View Full Version : Carlos Monzon Vs Jake LaMotta


NChristo
04-02-2010, 12:26 PM
Was looking at some Monzon vids and LaMottas name came up a few times in the comments and I was thinking about what would of happened if they both fought, both men have amazing jaws and LaMottas bullying style would of pushed Monzon around but I think Monzon had too many weapons to fight LaMotta with and would of kept the Bull away with his Jab and piercing right, winning by U.D.
(Perhaps a repeat of the Valdez fight ?)

Who does everyone think wins and how ?

Joey Giardello
04-02-2010, 12:50 PM
Was looking at some Monzon vids and LaMottas name came up a few times in the comments and I was thinking about what would of happened if they both fought, both men have amazing jaws and LaMottas bullying style would of pushed Monzon around but I think Monzon had too many weapons to fight LaMotta with and would of kept the Bull away with his Jab and piercing right, winning by U.D.
(Perhaps a repeat of the Valdez fight ?)

Who does everyone think wins and how ?

Monzon would counter punch jake all night, he would be made for monzon's style it would be a bit like the 2nd bennie brisco fight, monzon puting on a boxing master class on the backfoot

Mannie Phresh
04-19-2011, 11:48 PM
lamottas chin and extremely underrated jab would have overcame and won against monzon by a late rd knockout. was about to make a thread on this then found yours lol.

IronDanHamza
04-19-2011, 11:59 PM
As TS put it; Monzon has too many weapons for Lamotta.

Lamotta will bully and rough him up and make some rounds unbearable to score. But Monzon eventually gets into a rhtyhm and outboxes him to a UD or maybe even an SD depending on how effective Lamotta can be at roughing up Monzon.

Mannie Phresh
04-20-2011, 12:01 AM
f@ck the rest of the threads im in here tonigt its the most interesting subject in boxing to me right now besides ortiz lol

Mannie Phresh
04-20-2011, 12:05 AM
As TS put it; Monzon has too many weapons for Lamotta.

Lamotta will bully and rough him up and make some rounds unbearable to score. But Monzon eventually gets into a rhtyhm and outboxes him to a UD or maybe even an SD depending on how effective Lamotta can be at roughing up Monzon.

who did lamotta get out boxxed by? the greatest boxer ever sugar ray robinson so i always feel that lamotta is summed up to easily as an ironed chinned lummox. he actually has alot of boxing iq it just didnt matter much before robinson. he had a beautiful bob and weave, an excellent jab, and much better combinations than are ever brought up. tell me the weaknesses you feel lamotta brings to the monzon fight.

IronDanHamza
04-20-2011, 12:34 AM
who did lamotta get out boxxed by? the greatest boxer ever sugar ray robinson so i always feel that lamotta is summed up to easily as an ironed chinned lummox. he actually has alot of boxing iq it just didnt matter much before robinson. he had a beautiful bob and weave, an excellent jab, and much better combinations than are ever brought up. tell me the weaknesses you feel lamotta brings to the monzon fight.

In the first Lamotta-Dauthille fight Lamotta was effecitvely outboxed. Laurent Dauthille was also outboxing Jake Lamotta in impressive fashion in their second fight until the amazing turn around in the dieing seconds of the 15th round.

Tommy Yarosz was said to be successfully outboxing Lamotta in spots during their fight in the late 1940's.

Fritzie Zivic was said to have successfully outboxed Lamotta in their second meeting although Lamotta's forcefull approach made it a closer fight in the later rounds.

I don't think outboxing Jake Lamotta is the most difficult task in the world. Sure, as I have stated his mauling bullish style makes it hard for almost any fighter to beat him convincingly. Ray Robinson struggled to beat him convincgly most of the time, which says alot.

Yeah, he had subtle skills and was able to get inside of fighters very well and avoid alot of shots very well on the inside at times, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Jake Lamotta is no Roberto Duran, he takes a hell of a lot of shots and isn't always to bothered about taking one to give three. He is the 'Raging Bull' after all.

Against Monzon, that's exactly what I see. Lamotta's bullish approach trying to bully him and rough him up, willing to take two to give three and having success on him.

But eventually, Monzon's excellent jab and skills will get into rythm and he will effectively outbox him to a close but clear descion. With some rounds being unbearable to score. JMO.

JAB5239
04-20-2011, 12:39 AM
who did lamotta get out boxxed by? the greatest boxer ever sugar ray robinson so i always feel that lamotta is summed up to easily as an ironed chinned lummox. he actually has alot of boxing iq it just didnt matter much before robinson. he had a beautiful bob and weave, an excellent jab, and much better combinations than are ever brought up. tell me the weaknesses you feel lamotta brings to the monzon fight.

