View Full Version : Should George W. Bush be prosecuted for human rights violations?


neils7147933
06-02-2005, 06:15 AM
oneworld.net

Bush, Other Top Officials Should Face Torture Probes, Says Amnesty; Urges Arrests if Warranted

Abid Aslam, OneWorld US
Thu May 26,12:16 PM ET

WASHINGTON, D.C., May 26 (OneWorld) - Rights watchdog Amnesty International urged foreign governments Wednesday to investigate and prosecute President George W. Bush much as they once did former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet.

''If the United States permits the architects of torture policy to get off scot-free, then other nations should step into the breach,'' William Schulz, executive director of Amnesty International USA, said in a statement launching Amnesty's annual report.

Bush is among a dozen former or current U.S. officials who should be probed by foreign governments because Washington has failed to conduct ''a genuinely independent and comprehensive investigation'' of torture allegations against U.S. troops, commanders, and their civilian overseers, Schulz said.

Others on the Amnesty list of potential targets for investigation and prosecution include Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, and former Central Intelligence Agency ( CIA) chief George Tenet.

''If the U.S. government continues to shirk its responsibility, Amnesty International calls on foreign governments to uphold their obligations under international law by investigating all senior U.S. officials involved in the torture scandal,'' Schulz said.

''If those investigations support prosecution, the governments should arrest any official who enters their territory and begin legal proceedings against them,'' he added. ''The apparent high-level architects of torture should think twice before planning their next vacation to places like Acapulco or the French Riviera because they may find themselves under arrest as Augusto Pinochet famously did in London in 1998.''

Torture and other grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions amount to crimes against humanity and therefore all states have a responsibility to investigate and prosecute people responsible for them, Amnesty said in its 308-page report.

The U.S. government had yet to respond to the Amnesty report Wednesday but Rumsfeld and others on the Amnesty list have strongly denied that they condoned torture or did anything wrong.

Military officials and administration spokespersons have repeatedly and strenuously denied any policy promoting or tolerating torture and have said that allegations of abuses have resulted in dozens of investigations and a number of prosecutions and disciplinary actions.

Some 125 such cases have been filed, Amnesty acknowledged, but it said they have involved only soldiers and their superiors in the field and have yet to trace lines of responsibility back to Washington. Characterizing this as a refusal to investigate, Schulz said it amounted, in effect, to ''tolerance'' for torture and mistreatment and warned that it would destroy U.S. credibility when Washington assails human rights violations by other governments, like those in Syria or Egypt.

''It is the height of hypocrisy for the U.S. government itself to use the very torture techniques that it routinely condemns in other countries,'' Schulz said. ''When the U.S. government then calls upon foreign leaders to bring to justice those who commit or authorize human rights violations in their own countries, why should those foreign leaders listen?''

Amnesty's demand dovetails with a lawsuit by Human Rights First and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) alleging that Rumsfeld and others authorized torture-like interrogation techniques by U.S. troops at U.S bases in Afghanistan, Cuba, and Iraq.

It also buttresses a campaign by non-governmental organizations demanding a full-scale independent probe of the prisoner abuse scandals modeled on the 9/11 Commission. That effort has brought together rights advocates of a liberal as well as conservative stripe, former Republican lawmakers, and retired military officers.

The call for foreign governments to take action also coincided with the release by the ACLU Wednesday of documents that it said revealed that prisoners at the U.S. base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, complained that guards mistreated the Koran and in one incident, flushed a copy of the Muslim holy book down a toilet.

The ACLU said it obtained the documents under court order from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and that they also provided accounts of beatings, sexual assaults, and hunger strikes.

The revelations follow Newsweek's recent retraction of a report saying that government investigators had corroborated almost identical incidents involving the Koran. The magazine ultimately withdrew its story saying a confidential government source no longer could be confirmed.

While Schulz singled out the United States as what he called ''a leading purveyor and practitioner'' of torture, Amnesty's report surveyed 149 countries and found that for the most part, 2004 had been a bleak year for human rights everywhere.

Amnesty also highlighted:

-- Darfur, where it said the Sudanese government generated a human rights catastrophe and the international community did too little too late to address the crisis, betraying hundreds of thousands of people.

-- Haiti, where it said individuals responsible for serious human rights violations were allowed to regain positions of power.

-- The eastern Democratic Republic of Congo, where it bemoaned the lack of an effective response to the systematic rape of tens of thousands of women, children, and babies.

-- Afghanistan, which it said slipped into a downward spiral of lawlessness and instability despite the holding of elections.

-- Reports that Russian soldiers had tortured, raped, and sexually abused Chechen women with impunity.

-- Zimbabwe, where it said the government manipulated food shortages for political reasons.

''The betrayal of human rights by governments was accompanied by increasingly horrific acts of terrorism as armed groups stooped to new levels of brutality,'' Amnesty added.

