View Full Version : James Tillis says Tyson hit harder than Shavers


Benny Leonard
05-09-2010, 09:15 AM
It's interesting hearing how an opponent can face Fighter-A and say Fighter-B hit harder...then have another fighter that faced those same two fighters and say Fighter A hit harder than Fighter B.

Of course in this case, and even though Power is said to be the last thing to go, Shavers was around 36/37 ???...but Tyson was still only 19 so he still had room to grow in the strength/power department as well. Not sure how that works.



Article:



The 19-year-old man-child snorted in disgust and stepped back to compose himself. This was an unusual move for young Mike Tyson. Until Saturday's fight with James (Quick) Tillis at the Glens Falls ( N.Y.) Civic Center, he had rarely taken a backward step in a boxing ring. Clearly, Tyson was nonplussed. He had moved up in fighting class, and it showed.

Tillis had befuddled Tyson by absorbing or tying up his insistent hammers for the better part of four rounds, and this moment of indecision appeared to offer Tillis his best chance to shake up the boxing world. "Now," thought Tillis. "Now's the time." He threw caution and balance to the wind and launched his best left hook, intending to circle Tyson's peek-a-boo defense. The hook missed. Tyson, presented at last with an unprotected target, fired a short left hook. It was not his best punch***8212;not by a long shot***8212;but it landed cleanly on Tillis's jaw.

Tillis's eyes rolled back as he went sprawling to the canvas with 13 seconds left in Round 4. Tillis was grateful for the bell. Once his head stopped ringing, he would get back where he belonged. He would show this ferocious kid how one survives in the ring. Let somebody else suffer the consequences of trading haymakers with Mike Tyson. "I've heard of baby-sitting," Tillis said later, "but this is ridiculous."

"It's tough to hit shadows," Tillis's manager, Beau Williford, had said just before the fight, and with that knockdown as a warning, Tillis went back to ducking Tyson's bombs while occasionally punching out smart combinations. At times Tillis made Tyson look awkward, but mainly Quick merely survived. The battered and bloodied Tillis lost in a 10-round unanimous decision, though he became the first fighter to go the distance with the man-child. That accomplishment just might be worth an asterisk one day.

Such is life for Tyson, who of late can't seem to win for winning. "He punches harder than Earnie Shavers," Tillis said as Tyson came into the interview room after the fight. "Boy, you punch harder than...."

Tyson received the compliment with a knitted brow. He was not in a particularly good mood, though he had just won his 20th-straight pro fight and had handled his 28-year-old opponent with relative ease. And he was still just 19 years old. The trouble with being Mike Tyson is that you can't become heavyweight champion soon enough to suit the world. The world takes one look at your sculpted 215 pounds, your ominous glower, your wrecking-ball punches and says, "That's my champion." It reads wondrous things about you in Rolling Stone and Advertising Age and thinks, "Well, come on now." But Tyson isn't the champ. Not yet.

"Some people want to rush Mike," says Jimmy Jacobs, his co-manager. "The object isn't for him to fight for the heavyweight championship. The object is for him to win the heavyweight championship." So everybody, including Tyson, will have to keep his shirt on for a while. That may be harder for Tyson than for anyone else.

After he had won his previous fight, a third-round knockout of a tomato can named Steve Zouski in Uniondale, N.Y. on March 10, he felt he had to apologize for not dispatching Zouski in a more expeditious fashion. "I'm having personal problems," Tyson said. He is still very much a 19-year-old. As such, he yearns quite understandably for the joys of youth, joys that are usually denied a working heavyweight contender. "Girlfriend problems" is co-manager Bill Cay-ton's succinct diagnosis.

It seems that Tyson sometimes goes a little stir-crazy up in the Catskills, with nobody but trainer Kevin Rooney, "stepmother" Camille Ewald, a few pet pigeons and some sparring partners to keep him company. "I was running around looking for girls," Tyson says. "Girls were looking real good to me. :pat: But I had to decide, did I want to hang out at night, did I want to be a playboy?

"I decided I didn't."

Benny Leonard
05-09-2010, 09:16 AM
The best way to keep a man-child out of trouble is to keep him busy. But while training for the Zouski fight, Tyson suffered an injury to cartilage in his right ear when he fell trying to capture a rogue pigeon for his coop. After the fight his ear swelled to more than twice its normal size, and he was treated at Mount Sinai hospital in New York City. The injury caused the Tillis fight to be postponed from March 29 until last Saturday. Tyson went home again, but with a little time to kill while the ear healed, he headed back to New York without Rooney's knowledge. Rooney was frantic, though Cayton says Tyson went to New York to see his doctor and to visit his sister, who lives in Brooklyn, and that both he and Jacobs knew of the trip and Tyson's whereabouts.

