View Full Version : Great Who Could Of Achieved More?


Southpaw16BF
03-25-2010, 10:20 PM
Name some Great/ATG fighters, that could of achived more, but for one reason or another didn't?

CarlosG815
03-25-2010, 10:29 PM
Mike Tyson
Riddick Bowe
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Naseem Hamed

The Beatles
03-26-2010, 01:08 AM
Joe louis - The War
Muhammad Ali - Vietnam
Naseem Hamed - early retirement
Sal Sanchez - Young Death

mickey malone
03-26-2010, 01:14 AM
Les Darcy - Died of Scepticemea
Harry Greb - Similar to Darcy but fought with one eye for most of his career
Sandy Saddler - Career cut short by eye damage received in a car crash
Salvador Sanchez - Car crash
Marcel Cerdan - Plane crash
Gerald McClellan - Suffered brain damage
James Toney - Undertrained
Riddick Bowe - Undertrained
Jack Dempsey - Underactive
Floyd Mayweather - Underactive
Ray Leonard - Underactive/detached retina
Carlos Monzon - Shoud have moved up to Lhwt
Jack Johnson - Career spoiled by racist politics

Thread Stealer
03-26-2010, 01:35 AM
Aaron Pryor: cocaine addiction, managerial & personal problems
Mike Tyson: prison, headcase
James Toney: lazy glutton

EzzardFan
03-26-2010, 04:30 AM
Ali - lost his best 4 years
Ray Leonard - took too much time out
Joe Louis - WWII
Mike Tyson - if he had stuck with Teddy Atlas
Pretty much any great black fighter competing prior to 1945, particularly at HW (Joe Louis excepted).

I disagree with the person who cited Harry Greb. Greb was in decline at the time of his death. The only thing that would have improved on Greb's career would have been if he'd gotten a shot at Dempsey.

Thread Stealer
03-26-2010, 04:50 AM
Ali - lost his best 4 years
Ray Leonard - took too much time out
Joe Louis - WWII
Mike Tyson - if he had stuck with Teddy Atlas
Pretty much any great black fighter competing prior to 1945, particularly at HW (Joe Louis excepted).

I disagree with the person who cited Harry Greb. Greb was in decline at the time of his death. The only thing that would have improved on Greb's career would have been if he'd gotten a shot at Dempsey.

Do you mean Kevin Rooney?

Atlas was Tyson's trainer as a teenage amateur.

NChristo
03-26-2010, 05:07 AM
First names that come to mind are Joe Gans, Roberto Duran, Riddick Bowe, Joe Louis, Ali.

mickey malone
03-26-2010, 07:14 AM
Ali - lost his best 4 years
Ray Leonard - took too much time out
Joe Louis - WWII
Mike Tyson - if he had stuck with Teddy Atlas
Pretty much any great black fighter competing prior to 1945, particularly at HW (Joe Louis excepted).

I disagree with the person who cited Harry Greb. Greb was in decline at the time of his death. The only thing that would have improved on Greb's career would have been if he'd gotten a shot at Dempsey.
I was emphasizing, if he had two good eyes..

Shazam!
03-26-2010, 07:22 AM
I agree with a lot of the names that have been mentioned. I'd also throw Ricky Hatton in there. He was a great puncher...knocked a lot of people out with body shots.....but his over-reliance on this and consequent failure to learn important fundamentels, coupled with a terrible diet/lifestyle between fights led to an early demise.

He would have lost to Mayweather and Pacquiao (ATG's) whichever way you spin it. But if not for the above he could still be competing at a very high level. He's still only in his early 30's. A shame really.

Shazam!
03-26-2010, 07:26 AM
Naseem Hamed is another British boxer who let the hype go to his head and could have achieved more.

The problem in England is, because we're a smaller country, we obviously have less fighters capable of challenging in America, so we're always looking for that next person to hype up. At the moment it's Amir Khan. But I don't think it takes a brain surgeon to guess that a lot of his success will come down to how well he deals with that.

Sugarj
03-26-2010, 07:38 AM
Michael Watson.

And the familiar at the moment Riddick Bowe.

BattlingNelson
03-26-2010, 08:57 AM
Present day:

Jones Jr.
Mayweather
Calzaghe

NChristo
03-26-2010, 09:00 AM
Chris Eubank also, after the Watson fight he just didn't really have that killer instinct in him anymore, I feel he could of achieved alot more if not for the misfortune of what happened to Watson.

