View Full Version : WEIGHTS HELP: Strength Training Program


The Golden Boy
04-09-2010, 10:06 AM
Hi guys,

just looking for a little help with my weights program. in the interest of keeping this simple to follow i will break it down.

CURRENT SITUATION: I weight 185 and fight at 178. i would like to increase my strength as much as possible without putting on any more weight or size.

IDEAL RESULT: Increase strength without putting on size so i can comfortably make 178 by fight time.

WHAT I AM DOING AT THE MOMENT: currently i am pushing weights about as heavy as i can in the 3-4 set 5-8 rep range. i do one main exercise for each body part back to back but not in a super set, just 1 set of each rotating. reason i do this is i want to have a longer rest perios between each one becase i dont want to put on size, just increase my strength. i am doing a 2 day split as follows:

Day 1 - Chest and Legs

- Bench Press
- Leg press (cant do squats as i have had shoulder surgery and dont have the flexability to hold the bar behind my head)

Day 2 - Shoulders and Back

D/B push press
Deadlift

i also do some exercises to compliment these ie. db jump squats, bb shoulder thrust, some arm work, pull ups etc but what is listed above is my main power stuff

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW:

1. what is the ideal set/rep range to build strength and not size?
2. is what i have listed above condusive to reaching my goals? if not what would you suggest i add, remove, change?

Thanks in advance for your help and please let me know if you would like more information :D

kbpoetree
04-09-2010, 10:44 AM
well first off the heavy lifting has to go....heavy lifting is what gains size...cut down ur weight and increase your reps and number of sets...do explosion lifts such as w benching...start slowly going down to ur chest..once it touches...shoot it up then repeat...also switch it go down fast and slowly go up...do light weight i promise this will hurt after only a few if its not somethan your used to...key is to stretch...stretch like crazy keep flexible as weights without stretching will decrease your range...and one more thing...do lunges and frog leaps if you know what those are

kbpoetree
04-09-2010, 10:47 AM
remember one more thing most people dont know or realize...the more your legs grow the more your body grows....lots of guys who quit gainin size if you look at em they look like a lightbulb big upper and no lower lol...not sayen quit w the leg workouts leg workout is key but tone down the weight you do your presses...you should b doin bout 4-5 sets of 15-20 reps

hateinyaeyes32
04-10-2010, 03:28 AM
^^^ This.....

BUT, I think your asking this to gain more "power"... Do a bunch of bodyweight excersises, ive given this advice millions of times on here, pushups, pullups, chinups, dips, situps, ect. with and without weights.... Do lots of these, and I mean lots as in you cannot possibly do one more repitition... If you do that, you should not have many problems with your power... If you have the technique down, you should be absolutely fine combining that with those workouts... Your punches will hurt, if thats what youre trying to do...

stefl14
04-10-2010, 04:14 AM
To start with, it is a common myth that heavy lifting causes weight gain and a loss of speed. The main contributing factor in weight gain is nutritional intake. If you don't eat, you won't gain weight, simple as that.

Bulky muscles are not necessarily a sign that someone is strong. Consider olympic weight lifters who must compete within weight classes. They are able to gain strength without gaining weight. In order to do this an athelete must target the nervous system.

To do this they must lift heavy to overload their muscles. To gain strength without gaining size atheletes should work within the 1-5 repetition range at 80-100% of their 1 repetition maximum. This means that you should be able to do no more than 5 repetitions with the weight you are using. A typical set for maximum strength would be 3 repetitions at 95% of your 1 repetition maximum. This targets neuromuscular strengh and does not cause hypertrophy (muscle gain). After doing each set a long rest period is required (more than 2 minutes) to allow for full recovery if you are targeting neuromuscular strength. For this reason it is a good idea to alternate the body parts you train using this method rather than waiting 2-3 minutes between sets. Then you can go back to the original body part later.

