View Full Version : Ring Magazine's 100 Greatest Punchers p4p


SonnyG8R
06-11-2005, 05:22 PM
In 2003, the writers of Ring Magazine published a ranking of the 100 greatest punchers of all-time. Not unlike an all-time pound-for-pound ranking, this list compares fighters across different weight categories and different eras. As such, it's entirely open for debate ...

1. Joe Louis
2. Sam Langford
3. Jimmy Wilde
4. Archie Moore
5. Sandy Saddler
6. Stanley Ketchell
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. George Foreman
10. Earnie Shavers
11. Sugar Ray Robinson
12. Ruben Olivares
13. Wilfredo Gomez
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Sonny Liston
16. Mike Tyson
17. Bob Foster
18. Thomas Hearns
19. Khaosai Galaxy
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Carlos Zarate
22. Max Baer
23. Rocky Graziano
24. Matthew Saad Muhammad
25. Julian Jackson
26. Danny Lopez
27. Gerald McClellan
28. Roberto Duran
29. Rodrigo Valdez
30. Felix Trinidad
31. Pipino Cuevas
32. Jim Jefferies
33. Lennox Lewis
34. Bennie Briscoe
35. Marvin Hagler
36. Edwin Rosario
37. Tommy Ryan
38. John Mugabi
39. Joe Frazier
40. Carlos Monzon
41. Tony Zale
42. Michael Spinks
43. Joe Gans
44. Elmer Ray
45. George Godfrey
46. Naseem Hamed
47. Alfonso Zamora
48. David Tua
49. Cleveland Williams
50. Julio Cesar Chavez
51. Tiger Jack Fox
52. Joe Walcott
53. Gerry Cooney
54. Al (Bummy) Davis
55. Max Schmeling
56. Florentino Fernandez
57. Henry Armstrong
58. Bob Satterfield
59. Al Hostak
60. Jesus Pimentel
61. Eugene (Cyclone) Hart
62. Lew Jenkins
63. Harry Wills
64. Tom Sharkey
65. Terry McGovern
66. Jersey Joe Walcott
67. Kostya Tszyu
68. Leotis Martin
69. Buddy Baer
70. Donovan (Razor) Ruddock
71. Jose Luis Ramirez
72. Tommy Gomez
73. Jose Napoles
74. Kid McCoy
75. Antonio Esparragoza
76. Ricardo Moreno
77. Evander Holyfield
78. Ike Williams
79. Luis Firpo
80. Ricardo Lopez
81. Humberto Gonzalez
82. Bobby Chacon
83. Jock McAvoy
84. Eduardo Lausse
85. Eder Jofre
86. Charley Burley
87. Mike McCallum
88. Salvador Sanchez
89. Roy Jones Jr.
90. Rodolfo Gonzalez
91. Nigel Benn
92. (Irish) Bob Murphy
93. Paul Berlenbach
94. Battling Torres
95. Chalky Wright
96. George (K.O.) Chaney
97. Andy Ganigan
98. Fred Fulton
99. Ingemar Johansson
100. Charley White

Source: Ring Magazine (2003)

I'd like to hear some thoughts and opinions.

I have a problem with Hagler being 17 spots behind Hearns.

Henry Armstrong only 57?

cple
06-11-2005, 06:53 PM
You have to remember that the list is p4p. Hagler was nowhere near the puncher Hearns was in his prime at 147. Hearns' right had was possibly the most devastating punch in welterweight history and Hagler wasn't much of a one-punch knockout artist.

Henry Armstrong was an accumulation puncher.

SonnyG8R
06-11-2005, 07:24 PM
You have to remember that the list is p4p. Hagler was nowhere near the puncher Hearns was in his prime at 147. Hearns' right had was possibly the most devastating punch in welterweight history and Hagler wasn't much of a one-punch knockout artist.

Henry Armstrong was an accumulation puncher.

Even at Featherweight? I know he wasn't as strong p4p at lightweight and welterweight.

I always thought 154 was a much more natural weight for Hearns.

czars_salad
06-11-2005, 08:11 PM
david tua was ranked higher than armstrong :p
yah right :rolleyes:

Jack H
06-21-2005, 12:50 AM
Having Sonny Liston and Michael Spinks so high on the list compared with the other boxers is a bit of a joke

Chups
06-21-2005, 02:52 AM
My idol Salvador Sanchez shouldn't be there....he's not a puncher at all. He breaks down opponents.

kadyo
06-21-2005, 03:33 AM
So muhammad ali is not a puncher? Damn, I wonder what his sport is!!! :confused:

Kid Achilles
06-21-2005, 10:43 AM
Ali was a terrible puncher. His hitting technique was much worse than Liston, who does belong where they put him. While Ali was quick, but he did not sit down on his punches enough, did not point his weight behind them.

Liston was quick, extremely powerful, and threw in combinations during his prime. Don't judge Liston by his fight with Ali; his best days were behind him at that point. In his prime he was a monster and many thought he would be the next Joe Louis. He didn't quite live up to the Brown Bomber, but that was due to his heart and not his ability or skill.

oldgringo
06-21-2005, 04:17 PM
I have a problem with Hearns NOT being top 15 and I have a problem with Mike McCallum being #87. I think he is quite possibly one of the most overlooked champions ever. He was a very sharp, accurate, and hard puncher in his prime and even into the twilight of his career.

LuKahnLi
06-21-2005, 07:51 PM
I think Marvin Hagler is actually too high. He was NOT a 1 shot puncher at all. He KO'd guys from accumulation.

I also say that Julian Jackson should be in the top 10.