CarlosG815
03-26-2010, 09:37 AM
I agree with a lot of the names that have been mentioned. I'd also throw Ricky Hatton in there. He was a great puncher...knocked a lot of people out with body shots.....but his over-reliance on this and consequent failure to learn important fundamentels, coupled with a terrible diet/lifestyle between fights led to an early demise.

He would have lost to Mayweather and Pacquiao (ATG's) whichever way you spin it. But if not for the above he could still be competing at a very high level. He's still only in his early 30's. A shame really.

Hatton isn't a great though, not even close.

BigStereotype
03-26-2010, 11:14 AM
Naseem Hamed
Mike Tyson
Zab Judah
James Toney

Snopkins
03-26-2010, 02:42 PM
Zab Judah





Since when was Judah great? When did he ever show the potential to be great?


I blame the likes of Max Kellerman for overhyping guys like Judah.He saw a young black guy who had fast hands and he's been on his nuts ever since.

tyger
03-26-2010, 05:27 PM
Ray Leonard was sidelined all those years with a detatched retna. He could/would have dominated 147-154 for years. Could you imagine, he gave a great fight to Hagler after sitting for most of 4 years. Imagine if he wasn't so rusty!

CarlosG815
03-26-2010, 07:54 PM
Naseem Hamed
Mike Tyson
Zab Judah
James Toney

Zab lost every big fight of his career. Everybody talks about his potential based on skills but if you can't win you can't win.

Hes never won a big fight.

BigStereotype
03-26-2010, 09:00 PM
That's true. I didn't even notice that it was "Great who could have achieved more." Zab was never anywhere near great, although he was a pretty solid amateur.

Jim Jeffries
03-26-2010, 09:13 PM
Muhammad Ali is the most obvious.

Especially with 4 years of his prime missing, and not because of injury.

bolopunchez
03-26-2010, 09:30 PM
Muhammad Ali is the most obvious.

Especially with 4 years of his prime missing, and not because of injury.

I don't really understand that one, too well.

Yes, he was out of the ring for 3 years, but he ended up beating the top fighters of those 3 years later on.

What I would say is that he missed out on some of his prime years. But achievements? Not really.

Jim Jeffries
03-26-2010, 11:20 PM
I don't really understand that one, too well.

Yes, he was out of the ring for 3 years, but he ended up beating the top fighters of those 3 years later on.

What I would say is that he missed out on some of his prime years. But achievements? Not really.

Well he wouldn't have regained the title, because he wouldn't have lost it in the first place. But I don't see how a guy of Ali's caliber can lose over 3 1/2 years of his peak prime, and say he wouldn't have achieved more had he fought those years.

Devils Advocate
03-27-2010, 03:10 AM
Name some Great/ATG fighters, that could of achived more, but for one reason or another didn't?
What about Joe Calzaghe? I think he can solidify his status by facing the super 6 winner.

Holtol
03-27-2010, 03:48 AM
Marciano maybe could have fought a few more years, He retired at 32. Gorge Forman quit for 10 years then came back. Ray Leonard from 81 to 87 only had three fights.

BennyST
03-27-2010, 03:58 AM
James Toney and Roberto Duran come to mind. Although there isn't much more Duran could have done, but if he hadn't been so into partying and come into so many fights overweight and at weights too high, he could have been even greater. Top five instead of top ten.

If he, and Toney, had come in, in the shape they did when they fought their best fights even at the higher weights they would both have beaten nearly everyone they lost to.

JAB5239
03-27-2010, 04:33 AM
I've seen Ali's name for losing some years. How about Joe Louis? He lost almost 4 years to world war II. He could have quite possibly had 12 to 15 more defenses. Imagine ANY champion defending their title 35, 40 times. That would be insane.

Marcov
03-27-2010, 04:55 AM
I've seen Ali's name for losing some years. How about Joe Louis? He lost almost 4 years to world war II. He could have quite possibly had 12 to 15 more defenses. Imagine ANY champion defending their title 35, 40 times. That would be insane.

Excellent choice! Louis would have probably would have held the title for the same amount of time but had alot more defences. Many suggest the time off hurt his career as he wasn't as sharp upon returning.

Snopkins
03-28-2010, 03:32 AM
I've seen Ali's name for losing some years. How about Joe Louis? He lost almost 4 years to world war II. He could have quite possibly had 12 to 15 more defenses. Imagine ANY champion defending their title 35, 40 times. That would be insane.




I'm sure they would have had no problem in organising many more "bum of the month" tours for "slow" Joe.