PBDS
06-02-2005, 09:30 AM
....Neils, just STFU with this ****. What has your panties in a bunch over Bush again all of a sudden? Who gives a **** if we beat the **** out of terrorists to get our information?

Alpha Male
06-02-2005, 09:48 AM
I could care less about how they are treated. I don't think we're doing enough to make them talk. **** em all.

LuKahnLi
06-02-2005, 05:11 PM
....Neils, just STFU with this ****. What has your panties in a bunch over Bush again all of a sudden? Who gives a **** if we beat the **** out of terrorists to get our information?

On the surface, no we shouldn't give a **** about terrorists getting treated inhumanely.

Only thing is, if we do it how can we tell anybody else THEY are wrong for doing it? ESPECIALLY when it is our guys that it is being done to.

Also, the things that have been done SO FAR have not been effective in getting information.

Not only that, when the peoples of the middle East find out about what we do in the prisons, they start to believe the propaganda Al Queda spreads about Americans.

Bombardier
06-02-2005, 05:33 PM
On the surface, no we shouldn't give a **** about terrorists getting treated inhumanely.

Only thing is, if we do it how can we tell anybody else THEY are wrong for doing it? ESPECIALLY when it is our guys that it is being done to.

Also, the things that have been done SO FAR have not been effective in getting information.

Not only that, when the peoples of the middle East find out about what we do in the prisons, they start to believe the propaganda Al Queda spreads about Americans.

Well put. The thing that is that it is in our best interests to not treat terrorists this way even if it doesn't seem like that.

The thing is that NO war in world history have ever been won with brute force alone. Remember that. In the old days people used to bribe their enemies to stand down. You'd be camped out alongside the enemy army and you would have agents get in there and pay the peasant soldiers to take the hell off. That led you halfway to victory right there.

In modern times propaganda is used more than outright bribery. Remember that the Cold War was won partly because we were able to convince people living in Red Curtain countries that we were having a hell of a lot better time than they were. The Soviet Communist empire was brought down without a single shot being fired.

It may suck to treat these *******s nicely but if you rough them up you just give the fundmentalists more ammo to use to recruit new members. You mistreat one terrorist and fifty more will sign on. It's a numbers game that you can't win no matter how many soldiers you have.

xrhythmxnxbluesx
06-02-2005, 07:27 PM
"they got money for war but cant feed the poor" - tupac

yea!!!

LuKahnLi
06-02-2005, 07:33 PM
"they got money for war but cant feed the poor" - tupac

yea!!!

Good quote.

Alpha Male
06-02-2005, 07:39 PM
"they got money for war but cant feed the poor" - tupac

yea!!!


Why can't the poor feed themselves?

LuKahnLi
06-02-2005, 07:40 PM
Why can't the poor feed themselves?

Because food costs money.....which the poor haven't got. Unless they turn to crime....

Alpha Male
06-02-2005, 07:43 PM
Because food costs money.....which the poor haven't got. Unless they turn to crime....


So you're saying poor people can't work?

LuKahnLi
06-02-2005, 07:46 PM
So you're saying poor people can't work?

Of course not. But some poor people can't be hired, and even when they are, in many cases they cannot make a living.

Alpha Male
06-02-2005, 07:50 PM
Of course not. But some poor people can't be hired, and even when they are, in many cases they cannot make a living.


That's no excuse. Most people are poor by choice. They don't want to put in the dedication it takes to make a decent living. They're always looking for handouts and once the get, they run to the nearest liquor store or drug dealer.

LuKahnLi
06-02-2005, 08:00 PM
That's no excuse. Most people are poor by choice. They don't want to put in the dedication it takes to make a decent living. They're always looking for handouts and once the get, they run to the nearest liquor store or drug dealer.

Lets be honest here.....nobody who is educated at even a community college just CHOOSES to be poor, take handouts etc.

Education, being able to get a good job and all that costs MONEY. Even to keep an apartment in a poor neighborhood one cannot support themselves flipping burgers.

Also many remain poor because they are convicted of a felony drug charge. If you have a felony on your record FORGET about earning an honest living. You won't be hired if you were convicted of a felony.

BTW, what part of the Dirty South are you from?

BrooklynBomber
06-02-2005, 08:08 PM
Quiete frankly I dont care what they do with the terrorists. You gotta play dirty to nail this ****ers...but, torturing terrorists will be a good precedent to torture other alleged criminals. And imo torturing a shoplifter is not the same thing as torturing a terrorist, which in many cases is justifiable.
So, imo, Bush should not be prosecuted right now. Maybe after his presidential term, but not now.

LuKahnLi
06-02-2005, 08:10 PM
Quiete frankly I dont care what they do with the terrorists. You gotta play dirty to nail this ****ers...but, torturing terrorists will be a good precedent to torture other alleged criminals. And imo torturing a shoplifter is not the same thing as torturing a terrorist, which in many cases is justifiable.
So, imo, Bush should not be prosecuted right now. Maybe after his presidential term, but not now.

