatest fighters of all time here

this is the most biased post..ahha hearns ko toney in 1 or 2 yeah right

Hearns was never ranked as a lb4lb #1, whereas Toney was.

Hagler, Hearns and Leonard are horribly over-rated, they were all good fighters but there were fighters just as good who didn't get the same publiclity (eg Herol Graham, Mike McCallum, etc).

i disagree they were all elite fighters but i dont see hearns beating toney

Along with every other punch in his aresenol, Hearns' jab was working just fine for the first two and a half rounds, as he really did a number on Barkley in the early goings.

Have you seen that fight, my friend?

If not, it was pretty one-sided in Hearns' favour up until Barkley landed that hail-mary right hand that caught Hearns flush on the chin and put him down (Barkley added another right hand while Heran's was basically vertical to the canvas, but still in the midst of falling straight backwards). But up until that right hand which basically finished the fight, Hearns was raking Barkley with jabs, combinations, and some brutal left hooks downstairs. Barkley's face was a mess after only a couple of rounds, as he had some serious cuts and some swelling over both of his eyes, and he was also bleeding pretty bad from a cut inside his mouth. Barkley was taking such a bloody beating that Richard Steele had the doctor take a look a Barkley in between the second and third rounds, and the doc very nearly stopped the fight at that point.

Barkley then came out to begin round three after that with the intent on catching Hearns with something, because he basically needed to...they would've stopped it in Hearns' favour if Barkley's cuts got any worse. Hearns also had the idea of finishing off his opponent that was clearly in trouble, and after holding off his charging opponent, he again hurt Barkley with some combinations that had Iran rocking and reeling a bit. Hearns followed that up with some more combinations and some really punishing body shots (one sequence where he landed a double left hook to the ribs clearly hurt Barkley). It was shortly after being hurt by some body punches that forced Barkley to hang on when Barkley hit the jackpot and landed that devastating right hand to basically end the fight in favour.

Barkley deserves a ton a credit for the courage he showed and by standing in there long enough to land that shot on the weak chin of Hearns. But **** me, was he ever taking a beating up until that point.


I actually did see it and i just saw it again today...I'm just saying a jab isnt going to just beat seomone like toney.. because mckay said that hearns would jus jab him and keep him a way..hearns was dominating the fight but the jab obviously didnt keep barkley away long enough. Barkley hit him with a right hook then took hearns out. I was only replying to mckays comment about hearns jab keeping toney away for 12 rounds

Pure, unadulterated insanity.

Not everyone rates Toney as highly as you do Gringo.

He's been outboxed by worse fighters than Hearns on more than one occasion and knocked on his ass by weaker punchers a couple of times. The guy's never dominated any division he's been in and was never globally recognised as p4p #1.

Hearns outclasses him.

Not everyone rates Toney as highly as you do Gringo.

He's been outboxed by worse fighters than Hearns on more than one occasion and knocked on his ass by weaker punchers a couple of times. The guy's never dominated any division he's been in and was never globally recognised as p4p #1.

Hearns outclasses him.


He was questionably down against Johnson and was "knocked down" against Roy Jones...but we all know what happened there. I don't think Hearns has the power at 160 to hurt Toney. Toney has an all-time great chin and one of the best of the last 20 or so years.

He's been outboxed by worse fighters true...but that was your unmotivated, lethargic version of James Toney. For fantasy fights we have to assume that both fighters are on top of their games right? And technically speaking, Toney was only once outboxed at 160 by p4p #1 guy at the time Michael Nunn, and we know what happened at the end of that fight. Toney ate every hard shot that Nunn hit him with (and Nunn hit him with the kitchen sink...those shots KOed guys like Roldan, Kalambay, and Curry) and kept on coming. I'm sorry, but I don't think Hearns was as special at 160 as you're making him out to be.

Actually James Toney has been a legitimate #1 p4p guy before and he has been at the top of his division for every weight he's fought at except 175 (otherwise known as the twilight zone of his career). He was top dog at 160, 168, 190, and could even be the top guy at HW if he ever fights and beats Klitschko.

Toney by mid-late TKO.

He was questionably down against Johnson and was "knocked down" against Roy Jones...but we all know what happened there. I don't think Hearns has the power at 160 to hurt Toney. Toney has an all-time great chin and one of the best of the last 20 or so years.

He's been outboxed by worse fighters true...but that was your unmotivated, lethargic version of James Toney. For fantasy fights we have to assume that both fighters are on top of their games right? And technically speaking, Toney was only once outboxed at 160 by p4p #1 guy at the time Michael Nunn, and we know what happened at the end of that fight. Toney ate every hard shot that Nunn hit him with (and Nunn hit him with the kitchen sink...those shots KOed guys like Roldan, Kalambay, and Curry) and kept on coming. I'm sorry, but I don't think Hearns was as special at 160 as you're making him out to be.

Actually James Toney has been a legitimate #1 p4p guy before and he has been at the top of his division for every weight he's fought at except 175 (otherwise known as the twilight zone of his career). He was top dog at 160, 168, 190, and could even be the top guy at HW if he ever fights and beats Klitschko.

Toney by mid-late TKO.

I was going to type the unmotivated/underprepared stuff for you because I new it was coming. So that **** flies on this board for Toney but not for Hamed?

