View Full Version : Lennox Lewis vs Roy Jones: who ranks higher on the ATG list?


General Zod
03-25-2010, 08:09 AM
Im going with Lewis on this

EDIT: This thread was created in response to Sonnybox's challenge. I'm not a Lewis fan, but im going to play Devil's Advocate here

Sugarj
03-25-2010, 08:48 AM
For 9 years Roy Jones was arguably pound for pound number 1 (1995-2004).

He was a pro since 1988! Only in the last 6 years has he been reduced to contender status and was clearly still world class before the Green fight. The Hopkins fight will show us if he has anything left.

I dont know about this journeyman assertion. Tarver and Johnson were top ten pound for pound ranked when he fought them, Calzaghe too. Jeff Lacy was still a world ranked fighter and Hopkins still makes pound for pound top 10lists now.

I'd edge Jones here.......

General Zod
03-25-2010, 09:05 AM
For 9 years Roy Jones was arguably pound for pound number 1 (1995-2004)
Apart from beating Toney back in 94, what did Jones do to deserve to be ranked so high on th p4p list?

He was a pro since 1988! Only in the last 6 years has he been reduced to contender status and was clearly still world class before the Green fight. The Hopkins fight will show us if he has anything left.
He hasnt beaten a relevant opponent since Tarver I back in 2003

I dont know about this journeyman assertion. Tarver and Johnson were top ten pound for pound ranked when he fought them, Calzaghe too. Jeff Lacy was still a world ranked fighter and Hopkins still makes pound for pound top 10lists now.
But the point is he lost to all of them

I'd edge Jones here.......

Lewis avenged all of his loses, something Jones hasn't done, he never allowed his losses to derail his career either. Lewis faced the top guys in his division while Jones somehow managed to miss most of them instead.

General Zod
03-25-2010, 10:19 AM
Roy Jones was No1 P4P for a whole decade and was considered at one stage in his career to be on a par with Sugar Ray Robinson as The Best Fighter of All Time..
What did Jones do to justify being ranked so high since 94? Because he beat Toney people were comparing him to Sugar Ray Robinson? lol. Evertime he fought a Brannon or Lucas he should of fell a place on the P4P rankings


Jones was ranked so highly on the P4P list because he was so dominant against every world class boxer from 154-175
How was he dominant when he missed the following fighters: Jackson, McClellan, Benn, Collins, Eubank, Nunn, LilIes, Rochiagni, Darius M, Jirov, Littles

Jones became the only 154lb boxing champion in over 100yrs to move up and capture The Heavyweight Championship of the World... only 2 men in history have ever achieved such a feat, Roy Jones & Bob Fitzsimons which is a remarkable achievement.
Ruiz was a belt holder not the Hw champion, which was Lennox Lewis at the time

Jones turned pro in 1989 at age 20yrs old, over the next 15yrs Jones won World Titles in 4 weight divisions from 154-200lbs.. such was Jones dominance that he virtually never even lost a single round and was being talked of as the greatest fighter of all times... After 15yrs of "Total-Dominance" Jones should have hung-up his gloves and called it a day with nothing left to prove in the Sport of Boxing,.
While somehow missing all the top fighters

yet like most he continued on, moving back down from 200lbs to the 175lb division, at age 35yrs it was clear to most that Jones was past his best and was "Losing-his-legs" when he won a close decision over Antonio Tarver.. in Their return fight 6 months later Jones suffered his first ever professional defeat, "Age had finally caught up with Roy Jones"... Jones still campaigns today even tho he is a shell of the superbe fighting machine he was in the 1990s and has suffered 4 defeats
Jones lost to Montell Griffin back in 97, him losing to Tarver had nothing to do with him losing his legs either


Since 2003 Jones has defeated -
John Ruiz - 2 time Heavyweight Champion
Antonio Tarver - 2 time Light-Heavyweight Champion
Felix Trinidad - 4 Division World Champion
Anthony Hanshaw - (undefeated)
Jeff Lacy - Former IBF Super-Middleweight Champion
Omar Shieka - 4 Time World Title Callenger
I hope you are joking with this list: Sheika, Hankshaw, Tito, Lacy, lol

Lewis vs Jones - Who ranks higher P4P is like asking who ranks higher between Ray Robinson or Frank Bruno

Lewis best wins:
Vitali Klitschko
Mike Tyson (past prime)
Evander Holyfield(past prime)
Tua
Golota
Tucker
Ruddock (past Prime)