With this in mind. Maximum strength can be beneficial to a boxer but it is definately not their only need. Boxers should work on muscular endurance and explosive strength too. To develop muscular endurance free weights and/or bodyweight excercises can be used at a lighter weight (not too light!!) but a higher repetition range and shorter rest intervals between sets.
Explosive strength is perhaps one of the most important strengths for a boxer to posess. To develop this we can use plyometric excercises such as clap press ups as the resistance involved is not too heavy/too light but the muscular contraction is fast which helps to develop explosive strength.

Hope this helps

Stef.L

Dirt
04-10-2010, 11:28 AM
well first off the heavy lifting has to go....heavy lifting is what gains size...cut down ur weight and increase your reps and number of sets...do explosion lifts such as w benching

dont agree.

heavy weights with low reps (3-6 reps) helps build strength.
8-12 range is for hypertrophy (building muscle)
15+ reps increases endurance.

you can gain strength without gaining size and you can gain size without really getting stronger. they are not directly correlated.

overall strength, you should do the compound workouts like bench, squats, deadlifts and bent over rows. but for boxing, you should also do sport specific exercises that will help with explosiveness.

In one of Ross Emanait's book, he says dumbbell snatches,swings and clean and press can help with power and explosiveness.

Righthandbanger
04-10-2010, 01:00 PM
only stefl14 and dirt seem to have a clue here.

follow http://www.stronglifts.com and you will get stronger without gaining weight.. as long as you dont overeat your muscles will stay the same size

..I'm gna keep posting this ****ing link until people start to realise that without a proper program, most of the stuff you're doing in the gym aint worth a light

hateinyaeyes32
04-10-2010, 01:31 PM
only stefl14 and dirt seem to have a clue here.

follow http://www.stronglifts.com and you will get stronger without gaining weight.. as long as you dont overeat your muscles will stay the same size

..I'm gna keep posting this ****ing link until people start to realise that without a proper program, most of the stuff you're doing in the gym aint worth a light
Just because a program works for some doesnt mean it will work with others... I definitely know what im talkin about when it comes to the weights buddy, believe me... I just dont feel like going into a long post elaborating about it.... You keep posting a link that noone else follows isnt doing anyone any good

them_apples
04-10-2010, 04:00 PM
well first off the heavy lifting has to go....heavy lifting is what gains size...cut down ur weight and increase your reps and number of sets...do explosion lifts such as w benching...start slowly going down to ur chest..once it touches...shoot it up then repeat...also switch it go down fast and slowly go up...do light weight i promise this will hurt after only a few if its not somethan your used to...key is to stretch...stretch like crazy keep flexible as weights without stretching will decrease your range...and one more thing...do lunges and frog leaps if you know what those are

hes only going to get bigger if his diet increases or if he's already eating a lot.

I see some guys lifting heavy but then guys like Pacquiao and Mayweather seem to be using lighter weights.

Dirt
04-10-2010, 04:11 PM
Just because a program works for some doesnt mean it will work with others... I definitely know what im talkin about when it comes to the weights buddy, believe me... I just dont feel like going into a long post elaborating about it.... You keep posting a link that noone else follows isnt doing anyone any good

very true. but power is usually gained through heavy lifting with low reps, certain bodyweight exercises that invlove explosive movements, and a few others.

BUT one this that doesn't increase power, is low weights high reps. thats for muscular endurance.

Righthandbanger
04-10-2010, 07:50 PM
Just because a program works for some doesnt mean it will work with others... I definitely know what im talkin about when it comes to the weights buddy, believe me... I just dont feel like going into a long post elaborating about it.... You keep posting a link that noone else follows isnt doing anyone any good

you dont know ****, clearly. stronglifts works for everyone hands down. unless you have injuries preventing you from doing squat,press,bench,deadlift,chins,dips and barbell rows you WILL progress with stronglifts. plus they have more than one program.

and at least one guy has used it, he let me know in a +rep

hateinyaeyes32
04-11-2010, 02:20 AM
you dont know ****, clearly. stronglifts works for everyone hands down. unless you have injuries preventing you from doing squat,press,bench,deadlift,chins,dips and barbell rows you WILL progress with stronglifts. plus they have more than one program.