What in your opinion made him #1 at any time in any division?
Getting lucky against Nunn or struggling against an ageing McCallum and Reggie Johnson? He never took on people like McLellan, Benn, Eubank, Mormeck or Nelson and never even attempted to unify the titles so calling him the #1 in any division is just presumption, so here's some more;

McLellan would have beaten him at 160. Eubank would have beaten him at 168 as RJJ did, although I think Benn could have struggled with his style. A prime Johnny Nelson would have had him in fits at 190.

If he ever did dominate at HW that would be a sad day for boxing, not a reason to celebrate Toney's greatness. He could never beat a prime genuine world class HW like Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe or Tyson.

Any decent fighter has a punchers chance with Hearns but 8/10 times Hearns would have him, even if MW wasn't his best weight. He didn't spend enough time at MW to judge him properly but he still looked pretty good at SMW and LHW.

Wow some strange post in this thread.

Saying Hagler never beat anyone good outside of Hearns might be the single dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum and yes that includes all of IwatchBoxing's post.

I was going to type the unmotivated/underprepared stuff for you because I new it was coming. So that **** flies on this board for Toney but not for Hamed?

What in your opinion made him #1 at any time in any division?
Getting lucky against Nunn or struggling against an ageing McCallum and Reggie Johnson? He never took on people like McLellan, Benn, Eubank, Mormeck or Nelson and never even attempted to unify the titles so calling him the #1 in any division is just presumption, so here's some more;

McLellan would have beat him at 160. Eubank would have beat him at 168 as RJJ did, although I think Benn could have struggled with his style. A prime Johnny Nelson would have had him in fits at 190.

If he ever did dominate at HW that would be the saddest day in boxing history, not a reason to celebrate Toney's greatness.

Any decent fighter has a punchers chance with Hearns but 8/10 times Hearns would have him, even if MW wasn't his best weight. He didn't spend enough time at MW to judge him properly but he still looked pretty good at SMW and LHW.

What do you mean what made him #1 in in any division at any time? Um...how about beating the best available to him? that a good enough answer for you.

Luck had nothing to do with it against Nunn. He trew a punch Nunn didn't see it and went to sleep. Is James suppossed to apolagize for that? You talk about his struggles against Nunn and McCallum, but at the tikme of those fights both Nunn and McCallum were regarded as top 10 p4p fighters by everyone.

as far as guys you say he never fought.

McLennan: Gerald suffered brain damage and had his acreer cut short thats not Toney's fault. Its also very well known state side that James Toney used to abuse Gerald McLellan in the gym when they were botch coming up in Detriot.

Eubank: Are you kidding me? Chris was a nice fighter but nowhere near the talent James Toney was. Maybe they didn't fight because Chris wouldn't step outside of Europe ever consider that? Saying Eubank would have beaten him like RJJ did is just plain stupid. RJJ beat Toney because he's one of the greatest talents in the history of the sprort something Eubank is not.

Mormeck: Wasn't even a blip on the radar when Toney was making noise at 190. Yes Mormeck looked great in beating a limeted Braiwaite, but dont forget before that he struggled badly with a 62 year old Virgil Hill.

Nelson: I asume you mean Jhonny Nelson? My god man you are a blind Euro nut hugger if you think Johnny Nelson could even **** with James Toney and that the truth.


The unmotivated **** flies because its the truth. How else do you explain a club fighter like Drake Thadzi beating a guy like James Toney?

What do you mean what made him #1 in in any division at any time? Um...how about beating the best available to him? that a good enough answer for you.

Luck had nothing to do with it against Nunn. He trew a punch Nunn didn't see it and went to sleep. Is James suppossed to apolagize for that? You talk about his struggles against Nunn and McCallum, but at the tikme of those fights both Nunn and McCallum were regarded as top 10 p4p fighters by everyone.

as far as guys you say he never fought.

McLennan: Gerald suffered brain damage and had his acreer cut short thats not Toney's fault. Its also very well known state side that James Toney used to abuse Gerald McLellan in the gym when they were botch coming up in Detriot.

Eubank: Are you kidding me? Chris was a nice fighter but nowhere near the talent James Toney was. Maybe they didn't fight because Chris wouldn't step outside of Europe ever consider that? Saying Eubank would have beaten him like RJJ did is just plain stupid. RJJ beat Toney because he's one of the greatest talents in the history of the sprort something Eubank is not.

Mormeck: Wasn't even a blip on the radar when Toney was making noise at 190. Yes Mormeck looked great in beating a limeted Braiwaite, but dont forget before that he struggled badly with a 62 year old Virgil Hill.

Nelson: I asume you mean Jhonny Nelson? My god man you are a blind Euro nut hugger if you think Johnny Nelson could even **** with James Toney and that the truth.


The unmotivated **** flies because its the truth. How else do you explain a club fighter like Drake Thadzi beating a guy like James Toney?

He beat one of the recognised champs, that's all. So no, your answer isn't good enough.

Nunn showed he was the better fighter but got caught out. He'd beat Toney more times than not. McCallum was still a very good fighter but past his best. It just served to show that Toney shouldn't even be held in as high esteem as McCallum at MW.

There was a bit of an experience gap when Toney was beating up on McLellan, if that was the case, wouldn't you agree? McLellan was one of the top up and coming guys at MW when Toney decided to move up. I'm pretty sure that had some influence on Toney's decision.

