View Full Version : Japanes fighters need to train other places...


kaps
03-31-2010, 11:22 PM
I think if a japanese fighter is going to win a championship in the US they need to train with an American/Canadian team. There just isn't enough top competition in Japan for a fighter to grow past a certain level...

-Swizzy-
03-31-2010, 11:25 PM
I agree with you but, I like the way the japanese fight. north american fighters have too much of a mechanical style.... european and japanese fighters are much more fun to watch.

So as much as I agree with you, I would rather they stay away from the boring NA fighting style.

Virgil Caine
03-31-2010, 11:36 PM
I think the bigger problem is that Japanese fighters are generally brought over as novelties. I still support them, but Gomi and Uno are clearly passed it. There is sort of a shortage of top-class Japanese fighters right now, but historically the best Japanese fighters have fought in Japan (i.e. Aoki, Yamamoto, Sudo, Sakuraba, Gomi when he was a top fighter, hell even prime Fujita was a fairly solid fighter. The best Japanese fighters tend to stay in Japan, I think that is the bigger trend.

-Nova-
04-01-2010, 12:06 AM
They sure do. Gomi had no urgency at all. He was waiting too much and he prolly wont even learn from this neither....

F l i c k e r
04-01-2010, 01:39 AM
I'll **** on anyone who says something stupid about the Gomi fight. I swear, like a ******* type **** on you. I promise. :spank:

Gomi looked like he had butterflies. I don't think it was anything serious. First time jitters on the UFC stage. I don't think it was anything too serious. He caught Florian with a beautiful left hand and instantly, Florian wanted to go to the ground. I think now, Gomi will come back with a fire under his ass. Even after the fight, he threw his mouthpiece like he wasn't totally comfortable.


I agree with the training thing though. Yushin Okami said it first, that in Japan there isn't people good enough to train with. Recently before the Sonnen fight, Yushin was training with Randy Couture, which shows the truth behind this.

Gomi will probably train more often with AKA now though. After this fight. Florian really didn't do anything spectacular. I don't know what to call it. Florian just didn't do anything spectacular like he did with Guida, Stevenson and others, ya know? Gomi will be back.

I gotta shell out 100k worth of e-points now. I don't ever want to bet again.

Dice
04-01-2010, 03:11 AM
I'll **** on anyone who says something stupid about the Gomi fight. I swear, like a ******* type **** on you. I promise. :spank:

Gomi looked like he had butterflies. I don't think it was anything serious. First time jitters on the UFC stage. I don't think it was anything too serious. He caught Florian with a beautiful left hand and instantly, Florian wanted to go to the ground. I think now, Gomi will come back with a fire under his ass. Even after the fight, he threw his mouthpiece like he wasn't totally comfortable.


I agree with the training thing though. Yushin Okami said it first, that in Japan there isn't people good enough to train with. Recently before the Sonnen fight, Yushin was training with Randy Couture, which shows the truth behind this.

Gomi will probably train more often with AKA now though. After this fight. Florian really didn't do anything spectacular. I don't know what to call it. Florian just didn't do anything spectacular like he did with Guida, Stevenson and others, ya know? Gomi will be back.

I gotta shell out 100k worth of e-points now. I don't ever want to bet again.

Kenny didnt do anything spectacular but dominate the fight and easily submit Gomi after two rounds of kickin his ass on the feet. Gomi landed one fukin punch, one, and Kenny taking Gomi down makes kenny look better cuz Gomi's the wrestler not Ken Flo.

I am a fan of Gomi and wished for the Pride Gomi to show up but I knew he was gonna lose. What I didnt kno was that he was still gonna come with that unchanged sloppy a$$ boxing, I didnt kno he was gonna eat jabs all night and I didnt think he would get THAT outclassed.

Lets face it, he's shot, and even in his prime the comp he beat wasnt as great as its made to be. First time UFC jitters is no excuse when you have fought and were one of the most popular fighters in Pride which had double the arena capacity. The excuse becomes even weaker when u relize this is Gomi's 38th fight.

Lets face it, if Gomi fights Clay Guida hes gonna look like jesus christ, if he fights Gray Maynerd, or Frankie Edgar, he gonna look bad, real bad. Lets not even entertain a rematch with Penn.