.::EnRiQuE::.
06-21-2005, 08:05 PM
that list is a lil funny... Roy JOnes was on the list

NiGe2011
06-21-2005, 09:33 PM
I think Sonny Liston should have been higher, maybe Hamed as well...

Foreman
06-22-2005, 12:33 AM
Tyson's too high as is Lennox. Although Lennox had a better overall game, Tim Witherspoon should be above him in the power department. Before any Lennox nuthuggers get on me, watch a couple of Terrible Tim's COMPLETE fights. When he connected with that big right, it's lights out. A very underrated heavy.

buff_mike10
06-22-2005, 11:41 PM
Tommy Morrison should be on this list. Razor Ruddock said he hit harder than Mike Tyson. His left hook looked pretty impressive to me anyhow. I think Marciano belongs up there as well, the tests they did on his power tells all.

Kid Achilles
06-23-2005, 12:05 AM
Foreman I agree with you 100% I think Witherspoon certainly hit harder than Tyson and was a near equal to Lennox Lewis (in terms of power in the right hand) on his best night.

We've Got Bush
06-23-2005, 01:16 AM
30. Felix Trinidad
31. Pipino Cuevas
Cuevas hit much more harder then Tito.

Tha Greatest
06-23-2005, 02:40 AM
Hearns is my hero...I will become the champ out of the same gym he did...

Manny_P
06-23-2005, 03:10 AM
Hearns is my hero...I will become the champ out of the same gym he did...

tis guy is obviously smokin sumthing we haven't come across yet.

obaioghill
06-23-2005, 04:23 AM
that list is a lil funny... Roy JOnes was on the list
If you don't think Jones should be on the list you must have never seen him fight at middle and super middle - he was a monster. It wasn't untill he moved up to Lt Hvy that he stoped really running through people - and even then the punch he KO'd Virgil Hill with was one of the hardest punches in boxing P4P.

Kid Achilles
06-23-2005, 08:02 AM
and even then the punch he KO'd Virgil Hill with was one of the hardest punches in boxing P4P.

That is just hyperbole.

jayschre
06-23-2005, 08:17 AM
If you don't think Jones should be on the list you must have never seen him fight at middle and super middle - he was a monster. It wasn't untill he moved up to Lt Hvy that he stoped really running through people - and even then the punch he KO'd Virgil Hill with was one of the hardest punches in boxing P4P.:crackhead


If you think that Roy Jones belongs anywhere near this list then you need to pack your **** and get on outta here while you still have some of your dignity, lol. I don't even know how to respond to your last sentence, that is just nonsense!

Slipx
06-24-2005, 06:10 AM
hamed at #46, ring magazine is a joke.

Tiredoldngrey
06-25-2005, 08:02 AM
For what its worth there were two places in which I thought the writer was very insightful, assuming this is the same list that I read, by Ivan Goldman. The two places; first when he identified Zarate's best punch as the innocuous left uppercut to the body he threw like most guys jab. Second, saying that Chavez's big punch was the straight right. Very true; when he was ready to finish he threw that punch, straight as an arrow.

JohnThomas1
07-23-2005, 12:44 PM
I'd have Rosario and Hearns better and Spinks (LH) where he is is a disgrace.

IRONTIGER
07-25-2005, 04:54 AM
Ring Magazine's 100 Greatest Punchers p4p - where is -

:boxing: Dariusz Tiger Michalczewski :confused:

jabsRstiff
07-25-2005, 08:04 AM
Ring Magazine's 100 Greatest Punchers p4p - where is -

:boxing: Dariusz Tiger Michalczewski :confused:


Uhhhh....because he was never known as any kind of a KO artist, buddy.
THAT'S WHY.

Glaring omissions...
Aaron Pryor & Michael Carbajal.

TIGER
07-25-2005, 08:51 AM
Uhhhh....because he was never known as any kind of a KO artist, buddy.
THAT'S WHY
The Tiger Dariusz Michalczewski - record - won 48 - kos 38 :boxing: - lost 2 - total 50

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41858

pinkpanther
07-25-2005, 08:51 AM
I have a number of issues with the list:

Shavers should be above Forman
Julian Jackson should be higher
Robinson lower
Liston below Marciano?
Trinidad at 30?
The Beast should be higher
only 75 for Esparragoza - he could bang
I refuse to believe that in the history of boxing there are not 100 fighters who banged harder than RJJ and Holyfield.

jabsRstiff
07-25-2005, 10:17 AM
The Tiger Dariusz Michalczewski - record - won 48 - kos 38 :boxing: - lost 2 - total 50

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41858


Why are you Europeans always pointing out numbers ?
Boxing is one sport where numbers can tell very little of the story.

Darius has a decent percentage....but was not known for his power, & has never one-punch KO'd any fighter of note.

jabsRstiff
07-25-2005, 01:00 PM
all in all.....


The magazine is fantastic. I have it here at work, & I browse through it often.

jabsRstiff
07-25-2005, 01:02 PM
I'd have Rosario and Hearns better and Spinks (LH) where he is is a disgrace.


You don't know much, bro'

At 175, there have been FEW fighters who could punch like Michael Spinks could.
He was devastating, & was widely regarded as the best hitter (lb4lb)in the sport, while he reigned there.

In fact, I think he belongs much higher on the list.

LuKahnLi
07-25-2005, 05:10 PM
My complaints:

Hagler was rated too high. Above Edwin Rosario even!
Julian Jackson should have been top 10.