Eubank started his career in the US and won Golden Gloves titles with no real training. He also took tough fights in Germany and beat alot of the other great fighters at his weight. Eubank always found a way to win and was just too clever for Toney.

You must never have seen Nelson fight near his best, or you've got your head in your ass. He has a rediculous reach(which he knows how to use), good skills, speed and power, and a granite chin. He was good enough to draw with Carlos De Leon, and that was when he was young and unfocussed. Toney couldn't get near the mid to late 90's Nelson. It's just a style thing, not that I think Nelson's great.

Mormeck won his title when Toney was still at the weight, or just after it. Therefore he must have been "on the radar".

The unmotivated **** does fly a bit, just as it does with Hamed. Why else would he have struggled with Soto and Kelley amongst others before the MAB fight. My jibe was at the hipocracy.

I believe that Eubank had more talent than Toney, but Eubank always failed to press home his advantages and tried to get away with doing bare minimum. So Toney made the most of his talent. Eubank wanted to fight Toney in Las Vegas, but Toney refused. Eubank was in the top 10 lb4lb in 1994, Eubank and Toney were both undefeated in 40+ fights in 1994 and they were the top two in their division for years (ahead of Benn and Nunn) so they were on a collision course for bragging rights. Eubank was actually Toney's next opponent if he got by Roy Jones(Jones wasn't ranked in the top 10 lb4lb at the time by the way). Then, in 1996, Eubank was chasing a fight with Toney at LHW in Las Vegas but Toney avoided him (and Jones Jr avoided Eubank too).

hearns by decision.... i think he outboxes toney...

I believe that Eubank had more talent than Toney, but Eubank always failed to press home his advantages and tried to get away with doing bare minimum. So Toney made the most of his talent. Eubank wanted to fight Toney in Las Vegas, but Toney refused. Eubank was in the top 10 lb4lb in 1994, Eubank and Toney were both undefeated in 40+ fights in 1994 and they were the top two in their division for years (ahead of Benn and Nunn) so they were on a collision course for bragging rights. Eubank was actually Toney's next opponent if he got by Roy Jones(Jones wasn't ranked in the top 10 lb4lb at the time by the way). Then, in 1996, Eubank was chasing a fight with Toney at LHW in Las Vegas but Toney avoided him (and Jones Jr avoided Eubank too).

Eubank had more talent than Toney???

and NO Chris Eubank was NEVER top 10p4p.

Jesus Chrsit are you related to him or what?

At times, Eubank was the most fluid boxer you'll see.

And yes he was top 10 lb4lb before he lost.

At times, Eubank was the most fluid boxer you'll see.

And yes he was top 10 lb4lb before he lost.


Oh yeah im sure he was much more fluid than Roy Jones, Pernell Whitaker, James Toney or Floyd Mayweather.

and NO he was never top ten p4p I hate to break it to you, but in America we dont regard your fighters that highly especiall the one who dont leave Europe.

Hearns UD. Hearns would box and use the jab in this one to win a UD. The superior reach of Hearns would be a big factor.

McKay, must you keep posting pics of your face here? My computer monitor just cracked! LOL :D

He beat one of the recognised champs, that's all. So no, your answer isn't good enough.

Nunn showed he was the better fighter but got caught out. He'd beat Toney more times than not. McCallum was still a very good fighter but past his best. It just served to show that Toney shouldn't even be held in as high esteem as McCallum at MW.

There was a bit of an experience gap when Toney was beating up on McLellan, if that was the case, wouldn't you agree? McLellan was one of the top up and coming guys at MW when Toney decided to move up. I'm pretty sure that had some influence on Toney's decision.

Eubank started his career in the US and won Golden Gloves titles with no real training. He also took tough fights in Germany and beat alot of the other great fighters at his weight. Eubank always found a way to win and was just too clever for Toney.

You must never have seen Nelson fight near his best, or you've got your head in your ass. He has a rediculous reach(which he knows how to use), good skills, speed and power, and a granite chin. He was good enough to draw with Carlos De Leon, and that was when he was young and unfocussed. Toney couldn't get near the mid to late 90's Nelson. It's just a style thing, not that I think Nelson's great.

Mormeck won his title when Toney was still at the weight, or just after it. Therefore he must have been "on the radar".

The unmotivated **** does fly a bit, just as it does with Hamed. Why else would he have struggled with Soto and Kelley amongst others before the MAB fight. My jibe was at the hipocracy.


Yes Toney was a #1 p4p guy and he was at the top of the 160, 168, 190, and could be at the top of HW division at some point. He beat the best guys and best available guys at these weights, so yes he was the top dog there. Nunn, McCallum, Johnson, Sosa at 160...Barkley, Williams, Littles at 168...Jirov and McCallum at cruiser. Don't give me that "well he never fought Eubank and Benn and Collins" stuff because those guys wouldn't leave the UK if their lives depended on it.


