Thought this warranted its own thread.

"The most damning indictment is the systematic attempt by persons within the club to conceal payments from the salary cap auditor and, it would now seem certain from the club's board and from its owners, on an ongoing basis,'' Gallop said.


What a disgraceful club.

Thought this warranted its own thread.

"The most damning indictment is the systematic attempt by persons within the club to conceal payments from the salary cap auditor and, it would now seem certain from the club's board and from its owners, on an ongoing basis,'' Gallop said.


What a disgraceful club.

Just heard about this too. Yes it's bloody disgraceful. When are these clubs going to learn to deal properly? I always thought the Storm had alot of talent and now this comes out, it's a stain on League in general and a huge blow to League in Victoria.

Dan you don't seriously think they are the only one's do you? I bet most clubs who aren't in the red are finding ways around it. The AFL clubs are experts at it.
This may kill the club in this state though.
The bad publicity and the fact that they can't finish anywhere but bottom this season may turn fans away in their droves. Once that happens it's all over for them.

I'm gutted, disillusioned & disappointed.
I don't see the club surviving this.
And for all you guys ready to sink the boots in, please remember there are some avid NRL fans in this state who are heartbroken at these events.

Just heard about this too. Yes it's bloody disgraceful. When are these clubs going to learn to deal properly? I always thought the Storm had alot of talent and now this comes out, it's a stain on League in general and a huge blow to League in Victoria.

I think that might be just about it for League in Victoria to be honest.

The Storm were struggling to get fans when they were winning the Comp two in three years and winning almost every game.

Now they are going to be regarded as a pack of bottom-feeders that have not achieved anything and will get the spoon this year.

Yeah, I'd be surprised if they managed to survive this. Having said that, I don't particularly care if they don't. Good riddance.

Dan you don't seriously think they are the only one's do you? I bet most clubs who aren't in the red are finding ways around it. The AFL clubs are experts at it.
This may kill the club in this state though.
The bad publicity and the fact that they can't finish anywhere but bottom this season may turn fans away in their droves. Once that happens it's all over for them.

I'm gutted, disillusioned & disappointed.
I don't see the club surviving this.
And for all you guys ready to sink the boots in, please remember there are some avid NRL fans in this state who are heartbroken at these events.

Yeah I do mate. I think it is highlighted by the fact that the club that was caught cheating has been BY FAR the best club in the competition over the past few years. Its not rocket science.

I understand you are disappointed mate, I would be beyond gutted. Come up here and join the Broncs fans, just about all of your players are Queenslanders anyways.

Yeah I do mate. I think it is highlighted by the fact that the club that was caught cheating has been BY FAR the best club in the competition over the past few years. Its not rocket science.

I understand you are disappointed mate, I would be beyond gutted. Come up here and join the Broncs fans, just about all of your players are Queenslanders anyways.

Look at some of the Broncos team of the early 2000's.
Would have been tough to keep that lot under the cap as well. Successful as well? Storm & the dogs got caught. I think you would be naive to think that were the only clubs who diddled the salary cap books.

Chris Judd from Carlton in the AFL is getting several hundred thousand dollars above his $1 million salary.
He is supposed to be the "environmental ambassador"
Yet has never spoken for them, well maybe once he did.
Carlton's President was the owner of Visy and yet the AFL let it through. A salary cap just isn't workable unless all the players are prepared to accept peanuts compared to their overseas adversaries.

Read link

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/secrets-of-judds-pay-packet/story-0-1111119003118

I predict the Storm will get belted by the Warriors this weekend. The players wont be able to focus on their game with this hanging over the club.

I predict the Storm will get belted by the Warriors this weekend. The players wont be able to focus on their game with this hanging over the club.

Its not really hanging over the club so much as its ripped right through it.

Right before the opening of the stadium and all. What timing.

Look at some of the Broncos team of the early 2000's.
Would have been tough to keep that lot under the cap as well. Successful as well? Storm & the dogs got caught. I think you would be naive to think that were the only clubs who diddled the salary cap books.

Chris Judd from Carlton in the AFL is getting several hundred thousand dollars above his $1 million salary.
He is supposed to be the "environmental ambassador"
Yet has never spoken for them, well maybe once he did.
Carlton's President was the owner of Visy and yet the AFL let it through. A salary cap just isn't workable unless all the players are prepared to accept peanuts compared to their overseas adversaries.

Read link

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/secrets-of-judds-pay-packet/story-0-1111119003118

I take it thats a No to supporting the Broncs then mate?

I take it thats a No to supporting the Broncs then mate?

Well - It depends on what happens at the Storm. If they survive or not. I have my doubts.
Before the storm came along I used to follow the West Magpies before the Merge with Balmain. But having lived in Queensland for 4 or 5 years you had to keep up to date with what the Bronco's were up to.

It explains clearly now why they were so successful for 5 years.

Why would they bother playing week to week from now on, knowing it is all for nothing.
And why the hell would the fans turn out to games..
I think they should just quit playing for the rest of the season, and just a have a bye instead..
I wonder if the broncos ever breached the salary cap with the number of elite rep players they've had over the years.

The competition and the game has been ruined..I wonder if the game can actually survive this big scandal.
The NRL can't seem to avoid controversy and negative news..How can it survive this one..
I bet more fans will turn away from the sport now.

As for the 2 premierships being taken away from them, it really doesn't punish them because it was so long ago, that it kina means nothing, however being docked their points this season definitely does.

It explains clearly now why they were so successful for 5 years.

Why would they bother playing week to week from now on, knowing it is all for nothing.
And why the hell would the fans turn out to games..
I think they should just quit playing for the rest of the season, and just a have a bye instead..
I wonder if the broncos ever breached the salary cap with the number of elite rep players they've had over the years.

The competition and the game has been ruined..I wonder if the game can actually survive this big scandal.
The NRL can't seem to avoid controversy and negative news..How can it survive this one..
I bet more fans will turn away from the sport now.

As for the 2 premierships being taken away from them, it really doesn't punish them because it was so long ago, that it kina means nothing, however being docked their points this season definitely does.

NEVER!!!!


In all seriousness though, they really should just drop out of the competition for this season. Its pointless them turning up every week for pretty much no reason. The players risking injury and whatnot.

I wouldn't blame them if they decided to pull the pin until next year. The really stupid thing is that they can shape the eight by who they decide to play hard against. They have nothing to play for in 2010 so why bother?

Perhaps they could sell off Inglis? ;)
He does bugger all 8 games out of 10 anyway.
That should free up the $700,000 the storm is supposedly over. Then they could at least play for points from now on. As it stands why would fans now turn up for the rest of this year? It's pointless.

NEVER!!!!


In all seriousness though, they really should just drop out of the competition for this season. Its pointless them turning up every week for pretty much no reason. The players risking injury and whatnot.


hehehe....

I'm starting to wonder if the NRL could have handled this any differently with the punishement for the storm this year...
I think the dogs in 2002 had a few games left in the comp before they got docked their points if I'm not mistaken..
did they win any games after that?

I reckon they should get rid of the storm out of the NRL.
Their name has been severely tarnished..
get rid of the sharks too. I hate that team, and they're form is pathetic.
Introduce a side on the central coast, but DON'T name it the bears..I really didn't like that team..which means there needs to be 1 more side to make it an even comp.

And maybe re -introduce the storm a few years down the track.

sorry for being so stupid but what is salary cap? how are they cheating, what is happening to Melbourne Storm?

like Phil Gould mentioned on the footy show, they should just lose their points so far , and once they can prove they are under the salary cap, they should be able to accrue points from then on starting from now

sorry for being so stupid but what is salary cap? how are they cheating, what is happening to Melbourne Storm?

Salary cap is what it says it is, a cap on the total salaries a club is permitted to pay to its players. It is intended to keep the game equal. Can't remember exactly what the NRL cap is currently, I think it is around $4.2 million. The Storm have been consciously cheating the cap for 5 years, having been found to be $1.7 million over the cap over that period, so far.

They have been stripped of the titles they won in 2007 and 2009 in addition to the three minor premierships they have won over the past 4 seasons. They have also been stripped of their competition points this season and will not be permitted to accrue any points from this point on, i.e. they will finish the season on 0 poins regardless of how many games they win. They have also been fined $500,000 for the breach and will be required to pay back $1.1 million in prize money.

Harsh but fair penalties.

Deloitte have been commissioned to undertake a forensic investigation of Melbourne's accounts. The real focus will now turn to who knew. If any of the players knew I think they will cop hefty suspensions. As in years.

it's so bull**** the players didn't know, how can you not know your getting money on the side? the players should be banned and fined too

it's so bull**** the players didn't know, how can you not know your getting money on the side? the players should be banned and fined too

I'm inclined to agree with you mate. I think the players might have known. If it is proven that they did, what happens then? It is going to get really messy.

Bottom line - don't cheat the cap. You get caught, and you get ****ed.

NEVER!!!!


In all seriousness though, they really should just drop out of the competition for this season. Its pointless them turning up every week for pretty much no reason. The players risking injury and whatnot.

Well the players still have Origin and Australian jumpers to play for.

I'm inclined to agree with you mate. I think the players might have known. If it is proven that they did, what happens then? It is going to get really messy.

Bottom line - don't cheat the cap. You get caught, and you get ****ed.

Like Phil Gould said on the Footy Show last night, some of the players might have known they were getting a little extra money but I don't think that the players knew that they were way over the salary cap.

But the salary cap should be raised - look what the Strom did to ensure they kept their top players.

I wonder if Craig Bellamy knew something was going on.

The morning papers done here have come out all guns blazing.
Stick a fork in em, they're done.
Hostplus will today also announce they are pulling their sponsorship. Going by the radio callers this morning the fans feel cheated down here as well.

The morning papers done here have come out all guns blazing.
Stick a fork in em, they're done.
Hostplus will today also announce they are pulling their sponsorship. Going by the radio callers this morning the fans feel cheated down here as well.

Yeah, they are really going to struggle.

I hope the Broncs can pick up one or two players from the Storm. Blair would be good.

Yeah, they are really going to struggle.

I hope the Broncs can pick up one or two players from the Storm. Blair would be good.
I can see Inglis and Slater playing for other clubs next year. Unless they take a pay cut.

Yeah, they are really going to struggle.

I hope the Broncs can pick up one or two players from the Storm. Blair would be good.

I wonder how the Broncos could afford that without breaching their cap. Maybe their accountants are more cunning that their Melbourne counterparts.

In all seriousness, I agree with what Woftam suggested. You'd be mad to think that the Storm were the only team that were doing this. It would not suprise me at all if the Broncos ended up getting caught out too. I'm not just saying that because Dan is a diehard Broncos fan either.

Storm and Broncos have easily been the most successful clubs of the past decade. They have more than their fair share of marquee names.

I think that this might spell the end for the Storm. What is the point of the fans turning up to watch them play this season?

My condolences to you Woftam...

I wonder how the Broncos could afford that without breaching their cap. Maybe their accountants are more cunning that their Melbourne counterparts.

In all seriousness, I agree with what Woftam suggested. You'd be mad to think that the Storm were the only team that were doing this. It would not suprise me at all if the Broncos ended up getting caught out too. I'm not just saying that because Dan is a diehard Broncos fan either.

Storm and Broncos have easily been the most successful clubs of the past decade. They have more than their fair share of marquee names.

I think that this might spell the end for the Storm. What is the point of the fans turning up to watch them play this season?

My condolences to you Woftam...


The Broncos would be one of the last sides to be in breach of the salary cap. Not only do we not have that many players that would be on big money, but we have lost hundreds of thousands in players over the last few seasons without really replacing them.

I think the Storm are the only ones doing it. I don't see why its so hard to believe. They have been head and shoulders above the rest of the competition over that time period. I could accept that everyone was doing it if the playing field was still level, but its pretty clear it isn't.

Put it this way, if the Broncos were cheating the cap then the likes of Ben Hannant, Karmichael Hunt, Dave Taylor, Darius Boyd and Petero Civenociva would not have all left the club over the past few years.

I know all you Sydney boys don't like us because we are just plain better than you, but try to use some common sense.

Put it this way, if the Broncos were cheating the cap then the likes of Ben Hannant, Karmichael Hunt, Dave Taylor, Darius Boyd and Petero Civenociva would not have all left the club over the past few years.

I know all you Sydney boys don't like us because we are just plain better than you, but try to use some common sense.

Haven't the Storm lost some high profile players in the last few years too, including: Israel Folau, Matt King and Dallas Johnson ?

Haven't the Storm lost some high profile players in the last few years too, including: Israel Folau, Matt King and Dallas Johnson ?

Thanks Philfy. You're spot on.
We have also lost

Clint Newton
Antonio Kaufuisi
Ben Cross
Michael Crocker
Jeremy Smith
David Kidwell

To name just a few.

1 more statement for you Dan.
These 5 guys below were nobodies, probably Inglis too until the Storm developed them. The first 2 made their name at the Storm and then sold themselves to the highest bidder.

Matt Orford
Brett Kimorley
Israel Falou
Cameron Smith
Billy Slater

Yeah I do mate. I think it is highlighted by the fact that the club that was caught cheating has been BY FAR the best club in the competition over the past few years. Its not rocket science.

I understand you are disappointed mate, I would be beyond gutted. Come up here and join the Broncs fans, just about all of your players are Queenslanders anyways.

i agree, i bet the highest paid people in the whole league setup are the auditors and the only way to breach the cap is to be so devious that the consequences are disastrous.

I wouldn't blame them if they decided to pull the pin until next year. The really stupid thing is that they can shape the eight by who they decide to play hard against. They have nothing to play for in 2010 so why bother?

Perhaps they could sell off Inglis? ;)
He does bugger all 8 games out of 10 anyway.
That should free up the $700,000 the storm is supposedly over. Then they could at least play for points from now on. As it stands why would fans now turn up for the rest of this year? It's pointless.

They should have done it at the start of the season and they'd still have been stripped of the premierships.

LOL. I can't believe the spotlight immediately turns to the Broncos. Its typical of you guys down there. Look at our roster!! How in hell could we be over the cap? Where is the money? We barely even have any origin reps in our side anymore ffs.

Thanks Philfy. You're spot on.
We have also lost

Clint Newton
Antonio Kaufuisi
Ben Cross
Michael Crocker
Jeremy Smith
David Kidwell

To name just a few.

1 more statement for you Dan.
These 5 guys below were nobodies, probably Inglis too until the Storm developed them. The first 2 made their name at the Storm and then sold themselves to the highest bidder.

Matt Orford
Brett Kimorley
Israel Falou
Cameron Smith
Billy Slater

I take you're point, but I still disagree that other sides are necessarily rorting the cap.

Melbourne's problem obviously was that the salary requirements of their players just kept escalating. You said it yourself. Guys like Cronk, Inglis, Slater, Smith - went from nothing before the Storm to guys who could command the highest salary in the game. It obviously got out of control. Hell, even guys like Lima, Blair, White would fetch pretty massive salaries now.

None of this would've happaned if the NRL had a higher salary cap.

Just to add a new element to this debate, does anyone think the penalties are too harsh? Having sat down and sifted through all the material last night I am of the opinion that the NRL went way over the top.

Punish the individuals (management and players) responsible as harshly as possible? Sure. But I don't think the club deserves to have premierships stripped nor an entire season ruined, and potentially their club destroyed, over a $1.7 million breach over 5 years. Sorry, but that is excessive IMO. Initially I was told it was $1.7 million a year - but that figure over 5? Come on now.

Just to add a new element to this debate, does anyone think the penalties are too harsh? Having sat down and sifted through all the material last night I am of the opinion that the NRL went way over the top.

Punish the individuals (management and players) responsible as harshly as possible? Sure. But I don't think the club deserves to have premierships stripped nor an entire season ruined, and potentially their club destroyed, over a $1.7 million breach over 5 years. Sorry, but that is excessive IMO. Initially I was told it was $1.7 million a year - but that figure over 5? Come on now.
Yes, I believe it was harsh. Sure they won two premierships with players on their team they shouldn't had because they were over the cap. But to have two premierships and three minor premierships taken away is quite harsh. All the hard work put in by Craig Bellamy over the last few years for nothing.

And Parramatta, do they get they get the premiership for last year or is going to be left blank?

David Gallop and the others at the NRL obviously didn't think about the future of the Storm when they handed out the punishment.

Yes, I believe it was harsh. Sure they won two premierships with players on their team they shouldn't had because they were over the cap. But to have two premierships and three minor premierships taken away is quite harsh. All the hard work put in by Craig Bellamy over the last few years for nothing.

And Parramatta, do they get they get the premiership for last year or is going to be left blank?

David Gallop and the others at the NRL obviously didn't think about the future of the Storm when they handed out the punishment.

Manly and Parramatta will not be credited with the premierships, no.

Yeah, it is tough. Difficult to see how Melbourne can survive now, particularly given that I don't think the other clubs will be rushing to lend a helping hand.

