View Full Version : How bad did the loss to Leonard hurt Hagler


sonnyboyx2
04-03-2010, 08:30 AM
Hagler thought all he had to do was `turn up and knock him out`yet he was beaten to the punch, laughed at, bolo-punched and made to look very ordinary by Sugar Ray Leonard.. now 23yrs on most boxing fans admit that Leonard was the winner, but how bad did losing that fight hurt Marvelous Marvin Hagler.

#1Assassin
04-03-2010, 08:40 AM
witf is a "polo" punch? :rofl:

sonnyboyx2
04-03-2010, 08:43 AM
witf is a "polo" punch? :rofl:

a minty punch with a hole in the middle :rofl:

SpecialOne
04-03-2010, 08:49 AM
Hagler was on the verge of retiring before he even fought leonard

I dunno if it hurt his career but emotionally he wanted to beat him and he didnt

QuietOne
04-03-2010, 09:56 AM
He's still an all-time great, but I think it hurt his legacy a lot.

He was the reigning middleweight champion, one of the best P4P fighters in the world and lost to a welterweight who hadn't fought in three years. Not good.

Snopkins
04-03-2010, 10:28 AM
Hagler went into seclusion for months after the fight and wouldn't be seen or heard from again until his wife went to court to get a restraining order against him after he allegedly abused her.She also claimed that he had cried over the loss and that he had become addicted to cocaine and alcohol.



I'd say it hurt him very much.

Southpaw16BF
04-03-2010, 10:53 AM
Hagler went into seclusion for months after the fight and wouldn't be seen or heard from again until his wife went to court to get a restraining order against him after he allegedly abused her.She also claimed that he had cried over the loss and that he had become addicted to cocaine and alcohol.



I'd say it hurt him very much.

Source for this????

Joey Giardello
04-03-2010, 11:25 AM
Hagler thought all he had to do was `turn up and knock him out`yet he was beaten to the punch, laughed at, bolo-punched and made to look very ordinary by Sugar Ray Leonard.. now 23yrs on most boxing fans admit that Leonard was the winner, but how bad did losing that fight hurt Marvelous Marvin Hagler.

That loss is one of the reason i rate monzon as the greatest middleweight of all time, monzon's sugar ray welterweight champion jose napoles got stopped by king monzon, were as when hagler tuck on his jose napoles former semi retired sugar ray he got outboxed and beaten to the punch

sonnyboyx2
04-03-2010, 12:43 PM
That loss is one of the reason i rate monzon as the greatest middleweight of all time, monzon's sugar ray welterweight champion jose napoles got stopped by king monzon, were as when hagler tuck on his jose napoles former semi retired sugar ray he got outboxed and beaten to the punch

Jose Napoles in no way resembles Ray Leonard, although Monzon was good in my opinion he was far from being the best middleweight of all time, he barely makes the Top 10

Southpaw16BF
04-03-2010, 12:45 PM
Jose Napoles in no way resembles Ray Leonard, although Monzon was good in my opinion he was far from being the best middleweight of all time, he barely makes the Top 10

It's posts like this, were i question you boxing knowlodge.

sonnyboyx2
04-03-2010, 01:00 PM
It's posts like this, were i question you boxing knowlodge.

explain why this post puts into question my knowledge of this sport

them_apples
04-03-2010, 01:13 PM
Hagler thought all he had to do was `turn up and knock him out`yet he was beaten to the punch, laughed at, bolo-punched and made to look very ordinary by Sugar Ray Leonard.. now 23yrs on most boxing fans admit that Leonard was the winner, but how bad did losing that fight hurt Marvelous Marvin Hagler.

man you are biased. Made to look ordinary? I didn't even think SRL won that fight. Leonard has his rounds but Hagler was dealing the real damage.

The fight was close so it wasn't a robbery but you have to beat the champ to be legit.

sonnyboyx2
04-03-2010, 01:16 PM
1/. Ray Robinson
2/. Roy Jones jr.
3/. Harry Grebb
4/. Marcel Cerdan
5/. James Toney
6/. Marvin Hagler
7/. Carmen Basilio
8/. Tony Zale
9/. Carlos Monzon
10/. Bernard Hopkins

honourable mention to Freddie Steels, Stanley Ketchel, Charley Burley, Mickey Walker, Gene Fullmer, Randolph Turpin, Bob Fitzsimmons & Joe Calzaghe

sonnyboyx2
04-03-2010, 01:18 PM
man you are biased. Made to look ordinary? I didn't even think SRL won that fight. Leonard has his rounds but Hagler was dealing the real damage.

The fight was close so it wasn't a robbery but you have to beat the champ to be legit.

biased in what way?

QuietOne
04-03-2010, 01:20 PM
man you are biased. Made to look ordinary? I didn't even think SRL won that fight. Leonard has his rounds but Hagler was dealing the real damage.

The fight was close so it wasn't a robbery but you have to beat the champ to be legit.

So you're saying that, because it was close and you're one of the minority that thought Hagler unofficially won, Leonard didn't become the legit champion?

