View Full Version : Who Are The Best Boxing Historians?


Southpaw16BF
03-30-2010, 12:58 PM
Who in your opinion are the best boxing historians?

mickey malone
03-30-2010, 02:19 PM
Who in your opinion are the best boxing historians?
Those who try the hardest to find the truth..

NChristo
03-30-2010, 02:32 PM
TheGreatA !!

But really, hard to see who is the best historian because no 2 historians are ever going to agree 100% on a certain list. Fact.

It all really comes down to how each person looks at the different historians e.g Bert Sugar seems to know his stuff stats wise and on different boxers records but not so much when it comes to his lists + he overlooks modern day fighters.

I like Henry Hascup and Jim Amato, always have very knowledgeable stuff to say and aren't usually bias.

Sugarj
03-30-2010, 03:47 PM
Gerald Suster is very good on the heavyweights!

fight_professor
03-30-2010, 05:59 PM
Bert Sugar is the King.

tyger
03-30-2010, 07:04 PM
Nat Fleischer

fight_professor
03-30-2010, 10:20 PM
Thomas Hauser is good. Monte Cox is ok.

louis54
03-31-2010, 03:18 AM
they are dead

louis54
03-31-2010, 03:26 AM
living , mike silver. hes got proper scope for the bulls eye

mickey malone
03-31-2010, 03:11 PM
they are dead
Reg Gutteridge and Harry Mullen..

I know he's still with us, but believe it or not, Mike Tyson is an excellent boxing historian..

fight_professor
03-31-2010, 04:10 PM
they are dead

Thomas Hauser certainly isnt.

1SILVA
03-31-2010, 07:06 PM
Who in your opinion are the best boxing historians?

As a kid, before 24 hour sports talk radio became popular, Art Rust, Jr. had a talk show on WABC radio in NYC throughout the 80's. He was the most knowledgeable man I ever heard talk about boxing. He had a nightly show from 6-10 where he would always add about the great fights of the past. Sadly, he became destitute and died a few months ago. Today, Tony Page, who works 1am-6am on WFAN, continues in the tradition of Rust. He, along with Yankee great Willie Randolph, attended Rust's funeral.

JAB5239
03-31-2010, 08:51 PM
As a kid, before 24 hour sports talk radio became popular, Art Rust, Jr. had a talk show on WABC radio in NYC throughout the 80's. He was the most knowledgeable man I ever heard talk about boxing. He had a nightly show from 6-10 where he would always add about the great fights of the past. Sadly, he became destitute and died a few months ago. Today, Tony Page, who works 1am-6am on WFAN, continues in the tradition of Rust. He, along with Yankee great Willie Randolph, attended Rust's funeral.

I never heard Rust's radio show, but he did a fine job on Joe Louis' biography.

mickey malone
03-31-2010, 11:35 PM
I never heard Rust's radio show, but he did a fine job on Joe Louis' biography.
I'm not saying he wasn't a knowledgeable boxing historian, but Rust and his wife were better known as baseball journalists..

Wasn't it his biography on Louis that mentions the controversial Lana Turner incident?

JAB5239
04-01-2010, 12:56 AM
I'm not saying he wasn't a knowledgeable boxing historian, but Rust and his wife were better known as baseball journalists..

Wasn't it his biography on Louis that mentions the controversial Lana Turner incident?

Lena Horne, yes.

1SILVA
04-01-2010, 01:08 AM
I'm not saying he wasn't a knowledgeable boxing historian, but Rust and his wife were better known as baseball journalists..

Wasn't it his biography on Louis that mentions the controversial Lana Turner incident?

You would have loved him, Malone. Only sports talk radio host to go weeks talking boxing. He had all the greats from the 80's on his show. He also wrote books on Darryl Strawberry and the Negro Leagues. He also announced the first Spinks-Holmes fight on the radio and was the lead announcer for the Luis resto-Billy Collins tragedy. His color commentators-Jake and Vicky Lamotta. Most knowlegeable man to ever host a mainstream talk show.

1SILVA
04-01-2010, 01:11 AM
I never heard Rust's radio show, but he did a fine job on Joe Louis' biography.