Lamotta was great, to that there is no doubt. But if lesser fighters such as Zivic and Dauthille could outbox Jake than I can't see any reason the much better Monzon couldn't.

IronDanHamza
04-20-2011, 12:43 AM
Lamotta was great, to that there is no doubt. But if lesser fighters such as Zivic and Dauthille could outbox Jake than I can't see any reason the much better Monzon couldn't.

Which is pretty much where my I am going with my post. In as many words :lol1:

Mannie Phresh
04-20-2011, 12:50 AM
so your saying saying dauthille and zivic put a clinic? and by that questionable statement monzon does the same? a guy who has blinders on when hes pressured?

JAB5239
04-20-2011, 01:00 AM
so your saying saying dauthille and zivic put a clinic? and by that questionable statement monzon does the same? a guy who has blinders on when hes pressured?

Who said anything about a clinic? The fact remains though that lesser fighters than Monzon outboxed LaMotta. Is that not a true statement my friend?

Mannie Phresh
04-20-2011, 01:03 AM
Who said anything about a clinic? The fact remains though that lesser fighters than Monzon outboxed LaMotta. Is that not a true statement my friend?

out boxxed to a degree. what im saying is that monzon had ego in the ring and would have easily been drug into a war with lamotta. one he would have lost.

JAB5239
04-20-2011, 01:13 AM
out boxxed to a degree. what im saying is that monzon had ego in the ring and would have easily been drug into a war with lamotta. one he would have lost.

You're giving Monzon no credit. He was a master at controlling the pace of a fight with his long jab and straight right. He'd enjoy significant advantages in height and particularly reach.If LaMotta couldn't bully less skilled fighters I can't see how he would do it to arguably the greatest middleweight ever.

IronDanHamza
04-20-2011, 01:23 AM
so your saying saying dauthille and zivic put a clinic? and by that questionable statement monzon does the same? a guy who has blinders on when hes pressured?

Well, no, that isn't what I said. I suggest you read through it again more thoroughly.

I said they succesfully outboxed Jake Lamotta, which they did. He was also outboxed in many occasions in spots during many of his fights. The fights I referred to in my post being a few examples.

This gives me every reason to believe Monzon is atleast more than capable of outboxing Jake Lamotta.

Monzon has dealt with pressure successfully on many occasions and would do so with Jake Lamotta, IMO.

Like I said on every one of my posts, I believe Lamotta makes this a close fight to a degree and I don't believe Monzon shuts out Lamotta by any stretch of the imagination. But, Monzon has more than the ability to outbox him and I believe that he would outbox him to a descion. Which really isn't a prediction that is out of the ordinary.

I don't see Monzon stopping Lamotta nor do I see Lamotta stopping Monzon.

Monzon may well trade with Lamotta at times, but no way does he make it a war, he's too smart for that.

Mannie Phresh
04-20-2011, 01:39 AM
just so i make myself clear i dont think lamotta beats hagler. this isnt any kind of set up for that. again i think lamottas abilities are being down played against monzons. yes he has a great 1 2 but lamotta has a great bob and weave with a roll. it isnt a foregone conclusion to say monzon outboxes him. and again he has pride and lamotta of all boxers could gode him into a battle and win.

Barn
04-20-2011, 04:33 AM
Monzon Competitive UD.

Too good a boxer/puncher and his style would be horrible for LaMotta.

1-2 as he's coming in then a step back uppercut/hook. Move of to the side and rinse and repeat for the most part. Although Jake roughs him up a bit Monzon still wins an easily called yet competitive decision.

New England
04-21-2011, 11:01 PM
Was looking at some Monzon vids and LaMottas name came up a few times in the comments and I was thinking about what would of happened if they both fought, both men have amazing jaws and LaMottas bullying style would of pushed Monzon around but I think Monzon had too many weapons to fight LaMotta with and would of kept the Bull away with his Jab and piercing right, winning by U.D.
(Perhaps a repeat of the Valdez fight ?)

Who does everyone think wins and how ?




monzon would be able to stake out the center of the ring and outpoint him rather easily in my eyes. he was every bit of the ring general.
the fight might end up being closer than the cards would lead on... if that makes any sense... monzon would likely win close rounds


and if he had to stop and fight he could rely on his chin and vastly superior punching power. he really could crack to the body and the head


nobody is getting stopped, i'd be confident of that
maybe ten rounds to five for shotgun monzon

BennyST
04-21-2011, 11:11 PM
lamottas chin and extremely underrated jab would have overcame and won against monzon by a late rd knockout. was about to make a thread on this then found yours lol.