That right there is pure bias.

them_apples
04-03-2010, 01:23 PM
So you're saying that, because it was close and you're one of the minority that thought Hagler unofficially won, Leonard didn't become the legit champion?

That right there is pure biased.

no i'mnot, it's just my personal opinion that Hagler won. i have no bones about the decision.

What he's biased about is saying Hagler was made to look ordinary. no way in hell did that happen. Leonard looked like he was about to be put away at times. He's acting like Leonard dominated the fight and won a clear cut decision. He's acting like it was Mayweather vs Marquez.

QuietOne
04-03-2010, 01:29 PM
no i'mnot, it's just my personal opinion that Hagler won. i have no bones about the decision.

You said: "The fight was close so it wasn't a robbery but you have to beat the champ to be legit."

You're trying to say that Leonard didn't become the legit champion, because you thought Hagler won the (close) fight unofficially.

What he's biased about is saying Hagler was made to look ordinary. no way in hell did that happen. Leonard looked like he was about to be put away at times. He's acting like Leonard dominated the fight and won a clear cut decision. He's acting like it was Mayweather vs Marquez.

I hope you're not referring to his inactivity at times, as "about to be put away". Because, out of nowhere, he came back with sudden bursts of flurries.

I do agree that it wasn't a lopsided fight, though.

them_apples
04-03-2010, 01:47 PM
You said: "The fight was close so it wasn't a robbery but you have to beat the champ to be legit."

You're trying to say that Leonard didn't become the legit champion, because you thought Hagler won the (close) fight unofficially.



I hope you're not referring to his inactivity at times, as "about to be put away". Because, out of nowhere, he came back with sudden bursts of flurries.

I do agree that it wasn't a lopsided fight, though.

in the highlight reel he came back with bursts of flurries, he didn't do it everytime though. I remember one round where Hagler was laying some serious serious hurt on Leonard.

Like I said though, It's not like I hate on the loss. It was a close fight. Leonard punches often looked nicer. Just IMO Hagler was dealing the damage.

QuietOne
04-03-2010, 01:52 PM
in the highlight reel he came back with bursts of flurries, he didn't do it everytime though. I remember one round where Hagler was laying some serious serious hurt on Leonard.

Like I said though, It's not like I hate on the loss. It was a close fight. Leonard punches often looked nicer. Just IMO Hagler was dealing the damage.

I never thought Leonard was in any serious trouble, at any point in the fight. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, on that. But saying Leonard didn't become the legit champion is low.

Southpaw16BF
04-03-2010, 02:11 PM
1/. Ray Robinson
2/. Roy Jones jr.
3/. Harry Grebb
4/. Marcel Cerdan
5/. James Toney
6/. Marvin Hagler
7/. Carmen Basilio
8/. Tony Zale
9/. Carlos Monzon
10/. Bernard Hopkins

honourable mention to Freddie Steels, Stanley Ketchel, Charley Burley, Mickey Walker, Gene Fullmer, Randolph Turpin, Bob Fitzsimmons & Joe Calzaghe

How can Zale, Basilio, Toney, Cerdan and Jones Jr. Be a greater middle than Monzon?

Monzon made 14 title defences and reigned for 7 years. And retired champion.

How is Basilio a greater Middle, he never even defended the middleweight title and his best weight was 147lb. Jones never even unified and Zale ducked his top contenders, and Cerdan had no longativity at the weight.

Thats the worst list I have ever seen. No mention of Jake Lamotta either?

:wtf1::wtf1:

GJC
04-03-2010, 02:49 PM
How can Zale, Basilio, Toney, Cerdan and Jones Jr. Be a greater middle than Monzon?

Monzon made 14 title defences and reigned for 7 years. And retired champion.

How is Basilio a greater Middle, he never even defended the middleweight title and his best weight was 147lb. Jones never even unified and Zale ducked his top contenders, and Cerdan had no longativity at the weight.

Thats the worst list I have ever seen. No mention of Jake Lamotta either?

:wtf1::wtf1:

I have to say i'd certainly cut Basilio from the MW list, he had 2 great performances against SRR but lost about half his fights at MW. Great welter but don't really put him in with the MW's. If you going on P4P's who fought at MW then Fitz and Langford must rank over him.

Zale was champion in as good an era as there were of MW's but fought few of his competition.

Cerdan I've always liked.

Can't believe Ketchell doesn't make your list Sonny?

Still everyone's list is personal

sonnyboyx2
04-03-2010, 05:06 PM
I have to say i'd certainly cut Basilio from the MW list, he had 2 great performances against SRR but lost about half his fights at MW. Great welter but don't really put him in with the MW's. If you going on P4P's who fought at MW then Fitz and Langford must rank over him.

Zale was champion in as good an era as there were of MW's but fought few of his competition.

Cerdan I've always liked.

Can't believe Ketchell doesn't make your list Sonny?