JohnThomas1
07-26-2005, 03:14 AM
jabsRstiff


this is exactly my point, it is a disgrace he is not placed better. Spinks was a one punch ko artist with either hand at LH and has a few of the best ko's ever. Agree about Haglertoo, a strong puncher but not a ko artist. Surely there is close to 100 ko artists when we are talking ever.

jabsRstiff
07-26-2005, 07:32 AM
jabsRstiff


this is exactly my point, it is a disgrace he is not placed better. Spinks was a one punch ko artist with either hand at LH and has a few of the best ko's ever. Agree about Haglertoo, a strong puncher but not a ko artist. Surely there is close to 100 ko artists when we are talking ever.


Sorry, I misread your post !

Verstyle
09-09-2005, 07:36 PM
tyson should be at least to 5 he wasnt south paw or orthodyx when he punched usually cause he had knock out power in both hands. ive seen him knockdown and hurt someone with a single jab that alone should catipult him way up there.

McDuffie
09-09-2005, 09:02 PM
Having Sonny Liston and Michael Spinks so high on the list compared with the other boxers is a bit of a joke

Ali said that Liston hit harder than Foreman.

Chuvalo is not even on the list.

Marciano is way below Louis.

No one should take this list seriously.

cple
09-09-2005, 09:21 PM
The Ring's list is of "the greatest punchers" not "the most powerful punchers"; it is not based purely on power. Though power is the main characteristic, being a good puncher consists of form, accuracy, precision, handspeed, and ability to put punches together. With that in mind, i agree with The Ring's selection of Joe Louis at #1.

As for the rest of the list, i have my disagreements, but that's with any list.

Skydog
09-10-2005, 12:47 AM
Joe Louis is definetley #1. No one else has punches that contain as much power, accuracy, speed, and precision like Louis.

I think Tyson could definetly move up. He was like Louis, but with a bit more power, but lacking the accuracy and handspeed.

number6
09-10-2005, 07:46 AM
I have a number of issues with the list:


I refuse to believe that in the history of boxing there are not 100 fighters who banged harder than RJJ and Holyfield.

Me too,poor list.

The Troll
09-10-2005, 10:03 AM
I think Gerald McClellan is the hardest puncher at 160 ever. He has like 20 first round KO's in 27 fights or something. Alot of them are pretty brutal too. He should be ranked higher.

Dirt E Gomez
09-10-2005, 12:55 PM
Henry Armstrong at 57? Pfffft, he murdered *****es.

Pariah21388
09-10-2005, 10:00 PM
WHERE THE HELL IS JACK JOHNSON? and tyson definetly should have moved up to at least

Skydog
09-10-2005, 11:33 PM
Tyson should easily be top 10. His punches were quick, accurate, and we know the power they contained. But he definetley isn't #1. That rightfully belongs to Joe Louis.

I think Ali could be in the 90's. Sure, his punches weren't powerful, but they were quick, sharp, and accurate. A lot of his punches had effect because people couldn't see them.

Skydog
09-10-2005, 11:35 PM
By the way, SRR should fefientley be top 10 as well. His punches were probably the fastest with the most power (with the excpetion of Tyson).

natromgon
09-11-2005, 02:25 AM
Nobody, absolutely nobody could withstand a single solid punch of IRON MIKE TYSON in his prime. No two legged boxer can stand in front of Iron Mike, absorb even a single punch and remain standing. Come on, what we're talking about is who is the heaviest puncher not the best boxer. I say its Tyson! No contest! Even Foreman, a very huge heavyweight has no match to Iron Mike's power!

STEELERDYNASTY
09-11-2005, 09:24 AM
Tyson should be higher on that list.

jabsRstiff
09-12-2005, 10:28 AM
Nobody, absolutely nobody could withstand a single solid punch of IRON MIKE TYSON in his prime. No two legged boxer can stand in front of Iron Mike, absorb even a single punch and remain standing. Come on, what we're talking about is who is the heaviest puncher not the best boxer. I say its Tyson! No contest! Even Foreman, a very huge heavyweight has no match to Iron Mike's power!


Tony Tucker, Mitch Green, James Tillis, Evander Holyfield, Bonecrusher Smith.
They all had TWO LEGS, took Tyson's punch, & stayed up...

Kid Achilles
09-12-2005, 01:01 PM
This has been done to death a million times. Tim Witherspoon, Mike Weaver, hell probably even Gerry Cooney had punches that were heavier or more damaging than Mike Tyson's best left hook. Stop talking about his power like it has never been seen before in boxing because every era had a guy (or a few of em) who hit as hard or harder than Tyson. The only ones who can't see that are children or casual fans who don't understand the sport.

Boxing is not about being the hardest puncher, but about delivering whatever punch you may have on your opponent while protecting yourself from his. Tyson was by far better at this than anyone around at the time, and so he dominated. It wasn't because he was the hardest hitter of his era. The power was essential to his success but it alone wouldn't have been enough to allow him to beat half those guys (as bad as many of them were).

fight fan
09-13-2005, 03:23 PM
How about heavyweight Young Stribling? The guy had 125 KO's in his career. Only Archie Moore has more career KO's than Young Stribling! He career was cut short by a fatal motorcycle accident.

boxstarr
09-13-2005, 04:18 PM
Nobody, absolutely nobody could withstand a single solid punch of IRON MIKE TYSON in his prime. No two legged boxer can stand in front of Iron Mike, absorb even a single punch and remain standing. Come on, what we're talking about is who is the heaviest puncher not the best boxer. I say its Tyson! No contest! Even Foreman, a very huge heavyweight has no match to Iron Mike's power!

please never say anything like this again

otherwise tyson would have had a string of 1 punch KOs throughut his entire prime

Pariah21388
09-13-2005, 08:59 PM
Tony Tucker, Mitch Green, James Tillis, Evander Holyfield, Bonecrusher Smith.
They all had TWO LEGS, took Tyson's punch, & stayed up...
Evander Holyfield fought tyson when tyson was on drugs and wasnt prepared...so did lennox lewis


how come jack johnson isnt on the list????????????