An incident that occurred in March at the Crossgates Mall near Albany was not, alas, so easily explained. Tyson and a pal were asked to leave a clothing store after somebody—not Tyson—threw around some sweaters as well as some bad language. Later, Tyson was the one who read his name in the papers. Signs of trouble?

Not likely. Tyson may have spent time in reform school and may still have his coltish moments, but he seems genuinely anxious to reach out for maturity. He often speaks of becoming rich. He knows you can't do that while you are out on bail. He is deferential to his handlers and courteous to the media, "and he has never asked us when he is fighting for the title," says Jacobs. "He's just having to grow up in the spotlight—no easy job."

Tyson took out his frustrations on sparring partners before the Tillis fight. First, he hit Charlie Smith with what Rooney describes as "the perfect upper-cut," loosening four of Smith's lower teeth. Rooney gave Smith money to visit the dentist and sent him packing. Then 6'5" Wes Smith was knocked down by Tyson on each of his first two days on the job. "I told Mike to stop hittin' him after a while," Rooney says. "I ain't no butcher." A third sparring partner, Lamories Adams, foolishly looking to mix it up, was knocked silly. Tyson wore 18-ounce gloves during those sessions. Even veritable pillows can't muffle the kid's dynamite.

" Leon Spinks was destroyed by the heavyweight title," says Cayton. "When Mike matures, he can revel in it the way Ali or Joe Frazier reveled in it. Right now, he's just a kid."

The Tillis fight demonstrated that Tyson needs to mature inside the ring as well—not surprising when you consider he has had less than 111 minutes of ring experience as a pro. "This fight was perfect for Mike," said Jacobs. "Each fighter will take him up in class, in a different way. Each fighter will pose a different problem for him to solve, the way he solved Tillis today."

Tyson has signed for six bouts between now and next January. He has a three-fight contract with HBO and three fights remaining in his five-fight pact with ABC. He meets Mitchell Green, the WBC's No. 7 contender, on May 20 for HBO, and on June 13 he fights spoiler Reggie Gross. There is no question that Tyson will be busy.

"Sooner or later," said heavyweight James Broad before the fight, "somebody has to try hitting Mike on the chin." So Tillis tried it. His best rights bounced harmlessly off Tyson's jaw. Tyson's arms are powerful, but they are short. His approach to the inside, to maximum effective range, needs work. Tillis tied up Tyson's cudgels whenever he felt pressured. Rooney exhorted Tyson to use the jab more, but Tillis was too proficient in the jab-and-grab technique. Although Tyson landed heavy shots in nearly every round, he rarely put two or three together. "I was looking for the one shot to hurt him," he said.

Tyson may still be a bit green but, as Tillis discovered on Saturday, he's growing with every fight. "Tillis ran, just like we knew that he would. And anybody can look good running," said Tyson. "But nobody will beat me by running. Nobody."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1064811/2/index.htm

GoogleMe
05-09-2010, 10:26 AM
Good interview. But I can't say who hits harder from the article. Though I'd by far, give Shavers the edge.

TheGreatA
05-09-2010, 10:34 AM
He also said in his book that Shavers was the hardest hitter he ever faced.

Benny Leonard
05-09-2010, 10:40 AM
He also said in his book that Shavers was the hardest hitter he ever faced.

Maybe Tyson's punch was just fresh in his mind. Book is a review of memory.


Good to know though.

I've always thought Shavers as the hardest single puncher as far as what I've watched on tape but of course that is just my opinion so I leave it to Fighters.

If I'm not mistaken, Ali and Lyle said Shavers hit them the hardest. That's on video on youtube. As well as Holmes?


Ron Lyle's opinion:

4:20

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Ali:

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geribeetus
05-09-2010, 02:21 PM
their punching styles were so much different it's hard to say whose punches really hurt the most

tyson's clearly had more snap and were more likely to catch you when you weren't looking. he had the speed to go with his power that could lift a man off his feet. but shavers' punches seemed to completely debilitate his opponent. people fell when he hit them and they usually didn't even want to try to get back up. they didn't just daze you, they broke your will.

whoever had more power isn't really something you can prove, and they were both 210-220 pound guys. really it's not physically possible for one to have *that* much more power. i never got why people exaggerate power so much for some people. they'll talk about someone having twice as much power as another guy. this isn't a video game, that's just not how human anatomy works.

NChristo
05-09-2010, 02:28 PM
As well as Holmes?