and at least one guy has used it, he let me know in a +rep
Clearly, I do know ****, Ive been lifting weights for years kid. I never said stronglifts dont work but they arent always the best for boxing.... If youre weak then yes, use them, but if your strong on the weights like I am, I just lift high reps and power lifting both, not just one or the other, plus bodyweight exercises, but the main one that works best for me is bodyweight exercises as for boxing "strength".... So dont come in here acting like your some professional power lifter or something and trying to talk ****, your cleary butt hurt because I called you out for trying to make me look dumb, and trying to say i dont know what im talking about.... Ive lifted weights for years kiddo so why dont you run along and go play in another thread he said he wants people who know what theyre talking about to help him out, and that obviously wouldn't qualify you!

Righthandbanger
04-11-2010, 04:42 AM
Clearly, I do know ****, Ive been lifting weights for years kid. I never said stronglifts dont work but they arent always the best for boxing.... If youre weak then yes, use them, but if your strong on the weights like I am, I just lift high reps and power lifting both, not just one or the other, plus bodyweight exercises, but the main one that works best for me is bodyweight exercises as for boxing "strength".... So dont come in here acting like your some professional power lifter or something and trying to talk ****, your cleary butt hurt because I called you out for trying to make me look dumb, and trying to say i dont know what im talking about.... Ive lifted weights for years kiddo so why dont you run along and go play in another thread he said he wants people who know what theyre talking about to help him out, and that obviously wouldn't qualify you!

I love how people think that lifting weigths for years automatically makes you an expert on the subject. I've been breathing air my whole life does that mean I'm an expert on it? does that mean I have an in depth understanding of what happens when I breathe in air, and the subsequent chemical reactions.. well actually in this case yes, because I was a biology student but my point still stands.

Boxing 'strength' and 'strength' are the same thing. Boxers do not require excessive strength, but an increase in physical strength is necessary for an increase in power. high rep low weight is only good for hypertrophy and/or muscular endurance training, endurance training should be done at other times, and hypertrophy has no place in boxing.

I notice you said you're strong, which is great, good for you, but in that case lifting with a proper program would make you stronger.

Dirt
04-11-2010, 12:13 PM
i hate the myth about lifting weights slowing you down. maybe its from hypertrpohy. like the guy above said, has no place in boxing, unless you're trying to move up in weight or something.

if you train for speed you will increase it.

chessplayer163
04-11-2010, 02:14 PM
Money May said himself that he only lifts bodyweight stuff. It's the best for boxing. It gives you the best results. Weights is hard on your joints breaks your body down and causes numerous injuries. Bodyweight is actually harder way more reps and cardio. I'm a wrestler and switched to bodyweight stuff and my strength exploded, I drank the weights kool aid too long.

Righthandbanger
04-11-2010, 06:09 PM
Money May said himself that he only lifts bodyweight stuff. It's the best for boxing. It gives you the best results. Weights is hard on your joints breaks your body down and causes numerous injuries. Bodyweight is actually harder way more reps and cardio. I'm a wrestler and switched to bodyweight stuff and my strength exploded, I drank the weights kool aid too long.

1) there is photo evidence online of Mayweather doing weights, he is full of ****

2)bodyweight exercise IS doing weights ffs

3)once you get stronger you will need more weight to stimulate a strength increase, this is why bodyweight exercise is ineffective at anything other than building endurance after a certain point.

4)please present evidence to your assertions that weights damage your body or kindly STFU

chessplayer163
04-11-2010, 06:26 PM
1) there is photo evidence online of Mayweather doing weights, he is full of ****

2)bodyweight exercise IS doing weights ffs

3)once you get stronger you will need more weight to stimulate a strength increase, this is why bodyweight exercise is ineffective at anything other than building endurance after a certain point.