Skydog
09-13-2005, 09:14 PM
Tyson's punches weren't that much heavier than Louis's, and his left hook, at it's best, is just as powerful as one of Frazier's.

His punches were heavy, but not even close to the likes of Foreman.

Imira
09-14-2005, 11:51 PM
Not a bad list, I guess. I disagree with Liston ranking below Shavers. Jeffries could stand to be moved up a spot or two. I'm really surprised Burley made it as high as he did. And the only reason they rank Frazier is below Lewis is because too many people continually fall for the same "Frazier has less right-handed power" myth. Other than those, it's not a bad list at all.

Verstyle
09-16-2005, 07:08 PM
Tony Tucker, Mitch Green, James Tillis, Evander Holyfield, Bonecrusher Smith.
They all had TWO LEGS, took Tyson's punch, & stayed up... ok and what does tyson have to knock out everybody what good heavyweight do u know that knocked out all of there opponents jabsrstiff. u saw how tyson was knockin out everyone and u automatically think "hey he didnt knock out this guys so he's not that good so i guess all the heavyweights arent that good either huh?

jangeorg
09-16-2005, 07:44 PM
Missing one: Ayub Kalule
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=002324

KidBlackie
09-17-2005, 11:48 PM
[[[how come jack johnson isnt on the list????????????]]]
====================

Johnson was a peashooter compared to big sluggers. Knocking out and being knocked down or out by middleweights ain't gonna enhance your reputation.

Skydog
09-25-2005, 09:29 PM
Nobody, absolutely nobody could withstand a single solid punch of IRON MIKE TYSON in his prime. No two legged boxer can stand in front of Iron Mike, absorb even a single punch and remain standing. Come on, what we're talking about is who is the heaviest puncher not the best boxer. I say its Tyson! No contest! Even Foreman, a very huge heavyweight has no match to Iron Mike's power!

Ok, we just learned how much he knows about boxing in one post.

jabsRstiff
10-05-2005, 10:11 AM
Left Off List =

RON LYLE.

KO'd Shavers.....had Foreman down twice & just about gone.

Dude was a big-time hitter. Certainly more of a puncher than Evander Holyfield, Salvador Sanchez, etc.

Cockyb
10-05-2005, 10:37 AM
pound for pound hamed was one of the best, the same goes for tszyu! those two should definately be higher up the list!

as for the whole list theres tooooo many boxers in the wrong place. but hamed and tszyu stood out wen i went quickly thru da list.

and can i ask, "greatest puncher" does dat mean 1punch KO power or accurate hard puching?????
if u can answer that, then arguments for and against boxers will be easier.

jabsRstiff
10-05-2005, 10:41 AM
pound for pound hamed was one of the best, the same goes for tszyu! those two should definately be higher up the list!

as for the whole list theres tooooo many boxers in the wrong place. but hamed and tszyu stood out wen i went quickly thru da list.

and can i ask, "greatest puncher" does dat mean 1punch KO power or accurate hard puching?????
if u can answer that, then arguments for and against boxers will be easier.


It means a little bit of both. Which would explain why Joe Louis is #1, over a guy like Shavers.
Shavers, I'm sure, had a lot more heft on his shots than did Joe.....but Joe had the far superior delivery system.

Cockyb
10-05-2005, 10:44 AM
But saying that, that should mean tyson should be at the very top of the list, any1 that saw him at his prime would agree, he vollied people with shots at blinding speed and stupid power!

and what the hell is lewis doin up there lol

jabsRstiff
10-05-2005, 10:59 AM
But saying that, that should mean tyson should be at the very top of the list, any1 that saw him at his prime would agree, he vollied people with shots at blinding speed and stupid power!

and what the hell is lewis doin up there lol

Not necessarily.....because it is a variety of things.
Tyson, while being an excellent offensive fighter, wasn't really a one-punch KO guy, ala Shavers or Louis.

I think Julian Jackson should be higher..because he knocked a # of WORLD CLASS foes unconscious with just one punch. He was the most DANGEROUS puncher in history. He could be out on his feet & starch the foe.

Cockyb
10-05-2005, 11:03 AM
I know tyson isnt a 1punch KO artist, but he is a 'great' puncher! one of da very best easily!

so thats what should pout him higher, but talkin about 1punch power, hamed and tsyzu, like iv sed earlier shud b wel higher up!

McGoorty
08-07-2011, 05:52 AM
In 2003, the writers of Ring Magazine published a ranking of the 100 greatest punchers of all-time. Not unlike an all-time pound-for-pound ranking, this list compares fighters across different weight categories and different eras. As such, it's entirely open for debate ...