It's the fans down here who now find out their club cheats to gain success, that will determine if the club survives or not.
I can only speak on a personal level, but on Foxsports last night they showed a 1999 state of origin replay. Normally I would have been glued to the television, but I switched over.
I'm not ready to watch a game of rugby league right now.

Gutted, pissed off, bewildered, I feel all of them.

It's the fans down here who now find out their club cheats to gain success, that will determine if the club survives or not.
I can only speak on a personal level, but on Foxsports last night they showed a 1999 state of origin replay. Normally I would have been glued to the television, but I switched over.
I'm not ready to watch a game of rugby league right now.

Gutted, pissed off, bewildered, I feel all of them.

Yeah, its tough.

Latest news - major sponsor ME Bank has pulled out. Host Plus expected to follow later today.

Chairman has tendered his resignation but maintains he knew nothing of the cheating.

It's a crazy situation the NRL has orchestrated with their salary cap system. As it stands, players you have followed all season end up leaving En Masse to other clubs or overseas clubs every 12 months. It's become a meat market & loyalty is nothing.
Bringing a young raw kid into your club & developing their talent to elite level is almost a complete waste of time under the current regulations. Because all your work will almost certainly be for the benefit of another team who did not put the time and effort into the young kid. I really don't think the powers that be in the NRL have any direction, or plans for the future of the game. Sometimes I think Gallop & Co are making it up as they go along.

Just to add a new element to this debate, does anyone think the penalties are too harsh? Having sat down and sifted through all the material last night I am of the opinion that the NRL went way over the top.

Punish the individuals (management and players) responsible as harshly as possible? Sure. But I don't think the club deserves to have premierships stripped nor an entire season ruined, and potentially their club destroyed, over a $1.7 million breach over 5 years. Sorry, but that is excessive IMO. Initially I was told it was $1.7 million a year - but that figure over 5? Come on now.

I agree with what Phil Gould was saying on the footy show last night. Destroying Melbourne's season for 2010 is the punishment I most have issue with. The NRL has acted too heavy handed in writing off the rest of the Storm's season. Stripping them of points for the rest of the season will be counter-productive at best and probably fatal for the club.

I have mixed feelings about the stripping of the premierships, especially being an Eels fan.

It's a crazy situation the NRL has orchestrated with their salary cap system. As it stands, players you have followed all season end up leaving En Masse to other clubs or overseas clubs every 12 months. It's become a meat market & loyalty is nothing.
Bringing a young raw kid into your club & developing their talent to elite level is almost a complete waste of time under the current regulations. Because all your work will almost certainly be for the benefit of another team who did not put the time and effort into the young kid. I really don't think the powers that be in the NRL have any direction, or plans for the future of the game. Sometimes I think Gallop & Co are making it up as they go along.

My opinion is that there needs to be a cap but it should be significantly higher. Gallop won't increase it significantly because it would mean hurting some of the Sydney-based clubs that have a lot of influence.

I agree with what Phil Gould was saying on the footy show last night. Destroying Melbourne's season for 2010 is the punishment I most have issue with. The NRL has acted too heavy handed in writing off the rest of the Storm's season. Stripping them of points for the rest of the season will be counter-productive at best and probably fatal for the club.

I have mixed feelings about the stripping of the premierships, especially being an Eels fan.

Why not dock them like 20 points and put them on -12? At least then they could have something to play for in terms of knocking off their deficit.

Yeah, its tough.

Latest news - major sponsor ME Bank has pulled out. Host Plus expected to follow later today.

Chairman has tendered his resignation but maintains he knew nothing of the cheating.

Looking pretty grim now isn't it, and to think that Brian Waldrom was going to chair the new Rugby franchise down there too.

Can anybody clarify what position News Ltd has in all of this. Do they own Melbourne?

Yeah, News Ltd are Melbourne's backers.


How about this:

St Kilda have firmed dramatically from $1000-1 to $5 second favourite on betting agency Betfair to win the AFL wooden spoon this year.

The dramatic change comes after similar betting patterns on Melbourne Storm for the NRL wooden spoon on Thursday, just hours before they were exposed for breaching the salary cap.

This **** is getting mental.

Why not dock them like 20 points and put them on -12? At least then they could have something to play for in terms of knocking off their deficit.

That would have been a more sensible option. I think the NRL has really shot themselves in the foot.

Yeah, News Ltd are Melbourne's backers.

How about this:

St Kilda have firmed dramatically from $1000-1 to $5 second favourite on betting agency Betfair to win the AFL wooden spoon this year.

The dramatic change comes after similar betting patterns on Melbourne Storm for the NRL wooden spoon on Thursday, just hours before they were exposed for breaching the salary cap.

This **** is getting mental.

Probably just an anomaly. Betfair is different to a normal bookies. Just think the commercial bookies aren't taking any chances. However:

"They are cleary now sensitive to any movement around St Kilda, which has been dragged into the scandal as former Storm CEO Brian Waldron worked for St Kilda in the past."

My opinion is that there needs to be a cap but it should be significantly higher. Gallop won't increase it significantly because it would mean hurting some of the Sydney-based clubs that have a lot of influence.

It's for this very reason that players are pissing off everywhere overseas. Mate make no mistake, this low salary cap philosophy they have in place will have long term ramifications.

I'm talking about this.

The NRL will be watered down with 50% or more of the games elite playing overseas. This will effect origin matches as well. Again watered down State of Origin is not acceptable.
English rugby league becoming the premier competition of the world because it can simply afford to pay the players their worth. This will eventually lead to England also becoming a massively strong country because they will be used to playing against the best week in & week out. Australia will fall behind. The AFL will also swoop as they have with Karmichael Hunt. If he is successful then the flood gates will open and the NRL just wont be able to stop it.

The NRL need to the raise the bar for the future, not lower it. They must find more sources of sponsorship money or an alternative income stream or be left behind by all the other codes.

It's for this very reason that players are pissing off everywhere overseas. Mate make no mistake, this low salary cap philosophy they have in place will have long term ramifications.

I'm talking about this.

The NRL will be watered down with 50% or more of the games elite playing overseas. This will effect origin matches as well. Again watered down State of Origin is not acceptable.
English rugby league becoming the premier competition of the world because it can simply afford to pay the players their worth. This will eventually lead to England also becoming a massively strong country because they will be used to playing against the best week in & week out. Australia will fall behind. The AFL will also swoop as they have with Karmichael Hunt. If he is successful then the flood gates will open and the NRL just wont be able to stop it.

The NRL need to the raise the bar for the future, not lower it. They must find more sources of sponsorship money or an alternative income stream or be left behind by all the other codes.

Why do people have the perception that this game doesn't make money?

It isn't a money thing, its a keeping equality amongst the clubs thing.

I think the independent commission will fix it. Hopefully under it the clubs will get a bigger share of the TV revenues and we can sustainably raise the cap significantly.

Just on another note, Host Plus just jumped ship.

Looks like it is all up to News Ltd to save the day.

Why do people have the perception that this game doesn't make money?

It isn't a money thing, its a keeping equality amongst the clubs thing.

I think the independent commission will fix it. Hopefully under it the clubs will get a bigger share of the TV revenues and we can sustainably raise the cap significantly.

I have the perception (wrongly or rightly) that the clubs are not getting good money from the NRL because there isn't enough to go around. Surely the tv rights should be a very good source of income for the clubs. If they aren't getting their fair wack then that needs to change.

Just on another note, Host Plus just jumped ship.

Looks like it is all up to News Ltd to save the day.

At least 3 sponsors gone, including the 2 major sponsors, effective immediately. I don't see how the club can continue, especially seeing they need to pay back prize money and the NRL fine.

On another note. If News limited writes the cheques then how can they not know what's going on? Or am I barking up the wrong tree here and don't understand?

it's so bull**** the players didn't know, how can you not know your getting money on the side? the players should be banned and fined too

I agree..
The players would have known, as I'm sure Matty Johns knew too, but as if he is going to say that on his show..

As for the players , imagine this..
they're at training..
Cooper cronk,'' right, inglis,how much $ u on, right slater what $ you on,cameron. $ ur on?finchy ...?
grab a calculator out.. add all 17 or so players incomes, and the players can figure it out for themselves if they are over the limit or not.
:D

At least 3 sponsors gone, including the 2 major sponsors, effective immediately. I don't see how the club can continue, especially seeing they need to pay back prize money and the NRL fine.

On another note. If News limited writes the cheques then how can they not know what's going on? Or am I barking up the wrong tree here and don't understand?

Mate the sums we are talking about here are not big. $1.7 million over 5 years? When you are running an NRL club? That's nothing. Easily covered up, as it was, by other expenses such as hospitality.

On your other point, it is my view that the clubs are not getting a fair share of the game's revenues. Pretty much everyone is of this opinion, which is why they are establishing an independent commission to run the game. The problem is the NRL basically selling the TV rights to the game to Channel 9 at below their market value because they have no incentive to get the best price.

I agree with what Phil Gould was saying on the footy show last night. Destroying Melbourne's season for 2010 is the punishment I most have issue with. The NRL has acted too heavy handed in writing off the rest of the Storm's season. Stripping them of points for the rest of the season will be counter-productive at best and probably fatal for the club.

I have mixed feelings about the stripping of the premierships, especially being an Eels fan.

I agree that the penalties have been a little too harsh..
The harsh punishment only magnifies the severity of the crime.
The NRL should have played the whole thing down a bit.Otherwise , they are helping drive the fans away at the same time.
The storm should be allowed to play for points this season!
The NRL has thrown the game into total disarray

I agree..
The players would have known, as I'm sure Matty Johns knew too, but as if he is going to say that on his show..

As for the players , imagine this..
they're at training..
Cooper cronk,'' right, inglis,how much $ u on, right slater what $ you on,cameron. $ ur on?finchy ...?
grab a calculator out.. add all 17 or so players incomes, and the players can figure it out for themselves if they are over the limit or not.
:D

This type of conversation would not have gone down.

People are not aware of how complex the player payment systems in the NRL are. I could understand that the players didn't know, I just think its probably unlikey.

I have the perception (wrongly or rightly) that the clubs are not getting good money from the NRL because there isn't enough to go around. Surely the tv rights should be a very good source of income for the clubs. If they aren't getting their fair wack then that needs to change.

maybe it's time we reduced the number of teams in the comp.get rid of the ones struggling financially,
it could be the only way the game can survive..

Sports fashion company Skins today ending its sponsorship of the team:

Skins was also forced into action by the revelations, with the company running an advertising campaign using the tagline “cheat legal” that suggested using the product was a way to cheat legally rather than using drugs (or taking secret payments.)

Ouch!

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i almost forgot this was a boxing forum

Yeah Phil I read that earlier. Funny **** indeed.

I'm honestly happy this has happened. It's the culmination of 15 years hard work destroying the game. At last we can do away with this fake team no-one cares about and restore the North Sydney Bears, the Balmain Tigers and the Western Sydney Magpies to the competition, and pretend News Ltd. never had anything to do with rugby league.

^^^ You are a thoughtless prick who has no sense of how fans are feeling down here.

I'm the 'thoughtless prick' who saw his favourite winter sport wrecked by dollar hungry shysters who thought they could improve on perfect by bringing in states and cities with no interest or history in the game at the expense of foundation clubs like the ones I mentioned before. I feel the same now as I did when the Western Reds, the Hunter Mariners and the Adelaide Also-Rans entered the league. Being treated like a mug punter with no brains. The "Here's your team, support it" mentality of the pricks who run the sport.

No amount of expansion - failed and fraudulent expansion we now know - can replace what was lost when News Ltd entered the sport and started trampling all over the game's roots, disrespecting the fans and destroying the fierce tribal rivalries of rugby league in Sydney. I can go on about this all night, about how the Melbourne failure is emblematic of the sports failures these last 15 years... but for now I won't.

You should understand this is the end product of the Superleague wars in the 90s. The failed nationalization of the sport, the wholesale disenfranchisement of Sydney fans who lost their clubs, the sanitizing and over-regulation of the game and now the exposure of fraudulent business deals of the prized Melbourne club.

Always note how they use the term 'football club' when a team is doing well, and 'franchise' when a team is failing. Tonight the Melbourne Storm is a 'franchise', not a club...

... Guess I just broke my promise.

Most of what you said is an entirely different subject.
If the game you love is confined to just 1 or 2 states then the game will stagnate or worse , go backwards. The elite players will go where they can get decent money (overseas) and the player rosters will be 2nd rate. Which it seems the current salary cap is designed to do. The AFL formerly only a Victorian competition, spread it's wings and became a National competition. Including successful Sydney & Brisbane franchises. Back then I thought exactly the same as you. Why are they setting up teams in states that have no interest? But it seems they knew better than me. The AFL has never been healthier & now are looking to move in to West Sydney & Gold Coast. People who think this is no danger to Rugby League because it is in it's heartland, have their head in the sand. I believe having a team in Melbourne is vital to the long term future of the game in this country. The AFL is coming and I don't believe the current NRL administration have any friggin idea how to fight back.
Forgive my bluntness, but I buy the teams clothing, go to it's games & financially support it only to find out I've been bent over like the other 10,000 to 15,000 Melbourne fans who turn up to support them every home game. Right now I just feel bloody numb and to have someone come on here and post that they are pleased it happened just did not sit right with me.

There I've had my rant. Night everyone.

you guys will be surprised to hear that there are over 100 NRL players playing overseas.
That's pretty disgusting..
Falau has been linked to AFL and Union now...and who knows where JT will head..?
Massive problem if you ask me, especially if the NRL isn't going to raise its salary cap.
And the melbourns super 15 side could be scanvenging the caucus of the Melbourne side.

First up, Col while I acknowledge some of the points you make, try and put your self in woftam's shoes. He supports the club. It is heartbreaking to have premierships taken from you. Nights you thought were among the best of your life, where you thought your team had genuinely reached the summit of the sport, to be stripped from you. I know I would be shattered if someone fronted up and told me that the 2006 Grant Final, which I spent pretty much all my money at the time on attending, was a fraudulent exercise. Show some sympathy.

Second. To woftam - I'm not sure a team in Melbourne is necessarily going to work, Mate, you guys have been head and shoulders above the rest down there for years and the response is still average. IMO it just clearly isn't a city that wants Rugby League. Personally I would be concentrating more on expanding in Queensland. For every guy that loves the Broncos there are at least three that despise them. There is plenty of room for expansion in Queensland no doubt.

Manly and Parramatta will not be credited with the premierships, no.

Yeah, it is tough. Difficult to see how Melbourne can survive now, particularly given that I don't think the other clubs will be rushing to lend a helping hand.

So when people look back at the 2007 and 2009 seasons, it will be left blank. Anyway 1.7 million over 5 years isn't much. It only averages to 340,000 each year.

But I heard a great idea on the radio yesterday, remove the salary cap and put in a points system instead where each player is given a certain amount of points at the start of the year based on how good they are but each team has to be under the same points limit. For example each club could be given 300 points and a player like Billy Slater could be worth 30 and a lesser known player at the club could be worth only 5, but as long as the total points of the club is under 300 the team can play each week. Then the clubs could pay their players whatever amount of money they wanted.

So when people look back at the 2007 and 2009 seasons, it will be left blank. Anyway 1.7 million over 5 years isn't much. It only averages to 340,000 each year.

But I heard a great idea on the radio yesterday, remove the salary cap and put in a points system instead where each player is given a certain amount of points at the start of the year based on how good they are but each team has to be under the same points limit. For example each club could be given 300 points and a player like Billy Slater could be worth 30 and a lesser known player at the club could be worth only 5, but as long as the total points of the club is under 300 the team can play each week. Then the clubs could pay their players whatever amount of money they wanted.

Pretty sure that idea has been tried elsewhere (NBL I think?) and it is basically a failure. Works well in principle, but not in application. All the problems would be around the subjectivity of the points system. Also, consider a guy like, I dunno Jeff Lima. Initially Lima would have been say a 5-10 point player under your system. What happens when he has a great season (as he did) and then the number of points attributed to him sky rocket, putting Melbourne over the points limit. Do you have to readjust your list every year? Do you only sign one year contracts?

The subjectivity of the point system is too great as well. Take Wallace. I think he's ****. He'd be lucky to get 10 points under my ratings, whereas I am sure there are rugby league experts out there who would give him say 20.

First up, Col while I acknowledge some of the points you make, try and put your self in woftam's shoes. He supports the club. It is heartbreaking to have premierships taken from you. Nights you thought were among the best of your life, where you thought your team had genuinely reached the summit of the sport, to be stripped from you. I know I would be shattered if someone fronted up and told me that the 2006 Grant Final, which I spent pretty much all my money at the time on attending, was a fraudulent exercise. Show some sympathy.

Second. To woftam - I'm not sure a team in Melbourne is necessarily going to work, Mate, you guys have been head and shoulders above the rest down there for years and the response is still average. IMO it just clearly isn't a city that wants Rugby League. Personally I would be concentrating more on expanding in Queensland. For every guy that loves the Broncos there are at least three that despise them. There is plenty of room for expansion in Queensland no doubt.