Noticable losses:
McCall
Rahman

Jones Best wins:
Hopkins
Toney
Hill (past prime)
McCallum (past prime)
Ruiz
Johnson (past prime)

Noticable losses:
Johnson
Tarver II
Tarver III
Green
Calzaghe

musiol
03-25-2010, 10:23 AM
jones was the fukn daddy face it

General Zod
03-25-2010, 10:26 AM
jones was the fukn daddy face it
no, he missed to many fighters and openly ducked Jirov and Nunn

CarlosG815
03-25-2010, 10:28 AM
What did Jones do to justify being ranked so high since 94? Because he beat Toney people were comparing him to Sugar Ray Robinson? lol. Evertime he fought a Brannon or Lucas he should of fell a place on the P4P rankings


How was he dominant when he missed the following fighters: Jackson, McClellan, Benn, Collins, Eubank, Nunn, LilIes, Rochiagni, Darius M, Jirov, Littles

Ruiz was a belt holder not the Hw champion, which was Lennox Lewis at the time

While somehow missing all the top fighters

Jones lost to Montell Griffin back in 97, him losing to Tarver had nothing to do with him losing his legs either


I hope you are joking with this list: Sheika, Hankshaw, Tito, Lacy, lol


Lewis best wins:
Vitali Klitschko
Mike Tyson (past prime)
Evander Holyfield W
Evander Holyfield D
Tua
Golota
Morrison
Tucker
McCall
Ruddock (past Prime)

Noticable losses:
McCall
Rahman

Jones Best wins:
Hopkins
Toney
Hill (past prime)
McCallum (past prime)
Ruiz (c level fighter)
Johnson (past prime)

Noticable losses:
Johnson
Griffin
Tarver II
Tarver III
Green
Calzaghe

Jones beat Griffin but was disqualified. You are clearly delusional and so is the thread starter.

This LL stuff is ridiculous. How pathetic is your list you have Tyson, Holyfield, Morrison, McCall, etc as LL's best wins.

Sugarj
03-25-2010, 11:06 AM
Hi Hellboy: I'll take each in turn,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj
For 9 years Roy Jones was arguably pound for pound number 1 (1995-2004)

Apart from beating Toney back in 94, what did Jones do to deserve to be ranked so high on th p4p list?




It was the sheer dominance over who he did beat, hardly ever lost rounds. You dont fall pound for pound places for not having amazing rivals unless you look mediocre against mediocre opposition. In this time Lewis wasn't even ranked number one heavyweight consistently, Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson and Rahman were ranked ahead of him at times in the 9 years stated



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj
He was a pro since 1988! Only in the last 6 years has he been reduced to contender status and was clearly still world class before the Green fight. The Hopkins fight will show us if he has anything left.

He hasnt beaten a relevant opponent since Tarver I back in 2003



He had been a pro fifteen years! Give him a break, everyone is allowed to get old! Lewis had retired after 15 years as a pro!!!!!




Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj
I dont know about this journeyman assertion. Tarver and Johnson were top ten pound for pound ranked when he fought them, Calzaghe too. Jeff Lacy was still a world ranked fighter and Hopkins still makes pound for pound top 10lists now.

But the point is he lost to all of them



No, he beat Tarver first time and Lacy too......and who knows how he'll do against Hopkins? All when well past prime. If Lewis had kept fighting since what 2003/4 how many more times would he have lost by now?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj
I'd edge Jones here.......

Lewis avenged all of his loses, something Jones hasn't done, he never allowed his losses to derail his career either. Lewis faced the top guys in his division while Jones somehow managed to miss most of them instead.



Yes but Lewis's losses came against journeyman heavyweights who were massive underdogs in the first place. Damn right he should have avenged them. Plus Lewis was at least near his best when he lost these fights, he certainly wasn't shot. Roy was beaten by exceptional fighters when well past prime.

Who are these fighters that you think prime Jones should have faced? Jirov Mitchelcheivski (spelt wrong probably). Cant see him being an underdog there.

Shazam!
03-25-2010, 11:19 AM
Lewis defeated a higher quality of opponent (I don't count Trinidad for Jones as Trinidad came from a lower natural weight class and had been inactive for years).

But I voted Roy Jones. He totally embarassed his opponents, he was that much better than them. The guy was incredible. He was a genius. At times he toyed with his opponents, which people found boring, but a Jones highlights package is up there with the Mike Tysons and Manny Pacquiaos of the world for sheer entertainment.

I'm a big fan of Roy and Lennox, for their class outside the ring as well as in it. Roy's reaction to Lewis being screwed against Holyfield was classic.