1. Joe Louis
2. Sam Langford
3. Jimmy Wilde
4. Archie Moore
5. Sandy Saddler
6. Stanley Ketchell
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. George Foreman
10. Earnie Shavers
11. Sugar Ray Robinson
12. Ruben Olivares
13. Wilfredo Gomez
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Sonny Liston
16. Mike Tyson
17. Bob Foster
18. Thomas Hearns
19. Khaosai Galaxy
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Carlos Zarate
22. Max Baer
23. Rocky Graziano
24. Matthew Saad Muhammad
25. Julian Jackson
26. Danny Lopez
27. Gerald McClellan
28. Roberto Duran
29. Rodrigo Valdez
30. Felix Trinidad
31. Pipino Cuevas
32. Jim Jefferies
33. Lennox Lewis
34. Bennie Briscoe
35. Marvin Hagler
36. Edwin Rosario
37. Tommy Ryan
38. John Mugabi
39. Joe Frazier
40. Carlos Monzon
41. Tony Zale
42. Michael Spinks
43. Joe Gans
44. Elmer Ray
45. George Godfrey
46. Naseem Hamed
47. Alfonso Zamora
48. David Tua
49. Cleveland Williams
50. Julio Cesar Chavez
51. Tiger Jack Fox
52. Joe Walcott
53. Gerry Cooney
54. Al (Bummy) Davis
55. Max Schmeling
56. Florentino Fernandez
57. Henry Armstrong
58. Bob Satterfield
59. Al Hostak
60. Jesus Pimentel
61. Eugene (Cyclone) Hart
62. Lew Jenkins
63. Harry Wills
64. Tom Sharkey
65. Terry McGovern
66. Jersey Joe Walcott
67. Kostya Tszyu
68. Leotis Martin
69. Buddy Baer
70. Donovan (Razor) Ruddock
71. Jose Luis Ramirez
72. Tommy Gomez
73. Jose Napoles
74. Kid McCoy
75. Antonio Esparragoza
76. Ricardo Moreno
77. Evander Holyfield
78. Ike Williams
79. Luis Firpo
80. Ricardo Lopez
81. Humberto Gonzalez
82. Bobby Chacon
83. Jock McAvoy
84. Eduardo Lausse
85. Eder Jofre
86. Charley Burley
87. Mike McCallum
88. Salvador Sanchez
89. Roy Jones Jr.
90. Rodolfo Gonzalez
91. Nigel Benn
92. (Irish) Bob Murphy
93. Paul Berlenbach
94. Battling Torres
95. Chalky Wright
96. George (K.O.) Chaney
97. Andy Ganigan
98. Fred Fulton
99. Ingemar Johansson
100. Charley White

Source: Ring Magazine (2003)

I'd like to hear some thoughts and opinions.

I have a problem with Hagler being 17 spots behind Hearns.

Henry Armstrong only 57?
Fred Fulton ahead of Les,................ Lol,... Lol....lol......lol.............. Marciano MUST be Higher too

McGoorty
08-07-2011, 05:54 AM
But saying that, that should mean tyson should be at the very top of the list, any1 that saw him at his prime would agree, he vollied people with shots at blinding speed and stupid power!

and what the hell is lewis doin up there lol
I lol at your lol and raise you two lol's....... you rate Tyson too high,

Barn
08-07-2011, 09:02 AM
Dempsey at No7 irritates me.

New England
08-07-2011, 11:04 AM
jabsRstiff


this is exactly my point, it is a disgrace he is not placed better. Spinks was a one punch ko artist with either hand at LH and has a few of the best ko's ever. Agree about Haglertoo, a strong puncher but not a ko artist. Surely there is close to 100 ko artists when we are talking ever.



i think hagler (and monzon, to a certain degree, though monzon was an absolutely vicious puncher on the few occasions he wanted to be,) gets a better //more favorable look back at his power because of his chin

he was also a good short puncher. he had a big left hand. i liked it from the orthodox as a hook perhaps the most


in exchanges, the man with the chin, and not always the puncher, generally has the advantage

you get more credit for your power it seems if a guy wont stop to exchange with you
brisco and haggler come to mind when i think of guys that fit the bill


so haglers biggest win, the one that put him on the list more than any of his others certainly, the best 3 round fight ever with hearns, might be due more to his chin than his punch. that fight was essentially a three round exchange with some lapses for them to breath and recover from punches


but on the other hand, hearns had an underrated chin
and haggler hurt//effected him with basically every flush punch after a round and a half




this list --even more than a p4p list, which is largely based on resume and accomplishments, which are valued subjectively, but are based on facts --
is SUB-JEC-TIVE. wicked subjective
you're evaluating punching power p4p
effectiveness with punches.


i'm glad somebody bumped this thread, and has been bumping some old threads



it's great to see posts from like '05 from a guy who is still posting who has like 500 bil in his bank asking "was ali a good/big puncher?"


lets hope he's learned something since then

NChristo
08-07-2011, 01:06 PM
Napoles at no73 irritates me.

Perfect Plex
08-07-2011, 01:35 PM
Dempsey at No7 irritates me.

Why? Dempsey was a incredible puncher....

Pastrano
08-07-2011, 03:31 PM
Langford is too high up. Baer sure hit harder than him!

Barn
08-07-2011, 04:31 PM
Why? Dempsey was a incredible puncher....
I feel he has over-rated power. He's not in the same league as Foreman, Liston, Marciano and Shavers.

Barn
08-07-2011, 04:32 PM
Langford is too high up. Baer sure hit harder than him!
Maybe it has something to do with Langford weighing quite a substantial bit less.

Perfect Plex
08-07-2011, 04:38 PM
I feel he has over-rated power. He's not in the same league as Foreman, Liston, Marciano and Shavers.

I'd say he is easily in there league. And I'd say he punched harder than Liston and possibly Marciano aswell.

I remember reading in a book about Dempsey, and fighters who fought him said they have never felt power like his and it was like getting hit by a truck.

Barn
08-07-2011, 05:04 PM
Dempsey couldn't even properly KO Williard, if Foreman or Liston got that many clean punches in, Williard is history.

Saying he punched harder than Liston is crazy in my opinion.