Unless we can trace a memo from GW's desk saying "See if wiring electric probe's to terrorist's testicles gets em to talk. -Love, GW" I don't see how GW can be persecuted for the abuses.

However, the CIA operatives who are carrying out the abuse....that can be discussed.

Alpha Male
06-02-2005, 08:24 PM
Lets be honest here.....nobody who is educated at even a community college just CHOOSES to be poor, take handouts etc.

Education, being able to get a good job and all that costs MONEY. Even to keep an apartment in a poor neighborhood one cannot support themselves flipping burgers.

Also many remain poor because they are convicted of a felony drug charge. If you have a felony on your record FORGET about earning an honest living. You won't be hired if you were convicted of a felony.

BTW, what part of the Dirty South are you from?


I agree in part, but nowadays education is so easily attainable. All it takes is a financial aid application and if you're not a convicted felon, you're approved. As for being a convicted felon, one should know the consequences for a life of crime. So I really have no sympathy for them. But even felons can get jobs. I know people who were convicted and were able to find
jobs. They are trade schools that they can go and learn a trade.


I from New Orleans.

LuKahnLi
06-02-2005, 08:28 PM
I agree in part, but nowadays education is so easily attainable. All it takes is a financial aid application and if you're not a convicted felon, you're approved. As for being a convicted felon, one should know the consequences for a life of crime. So I really have no sympathy for them. But even felons can get jobs. I know people who were convicted and were able to find
jobs. They are trade schools that they can go and learn a trade.


I from New Orleans.

You can become a convicted felon for possession. Are you saying all USERS are turning to a life of crime? The MAJORITY of felony convictions ARE drug possession. It is THESE people that are not going to be able to progress beyond being a felon.

Further, I doubt many people committing one crime are conciously TURNING to a life of crime. If you study economics you actually learn that crime CAN be rationalized very easily to the individual.

joeboxer
06-02-2005, 08:39 PM
George Bush is the devil.http://www.wdburns.com/3D%20gallery/Devil/Dev%20walk.gif


Walking the face of the world. He has us all fooled. You know this is true.

LuKahnLi
06-02-2005, 08:40 PM
George Bush is the devil.http://www.wdburns.com/3D%20gallery/Devil/Dev%20walk.gif


Walking the face of the world. He has us all fooled. You know this is true.

Bill Hicks would certainly say so.....I do miss that man.

Alpha Male
06-02-2005, 08:48 PM
You can become a convicted felon for possession. Are you saying all USERS are turning to a life of crime? The MAJORITY of felony convictions ARE drug possession. It is THESE people that are not going to be able to progress beyond being a felon.

Further, I doubt many people committing one crime are conciously TURNING to a life of crime. If you study economics you actually learn that crime CAN be rationalized very easily to the individual.

That's not what I'm saying. Convicted felons whether by possession of drugs or anything else know that there are consequences for their actions before they commit the act, but yet they do it anyway. If you do something that you know is against the law, then you deserve what comes afterwards.

I can see how easy it is for someone to rationalize a crime. It take less effort to get money by commiting a crime than it is to look for a job or get an education.

joeboxer
06-02-2005, 08:49 PM
Tribute To Bill Hicks from NPR


http://www.sacredcow.com/media/source/hicks/hicks_NPR_feb04*****


(funny)

LuKahnLi
06-02-2005, 08:52 PM
That's not what I'm saying. Convicted felons whether by possession of drugs or anything else know that there are consequences for their actions before they commit the act, but yet they do it anyway. If you do something that you know is against the law, then you deserve what comes afterwards.

I can see how easy it is for someone to rationalize a crime. It take less effort to get money by commiting a crime than it is to look for a job or get an education.

But still, people from poor neighborhoods are stigmatized for a victimless crime which lets face it, those of us who are BETTER OFF are probably not gonna become felons for.

I do not feel that poverty is due to laziness. This country, does have a rigid social structure. The stories about children raised in poor districts who bring themselves out of that area through education or deeds....those are stories because of how RARELY it happens.

The social structures in place in this country unfortunately keep the poor poor.

LuKahnLi
06-02-2005, 08:53 PM
Crap I gotta head home. chat with ya'll later.

Alpha Male
06-02-2005, 09:03 PM
Crap I gotta head home. chat with ya'll later.


Peace my man.

neils7147933
06-02-2005, 09:14 PM
....Neils, just STFU with this ****. What has your panties in a bunch over Bush again all of a sudden? Who gives a **** if we beat the **** out of terrorists to get our information?

i just linked an article - no need to be rude.

The Golden Bear
06-02-2005, 10:34 PM
Bill Hicks would certainly say so.....I do miss that man.


::bows his head::

A true patriot Bill Hicks was.

masterdirector
06-03-2005, 02:05 AM
he should be prosecuted for being a ****head in general.