View Full Version : Frank Bruno


Southpaw16BF
03-29-2010, 10:04 PM
What are your thoughts on him and his legacy?

Ziggy Stardust
03-29-2010, 10:30 PM
Good solid fighter, just not good enough to be a champion. Dynamite power but a bit clumsy delivering it which cost him big against top opponents. Tended to fade late and froze when hurt and stopped defending himself. One of my favorites. I have most of his fights on DVD.

Poet

CarlosG815
03-29-2010, 10:33 PM
He's a British fighter I could enjoy. Solid fighter but seemed to fade fairly early.

I thought he was going to KO Tyson in their first meeting, he was definitely winning some rounds then he just fell apart.

Ziggy Stardust
03-29-2010, 10:35 PM
He's a British fighter I could enjoy. Solid fighter but seemed to fade fairly early.

I thought he was going to KO Tyson in their first meeting, he was definitely winning some rounds then he just fell apart.

When Tyson landed the uppercut Bruno froze: It was always his downfall.

Poet

CarlosG815
03-29-2010, 10:52 PM
When Tyson landed the uppercut Bruno froze: It was always his downfall.

Poet

Which round?

Ziggy Stardust
03-29-2010, 10:57 PM
Which round?

The 5th. Tyson went to the body which Bruno absorbed ok but it brought his hands down and Tyson laid the uppercut in. Bruno froze and Tyson poured the punched on for the TKO.

Poet

CarlosG815
03-29-2010, 11:09 PM
The 5th. Tyson went to the body which Bruno absorbed ok but it brought his hands down and Tyson laid the uppercut in. Bruno froze and Tyson poured the punched on for the TKO.

Poet

Ah, yeah that was the finish. I just watched it again and the turning point, to me, was the left hook with 1:15 to go in the round. Bruno was toast after it landed. He was on the ropes 30 seconds later and the fight was over shortly after.

1SILVA
03-29-2010, 11:16 PM
What are your thoughts on him and his legacy?

One dimensional fighter who had tremendous power but choked in nearly all of his biggest fights-Tyson(2), Witherspoon, Smith and Lewis. Did fight better than his talent suggested he should. A C rated heavyweight

Ziggy Stardust
03-29-2010, 11:26 PM
Ah, yeah that was the finish. I just watched it again and the turning point, to me, was the left hook with 1:15 to go in the round. Bruno was toast after it landed. He was on the ropes 30 seconds later and the fight was over shortly after.

Once Bruno was hurt he completely forgot how to defend himself. The same thing happend against Witherspoon. You don't freeze against an offensive machine like Tyson.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
03-29-2010, 11:27 PM
One dimensional fighter who had tremendous power but choked in nearly all of his biggest fights-Tyson(2), Witherspoon, Smith and Lewis. Did fight better than his talent suggested he should. A C rated heavyweight

I'm a bit more charitable and rate him a B- but my grading system may be a bit different from yours ;)

Poet

STREET CLEANER
03-29-2010, 11:33 PM
Good power but use to get winded to quick and that chin was no help either

mickey malone
03-30-2010, 12:04 AM
One dimensional fighter who had tremendous power but choked in nearly all of his biggest fights-Tyson(2), Witherspoon, Smith and Lewis. Did fight better than his talent suggested he should. A C rated heavyweight
I've noticed a lot of posters use the term, "C rated heavyweight."

Bruno was in the top 10 for most of his career, so who would you describe as B rated heavyweights?..
Surely, this would put Carl Williams, Gerrie Coetzee, James Tillis, Oliver McCall etc, all in the D rated catagory?
Also, how does a C rated HW get 4 cracks at the HW title, and eventually win it?
I mean, nobody can say it was a lucky punch!..

Ok, he was incredibly well managed and I bet he's got 10 times more money in the bank than Tyson and Witherspoon put together, but in my opinion Bruno was way above C rated.. Or am I not quite grasping the concept here?

Ziggy Stardust
03-30-2010, 12:09 AM
I've noticed a lot of posters use the term, "C rated heavyweight."

Bruno was in the top 10 for most of his career, so who would you describe as B rated heavyweights?..
Surely, this would put Carl Williams, Gerrie Coetzee, James Tillis, Oliver McCall etc, all in the D rated catagory?
Also, how does a C rated HW get 4 cracks at the HW title, and eventually win it?

I mean, nobody can say it was a lucky punch.. Ok, he was incredibly well managed and I bet he's got 10 times more money in the bank than Tyson and Witherspoon put together, but in my opinion Bruno was way above C rated.. Or am I not quite grasping the concept here?

Here's how I rank:

A Level - ATGs and Near Greats
B Level - Top Contenders in an average strength era.
C Level - Journeymen and Fringe Contenders in an average strength era.
D Level - Club Fighters
E Level - Tomato Cans

Poet

CarlosG815
03-30-2010, 12:09 AM
in my opinion Bruno was way above C rated.. Or am I not quite grasping the concept here?