IronDanHamza
08-07-2011, 05:07 PM
Dempsey couldn't even properly KO Williard, if Foreman or Liston got that many clean punches in, Williard is history.

Saying he punched harder than Liston is crazy in my opinion.

Same here.

JAB5239
08-07-2011, 05:52 PM
Langford is too high up. Baer sure hit harder than him!

How do you figure? Langford was 30 to 40lbs lighter at their best weights and was knocking heavyweights cold with one shot, the same as Baer. P4p it stands to reason because of this Langford is the better p4p pouncher.

Perfect Plex
08-07-2011, 08:12 PM
Dempsey couldn't even properly KO Williard, if Foreman or Liston got that many clean punches in, Williard is history.

Saying he punched harder than Liston is crazy in my opinion.

Willard had a insane chin do. Dempsey broke his jaw, cheekbone, burst his ear drum and evetually stopped him. C'mon man, that is scary power.

And it's no cert Liston knocks out Willard cold. Journyman Bert Whitehurst did go the distance with him when Liston was in his prime, someone who I feels Dempsey KO's. Lesser fighters with less durablity went the distance with Liston, so its not out the question Willard could.

I remember reading in my Gene Tunney book, Gene said Dempsey power was just outright scary, something which he'd never felt before. And that was Jack past his best aswell.

He may be overrated, but Jack Dempsey's power can't be denied imo.

Barn
08-07-2011, 08:16 PM
Willard had a insane chin do. Dempsey broke his jaw, cheekbone, burst his ear drum and evetually stopped him. C'mon man, that is scary power.

And it's no cert Liston knocks out Willard cold. Journyman Bert Whitehurst did go the distance with him when Liston was in his prime, someone who I feels Dempsey KO's. Lesser fighters with less durablity went the distance with Liston, so its not out the question Willard could.

I remember reading in my Gene Tunney book, Gene said Dempsey power was just outright scary, something which he'd never felt before. And that was Jack past his best aswell.

He may be overrated, but Jack Dempsey's power can't be denied imo.
Ken Norton broke Ali's jaw, did he have scary power?

I've had a busted eardrum in a gloved fight before.

What other power punchers did Gene Tunney actually face? It was probably his first experience of very good power. I'm not saying Dempsey was feather-fisted here. I'm just saying he doesn't belong in the Top 10 ATG power hitters.

Perfect Plex
08-07-2011, 08:27 PM
Ken Norton broke Ali's jaw, did he have scary power?

I've had a busted eardrum in a gloved fight before.

What other power punchers did Gene Tunney actually face? It was probably his first experience of very good power. I'm not saying Dempsey was feather-fisted here. I'm just saying he doesn't belong in the Top 10 ATG power hitters.

But Liston had scary power because he knocked out the iron chinned Floyd Patterson?

Ray Arcel claimed Dempsey was probaly the hardest puncher he EVER saw in his lifetime. That speaks for itself.

Dempsey also KO'd more durable fighters & overall better fighters than Liston did.

To say it's crazy to compare Dempseys power to Liston's is utter BS.

The_Demon
08-07-2011, 08:32 PM
Dempsey couldn't even properly KO Williard, if Foreman or Liston got that many clean punches in, Williard is history.

Saying he punched harder than Liston is crazy in my opinion.

Co-sign,Dempsey is too high on the list imo

Ziggy Stardust
08-07-2011, 09:00 PM
OK. Now I was a regular subscriber to Ring Magazine when this list came out and as they explained it in issue the list is "greatest puncher" not "hardest puncher". The list is for the total package as a puncher not just power. Power is only one part of the equation. Precision and accuracy, explosiveness, speed, combinations, ect. all factor into the ratings. And rightly so.

Poet

GoogleMe
08-08-2011, 04:15 AM
Hamed is wayyyyyyyy too low... Could easily be top 20 or 15.

Barn
08-08-2011, 04:31 AM
But Liston had scary power because he knocked out the iron chinned Floyd Patterson?

Ray Arcel claimed Dempsey was probaly the hardest puncher he EVER saw in his lifetime. That speaks for itself.

Dempsey also KO'd more durable fighters & overall better fighters than Liston did.

To say it's crazy to compare Dempseys power to Liston's is utter BS.
Who? The ever durable Georges Carpentier?

McGoorty
08-08-2011, 05:54 AM
Dempsey couldn't even properly KO Williard, if Foreman or Liston got that many clean punches in, Williard is history.

Saying he punched harder than Liston is crazy in my opinion.
Maybe they are "Heavier" punchers but p4p he is high up there... P.S. I know Marciano was a similar weight and I think he hit heavier than Dempsey, but I can't say with certainty. I don't know where the idea came from that Willard wasn't tough,.. against Dempsey, Jess showed more guts and fortitude than I've ever seen :-- PERIOD.... what a heroic man Jess Willard was !!!!!!,. he was Freakin' hard, just not one of the more talented and I think he'd go allright today, nobodies breaking Jess's jaw with these big gloves, and there's no plaster inside,...... I admire Willard, he deserves to be remembered.

Barn
08-08-2011, 06:03 AM
I think the easiest way to settle the debate of Liston vs Dempsey is looking at the footage.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HIIx9h7yhaw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/arekKXBuA-0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Don't get me wrong, I like Dempsey (which is why I have a highlight made) I just don't feel he compares with Liston in terms of raw power.

Greatest1942
08-08-2011, 06:32 AM
I think the easiest way to settle the debate of Liston vs Dempsey is looking at the footage.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HIIx9h7yhaw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/arekKXBuA-0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Don't get me wrong, I like Dempsey (which is why I have a highlight made) I just don't feel he compares with Liston in terms of raw power.

