View Full Version : Roy Jones Jr Or Carlos Monzon? Who's Greater?


Southpaw Great
04-18-2010, 08:31 PM
Who would you rank higher on your ATG list and why?

Southpaw Great
04-18-2010, 08:47 PM
Bump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CarlosG815
04-18-2010, 09:11 PM
Roy Jones without a doubt.

mickey malone
04-19-2010, 05:09 AM
Cigarette paper close.. I list Monzon just one place ahead of him, but i've got no quarrel with anyone who has it close either way.. Resumes are about the same, Power's about the same.. Jones is faster, but Monzon has the better chin and can perform over 15 rounds..

CarlosG815
04-19-2010, 09:56 AM
Cigarette paper close.. I list Monzon just one place ahead of him, but i've got no quarrel with anyone who has it close either way.. Resumes are about the same, Power's about the same.. Jones is faster, but Monzon has the better chin and can perform over 15 rounds..

Mick, if Roy can do 12 rounds he can do 20. I also believe Roy had a good chin. He never lost in his prime, I don't know how anybody can claim anybody has a better chin that he did.

Roy also moved up the weight classes and became HW champion of the world. You can't ask more out of a fighter.

mickey malone
04-19-2010, 10:39 AM
Mick, if Roy can do 12 rounds he can do 20. I also believe Roy had a good chin. He never lost in his prime, I don't know how anybody can claim anybody has a better chin that he did.

Roy also moved up the weight classes and became HW champion of the world. You can't ask more out of a fighter.
I'm not doubting Roy could have fought 15 rounders, i'm just saying Monzon did, making it a slightly tougher era.. I also give more credit for defending an undisputed title 14 times and taking on all of it's divisions top fighters.. In my opinion Jones would have been much greater than Monzon had he cleaned out at least one division, as opposed to shopping around for titles.. Going up to HW, just to run and jab with the clumbersome John Ruiz badly effected what should have been his best performances. Monzon would have had the likes of Johnson and Tarver for breakfast, and Roy could have done too..

Miburo
04-19-2010, 10:40 AM
I have a hard time predicting Monzon versus any top opponent, as it's hard to understand what set him apart.

Joey Giardello
04-19-2010, 11:50 AM
The Greatest Middleweight of all time Carlos Monzon gets my vote!!

mickey malone
04-19-2010, 01:07 PM
I have a hard time predicting Monzon versus any top opponent, as it's hard to understand what set him apart.
Ring Generalmanship are the words you're looking for..

Miburo
04-19-2010, 03:41 PM
Ring Generalmanship are the words you're looking for..

Yeah but that isn't enough to go on to predict a fight against RJJ. Would that overcome speed and athleticism? You can find fighters better than him at just about any other aspect of the game, but Monzon was a whole greater than the sum of its parts.

RockyB
04-19-2010, 05:00 PM
I have to go with Roy Jones Jr..

the Heavyweight title does it for me :)

carlos slim
04-19-2010, 07:00 PM
Monzon would have had the likes of Johnson and Tarver for breakfast, and Roy could have done too..

oh it wouldve been that easy? get the **** outta here....why didnt monzon move up to 175 then...he was too busy beating up on welterweights....

The_Demon
04-19-2010, 07:05 PM
carlos monzon,but not by much at all

mickey malone
04-20-2010, 04:11 AM
oh it wouldve been that easy? get the **** outta here....why didnt monzon move up to 175 then...he was too busy beating up on welterweights....
ATG welterweights being greater than mediocre light-heavies..

GameGod
04-20-2010, 05:15 AM
Roy Jones is clearly (if narrowly) superior. He had vastly more speed, and Monzon, good as he was, would not be able to make up for it with huge punching power (like, say, Hagler would).

BigStereotype
04-20-2010, 09:20 AM
The Greatest Middleweight of all time Carlos Monzon gets my vote!!