Still everyone's list is personal

yes Basilio is rightly included on my list, Basilio took part in more "Fights of the year" than any other fighter, he was a fantastic value-for-money crowd pleasing fighter who beat the great Ray Robinson... Stanley Ketchel should rightly make my list but i deliberately left him off and added Hopkins so as to stop the flak from some of the goons who frequent the site.. because a fighter like Monzon made 14 title defences and Cerdan only made the one defence does not IMO make Monzon a greater fighter than Cerdan, in a head-to-head i would take Cerdan to beat Monzon & Hopkins yet Hopkins made 20+ defences.. My list is solely based on who i feel is MY Top 10 greatest middleweights... if Toney was in a head-to-head with Monzon i see Toney beating him, just like all the others i rate above him, could Monzon beat Steele, Ketchel, Fullmer, Calzaghe, Walker... it is not `carved in stone` saying he would... i am not going to get into trashing or calling the career of Carlos Monzon because that is not what this topic is about.. its about Marvin Hagler and his loss to Ray Leonard.. some guy wrote that Monzon was the greatest middleweight in history at which i said he barely makes my Top 10 at which another guy then claimed i know nothing about boxing :rofl:
the reality IMO is that its him who knows nothing about boxing..

One more round
04-03-2010, 05:14 PM
1/. Ray Robinson
2/. Roy Jones jr.
3/. Harry Grebb
4/. Marcel Cerdan
5/. James Toney
6/. Marvin Hagler
7/. Carmen Basilio
8/. Tony Zale
9/. Carlos Monzon
10/. Bernard Hopkins

honourable mention to Freddie Steels, Stanley Ketchel, Charley Burley, Mickey Walker, Gene Fullmer, Randolph Turpin, Bob Fitzsimmons & Joe Calzaghe

that list is confusing and inconsistent, much like the rest of your posts

One more round
04-03-2010, 05:17 PM
How is Roy #2

I love JT but Idk about him being #5, if he makes it he deserves to be on the cusp of the 10. Monzon at #9??? He was arguably the best MW ever! RJJ ahead of Hagler? :ugh: Hopkins at #10? deserves to be higher.

carlos slim
04-03-2010, 08:50 PM
wjesus sonnyboy.. what a chaotic mess....toney, basilio burley calzaghe belong no where near a top 10 atg list....

Snopkins
04-04-2010, 02:15 AM
Source for this????

Marvelous Marvin Hagler is in a fight in which there can be no winner. The former world middleweight champion will oppose his wife Bertha's attempt to obtain temporary custody of their children in Hingham District Court today, Hagler's attorney said yesterday.

Bertha Hagler filed a family abuse petition Friday seeking custody of the children and a restraining order prohibiting Hagler access to their Hanover home. Bertha Hagler filed the civil petition "to let the court know she fears physical harm," a court officer said yesterday.

One of Hagler's associates said yesterday that Bertha may have sought the court action to snap Hagler out of a depression that came over him after losing his epic match with Sugar Ray Leonard in April. Since the fight, Hagler has had sporadic contact with family, friends and business associates.




http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/boston/access/59507556.html?dids=59507556:59507556&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Jul+01%2C+1987&author=Steven+Marantz%2C+Globe+Staff&pub=Boston+Globe+(pre-1997+Fulltext)&desc=HAGLER+HEADS+TO+COURT+IN+A+FIGHT+FOR+CUSTODY&pqatl=google



The estranged wife of Marvelous Marvin Hagler has demanded that the former middleweight champion seek treatment for cocaine and alcohol abuse before he is allowed to return home, a Boston television station reported Thursday.


http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/orlandosentinel/access/93045565.html?dids=93045565:93045565&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Jul+04%2C+1987&author=Compiled+by+Derek+Catron&pub=Orlando+Sentinel&desc=HAGLER'S+WIFE+DEMANDS+THAT+BOXER+SEEK+DRUG+TR EATMENT&pqatl=google


When they returned home to Hanover, Hagler was an emotional wreck. "He cried a lot," Bertha says. "I got him to talk about it a little. He felt he did get robbed. He said, 'I'll never be able to get my life and marriage together until I get my belts back.' " In the end, she says, he grew colder and more remote.

"I was trying to get him to talk to me," Bertha says. "He'd say, 'I don't want to talk about it.' I'd say, 'You have to talk about it. You can't go on like this.' It was frustrating for me because I couldn't get to him. The more I tried, the more distant he became." Hagler grew further from her, physically as well as emotionally. He spent more time away from home. "I thought, Maybe he'll wake up and find there's more to life than drinking and partying," she says.

She believes that her husband's central problem was the outcome of the fight and that he remains angry with her and the Petronellis over it. "He's bitter toward all three of us," she says. "He's going to have to come down to reality. He knows the mistakes he made in this fight, and he has to deal with them."

The differences between Marvin and Bertha became public in late June, when Bertha filed an abuse petition in Hingham (Mass.) District Court that claimed, "Marvin threw me out of the house. He pushed me. He hit the car with a boulder. I am in fear of him." A judge issued a temporary order barring Hagler from their house and gave Bertha custody of their five children, for the time being. Hagler did not contest the order and moved to an apartment in Boston. The incident was, she says, the first and only time he had ever been violent with her. And now she thinks she may have acted too hastily.