Did Liston punch harder than Dempsey ? yea..P4P ? Dempsey...I did not see Liston knocking out guys 40-50 pounds heavier...

You see Willard taking so many punches and say Liston would have put him away...this is wrong IMO...Willard had a solid chin...he was not easy to put away..jack Johnson did not put him away in 26 rounds..yea he was unskilled, but he was tough...the fact that Dempsey did hurt him so easily while being outweighed speaks for itself. That KO is a credit.

Well Liston could not KO Marty Marshall who wa sinfact smaller than him by large extent, while he did hit him with some punches...that makes Liston a poor puncher ?

Dempsey did KO Fulton in 18 seconds...don't think he landed multiple blows there ? He had a record of 1st round Ko's and in those I don't think he needed as many shots as Willard.

Yea he could not KO a lot of good fighters, so could not Liston...Machen escaped him.

Lastly it was the greatest puncher not hardest...it appears to me Dempsey's punches were shorter, more compact and he did have better handspeed, and put together better combos. All these count...Otherwise some one like Shavers would have been #1 not Louis.

Barn
08-08-2011, 06:47 AM
Did Liston punch harder than Dempsey ? yea..P4P ? Dempsey...I did not see Liston knocking out guys 30 pounds heavier...

You see Willard taking so many punches and say Liston would have put him away...this is wrong IMO...Willard had a solid chin...he was not easy to put away..jack Johnson did not put him away in 26 rounds..yea he was unskilled, but he was tough...the fact that Dempsey did hurt him so easily while being outweighed speaks for itself. That KO is a credit.

Well Liston could not KO Marty Marshall who wa sinfact smaller than him by large extent, while he did hit him with some punches...that makes Liston a poor puncher ?

Dempsey did KO Fulton in 18 seconds...don't think he landed multiple blows there ? He had a record of 1st round Ko's and in those I don't think he needed as many shots as Willard.

Yea he could not KO a lot of good fighters, so could not Liston...Machen escaped him.

Lastly it was the greatest puncher not hardest...it appears to me Dempsey's punches were shorter, more compact and he did have better handspeed, and put together better combos. All these count...Otherwise some one like Shavers would have been #1 not Louis.

We all know Jack Johnson was quite the bit past prime here.

He managed it the first time, putting him down 7 times in total.

Fulton nearly has the same ratio of Losses/KO losses as Patterson, albeit that's a good KO as he was so much heavier.

Why is Muhammad Ali not on this list then :thinking:

Another point, you keep referring to weight. If this is the case how is Joe Walcott so low on this list? He's at #52 and routinely knocked out people much heavier than him.

Greatest1942
08-08-2011, 06:51 AM
Who? The ever durable Georges Carpentier?

What is so wrong with Carpentier? he was 17 when he lost to Dixie Kid,18 when he lost to Klaus and Papke,and 20 when he lost to Jeanette.
Carpentier was 30 when he lost to Gibbons. Tunney beat him up, but he hung on...staged almost a comeback...then was stopped by body punch,didn't quit, and does not seem to be so undurable either, outside his prime he lost to Loughran .

He won the european titles at welter, middle, lightheavy and heavy. Today it will be equal to holding some belt...he winning percentage seems fine.

He held his own against Dempsey , Tunney, Jeannette, Papke, and defeated Jeff Smith, who beat Les Darcy and drew several times with Harry Greb and Mike Gibbons. He was not a great fighter, but he certainly was world class and no bum...

Barn
08-08-2011, 06:55 AM
What is so wrong with Carpentier? he was 17 when he lost to Dixie Kid,18 when he lost to Klaus and Papke,and 20 when he lost to Jeanette.
Carpentier was 30 when he lost to Gibbons. Tunney beat him up, but he hung on...staged almost a comeback...then was stopped by body punch,didn't quit, and does not seem to be so undurable either, outside his prime he lost to Loughran .

He won the european titles at welter, middle, lightheavy and heavy. Today it will be equal to holding some belt...he winning percentage seems fine.

He held his own against Dempsey , Tunney, Jeannette, Papke, and defeated Jeff Smith, who beat Les Darcy and drew several times with Harry Greb and Mike Gibbons. He was not a great fighter, but he certainly was world class and no bum...
Who said there was something wrong with him?

Just stating he's not the best example of a "tough and durable fighter" you could use to back up your examples.

Greatest1942
08-08-2011, 07:05 AM
We all know Jack Johnson was quite the bit past prime here.

He managed it the first time, putting him down 7 times in total.

Fulton nearly has the same ratio of Losses/KO losses as Patterson, albeit that's a good KO as he was so much heavier.

Why is Muhammad Ali not on this list then :thinking:

Another point, you keep referring to weight. If this is the case how is Joe Walcott so low on this list? He's at #52 and routinely knocked out people much heavier than him.
"He managed it the first time, putting him down 7 times in total."

He did not put him away in 26 rounds, and while Johnson was outside of his prime, Willard barely learnt to box some years ago...I dont think he could protect himself well, and he needed his durabilty to stay afloat...teh fight with Johnson speaks volumes about Willard's durability.

Fulton was good, he did not have a good chin...his Losses/Ko ratio is same as Patterson..it appears to me that in 18 seconds Dempsey hit Fulton much less (should be ), than Liston did in knocking out Patterson, who was also smaller than him.


Ali did not have one punch power, never really sat down on his punches, was a flurrier than a combination puncher, needed really a great amount of punches generally to hurt someone), has rarely some 1st round KO's or so to show he had raw power...