General Zod
03-25-2010, 11:33 AM
Jones beat Griffin but was disqualified. You are clearly delusional and so is the thread starter.
he beat him but was also disqualified? He hit him twice when he was taking a knee

This LL stuff is ridiculous. How pathetic is your list you have Tyson, Holyfield, Morrison, McCall, etc as LL's best wins.
Is this the best you can argue? Why dont you present your case instead of nitpicking?

Jones can claim a 40 year old McCallum as a great win, but Lewis cant have Holyfield? Isnt this the Holyfield that had just beaten Mike twice?

General Zod
03-25-2010, 11:37 AM
Lewis defeated a higher quality of opponent (I don't count Trinidad for Jones as Trinidad came from a lower natural weight class and had been inactive for years).

But I voted Roy Jones. He totally embarassed his opponents, he was that much better than them. The guy was incredible. He was a genius. At times he toyed with his opponents, which people found boring, but a Jones highlights package is up there with the Mike Tysons and Manny Pacquiaos of the world for sheer entertainment.

I'm a big fan of Roy and Lennox, for their class outside the ring as well as in it. Roy's reaction to Lewis being screwed against Holyfield was classic.
fair enough, good post

For the record im not even a Lewis fan, but Sonnybox challenged me to do a thread so I did, with me playing Devils Advocate

The fact that people here cant find a solid arguemnt for Mr Jones makes me believe that they are much closer than I thought.

General Zod
03-25-2010, 11:47 AM
It was the sheer dominance over who he did beat, hardly ever lost rounds. You dont fall pound for pound places for not having amazing rivals unless you look mediocre against mediocre opposition. In this time Lewis wasn't even ranked number one heavyweight consistently, Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson and Rahman were ranked ahead of him at times in the 9 years stated
If you are only fighting part time fighters of course you are going to look spectacular. these guys were dreadful: Frazier, Harmon, Kelly, Telesco, Brannon, Vinny Paz etc and top fighter would look good against these types of opponents

He had been a pro fifteen years! Give him a break, everyone is allowed to get old! Lewis had retired after 15 years as a pro!!!!!]
Then he should of retired rather than continuing and harming his legacy

No, he beat Tarver first time and Lacy too......and who knows how he'll do against Hopkins? All when well past prime. If Lewis had kept fighting since what 2003/4 how many more times would he have lost by now?
But its not about fighting past your best, when you know you are clearly on the slide you leave the game rather than staying on and getting wiped out by fighters like Green. Lacy is also washed up and never that good to begin with

Yes but Lewis's losses came against journeyman heavyweights who were massive underdogs in the first place. Damn right he should have avenged them. Plus Lewis was at least near his best when he lost these fights, he certainly wasn't shot. Roy was beaten by exceptional fighters when well past prime
You consider : Tarver, Johson and Green exceptional?

Who are these fighters that you think prime Jones should have faced? Jirov Mitchelcheivski (spelt wrong probably).Cant see him being an underdog there.
It doesnt matter if he was the underdog or not, fights are decided in the ring not in the bookies.
Jrov who HBO wanted him to fight
McClellan who was calling him out at MW
Nunn who was his mandatory in 97
Rochiagnni who was the WBC champion, before he was stripped and had his belt given back to Jones
Liles at SMW
Benn at SMW
Eubank who offered him a fight at SMW
Toney II at LHW, which HBO also wanted

Shazam!
03-25-2010, 11:57 AM
When Holyfield fought Lewis in 99 he was a very, very good fighter. He was undisputed heavyweight champion of the world, having KOed Tyson about two and a half years earlier and going undefeated since then. He was rated as top 10 P4P in the world and his profile was so high in the late 90's that Ring Magazine in 1998 had him something like 3rd greatest heavyweight of all time (which is highly contentious but indicative of profile in the late 90's).

Holyfield is clearly a fighter who didn't deteriorate in the 90's in the same way that the likes of Tyson (mentally) and Bowe (physically) did.

Holyfield is a tough son of a ***** with an amazing chin, who kept himself in tip top shape throughout his career and with the help of dirty headbutting was able to maintain a very high level even in to his 40's. When he fought Lewis in 99 I believe he was in his mid-30's and still, if not in his prime, very close to it. The years prior to losing to Lewis were some of the best of his career.

A lot of comparisons can be made between Holyfield and Hopkins. Although Hopkins is still top 10 P4P now and Holyfield is nowhere near, they were both fighters who's conditioning, ring intelligence and questionable tactics kept them at the top of the game for a long time.