The story made all the papers, of course, but that was only the beginning. A few days later, sports anchor John Dennis of WNEV-TV in Boston reported that Hagler was involved in "widespread abuse of both alcohol and cocaine." Dennis went on to say: "Those closest to Marvin Hagler say it was that decision on April 6 that started him on the downward spiral. Almost immediately after his return home to Boston, they [friends and family] say Marvin's despair over the loss steered him toward alcohol and cocaine."

Dennis, an old friend of Hagler's, insisted his sources were solid. "They came to me," he said.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1066497/3/index.htm

gibo
04-04-2010, 04:39 AM
Same as the loss leonard suffered to Hector Macho Camacho. But worse, leonard got KO'D

Tuggers1986
04-04-2010, 05:09 AM
no i'mnot, it's just my personal opinion that Hagler won. i have no bones about the decision.

What he's biased about is saying Hagler was made to look ordinary. no way in hell did that happen. Leonard looked like he was about to be put away at times. He's acting like Leonard dominated the fight and won a clear cut decision. He's acting like it was Mayweather vs Marquez.

I agree with you.

People have argued for years about who won that fight. Yet the thread starter said Leoanrd made Hagler look ordinary.

How the fcuk did he make him look ordinary when a hell of a lot of people believe Hagler won the fight.

HaglerSteelChin
04-05-2010, 12:00 AM
The whole hagler vs leonard is like beating a dead horse. The fight was won in the negtiation table when SRL got to pick his gloves, ring size, and made sure it was 12 rds instead of 15. Hagler wanted leonard earlier in his career. The fact is that both of them were good friends until the fight.

I believe after the Tony Sibson fight or around that time hagler had a fight and he joked with SRL about them having a big payday and getting the fight done. SRL interviewd hagler and did a documentary about Hagler before his second fight with Obeljimas(Sp?), and they were good mates.

After the Roldan fight; hagler practically begged SRL for the fight. SRL after the Howard fight knew he was losing it and retired again.

The accumelative effect of the fights with Roldan, Duran, Hearns , and Mugabi slowed Hagler down. Sure SRL was idle but he didnt take those beatings and his body recovered. Also Hagler's age has always been in question? Some say he was atleast 4 years older than his reported age.
I have some of his early fights against Watts and Cyclone Hart; he looks older than 22 in 1976.

The bottom line is that SRL won the split decision. I don't think SRL won all the early Rds as people say. Round 3 could have gotten either way; i scored it even and RD 5 cleary went to hagler. Rd12 SRL just danced and Hagler won that easily and i i have winning 7,8, and also 10. So i have hagler winning 5 and one even. So my final score was 115-114 Leonard. RD9 is hard to judge. Hagler had SRL on the ropes but the fact that SRL was able to get off the ropes with flurries and capture the drama made me give him the RD. Some say it was pitty patt but i can tell you they were solid punches.
But i am sure some gave the RD to Hagler.

Richard Steele never took a point away for SRL hitting after the bell which he did several times, if one point is taken away than i have it even and Hagler retains his title.

DeepSleep
04-05-2010, 12:11 AM
How is Roy #2

I love JT but Idk about him being #5, if he makes it he deserves to be on the cusp of the 10. Monzon at #9??? He was arguably the best MW ever! RJJ ahead of Hagler? :ugh: Hopkins at #10? deserves to be higher.

Although I don't agree with Sonny's list I can see his reasoning for some of his picks. I'm pretty sure he picked Roy at #2 not based on his resume but based on the fact that he thinks Roy would beat the others on the list. Same reasoning for Toney.

For example I think Hopkins is the more accomplished MW than Roy Jones Jr. but I think a prime Jones would beat a prime Hopkins fairly easily, which makes me wonder how to actually go about make these lists. Should I rank them based on who accomplished more or who would likely win the most heads up match ups?

Snopkins
04-05-2010, 04:01 AM
Some say he was atleast 4 years older than his reported age.




fail


Hagler was an exceptional amateur. He told a stretcher about his age, adding two years so he could start fighting sooner. It wasn't until last spring***8212;when everyone thought he was 30 years old***8212;that the truth came out. When he legally changed his name from Marvin Nathaniel Hagler to Marvelous Marvin Hagler, the date of his birth was certified in court. "I'd appreciate it if you'd write that I am 30," he told a reporter then, seeming a little embarrassed, but by that time the truth was in all the papers.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1126023/4/index.htm

mickey malone
04-05-2010, 08:03 AM
Lol at this bait thread.. Giving an opportunity for Snotkins to get off the subject of boxing and lay into someones personal life.. So typical of the *****.

Now I'll get accused of robbing my parents lol..

TOBYLEE1
04-05-2010, 09:14 AM
Didn't hurt him at all. The debate still continues in who won. I favor Hagler, I don't give the fight for flurries in the end of the rounds to try to steal it but that is just me. No different from SRL/Hearns II, if you like SRL he can do no wrong and he will be favored.