4)please present evidence to your assertions that weights damage your body or kindly STFU

lifting injuries
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSJCDcAKShA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK4L8Nk2ZpA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3poAx...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otqbG...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYklb...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYklb...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI0Zl-tMRf4
__________________


Lifting weights and INJURIES

http://www.straighttothebar.com/2006..._injuries.html

http://www.exercisegoals.com/weight-...-injuries.html

http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/3257 2.6 injuries per 1000 hrs of lifting

Destroys your joints http://www.swis.ca/index.php?option=...1&limitstart=0

Wrecks your shoulder http://www.protraineronline.com/past...3/shoulder.cfm

Lifting cause pain and injuries in lower back, kness, shoulders elbows.
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal...accno=EJ585731

Study in the number of lifting injuries in adolescents http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...tract/72/5/636

How the big lifts deadlift, squat, bench, cause injuries http://www.powerhousegym.co.nz/artic...l_injuries.pdf
__________________

TheNegation
04-11-2010, 09:28 PM
well first off the heavy lifting has to go....heavy lifting is what gains size

Wrong.

Lifting heavy weight is what makes you strong, eating a lot is what makes you big.

And just to go over some other bull**** that is being posted in here....

-Rep Ranges are overrated

-Chessplayer, stop being a ****** and posting videos of individuals using ****ty form along with obscene amounts of weight to try and prove your point. Anyone who uses ****ty form and too much weight is going to suffer injuries. Go suck Mayweather's dick somewhere else.

-Bodyweight Exercises do have a place in everybody's routine whether you are a boxer or not. Weights don't, although they DO help.

-People in here seem to think that lifting light weights for endless reps will work "Fast Twitch Muscle Fibers" when in fact it's the exact opposite.

-The truth is there is no one true method for Strength Training for boxing or any sport simply because no one routine works for everyone.

-If you want my opinion as far as lifting routines for boxing, I'd go with O-Lifting (Power Cleans, Jump Squats, Snatches, Hang Cleans) + Calisthenics.

chessplayer163
04-11-2010, 09:32 PM
Wrong.

Lifting heavy weight is what makes you strong, eating a lot is what makes you big.

And just to go over some other bull**** that is being posted in here....

-Rep Ranges are overrated

-Chessplayer, stop being a ****** and posting videos of individuals using ****ty form along with obscene amounts of weight to try and prove your point. Anyone who uses ****ty form and too much weight is going to suffer injuries. Go suck Mayweather's dick somewhere else.

-Bodyweight Exercises do have a place in everybody's routine whether you are a boxer or not. Weights don't, although they DO help.

-People in here seem to think that lifting light weights for endless reps will work "Fast Twitch Muscle Fibers" when in fact it's the exact opposite.

-The truth is there is no one true method for Strength Training for boxing or any sport simply because no one routine works for everyone.

-If you want my opinion as far as lifting routines for boxing, I'd go with O-Lifting (Power Cleans, Jump Squats, Snatches, Hang Cleans) + Calisthenics.

Ground n pound you need to stop projecting about the homo stuff. Use some intelligence.

Those are OLYMPIC lifters getting injured.

Your views are 80's old school Bigger, Faster, Stronger junk.

Ball sport training is completely different than combat sports.

TheNegation
04-11-2010, 09:41 PM
Ground n pound you need to stop projecting about the homo stuff. Use some intelligence.

Me? Use intelligence? Ha

Says the guy who is too stupid to understand what he is posting and just does google searches to prove his point.


Those are OLYMPIC lifters getting injured.

Using too much weight. No boxer is going to be deadlifting 800lbs, or benching 405, or Clean and Jerking 300lbs.

The reports you are showing are of individuals involved in powerlifting which has always been plagued with injuries because of the weight involved. More weight causes more flaws in form and that causes injuries, not the lift itself.



Your views are 80's old school Bigger, Faster, Stronger junk.

And your views are circa the stone age. You know times change and methods advance. What I'm saying is proven and is used by thousands of athletes today.

Ball sport training is completely different than combat sports.