Funny how people forget. I remember before the Lewis/Tyson fight there were people everywhere saying Tyson was gonna knock Lewis out. Then after the fight it's 'oh, he was shot. It doesn't count,' when in fact, a lot of them are the same people who predicted a Tyson victory. And fair enough. Tyson's only career losses in the 17 years prior to the Lewis fight were in 90 against Douglas and the fights against Holyfield. Obviously Tyson wasn't the same fighter when he fought Lewis but it's laughable to see some of the crap people come out with like 'I could have beaten him that night'. No. Half of the story is usually how well the opposition handled the situation.

But this is how the average, fickel boxing fan takes their own personal slant on events in order to suit an argument.

For an indication of how meritable a victory is, try to remember (or research) what the climate was like BEFORE the fight took place and measure the victory against what those expectactions were. It's the easiest thing in the world to say someone was shot AFTER the event. If you had any real knowledge of the situation and any balls, you'd have made that same statement before the fight, not after it.

General Zod
03-25-2010, 12:00 PM
When Holyfield fought Lewis in 99 he was a very, very good fighter. He was undisputed heavyweight champion of the world, having KOed Tyson about two and a half years earlier and going undefeated since then. He was rated as top 10 P4P in the world and his profile was so high in the late 90's that Ring Magazine in 1998 had him something like 3rd greatest heavyweight of all time (which is highly contentious but indicative of profile in the late 90's).

Holyfield is clearly a fighter who didn't deteriorate in the 90's in the same way that the likes of Tyson (mentally) and Bowe (physically) did.

Holyfield is a tough son of a ***** with an amazing chin, who kept himself in tip top shape throughout his career and with the help of dirty headbutting was able to maintain a very high level even in to his 40's. When he fought Lewis in 99 I believe he was in his mid-30's and still, if not in his prime, very close to it. The years prior to losing to Lewis were some of the best of his career.

A lot of comparisons can be made between Holyfield and Hopkins. Although Hopkins is still top 10 P4P now and Holyfield is nowhere near, they were both fighters who's conditioning, ring intelligence and questionable tactics kept them at the top of the game for a long time.

Funny how people forget. I remember before the Lewis/Tyson fight there were people everywhere saying Tyson was gonna knock Lewis out. Then after the fight it's 'oh, he was shot. It doesn't count,' when in fact, a lot of them are the same people who predicted a Tyson victory. And fair enough. Tyson's only career losses in the 17 years prior to the Lewis fight were in 90 against Douglas and the fights against Holyfield. Obviously Tyson wasn't the same fighter when he fought Lewis but it's laughable to see some of the crap people come out with like 'I could have beaten him that night'. No. Half of the story is usually how well the opposition handled the situation.

But this is how the average, fickel boxing fan takes their own personal slant on events in order to suit an argument.

For an indication of how meritable a victory is, try to remember (or research) what the climate was like BEFORE the fight took place and measure the victory against what those expectactions were. It's the easiest thing in the world to say someone was shot AFTER the event. If you had any real knowledge of the situation and any balls, you'd have made that statement before the fight, not after it.
Another good post, im out of green unfortnately, ill hit you up tomorrow

Shazam!
03-25-2010, 12:04 PM
Another good post, im out of green unfortnately, ill hit you up tomorrow

Heh, no worries man

CarlosG815
03-25-2010, 03:55 PM
Why hasn't Sonnyboy responded to this thread? Did you block him? Is it because it hurts you and Shazam! when you hear the first hand truth of Lennox Lewis' career?

Why don't you just start a Lennox Lewis fan site and only allow people who love him as much as you to post and you can all have a Lewis orgy.

CarlosG815
03-25-2010, 04:04 PM
Is this the best you can argue? Why dont you present your case instead of nitpicking?

Jones can claim a 40 year old McCallum as a great win, but Lewis cant have Holyfield? Isnt this the Holyfield that had just beaten Mike twice?

I'm tired of rehashing the same old argument with you and your boyfriend Shazam!. Holyfield, regardless of how great he was capable of performing in his condition, was for the most part a sliding fighter but was still capable of having historical nights. Just shows how good he was. Tyson was a bum in 2002 (and still took the great Lennox 8 rounds), and the only reason anybody knew who McCall was is because he upset Lewis, so for Lewis to beat him, like he should have the first time, is not a glorious win, regardless of what your deluded mind may tell you. Morrison who? Give me a break, man.