Jab, if you ever want to hear a great post fight analysis of a major fight, go to WFAN.COM and tune in to Tony Page. He is the most passionate and knowledgeable guy who talks about boxing on the radio. He was a Rust disciple. Page was also once the BWAA President.

JAB5239
04-01-2010, 01:15 AM
Jab, if you ever want to hear a great post fight analysis of a major fight, go to WFAN.COM and tune in to Tony Page. He is the most passionate and knowledgeable guy who talks about boxing on the radio. He was a Rust disciple. Page was also once the BWAA President.

I'll have to check that out. Thank you.

tanibanana
04-01-2010, 01:38 AM
Got to agree w/ Thomas Hauser...

mickey malone
04-01-2010, 01:42 AM
Lena Horne, yes.
I often get those two muddled :confused:

Yes, of course, it was the other one from the same era with a similar name..
I was referring to the incident that often gets grossly exaggerated by a certain member.

mickey malone
04-01-2010, 02:29 AM
You would have loved him, Malone. Only sports talk radio host to go weeks talking boxing. He had all the greats from the 80's on his show. He also wrote books on Darryl Strawberry and the Negro Leagues. He also announced the first Spinks-Holmes fight on the radio and was the lead announcer for the Luis resto-Billy Collins tragedy. His color commentators-Jake and Vicky Lamotta. Most knowlegeable man to ever host a mainstream talk show.
For sure.. I've read some of his stuff, and have occasionaly referenced him for information.. He was indeed, very knowledgeable on a number of sports..
I once made the mistake of cross referencing something he'd written about Louis, with one of the trolls on here, and questioned his reputation as a historian.. In doing that, I learned a valuable lesson, that Rust was telling the truth, and the troll was just adding his own unfounded exaggerations..

I wasn't aware Rust had died, and I'm surprised about him being destitute too.. It almost echo's the death of Louis who died in the same circumstances (or would have done, had it not been for 'Sir' Max Schmeling) shortly after Rust had completed the Bio..
It wasn't so long ago, I was reading one of his 'straight to the point' articles on racism in sport, very interesting and quite funny at times also..
RIP - to a man I once wrongly labeled as a Baseball correspondant..

Snopkins
04-01-2010, 08:05 AM
I often get those two muddled :confused:

Yes, of course, it was the other one from the same era with a similar name..
I was referring to the incident that often gets grossly exaggerated by a certain member.




When Joe Louis asked Lena Horne, with whom he was then having a relationship, to keep score for him at a Hollywood golf benefit, the singer refused -- she was entertaining troops that day. Joe hit her with a left hook. Then he started to choke her. In his 1978 autobiography, written with Edna and Art Rust Jr., Louis said that the only thing that saved Lena's life was an aunt in the next room who threatened to call the police. Louis was heavyweight champ at the time, enjoying brief matches with leading ladies.




Where is the exaggeration here,malone?

1SILVA
04-01-2010, 09:21 AM
For sure.. I've read some of his stuff, and have occasionaly referenced him for information.. He was indeed, very knowledgeable on a number of sports..
I once made the mistake of cross referencing something he'd written about Louis, with one of the trolls on here, and questioned his reputation as a historian.. In doing that, I learned a valuable lesson, that Rust was telling the truth, and the troll was just adding his own unfounded exaggerations..

I wasn't aware Rust had died, and I'm surprised about him being destitute too.. It almost echo's the death of Louis who died in the same circumstances (or would have done, had it not been for 'Sir' Max Schmeling) shortly after Rust had completed the Bio..
It wasn't so long ago, I was reading one of his 'straight to the point' articles on racism in sport, very interesting and quite funny at times also..
RIP - to a man I once wrongly labeled as a Baseball correspondant..


HERE'S AN ARTICLE ABOUT HIS RECENT PASSING


Sports radio pioneer Art Rust dies at 82

BY David Hinckley
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Thursday, January 14th 2010, 4:00 AM
Art Rust, Jr.
Flatbed Scans
Art Rust, Jr.

Art Rust Jr., who died Tuesday at the age of 82, was remembered Wednesday as a pioneer not just for black broadcasters, but for all of sports talk radio.