I never said it wasn't and I'm completely aware it is. If you mean to tell me that Combat Athletes don't do O-Lifts, you're an idiot.

them_apples
04-11-2010, 09:46 PM
Me? Use intelligence? Ha

Says the guy who is too stupid to understand what he is posting and just does google searches to prove his point.




Using too much weight. No boxer is going to be deadlifting 800lbs, or benching 405, or Clean and Jerking 300lbs.

The reports you are showing are of individuals involved in powerlifting which has always been plagued with injuries because of the weight involved. More weight causes more flaws in form and that causes injuries, not the lift itself.





And your views are circa the stone age. You know times change and methods advance. What I'm saying is proven and is used by thousands of athletes today.



I never said it wasn't and I'm completely aware it is. If you mean to tell me that Combat Athletes don't do O-Lifts, you're an idiot.

You can target your fast twitch fibers by doing anything explosive. So you could technically use high reps on certain things. A lot boxers train speed by doing burpees, sometimes in sets of 50. It's an exersize that requires explosivity. I've seen Pacquiao doing burpees with a medacine ball (harder variation).

I think the only reason that heavy lifting increases speed is it forces the user to push as hard as he can and almost "jerk" it up.

Although i'm not disagreeing with what you said, i know a lot of the things you post are what MMa fighters do. There is not a single MMA fighter that impresses me with his athleticism. (although Shaun Sherk did for a bit, but he was caught roiding). Even GSP isn't looking that fast these days, but the respect the guy cause he's the only person in the ufc who takes his job seriously. I think a lot of the stuff you post isn't really ideal for a boxer.

You accused me of not knowing anything, but really - your style of training isn't great for any striking sport at all. I guess like you said different things work for different people. All in a days work..

Phenomkidd
04-11-2010, 11:41 PM
Don't come to a boxing forum to learn how to get stronger is what it seems since everyone is ignoring what me, GSP, dirt, righthand banger, and some others have been spouting for a while now.

kryo
04-12-2010, 01:06 AM
Edit: Just saw that you said you can't do squats because you don't have the flexibility, but you can perform DB Shoulder Presses fine? That's wrong dude. Either you aren't doing DB Shoulder Presses correctly or you aren't putting the effort into squatting because they require around the exact same flexibility.

Read first couple of posts and face palmed, why do some of you idiots ****ing post this trash?

High reps and low weight does little to NOTHING when it comes to gaining power, all it does is work your MUSCULAR ENDURANCE.

Hypertrophy (muscle mass) may come at ANY REP SCHEME, regardless if you're lifting heavy and low reps or lifting light and high reps.. all it comes down to is IF YOU ARE EATING TO GAIN MASS. You can do ANY workout and gain nothing if you don't ****ing eat for it. With that said, if you are specifically seeking STRENGTH gains:

1 TO 5 REPS. That means you lift HEAVY weight up to 5 reps per set. This is a complete shock to your CNS and promotes the optimum amount of strength gains. You do not want to specifically increase reps past 5 because then hypertrophy becomes more prominent. (That's why BODY BUILDERS lift between 6-12 reps per set.. because it promotes hypertrophy.. and POWER LIFTERS/Olympic lifters WHO CANNOT AFFORD TO GAIN WEIGHT OR THEY MUST BUMP UP WEIGHT CLASSES lift in the 1-5 rep range.)

If you want an overall workout, search Bill Starr's 5x5. He is an ex football strength and conditioning coach and his program is WORLD RENOWNED.

http://www.wackyhq.com/madcow5x5/geocities/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

Read, read, read!!!

The absolute basics of this program are:

Monday -

Squats, Bench, Barbell Row

Wednesday -

Squats, Incline Bench, Deadlift

Friday -

Squats, Bench, Barbell Row

Read the testimony's and research peoples workout logs if you don't believe how well this workout works. It's designed to increase your major four lifts (deadlift, squat, bench, and barbell row) up to 15% in NINE WEEKS. (Yeah, ****ing NINE. Most people are lucky to increase lifts 2.5% in nine weeks.)