Jones accomplished more than many fighters could ever dream of, and for you to compare underachiever of the century, over rated, bum beater, contender ducking Lewis to the great Roy Jones Jr tells me and everybody here that you're just a delusional fanboy who has no idea what he's talking about, who would rather defend his favorite fighter until death than face reality.

Here's an idea. Next time you're horny for Lewis, don't come to this site and post, just go to the bathroom and rub one out. :wank:

Once you get all your lust for Lennox out, you will be able to think with a more clear head - the one on your shoulders, not the one in your pants.

them_apples
03-25-2010, 04:20 PM
I think Lewis, due to the fact that Roy has spent the last third of his career as a fringe contender type fighter. And when you evaluate a persons resume you have to take the bad into account along with the good and unfortnately for Mr Jones there has been a lot of bad since 2003

Roy Jones. He's done terrible lately but that still hasn't tarnished what he did earlier on in his career. He is an ATG who beat other ATG's.

mickey malone
03-26-2010, 12:22 AM
Good posts from Shazam..

It's quite obvious from my perspective, Hellboy's overrating is equally as bad as Sonnyboy's underrating of Lewis.. We can all be guilty of letting our hearts rule our heads, and this thread is a typical example..
I don't think Sonny's been excluded.. He knows he only has to sit back to prove his point on this one, as it was an open challenge for Hellboy to post this poll..
Unfortunately for Hellboy, he's fallen for it.. As much as I disagree with Sonny on his reckless overrating of underdogs, I'm afraid he's spot on with this one..
Lewis is by far the better heavyweight, but P4P Jones ranks higher..
However, Hellboy does have a very good argument when it comes to Jones's ducks..
McClellan, Benn, Jackson, Collins, Eubank, Kessler were all avoided by Jones..

Obama
03-26-2010, 12:48 AM
I don't think you understand the concept of p4p at all. RJJ was never supposed to be Heavyweight Champion. Lewis on the other hand, Mr. Super Heavyweight, was supposed to beat everyone he faced, and the first god damn time around at that. His two losses easily disqualify him from giving him the benefit of the doubt.

mickey malone
03-26-2010, 02:57 AM
I don't think you understand the concept of p4p at all. RJJ was never supposed to be Heavyweight Champion. Lewis on the other hand, Mr. Super Heavyweight, was supposed to beat everyone he faced, and the first god damn time around at that. His two losses easily disqualify him from giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Not sure if this directed at me, but my concept of P4P is how many other P4P greats a fighter has on his resume.. In which case, it's 2-1 to Jones, as I'd say victories over Hopkins and Toney outweigh a draw and a win over Holyfield..

Shazam!
03-26-2010, 06:23 AM
At the time Lewis fought and defeated them them, David Tua (peak), Vitali Klitschko (peak), Andrew Golota (peak), Ray Mercer, Tony Tucker, Tyrell Biggs, and Razor Ruddock all had strong resumes.

EDIT: There's also an argument for Michael Grant to be put in that list. Before he fought Lewis he had earned respectable victories over a string of good fighters such as Lionel Butler, Lou Savarese, Corrie Sanders and Andrew Golota. He was heavily hyped going in to the Lewis match and many people thought his 6'7 height and 86' reach could give Lewis problems.

mickey malone
03-26-2010, 07:02 AM
At the time Lewis fought and defeated them them, David Tua (peak), Vitali Klitschko (peak), Andrew Golota (peak), Ray Mercer, Tony Tucker, Tyrell Biggs, and Razor Ruddock all had strong resumes.

EDIT: There's also an argument for Michael Grant to be put in that list. Before he fought Lewis he had earned respectable victories over a string of good fighters such as Lionel Butler, Lou Savarese, Corrie Sanders and Andrew Golota. He was heavily hyped going in to the Lewis match and many people thought his 6'7 height and 86' reach could give Lewis problems.
You mean Corey 'T-Rex' Sanders.. A 350lb US journeyman..

Shazam!
03-26-2010, 07:15 AM
You mean Corey 'T-Rex' Sanders.. A 350lb US journeyman..

Sorry, yeah you're right. It wasn't the South African Corrie Sanders. Big difference!

I remember there were pretty high expectations of Grant around that time though.

mickey malone
03-26-2010, 09:35 AM
Sorry, yeah you're right. It wasn't the South African Corrie Sanders. Big difference!