Ill always be a fan but I can live life through PRIDE colored glasses in 2010

dmocchi
04-01-2010, 03:19 AM
I think if a japanese fighter is going to win a championship in the US they need to train with an American/Canadian team. There just isn't enough top competition in Japan for a fighter to grow past a certain level...


I really dont think its got anything to do with that..... The Japanese fighters acquired by the UFC are past their primes or can be catagorized as 'never have beens'. The only one worth noting at the moment is Aoki at strikeforce

kaps
04-01-2010, 08:39 AM
You can't blame Florian for that fight, Gomi was just as boring, he pulled a CroCop, someone needs to get these guys a cup of coffee or a redbull or something....

jakkups
04-01-2010, 10:27 AM
Kenny didnt do anything spectacular but dominate the fight and easily submit Gomi after two rounds of kickin his ass on the feet. Gomi landed one fukin punch, one, and Kenny taking Gomi down makes kenny look better cuz Gomi's the wrestler not Ken Flo.

I am a fan of Gomi and wished for the Pride Gomi to show up but I knew he was gonna lose. What I didnt kno was that he was still gonna come with that unchanged sloppy a$$ boxing, I didnt kno he was gonna eat jabs all night and I didnt think he would get THAT outclassed.

Lets face it, he's shot, and even in his prime the comp he beat wasnt as great as its made to be. First time UFC jitters is no excuse when you have fought and were one of the most popular fighters in Pride which had double the arena capacity. The excuse becomes even weaker when u relize this is Gomi's 38th fight.

Lets face it, if Gomi fights Clay Guida hes gonna look like jesus christ, if he fights Gray Maynerd, or Frankie Edgar, he gonna look bad, real bad. Lets not even entertain a rematch with Penn.

Ill always be a fan but I can live life through PRIDE colored glasses in 2010

This is what I've been saying for awhile now. After 2005 Gomi hasn't been in there with anyone who was dangerous, that could keep him on his toes and keep him honest. It started to show with his fight against Nick Diaz which is the last dangerous opponent he has faced and since then he's been in with soft competition and has looked pretty sloppy.

Last night it showed up even more, firstly with his mentality that he already thought that in his head that he was gonna beat Kenny was already thinking about BJ Penn, and second that he was technically outworked in the aspect of his game which he is reknowned for, not to mention dominated everywhere else.

I don't think Gomi is shot though. I think that's the easy thing to say about fighter's from PRIDE who don't perform to the level that they had previous. With guys like Wand I can understand simply because the guy has been through war after war. With Gomi, it's not the same. He ran through most if not all the guys he fought in Japan, and the fights which didn't go his way weren't wars by any stretch. I think it's a case of him not being matched up against dangerous comp for so long that he has come to rely on his power and his style that served him so well for so long that he has come to a point where he isn't going to change and any fighter that is technically sound and focused is gonna make him look like Kenny did last night.

Training with some fighter's in the USA may do him some good and I'm sure in the gym he'll be learning more things but I don't see him changing his style at all. It's like getting Randy Couture to stop utilising Greco-Roman wrestling. Sure he'll mix it up but when push comes to shove and he needs to get those rounds in the bag he'll always fall back on what he knows best.

Gomi's a legend, but the Fireball Kid's flame won't burn as brightly as it once did.

Dice
04-01-2010, 03:35 PM
And its to no insult to Gomi or anything, ill always be a fan, no matter how terrible Cro Cop looks now, ill always be a fan.

But I do think Gomi is shot, you dont have to go through wars to be shot, hes got over 30 fights, won both pride titles at LW, is huge in his hometown, the fire isnt there anymore, on top of that, his body might not be there anymore, this is years upon years of grueling training, at some point most start to slip.

CiganoBoxer
04-01-2010, 03:46 PM
By the looks of things Japanes fighters need to stay in Japan:rofl:

jakkups
04-01-2010, 08:29 PM
And its to no insult to Gomi or anything, ill always be a fan, no matter how terrible Cro Cop looks now, ill always be a fan.

But I do think Gomi is shot, you dont have to go through wars to be shot, hes got over 30 fights, won both pride titles at LW, is huge in his hometown, the fire isnt there anymore, on top of that, his body might not be there anymore, this is years upon years of grueling training, at some point most start to slip.