The way you're speaking about the Toney/Nunn fight makes you sound like you've NEVER SEEN IT. Toney didn't just catch him with 1 lucky punch in the 11th round with his eyes closed or something. He started catching up to Nunn around the 8th round with more and more power shots upstairs and down. By the 9th round the momentum was on Toneys side. Toney hit Nunn with huge right hands and uppercuts in the 10th that hurt him and gave Toney a clear round. By the 11th Nunn was on his bike a bit and Toney hit him with a big right hand that set up that monsterous left hook that put him down the first time. This wasn't some lucky win like you are making it out to be. It was a superior fighter outlasting and KOing a p4p #1 guy. This "Nunn would beat him more often than not" business is BS.

I'm sorry, Eubank was a good fighter, but James at his best would have beaten Chris quite soundly. Eubank was nowhere near the skill or talent level of RJJ, and didn't have the style to beat someone like James. Toney at his best is only going to be beaten by a guy like Jones or someone with an iron chin who can uphold a menacing workrate for 12 rounds...Eubank is neither.

McClellan got punked by Toney in the gyms in Detroit and would have been KOed by him had they fought in the pros. McClellan was a big puncher sure, but he was very limited would have a lot of trouble with a guy who he couldn't hit cleanly. James would eat anything he threw at him and would knock him out late.

I'm sorry but I'm not going to reply to Johnny Nelson or Mormeck. Toney beat the cruiserweight KING in Vassiliy Jirov. An undefeated guy who was avoided like the plague and was a legitimate top 10 p4p guy. He dismantled him over 12 rounds and would have stopped him had the fight gone another round. Take that Mormeck and Nelson stuff elsewhere.

You can write a bunch of bull**** all you like, but your not fooling anybody. All I will say is that basically all of what you said is lies, lies, lies.. so we'll leave you in your own little world.

Also..
Benn and Eubank were the World Champions at 168 and the Super-stars of Super-Middleweight, Toney and Jones Jr never fought them.

Eubank was the most fluid boxer you'll ever see at times.


JUYJUY

You can write a bunch of bull**** all you like, but your not fooling anybody. All I will say is that basically all of what you said is lies, lies, lies.. so we'll leave you in your own little world.

Also..
Benn and Eubank were the World Champions at 168 and the Super-stars of Super-Middleweight, Toney and Jones Jr never fought them.

Eubank was the most fluid boxer you'll ever see at times.


JUYJUY

Oh riiight were the ones living in our own little world.

Please tell me again how Roy Jones and James Toney avoided EUBANK

hearns at 168 isnt the same hearns at 147..dont u idiots know that when ppl move up thru weights their not as dominate..other then the great ROY JONES JR 160-175...toney wins by tko

You can write a bunch of bull**** all you like, but your not fooling anybody.

Benn and Eubank were the World Champions at 168 and the Super-stars of Super-Middleweight, Toney and Jones Jr never fought them.

Eubank was the most fluid boxer you'll ever see at times.

JUYJUY


At least I can give UK boxers credit. You are the most biased UK nuthugging person on this site. At least Frank can debate without making rediculous claims like the bolded print.

Everything I've seen of Eubank (Watson II, Collins, Benn I) he was rather stiff and robotic. I like Eubank a lot, and he and Nigel Benn were great, but they definitely WERE NOT the "superstars" of 168. Maybe they were over there in England but they weren't here. Just calling them superstars makes you sound like you have a super hard-on when you talk about them.

At least I can give UK boxers credit. You are the most biased UK nuthugging person on this site. At least Frank can debate without making rediculous claims like the bolded print.

Everything I've seen of Eubank (Watson II, Collins, Benn I) he was rather stiff and robotic. I like Eubank a lot, and he and Nigel Benn were great, but they definitely WERE NOT the "superstars" of 168. Maybe they were over there in England but they weren't here. Just calling them superstars makes you sound like you have a super hard-on when you talk about them.
They obviously weren't the Superstars in America(because they were avoided) but they were the main Superstars of British boxing - ever.

Please tell me again how Roy Jones and James Toney avoided EUBANK
Eubank wanted to fight them in 1996 in Las Vegas at LHW, he did everything he could including ringing them up etc(Toney apparently said "it's too late now", and Jones Jr hung up on him!).

Eubank says he even rang up HBO and told them that he'd publicly bet $1,000,000 on KOing Jones Jr in the 1st-round! (so that it would sell well).

But Jones Jr didn't want nothing to do with Eubank, Toney neither.

They obviously weren't the Superstars in America(because they were avoided) but they were the main Superstars of British boxing - ever.


Well they were good fighters...and I've heard that Eubank is a good guy in real life...but it's sad that they were the biggest things in the history of UK boxing ever. Both of those guys would have lost to Jones and Toney.

Please give me the rundown of how Toney and Jones avoided those guys. Otherwise, stop saying they were avoided.

Oh and I'd like credible articles or something other than your mouth to verify.

but it's sad that they were the biggest things in the history of UK boxing ever.
Is this some kind of joke?

Check out this thread - http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36919

Check out this thread - http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36919


that juy juy character constantly makes rj hate threads and comes up with these lame excuses as to why rj didnt fight british fighters.

nigel benn had his chance but lost to thulane malinga(sp?)

eubank didnt give roy an oppurtunity when roy was on the come up, so why does roy jones have to give eubank a shot when eubank was clearly on the downside of his career?

collins is a joke that people with a british bias like to hype up. if roy jones were to fight and beat him they'd say the same thing they did when he beat down clinton woods, he fights nobodies


This is a post by The Fix that comes later on in the thread. I completely agree with it. Eubank never gave Roy a shot when he was younger, so why should Roy have given him a shot when everyone and their mothers wanted him and Eubanks career was declining?