Again Dan
The NRL must take some responsibility for how the game is marketed down here. In fact it's not. Look up the average crowd figures and I'm sure you would see the Storms were more than holding their own. Yes winning contributes to that, but the die hard base was growing all the time.
It has to be a long term strategy. The AFL has succeeded in expansion why are the NRL failing? Poor planning & poor administration. Even now Gallop is strutting around as if he is some sort of hero in the media. Make no mistake, this is a dark period for the game and he should be trying to find a way for the game to recover.

Pretty sure that idea has been tried elsewhere (NBL I think?) and it is basically a failure. Works well in principle, but not in application. All the problems would be around the subjectivity of the points system. Also, consider a guy like, I dunno Jeff Lima. Initially Lima would have been say a 5-10 point player under your system. What happens when he has a great season (as he did) and then the number of points attributed to him sky rocket, putting Melbourne over the points limit. Do you have to readjust your list every year? Do you only sign one year contracts?

The subjectivity of the point system is too great as well. Take Wallace. I think he's ****. He'd be lucky to get 10 points under my ratings, whereas I am sure there are rugby league experts out there who would give him say 20.
Well, yes there are some problems to it. But if the NRL put some effort into it and fine tune it - it may work.

But unless the NRL raise the salary cap what else can they do from players going overseas etc?

Well, yes there are some problems to it. But if the NRL put some effort into it and fine tune it - it may work.

But unless the NRL raise the salary cap what else can they do from players going overseas etc?

Raising the salary cap is the best and IMO only option.

Let's all just settle down though. The game has been going fine with the odd player leaving. There is plenty of talent in the game. Let's not all overreact just because a few guys at one club were cheating the system.

Raising the salary cap is the best and IMO only option.

Let's all just settle down though. The game has been going fine with the odd player leaving. There is plenty of talent in the game. Let's not all overreact just because a few guys at one club were cheating the system.
Odd player leaving? I hear there's over 100 Aussies playing in England.

Odd player leaving? I hear there's over 100 Aussies playing in England.

So?

I haven't seen a decrease in the standard of the competition in the last 10 or so years. If anything the standard has risen.

So?

I haven't seen a decrease in the standard of the competition in the last 10 or so years. If anything the standard has risen.
I'm just saying...

Clubs can't compete with offers made by overseas clubs.

Dan you have got your head in the sand mate.
You are looking at life through Broncos coloured glasses.
Mate, your team is the most supported and secure team in the competition by far. The Broncos would be the last team in the competition to find supporter backing dwindling.

May I suggest you research membership figures & crowd statistics over the last couple of seasons from teams other than the Broncos? Then you may see that everything isn't rosy in the NRL right now, and they need to make long term plans and make them now. At this very moment the NRL is rudderless as far as long term vision for the game goes.

Brisbane Broncos attendances
<table class="wikitable"><tbody><tr><td>2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Broncos_2004)</td> <td>Suncorp Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suncorp_Stadium)</td> <td>28,667</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Broncos_2005)</td> <td>Suncorp Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suncorp_Stadium)</td> <td>30,331</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Broncos_2006)</td> <td>Suncorp Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suncorp_Stadium)</td> <td>31,208</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Broncos_2007)</td> <td>Suncorp Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suncorp_Stadium)</td> <td>32,868</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Broncos_2008)</td> <td>Suncorp Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suncorp_Stadium)</td> <td>33,426</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Broncos_2009)</td> <td>Suncorp Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suncorp_Stadium)</td> <td>34,587</td></tr></tbody></table>
Brisbane Lions Home attendances 2010
Round 1 - (Crowd: 29,201)
Round 2 - (Crowd: 36,780)
Round 4 - (Crowd: 33,323)

Pretty comparable even over past seasons. This is comparing against a super team like the Broncos.

Nothing to worry about? Yeah right.
I suggest you also research Sydney Swans numbers compared to their NRL counterparts.
One league administration is handing the other one it's arse in promotion, structure & financing. It's not hard to work out which one is on the wrong end of the ledger. Rugby League is a brilliant game and it should be doing better in it's market share. But it has no leadership or direction.

AFL has like the 3rd best average attendance in the world from all sporting codes just behind the Premier League and the NFL. They are also trying to land a television contract worth one billion for five years it's silly to compare them to each other because it's not even close

It's funny though cos after all the money going into the game and time spent on the training grounds the standard of matches in AFL games have dropped so much.

Dan you have got your head in the sand mate.
You are looking at life through Broncos coloured glasses.
Mate, your team is the most supported and secure team in the competition by far. The Broncos would be the last team in the competition to find supporter backing dwindling.

May I suggest you research membership figures & crowd statistics over the last couple of seasons from teams other than the Broncos? Then you may see that everything isn't rosy in the NRL right now, and they need to make long term plans and make them now. At this very moment the NRL is rudderless as far as long term vision for the game goes.

Brisbane Broncos attendances
<table class="wikitable"><tbody><tr><td>2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Broncos_2004)</td> <td>Suncorp Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suncorp_Stadium)</td> <td>28,667</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Broncos_2005)</td> <td>Suncorp Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suncorp_Stadium)</td> <td>30,331</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Broncos_2006)</td> <td>Suncorp Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suncorp_Stadium)</td> <td>31,208</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Broncos_2007)</td> <td>Suncorp Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suncorp_Stadium)</td> <td>32,868</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Broncos_2008)</td> <td>Suncorp Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suncorp_Stadium)</td> <td>33,426</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Broncos_2009)</td> <td>Suncorp Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suncorp_Stadium)</td> <td>34,587</td></tr></tbody></table>
Brisbane Lions Home attendances 2010
Round 1 - (Crowd: 29,201)
Round 2 - (Crowd: 36,780)
Round 4 - (Crowd: 33,323)

Pretty comparable even over past seasons. This is comparing against a super team like the Broncos.

Nothing to worry about? Yeah right.
I suggest you also research Sydney Swans numbers compared to their NRL counterparts.
One league administration is handing the other one it's arse in promotion, structure & financing. It's not hard to work out which one is on the wrong end of the ledger. Rugby League is a brilliant game and it should be doing better in it's market share. But it has no leadership or direction.

Crowd attendances have been increasing for the vast majority of NRL clubs over the past few years. Along with TV audiences.

well, the bellamy just had a media conference and he stated they wont be giving up..
whats the point really.
the fans are still out in force supporting and cheering them on too..

Crowd attendances have been increasing for the vast majority of NRL clubs over the past few years. Along with TV audiences.


Give me the numbers Dan.
Show me some data that shows rugby league is growing.

Give me the numbers Dan.
Show me some data that shows rugby league is growing.

TV ratings:

http://www.talkingfooty.com/tv_ratings_2010.php

Crowd attendances:

http://www.stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

Also it is common knowledge that the next TV deal to be signed by the NRL will be the biggest in the sport's history by a long way and will result in a significant increase in player salaries.


Look, I'm not disagreeing with you that the game could use better long-term direction, I'm just staying that it is still currently very very healthy.

We have lost plenty of huge names in recent years and it hasn't hurt us at all. Other superstars fill the void.

Hunt, SBW, Gasnier. At the time these guys were all right up there in terms of the biggest names in the game. They all left, nobody cared.

TV ratings:

http://www.talkingfooty.com/tv_ratings_2010.php

Crowd attendances:

http://www.stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

Also it is common knowledge that the next TV deal to be signed by the NRL will be the biggest in the sport's history by a long way and will result in a significant increase in player salaries.


Look, I'm not disagreeing with you that the game could use better long-term direction, I'm just staying that it is still currently very very healthy.

We have lost plenty of huge names in recent years and it hasn't hurt us at all. Other superstars fill the void.

Hunt, SBW, Gasnier. At the time these guys were all right up there in terms of the biggest names in the game. They all left, nobody cared.

I think as a result of those big names leaving, the quality of the game will diminish so slowly, you won't even notice it..

I think as a result of those big names leaving, the quality of the game will diminish so slowly, you won't even notice it..

Agree to disagree then.

The game will keep producing stars. It always has.

Dan - Any code losing a good portion of it's star players to another country or another code is not in good shape. Gasnier, Hunt & Sonny Bill should all be playing right here in the NRL. But the fact is if they want to set themselves up for the rest of their lives then they can't stay in the NRL.
That is a situation that they must fix right now.

Talk down here is AFL clubs may try to swoop on Billy Slater. The NRL can't let that happen.

Dan - Any code losing a good portion of it's star players to another country or another code is not in good shape. Gasnier, Hunt & Sonny Bill should all be playing right here in the NRL. But the fact is if they want to set themselves up for the rest of their lives then they can't stay in the NRL.
That is a situation that they must fix right now.

Talk down here is AFL clubs may try to swoop on Billy Slater. The NRL can't let that happen.

damn, all these other codes are scavenging of the caucus of the NRL.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sunday-telegraph/melbourne-storm-stars-got-boats-and-cars-in-salary-cap-rort/story-e6frewt0-1225857835965

As if the players didn't know they were over the salary cap.

Dan - Any code losing a good portion of it's star players to another country or another code is not in good shape. Gasnier, Hunt & Sonny Bill should all be playing right here in the NRL. But the fact is if they want to set themselves up for the rest of their lives then they can't stay in the NRL.
That is a situation that they must fix right now.

Talk down here is AFL clubs may try to swoop on Billy Slater. The NRL can't let that happen.

I don't agree with you.

The game has shown that it can lose top stars and still grow at a strong rate. The game continues to show year-on-year growth in popularity and, in the opinion of the majority of league experts, standard. This is despite the loss of "over 100 players" as you guys put it and several top stars, two of which were of a higher standing than Billy Slater.

Sure, if you get large numbers of stars going elsewhere (which has not happened and yet and, to be honest, hasn't been realistically threatened) you have a problem. This hasn't happened, and I don't think it will happen.

Funny how everyone is banging on about the death and decline of the game. I just watched a really entertaining game tonight out at Penrith, where the crowd was a six year record of just under 20,000.

As usual, people are overreacting and blowing everything out of proportion. Sure we need a relatively significant increase in the salary cap, which should kick in in 2012 with the scheduled pay increase the correspond with the new TV deal, but the game isn't in decline, it isn't under threat, and it isn't dieing. The standard of the games that are being played says I'm right. The number of people turning up to watch the games says I'm right. The number of people watching the game on TV says I'm right.

Just because a couple of idiots at one club did something stupid doesn't mean the game is falling apart. Try to get a little perspective.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sunday-telegraph/melbourne-storm-stars-got-boats-and-cars-in-salary-cap-rort/story-e6frewt0-1225857835965

As if the players didn't know they were over the salary cap.

I'm starting to think that they might not have. Footballers are not geniuses. Don't forget that.

Agree to disagree then.

The game will keep producing stars. It always has.

I agree with you Dan, League produces superstars on a more consistent basis than AFL or Union. At the moment there are 15-20 special players that make the game more than worth watching with another 25-30 young players that look to have the potential. Also there are some (like Folau) that are there but haven't even hit their prime.

and keep up your debate, i enjoy reading it!

do you guys know what the score is with the Dally M?

None of this would've happaned if the NRL had a higher salary cap.

NO DOUBT the Titans would be shredding many documents over the weekend and the last few days.

I wonder why you want the salary cap lifted???

NO DOUBT the Titans would be shredding many documents over the weekend and the last few days.

I wonder why you want the salary cap lifted???
To keep the top players here in Australia.

To keep the top players here in Australia.

There is only so many players that can go to England and Union.

How many extra paper shredders have the Titans got going over the long weekend?

I don't agree with you.

The game has shown that it can lose top stars and still grow at a strong rate. The game continues to show year-on-year growth in popularity and, in the opinion of the majority of league experts, standard. This is despite the loss of "over 100 players" as you guys put it and several top stars, two of which were of a higher standing than Billy Slater.

Sure, if you get large numbers of stars going elsewhere (which has not happened and yet and, to be honest, hasn't been realistically threatened) you have a problem. This hasn't happened, and I don't think it will happen.

Funny how everyone is banging on about the death and decline of the game. I just watched a really entertaining game tonight out at Penrith, where the crowd was a six year record of just under 20,000.

As usual, people are overreacting and blowing everything out of proportion. Sure we need a relatively significant increase in the salary cap, which should kick in in 2012 with the scheduled pay increase the correspond with the new TV deal, but the game isn't in decline, it isn't under threat, and it isn't dieing. The standard of the games that are being played says I'm right. The number of people turning up to watch the games says I'm right. The number of people watching the game on TV says I'm right.

Just because a couple of idiots at one club did something stupid doesn't mean the game is falling apart. Try to get a little perspective.

Honestly Dan. Your not working for the NRL are you?

This picture immediately comes to mind.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e64/wofty/storysahafmon.jpg

If you think crowds of under 20,000 are going to prop up the competition your kidding yourself. Relying exclusively on TV revenue is also very dangerous. TV rights bids would be far higher if the competition was National. The fact that if the Storm goes belly up, there again becomes a 2 state competition means the game has not grown out of it's own backyard in twenty years.
This administration can't move the game forward and Rugby League needs to find an administration that can.
It will stagnate at it's peril.

4 rounds in the AFL and the lowest crowd average is the North Melbourne Kangaroos averaging just over 23,000 fans per match. The highest is Carlton, Hawthorn & Collingwood all averaging over 54,000 fans per match.
One administration is expanding with no players leaving & the other is battening down the hatches trying to keep it's biggest commodity, it's players. I don't understand your everything is fine argument. My advise is to know thy enemy, because the AFL seem hell bent on domination and they have the brains & the resources to do it. Yes Western Sydney will be a failure for a few years, but the AFL will bank roll them until they get a foot hold. They will eventually get a foot hold. Tasmania will be their next & probably last frontier. Already prominent people in Tasmania are screaming out for their own team now. Last night at the Brisbane v Melbourne game at the MCG they had a Chinese caller calling the game in mandarin to the Chinese community. This is thinking outside the square and the sort of thing that brings new fans from not only Asian communities in Australia but even perhaps Asia itself in the long term.
Yes they play League overseas already but none of this is helping the NRL, in fact they help pinch it's players.
But like you said Dan, the NRL is just fine. Perhaps if we are both still around we can revisit this thread in 10 years.

There is only so many players that can go to England and Union.

How many extra paper shredders have the Titans got going over the long weekend?

What's up with the hate towards the Titans? Sure they have many good players on their squad but so do many other clubs.

What's up with the hate towards the Titans? Sure they have many good players on their squad but so do many other clubs.

You telling me the Titans aren't cheating the system???

Over 23,000 fans turned up to see the Storm today.
After what's happened they would have to breath a sigh of relief. I'll return, but only after I know the full story of what everyone's involvement was. Particularly the players.

Over 23,000 fans turned up to see the Storm today.
After what's happened they would have to breath a sigh of relief. I'll return, but only after I know the full story of what everyone's involvement was. Particularly the players.

Yeah, crowd of 24,000. Very good to see them standing by their team.

Also just under 40,000 at the Dragons-Roosters game and as I said Penrith's biggest crowd in 6 years last night.

But wait, the game is in full decline and is about to die isn't it?

Earlier in the thread you brought up the Sydney Swans. Their crowds are nothing special, particularly when you compare it to the number of people that turn out to watch League every week in Sydney and the surrounding area. Also, Sydney have been a successful AFL club. Relatively speaking, I don't think the support for the Swans has been any better than the support from Melbourne.

You said the game was "stagnating" and "declining". I showed you evidence of an increasing trend in crowd attendances and tv revenue, in addition to the continuing increasing standard of the games that are played. You have no real rebuttal for this mate, you just trot out your same meaningless arguments about "in the future you will see". Sorry mate, I don't see. And neither does anyone that knows the game.

Honestly Dan. Your not working for the NRL are you?

]

Last night at the Brisbane v Melbourne game at the MCG they had a Chinese caller calling the game in mandarin to the Chinese community. This is thinking outside the square and the sort of thing that brings new fans from not only Asian communities in Australia but even perhaps Asia itself in the long term.

But like you said Dan, the NRL is just fine. Perhaps if we are both still around we can revisit this thread in 10 years.


lol, ur joking?

Over 23,000 fans turned up to see the Storm today.
After what's happened they would have to breath a sigh of relief. I'll return, but only after I know the full story of what everyone's involvement was. Particularly the players.

That really was a big shock to me.
They still came out in droves.

I was expecting less than 4000

Yeah, crowd of 24,000. Very good to see them standing by their team.

Also just under 40,000 at the Dragons-Roosters game and as I said Penrith's biggest crowd in 6 years last night.

But wait, the game is in full decline and is about to die isn't it?

Earlier in the thread you brought up the Sydney Swans. Their crowds are nothing special, particularly when you compare it to the number of people that turn out to watch League every week in Sydney and the surrounding area. Also, Sydney have been a successful AFL club. Relatively speaking, I don't think the support for the Swans has been any better than the support from Melbourne.