T3dBundy
04-05-2010, 09:23 AM
Didn't hurt him at all. The debate still continues in who won. I favor Hagler, I don't give the fight for flurries in the end of the rounds to try to steal it but that is just me. No different from SRL/Hearns II, if you like SRL he can do no wrong and he will be favored.

its just a poor way of discrediting someones victory by saying it could have gone either way, in this case it doesnt work, because leonard clearly deserved the decision more than hagler did.

TOBYLEE1
04-05-2010, 09:46 AM
its just a poor way of discrediting someones victory by saying it could have gone either way, in this case it doesnt work, because leonard clearly deserved the decision more than hagler did.

I was suprised to see SRL after being on idle to come back with speed and being fluid put those quick pitty pat puches didn't impress me. Like I said there is still debate on how the decision went but in the end SRL got the nod. I'm not calling it a robbery either, not descrediting SRL, just the way I percieved it

Snopkins
04-05-2010, 02:39 PM
those quick pitty pat puches didn't impress me.

They're not going to impress someone who has never even seen this fight.







Lol at this bait thread.. Giving an opportunity for Snotkins to get off the subject of boxing and lay into someones personal life.. So typical of the *****.

Now I'll get accused of robbing my parents lol..






bait thread? Are you accusing Sonnyboy of purposely creating this thread just so that I could discredit Hagler? because if you are,that's a very strong accusation to make.


The loss to Leonard did hurt Hagler and I offered sources that proved this.

mickey malone
04-05-2010, 09:34 PM
bait thread? Are you accusing Sonnyboy of purposely creating this thread just so that I could discredit Hagler? because if you are,that's a very strong accusation to make.

The loss to Leonard did hurt Hagler and I offered sources that proved this.

Perhaps I might find myself in court accused of liable lol..

I reckon my old sparring partner's just having a laugh at your expense..

Snopkins
04-06-2010, 03:37 AM
Perhaps I might find myself in court accused of liable lol..

I reckon my old sparring partner's just having a laugh at your expense..



It was you who accused him of creating a bait thread.The only one trolling in this thread so far is you.

mickey malone
04-06-2010, 06:49 AM
It was you who accused him of creating a bait thread.The only one trolling in this thread so far is you.
And it kills two birds with one stone...

Firstly it is common knowledge that Hagler was bitterly upset over the decision, and secondly it puts a stop to your impersonations of a Stone-Loach, which in my opinion far outweighs my qualities as an instigator..

Stone-Loach, being an irrevelvent bottom feeder, often found in the roadside streams of the British Isles.. Besides, you're good fun anyway!

Snopkins
04-06-2010, 07:03 AM
And it kills two birds with one stone...

Firstly it is common knowledge that Hagler was bitterly upset over the decision, and secondly it puts a stop to your impersonations of a Stone-Loach, which in my opinion far outweighs my qualities as an instigator..

Stone-Loach, being an irrevelvent bottom feeder, often found in the roadside streams of the British Isles.. Besides, you're good fun anyway!




Getting bored are we? I don't think you even know what you're posting anymore.


I answered the thread starters question and posted articles of that time in doing so.


What have you done besides your usual trolling?

mickey malone
04-06-2010, 07:16 AM
Getting bored are we? I don't think you even know what you're posting anymore.


I answered the thread starters question and posted articles of that time in doing so.


What have you done besides your usual trolling?
Well we've already contested 'The more knowledgeable poster poll' so would you now like to take the opportunity to create a 'Who's the bigger troll' thread?
I can't be bothered to do one myself, but by all means, please feel free.. It'll be light entertainment at it's best..

Snopkins
04-06-2010, 07:27 AM
Well we've already contested 'The more knowledgeable poster poll' so would you now like to take the opportunity to create a 'Who's the bigger troll' thread?
I can't be bothered to do one myself, but by all means, please feel free.. It'll be light entertainment at it's best..



I can't even remember this thread that you speak of.It's hardly surprising to see someone as insecure as yourself creating such threads.


Stop trolling,malone.Go create your own sad,perverted threads yourself.

TOBYLEE1
04-06-2010, 03:00 PM
They're not going to impress someone who has never even seen this fight.












bait thread? Are you accusing Sonnyboy of purposely creating this thread just so that I could discredit Hagler? because if you are,that's a very strong accusation to make.


The loss to Leonard did hurt Hagler and I offered sources that proved this.

If you say so

HaglerSteelChin
04-06-2010, 09:11 PM
If you say so


Juanita Leonard the wife of Sugar Ray herself said "I thought Hagler won the fight" so if a fighter's own wife think he loss than i am sure Tobylee is entitled to his opinion.

Thread Stealer
04-06-2010, 10:07 PM
wjesus sonnyboy.. what a chaotic mess....toney, basilio burley calzaghe belong no where near a top 10 atg list....

There's nothing outrageous at all at having Burley as a top 10 MW all-time.