Is this some kind of joke?



No it's not a joke.

Firstly, Clinton Woods is abit of a joke who Benn and Eubank would of beat up better than Roy Jones did.

Steve Collins was a boxer-puncher heading for journeyman status until he found a new lease of life after becoming World champ in 94, he switched from boxer into an all-out slugger - becoming a marauding warrior and a world-beater.

As for Benn and Eubank, they are the main men of British boxing and I don't see how that's sad?? They are the legends of British boxing. They were incredible, incredible guys.. we can't thank them enough for the memories that they gave us. The glory days of British boxing belonged to Benn and Eubank, there was nothing better than to sit down and watch them live at prime time on a Saturday on terrestrial TV with a few beers with your mates. They were extremely charismatic and all over the newspapers and TV shows every day. What they did was exceptional. They were the ORIGINATORS of true boxing arena entry and the reason that the sport is like it is in America today!

Firstly, Clinton Woods is abit of a joke who Benn and Eubank would of beat up better than Roy Jones did.

Steve Collins was a boxer-puncher heading for journeyman status until he found a new lease of life after becoming World champ in 94, he switched from boxer into an all-out slugger - becoming a marauding warrior and a world-beater.

As for Benn and Eubank, they are the main men of British boxing and I don't see how that's sad?? They are the legends of British boxing. They were incredible, incredible guys.. we can't thank them enough for the memories that they gave us. The glory days of British boxing belonged to Benn and Eubank, there was nothing better than to sit down and watch them live at prime time on a Saturday on terrestrial TV with a few beers with your mates. They were extremely charismatic and all over the newspapers and TV shows every day. What they did was exceptional. They were the ORIGINATORS of true boxing arena entry and the reason that the sport is like it is in America today!


Collins a world beater? hahaha you've got jokes thats funny man. The only reason that Collins is even heard of is because he beat YOUR BOYS when they were already well past their best...and mind you both Eubank decisions were razor thin. Collins was a joke and lost his 3 biggest fights in his young prime. He was outpointed by a worn out Kalambay...thats pretty ****ing sad.

I'm sure that Eubank and Benn were great thrills for you to watch, but they weren't gods, and they have had no effect on American boxing whatsoever. This is getting funnier and funnier by the minute.

Collins a world beater? hahaha you've got jokes thats funny man. The only reason that Collins is even heard of is because he beat YOUR BOYS when they were already well past their best...and mind you both Eubank decisions were razor thin. Collins was a joke and lost his 3 biggest fights in his young prime. He was outpointed by a worn out Kalambay...thats pretty ****ing sad.

I'm sure that Eubank and Benn were great thrills for you to watch, but they weren't gods, and they have had no effect on American boxing whatsoever. This is getting funnier and funnier by the minute.
Collins was so avoided in the mid-to-late 90's he really was, he peaked under Freddie Roach you idiot. Michalczewski, Liles, Jones Jr.. none of the would fight the 'new' Collins.

Way back in 1989, the undefeated Collins suffered stage fright against McCallum for the World title.. but then after he warmed up and left the nerves behind halfway through the fight he started putting some good punches together and causing McCallum no end of problems! McCallum quickly let it be known after the fight that no ammount of money would prize him back into a ring with Collins again!

Collins was robbed against Kalambay in Italy, just like Herol Graham was robbed against Kalambay in Italy around the same time, it was Kalambay's backyard and he was gifted a scandalous decision over Collins. Collins was also clearly robbed against Reggie Johnson in Johnson's backyard of America, but not as badly as he was against Kalambay. And this was Collins nowhere near his best, his best came years later.

Good big man beats good little man, Toney by KO. Just like he did Nunn and Barkley.

and they have had no effect on American boxing whatsoever.
Yes they did. They were the ORIGINATORS of true boxing arena entry, Naseem Hamed copied them and took it to America and look at how boxing has become..

Collins was so avoided in the mid-to-late 90's he really was, he peaked under Freddie Roach you idiot. Michalczewski, Liles, Jones Jr.. none of the would fight the 'new' Collins.

Way back in 1989, the undefeated Collins suffered stage fright against McCallum for the World title.. but then after he warmed up and left the nerves behind halfway through the fight he started putting some good punches together and causing McCallum no end of problems! McCallum quickly let it be known after the fight that no ammount of money would prize him back into a ring with Collins again!

Collins was robbed against Kalambay in Italy, just like Herol Graham was robbed against Kalambay in Italy around the same time, it was Kalambay's backyard and he was gifted a scandalous decision over Collins. Collins was also clearly robbed against Reggie Johnson in Johnson's backyard of America, but not as badly as he was against Kalambay. And this was Collins nowhere near his best, his best came years later.



You're a joke. You make ***** excuses for every single loss on Collins record. The facts are that he lost his 2 biggest fights in America and that he was outpointed by a shot Kalambay in his young prime. He had 23 fights under his belt when he lost to Kalambay...that **** is pathetic.

Steve Collins was extremely average and would have been destroyed by Jones or Toney at any point in his career. Don't make it seem like McCallum was afraid to get back in the ring with Collins either because he would have soundly beaten him like he did the first time.