You said the game was "stagnating" and "declining". I showed you evidence of an increasing trend in crowd attendances and tv revenue, in addition to the continuing increasing standard of the games that are played. You have no real rebuttal for this mate, you just trot out your same meaningless arguments about "in the future you will see". Sorry mate, I don't see. And neither does anyone that knows the game.

I don't need a rebuttal Dan. Your using spin.
The game isn't growing. If it is it's minuscule.
The Sydney swans are averaging 29,571 fans per game so far this year. Not too bad.

You seem to think I'm having a shot at the game itself which is just stupid because I love it. I'm saying the NRL have not moved the game forward like they should have.
They have a fantastic product but no friggin idea what to do with it or how to market it. So they figure they will do nothing & hope everything turns out fine.

Here ya go - Figures for last year

NRL Total Average
<table class="stg_table tborder sortable" id="sorttable4524"><tbody><tr class="alt2"><td>Brisbane</td><td>611,586</td><td>24,482</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Bulldogs</td><td>486,657</td><td>20,277</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Gold Coast</td><td>439,883</td><td>18,328</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>StGeorge Illawarra</td><td>431,442</td><td>17,976</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Souths</td><td>429,375</td><td>17,890</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>West Tigers</td><td>408,078</td><td>17,003</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Nth Queensland</td><td>402,676</td><td>16,778</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Parramatta</td><td>401,626</td><td>16,734</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>NZ Warriors</td><td>395,637</td><td>16,484</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Manly</td><td>353,362</td><td>14,723</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Newcastle</td><td>352,258</td><td>14,677</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Penrith</td><td>332,572</td><td>13,857</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Melb Storm</td><td>324,951</td><td>13,539</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Sydney Roosters</td><td>313,638</td><td>13,068</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Cronulla</td><td>297,976</td><td>12,415</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Canberra</td><td>296,667</td><td>12,361</td></tr></tbody></table>
AFL
<table class="stg_table tborder sortable" id="sorttable1053"><tbody><tr class="alt2"><td>Collingwood Magpies</td><td>
</td><td> 1,189,948</td><td> 54,089</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Carlton Blues</td><td>
</td><td>1,098,939</td><td> 49,952</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Essendon Bombers</td><td>
</td><td> 1,092,918</td><td> 49,678</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Hawthorn Hawks</td><td>
</td><td> 892,017 </td><td>40,546</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Richmond Tigers</td><td>
</td><td> 868,938</td><td> 39,497</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Geelong Cats</td><td>
</td><td> 826,142</td><td> 37,552 </td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Western Bulldogs</td><td>
</td><td> 781,066</td><td> 35,503</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> St Kilda Saints</td><td>
</td><td> 767,209</td><td> 34,873 </td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Adelaide Crows</td><td>
</td><td> 761,083</td><td> 34,595 </td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> West Coast Eagles</td><td>
</td><td> 722,553</td><td> 32,843</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Sydney Swans</td><td>
</td><td> 678,852</td><td> 30,857</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Brisbane Lions </td><td>
</td><td> 642,309</td><td> 29,196</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Melbourne Demons</td><td>
</td><td> 636,234</td><td> 28,920</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Fremantle Dockers</td><td>
</td><td> 631,004</td><td> 28,682</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> North Melbourne Kangaroos</td><td>
</td><td> 594,534</td><td> 27,024</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Port Adelaide Power</td><td>
</td><td> 562,964 </td><td>25,589 </td><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
I repeat this is not an AFL v NRL argument, I'm simply stating the NRL have a comparable product that isn't being promoted in a way that befits the game.

I don't need a rebuttal Dan. Your using spin.
The game isn't growing. If it is it's minuscule.
The Sydney swans are averaging 29,571 fans per game so far this year. Not too bad.

You seem to think I'm having a shot at the game itself which is just stupid because I love it. I'm saying the NRL have not moved the game forward like they should have.
They have a fantastic product but no friggin idea what to do with it or how to market it. So they figure they will do nothing & hope everything turns out fine.

Here ya go - Figures for last year

NRL Total Average
<table class="stg_table tborder sortable" id="sorttable4524"><tbody><tr class="alt2"><td>Brisbane</td><td>611,586</td><td>24,482</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Bulldogs</td><td>486,657</td><td>20,277</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Gold Coast</td><td>439,883</td><td>18,328</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>StGeorge Illawarra</td><td>431,442</td><td>17,976</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Souths</td><td>429,375</td><td>17,890</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>West Tigers</td><td>408,078</td><td>17,003</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Nth Queensland</td><td>402,676</td><td>16,778</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Parramatta</td><td>401,626</td><td>16,734</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>NZ Warriors</td><td>395,637</td><td>16,484</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Manly</td><td>353,362</td><td>14,723</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Newcastle</td><td>352,258</td><td>14,677</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Penrith</td><td>332,572</td><td>13,857</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Melb Storm</td><td>324,951</td><td>13,539</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Sydney Roosters</td><td>313,638</td><td>13,068</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Cronulla</td><td>297,976</td><td>12,415</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Canberra</td><td>296,667</td><td>12,361</td></tr></tbody></table>
AFL
<table class="stg_table tborder sortable" id="sorttable1053"><tbody><tr class="alt2"><td>Collingwood Magpies</td><td>
</td><td> 1,189,948</td><td> 54,089</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Carlton Blues</td><td>
</td><td>1,098,939</td><td> 49,952</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Essendon Bombers</td><td>
</td><td> 1,092,918</td><td> 49,678</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Hawthorn Hawks</td><td>
</td><td> 892,017 </td><td>40,546</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Richmond Tigers</td><td>
</td><td> 868,938</td><td> 39,497</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Geelong Cats</td><td>
</td><td> 826,142</td><td> 37,552 </td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Western Bulldogs</td><td>
</td><td> 781,066</td><td> 35,503</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> St Kilda Saints</td><td>
</td><td> 767,209</td><td> 34,873 </td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Adelaide Crows</td><td>
</td><td> 761,083</td><td> 34,595 </td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> West Coast Eagles</td><td>
</td><td> 722,553</td><td> 32,843</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Sydney Swans</td><td>
</td><td> 678,852</td><td> 30,857</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Brisbane Lions </td><td>
</td><td> 642,309</td><td> 29,196</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Melbourne Demons</td><td>
</td><td> 636,234</td><td> 28,920</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Fremantle Dockers</td><td>
</td><td> 631,004</td><td> 28,682</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> North Melbourne Kangaroos</td><td>
</td><td> 594,534</td><td> 27,024</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Port Adelaide Power</td><td>
</td><td> 562,964 </td><td>25,589 </td><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
I repeat this is not an AFL v NRL argument, I'm simply stating the NRL have a comparable product that isn't being promoted in a way that befits the game.

what the hell? the lowest avg for AFL is more for the highest avg for NRL.!

Also, the storm should be able to compete for the rest of this season, but have their accumulated points taken away, and once they can prove they are under the salary cap, should be able to compete again.
The fact that they can't accrue points for the rest of the year is totally ridiculous.

You telling me the Titans aren't cheating the system???

Well I wouldn't know since I don't work for the Titans. But I hope they're not and I wouldn't think the people running the club would be stupid enough to do such a thing since they've only been in the competition a few years.

The Storm are very lucky to have had a worse-than-toyota-cup Warriors team to play first game back after the **** hit the fan. They were terrible, absolutely terrible. The Storm had many players out and did not look likely in the first 20. A quality team like the Dragons or Titans would have ripped them apart.

The i-feel-sorry-for-Melbourne ref calls near the beginning didnt help, i counted 4 forward passes that led directly to their first two tries.

Well I wouldn't know since I don't work for the Titans. But I hope they're not and I wouldn't think the people running the club would be stupid enough to do such a thing since they've only been in the competition a few years.

I can tell you that they are. Seriously dude, how the **** did they get all of those players up there so quick.

Think about it.

I can tell you that they are. Seriously dude, how the **** did they get all of those players up there so quick.

Think about it.
The Titans could be under the salary cap, we don't know how much each player is paid.

The Titans could be under the salary cap, we don't know how much each player is paid.

It's not just paid monies. I can be property etc.

I really do hope the Storm appeal the points not being accrued penalty.
The NRL has ruined the game in trying to penalise the Storm.

How will the Storm survive? They don’t even make a profit. It all depends on News limited

They are a disgrace of a team; they have humiliated Melbourne’s prestigious sporting reputation. They had a new stadium built and this is what they go do. They ruined 4 seasons of NRL. The NRL did the right thing

How will the Storm survive? They don’t even make a profit. It all depends on News limited

They are a disgrace of a team; they have humiliated Melbourne’s prestigious sporting reputation. They had a new stadium built and this is what they go do. They ruined 4 seasons of NRL. The NRL did the right thing

well memberships have risen and they are close to doubling the gate plus there is the new stadium which should get in more people too

the media exposure is unbelievable and the media networks are now praising the storm it's all pretty weird really

its become all about melbournes pride now most people couldn't give two ****s about the club but still would like a team in the competition and the city feel hard done by from sydney, lets see how long this lasts

It's not just paid monies. I can be property etc.

A couple of weeks ago Scott Prince was accused of having a house built for him for free by a company which turned out to be false.

How will the Storm survive? They don’t even make a profit. It all depends on News limited

They are a disgrace of a team; they have humiliated Melbourne’s prestigious sporting reputation. They had a new stadium built and this is what they go do. They ruined 4 seasons of NRL. The NRL did the right thing

Well I personally hope that the Storm are still in the competition next year.

I heard on the news yesterday that Slater might go to the new Melbourne union team next year.

I don't need a rebuttal Dan. Your using spin.
The game isn't growing. If it is it's minuscule.
The Sydney swans are averaging 29,571 fans per game so far this year. Not too bad.

You seem to think I'm having a shot at the game itself which is just stupid because I love it. I'm saying the NRL have not moved the game forward like they should have.
They have a fantastic product but no friggin idea what to do with it or how to market it. So they figure they will do nothing & hope everything turns out fine.

Here ya go - Figures for last year

NRL Total Average
<table class="stg_table tborder sortable" id="sorttable4524"><tbody><tr class="alt2"><td>Brisbane</td><td>611,586</td><td>24,482</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Bulldogs</td><td>486,657</td><td>20,277</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Gold Coast</td><td>439,883</td><td>18,328</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>StGeorge Illawarra</td><td>431,442</td><td>17,976</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Souths</td><td>429,375</td><td>17,890</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>West Tigers</td><td>408,078</td><td>17,003</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Nth Queensland</td><td>402,676</td><td>16,778</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Parramatta</td><td>401,626</td><td>16,734</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>NZ Warriors</td><td>395,637</td><td>16,484</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Manly</td><td>353,362</td><td>14,723</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Newcastle</td><td>352,258</td><td>14,677</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Penrith</td><td>332,572</td><td>13,857</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Melb Storm</td><td>324,951</td><td>13,539</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Sydney Roosters</td><td>313,638</td><td>13,068</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td>Cronulla</td><td>297,976</td><td>12,415</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td>Canberra</td><td>296,667</td><td>12,361</td></tr></tbody></table>
AFL
<table class="stg_table tborder sortable" id="sorttable1053"><tbody><tr class="alt2"><td>Collingwood Magpies</td><td>
</td><td> 1,189,948</td><td> 54,089</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Carlton Blues</td><td>
</td><td>1,098,939</td><td> 49,952</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Essendon Bombers</td><td>
</td><td> 1,092,918</td><td> 49,678</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Hawthorn Hawks</td><td>
</td><td> 892,017 </td><td>40,546</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Richmond Tigers</td><td>
</td><td> 868,938</td><td> 39,497</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Geelong Cats</td><td>
</td><td> 826,142</td><td> 37,552 </td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Western Bulldogs</td><td>
</td><td> 781,066</td><td> 35,503</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> St Kilda Saints</td><td>
</td><td> 767,209</td><td> 34,873 </td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Adelaide Crows</td><td>
</td><td> 761,083</td><td> 34,595 </td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> West Coast Eagles</td><td>
</td><td> 722,553</td><td> 32,843</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Sydney Swans</td><td>
</td><td> 678,852</td><td> 30,857</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Brisbane Lions </td><td>
</td><td> 642,309</td><td> 29,196</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> Melbourne Demons</td><td>
</td><td> 636,234</td><td> 28,920</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Fremantle Dockers</td><td>
</td><td> 631,004</td><td> 28,682</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt2"><td> North Melbourne Kangaroos</td><td>
</td><td> 594,534</td><td> 27,024</td><td>
</td></tr><tr class="alt1"><td> Port Adelaide Power</td><td>
</td><td> 562,964 </td><td>25,589 </td><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
I repeat this is not an AFL v NRL argument, I'm simply stating the NRL have a comparable product that isn't being promoted in a way that befits the game.

The NRL has never been able to compete with the AFL on attendances. I don't see why this is a problem. The game has been strong for decades without being able to match it with AFL.

I just don't see any evidence for what you are saying mate. You are saying that top players are going to start pouring out of the game? I just don't see it. The game has shown that it can lose some of its top starts without any effect. This has been an issue even going back 10 years, and the game is a lot healthier now than it was back then.

I agree with you that there needs to be a reasonably significant increase to the salary cap to give the players a bigger share of the overall revenue generated by the game. Aside from that I think you are just being overly paranoid, which I guess is understandable given what has happened to your club and the likelihood that at least one of its top players will leave, most likely to a rival code.

Basically I think Rugby League has a very strong and established supporter base which I don't think will be threatened any time in the near future.

I can tell you that they are. Seriously dude, how the **** did they get all of those players up there so quick.

Think about it.

I don't think the Titans are necessarily over the cap. Not moreso than a few other sides anyway, like the Dogs for instance.

When you think about it a lot of the "big names" there are probably on there on relatively small packages. Guys like Preston Campbell and Mat Rodgers are nearing the end of their careers and were probably prepared to take smaller deals. Greg Bird was coming back from overseas with a tarnished reputation.

Then you gotta take into account that a few guys in there are pretty young and would be on relatively smallish deals as well. Guys like Mead, Gordon, Tomane. Toopi would have been cheap as chips.

I really do hope the Storm appeal the points not being accrued penalty.
The NRL has ruined the game in trying to penalise the Storm.

Load of crap.


It is unfortunate but there is nothing that can be done about it. Nothing. There is no way to have the comp this year with Melbourne in it.

The only feasible option is to say to Melbourne "get under the cap and you can play for points from here on".

This is what would happen:

The players would agree to take pay cuts to get them under the cap and then they would resume in the competition. (i.e. Smith would play for 300,000 this season as opposed to 550,000. Inglis, Cronk, Slater would take similar cuts. Maybe a few other guys drop 20,000 odd).

This would not be a fair outcome. The Storm would have built this squad by breaking the rules and would then essentially be allowed to maintain that squad, at least for this season, due to the fact that the players would have no real option but to take the above cuts.

Can't be done equally. Its a shame but its just the way it is.

The NRL has never been able to compete with the AFL on attendances. I don't see why this is a problem. The game has been strong for decades without being able to match it with AFL.

I just don't see any evidence for what you are saying mate. You are saying that top players are going to start pouring out of the game? I just don't see it. The game has shown that it can lose some of its top starts without any effect. This has been an issue even going back 10 years, and the game is a lot healthier now than it was back then.

I agree with you that there needs to be a reasonably significant increase to the salary cap to give the players a bigger share of the overall revenue generated by the game. Aside from that I think you are just being overly paranoid, which I guess is understandable given what has happened to your club and the likelihood that at least one of its top players will leave, most likely to a rival code.

Basically I think Rugby League has a very strong and established supporter base which I don't think will be threatened any time in the near future.

Of course it has a very strong and established supporter base, it's a game steeped in tradition that is tough & exciting. No argument there. because there is nothing wrong with the product, just the salesman.
What about growing the game down the track? What is the NRL's plan for branching out & expanding it's supporter base & bringing in new sponsors? What is the NRL's plan if News Limited decide to pull the pin? What is the NRL doing to establish junior leagues in states not traditional to the game in order to groom a new generation of followers in other areas? I can tell you the AFL is doing just that in Sydney & Brisbane with it's junior Auskick programs. The game of rugby league is a fantastic game, why do the powers that run it have no direction or plan for expansion?

Of course it has a very strong and established supporter base, it's a game steeped in tradition that is tough & exciting. No argument there. because there is nothing wrong with the product, just the salesman.
What about growing the game down the track? What is the NRL's plan for branching out & expanding it's supporter base & bringing in new sponsors? What is the NRL's plan if News Limited decide to pull the pin? What is the NRL doing to establish junior leagues in states not traditional to the game in order to groom a new generation of followers in other areas? I can tell you the AFL is doing just that in Sydney & Brisbane with it's junior Auskick programs. The game of rugby league is a fantastic game, why do the powers that run it have no direction or plan for expansion?