Lamotta was not nearly a big enough puncher to knock out or stop Monzon who had one of the great chins and wills of all time.

It would be a close fight, but if we're talking the prime champion version of Monzon then I believe he would win. In fact, I don't think there are more than one or two middleweights in history who could beat a prime Monzon.

He had everything needed to really beat Lamotta up over a fight, even though it would be a 'close' fight. Great boxing skill, long, powerful, sneaky jab, could fight like hell whenever Lamotta got inside and could fight as effectively off the front and back foot. His stamina was also amazing and he would start off outboxing Lamotta early on before finding his rhythm and piling up the points early and then through the middle rounds. His jab would be pumping nonstop as Lamotta walked in and then as Jake leans down to slip one, in comes the long right. This would happen over and over, and when Lamotta does get in, a combination right, hook, uppercut or multiple jabs, right would be waiting. Monzon was not adverse to tying up when he needed to and really had everything needed to beat Lamotta.

I really feel though that there is no way in hell Lamotta would or could stop Monzon.

Monzon by a reasonably wide UD in a close fight nonetheless...just not on the scorecards.

Edit: I noticed you kept saying Lamotta's skills are being underrated and overlooked. If you are underrating anyone's skill here, it is Monzon's great ability to adjust to the fight needed to beat whoever is across from him whether that means to box someone off the backfoot or brawl. He was equally adept at both and better than 99% of fighters at both too. Most of the fight would be Monzon outboxing, outfoxing Lamotta. Monzon was a true master and ring general at controlling pace, distance and style. There would be times when Lamotta felt the need to simply throw caution to the wind and go for it. It is here that he would lose though and it wouldn't phase Monzon who would just keep chugging along and move into brawler mode as seamlessly as if he was the brawler and Lamotta the boxer.

It's why Monzon is very arguably the greatest middleweight of all time....above Robinson, Hagler, Lamotta, Hopkins etc etc.

JAB5239
04-22-2011, 04:03 AM
Lamotta was not nearly a big enough puncher to knock out or stop Monzon who had one of the great chins and wills of all time.

It would be a close fight, but if we're talking the prime champion version of Monzon then I believe he would win. In fact, I don't think there are more than one or two middleweights in history who could beat a prime Monzon.

He had everything needed to really beat Lamotta up over a fight, even though it would be a 'close' fight. Great boxing skill, long, powerful, sneaky jab, could fight like hell whenever Lamotta got inside and could fight as effectively off the front and back foot. His stamina was also amazing and he would start off outboxing Lamotta early on before finding his rhythm and piling up the points early and then through the middle rounds. His jab would be pumping nonstop as Lamotta walked in and then as Jake leans down to slip one, in comes the long right. This would happen over and over, and when Lamotta does get in, a combination right, hook, uppercut or multiple jabs, right would be waiting. Monzon was not adverse to tying up when he needed to and really had everything needed to beat Lamotta.

I really feel though that there is no way in hell Lamotta would or could stop Monzon.

Monzon by a reasonably wide UD in a close fight nonetheless...just not on the scorecards.

Edit: I noticed you kept saying Lamotta's skills are being underrated and overlooked. If you are underrating anyone's skill here, it is Monzon's great ability to adjust to the fight needed to beat whoever is across from him whether that means to box someone off the backfoot or brawl. He was equally adept at both and better than 99% of fighters at both too. Most of the fight would be Monzon outboxing, outfoxing Lamotta. Monzon was a true master and ring general at controlling pace, distance and style. There would be times when Lamotta felt the need to simply throw caution to the wind and go for it. It is here that he would lose though and it wouldn't phase Monzon who would just keep chugging along and move into brawler mode as seamlessly as if he was the brawler and Lamotta the boxer.

It's why Monzon is very arguably the greatest middleweight of all time....above Robinson, Hagler, Lamotta, Hopkins etc etc.

Great post from a great poster! :fing02:

Steak
04-22-2011, 04:48 AM
I imagine Monzon would win most the rounds, but have trouble in all of them, in a tiring but very clear decision.

Monzon was a very crafty and composed fighter, and would have a variety of weapons to keep LaMotta off of him and prevent being smothered. someone like LaMotta would always be there the entire night trying to dig into his midsection throughout, but I just cant see him winning against someone who fought as smart and skilled as Monzon.