Snopkins
04-07-2010, 03:06 PM
Juanita Leonard the EX wife of Sugar Ray herself said "I thought Hagler won the fight" so if a fighter's own wife think he loss than i am sure Tobylee is entitled to his opinion.



There ya go,fixed it for ya.

How many more times will I have to call you out on your lies?

HaglerSteelChin
04-07-2010, 04:09 PM
There ya go,fixed it for ya.

How many more times will I have to call you out on your lies?

How many times do you need to GET BANNED before you get a life?

She WASEN'T DIVORCED when she saw the fight and thought Hagler won.

MRS Slimey LImey, Snopkins, PIZZAPUTAMOFF or Whatever her new name is.


The ***** troll is very sadistic she Keeps coming back for more.

JAB5239
04-07-2010, 05:13 PM
There ya go,fixed it for ya.

How many more times will I have to call you out on your lies?

The fight was in 1987. They didn't divorce till 1990. You're the only liar I see in this thread.

HaglerSteelChin
04-07-2010, 06:01 PM
The fight was in 1987. They didn't divorce till 1990. You're the only liar I see in this thread.

LOL, you hit the nail on the head in the top 10 Snopkins P4P list thread when you said "people bold enough to criticize should be bold enough to make their own list."

This guy has been banned many times and keeps coming for back one reason: To Troll. There are no new informative threads and opinions stated. In a forum, people will disagree and i have respectfully disagreed with posters here and still respect their knowledge. But Snopkins tries to get under your skin with trivial stuff. He won't open himself to criticism but lurks the boards to find anything to troll about.

He mentions i use lies. One of the most debated things about the Hagler vs Leonard is the issue if SRL told Hagler "you beat me man". If you look at the footage SRL did make some comment toward Hagler that if you read lips looks like he said something to that effect. In addition, a HBO microphone has some audible that many have intrepeted as thant. But SRL has denied it and since its debated- I never mentioned it since its not 100% fact. I will given SRL the benefit of the doubt and not his wife AT THE TIME Juanita who said " I thought Hagler Won"- she was there live.

The whole age issue has been bought up as "many" think and i never stated it as fact as the troll indicated. In boxing sometimes age is irrelevant. A guy like Benitez was already pass his prime in his mid 20's as he was fighting since he was 15. Morales is a very old 33 as he many ring wars and when SRL came back he was more fresh than a guy who fought physical wars for like 14 years without any major hiatus. Hagler in a boxing sense was past it when he fought SRL. SRL is my favorite figther but he was too smart to fight Hagler years before as Hagler still retained good hand speed and footwork. The issues of Ring size, glove size, and having it 12 rds instead of 15 are all facts. You better believe if i was off on that that the Troll would mentioned it and put it in big letters to get a reaction.


I give it another week or two before he gets banned again. A new name will surface and than it will get banned again.

Snopkins
04-07-2010, 06:16 PM
She most certainly was divorced when she made that claim,idiots.


Opinions are opinions and lies are lies.Haglersteelchin doesn't seem to know the difference.





The whole age issue has been bought up as "many" think and i never stated it as fact as the troll indicated.In boxing sometimes age is irrelevant.




Don't backtrack on your original post.Hagler's age had never been questioned and yet you suggested that it had been speculated that he was in fact four years older than what was thought.



There's only so much you can learn from wikipedia and boxrec.

carlos slim
04-07-2010, 07:04 PM
Juanita Leonard the wife of Sugar Ray herself said "I thought Hagler won the fight" so if a fighter's own wife think he loss than i am sure Tobylee is entitled to his opinion.

she prolly said that out of spite....she couldnt have believed it at the time because she ran up to ray all happy...if she believed it at the time she wouldve looked like they doged a bullet...

HaglerSteelChin
04-07-2010, 07:16 PM
she prolly said that out of spite....she couldnt have believed it at the time because she ran up to ray all happy...if she believed it at the time she wouldve looked like they doged a bullet...

Yes she probably was happy that he lasted all 12 rounds when she came and kissed him. People were just shocked he survived as even the commentators thought he did much better than they thought possible.

Trinidad looked happy when he got the decision against DLH and Froch also when he got a split decision win against Andre Dirrell. SRL never admitted to losing Hearns in the second fight but years later told Hearns he loss the second fight. I myself still had SRL winning 113-112.

Thread Stealer
04-07-2010, 07:18 PM
When did Juanita say that? After Ray slugged her with a left hook?

Anyway I had the fight even at 114. Don't have a problem with the decision, just the 118-110 card.

carlos slim
04-07-2010, 07:22 PM
Yes she probably was happy that he lasted all 12 rounds when she came and kissed him. People were just shocked he survived as even the commentators thought he did much better than they thought possible.

Trinidad looked happy when he got the decision against DLH and Froch also when he got a split decision win against Andre Dirrell. SRL never admitted to losing Hearns in the second fight but years later told Hearns he loss the second fight. I myself still had SRL winning 113-112.

to me trinidad and froch looked more relieved than anything especially trinidad...if she was just glad he survived 12 rounds she wouldnt have been that happy...she wouldve tried to console him or something....