I'm no great fan of the NRL, but I think you are being a little harsh.

They have put a team in Melbourne. What else can they really do in terms of geographical growth? Maybe a team on the Central Coast? Possibly another Queensland team?

There is no potential to expand the game to the other States (i.e. WA and SA). This was demonstrated in the SuperLeague war. These States are just not Rugby League States and nothing will make them Rugby League States.

Right now I want the NRL to focus on consolidating what it has rather than expanding, and that means ensuring the viability of the existing franchises by signing a TV deal which the game deserves and giving the clubs their fair share.

I'm no great fan of the NRL, but I think you are being a little harsh.

They have put a team in Melbourne. What else can they really do in terms of geographical growth? Maybe a team on the Central Coast? Possibly another Queensland team?

There is no potential to expand the game to the other States (i.e. WA and SA). This was demonstrated in the SuperLeague war. These States are just not Rugby League States and nothing will make them Rugby League States.

Right now I want the NRL to focus on consolidating what it has rather than expanding, and that means ensuring the viability of the existing franchises by signing a TV deal which the game deserves and giving the clubs their fair share.

Disagree. You have to start somewhere and that means taking a hit for a while financially. The AFL will be doing just that in Greater Western Sydney. But in time they will succeed by promoting it properly & having junior development programs running so kids grow up knowing about the game and it's rules.

Disagree. You have to start somewhere and that means taking a hit for a while financially. The AFL will be doing just that in Greater Western Sydney. But in time they will succeed by promoting it properly & having junior development programs running so kids grow up knowing about the game and it's rules.

Fair enough mate we are just gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. I just don't see either the population base or the base level of interest in either Adelaide or Perth for a Rugby League team. I'd rather just focus on the East coast.

Picture proof of Melbourne Storm salary cap rort

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/picture-proof-of-melbourne-storm-salary-cap-rort/story-e6frf9if-1225858664342

I know Greg is no genius but it is getting hard to believe that he didn't think something odd was up with this. Is this type of **** common place? Getting given boats and whatnot?

There have also been rumours that players may have signed two different contracts. If that is proven then they are in deep trouble.

Just quickly as well woftam, those figures you quoted above are not correct. There is no way the Broncos recorded an average attendance of 24,000 last season.

Average home crowds 2009: 32,499

That is from the Broncos website.

Just quickly as well woftam, those figures you quoted above are not correct. There is no way the Broncos recorded an average attendance of 24,000 last season.

Average home crowds 2009: 32,499

That is from the Broncos website.

Dan - For both the AFL & NRL stats those figures represent attendances involving those clubs. Both home & away stats were included. Whilst this downsizes Brisbane's figures somewhat it also up scales some other clubs. So it still represents the average crowd for those clubs over the year.

Dan - For both the AFL & NRL stats those figures represent attendances involving those clubs. Both home & away stats were included. Whilst this downsizes Brisbane's figures somewhat it also up scales some other clubs. So it still represents the average crowd for those clubs over the year.

Ah fair enough mate, my apologies. Weird way to present crowd figures, not sure I have ever seen that before.

Just another aspect on this, the salary cap will definately be increased from 2012. Significantly. The current TV deal is worth $500 million for 2007-2012. The next deal, which will be agreed upon next year, is expected to be up around $1 billion.

Got the figures from another web site and basically copied & pasted.

Got the figures from another web site and basically copied & pasted.

Haha, yeah I didn't think you put them together yourself mate.

I'm far too dumb for that clever stuff mate. ;)

I suspect there is still a fair bit to come out on the Storm salary cap issue. Come to think of it, gifts is a good way to ensure your tax return doesn't give away extra income isn't it?

I suspect there is still a fair bit to come out on the Storm salary cap issue. Come to think of it, gifts is a good way to ensure your tax return doesn't give away extra income isn't it?

I'm still surprised that the NRL does not have the right to access players' tax returns. Seems ridiculous.

Did you catch the lashing Gallop was copping on the Channel 9 Footy Show from Gould and Co the other morning? I thought it was very harsh. As Gallop said, when people are prepared to go to that level of deceitfullness it is very difficult to catch them. Hiding files at their homes and ****, I mean, what can you do?

What is your opinion of the penalty for this season? I can't see any way around it unfortunately.

I'm still surprised that the NRL does not have the right to access players' tax returns. Seems ridiculous.

Did you catch the lashing Gallop was copping on the Channel 9 Footy Show from Gould and Co the other morning? I thought it was very harsh. As Gallop said, when people are prepared to go to that level of deceitfullness it is very difficult to catch them. Hiding files at their homes and ****, I mean, what can you do?

What is your opinion of the penalty for this season? I can't see any way around it unfortunately.

Me either
The only way to perhaps start playing for points again is to offload a big name player, but who else could afford them as well? Again it would mean the NRL would probably lose that player, which is what we don't want to happen. Another part of the problem is that Dallas Johnson's salary is being included in their cap even though he is playing overseas and earning big money there.

This is why I think Gallop jumped in too soon. He did not even have his boards blessing until after the penalties were announced publicly. He should have had a meeting of the full NRL board to discuss penalties & their repercussions. It would be a massive tragedy if the NRL loses a Billy Slater or Cameron Smith to an overseas club or worse another code. I think the NRL had to devise a way to ensure that by punishing a cheating club they didn't shoot themselves in the foot at the same time. They needed to have a strategy for every conceived possibility, rather than jump in willy nilly. I have no problem with the penalty, provided proof is there. But lets not lose more stars by dealing with it before thinking it through.

Me either
The only way to perhaps start playing for points again is to offload a big name player, but who else could afford them as well? Again it would mean the NRL would probably lose that player, which is what we don't want to happen. Another part of the problem is that Dallas Johnson's salary is being included in their cap even though he is playing overseas and earning big money there.

This is why I think Gallop jumped in too soon. He did not even have his boards blessing until after the penalties were announced publicly. He should have had a meeting of the full NRL board to discuss penalties & their repercussions. It would be a massive tragedy if the NRL loses a Billy Slater or Cameron Smith to an overseas club or worse another code. I think the NRL had to devise a way to ensure that by punishing a cheating club they didn't shoot themselves in the foot at the same time. They needed to have a strategy for every conceived possibility, rather than jump in willy nilly. I have no problem with the penalty, provided proof is there. But lets not lose more stars by dealing with it before thinking it through.

Big mail up here that Israel Folau is on the verge of signing with the Rebels. Reported that the deal could be worth up to $1 million per season.

Its a shame for us, but not a massive surprise.

I'm still surprised that the NRL does not have the right to access players' tax returns. Seems ridiculous.

Did you catch the lashing Gallop was copping on the Channel 9 Footy Show from Gould and Co the other morning? I thought it was very harsh. As Gallop said, when people are prepared to go to that level of deceitfullness it is very difficult to catch them. Hiding files at their homes and ****, I mean, what can you do?

What is your opinion of the penalty for this season? I can't see any way around it unfortunately.

WE 9gladly) get the NRL show live and i too thought Gould was way too strong and right inf ront of Gallops face! but nothing phases that guy, Gallop is the best head of any global sport imo.

On the penalty, they did the crime, now they do the time. Some people say the players shouldnt suffer for the admin's dodgy deeds but they have made a mockery of the cap and what it stands for.
Im a cricket fan also so as you probably know cricket doesnt give an inch in terms of bringing the game into disrepute and im happy to see the NRL doing the same.

WE 9gladly) get the NRL show live and i too thought Gould was way too strong and right inf ront of Gallops face! but nothing phases that guy, Gallop is the best head of any global sport imo.

Haha perhaps you should read this whole thread.
I beg to differ big time.

WE 9gladly) get the NRL show live and i too thought Gould was way too strong and right inf ront of Gallops face! but nothing phases that guy, Gallop is the best head of any global sport imo.

I don't agree with some of David's policies but he acted 100% correctly in this case. He acted quickly and he acted properly. He took the only viable course of action and took it ASAP.

Whether something could have been done to catch this earlier is another matter, but I don't think Gallop can take any blame for how he handled the outing of the scandal.

Big mail up here that Israel Folau is on the verge of signing with the Rebels. Reported that the deal could be worth up to $1 million per season.

Its a shame for us, but not a massive surprise.

I hope that's wide of the mark Dan. Another gun player leaving the game in this country would be very sad indeed.
Didn't Izzy leave the Storm because he wanted to go home & be with his family in Brisbane? Lol imagine how much the Storm would have been over the cap if Izzy stayed. He probably would have owned 3 cars, 2 boats & 5 3D televisions by now. ;)

Load of crap.


It is unfortunate but there is nothing that can be done about it. Nothing. There is no way to have the comp this year with Melbourne in it.

The only feasible option is to say to Melbourne "get under the cap and you can play for points from here on".

This is what would happen:

The players would agree to take pay cuts to get them under the cap and then they would resume in the competition. (i.e. Smith would play for 300,000 this season as opposed to 550,000. Inglis, Cronk, Slater would take similar cuts. Maybe a few other guys drop 20,000 odd).



Can't be done equally. Its a shame but its just the way it is.

Even Gus Gould, one of the wisest league identities, suggested the storm be able to play for points once they can prove they are under the salary cap in 2010.
What's the point of having them in the comp if they can't earn points.
Might as well have a 15 team comp.
It has definitely ruined the 2010 comp.
And whoever wins the comp, people will say but they didn't beat the storm.

I don't agree with some of David's policies but he acted 100% correctly in this case. He acted quickly and he acted properly. He took the only viable course of action and took it ASAP.

Whether something could have been done to catch this earlier is another matter, but I don't think Gallop can take any blame for how he handled the outing of the scandal.

I disagree. I think the punishment was inevitable, but I just don't think they thought about what the flow on might be down the track. What would have been the harm in delaying the announcement for say a week or two and coming up with a strategy to keep the games top players in the NRL.
We are losing them hand over fist and if the big 4 at the storm went on the market because they folded, who could afford them? There are many things to consider here.

For instance - Just say the Storm decided they couldn't keep going. I would not be against the bottom 4 teams in the NRL having a salary cap concession so they could fit one each of these guys into their team. Keep the players in the NRL at all costs. It's the players that sell the game after all.

Even Gus Gould, one of the wisest league identities, suggested the storm be able to play for points once they can prove they are under the salary cap in 2010.
What's the point of having them in the comp if they can't earn points.
Might as well have a 15 team comp.
It has definitely ruined the 2010 comp.
And whoever wins the comp, people will say but they didn't beat the storm.

Can you please outline a fair system by which the Storm could play for points this season? I am yet to hear one.

If there is a fair way to do it I would be in support of it being done.

I hope that's wide of the mark Dan. Another gun player leaving the game in this country would be very sad indeed.
Didn't Izzy leave the Storm because he wanted to go home & be with his family in Brisbane? Lol imagine how much the Storm would have been over the cap if Izzy stayed. He probably would have owned 3 cars, 2 boats & 5 3D televisions by now. ;)

LOL, yeah he probably would have been handed a few Harvey Norman vouchers.

Its not confirmed yet, but it is looking almost inevitable. There have been reports that he has been having family troubles as well and is keen to return to Melbourne.

It would be unfortunate, but no real loss to the game IMO.

I disagree. I think the punishment was inevitable, but I just don't think they thought about what the flow on might be down the track. What would have been the harm in delaying the announcement for say a week or two and coming up with a strategy to keep the games top players in the NRL.
We are losing them hand over fist and if the big 4 at the storm went on the market because they folded, who could afford them? There are many things to consider here.

For instance - Just say the Storm decided they couldn't keep going. I would not be against the bottom 4 teams in the NRL having a salary cap concession so they could fit one each of these guys into their team. Keep the players in the NRL at all costs. It's the players that sell the game after all.

I agree with you however I think that would be a matter to be considered when/if the Storm actually folded. No way you could let those players leave purely because the Storm went under. Obviously concessions would have to be made.

But that isn't what will happen. News Ltd will continue to prop the Storm up, the players will stay (to the extent that they can fit in the cap). I am still hoping the Broncos can pilfer one or two of the Storm guys who get released. I hear Tollman is probably going to be on the market. I would prefer him over Hannant to be honest.

Can you please outline a fair system by which the Storm could play for points this season? I am yet to hear one.

If there is a fair way to do it I would be in support of it being done.

they should lose all the points they have accrued.
which was 8 points, not including the win over the warriors, somehow find a way to come under the cap, by the time that happens, it could be a few more weeks.
Once they can prove it, they can start accruing points.
It would mean they are behind the comp leader by about approx.14 -16 points.
I think that's the fairest solution.
which would really make it hard for them to earn a high ranking finals spot.

How does this sit with you?

they should lose all the points they have accrued.
which was 8 points, not including the win over the warriors, somehow find a way to come under the cap, by the time that happens, it could be a few more weeks.
Once they can prove it, they can start accruing points.
It would mean they are behind the comp leader by about approx.14 -16 points.
I think that's the fairest solution.
which would really make it hard for them to earn a high ranking finals spot.

How does this sit with you?

It doesn't work. I wish it did it just doesn't.

Say they rule as you have just outlined and then this happens:

The highest paid Melbourne players all agree to take the necessary cuts this season (i.e. everyone reverts back to what they were paid according to the NRL-submitted contracts). This would mean pretty significant reductions for the big players, but they would still be on $400,000.

They get this done over the next 2 weeks. Feasible IMO. The players would want to play for competition points ASAP and would therefore have an incentive to do that.

Now say, with that exact same team, they manage to win 80% of the rest of their games, they get into the finals and then they win the comp.

How would you feel about that? A club basically rorts the system to compile an illegal football team which is then made legal only because the players had virtually no other viable alternative, and won the comp. Basically, a team has cheated, everyone knew about it, and they were still allowed to win the comp.

It just won't work.

It doesn't work. I wish it did it just doesn't.

Say they rule as you have just outlined and then this happens:

The highest paid Melbourne players all agree to take the necessary cuts this season (i.e. everyone reverts back to what they were paid according to the NRL-submitted contracts). This would mean pretty significant reductions for the big players, but they would still be on $400,000.

They get this done over the next 2 weeks. Feasible IMO. The players would want to play for competition points ASAP and would therefore have an incentive to do that.

Now say, with that exact same team, they manage to win 80% of the rest of their games, they get into the finals and then they win the comp.

How would you feel about that? A club basically rorts the system to compile an illegal football team which is then made legal only because the players had virtually no other viable alternative, and won the comp. Basically, a team has cheated, everyone knew about it, and they were still allowed to win the comp.

It just won't work.

I doubt they can win the comp this year with the points they would have lost.The other teams would have had a big head start on them.

I doubt they can win the comp this year with the points they would have lost.The other teams would have had a big head start on them.

I don't see why they couldn't. If they could make the 8 they would probably be favourites or near favourites. Plus you can't take the risk.

Just imagine if they went on a tear and won it. It would essentially mean they had won the competition with an illegal football team. Basically by cheating.

There would be an uproar, it would be a farce. While the ruling was unfortunate it was the only thing that could protect the integrity of the game.

Don't blame the NRL, like Phil Gould and the other misguided individuals are, blame the ****tards at the Storm (whoever they are) who thought they could cheat the system and get away with it.

man i wish i put my all my money on the storm to get the wooden spoon.....like the rest of those bastards who obviously had the inside word.


anyhow leagues loss is rugby's gain. Expect slater to sign with the melbourne rebels...they are throwing $$$million a season his way...can't see him backing out of that.

man i wish i put my all my money on the storm to get the wooden spoon.....like the rest of those bastards who obviously had the inside word.


anyhow leagues loss is rugby's gain. Expect slater to sign with the melbourne rebels...they are throwing $$$million a season his way...can't see him backing out of that.

the NRL wants the names of the all the punters who put money on the Storm before the scandal broke out.

The Melbourne Storm are overpaying some of their players?

If so why is that a problem?

I could understand if they were caught tampering in order to bring free agents to their team or something, but if they are overpaying players within the organization I don't see the big deal

That's one thing that doesn't sit well with some media down here. The Storm have not brought any big name players to the club. The big 4 are all products of the Storm's talent spotting & development & coaching programs. They already developed Brett Kimorley & Matt Orford into the players they are now, only to sell themselves to the highest bidder once they had made a name for themselves. Cooper Cronk was an understudy to Orford and promoted to first grade once Orford left. Cam Smith was knocked back by the Broncos and Billy Slater was given a shot after trying his hand at being a track work jockey. It's not like the Storm pilfered other clubs of their best talent, but now other clubs will be able to do just that to the storm. There should be some sort of concession for players a team has developed that have not been with other NRL clubs. At the moment players are just part of a meat market & there isn't any loyalty from club or player because it isn't possible to stick together under the current caps & rules.