You know that you have three fighters above Sugar Ray on your top middleweights list, right? That's not a mistake?

carlos slim
04-21-2010, 06:26 PM
ATG welterweights being greater than mediocre light-heavies..

not when they have no power to hurt you...i know you dont wanna hear it but tarver smokes monzon....why? because tarver only lost to guys really really fast (jones n dawson) or good inside pressure fighters (hopkins n johnson)....monzon would try to box from the outside as usual and lose because he cant expect to outjab a taller tarver all nite long...

mickey malone
04-21-2010, 11:46 PM
not when they have no power to hurt you...i know you dont wanna hear it but tarver smokes monzon....why? because tarver only lost to guys really really fast (jones n dawson) or good inside pressure fighters (hopkins n johnson)....monzon would try to box from the outside as usual and lose because he cant expect to outjab a taller tarver all nite long...
Music to my ears!.. So Monzon loses to these guys coz they're really fast, or they can fight on the inside.. That's like me saying, Monzon out-reaches Jones and Tarver which incidently, he does.. As for having the power to hurt you, I don't suppose you've heard of a guy called Benny Briscoe?.. I can assure you, he was a damn site more dangerous than Eric Harding or Glen Johnson.. If Harding can deck and beat Tarver, Briscoe would KO him..

With regard to facing either Tarver or Dawson, the only potential problem would be their southpaw stances.. Other than that, Monzon is the more accomplished fighter in every department.. Tbh, you could add both of their resumes together and it still wouldn't equate to what Monzon has achieved..

carlos slim
04-22-2010, 07:18 PM
Music to my ears!.. So Monzon loses to these guys coz they're really fast, or they can fight on the inside.. That's like me saying, Monzon out-reaches Jones and Tarver which incidently, he does.. As for having the power to hurt you, I don't suppose you've heard of a guy called Benny Briscoe?.. I can assure you, he was a damn site more dangerous than Eric Harding or Glen Johnson.. If Harding can deck and beat Tarver, Briscoe would KO him..

With regard to facing either Tarver or Dawson, the only potential problem would be their southpaw stances.. Other than that, Monzon is the more accomplished fighter in every department.. Tbh, you could add both of their resumes together and it still wouldn't equate to what Monzon has achieved..

i know enough to know that monzon got a draw against brisco in argentina!!!

i didnt say dawson would beat monzon, his career is barely started....tarver would.....he would beat those welterweights just as easy as monzon....

C.Y.
04-23-2010, 04:46 AM
Music to my ears!.. So Monzon loses to these guys coz they're really fast, or they can fight on the inside.. That's like me saying, Monzon out-reaches Jones and Tarver which incidently, he does.. As for having the power to hurt you, I don't suppose you've heard of a guy called Benny Briscoe?.. I can assure you, he was a damn site more dangerous than Eric Harding or Glen Johnson.. If Harding can deck and beat Tarver, Briscoe would KO him..

With regard to facing either Tarver or Dawson, the only potential problem would be their southpaw stances.. Other than that, Monzon is the more accomplished fighter in every department.. Tbh, you could add both of their resumes together and it still wouldn't equate to what Monzon has achieved..

i was unaware monzon fought at 175.. its hard to predict how he would fair against guys 15 pounds north of his division, to say he would just blow them out the water is just ridiculous

mickey malone
04-23-2010, 05:40 AM
Quote: carlos slim
i know enough to know that monzon got a draw against brisco in argentina!!!

i didnt say dawson would beat monzon, his career is barely started....tarver would.....he would beat those welterweights just as easy as monzon....

Just a difference of opinion then.. The Briscoe draw you mention was quite early in their careers and they were considered arch rivals for a while.. Monzon avenged that defeat as champion.. Briscoe incidently was KO'd by another great MW, Rodrigo Valdez, who a past prime Monzon was able to beat twice.. Valdez always gets forgotten, but he was a very successful and hard punching WBA champ who got sandwiched inbetween the careers of Monzon and Hagler.. I've actually seen him listed in one or two top 10 MW lists over the years..

Quote C.Y.
i was unaware monzon fought at 175.. its hard to predict how he would fair against guys 15 pounds north of his division, to say he would just blow them out the water is just ridiculous

No one's mentioned any KO's here.. Monzon was a very big middle, with a light-heavy's reach, so the covo's just hypathetical in judging the styles and calibre of the opponents they fought.. Jones and Monzon, that is.. I'm saying it's a close call, but Monzon edges it on quality of opponents..