I remember there were pretty high expectations of Grant around that time though.
Grant was in the top 10 and wasn't being considered by anyone else, which probably had something to do with him steamrollering all over his previous 20 odd opponents.. I believe he'd even made the cover of Ring Magazine and no one was in a rush to fight a 6'7" puncher.. Like you, I give Lewis credit for taking the fight and exposing him in style..

bojangles1987
03-26-2010, 10:08 AM
The bad end to Roy Jones's career does not wipe out everything he did before his fall. He did more and was easily p4p a better fighter than Lennox Lewis.

The_Demon
03-26-2010, 10:25 AM
roy jones ranks higher than lewis

RJJ could rank even higher in higher in my ATG list if he had made a few better decisions in his career and taken different fights

General Zod
03-26-2010, 12:49 PM
Good posts from Shazam..

It's quite obvious from my perspective, Hellboy's overrating is equally as bad as Sonnyboy's underrating of Lewis.. We can all be guilty of letting our hearts rule our heads, and this thread is a typical example..
I don't think Sonny's been excluded.. He knows he only has to sit back to prove his point on this one, as it was an open challenge for Hellboy to post this poll..
Unfortunately for Hellboy, he's fallen for it.. As much as I disagree with Sonny on his reckless overrating of underdogs, I'm afraid he's spot on with this one..
Lewis is by far the better heavyweight, but P4P Jones ranks higher..
However, Hellboy does have a very good argument when it comes to Jones's ducks..
McClellan, Benn, Jackson, Collins, Eubank, Kessler were all avoided by Jones..
Kessler? Benn? you have any info to back this up?

General Zod
03-26-2010, 12:59 PM
Why hasn't Sonnyboy responded to this thread? Did you block him? Is it because it hurts you and Shazam! when you hear the first hand truth of Lennox Lewis' career?
Sonnybox is delusional and I responded to one of his posts already. I have proved him wrong again and again, but he keeps on going on with the same old story, its boring debating with him.

Why don't you just start a Lennox Lewis fan site and only allow people who love him as much as you to post and you can all have a Lewis orgy.
If you dont like the thread topic why dont stay out of it instead. Or why dont you start a thread about a certain fighter who career started in 86 and was washed up by 88.

General Zod
03-26-2010, 01:05 PM
I'm tired of rehashing the same old argument with you and your boyfriend Shazam!. Holyfield, regardless of how great he was capable of performing in his condition, was for the most part a sliding fighter but was still capable of having historical nights. Just shows how good he was. .
So was it a good win or not according to you?


Tyson was a bum in 2002 (and still took the great Lennox 8 rounds),.
Thats because he chose to be one, you notice I said past prime, right?

and the only reason anybody knew who McCall was is because he upset Lewis, so for Lewis to beat him, like he should have the first time, is not a glorious win, regardless of what your deluded mind may tell you. Morrison who? Give me a break, man.
Did I say it was a glorious win?

Jones accomplished more than many fighters could ever dream of, and for you to compare underachiever of the century, over rated, bum beater, contender ducking Lewis.
Instead of stating this like its a fact, why dont you present your arguement instead? You do have one, right?

to the great Roy Jones Jr tells me and everybody here that you're just a delusional fanboy who has no idea what he's talking about, who would rather defend his favorite fighter until death than face reality.
lol at this, your getting upset because I favour another fighter over Jones? lol

Here's an idea. Next time you're horny for Lewis, don't come to this site and post, just go to the bathroom and rub one out. :wank:

Once you get all your lust for Lennox out, you will be able to think with a more clear head - the one on your shoulders, not the one in your pants.
Personal insults because I dont rate your favourite fighter? How old are you, 10 years old?

fight_professor
03-26-2010, 01:13 PM
Is this a joke?

AT P4P, RJJ is way up there, top 25 maybe. Lewis was successful, but never spectacular. RJJ used to make us all sit up and say "damn, you see that?". He was a magician.

Jim Jeffries
03-26-2010, 01:15 PM
Is this a joke?

AT P4P, RJJ is way up there, top 10 maybe. Lewis was successful, but never spectacular. RJJ used to make us all sit up and say "damn, you see that?". He was a magician.

Roy Jones Jr.

Top 10 ATG?

Please tell me you're joking.

General Zod
03-26-2010, 01:24 PM
Is this a joke?

AT P4P, RJJ is way up there, top 25 maybe. Lewis was successful, but never spectacular. RJJ used to make us all sit up and say "damn, you see that?". He was a magician.
You rank him up there with Archie Moore and those guys?

Jim Jeffries
03-26-2010, 01:27 PM
You rank him up there with Archie Moore and those guys?

He edited it from top 10 immediately after my post.