That's one thing that doesn't sit well with some media down here. The Storm have not brought any big name players to the club. The big 4 are all products of the Storm's talent spotting & development & coaching programs. They already developed Brett Kimorley & Matt Orford into the players they are now, only to sell themselves to the highest bidder once they had made a name for themselves. Cooper Cronk was an understudy to Orford and promoted to first grade once Orford left. Cam Smith was knocked back by the Broncos and Billy Slater was given a shot after trying his hand at being a track work jockey. It's not like the Storm pilfered other clubs of their best talent, but now other clubs will be able to do just that to the storm. There should be some sort of concession for players a team has developed that have not been with other NRL clubs. At the moment players are just part of a meat market & there isn't any loyalty from club or player because it isn't possible to stick together under the current caps & rules.

Yeah, I agree, but it is a fact of life and it doesn't justify cheating. Everyone has to play under those rules.

The worst thing for the Melbourne players is that they probably would have won two premierships over the past 4 seasons without cheating. It was just the arrogance of those running the organisation that have ruined them.

The Melbourne Storm are overpaying some of their players?

If so why is that a problem?

I could understand if they were caught tampering in order to bring free agents to their team or something, but if they are overpaying players within the organization I don't see the big deal

It is cheating.

There is a salary cap. I think it is $4.2 million right now. This season the Storm would have spent $4.9 million on their playing roster while all other clubs (provided noone else is rorting) are capped at $4.2 million. This gives the Storm an unfair advantage.

The Melbourne Storm are overpaying some of their players?

If so why is that a problem?

I could understand if they were caught tampering in order to bring free agents to their team or something, but if they are overpaying players within the organization I don't see the big deal

An NRL team cannot spend more than the salary cap on their player roster. This is cheating and the lengths they went to to hide their cheating makes it 10 times worse.
Also the clubs have to tell the NRL about any other deals players may have with sponsors or anything given to the player by the club (like sponsor vouchers or cars etc)

My team the Warriors (i know, i know, they are crap without The Beast!) spent over the cap a few years ago. They declared this to the NRL and started the season on negative 4 points and fair enough. Now, had the Storm declared they were over the cap a similar penalty may have been handed down but they decided to try and get away with it so they get what they get.

An NRL team cannot spend more than the salary cap on their player roster. This is cheating and the lengths they went to to hide their cheating makes it 10 times worse.
Also the clubs have to tell the NRL about any other deals players may have with sponsors or anything given to the player by the club (like sponsor vouchers or cars etc)

My team the Warriors (i know, i know, they are crap without The Beast!) spent over the cap a few years ago. They declared this to the NRL and started the season on negative 4 points and fair enough. Now, had the Storm declared they were over the cap a similar penalty may have been handed down but they decided to try and get away with it so they get what they get.

It is also the fact that they were doing it for 5 years.

From what I am reading I am starting to feel some sympathy for Hanson, the guy who took over from Waldron as CEO. From the sounds of it he was actively trying to reduce the extent to which they were over the cap. Not sure if he knew about it all when Waldron was running the show, but that would have been a pretty tough situation to come into.

It is also the fact that they were doing it for 5 years.

From what I am reading I am starting to feel some sympathy for Hanson, the guy who took over from Waldron as CEO. From the sounds of it he was actively trying to reduce the extent to which they were over the cap. Not sure if he knew about it all when Waldron was running the show, but that would have been a pretty tough situation to come into.

Yeah i cant see Hanson knowing about it before he took the job on, only after and since he took over he's been doing a good job of reversing it (so ive heard!) Feel a bit sorry for him but not Waldron.
Just lost the Rebels job he must have known was in jeopardy if the Storm **** came out (i think he knew it was going to get found and thats why he left, presumably) but i dont know why he took the Rebels job thinking he could keep it if the **** hit the fan.

It will be interesting once more digging has been done to find out exactly what the players knew or didnt know. They can say they didnt know specifically what each other was on but when they get handouts above and beyond what their contracted worth was they must have been suspicious.
Then again, what could you do? Someone wants to give you something, you take it i guess.
I also heard that the players get paid every couple of months, not weekly or fortnightly like most of us so a large sum like that going into the account makes it easy for the club to top it up a bit without the player noticing much change.

I was listening to the radio this morning and they raised an interesting scenario. What happens if there is another club who is found to be cheating the cap, but did not win a premiership in that time. For Brentley's sake, lets say it was the Gold Coast Titans. :P
How can the penalties be the same for both clubs?
One loses 2 premierships & points while the other would just lose points. Is that how it would work?

On the other point. I find it hard to believe that Waldron was acting alone in rorting the cap. It looks like he is being made a scapegoat but I guess we will find out in time.

It is cheating.

There is a salary cap. I think it is $4.2 million right now. This season the Storm would have spent $4.9 million on their playing roster while all other clubs (provided noone else is rorting) are capped at $4.2 million. This gives the Storm an unfair advantage.

I don't quite understand.

Did they bring in new players, or did they basically give their own players a pay raise?

If they went over the salary cap bringing in Free Agents then yeah I'd see a problem in that. If they gave their very own guys that they drafted and developed, extra money I wouldn't see what's wrong with that

I don't quite understand.

Did they bring in new players, or did they basically give their own players a pay raise?

If they went over the salary cap bringing in Free Agents then yeah I'd see a problem in that. If they gave their very own guys that they drafted and developed, extra money I wouldn't see what's wrong with that

Well, the whole point of the salary cap is to maintain equality between clubs. People are obsessed with the salary cap and what it represents.

Obviously the point you raise is the main argument against the cap, and it is particularly relevant in this case given that the Storm did develop pretty much all of their top stars.

Having said that, its still cheating. Other teams have had to let players they brought through go due to salary cap constraints. It isn't fair that the Storm get to keep them all by spending more than what is permitted under the rules.

So yeah, its cheating. You can't do it and they knew that.

Yeah i cant see Hanson knowing about it before he took the job on, only after and since he took over he's been doing a good job of reversing it (so ive heard!) Feel a bit sorry for him but not Waldron.
Just lost the Rebels job he must have known was in jeopardy if the Storm **** came out (i think he knew it was going to get found and thats why he left, presumably) but i dont know why he took the Rebels job thinking he could keep it if the **** hit the fan.

It will be interesting once more digging has been done to find out exactly what the players knew or didnt know. They can say they didnt know specifically what each other was on but when they get handouts above and beyond what their contracted worth was they must have been suspicious.
Then again, what could you do? Someone wants to give you something, you take it i guess.
I also heard that the players get paid every couple of months, not weekly or fortnightly like most of us so a large sum like that going into the account makes it easy for the club to top it up a bit without the player noticing much change.

Just FYI, Waldron resigned from the Rebels after the Storm **** hit the fan. Obviously he took the job hoping that it wouldn't.

I was listening to the radio this morning and they raised an interesting scenario. What happens if there is another club who is found to be cheating the cap, but did not win a premiership in that time. For Brentley's sake, lets say it was the Gold Coast Titans. :P
How can the penalties be the same for both clubs?
One loses 2 premierships & points while the other would just lose points. Is that how it would work?

On the other point. I find it hard to believe that Waldron was acting alone in rorting the cap. It looks like he is being made a scapegoat but I guess we will find out in time.

Well, they would get fined and banned from the comp for the season I guess.

I don't find that scenario interesting at all. Consider two drug cheats at the Olympics, one wins a gold medal the other finishes fourth. The gold medalist gets his medal stripped while the fourth placed finisher gets disqualified (i.e. loses virtually nothing). There is nothing "unfair" about it. You can only lose what you have accumulated.

I will say one thing that is starting to annoy me slightly about the reaction of the Storm player group and Bellamy. They are almost implying in their comments that they don't think they deserved to have those premierships stripped. That is the wrong attitude to take and won't win them any fans. While noone is blaming the players the bottom line is that the club rorted the cap and cheated the game. The premierships were deservedly stripped, end of.

As I understand the top guys from News Ltd have set the playing group and the coaching staff straight on this issue. It seems the players wanted to contest the NRL's decision, News Ltd said no. They also said any player that knew of the rorting would not be paid and likely sacked.

Well, they would get fined and banned from the comp for the season I guess.

I don't find that scenario interesting at all. Consider two drug cheats at the Olympics, one wins a gold medal the other finishes fourth. The gold medalist gets his medal stripped while the fourth placed finisher gets disqualified (i.e. loses virtually nothing). There is nothing "unfair" about it. You can only lose what you have accumulated.

I will say one thing that is starting to annoy me slightly about the reaction of the Storm player group and Bellamy. They are almost implying in their comments that they don't think they deserved to have those premierships stripped. That is the wrong attitude to take and won't win them any fans. While noone is blaming the players the bottom line is that the club rorted the cap and cheated the game. The premierships were deservedly stripped, end of.

As I understand the top guys from News Ltd have set the playing group and the coaching staff straight on this issue. It seems the players wanted to contest the NRL's decision, News Ltd said no. They also said any player that knew of the rorting would not be paid and likely sacked.

From what news we got down here. News Limited said they would not finance the legal fees if they wanted to appeal to the courts. So in effect the players & coach would have to foot the legal bill if they wanted to take the matter further.

You can't expect the Storm players to have any other reaction but being peeved if they didn't know they were over the cap. If they did, then they don't have a leg to stand on. We don't know which is correct yet, so keep an open mind until we do.

Everyone has a different angle you need to take into account.
Players, Coaches, Administration, Opposition players, Opposition coaches, Storm Fans, Opposing fans, sponsors. It's complicated. Everyone has an opinion and most make a good argument. That's why I thought Gallop could have included his board & thought out every scenario first. In the scheme of things it would only have taken another week or two. If all players remain in the NRL & the Storm are still up and running then I guess they will have done well. Again time will tell.

I was listening to the radio this morning and they raised an interesting scenario. What happens if there is another club who is found to be cheating the cap, but did not win a premiership in that time. For Brentley's sake, lets say it was the Gold Coast Titans. :P
How can the penalties be the same for both clubs?
One loses 2 premierships & points while the other would just lose points. Is that how it would work?

On the other point. I find it hard to believe that Waldron was acting alone in rorting the cap. It looks like he is being made a scapegoat but I guess we will find out in time.

Hmm good point but i think that because they won the premierships with what was essentially an illegal team they had to be stripped.

Yeah, I agree, but it is a fact of life and it doesn't justify cheating. Everyone has to play under those rules.

The worst thing for the Melbourne players is that they probably would have won two premierships over the past 4 seasons without cheating. It was just the arrogance of those running the organisation that have ruined them.

how can you be sure they still would have won if they were under the cap??

Yeah, I agree, but it is a fact of life and it doesn't justify cheating. Everyone has to play under those rules.

The worst thing for the Melbourne players is that they probably would have won two premierships over the past 4 seasons without cheating. It was just the arrogance of those running the organisation that have ruined them.

An NRL team cannot spend more than the salary cap on their player roster. This is cheating and the lengths they went to to hide their cheating makes it 10 times worse.
Also the clubs have to tell the NRL about any other deals players may have with sponsors or anything given to the player by the club (like sponsor vouchers or cars etc)

My team the Warriors (i know, i know, they are crap without The Beast!) spent over the cap a few years ago. They declared this to the NRL and started the season on negative 4 points and fair enough. Now, had the Storm declared they were over the cap a similar penalty may have been handed down but they decided to try and get away with it so they get what they get.

I had no idea about this..

how can you be sure they still would have won if they were under the cap??

LOL, you make me laugh sometimes mate. I said "they probably would have won two premierships".

Obviously its impossible to be sure, I just think it is probably pretty likely.

Here is a pretty good summation of what I think about the issue from a guy who knows as much about the game as anyone.

Wests Tigers and Australia coach Tim Sheens says the threat posed by rugby league's rival codes is "overstated".

Sheens' comments come amid much speculation that Brisbane centre Israel Folau will leave the Broncos at the end of the season and switch codes to join new Super rugby franchise Melbourne Rebels.

Folau has been given a deadline of tomorrow to inform the Broncos whether he will activate an extra two-year option written into his contract, or head to the Rebels where he could possibly earn more than $1 million a season.

The threat of NRL players defecting to other codes has also been heightened by the fact Melbourne Storm is set to lose several of their star players in light of the club's salary cap scandal.

Sheens says the history of players making a code switch illustrates that rugby league rarely skips a beat.

He also highlighted that former Bronco and Queensland State of Origin star Karmichael Hunt has yet to make his debut in the AFL ranks.

"I'm not worried about rugby union, I think that's overstated by media and by people generally," Sheens said.

"We've lost a few players and we've overcome it.

"It's a talking point at the time, half of them come back, the next young bloke comes through.

"AFL have taken one and all of a sudden they're one of the major predators - they've taken one and he's yet to be successful."

Here is a pretty good summation of what I think about the issue from a guy who knows as much about the game as anyone.

Wests Tigers and Australia coach Tim Sheens says the threat posed by rugby league's rival codes is "overstated".

Sheens' comments come amid much speculation that Brisbane centre Israel Folau will leave the Broncos at the end of the season and switch codes to join new Super rugby franchise Melbourne Rebels.

Folau has been given a deadline of tomorrow to inform the Broncos whether he will activate an extra two-year option written into his contract, or head to the Rebels where he could possibly earn more than $1 million a season.

The threat of NRL players defecting to other codes has also been heightened by the fact Melbourne Storm is set to lose several of their star players in light of the club's salary cap scandal.

Sheens says the history of players making a code switch illustrates that rugby league rarely skips a beat.

He also highlighted that former Bronco and Queensland State of Origin star Karmichael Hunt has yet to make his debut in the AFL ranks.

"I'm not worried about rugby union, I think that's overstated by media and by people generally," Sheens said.

"We've lost a few players and we've overcome it.

"It's a talking point at the time, half of them come back, the next young bloke comes through.

"AFL have taken one and all of a sudden they're one of the major predators - they've taken one and he's yet to be successful."

I totally disagree.
Falau might leave, slater might leave, and JT might leave..as have other big name players.

I totally disagree.
Falau might leave, slater might leave, and JT might leave..as have other big name players.

The thing is, big name players have left in the past and it hasn't hurt the game one little bit.

So Folau will almost definately leave. So what? It won't make one bit of difference.

It is highly unlikely that any other massive names will leave the code as well. If they are going to leave where will they go? Australian Rugby is out as the Rebels are the only ones in the mix and them signing Folau would rule them out. It would pretty much be AFL, and I highly doubt any of those guys are going to AFL.

It is being massively overhyped, people are massively overreacting as they always do.

The thing is, big name players have left in the past and it hasn't hurt the game one little bit.

So Folau will almost definately leave. So what? It won't make one bit of difference.

It is highly unlikely that any other massive names will leave the code as well. If they are going to leave where will they go? Australian Rugby is out as the Rebels are the only ones in the mix and them signing Folau would rule them out. It would pretty much be AFL, and I highly doubt any of those guys are going to AFL.

It is being massively overhyped, people are massively overreacting as they always do.

Lets see.
Karmichael Hunt, Sonny Bill Williams, Mark Gasnier & now probably Israel Falou. They are just the big names that have left the NRL because of the constricted salary cap. There are copious amounts of other lower tier players that have left for England to chase bigger dollars. Matt Orford, Matt King, Dallas Johnson Etc.

Look at it this way Dan
If you have young kids who are talented at 15 or 16 years of age that excel at many sports, how many will pick playing in the NRL when you can make 3 times as much playing AFL or Union or even cricket with the way the IPL throws money at players? Not many are going to pick League and not many would be advised to do so by their managers. The reality for those kids is that you can make big money from Rugby League, but you have to live overseas to do so.

Lets see.
Karmichael Hunt, Sonny Bill Williams, Mark Gasnier & now probably Israel Falou. They are just the big names that have left the NRL because of the constricted salary cap. There are copious amounts of other lower tier players that have left for England to chase bigger dollars. Matt Orford, Matt King, Dallas Johnson Etc.

Look at it this way Dan
If you have young kids who are talented at 15 or 16 years of age that excel at many sports, how many will pick playing in the NRL when you can make 3 times as much playing AFL or Union or even cricket with the way the IPL throws money at players? Not many are going to pick League and not many would be advised to do so by their managers. The reality for those kids is that you can make big money from Rugby League, but you have to live overseas to do so.

You can throw in the likes of Wendell Sailor and Lote Tuquiri I think. They were big names when they lift.

Mate, this isn't a new debate, its been going on for a decade. And you know what has happened over that time? There have been more young players coming through the game, at a younger age and at a higher standard.

I'm basing my view of the world on actual events. You are basing it on pure paranoia.

I am absolutely gobsmacked at your attitude to the game losing it's biggest asset, it's players. Yes there will always be good quality youth coming through, but what's the point when they aren't playing in the NRL by the time they are in their mid twenties? That's what will happen on a consistent basis if the NRL don't catch up to the other sports. You are calling me paranoid because I have layed out the facts? None of my data is wrong, your only comeback is "the game will be fine." I'm being paranoid.
That's exactly the attitude the silly pricks heading up the NRL have. But all that philosophy is doing is watering down the talent that you and I see on the park every weekend. Man I seriously hope most of the fans up there don't think along the same lines as you. If that is the general consensus then the game will never ever grow. There is a real problem here & the attitude is simply to let whatever happens happen. As I said I'm gobsmacked.
We pay good money to attend and have a right to see the very best players the game can produce in this country week in & week out.