That's true, he doesn't need to be through wars to be shot and grueling training can take it's toll. However, he didn't look out of shape last night, just overmatched from a technical standpoint in every aspect. As far as I can remember he hasn't been in there with anyone who utilises a jab which he didn't even expect and couldn't adjust to for the entire fight. That to me isn't a sign of being shot, it's a sign that he hasn't been taught that before. He's just been used to fighting overmatched opponents for the past 5 years that he is paying for it.

As far as top-of-the-heap competition is concerned he is done that's for sure. Kenflo was the test to see if he was worthy of a shot sooner rather than later, but now it will probably never come. He's still got a shot, albeit a 50/50 shot, at beating the fringe guys and potential title challengers but he isn't gonna run through anyone like he did before. I just hope he doesn't become the whipping boy of the 155lb division, he deserves better than that.

F l i c k e r
04-02-2010, 09:28 PM
Kenny didnt do anything spectacular but dominate the fight and easily submit Gomi after two rounds of kickin his ass on the feet. Gomi landed one fukin punch, one, and Kenny taking Gomi down makes kenny look better cuz Gomi's the wrestler not Ken Flo.

I am a fan of Gomi and wished for the Pride Gomi to show up but I knew he was gonna lose. What I didnt kno was that he was still gonna come with that unchanged sloppy a$$ boxing, I didnt kno he was gonna eat jabs all night and I didnt think he would get THAT outclassed.

Lets face it, he's shot, and even in his prime the comp he beat wasnt as great as its made to be. First time UFC jitters is no excuse when you have fought and were one of the most popular fighters in Pride which had double the arena capacity. The excuse becomes even weaker when u relize this is Gomi's 38th fight.

Lets face it, if Gomi fights Clay Guida hes gonna look like jesus christ, if he fights Gray Maynerd, or Frankie Edgar, he gonna look bad, real bad. Lets not even entertain a rematch with Penn.

Ill always be a fan but I can live life through PRIDE colored glasses in 2010


First of all, Florian didn't dominate ****. All he did was jab. Sure it was a good jab, Gomi is just the type of person who doesn't give a **** about your punches if it doesn't hurt him, so he ate the jabs all night. An easy submission? Who the **** says Gomi is hard to submitt anyways? Your making a big deal out of little **** you prick.

Your not a fan of Gomi so don't even try it. Your a fickle ass fan and you can't say anything different. Your a fan of someone when they win but when they lose you don't like them anymore. Fickle ass ****. Win or lose, I am with Gomi regardless.

Being in your prime and being shot are two drastics. Gomi isn't shot, he isn't in his prime anymore but that doesn't mean your shot. Penn isn't in his prime anymore, you can't say he is. **** what fans say, Penn says it himself that he isn't in his prime, he admitted that he was wasting away the gift god gave him in his prime years.

Shogun's first fight in the UFC was horrible as well. So your whole Gomi's 38th fight **** goes straight out the ****ing window. Jitters on the big stage exist wheather you like it or not. A-rod had jitters on the primetime stage. Peyton Manning had jitters on the prime time stage. It happens. Your just too blind to see.

Anyone who is a fan of Gomi could obviously see that Gomi wasn't right. He wasn't drained, or some other stupid ass excuse. He obviously had butterflies. Everyone who actually knows **** KNOWS Gomi has an incredible killer instinct. He hurt Florian and didn't go on the kill. Everyone KNOWS Gomi isn't afraid of contact, yet he stood back and took jabs.

People are ****ing stupid. You dominate with jabs? Riiiiiiiiiiight. Go watch KenFlo-Guida, that's dominating. KenFlo-Stevenson, thats dominating. KenFlo-Lauzon, thats dominating. Mother****ers are retarded as **** now days. Thinking stopped means submissions and ****. ****ing retarded. What next? That motha****er a while back that ran the entire fight is a defensive genius?

Your not a ****in fan of Gomi. Your a fickle ass person who only likes front runners. Gomi will always be my favorite and I don't take him out of context, but people who blindly puts him down will get **** on.