HaglerSteelChin
04-07-2010, 07:38 PM
Hagler's age had never been questioned


Perhaps you need to wax and clean your troll ears and listen to the commentary of Hagler's fights. The issue was bought up. I even think the commentators were british; hard to think that if that issue was never discussed that people working at the BBC would hear about it. I have those fights on DVD and heard the comments.

There have been stories that he used a different age as an amateur. The story is that he wanted to compete in the Golden Gloves and was only 15 and lied about his age as being 17. It also raises the reverse question- if he was born in 1954 than how was he able to fight in the Golden Gloves in 1969 at age 15?

Does his age matter much? I think the fact that he was fighting guys like Duran, Roldan,Hearns, and Mugabi aged him significantly.

I notice you didn't address any other aspect of my post about the glove size, ring size, and 12 rds instead of 15? Also why didn't the fight take place years ago when Hagler had called him out since the early 1980's?

Also what is your opinion on the HBO microphone picking up the audible "you beat me" was that also something that was just made up in thin air?

Snopkins
04-07-2010, 08:08 PM
Perhaps you need to wax and clean your troll ears and listen to the commentary of Hagler's fights. The issue was bought up. I even think the commentators were british; hard to think that if that issue was never discussed that people working at the BBC would hear about it. I have those fights on DVD and heard the comments.




There have been stories that he used a different age as an amateur. The story is that he wanted to compete in the Golden Gloves and was only 15 and lied about his age as being 17. It also raises the reverse question- if he was born in 1954 than how was he able to fight in the Golden Gloves in 1969 at age 15?

Does his age matter much? I think the fact that he was fighting guys like Duran, Roldan,Hearns, and Mugabi aged him significantly.

I notice you didn't address any other aspect of my post about the glove size, ring size, and 12 rds instead of 15? Also why didn't the fight take place years ago when Hagler had called him out since the early 1980's?

Also what is your opinion on the HBO microphone picking up the audible "you beat me" was that also something that was just made up in thin air?





Perhaps you stop lying.You're making yourself look more stupid through each post.



What part of Hagler lied about his age,adding two years and later being exposed once he legally changed his name in court do you fail to understand?



You brought up his age,so yes,it does matter.Lengthy hiatus's from the ring for a fighter who's greatest assets are his speed and timing are also going to age a fighter....not to mention a three year addiction to cocaine.



Why would I need to address any other aspects of your post? If you want to act as an apologist for Hagler then that's your prerogative.

The last time I checked,Hagler and his team agreed to all of Leonards requests as most,including Hagler himself, felt that it shouldn't have prevented Hagler from doing anything that he could have done in a phone booth,with loaded gloves and an unlimited amount of time to do so.


um......because Leonard was retired.



My opinion is that you just took a quick look on Marvin Hagler's wikipedia page.

HaglerSteelChin
04-07-2010, 09:08 PM
Perhaps you stop lying.You're making yourself look more stupid through each post.



What part of Hagler lied about his age,adding two years and later being exposed once he legally changed his name in court do you fail to understand?



You brought up his age,so yes,it does matter.Lengthy hiatus's from the ring for a fighter who's greatest assets are his speed and timing are also going to age a fighter....not to mention a three year addiction to cocaine.



Why would I need to address any other aspects of your post? If you want to act as an apologist for Hagler then that's your prerogative.

The last time I checked,Hagler and his team agreed to all of Leonards requests as most,including Hagler himself, felt that it shouldn't have prevented Hagler from doing anything that he could have done in a phone booth,with loaded gloves and an unlimited amount of time to do so.


um......because Leonard was retired.



My opinion is that you just took a quick look on Marvin Hagler's wikipedia page.


He agreed reluctantly simply because he would be classified as a "Ducker." Although the fact is that SRL wanted no part of Hagler in his prime. Hagler called him out several times in front of his face. Once after the Roldan fight and SRL said nothing, also i believe after the 2nd fight with Obeljimas in Italy, the fight which was in a vintage theatre. You can't get that info just reading a wiki page or boxrec.

You display Foreman on your signature putting Frazier on queer street but how does Foreman look when a post hiatus Ali was able to destroy him in 8 rds? The same Ali who had already loss to Frazier a few years earlier. Imagine if Foreman was facing the Ali of the Cleveland Williams and Sonny Liston era? Scratch that how about the one from the first Chuvalo fight who took low blow after low blow?

But you just cherry pick to what fits the troll mentality. You think Duran, Hagler, Frazier, and Holmes are garbage. Of course, you wlll find anything to troll on even if it is trivial.

It's not easy to get banned several times from a site. When you were in the past alt you said i was a worthless poster but than cried when 80% of the posters disagreed with you.

You said the age thing was never questioned but that has been exposed, but if i was a liar as you claim i would be banned several times as you have been.

Also to show your ignorance Cocaine is a stimulant and that is why its a banned substance. SRL passed all his medical tests and the fight was sanctioned by the NSAC, you think SRL would have taken the fight if he was having withdrawal?