I am absolutely gobsmacked at your attitude to the game losing it's biggest asset, it's players. Yes there will always be good quality youth coming through, but what's the point when they aren't playing in the NRL by the time they are in their mid twenties? That's what will happen on a consistent basis if the NRL don't catch up to the other sports. You are calling me paranoid because I have layed out the facts? None of my data is wrong, your only comeback is "the game will be fine." I'm being paranoid.
That's exactly the attitude the silly pricks heading up the NRL have. But all that philosophy is doing is watering down the talent that you and I see on the park every weekend. Man I seriously hope most of the fans up there don't think along the same lines as you. If that is the general consensus then the game will never ever grow. There is a real problem here & the attitude is simply to let whatever happens happen. As I said I'm gobsmacked.
We pay good money to attend and have a right to see the very best players the game can produce in this country week in & week out.

You are acting like elite players are pouring out of the game left right and centre. We are talking about ONE PLAYER leaving here. One guy.

Also, the standard of the game right now is better than ever before. If the talent is supposedly being "watered down" it is not evident to me, and I watch every single game, every single round.

Wow is all I can say.
Unbelievable.
Like I said previously, we will revisit this thread down the track.
What I will say is that problems can't be fixed if you don't come to the conclusion that one exists. However I suspect you could be playing with a competition full of players from the Managatang 3rd's and you would still say the same as you are now.

You are acting like elite players are pouring out of the game left right and centre. We are talking about ONE PLAYER leaving here. One guy.

Also, the standard of the game right now is better than ever before. If the talent is supposedly being "watered down" it is not evident to me, and I watch every single game, every single round.

How many player names do I have to give you Dan?

How many player names do I have to give you Dan?

See, IMO, you giving me all these names actually proves my point.

This has been happening for years. Players have been leaving regularly. Big name players as well. Every time it happens people moan about the death of the game, falling in standards, watering down of the talent, just as you are now.

And what happens? The player/s leave, it gets press for a week, everyone forgets and the game goes on. At just as high if not as high a standard as it was before. Rinse and repeat.

That is why I am being so flippant mate, I've heard it all before and I've been hearing it for years. Its horse ****.

Also, I have acknowledged the existence of a problem. The players do not get paid enough and the cap needs to be increased. I have said this several times throughout this thread. I have also said that this problem should be rectified from 2012 when the introduction of a new TV deal will give the game an additional $100 million in revenue annually.

See, IMO, you giving me all these names actually proves my point.

This has been happening for years. Players have been leaving regularly. Big name players as well. Every time it happens people moan about the death of the game, falling in standards, watering down of the talent, just as you are now.

And what happens? The player/s leave, it gets press for a week, everyone forgets and the game goes on. At just as high if not as high a standard as it was before. Rinse and repeat.

That is why I am being so flippant mate, I've heard it all before and I've been hearing it for years. Its horse ****.

Also, I have acknowledged the existence of a problem. The players do not get paid enough and the cap needs to be increased. I have said this several times throughout this thread. I have also said that this problem should be rectified from 2012 when the introduction of a new TV deal will give the game an additional $100 million in revenue annually.


All that tells me Dan is you have now programmed yourself to losing quality players on a regular basis. So you are changing the attitude rather than changing the outcome. I acknowledge your say on the salary cap increase, but how much of that supposed $100 million TV revenue will go to the clubs & players? For instance if the cap only goes from $4.2 million to $4.9 million then it's akin to putting a band aid on an axe wound because in two years time the other sport codes in this country wont be sitting back waiting for the NRL to catch up financially. From what I understand the next TV deal is from 2013 onwards. Can the cap stay where it is until then? I don't think so.

All that tells me Dan is you have now programmed yourself to losing quality players on a regular basis. So you are changing the attitude rather than changing the outcome. I acknowledge your say on the salary cap increase, but how much of that supposed $100 million TV revenue will go to the clubs & players? For instance if the cap only goes from $4.2 million to $4.9 million then it's akin to putting a band aid on an axe wound because in two years time the other sport codes in this country wont be sitting back waiting for the NRL to catch up financially. From what I understand the next TV deal is from 2013 onwards. Can the cap stay where it is until then? I don't think so.

Yeah the deal is to be negotiated in 2012 for 2013 onwards. The cap should go to somewhere around $6 million at that point, which I think will be good enough.

What else exactly is it that you propose? If raising the cap isn't the solution then what is? Obviously it isn't ideal to be losing our top players but it is what it is. At the moment a lot of clubs could not survive raising the cap. The NRL has shown that it is not interested in lessening the number of teams in Sydney, so there really is no option but to wait for the extra TV money and then raise the cap by a couple of million.

Thanks Dan - There is really only 2 of us posting here, but I am enjoying the discussion, even though I am a little surprised by some of your thought. But I understand you live & breath the game whereas I get what Foxsports can give me in the way of information.

Raising the cap is one solution of course. But it needs to be considerable.
Player wages need to be in line with other sports at least to some degree.
The battling clubs need to get their act together financially. For instance why is it fair if Brisbane lose players to a small salary cap because poorly managed teams have ensured the cap stays small? They need to raise the bar to compete with the likes of Brisbane not hold Brisbane back so that they don't get too big. A club is much more than just the players & coaching staff. they are business's in their own right. Some are run well & some are run incompetently.

Alternatives - How about a draft like AFL, NFL, NBA etc are doing for the young talent in the country?
The draft could be for say 16-18 year olds.
Whoever finished last the year before has pick one, whoever won the premiership has last pick of the talent pool. The draftees must sign 2 but preferably 3 year contracts on a minimum wage of around $150,000. They can't negotiate a new wage until their 3 year draft contract expires. If you have 3 or 4 or more of these type on your senior list it will ease salary cap pressure on the clubs. Draftee players after 3 years could then get their worth in the next contract depending on their performance. If they stay at their existing club they get a 15% relief on their cap. If they go elsewhere that doesn't happen. This could help with the current player movement meat market.
Look this may not be a particularly perfect solution I'm not pretending to have the answers. But it's the type of thinking that we need to get from the NRL administration. For every problem there is a solution just waiting to be discovered.
The draft would also spread the talent pool just like David Gallop wants to happen.

Thanks Dan - There is really only 2 of us posting here, but I am enjoying the discussion, even though I am a little surprised by some of your thought. But I understand you live & breath the game whereas I get what Foxsports can give me in the way of information.

Raising the cap is one solution of course. But it needs to be considerable.
Player wages need to be in line with other sports at least to some degree.
The battling clubs need to get their act together financially. For instance why is it fair if Brisbane lose players to a small salary cap because poorly managed teams have ensured the cap stays small? They need to raise the bar to compete with the likes of Brisbane not hold Brisbane back so that they don't get too big. A club is much more than just the players & coaching staff. they are business's in their own right. Some are run well & some are run incompetently.

Alternatives - How about a draft like AFL, NFL, NBA etc are doing for the young talent in the country?
The draft could be for say 16-18 year olds.
Whoever finished last the year before has pick one, whoever won the premiership has last pick of the talent pool. The draftees must sign 2 but preferably 3 year contracts on a minimum wage of around $150,000. They can't negotiate a new wage until their 3 year draft contract expires. If you have 3 or 4 or more of these type on your senior list it will ease salary cap pressure on the clubs. Draftee players after 3 years could then get their worth in the next contract depending on their performance. If they stay at their existing club they get a 15% relief on their cap. If they go elsewhere that doesn't happen. This could help with the current player movement meat market.
Look this may not be a particularly perfect solution I'm not pretending to have the answers. But it's the type of thinking that we need to get from the NRL administration. For every problem there is a solution just waiting to be discovered.
The draft would also spread the talent pool just like David Gallop wants to happen.

I would have thought a draft would only be necessary as a further move to even out the talent, which clearly isn't required.

You have touched on the #1 problem in the second paragraph of your post. This is an issue that has been discussed at length over the past 5 or so years. To be honest I am done discussing it. This is why.

Clearly there are clubs who could spend more than the salary cap and run a profitable business. Examples would include the Broncos, Melbourne, the Warriors, the Bulldogs, the Dragons and maybe the likes of Manly. There are other clubs who are struggling to survive under the current $4.1 million cap - chiefly the Sharks, but also a host of other Sydney-based clubs.

The problem is the NRL is not interested in altering the dynamics of the franchises, whether it be through moving teams, merging teams or just straight out getting rid of them. For instance, Cronulla should not have a Rugby League side. They just shouldn't. They don't have the catchment area, don't have the necessary financial backing, they just should not exist. The problem is this is not want the NRL wants, and that has been made clear.

As long as the NRL is essentially dictated to by the less financially stable Sydney clubs, the salary cap cannot be increased without a significant increase in the funding that is provided to these clubs. That is why the only option for a material increase in the cap (i.e. $2 million+) is at the time of the next TV deal.

That is the way I see it. There is essentially no point to us sitting here crying for them to raise the cap now, because it just isn't a possibility.

I see your point, but in effect the NRL calls itself a national competition but is still thinking of itself as the NSWRL. David Gallop himself said this week he wants to spread the talent evenly over the competition. A youth draft is the best way to ensure that. It may take 5 or 6 years to be relevant, but the team that researches the talent pool the best will prosper. Too much **** could go down between now and the next TV rights deal. We could be in a deep recession or anything. The NRL have to make some plans that will ensure the growth of the game. I don't see anything in the wind that details they are thinking ahead besides hoping they get a bigger slice of the TV rights pie.

Right now the AFL & Union are expanding and setting themselves up down the track. The NRL just aren't doing that. They are all about the here & now. Even the Western Force averages almost 18,000 people a game. Not bad for a state that isn't a traditional rugby state. Somehow the game must become a national game, even if some of the more traditional Sydney teams can't survive. I'm not really into Rugby but I love my League and I want it to be the best it can be both now and 10 years down the track.

By the way for crowd data WIKI is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Australian_football_code_crowds

I see your point, but in effect the NRL calls itself a national competition but is still thinking of itself as the NSWRL. David Gallop himself said this week he wants to spread the talent evenly over the competition. A youth draft is the best way to ensure that. It may take 5 or 6 years to be relevant, but the team that researches the talent pool the best will prosper. Too much **** could go down between now and the next TV rights deal. We could be in a deep recession or anything. The NRL have to make some plans that will ensure the growth of the game. I don't see anything in the wind that details they are thinking ahead besides hoping they get a bigger slice of the TV rights pie.

Right now the AFL & Union are expanding and setting themselves up down the track. The NRL just aren't doing that. They are all about the here & now. Even the Western Force averages almost 18,000 people a game. Not bad for a state that isn't a traditional rugby state. Somehow the game must become a national game, even if some of the more traditional Sydney teams can't survive. I'm not really into Rugby but I love my League and I want it to be the best it can be both now and 10 years down the track.

By the way for crowd data WIKI is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Australian_football_code_crowds

Yeah see, I'm more than happy with keeping the game East Coast and NZ. I just don't think league teams in SA and WA are viable.

Consider the Force. I can almost guarantee you that is not a profitable sporting organisation. It is almost definately propped up by the coffers of the ARU. WIthout all that ARU backing, the Force would not be viable. League teams don't really have that luxury.

As far as future plans are concerned, these would be mine (although I know there is no chance in what I am proposing actually being adopted):

1) Implement changes to the cap. It needs to be more sophisticated. For instance, Melbourne should maybe have got a concession for the guys that either they brought through or were with them for a significant period of time. Say, a 10-15% exemption of their salary. This kind of thing could stop us losing big stars.

2) Increase the base cap initially, even if it is only to $4.5 million or something. Just something to give the clubs a little more wiggle room over the next couple of years.

3) Pump a significant proportion of the additional post-2012 TV revenue into player salaries. Personally I would like to see the cap go to around $6.75 million from 2013, but I will settle for anything over $6 million. It makes sense. You get an extra $100 million in revenue each year, you are struggling to retain the top stars, you spend the money on player salaries. It makes sense.

4) Relocate clubs. I know it won't be popular but I think it needs to be done. The less supported and less financially successful Sydney clubs need to be relocated to places more suitable. It would need a full scale transparent assessment to identify which clubs are appropriate for relocation. My suggestions for cities/areas that would very successfully accommodate an NRL side are:
- Wellington
- Brisbane
- Central Coast
- Central Queensland

Yeah see, I'm more than happy with keeping the game East Coast and NZ. I just don't think league teams in SA and WA are viable.

Consider the Force. I can almost guarantee you that is not a profitable sporting organisation. It is almost definitely propped up by the coffers of the ARU. Without all that ARU backing, the Force would not be viable. League teams don't really have that luxury.

As far as future plans are concerned, these would be mine (although I know there is no chance in what I am proposing actually being adopted):

1) Implement changes to the cap. It needs to be more sophisticated. For instance, Melbourne should maybe have got a concession for the guys that either they brought through or were with them for a significant period of time. Say, a 10-15% exemption of their salary. This kind of thing could stop us losing big stars.

2) Increase the base cap initially, even if it is only to $4.5 million or something. Just something to give the clubs a little more wiggle room over the next couple of years.

3) Pump a significant proportion of the additional post-2012 TV revenue into player salaries. Personally I would like to see the cap go to around $6.75 million from 2013, but I will settle for anything over $6 million. It makes sense. You get an extra $100 million in revenue each year, you are struggling to retain the top stars, you spend the money on player salaries. It makes sense.

4) Relocate clubs. I know it won't be popular but I think it needs to be done. The less supported and less financially successful Sydney clubs need to be relocated to places more suitable. It would need a full scale transparent assessment to identify which clubs are appropriate for relocation. My suggestions for cities/areas that would very successfully accommodate an NRL side are:
- Wellington
- Brisbane
- Central Coast
- Central Queensland

All good ideas but eventually the game needs to go National. That means propping some clubs up for a while or relocating some interstate. Whether the NRL coffers are in a position to do that now is another matter. If they aren't then the administration is failing the game. A 2nd New Zealand team and another out of Brisbane are good suggestions. Where would the 2nd Brisbane team play? Every alternate week at Suncorp stadium?

All good ideas but eventually the game needs to go National. That means propping some clubs up for a while or relocating some interstate. Whether the NRL coffers are in a position to do that now is another matter. If they aren't then the administration is failing the game. A 2nd New Zealand team and another out of Brisbane are good suggestions. Where would the 2nd Brisbane team play? Every alternate week at Suncorp stadium?

That is what I would do.

For every guy that supports the Broncos up here there are 3 that hate them.

A second Brisbane team would be the second most successful club in the League IMO.

Obviously Wellington could easily support a commercially successful franchise.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on the national competition issue I think. I just don't see it even being a remote possibility and quite frankly I don't really see what the game has to gain from establishing a break-even team in Adelaide or Perth. Its not like its Melbourne.

That is what I would do.

For every guy that supports the Broncos up here there are 3 that hate them.

A second Brisbane team would be the second most successful club in the League IMO.

Obviously Wellington could easily support a commercially successful franchise.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on the national competition issue I think. I just don't see it even being a remote possibility and quite frankly I don't really see what the game has to gain from establishing a break-even team in Adelaide or Perth. Its not like its Melbourne.

Interstate rivalries are sometimes fierce in the AFL.
For instance if an Adelaide team beat the Storm in rugby league then they would never shut up about it. Even in sports such as netball, the interstate rivalries are a big part of what brings the people to games.

can't believe the broncos went down to the knights.

I'm suprised though there aren't at least two New Zealand teams in the NRL.

The Warriors are representing a whole country.

By David Knox on May 2, 2010

Nine is about to do the (almost) unthinkable and play an NRL match live into Melbourne.
Next Sunday’s Melbourne Storm v Brisbane Broncos game at AAMI Park will air live at 3pm.
A repeat of Survivor will instead air at 11:30pm in place of Embarrassing Illnesses.

I'm suprised though there aren't at least two New Zealand teams in the NRL.

The Warriors are representing a whole country.

It just seems to me that sporting teams based in Wellington get better support than in Aukland. It makes sense to have a Wellington-based team to me. Far more sense than it does to have a side in Cronulla anyway.

I'll just reiterate my confusion as to why David Gallop jumps before he thinks.
Why is it that the Melbourne Storm cannot accumulate any competition points because they are over the salary cap, yet opposition teams aren't given the two points when playing them regardless of the result? The same rule should apply surely? Opposing clubs like the Warriors, Cowboys & Broncos this week are playing a team over the salary cap, so why is their season being affected by it? All teams should automatically be given the 2 points. It seems the Storm have been branded cheats and are still cheating, yet opposition teams vying for a place in the finals may have their season determined by a result of a game that is supposedly not a level playing field. You can't have it both ways. Give those teams the 2 points. It's the only fair & reasonable course of action.