"He was the godfather," said Tony Paige of WFAN. "He was the Jackie Robinson who paved the way for me and everyone else - Mike Francesa, Chris Russo, Michael Kay, everyone."

"You have to remember, when he started at WABC in 1981, there was no 'FAN or anything," says Steve Malzberg, who got his radio start as Rust's producer and is now on WOR. "There was just him. And he took New York by storm."

Rust, who in recent years struggled with Parkinson's disease, started in 1954 at WWRL, where he hosted the "Schaefer Circle of Sports." He also knew music, so he would interview Sonny Liston alongside a friend such as James Brown or Miles Davis.

He worked at NBC-TV from 1967 to 1973, returned to radio at WMCA and WINS and reached his greatest mainstream prominence in the 1980s at WABC, where he started his "Sportstalk" show while the station was still playing top-40 music.

"We were hired to do the Yankees pre-game show," Malzberg recalled yesterday. "Then the strike came and he was on 6-9 every night. And everyone listened."

Rust became known for throwback sports terminology such as "fling that leather." He also developed signature phrases, with the most famous referring to Yankee Stadium as "the big ball orchard in the South Bronx."

"Before Art's show, no one thought people wanted all sports on the radio," Paige said. "After him, someone said, 'Hey, this could work.'"

Rust called himself primarily a sports historian, and friends recalled his "encyclopedic" knowledge of boxing and baseball.

"I was on his radio show many times," recalled Daily News sports cartoonist Bill Gallo, who used to sit ringside with Rust when Rust wrote a column for The News. "We'd talk with all the big fighters, like Rocky Marciano, Rocky Graziano, Billy Graham, Jake La Motta. He knew everything about them."

Rust wrote a half-dozen books, many with his wife, Edna. He coauthored autobiographies with Darryl Strawberry and Joe Louis and collected oral histories from dozens of black sports figures, many of whom talked about the racial discrimination they faced.

He titled a 1976 collection "Get That N----- Off The Field," a 19th century quote generally attributed to Cap Anson, but which Rust said echoed for a century thereafter.

He picked that quote, he said, because "Hell, black people know what a n----- is because they're called it silently every day of their lives. ... I decided I'd rather be honest than inoffensive."

Rust was born in Harlem and grew up in New York as a passionate sports fan who attended Negro League as well as Major League baseball games. He remembered occasionally being spat on by white ballplayers when he asked for autographs.

Over his years as a writer and historian, say friends, he developed a cordial manner.

"He was a charming guy," Gallo said. "Very smooth. Very good company."

Malzberg recalled going to Super Bowls and Yankee spring training and other places where Rust would do his show.

"I was a kid, I had the time of my life," Malzberg said. "He took me under his wing. Without him I wouldn't be where I am today."

Rust's last regular radio job was at WBLS from 1991 to 1994. Edna died in 1986, and he is survived by his daughter, Suzanne.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/2010/01/14/2010-01-14_art_rust_dies_at_82.html#ixzz0jr1sQGxT

JAB5239
04-01-2010, 10:58 AM
When Joe Louis asked Lena Horne, with whom he was then having a relationship, to keep score for him at a Hollywood golf benefit, the singer refused -- she was entertaining troops that day. Joe hit her with a left hook. Then he started to choke her. In his 1978 autobiography, written with Edna and Art Rust Jr., Louis said that the only thing that saved Lena's life was an aunt in the next room who threatened to call the police. Louis was heavyweight champ at the time, enjoying brief matches with leading ladies.




Where is the exaggeration here,malone?

Well lets see, you've said Louis was an attempted murderer though he was never charged with any such crime at any time and most likely beat all his women though there is no proof of that either. You have also said you couldn't dig up your old posts as you don't even know what account you were posting under, yet you had no problem finding this. All flat out lies and exaggerations.

mickey malone
04-01-2010, 11:23 AM
Well lets see, you've said Louis was an attempted murderer though he was never charged with any such crime at any time and most likely beat all his women though there is no proof of that either. You have also said you couldn't dig up your old posts as you don't even know what account you were posting under, yet you had no problem finding this. All flat out lies and exaggerations.
I knew he'd come out of his hole as soon as Art Rust's name came up..This is one of his favourite troll baits..
I've never read the book, so I can't really comment. But I'd say he's probably spiced it up a bit, and Snotkins has added his fourpenneth.. Be interesting to hear from anyone else who's got the book..