You're a joke. You make ***** excuses for every single loss on Collins record. The facts are that he lost his 2 biggest fights in America and that he was outpointed by a shot Kalambay in his young prime. He had 23 fights under his belt when he lost to Kalambay...that **** is pathetic.

Steve Collins was extremely average and would have been destroyed by Jones or Toney at any point in his career. Don't make it seem like McCallum was afraid to get back in the ring with Collins either because he would have soundly beaten him like he did the first time.
Collins' biggest fights by far were against Benn and Eubank. You IDIOT :rolleyes:

Collins' biggest fights by far were against Benn and Eubank. You IDIOT :rolleyes:

Benn and Eubank were WAY past it by the time he beat them.

Benn and Eubank were WAY past it by the time he beat them.
Eubank wasn't. But Benn was.

Yes Eubank held back on him and wasn't mentally right, but it was a huge upset and finally gave Collins the recognision he'd always craved. He was the first man to beat Eubank and became the most popular Irishman in Britain (Eubank was so hated and everybody had been so desperate to see him knocked off his perch since 1988).

Collins' biggest fights by far were against Benn and Eubank. You IDIOT :rolleyes:



Benn was shot and Eubank was shot and gun shy. He beat Benn in his last two professional fights after he had gone through hell with McClellan, Eubank x2, Kalambay, Watson...and he beat Eubank after he had gone through hell with Benn x2, Close x2, Watson x2.

Eubank wasn't the same fighter after what he did to Watson...and Collins STILL only managed to pull razor thin decisions against him. Collins was a complete joke.

Eubank wasn't. But Benn was.

Yes Eubank held back on him and wasn't mentally right, but it was a huge upset and finally gave Collins the recognision he'd always craved. He was the first man to beat Eubank and became the most popular Irishman in Britain (Eubank was so hated and everybody had been so desperate to see him knocked off his perch since 1988).



Yes actually Eubank WAS way past his best. Go get a clue...you should know this stuff since you are so attached to these guys.

Sorry but Eubank wasn't past his best, he was coming off a first-class display against Wharton. But Eubank clearly wasn't at his best in that particular fight against Collins, because Collins had got into his head before the fight and played mind games. After the Collins fight, Eubank scored a couple of 1st-round KO's and made it look damn easy, I don't think he was even hit in those couple of fights and they were good displays - so people felt that he was back to his best for the Collins re-match. But unfortunately Eubank was abit erratic if I remember in the Collins re-match in going at Collins with anger - NOT Eubank's style. He hated Collins, and it showed in that re-match - which is why he lost (it just wasn't Eubank!). But you have to hand it to Stevie for dealing with him - I wouldn't like Eubank coming at me ;)

The McCallum and Johnson World title fights in America only gave Stevie a couple of thousand dollars with no media exposure. But the Eubank re-match and the two Benn fights gave Stevie millions upon millions and tonnes of media exposure!

Sorry but Eubank wasn't past his best, he was coming off a first-class display against Wharton. But Eubank clearly wasn't at his best in that particular fight against Collins, because Collins had got into his head before the fight and played mind games. After the Collins fight, Eubank scored a couple of 1st-round KO's and made it look damn easy, I don't think he was even hit in those couple of fights and they were good displays - so people felt that he was back to his best for the Collins re-match. But unfortunately Eubank was abit erratic if I remember in the Collins re-match in going at Collins with anger - NOT Eubank's style. He hated Collins, and it showed in that re-match - which is why he lost (it just wasn't Eubank!). But you have to hand it to Stevie for dealing with him - I wouldn't like Eubank coming at me ;)

The McCallum and Johnson World title fights in America only gave Stevie a couple of thousand dollars with no media exposure. But the Eubank re-match and the two Benn fights gave Stevie millions upon millions and tonnes of media exposure!


Funniest post I've read all week...thanks.

First class win over Wharton? What the **** did Wharton ever do or prove to be considered a good win? Stop naming off **** UK fighters and trying to pass them off as good wins.

Eubank KOed two no name garbagemen who had no business being in the ring in the first place. He was well past his best for those fights with Collins and anyone with half a brain would tell you that.

Funniest post I've read all week...thanks.

First class win over Wharton? What the **** did Wharton ever do or prove to be considered a good win? Stop naming off **** UK fighters and trying to pass them off as good wins.

Eubank KOed two no name garbagemen who had no business being in the ring in the first place. He was well past his best for those fights with Collins and anyone with half a brain would tell you that.
Henry Wharton was a world-class fighter, he was brilliant. Despite being the World Champions, Benn and Eubank were actually the UNDERDOGS against Wharton. It took Benn and Eubank at their absolute peak in 1994 to tame Wharton, because we all expected Henry to go and become a great. Benn and Eubank feared him, and that's what brought the best out of them against him. He was a powerful left-hooking brawler with a chin of steel, he remains the only person to ever win the ABA's four years in a row and remains the only person to ever win the ABA's with straight KO's. He knocked out Joe Calzaghe in the gym - with headgear!