General Zod
03-26-2010, 01:31 PM
He edited it from top 10 immediately after my post.
I wouldn't even rank him top 50, his in the 85-95 range for me

fight_professor
03-26-2010, 01:38 PM
Roy Jones Jr.

Top 10 ATG?

Please tell me you're joking.

Actually, I edited it to 25 before any responses. But, I maintain that at his best, he'd rate right up there.

General Zod
03-26-2010, 01:40 PM
Actually, I edited it to 25 before any responses. But, I maintain that at his best, he'd rate right up there.
Who are his best wins, according to you?

fight_professor
03-26-2010, 01:45 PM
RJJ best for me are: BHop (1), James Toney, Trinidad, Tarver. In context Ruiz.


But its equally important how dominant he has. He went from MW to win a HW title, that puts him in the superelite.

D-MiZe
03-26-2010, 01:47 PM
Roy higher than Lewis, just because of his multi-divisional achievements.

General Zod
03-26-2010, 01:52 PM
Roy higher than Lewis, just because of his multi-divisional achievements.
good point

General Zod
03-26-2010, 01:54 PM
RJJ best for me are: BHop (1), James Toney, Trinidad, Tarver. In context Ruiz.


But its equally important how dominant he has. He went from MW to win a HW title, that puts him in the superelite.

Bhop, Toney, Ruiz and Tarver a bit, Ive never rated Tarver. Tito was prime at ww, and it was his first fight at lhw, so thats a ok win, not a great win imo.

Where do you rank Toney and BHop on the ATG list?

CarlosG815
03-26-2010, 02:27 PM
Sonnybox is delusional and I responded to one of his posts already. I have proved him wrong again and again, but he keeps on going on with the same old story, its boring debating with him.

So you did block him. Why make posts if you don't want anybody to debate with? You're like Lennox Lewis, always looking for the easy road.


If you dont like the thread topic why dont stay out of it instead. Or why dont you start a thread about a certain fighter who career started in 86 and was washed up by 88.

Because it bothers me that somebody is stupid enough to even ask who ranks higher on an ATG list when one person is the great RJJ and the other is Lennox Lewis.

And are you talking about a fighter who accomplished more in his 2 year career than Lennox did in 15 years, and will go down in history as the better, higher ranked fighter, who was beloved and known around the entire world (not just a tiny island in the northeast Atlantic) for his ability to bring excitement to the ring and carried heavyweight boxing on his shoulders and destroyed his opposition from 85-92 in spectacular fashion?

I could make a thread about that fighter, but there are many others who already have, as his greatness is known the world over, unlike Lennox. You are all alone in your Lennox Lewis world, face it.

fight_professor
03-26-2010, 02:33 PM
Both James Toney and BHop's achievements alone put them up there, top 50, if not just further back.

CarlosG815
03-26-2010, 02:39 PM
So was it a good win or not according to you?

No, like many of Lewis' wins it was beautifully orchestrated by Lewis and his management. He would have never fought Holyfield in the early 90's and there's a reason for that. Why didn't he fight early 90's Holyfield? Because he was too busy getting outboxed by guys like Frank Bruno to deal with a tank like Holyfield and he knew it. He waited until Holyfield was on his last legs, at least 5 years past his prime, and he pounced on him like a coward, and still couldn't come out with a convincing win. So no, it was not a good win in any regard.


Did I say it was a glorious win?

You mention it among his great wins, so you didn't use that word, but you are trying to put that fighter on a pedestal to make it seem like a good win for Lewis.


Instead of stating this like its a fact, why dont you present your arguement instead? You do have one, right?

Like I said in my first sentence, I'm tired of rehashing it with you and your boyfriend Shazam!. You don't want to hear it anyway, otherwise you wouldn't have blocked Sonnyboy.


Personal insults because I dont rate your favourite fighter? How old are you, 10 years old?
He isn't my favorite fighter, but he is so far ahead of Lewis that it's ridiculous to even put them in the same conversation and ask the question "Who is ranked higher?"

Get a grip, dude. You can't expect to come to boxingscene and have this conversation in the Boxing history forum, or non-stop boxing, because most of us don't have a blind loyalty to a particular fighter because we're proud he is of our heritage.

You would be better suited to have these convo's in the limey lang, where most people would probably rank Lewis higher than the great Roy Jones Jr.

General Zod
03-26-2010, 02:48 PM
So you did block him. Why make posts if you don't want anybody to debate with? You're like Lennox Lewis, always looking for the easy road.
Dude, I challenge you to make a case against Lewis and I bet I will shot it down. I proved sonnybox wrong on everything he said, everything and all he did was go over the same points.