Snopkins
04-02-2010, 04:02 AM
Well lets see, you've said Louis was an attempted murderer though he was never charged with any such crime at any time and most likely beat all his women though there is no proof of that either. You have also said you couldn't dig up your old posts as you don't even know what account you were posting under, yet you had no problem finding this. All flat out lies and exaggerations.



It was Slimey Limey who made that claim actually.I personally never involved myself into that particular conversation.


Are you still in denial that Louis hit and nearly choked this woman to death? He himself claimed that the only reason he didn't kill her was because an aunt intervened.

jameshepenstall
04-02-2010, 04:07 AM
Who in your opinion are the best boxing historians?

Bert Sugar is the only one i can think of.

DR.ORGYY
04-02-2010, 04:07 AM
obvious answer bert sugar....

JAB5239
04-02-2010, 04:30 AM
It was Slimey Limey who made that claim actually.I personally never involved myself into that particular conversation.


Are you still in denial that Louis hit and nearly choked this woman to death? He himself claimed that the only reason he didn't kill her was because an aunt intervened.

I never said he didn't hit her or choke her. But this is another example of how you exaggerate when using any little thing you can to put down Louis. Besides the book are you aware of any other telling of this incident? And if Louis did nearly "choke her to death" or even cracked her with a solid punch wouldn't she have been unconscious prompting the aunt to at the least call for medical help? What you've done is take a colorful description of the incident to make a ridiculous assumption with nothing to substantiate it. In other words you exaggerated.

Snopkins
04-02-2010, 04:38 AM
I never said he didn't hit her or choke her. But this is another example of how you exaggerate when using any little thing you can to put down Louis. Besides the book are you aware of any other telling of this incident? And if Louis did nearly "choke her to death" or even cracked her with a solid punch wouldn't she have been unconscious prompting the aunt to at the least call for medical help? What you've done is take a colorful description of the incident to make a ridiculous assumption with nothing to substantiate it. In other words you exaggerated.



So in other words,you are in denial.You're questioning whether this incident even took place even though Louis himself stated that it happened.


Louis hit and then choked her and claimed that the only thing that prevented him from killing her was the aunt who threatened to call the police.

JAB5239
04-02-2010, 04:48 AM
So in other words,you are in denial.You're questioning whether this incident even took place even though Louis himself stated that it happened.


Louis hit and then choked her and claimed that the only thing that prevented him from killing her was the aunt who threatened to call the police.

This is so typical of your trolling tendencies. You've repeated yourself and avoided answering the questions posed. No wonder you can't stay out of the red for more than a few dozen posts....if that.

CAN you answer the questions?

Snopkins
04-03-2010, 05:19 AM
This is so typical of your trolling tendencies. You've repeated yourself and avoided answering the questions posed. No wonder you can't stay out of the red for more than a few dozen posts....if that.

CAN you answer the questions?



These questions don't need to be answered.It was Louis that claimed that it had happened.Why would he make up such a story about himself?

JAB5239
04-03-2010, 03:21 PM
These questions don't need to be answered.It was Louis that claimed that it had happened.Why would he make up such a story about himself?

You aren't very bright and are totally afraid to be exposed as an idiot and coward whether it be ridiculing someone else's list and not providing your own, or refusing to answer questions. A shivering little puppy scared of the thunder.

Who says he made up the story? Im sure he hit her and choked here, but people embellish stories all the time be they good or bad. You claimed he attempted to kill her till the aunt threatened to call the police, but you can't answer the question of why she was still conscious after the punch let alone being choked? I mean this is Joe Louis we're talking about. A man who put other men who were trained to take punches asleep in one shot. But we're to believe little Lena Horne was still conscious after an enraged Louis hit her and was trying to kill her? Get real. You exaggerate and lie to suit want you want people to believe. I've proven that over and over about you, troll.

slakka
04-07-2010, 05:48 PM
Best Historians??
Its based on the fighter. Like Harry Greb has some individual experts
who out knowledge the Bert Sugar all around guys.