I never been banned once but you have had several alts in a period of several months- That speaks Volumes as your credibility and worthiness as a poster. I am still on the green even after you threw Red K and called me a "CU*T", but you are swarmed with Red.

mickey malone
04-07-2010, 10:28 PM
I can't even remember this thread that you speak of.It's hardly surprising to see someone as insecure as yourself creating such threads.


Stop trolling,malone.Go create your own sad,perverted threads yourself.
It was a poll, me vs the Alts = You.. And You got his arse kicked..

And i see other posters have created similar polls, exposing your stupidity..

It's common knowledge that Hagler's age is controversial.. So are the age's of Sonny Liston, Archie Moore and Dennis Andries.. Hagler falls into the same category and there'll be several others too.. It wasn't at all uncommon for fighters to lie (or helped to lie) about their ages in order to progress more quickly..

I see you got the dates of Leonard's divorce in a mucking fuddle aswell..

tua champ
04-07-2010, 11:23 PM
won the hardest fight of all, staying outta the ring!

Ziggy Stardust
04-07-2010, 11:52 PM
I see you got the dates of Leonard's divorce in a mucking fuddle aswell..

What doesn't the cucking funt muddle up? :dunno:

Poet

Snopkins
04-08-2010, 06:57 AM
He agreed reluctantly simply because he would be classified as a "Ducker." Although the fact is that SRL wanted no part of Hagler in his prime. Hagler called him out several times in front of his face. Once after the Roldan fight and SRL said nothing, also i believe after the 2nd fight with Obeljimas in Italy, the fight which was in a vintage theatre. You can't get that info just reading a wiki page or boxrec. .



He agreed because he was given more money.There was no reluctancy on Haglers part to take even more money for what should have been a certain win.


Here's a fact for you........ Ray Leonard was retired.




You display Foreman on your signature putting Frazier on queer street but how does Foreman look when a post hiatus Ali was able to destroy him in 8 rds? The same Ali who had already loss to Frazier a few years earlier. Imagine if Foreman was facing the Ali of the Cleveland Williams and Sonny Liston era? Scratch that how about the one from the first Chuvalo fight who took low blow after low blow?



And this is relevant to this topic how exactly?


But you just cherry pick to what fits the troll mentality. You think Duran, Hagler, Frazier, and Holmes are garbage. Of course, you wlll find anything to troll on even if it is trivial.



I claimed they were garbage did I? Then you should have no problem in digging up a post in which I did make such a claim.


It's not easy to get banned several times from a site. When you were in the past alt you said i was a worthless poster but than cried when 80% of the posters disagreed with you.




I called you a worthless poster and to this you reacted by creating a childish thread to try and get more posters on your side.


It didn't belong in the history section and served as nothing but a boost for your E ego.





You said the age thing was never questioned but that has been exposed, but if i was a liar as you claim i would be banned several times as you have been.




Why would you have been banned? You don't get banned for lying.


Hagler's age has been confirmed.Your ignorance and constant lies has been exposed in this thread.


Also to show your ignorance Cocaine is a stimulant and that is why its a banned substance. SRL passed all his medical tests and the fight was sanctioned by the NSAC, you think SRL would have taken the fight if he was having withdrawal?




Leonard admitted his usage of the drug during the mid 1980's when in retirement.






I never been banned once but you have had several alts in a period of several months- That speaks Volumes as your credibility and worthiness as a poster. I am still on the green even after you threw Red K and called me a "CU*T", but you are swarmed with Red.




Get over it princess.I don't care if you have a little pretty green bar.None of this is relevant to the topic that is being discussed either way.



It was a poll, me vs the Alts = You.. And You got his arse kicked..

And i see other posters have created similar polls, exposing your stupidity..

It's common knowledge that Hagler's age is controversial.. So are the age's of Sonny Liston, Archie Moore and Dennis Andries.. Hagler falls into the same category and there'll be several others too.. It wasn't at all uncommon for fighters to lie (or helped to lie) about their ages in order to progress more quickly..

I see you got the dates of Leonard's divorce in a mucking fuddle aswell..





Congratulations,malone.You won a popularity contest on teh interwebz.



I have provided a source which confirms Hagler's age.You speculating over something that has already been proven is a huge fail on your part.



I'm happy that the bully boy posters have finally stopped harassing you now.It seems you finally grew a back bone once they left you alone.


Now you can bend over and tie your shoes anytime you want.




Ray Leonard and his wife divorced in 1990.She said she thought Hagler had won in the beyond the glory feature on Ray Leonard which was made in 2004.

mickey malone
04-08-2010, 08:46 AM
Snopkins Ray Leonard and his wife divorced in 1990.She said she thought Hagler had won in the beyond the glory feature on Ray Leonard which was made in 2004.

Oh I see, the opinion of a woman spurned, 17 years after the event took place.. How interesting lol.

Argentine
04-11-2010, 01:18 AM
It hurt him very much.
Remember:Monzon destroy wwchamp matequilla napoles,and Hagler had problems with LW duran and loss ww leonard.....
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