Just to reiterate ...RAW POWER IS A CRITERIA , NOT THE CRITERIA...you must have raw power to hurt guys quickly, or with one punch...but you also need the other assets to be a great puncher. Besides I do think that Ko percentage should count for something, and in these Walcott or Ali falls short.

Walcott, please let me know who did Walcott hurt who weighed much more than him ? Just curious? Ezzard Charles? Louis? He did not KO Abe Simons and Simons has a worse beard than Willard...I mentioned weigh , and also told that besides being heavier than Dempsey Willard was certainly tough and had a great chin...I don't think Liston would have put him away easily too.

Greatest1942
08-08-2011, 07:07 AM
Who said there was something wrong with him?

Just stating he's not the best example of a "tough and durable fighter" you could use to back up your examples.

The fact that Carpeinter is world class , only shows that it was a good win on Dempsey's resume.

I don't think Knocking out world class opponents hurts...I do not discredit the Patterson KO by Liston too.

NChristo
08-08-2011, 07:09 AM
Walcott, please let me know who did Walcott hurt who weighed much more than him ? Just curious? Ezzard Charles? Louis? He did not KO Abe Simons and Simons has a worse beard than Willard...I mentioned weigh , and also told that besides being heavier than Dempsey Willard was certainly tough and had a great chin...I don't think Liston would have put him away easily too.

He is talking about the Joe Walcott, not Jersey Joe.

Greatest1942
08-08-2011, 07:17 AM
He is talking about the Joe Walcott, not Jersey Joe.

Ohh!!! I didnt see teh list my bad...why Barbados Joe Walcott is so low I dont know honestly...I never saw him...Nat did maybe..and I don't have enough ammunition to say yes or no...

Though from what I have read of Walcott he was a fanstastic hitter, but not much of a combination puncher...

Speed, Accuracy , power, timing al these go in making a great puncher...I don't know which bus Walcott missed Barnburner.

NChristo had I known it was Barbados I wouldnot have asked "larger man " question....I know of Fred Russel

NChristo
08-08-2011, 07:26 AM
Ohh!!! I didnt see teh list my bad...why Barbados Joe Walcott is so low I dont know honestly...I never saw him...Nat did maybe..and I don't have enough ammunition to say yes or no...

Though from what I have read of Walcott he was a fanstastic hitter, but not much of a combination puncher...

Speed, Accuracy , power, timing al these go in making a great puncher...I don't know which bus Walcott missed Barnburner.

NChristo had I known it was Barbados I wouldnot have asked "larger man " question....I know of Fred Russel

Thought you'd know of the Fred Russel fight, thought I'd mention it anyway amazes me every time I hear of it.
Don't know too much of if Walcott was a combination puncher either but this list is pretty poor imo, if it's on combination punching, speed, power, timing then as I said before why is Jose Napoles and McCallum so low, the order of a lot of the names needs a big change.

Greatest1942
08-08-2011, 07:47 AM
Thought you'd know of the Fred Russel fight, thought I'd mention it anyway amazes me every time I hear of it.
Don't know too much of if Walcott was a combination puncher either but this list is pretty poor imo, if it's on combination punching, speed, power, timing then as I said before why is Jose Napoles and McCallum so low, the order of a lot of the names needs a big change.

The Russel KO was amazing...Fred Russell stood at 6 feet 5, 255 pounds...Walcott if I remmebr correctly knocked out Choynski, who knocked out Jackson later...Actually to be honest with you these kinds of list are never 100% full proof...I am just going by their declartion that is the greatest puncher not the hardest puncher.

Joe Louis is good at #1, and Sam too at #2...I have my reservations for #3, anyways ...any one please don't jump at me... Its just my idea...I won't like to defend it.

By the by, I would have loved to see Walcott's fight with Lavigne...

Here's a quote

***8220;Look at this ear that I***8217;m carrying. It is a memory of one fight. My old pal Joe Walcott gave it to me in our first fight and almost at the start of it. Some people think that Walcott can hit. It got past the imagination place with me before we boxed one round.

***8220;I knew it was true the first time he landed. And the first time he put one fair on this left ear, he sent me back to my corner wondering if I***8217;d ever forget that poke. That was where I got my ear. In a round or two it puffed up and filled with blood so that it looked like a raw tomato. It felt worse than it looked. There was a whole comic opera chorus in my head, singing songs that sounded like the music you hear in the dentist***8217;s chair just before they wake you up.

***8220;What would have happened if Walcott hadn***8217;t played surgeon for me, no one can tell. But along in the fourth or fifth round, he brought his glove over on the bad ear, pulled the heel across it and burst the ear. The songs stopped, the pain went, the ear shrank and Mr Walcott was stopped in round fifteen.***8221;
--Kid Lavigne

Pastrano
08-08-2011, 09:56 AM
How do you figure? Langford was 30 to 40lbs lighter at their best weights and was knocking heavyweights cold with one shot, the same as Baer. P4p it stands to reason because of this Langford is the better p4p pouncher.

Ah, ok I see.

jabsRstiff
08-08-2011, 02:49 PM
I think one of the most glaring omissions from that list was MICHAEL CARBAJAL.

He was a great puncher- ended a lot of fights, or turned the fight around, with one shot.

He was certainly a far bigger puncher than many of those who did make the list.

The Surgeon
08-08-2011, 04:48 PM
I think one of the most glaring omissions from that list was MICHAEL CARBAJAL.

He was a great puncher- ended a lot of fights, or turned the fight around, with one shot.

He was certainly a far bigger puncher than many of those who did make the list.

Well spotted mate