Wharton peaked in 1995-96, he bashed up Galvano(former WBC champion) and Nardiello(future WBC champio) in their backyards of Italy. He was WBC mandatory in 1993, 1994, 1996 and 1997 but by the time that he got his final shot at the WBC title he hadn't been in the ring for a year and only had 4 weeks to get into shape for Robin Reid in 1997 - one judge scored it even. If that fight had taken place a year earlier, Reid wouldn't of stood a chance in hell. Wharton was then forced to retire due to brain and skull problems - a crying shame.

It was an unbelievable era for British Middleweight's at the time - Graham, Benn, Eubank, Watson, Wharton, Collins, Reid, Calzaghe - all world-class operators - incredible depth!

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,6903,1010013,00.html

We expected it to be third time lucky for Wharton when he got his next shot at the World title, he went the distance with Benn and Eubank at their best, but he froze against Benn and Eubank was brilliant that night. But Wharton had improved his skills even further now and was ready to rule in 1995-96. He was actually about to retire before the Reid fight because his WBC title shot didn't come around quick enough and ****ing Frank Warren wouldn't allow him any warm-up fights :mad:

I would rate Henry Wharton above Collins, Calzaghe and Reid personally - I thought he was very good in 1995 and 1996. If he would of had his WBC shot in 1996, of if he was kept more busy in 1997, he would of ruled as World Champion for years. Even in 1994 I would say that he'd of beaten any other British or European Middle/SuperMiddle ever aside from a peak Benn and a peak Eubank.

If you want to see a horrific one-sided beatdown, check out Wharton's win over the granite-chinned Frenchman Stephen Nizard(who was robbed against both Nicky Piper and Sven Ottke), Wharton won every round easily and why the ref didn't stop the fight I'll never know - Wharton almost killed the guy. Or maybe you should check out the frighteningly dominant display against the durable Ricky Thornberry (who went the distance with Calzaghe and Ottke and made life difficult for them), the Leeds left-hooker Wharton pounded him to the canvas six times in three rounds (twice in round three, once in round four, three times in round five).

I would rate Henry Wharton above Collins, Calzaghe and Reid personally - I thought he was very good in 1995 and 1996. If he would of had his WBC shot in 1996, of if he was kept more busy in 1997, he would of ruled as World Champion for years. Even in 1994 I would say that he'd of beaten any other British or European Middle/SuperMiddle ever aside from a peak Benn and a peak Eubank.

If you want to see a horrific one-sided beatdown, check out Wharton's win over the granite-chinned Frenchman Stephen Nizard(who was robbed against both Nicky Piper and Sven Ottke), Wharton won every round easily and why the ref didn't stop the fight I'll never know - Wharton almost killed the guy. Or maybe you should check out the frighteningly dominant display against the durable Ricky Thornberry (who went the distance with Calzaghe and Ottke and made life difficult for them), the Leeds left-hooker Wharton pounded him to the canvas six times in three rounds (twice in round three, once in round four, three times in round five).


I'll be sure to keep an eye out for it on www.bumfights.com

I'll be sure to keep an eye out for it on www.bumfights.com
If your calling a world-class boxer a bum, then what does that make you?

If your calling a world-class boxer a bum, then what does that make you?


Your calling bums world class fighter what does that make you?

seriously, just stop watching boxing.

ABA Champion's

178lb division
1985 - Henry Wharton
1986 - Henry Wharton
1987 - Henry Wharton
1988 - Henry Wharton

Your calling bums world class fighter what does that make you?

seriously, just stop watching boxing.
I think you need to be banned personally. Your posts are disgraceful and full of lies. Sorry but I think you need to be banned from here. But you won't be banned because your American. You should be ashamed of yourself buddy, I hope your not fooling anyone with your Brit-hating bull****.

ABA Champion's

178lb division
1985 - Henry Wharton
1986 - Henry Wharton
1987 - Henry Wharton
1988 - Henry Wharton



You're a joke...Wharton beat no one worth mentioning in his career and is a C level fighter.

I think you need to be banned personally. Your posts are disgraceful and full of lies. Sorry but I think you need to be banned from here. But you won't be banned because your American. You should be ashamed of yourself buddy, I hope your not fooling anyone with your Brit-hating bull****.


ahahhaha

god your a tool

You're a joke...Wharton beat no one worth mentioning in his career and is a C level fighter.
I just can't believe what I'm reading. What is your problem??

I just can't believe what I'm reading. What is your problem??


Hey can you tell me again how Roy Jones and James Toney avoided Chris Eubank.

ahahhaha

god your a tool
The ammount of Brit-hating lies in this thread is beyond a joke. I don't know what your problem is, I really don't understand American's and why they are so disrespectful, bullying and bull****ting.

Hey can you tell me again how Roy Jones and James Toney avoided Chris Eubank.
Ask them yourself. I'm done with this thread.

Keep digging that grave deeper juyjuy. You make possibly the weakest points of any poster I've ever come across on this site.

Keep digging that grave deeper juyjuy. You make possibly the weakest points of any poster I've ever come across on this site.
I tell the truth, and if you can't handle the truth then I suggest you leave the forum. Nobody likes a liar and a hater.

Keep digging that grave deeper juyjuy. You make possibly the weakest points of any poster I've ever come across on this site.