F l i c k e r
04-02-2010, 09:35 PM
That's true, he doesn't need to be through wars to be shot and grueling training can take it's toll. However, he didn't look out of shape last night, just overmatched from a technical standpoint in every aspect. As far as I can remember he hasn't been in there with anyone who utilises a jab which he didn't even expect and couldn't adjust to for the entire fight. That to me isn't a sign of being shot, it's a sign that he hasn't been taught that before. He's just been used to fighting overmatched opponents for the past 5 years that he is paying for it.

As far as top-of-the-heap competition is concerned he is done that's for sure. Kenflo was the test to see if he was worthy of a shot sooner rather than later, but now it will probably never come. He's still got a shot, albeit a 50/50 shot, at beating the fringe guys and potential title challengers but he isn't gonna run through anyone like he did before. I just hope he doesn't become the whipping boy of the 155lb division, he deserves better than that.[/B]

KenFlo is the #2 lightweight in the UFC. Overall, regardless of who is the next challanger, KenFlo can beat them all. So how can Gomi be considered shot for losing to the only guy in the UFC who even has a chance against Penn? Makes no sense what-so-ever.

We aren't talking Gray Maynard, Frankie Edgar, Tyson Griffin and ****. We are talking #2 Kenny Florian and #1 BJ Penn. So I agree that he has a 50/50 shot, I already said basically a Punchers chance.

Kenny Florian was basically Gomi's kryptonite, a THINKER who has top tier submission game. Anyone else in the ring that night would have walked right into Gomi's counter-right and would go to sleep. Florian was smart enough to use his reach and even then all he could land was the jab, and even then when he got hit he went straight for the takedown. Penn has the ground game to make Gomi a short night, he knows he won't stand with Gomi, he doesn't have Florian's reach.

Anyone else in the LW division would go through hell and high water to beat Gomi. Unless they have top tier bjj they have very little chance. Maynard plays into Gomi's game, Edgar plays into Gomi's game, Griffin was dwarfed by Gomi in training so I KNOW how that will go.
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People(not exactly you Jak) need to stop blowing the loss out of proportion. They don't even know Gomi and call themselves a fan of his. I'm not stupid, I can see that Gomi wasn't on his game that night, I chalk it up to butterflies. He didn't even try to engage, which anyone who actually watches Gomi knows that isn't Gomi.

jakkups
04-03-2010, 12:51 AM
KenFlo is the #2 lightweight in the UFC. Overall, regardless of who is the next challanger, KenFlo can beat them all. So how can Gomi be considered shot for losing to the only guy in the UFC who even has a chance against Penn? Makes no sense what-so-ever.

We aren't talking Gray Maynard, Frankie Edgar, Tyson Griffin and ****. We are talking #2 Kenny Florian and #1 BJ Penn. So I agree that he has a 50/50 shot, I already said basically a Punchers chance.

Kenny Florian was basically Gomi's kryptonite, a THINKER who has top tier submission game. Anyone else in the ring that night would have walked right into Gomi's counter-right and would go to sleep. Florian was smart enough to use his reach and even then all he could land was the jab, and even then when he got hit he went straight for the takedown. Penn has the ground game to make Gomi a short night, he knows he won't stand with Gomi, he doesn't have Florian's reach.

Anyone else in the LW division would go through hell and high water to beat Gomi. Unless they have top tier bjj they have very little chance. Maynard plays into Gomi's game, Edgar plays into Gomi's game, Griffin was dwarfed by Gomi in training so I KNOW how that will go.
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People(not exactly you Jak) need to stop blowing the loss out of proportion. They don't even know Gomi and call themselves a fan of his. I'm not stupid, I can see that Gomi wasn't on his game that night, I chalk it up to butterflies. He didn't even try to engage, which anyone who actually watches Gomi knows that isn't Gomi.

I said before I don't think he is shot. I do believe that he has been too comfortable in his matchups from 06' onwards that he hasn't needed to stretch himself because he was against competition that suited him and allowed him opportunities to unleash his strengths to maximum effect. And because of that, he is finding it hard to keep up with a lot of the younger guys who are coming in well-prepared for all aspects of an MMA fight. I wasn't trying to blow this fight out of proportion, just calling it how I saw it as part of the performances that Gomi has been putting in since PRIDE closed for business.