Yup Holmes said Shavers hit harder too and he fought both of them aswell.

them_apples
05-09-2010, 02:36 PM
their punching styles were so much different it's hard to say whose punches really hurt the most

tyson's clearly had more snap and were more likely to catch you when you weren't looking. he had the speed to go with his power that could lift a man off his feet. but shavers' punches seemed to completely debilitate his opponent. people fell when he hit them and they usually didn't even want to try to get back up. they didn't just daze you, they broke your will.

whoever had more power isn't really something you can prove, and they were both 210-220 pound guys. really it's not physically possible for one to have *that* much more power. i never got why people exaggerate power so much for some people. they'll talk about someone having twice as much power as another guy. this isn't a video game, that's just not how human anatomy works.

yea punching power at that level is usually a technical thing or someone that is just good at catching people (a KO artist).

Ali and George weighed similar but Foreman was clearly the stronger and harder puncher. Why? Most of it was because George would throw hooks from his hips to get maximum leverage. (and to be fair, he was a physically stronger guy). Ali never really got much behind his punches and preferred to keep it fundamental.

Tyson looked devastating because he was catching guys on the chin when they didn't see it coming. He was very quick. He was also 218 lbs and cut. He knew how to get the most out of his punches. When he hit someone at the angles he did, most would go down.

Put Foremans power on Tysons body, and you would see even more knock outs. Imagine slipping under an opponents hook and coming up with a Foreman uppercut? sheesh

BrooklynBomber
05-09-2010, 02:55 PM
the perception of the punch by the recieving party also depends on the fight itself. I remember Jesse James Leija, when asked who in his opinion was a harder puncher, Gatti or Tszyu, thought that Gatti was the much harder puncher. But upon the review of both fights you could conclude that Tszyu never actually had the chance to unleash his full power potential on Leija whereas Gatti hit him with a couple of home run punches.

Stallone60
05-09-2010, 03:11 PM
Tyson hits harder than any heavyweight i have ever seen. Im his prime he was a machine.

Jim Jeffries
05-09-2010, 03:42 PM
Yup Holmes said Shavers hit harder too and he fought both of them aswell.

I was just going to ask what Holmes' opinion was.

Tyson's speed, accuracy and combinations as well as the ability to be more aggressive because he had a much better chin, made him the superior overall puncher. But it's certainly possibly that Shavers possessed more one punch power, despite being smaller.

NChristo
05-09-2010, 03:55 PM
I was just going to ask what Holmes' opinion was.

Tyson's speed, accuracy and combinations as well as the ability to be more aggressive because he had a much better chin, made him the superior overall puncher. But it's certainly possibly that Shavers possessed more one punch power, despite being smaller.

Yeah, Tyson was clearly the superior finisher and had a much better chin.
His punching power came in swift strong combinations while Shavers came packed in one punch.

Even if he did hit harder, Tysons punches were more effective.

Ziggy Stardust
05-09-2010, 08:21 PM
Tyson hits harder than any heavyweight i have ever seen. Im his prime he was a machine.

Drink some more KoolAid son :trink26:

Poet

TheGreatA
05-09-2010, 09:46 PM
I think Shavers shows the superior punching power in his fight against Tillis although Tyson looks the better fighter by far. Shavers had Tillis's legs wobbling and near flattened him in the 9th round. This is what Tillis had to say about his knockdown against Shavers:

"I'll never forget the effect the hit took on me," Tillis wrote. "I'd walked into the Land of Make-Believe. Some fighters hear harps playing, some see the Day of the Judgment or just plain darkness. For me, it was saxophones and trombones sounding in my ear with one low-pitched note. Eeeeeeeeee, all one note, like a bagpiper who fell over dead with no one to stop the last note. As the note rang in my ear, I saw little blue rats scamper out to smoke cigarettes and eat Spam sandwiches."

It means nothing but I imagine he was quite stunned by the punch.

Tyson also knocked Tillis down but Tillis did not seem to be hurt, he was just caught clean on the chin when he didn't expect it. He got up smiling and lasted the distance.

cooper5
05-10-2010, 03:45 AM
Tillis fought a very old Shavers and a young Tyson so his opinion is just an opinion. Razor Ruddock might say Lewis hit harder than Tyson and Kevin McBride might say Austin hits harder. I guess it depends on when they are hitting you.