I mean really now.

http://www.antekprizering.com/bennwhartonpresskit.jpeg










And Eubank-Wharton was an even bigger fight (and most people genuinely expected Eubank to be dethroned - due to Wharton being that good.. not many had given Benn a chance against Wharton but Wharton suffered stage-fright against Benn because it was his first World title fight..), and a very good fight too where Eubank proved that he was a true champion against an in-form Wharton with a top display. A good example of championship boxing in my opinion.

Eubank-Wharton pics: http://www.chriseubank.tv/boxingphotogallery.htm

James sits on his face and lays a big duce on his upper lip.

The way you're speaking about the Toney/Nunn fight makes you sound like you've NEVER SEEN IT. Toney didn't just catch him with 1 lucky punch in the 11th round with his eyes closed or something. He started catching up to Nunn around the 8th round with more and more power shots upstairs and down. By the 9th round the momentum was on Toneys side. Toney hit Nunn with huge right hands and uppercuts in the 10th that hurt him and gave Toney a clear round. By the 11th Nunn was on his bike a bit and Toney hit him with a big right hand that set up that monsterous left hook that put him down the first time. This wasn't some lucky win like you are making it out to be. It was a superior fighter outlasting and KOing a p4p #1 guy. This "Nunn would beat him more often than not" business is BS.



I've seen the fight a couple of times thanks, although not for a few years. Nunn landed a hell of alot punches (over 400 if I remember correctly) on Toney and IMO spent himself early, with a couple of shots adding to it. I give credit to Toney for weathering it and coming on strong at the end but I think that if Nunn had paced himself better he could have seen it out. You don't seem to give any consideration to the first 8 rounds where as I see it as Toney not being good enough to do anything about Nunn until he tired.

The rest of it we'll never agree on. You seem to think Toney hits harder than Jackson and Benn if he'd ko G-man and I don't really know how to respond to that.

I've seen the fight a couple of times thanks, although not for a few years. Nunn landed a hell of alot punches (over 400 if I remember correctly) on Toney and IMO spent himself early, with a couple of shots adding to it. I give credit to Toney for weathering it and coming on strong at the end but I think that if Nunn had paced himself better he could have seen it out. You don't seem to give any consideration to the first 8 rounds where as I see it as Toney not being good enough to do anything about Nunn until he tired.

The rest of it we'll never agree on. You seem to think Toney hits harder than Jackson and Benn if he'd ko G-man and I don't really know how to respond to that.



You're right about Nunn hitting James a lot and pretty much dominating the first 8 rounds. Theres no doubts that Nunn was outboxing him and laying a beating on him. What I like to emphasize though (and its responding the section in bold) is that Toney ate all of those hard power shots from the p4p #1 guy at the time when many of those shots would have knocked out lesser fighters. Nunn KOed guys like Roldan, Kalambay, and Curry with some of those shots that he hit Toney with, but Toney took them and kept coming. I think that was the impressive feat. Truthfully, Nunn fought almost the perfect fight and I think he fought the type of fight that he was looking for. He just wasn't expecting that Toney would stand up to such a barrage of punches, and he wasn't expecting that he'd have that much left in the tank later in the fight. :dunno:

I don't think that Toney necessarily hits harder than Benn and Jackson...because he doesn't. However, I think he is a much more skilled fighter who throws crsiper more accurate shots. I just think he'd make McClellan pay later in the fight and would wear him down. Toney was always pretty economical with his punches.

You're right about Nunn hitting James a lot and pretty much dominating the first 8 rounds. Theres no doubts that Nunn was outboxing him and laying a beating on him. What I like to emphasize though (and its responding the section in bold) is that Toney ate all of those hard power shots from the p4p #1 guy at the time when many of those shots would have knocked out lesser fighters. Nunn KOed guys like Roldan, Kalambay, and Curry with some of those shots that he hit Toney with, but Toney took them and kept coming. I think that was the impressive feat. Truthfully, Nunn fought almost the perfect fight and I think he fought the type of fight that he was looking for. He just wasn't expecting that Toney would stand up to such a barrage of punches, and he wasn't expecting that he'd have that much left in the tank later in the fight. :dunno:

I don't think that Toney necessarily hits harder than Benn and Jackson...because he doesn't. However, I think he is a much more skilled fighter who throws crsiper more accurate shots. I just think he'd make McClellan pay later in the fight and would wear him down. Toney was always pretty economical with his punches.

I agree with that and I shouldn't really have tried to underplay Toney's chin, but I do think that Hearns could ko just about anyone if given the chance and he definitely had the skills to work some openings. My original post was a bit simplistic.

I think McLellan had a terrific chin too and I also think that his offensive skills were at least on a par with Toney's. That coupled with his superior power would make me give McLellan the nod over 12 in a very close fight.

I see a Hearns KO. Jones had Toney in serious trouble near the end of their bout and i can't believe peeps are saying Hearn's power at 160 is under question. He pole axed Schuler and took out decent chinned Roldan in a big way. God he stunned Hagler! Roy Jones schooled toney and it would be silly to say Hearns couldn't. I think Hearns would sort out a lot of the latter highly regarded boxers such as Tito, Toney, Hopkins etc.

Hearns by KO. He's a level above Toney and would outbox him until he got frustrated and left himself open. Toney's chin's certainly no better than Duran's.Are you on crack! Toney's chin is 10 times better the Duran, Toney has never been hurt in his life, he's been down twice, but none of those knock downs were legit.