Now jitters can happen but I don't agree with you this time round. When you look at this performance in comparison to his fights prior to this there is a trend starting to appear and this fight with Kenflo fits that trend. Even a diehard Gomi fan like yourself has to admit that he hasn't looked spectacular in his last few bouts prior to this one. He's gone 4-3 since the PRIDE days and the only stoppage win he has had (unless you count the cut Ludwig got 2 mins into the first round of a fight knowone was winning) has been Nakakura. His other victories he hasn't looked ferocious when he would normally run through those guys.

Kenflo is the #2 LW in the UFC, but you've even said it yourself, after Penn, there is a huge dropoff before we get to Kenny. There's nothing different about Kenny now to the Kenny that fought BJ. His subs having got better, his striking hasn't improved immensely. His gameplan was no different than the gameplan he tried against BJ, strike and then take him down. I agree he's good enough to be worthy of being the #2 guy in the division, but he isn't going to beat BJ should a rematch be on the tables.

And that being said I don't see Gomi being competitive with BJ either. If you truly believe BJ won't be able to or even think about standing with Gomi because he doesn't have Kenflo's reach then I have to disagree. Everything Kenny did to Gomi, BJ does 20x's better. In their grappling credentials, it's a no-contest, Penn all the way. In their striking, same again, it's Penn all the way. Penn can get inside and judge/time distance better, has a way better jab, far better combinations, hits harder, has better head/body/feet movement, better chin and actually has a 2 inch reach advantage on Gomi. Plus Penn now shows that he too is a thinker and doesn't go out searching for the KO or submission. He picks guys apart because he knows it will come eventually.

Based on recent performances it's more likely that Penn would tattoo Gomi up something horrid then finish him on the ground, much like he did against Kenflo. Penn has nothing to fear, he beat Gomi up once before without any problems. Plus do you think he'll be worried one bit about Gomi's standup after watching that fight. I think he'd welcome a standup fight with him. Remember this is a guy who has fought as high as HW and has only ever lost world champions. Gomi is the one who should be worried not Penn.

As for the rest of the LW division, it all comes down to who he's matched up against, so for now I'll stick the 50/50 chance.

Dice
04-03-2010, 01:18 AM
First of all, Florian didn't dominate ****. All he did was jab. Sure it was a good jab, Gomi is just the type of person who doesn't give a **** about your punches if it doesn't hurt him, so he ate the jabs all night. An easy submission? Who the **** says Gomi is hard to submitt anyways? Your making a big deal out of little **** you prick.

Your not a fan of Gomi so don't even try it. Your a fickle ass fan and you can't say anything different. Your a fan of someone when they win but when they lose you don't like them anymore. Fickle ass ****. Win or lose, I am with Gomi regardless.

Being in your prime and being shot are two drastics. Gomi isn't shot, he isn't in his prime anymore but that doesn't mean your shot. Penn isn't in his prime anymore, you can't say he is. **** what fans say, Penn says it himself that he isn't in his prime, he admitted that he was wasting away the gift god gave him in his prime years.

Shogun's first fight in the UFC was horrible as well. So your whole Gomi's 38th fight **** goes straight out the ****ing window. Jitters on the big stage exist wheather you like it or not. A-rod had jitters on the primetime stage. Peyton Manning had jitters on the prime time stage. It happens. Your just too blind to see.

Anyone who is a fan of Gomi could obviously see that Gomi wasn't right. He wasn't drained, or some other stupid ass excuse. He obviously had butterflies. Everyone who actually knows **** KNOWS Gomi has an incredible killer instinct. He hurt Florian and didn't go on the kill. Everyone KNOWS Gomi isn't afraid of contact, yet he stood back and took jabs.

People are ****ing stupid. You dominate with jabs? Riiiiiiiiiiight. Go watch KenFlo-Guida, that's dominating. KenFlo-Stevenson, thats dominating. KenFlo-Lauzon, thats dominating. Mother****ers are retarded as **** now days. Thinking stopped means submissions and ****. ****ing retarded. What next? That motha****er a while back that ran the entire fight is a defensive genius?

Your not a ****in fan of Gomi. Your a fickle ass person who only likes front runners. Gomi will always be my favorite and I don't take him out of context, but people who blindly puts him down will get **** on.


Green K for posting an excellent and sensible arguement