GoogleMe
05-10-2010, 03:57 AM
Tyson were much more explosive then Shavers, no doubt there. But that's turned more into speed. Heavy hands, a high weight and strong arms, hit's like a hammer. Speed is more K.O power to finish off in combination and quick. Heavy hands, ware your opponent down. That's my own experience from the ring. I'd say Tyson were the better combination puncher and finisher with his great explosion/speed. Shavers were slower but hit harder.

mickey malone
05-10-2010, 05:58 AM
I remember Tillis coming to England to fight Frank Bruno.. To say he's a bit 'cuckoo' would be putting it mildly, but he'd taken a few more punches by then..

Stallone60
05-10-2010, 07:04 AM
Drink some more KoolAid son :trink26:

Poet

Get your mum some koolaid prick.

catskills23
05-10-2010, 09:14 PM
It's interesting hearing how an opponent can face Fighter-A and say Fighter-B hit harder...then have another fighter that faced those same two fighters and say Fighter A hit harder than Fighter B.

Of course in this case, and even though Power is said to be the last thing to go, Shavers was around 36/37 ???...but Tyson was still only 19 so he still had room to grow in the strength/power department as well. Not sure how that works.



Article:



The 19-year-old man-child snorted in disgust and stepped back to compose himself. This was an unusual move for young Mike Tyson. Until Saturday's fight with James (Quick) Tillis at the Glens Falls ( N.Y.) Civic Center, he had rarely taken a backward step in a boxing ring. Clearly, Tyson was nonplussed. He had moved up in fighting class, and it showed.

Tillis had befuddled Tyson by absorbing or tying up his insistent hammers for the better part of four rounds, and this moment of indecision appeared to offer Tillis his best chance to shake up the boxing world. "Now," thought Tillis. "Now's the time." He threw caution and balance to the wind and launched his best left hook, intending to circle Tyson's peek-a-boo defense. The hook missed. Tyson, presented at last with an unprotected target, fired a short left hook. It was not his best punch—not by a long shot—but it landed cleanly on Tillis's jaw.

Tillis's eyes rolled back as he went sprawling to the canvas with 13 seconds left in Round 4. Tillis was grateful for the bell. Once his head stopped ringing, he would get back where he belonged. He would show this ferocious kid how one survives in the ring. Let somebody else suffer the consequences of trading haymakers with Mike Tyson. "I've heard of baby-sitting," Tillis said later, "but this is ridiculous."

"It's tough to hit shadows," Tillis's manager, Beau Williford, had said just before the fight, and with that knockdown as a warning, Tillis went back to ducking Tyson's bombs while occasionally punching out smart combinations. At times Tillis made Tyson look awkward, but mainly Quick merely survived. The battered and bloodied Tillis lost in a 10-round unanimous decision, though he became the first fighter to go the distance with the man-child. That accomplishment just might be worth an asterisk one day.

Such is life for Tyson, who of late can't seem to win for winning. "He punches harder than Earnie Shavers," Tillis said as Tyson came into the interview room after the fight. "Boy, you punch harder than...."

Tyson received the compliment with a knitted brow. He was not in a particularly good mood, though he had just won his 20th-straight pro fight and had handled his 28-year-old opponent with relative ease. And he was still just 19 years old. The trouble with being Mike Tyson is that you can't become heavyweight champion soon enough to suit the world. The world takes one look at your sculpted 215 pounds, your ominous glower, your wrecking-ball punches and says, "That's my champion." It reads wondrous things about you in Rolling Stone and Advertising Age and thinks, "Well, come on now." But Tyson isn't the champ. Not yet.

"Some people want to rush Mike," says Jimmy Jacobs, his co-manager. "The object isn't for him to fight for the heavyweight championship. The object is for him to win the heavyweight championship." So everybody, including Tyson, will have to keep his shirt on for a while. That may be harder for Tyson than for anyone else.

After he had won his previous fight, a third-round knockout of a tomato can named Steve Zouski in Uniondale, N.Y. on March 10, he felt he had to apologize for not dispatching Zouski in a more expeditious fashion. "I'm having personal problems," Tyson said. He is still very much a 19-year-old. As such, he yearns quite understandably for the joys of youth, joys that are usually denied a working heavyweight contender. "Girlfriend problems" is co-manager Bill Cay-ton's succinct diagnosis.

It seems that Tyson sometimes goes a little stir-crazy up in the Catskills, with nobody but trainer Kevin Rooney, "stepmother" Camille Ewald, a few pet pigeons and some sparring partners to keep him company. "I was running around looking for girls," Tyson says. "Girls were looking real good to me. :pat: But I had to decide, did I want to hang out at night, did I want to be a playboy?

"I decided I didn't."

i think tillis was just hyping tyson he became a sparring partner shortly after. he made it clear in his book that shavers hit the hardest.