James Toney and Roberto Duran come to mind. Although there isn't much more Duran could have done, but if he hadn't been so into partying and come into so many fights overweight and at weights too high, he could have been even greater. Top five instead of top ten.

If he, and Toney, had come in, in the shape they did when they fought their best fights even at the higher weights they would both have beaten nearly everyone they lost to.




That's right everyone,Duran is GOAT and he only every lost because of himself.

Jim Jeffries
03-28-2010, 03:45 AM
I've seen Ali's name for losing some years. How about Joe Louis? He lost almost 4 years to world war II. He could have quite possibly had 12 to 15 more defenses. Imagine ANY champion defending their title 35, 40 times. That would be insane.

Pretty amazing that the two greatest HWs of all time both lost almost 4 years of their peak prime and still managed to be head and shoulders above the rest.

DeelDough
03-28-2010, 03:49 AM
Roberto Clemente. I know he is a baseball player but he fits lol , u didnt specify.

GJC
03-28-2010, 09:43 AM
James Toney always leaps to front of my mind as underachieving

CarlosG815
03-28-2010, 02:12 PM
Pretty amazing that the two greatest HWs of all time both lost almost 4 years of their peak prime and still managed to be head and shoulders above the rest.

Makes me wonder where Joe Frazier would be had Ali never been banned from the sport.

There's a good chance that Frazier would have never been Champion. Ali was too dominant at the time he was banned, does anybody think that Frazier would have had a shot at taking the title from Ali?

JAB5239
03-28-2010, 04:17 PM
Makes me wonder where Joe Frazier would be had Ali never been banned from the sport.

There's a good chance that Frazier would have never been Champion. Ali was too dominant at the time he was banned, does anybody think that Frazier would have had a shot at taking the title from Ali?

Hard to say, but Ali always had trouble with left hookers and Joe's was one of the best ever. I think Frazier would have always troubled Ali.

razzledaz 38
03-28-2010, 04:26 PM
riddick bowe could have been an all time great if he had been able to keep out of the fridge.
he can only be mentioned as a good heavyweight who avoided lennox lewis (tho i think he would have beaten lewis anyway) his higher workrate and better stamina would have made the difference.

Snopkins
03-28-2010, 05:49 PM
Makes me wonder where Joe Frazier would be had Ali never been banned from the sport.

There's a good chance that Frazier would have never been Champion. Ali was too dominant at the time he was banned, does anybody think that Frazier would have had a shot at taking the title from Ali?



No,he wouldn't have.frazier wouldn't have been a champ in any other era expect perhaps an interim champ in todays era perhaps.


Had Jimmy Ellis also not come off such a long layoff,rfazier perhaps wouldn't have been champion then either.

MonsieurGeorges
03-28-2010, 06:02 PM
Name some Great/ATG fighters, that could of achived more, but for one reason or another didn't?

Young Griffo
http://www.antekprizering.com/griffomcauliffe.jpeg

EzzardFan
04-02-2010, 01:35 PM
This is easy... Dave Sands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Sands

This man was the original opponent picked for SRR but negotiations broke down and the fight went to Randy Turpin with Sands fighting on the undercard. Sands had already beaten Bobo Olsen (who later beat Turpin for the vacant MW crown), and had he landed the SRR fight then he would have stood a great chance.

EzzardFan
04-03-2010, 08:22 PM
And Ike Williams, a great fighter whose career was ruined by the mob.

EzzardFan
04-04-2010, 09:58 AM
Charley Burley. Welterweight that never got a title shot and was ducked by everyone who wasn't also ducked by everyone. Ended up fighting much bigger MWs, LHWs, and HWs guys cos nobody else would take him on. Even SRR ducked him. Beat Archie Moore.

NChristo
04-04-2010, 10:09 AM
Charley Burley. Welterweight that never got a title shot and was ducked by everyone who wasn't also ducked by everyone. Ended up fighting much bigger MWs, LHWs, and HWs guys cos nobody else would take him on. Even SRR ducked him. Beat Archie Moore.



All of BMR then lol, amazing boxers that all could of easily been world champs.

mhager91490
04-04-2010, 01:46 PM
Muhammad Ali is the most obvious.

Especially with 4 years of his prime missing, and not because of injury.

His career would of been shorter, and he may have been beaten more in the end, that layoff preserved him too, with the way he kept a busy schedule and the amount of tough fighters that came around in the time of his exile by the time 75'-76' rolled around he would of been more shot then he was, at least IMO.

EzzardFan
04-04-2010, 03:54 PM
All of BMR then lol, amazing boxers that all could of easily been world champs.

High Five :)