It seems I have an ally in Benji Marshall.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/save-our-stars-20100503-u3tg.html#poll


Poll: Can the NRL do more to keep its superstars?

<form method="post" action="http://feedback.smh.com.au/action/voteForAPoll" name="poll"> <fieldset> <input name="pollId" value="1404773" type="hidden"> <input name="indexUrlPath" value="http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/save-our-stars-20100503-u3tg.html#poll" type="hidden"> <legend></legend></fieldset> </form>
<dl class="pollBars"><dt>Yes</dt><dd>88%
</dd><dt>No</dt><dd>12%
</dd></dl> Total votes: 1108.

I'll just reiterate my confusion as to why David Gallop jumps before he thinks.
Why is it that the Melbourne Storm cannot accumulate any competition points because they are over the salary cap, yet opposition teams aren't given the two points when playing them regardless of the result? The same rule should apply surely? Opposing clubs like the Warriors, Cowboys & Broncos this week are playing a team over the salary cap, so why is their season being affected by it? All teams should automatically be given the 2 points. It seems the Storm have been branded cheats and are still cheating, yet opposition teams vying for a place in the finals may have their season determined by a result of a game that is supposedly not a level playing field. You can't have it both ways. Give those teams the 2 points. It's the only fair & reasonable course of action.

Yeah this is a tough issue. As Gallop said in an interview, that isn't fair either, because it would effectively be penalising the Titans and Manly for beating Melbourne before the rorting was uncovered.

Interesting also that a further $150,000 in rorts has been uncovered. Man the Storm were paying overs for some of those players.

It seems I have an ally in Benji Marshall.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/save-our-stars-20100503-u3tg.html#poll


Poll: Can the NRL do more to keep its superstars?

<form method="post" action="http://feedback.smh.com.au/action/voteForAPoll" name="poll"> <fieldset> <input name="pollId" value="1404773" type="hidden"> <input name="indexUrlPath" value="http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/save-our-stars-20100503-u3tg.html#poll" type="hidden"> <legend></legend></fieldset> </form>
<dl class="pollBars"><dt>Yes</dt><dd>88%
</dd><dt>No</dt><dd>12%
</dd></dl> Total votes: 1108.

I'm surprised it isn't closer to 100%. Anyone that doesn't think the cap should be increased is nutso.

Yeah this is a tough issue. As Gallop said in an interview, that isn't fair either, because it would effectively be penalising the Titans and Manly for beating Melbourne before the rorting was uncovered.

Interesting also that a further $150,000 in rorts has been uncovered. Man the Storm were paying overs for some of those players.

What an astonishing statement. It's not friggin rocket science.
Melbourne cannot win points because they are still playing over the cap. Yet teams losing to that team who are over the cap will be penalised even though by definition they are not playing a legal team. Everybody who played the Storm this season at least, should have the 2 points awarded to them, starting from round 1 & continuing for the whole season. It makes no difference to Manly or Gold Coasts season because they got the points anyway, but it bloody well certainly makes a difference to everyone else's season.
This guy is not leadership material.

What an astonishing statement. It's not friggin rocket science.
Melbourne cannot win points because they are still playing over the cap. Yet teams losing to that team who are over the cap will be penalised even though by definition they are not playing a legal team. Everybody who played the Storm this season at least, should have the 2 points awarded to them, starting from round 1 & continuing for the whole season. It makes no difference to Manly or Gold Coasts season because they got the points anyway, but it bloody well certainly makes a difference to everyone else's season.
This guy is not leadership material.

Well sure, that would seem to be the way to go. But there are three problems associated with your proposal:

1) Every game the Storm are involved in would mean nothing to anyone. If the other side automatically gets 2 points, the games are completely pointless rather than being only pointless for the Storm. That would make it ridiculous and basically Melbourne just couldn't participate at all, which has been pretty much discounted as a viable option.

2) Manly and the Gold Coast beat Melbourne. You award everyone 2 points for their games against Melbourne, those sides are effectively getting stripped of 2 points.

3) What about the sides that are scheduled to play the Storm twice? Surely it is unfair that they get an additional 2 points handed to them just because of a scheduling complication.


I have to be honest I am getting a bit sick of people like you bashing Gallop for the decisions he has made in relation to this issue. Sure there are problems with them, but as I have just demonstrated those or similar problems exist with any situation you come up with.

I'm surprised it isn't closer to 100%. Anyone that doesn't think the cap should be increased is nutso.

the cap is there to save clubs going down but why not bring in a system like A league where you get a marquee signing which isn't involved in the cap, here there is one youth marquee and one senior

if each nrl club had say two players that were not involved in the cap it would make a lot of players think twice from going overseas

the cap is there to save clubs going down but why not bring in a system like A league where you get a marquee signing which isn't involved in the cap, here there is one youth marquee and one senior

if each nrl club had say two players that were not involved in the cap it would make a lot of players think twice from going overseas

Yeah sure, but that is essentially just raising the cap.

For instance you would have say Parramatta paying Hayne $700,000 which would be outside of the cap. That is just another way to raise the cap.

Personally I still think it would be best to just bump the cap up to $4.5 million now to ease the short-term pressure and then push it up over $6 million when the new TV revenue kicks in from 2013. I fail to see how this is a bad plan.

I heard that the AFL salary cap is around $8 million for each club.

No wonder why Karmichael Hunt went to AFL.

Well sure, that would seem to be the way to go. But there are three problems associated with your proposal:

1) Every game the Storm are involved in would mean nothing to anyone. If the other side automatically gets 2 points, the games are completely pointless rather than being only pointless for the Storm. That would make it ridiculous and basically Melbourne just couldn't participate at all, which has been pretty much discounted as a viable option.

2) Manly and the Gold Coast beat Melbourne. You award everyone 2 points for their games against Melbourne, those sides are effectively getting stripped of 2 points.

3) What about the sides that are scheduled to play the Storm twice? Surely it is unfair that they get an additional 2 points handed to them just because of a scheduling complication.


I have to be honest I am getting a bit sick of people like you bashing Gallop for the decisions he has made in relation to this issue. Sure there are problems with them, but as I have just demonstrated those or similar problems exist with any situation you come up with.

I'm bashing him for more than one issue Dan as per our conversations over the last week. He doesn't plan he just speaks first and if you want to jump to his defence at all costs, fine. He is copping it from many avenues because he leapt to hold a press conference to announce penalties without even speaking to his Board or thinking all of the possible scenarios & ramifications through.

Whilst your arguments are valid about Manly & Titans, I think 2 teams interests compared to all the others doesn't add up. They aren't losing points, lets make that clear. The other teams that haven't beaten them have. In light of one team still being over the salary cap, which scenario in all honesty is fairer? How about if the Broncos lose to the Storm & miss out on the finals by 2 points because Melbourne decided to switch on that particular day, but rested 3 of it's big 4 against say West Tigers? West tigers then took the Broncos spot in the finals. Resting players is a real possibility for the Storm at any time of the year, after all they aren't playing for anything. They are risking injury to their investments (players) for nothing.They could even decide after the halfway mark to give some of their stars the rest of the year off & cite injury. They can be a massive influence on who does & does not make the 8. That needs to be taken away immediately.

I have enjoyed our discussion without getting cheesed off as you seem to be now. Both of us have made valid points & that's what a discussion forum is about isn't it? I love the game & don't believe Gallop is the best way forward.

What I will give him is that perhaps at last he is realising that the game has problems that need to be addressed immediately, not after 2012.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/the-men-who-will-save-salary-cap/story-e6frg7mf-1225861765917

I'm bashing him for more than one issue Dan as per our conversations over the last week. He doesn't plan he just speaks first and if you want to jump to his defence at all costs, fine. He is copping it from many avenues because he leapt to hold a press conference to announce penalties without even speaking to his Board or thinking all of the possible scenarios & ramifications through.

Whilst your arguments are valid about Manly & Titans, I think 2 teams interests compared to all the others doesn't add up. They aren't losing points, lets make that clear. The other teams that haven't beaten them have. In light of one team still being over the salary cap, which scenario in all honesty is fairer? How about if the Broncos lose to the Storm & miss out on the finals by 2 points because Melbourne decided to switch on that particular day, but rested 3 of it's big 4 against say West Tigers? West tigers then took the Broncos spot in the finals. Resting players is a real possibility for the Storm at any time of the year, after all they aren't playing for anything. They are risking injury to their investments (players) for nothing.They could even decide after the halfway mark to give some of their stars the rest of the year off & cite injury. They can be a massive influence on who does & does not make the 8. That needs to be taken away immediately.

I have enjoyed our discussion without getting cheesed off as you seem to be now. Both of us have made valid points & that's what a discussion forum is about isn't it? I love the game & don't believe Gallop is the best way forward.

What I will give him is that perhaps at last he is realising that the game has problems that need to be addressed immediately, not after 2012.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/the-men-who-will-save-salary-cap/story-e6frg7mf-1225861765917

Haha, steady on mate I'm not getting cheesed off. And I'm not trying to defend all of Gallop's decision. He has made some ordinary decisions and clearly lacks the guts to do what is necessary - raise the cap even if it is at the expense of the commercial viability of one or two clubs.

All I am saying is that people have been so quick to bash this particular decision. Your post still didn't address the concerns I raised in mine. What happens to the rest of the Storm's fixtures this season mate? Clearly the only option under your proposal is that the entire Melbourne squad sits out the rest of the season. You can't play a game where nothing is on the line for anybody. That doesn't go, and neither does asking a squad of players not to play a game of league for almost 12 months.

The decision that was made in relation to this particular issue was the only realistic one available. It is pretty clear to me.

this weeks game is a sell out apparently, should be good

http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l409/sugoibaka/SSS_led.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4552/photo1np.jpg

Problem solved:

"The Daily Telegraph can reveal the NRL weill look at increasing the grant to each club by $100,000, lift the salary cap by $50,000 through either cash or concessions and increase representative match payments."

Haha.

Problem solved:

"The Daily Telegraph can reveal the NRL weill look at increasing the grant to each club by $100,000, lift the salary cap by $50,000 through either cash or concessions and increase representative match payments."

Haha.

Lol your kidding Dan?
150,000 isn't going to keep top players in the game.
Yes it's a start, but if that's it until after 2012 then it's not going to solve the problem at all. If they come out with something else at years end or before then fair enough.
I do like the lifting rep match payments though.

Lol your kidding Dan?
150,000 isn't going to keep top players in the game.
Yes it's a start, but if that's it until after 2012 then it's not going to solve the problem at all. If they come out with something else at years end or before then fair enough.
I do like the lifting rep match payments though.

Of course I am kidding mate, thus the reason for the "haha".

I never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the shed buddy. ;)

I never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the shed buddy. ;)

Lol.

But in all seriousness, the $50,000 is pretty funny.

The key thing is what can be done over the next 2 years. It is clear that the long-term solution is to increase club grants by $2-$2.5 million per annum and have that passed straight through to the salary cap upon the signing of the new TV deal. The problem is before that deal is signed. I think significantly increasing what players can earn in 3rd party deals in the meantime is the way to go.

Lol.

But in all seriousness, the $50,000 is pretty funny.

The key thing is what can be done over the next 2 years. It is clear that the long-term solution is to increase club grants by $2-$2.5 million per annum and have that passed straight through to the salary cap upon the signing of the new TV deal. The problem is before that deal is signed. I think significantly increasing what players can earn in 3rd party deals in the meantime is the way to go.


You're probably right. They could inrease that significantly without the clubs being adversely affected.

I don't think he will make it, but to be honest if Karmichael Hunt is a success at AFL it will open a Pandora's box. Other clubs will come calling with fat cheque books and other players may start to think, if he can do it so can I. But as I said I think it will prove too big a change for Hunt. Right now it's just a publicity stunt for the new Gold Coast team.
Tell me honestly Dan, as a devout Rugby Leaguer will you take any interest in Hunt's career in the early days?
For me I don't give a fat rats about Gold Coast's AFL club, but I will keep an eye on how Hunt goes. At least early on in his adaptation.

You're probably right. They could inrease that significantly without the clubs being adversely affected.

I don't think he will make it, but to be honest if Karmichael Hunt is a success at AFL it will open a Pandora's box. Other clubs will come calling with fat cheque books and other players may start to think, if he can do it so can I. But as I said I think it will prove too big a change for Hunt. Right now it's just a publicity stunt for the new Gold Coast team.
Tell me honestly Dan, as a devout Rugby Leaguer will you take any interest in Hunt's career in the early days?
For me I don't give a fat rats about Gold Coast's AFL club, but I will keep an eye on how Hunt goes. At least early on in his adaptation.

I'll watch the first game, just out of curiosity.

I don't think he will do very well. I can't see how anyway. Hes not overly tall, hes not that quick, he can't kick long distances, I don't see how he will be any good.

But yeah I agree, it will be better for Rugby League if K does poorly, which I think he will.

Did anyone see the try by Folau where he ran most of the field to score?

That's why he needs to stay in the NRL.

Did anyone see the try by Folau where he ran most of the field to score?

That's why he needs to stay in the NRL.

Gotta say I enjoyed that game.

Always hated the Storm, good to give them a kicking.

Gotta say I enjoyed that game.

Always hated the Storm, good to give them a kicking.

Hang on mate, there is still a slight heart beat.
Better get your steel caps on again. :P

Well done to your mob. Too good this weekend.

6 pages on mungoball?

Melbourne will have the Rebels next season anyway, don't need the Storm

Hang on mate, there is still a slight heart beat.
Better get your steel caps on again. :P

Well done to your mob. Too good this weekend.

Yeah, its been a tough season so far, good to get a win over the Storm. First time we have won down there in years.

Its going to be interesting to see if your guys can keep it together the rest of the season. Its gotta be tough knowing that it is all for nothing week in week out.

Thurston resigned with the Cowboys today and there is a lot of mail flying around that Gasnier could be set to make a return to the Dragons.

Thurston resigned with the Cowboys today and there is a lot of mail flying around that Gasnier could be set to make a return to the Dragons.

Great news on Thurston. Would be great if Gasnier came back, but St George would have to dump some players to fit him under their cap if he does surely? What is Sonny Bill doing now? Still playing Union in France? I miss watching him play. What a talent that guy was. Pity his brain didn't match his ability. Walking out on his club like he did.

Great news on Thurston. Would be great if Gasnier came back, but St George would have to dump some players to fit him under their cap if he does surely? What is Sonny Bill doing now? Still playing Union in France? I miss watching him play. What a talent that guy was. Pity his brain didn't match his ability. Walking out on his club like he did.

St George are talking about squeezing him in this year and then back-ending his contract.

St George are talking about squeezing him in this year and then back-ending his contract.

Really? You're kidding. This year?
St George, like everyone else would be stretching their cap limit. This is just SUS.
Gasnier's don't grow on trees & they don't come cheap.

Really? You're kidding. This year?
St George, like everyone else would be stretching their cap limit. This is just SUS.
Gasnier's don't grow on trees & they don't come cheap.

Well he has had to rush back to Australia due to his wife's father being diagnosed with cancer, so I'm guessing he would basically be playing for nothing this season.

Noone is going to be trying anything shifty with the cap now mate, not with what has just happened to the Storm.

Well he has had to rush back to Australia due to his wife's father being diagnosed with cancer, so I'm guessing he would basically be playing for nothing this season.

Noone is going to be trying anything shifty with the cap now mate, not with what has just happened to the Storm.


True, but perhaps he is getting a 3rd party deal?
Gallop has copped a lot of criticism about losing players lately. See what I started? ;) Perhaps he is responding? Whatever the reason there is no way a guy of that class will play for nothing. He could have auctioned himself to the highest bidder.

Great news on Thurston. Would be great if Gasnier came back, but St George would have to dump some players to fit him under their cap if he does surely? What is Sonny Bill doing now? Still playing Union in France? I miss watching him play. What a talent that guy was. Pity his brain didn't match his ability. Walking out on his club like he did.

He's playing in the Top 14 for Toulon, Gasnier was reportedly a Rebels target, he's currently playing for Stade Francais. Gasnier is an average Union player, Sonny Bill starting to adapt really well.

True, but perhaps he is getting a 3rd party deal?
Gallop has copped a lot of criticism about losing players lately. See what I started? ;) Perhaps he is responding? Whatever the reason there is no way a guy of that class will play for nothing. He could have auctioned himself to the highest bidder.

Yeah, I see what you are saying. It wouldn't shock me one bit if Gasnier ended up playing at the Rebels.

He's playing in the Top 14 for Toulon, Gasnier was reportedly a Rebels target, he's currently playing for Stade Francais. Gasnier is an average Union player, Sonny Bill starting to adapt really well.

Class backs are often wasted in Union, they just don't get enough quality ball.

He's playing in the Top 14 for Toulon, Gasnier was reportedly a Rebels target, he's currently playing for Stade Francais. Gasnier is an average Union player, Sonny Bill starting to adapt really well.


Cheers.
Thanks for the heads up.