He was definitely an easy B rated fighter and always a top contender.

I think he'd take back the C rated comment if he could.

1SILVA
03-30-2010, 12:12 AM
I've noticed a lot of posters use the term, "C rated heavyweight."

Bruno was in the top 10 for most of his career, so who would you describe as B rated heavyweights?..
Surely, this would put Carl Williams, Gerrie Coetzee, James Tillis, Oliver McCall etc, all in the D rated catagory?
Also, how does a C rated HW get 4 cracks at the HW title, and eventually win it?

I mean, nobody can say it was a lucky punch.. Ok, he was incredibly well managed and I bet he's got 10 times more money in the bank than Tyson and Witherspoon put together, but in my opinion Bruno was way above C rated.. Or am I not quite grasping the concept here?

I would put Coetzee and Williams as C rated fighters also. Tillis and McCall would be D fighters. Bruno was a very popular fighter who lacked that extra intangible to be great. John Ruiz, who i can't stand, is in my opinion also a C rated fighter. If A+ is Ali and Louis, what do other Heavyweights rate? Is Tyson a B+ or an A-? I'd give Holmes and A- as well as Lewis and Johnson, Dempsey and marciano are A's. I believe if you are a B rated fighter, you are borderline HOF(Norton). Bruno had a very good career and yes, he saved money and is doing well. He is not a HOF fighter, though he is a class act and a credit to the sport

Ziggy Stardust
03-30-2010, 12:16 AM
I would put Coetzee and Williams as C rated fighters also. Tillis and McCall would be D fighters. Bruno was a very popular fighter who lacked that extra intangible to be great. John Ruiz, who i can't stand, is in my opinion also a C rated fighter. If A+ is Ali and Louis, what do other Heavyweights rate? Is Tyson a B+ or an A-? I'd give Holmes and A- as well as Lewis and Johnson, Dempsey and marciano are A's. I believe if you are a B rated fighter, you are borderline HOF(Norton). Bruno had a very good career and yes, he saved money and is doing well. He is not a HOF fighter, though he is a class act and a credit to the sport

I would rate Ali, Louis, Holmes, Tyson, Johnson, Dempsey, and Marciano as A Fighters as they are all legitimate ATGs. I would rate Lewis an A Fighter as well as he's a near-great. Norton would be a B Fighter as he was a consistant top-contender in an extremely strong era.

Poet

1SILVA
03-30-2010, 12:22 AM
I would rate Ali, Louis, Holmes, Tyson, Johnson, Dempsey, and Marciano as A Fighters as they are all legitimate ATGs. I would rate Lewis an A Fighter as well as he's a near-great. Norton would be a B Fighter as he was a consistant top-contender in an extremely strong era.

Poet

I agree. What about Foreman, Frazier, and Tunney? Are they A's as well? You and malone have me thinking about rating all the Heavyweight champs from A-D. I believe the above three would all be A's. Excellent post by both you and malone.

Ziggy Stardust
03-30-2010, 12:25 AM
I agree. What about Foreman, Frazier, and Tunney? Are they A's as well? You and malone have me thinking about rating all the Heavyweight champs from A-D. I believe the above three would all be A's. Excellent post by both you and malone.

Absolutely Foreman and Frazier are A Level. Tunney only had five fights at Heavyweight so I don't rate him there: He was an A Level Light-Heavyweight though.

Poet

CarlosG815
03-30-2010, 12:25 AM
I agree. What about Foreman, Frazier, and Tunney? Are they A's as well?

Hell yes they are.

1SILVA
03-30-2010, 12:29 AM
Absolutely Foreman and Frazier are A Level. Tunney only had five fights at Heavyweight so I don't rate him there: He was an A Level Light-Heavyweight though.

Poet

So you would put Tunney and Spinks as A 175 pound fighters who had brief success at Heavy. fair enough.

Ziggy Stardust
03-30-2010, 12:33 AM
So you would put Tunney and Spinks as A 175 pound fighters who had brief success at Heavy. fair enough.

Yep. As a rule I don't rate fighters in more than one division (Exception: Ray Robinson). In the case of Ezzard Charles it's a judgement call: He had a lot of fights in both divisions but since he was at his best at Light-Heavyweight I rate him there.

Poet

mickey malone
03-30-2010, 12:51 AM
Here's how I rank:

A Level - ATGs and Near Greats
B Level - Top Contenders in an average strength era.
C Level - Journeymen and Fringe Contenders in an average strength era.
D Level - Club Fighters
E Level - Tomato Cans

Poet
Same as that, imo..