Cliffs:

1) People don't know what the **** they are talking about.
2) Light weight and high reps is for *****ES and accomplishes NOTHING when it comes to strength gains.
3) Olympian Lifters + Power Lifters compete in weight classes and increase strength by doing 1-5 reps WITHOUT GAINING MASS.
4) Research Bill Starr's 5x5 program.

Righthandbanger
04-12-2010, 04:36 AM
You can target your fast twitch fibers by doing anything explosive. So you could technically use high reps on certain things. A lot boxers train speed by doing burpees, sometimes in sets of 50. It's an exersize that requires explosivity. I've seen Pacquiao doing burpees with a medacine ball (harder variation).
I think the only reason that heavy lifting increases speed is it forces the user to push as hard as he can and almost "jerk" it up.

exercises intended to increase speed/agility/power are heavily dependednt on training the nervous system. they are generally not done in high reps because fatigue is a limiting factor in these movements. burpees are done for conditioning.

the reason weights increase your power is because you are combining more force with the same speed - the only way an onlympic lifter is gonna get that weight above his head is if he is real ****ign fast and real ****ing strong.



Although i'm not disagreeing with what you said, i know a lot of the things you post are what MMa fighters do. There is not a single MMA fighter that impresses me with his athleticism. (although Shaun Sherk did for a bit, but he was caught roiding). Even GSP isn't looking that fast these days, but the respect the guy cause he's the only person in the ufc who takes his job seriously. I think a lot of the stuff you post isn't really ideal for a boxer.
their athletecism doesn't impress you? oh well in that case I guess we better stop the whole sport.

the qualities required in combat athletes are pretty similar no matter what you're doing. the only difference is that grapplers require more physical strength. all combat sports require a degree of physical strength and explosive power.

You accused me of not knowing anything, but really - your style of training isn't great for any striking sport at all. I guess like you said different things work for different people. All in a days work..

the old-school attitude about weigths and boxing is unfortunately strong with you sir

alza1988
04-12-2010, 04:45 AM
http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/strengthtraining.html

Righthandbanger
04-12-2010, 04:56 AM
http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/strengthtraining.html

seeing as you posted something that is actually useful its pretty likely that the boneheads in this forum will ignore it

hateinyaeyes32
04-12-2010, 05:15 AM
seeing as you posted something that is actually useful its pretty likely that the boneheads in this forum will ignore it
You cant say something is useful for everyone, is the point Ive been trying to make to you... Yeah, I lift heavyweights, and light weights, I try to do as many different exercises and variations of them as I can, simply because the more you try the better your odd's of improving are... But some people like to stick with what works for them best...

Righthandbanger
04-13-2010, 07:53 AM
You cant say something is useful for everyone, is the point Ive been trying to make to you... Yeah, I lift heavyweights, and light weights, I try to do as many different exercises and variations of them as I can, simply because the more you try the better your odd's of improving are... But some people like to stick with what works for them best...

the point I'm making is you dont need so many exercises. look at how your body moves in boxing. the closest movements you can get to replicate these are

squat variations
bench
overhead press
deadlift variations
rows
dips
chinups
pressups
russian twists (pretty much any ab exercise is ok)
any clean and jerk variation.
neck raises/bridges

that is pretty much every exercise you will ever need, and you wont need to use all of them at once if you follow a proper program. as I have said before, strength isnt so much about training the muscles as the central nervous system. therefore your body should be using exercises that bear the most resemblances to your sport. in these circumstances useless exercises include:

curls
flys
shrugs
tricep extensions
quad extensions
the pec deck

PhaNToM BRAWL3R
04-13-2010, 07:47 PM
poor workout buddy , before yu start yu shud realistically decide wht yu want ur body to look like and weigh. its hard to gain strength without getting bigger so i would jus go on a bulk 4 maybe 9 months nd then change to a lean diet. train no more than 5 days a week. exercises should include :

incline bench press, flat db press, clean and jerk press, behind the head shoulder press, wide grip pull ups , bent over rows , deadlifts, squats , rocky sit-ups. basically power movements.
good luck.