Good responses from Silva, and interesting to see it from another perspective..
Taking out the plusses and minusses is a good move on these sites as i've found it doesn't pay to make things too complicated, but it would be a good way of highlighting opinion... ie:-

A+ Ali, Louis
A Holmes, Foreman
A- Lewis, Holyfield
B+ Witherspoon, Mercer
B Bruno, Smith

I can also see how you could compile a massive list right down to E- which would be incredibly interesting and create tons of room for debate, but a bit of a task to say the least!

sonnyboyx2
03-30-2010, 02:08 AM
Bruno gave Lennox Lewis a lesson in how to jab.. had Lewis on queer street and on the verge of defeat when Lewis lashed out with a left-hook that caught Bruno on the button.. overall Bruno was a very decent fighter with heavy hands

cooper5
03-30-2010, 05:11 AM
Very entertaining fighter. Like many musclar fighters didn't have the best endurance. I remember him having his way with a young(If bonecrusher was ever young) James Smith til the tenth when Smith caught up with him. Gave great fights to Lewis and Witherspoon. I believe he could have beat Tyson in the rematch but froze up and fell down.

mickey malone
03-30-2010, 05:38 AM
Very entertaining fighter. Like many musclar fighters didn't have the best endurance. I remember him having his way with a young(If bonecrusher was ever young) James Smith til the tenth when Smith caught up with him. Gave great fights to Lewis and Witherspoon. I believe he could have beat Tyson in the rematch but froze up and fell down.
Very true, don't think i've ever seen a fighter look so scared as he made his way to the ring.. Even Spinks didn't look quite as scared as Bruno did..

Sugarj
03-30-2010, 07:54 AM
With the exception of the Tyson fights every other loss that came Bruno's way happened when he was ahead on points. Bonecrusher, Witherspoon and Lewis. No two ways about it, he hurt Tyson too.

With all the fuss about the Dirrell Abraham issue going round. I seem to remember Tyson hitting Bruno in the first round when he was already down on a knee or so.

With a better chin Bruno could have been someone to be really feared.

mickey malone
03-30-2010, 09:05 AM
With the exception of the Tyson fights every other loss that came Bruno's way happened when he was ahead on points. Bonecrusher, Witherspoon and Lewis. No two ways about it, he hurt Tyson too.

With all the fuss about the Dirrell Abraham issue going round. I seem to remember Tyson hitting Bruno in the first round when he was already down on a knee or so.

With a better chin Bruno could have been someone to be really feared.
He had a pretty good chin really.. It was more the way he reacted to getting hit that got him TKO'd more so than KTFO.. All of his defeats were against very good punchers, who all had to hit him several hard shots to get him out of there.. Had he been able to slip punches without freezing, I don't think the whiskers would have let him down often, if at all..

Chief2ndzOnly!
03-30-2010, 09:08 AM
Good solid fighter, just not good enough to be a champion. Dynamite power but a bit clumsy delivering it which cost him big against top opponents. Tended to fade late and froze when hurt and stopped defending himself. One of my favorites. I have most of his fights on DVD.

Poet

Well said poet my friend........Well said.

GJC
03-30-2010, 09:22 AM
Always seemed a very nice fellow pleased he won the title and made a few bob.

Capital Punch
03-30-2010, 09:40 AM
Bruno was more of a media personality than a fighter, whenever he made any real step up in class his shortcomings in stamina, chin and mobility were exposed. His best was the TKO5 loss to Tyson when he became the first fighter to put any sort of dent in Iron Mike's armour, a dent that became a gaping hole a year later via Buster Douglas. Maybe his other best display was against Lewis, where he did well early on with the jab until his brittleness cost him. Against McCall he was completely gassed and hanging on at the end. The fights he actually won by stoppage don't make huge reading: A faded Bugner, Carl Williams, who'd been ko'd 1 by Tyson and Tommy Morrison. He didn't like facing big punchers so avoided a lot of names, including Gary Mason who was British HW champion during Bruno's stop start career. An entertaining fighter but definitely C class for the most.

Sugarj
03-30-2010, 12:10 PM
Hi Mickey, yes I can go with him having a tendency to freeze rather than get knocked out due to a bad chin.

I remember an interview with Floyd Patterson, who was asked about the fistic chances of Frank Bruno, he replied 'Frank needs to go to the gyms of America'. Probably a fair point.

mickey malone
03-30-2010, 01:19 PM
Hi Mickey, yes I can go with him having a tendency to freeze rather than get knocked out due to a bad chin.

I remember an interview with Floyd Patterson, who was asked about the fistic chances of Frank Bruno, he replied 'Frank needs to go to the gyms of America'. Probably a fair point.
I agree.. He was wrapped in cotton wool a bit by Lawless and also spent too much time lifting weights.. I always thought if he was a little bit looser, he may have achieved more..