Go and read from my post at the bottom too see what happened with me and Sonnybox
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367439&page=8

Because it bothers me that somebody is stupid enough to even ask who ranks higher on an ATG list when one person is the great RJJ and the other is Lennox Lewis
Are you really that immature, you have to resort to name calling again? How old are you 5 years old?

And are you talking about a fighter who accomplished more in his 2 year career than Lennox did in 15 years, and will go down in history as the better, higher ranked fighter, who was beloved and known around the entire world (not just a tiny island in the northeast Atlantic) for his ability to bring excitement to the ring and carried heavyweight boxing on his shoulders and destroyed his opposition from 85-92 in spectacular fashion?
Who did he destroy according to you? Why is it you never present an arguement just state your opinion like its facts.

I could make a thread about that fighter, but there are many others who already have, as his greatness is known the world over, unlike Lennox. You are all alone in your Lennox Lewis world, face it.
Dude. lol at this. Is this the best you can do? No arguement, no case nothing just stating your opinion like its a fact, lol

General Zod
03-26-2010, 02:55 PM
No, like many of Lewis' wins it was beautifully orchestrated by Lewis and his management. He would have never fought Holyfield in the early 90's and there's a reason for that. Why didn't he fight early 90's Holyfield? Because he was too busy getting outboxed by guys like Frank Bruno to deal with a tank like Holyfield and he knew it. He waited until Holyfield was on his last legs, at least 5 years past his prime, and he pounced on him like a coward, and still couldn't come out with a convincing win. So no, it was not a good win in any regard.
lol at this
"While he was incarcerated, the WBC ordered a title eliminator between No. 1 ranked Razor Ruddock and No. 2 ranked Riddick Bowe, which was accepted by both in writing. After making such commitment, Bowe decided to pull out of the agreement and instead fight Pierre Coetzer of South Africa. The WBC then ordered the eliminator to be between Ruddock and No. 3 ranked Lennox Lewis, with the winner to be the official challenger for the world championship; Lewis won the fight. Main Events, who had the promotional rights to Holyfield, informed the WBC that Holyfield would not fight Lewis because he did not have a marketable name, but would fight Bowe instead. The Holyfield vs Bowe fight was authorized by the WBC with the condition that the winner fight Lewis. Bowe won the title, but instead of honoring his written agreement to fight Lewis, he refused to pay the WBC sanctioning fee and threw the championship belt into a London waste basket.

http://cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/wbc10-7.htm




You mention it among his great wins, so you didn't use that word, but you are trying to put that fighter on a pedestal to make it seem like a good win for Lewis.
He avenged his loss, beating McCall is just as good as Jones beating a past prime Hill as well

Like I said in my first sentence, I'm tired of rehashing it with you and your boyfriend Shazam!. You don't want to hear it anyway, otherwise you wouldn't have blocked Sonnyboy.
Is this the best you can do? lol. You havent presented a case yet, lol
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367439&page=8

He isn't my favorite fighter, but he is so far ahead of Lewis that it's ridiculous to even put them in the same conversation and ask the question "Who is ranked higher?".
Present your case or be quiet

Get a grip, dude. You can't expect to come to boxingscene and have this conversation in the Boxing history forum, or non-stop boxing, because most of us don't have a blind loyalty to a particular fighter because we're proud he is of our heritage.
Present your case

You would be better suited to have these convo's in the limey lang, where most people would probably rank Lewis higher than the great Roy Jones Jr.
In other words you have no case, right? If its such a clear fact then why can you not present a case to prove your point?

CarlosG815
03-26-2010, 02:58 PM
Dude, I challenge you to make a case against Lewis and I bet I will shot it down. I proved sonnybox wrong on everything he said, everything and all he did was go over the same points.

Go and read from my post at the bottom too see what happened with me and Sonnybox
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367439&page=8

Are you really that immature, you have to resort to name calling again? How old are you 5 years old?

Who did he destroy according to you? Why is it you never present an arguement just state your opinion like its facts.

Dude. lol at this. Is this the best you can do? No arguement, no case nothing just stating your opinion like its a fact, lol

You ask for facts on common knowledge things? Did you just ask who Tyson destroyed? Who didn't he destroy? That list is much shorter. WTF man? Have you ever watched anybody but Lennox Lewis fight? I'm beginning to think the only Tyson fight you've ever seen was against Lennox Lewis in 2002.

You are the most delusional person I've ever seen on this forum, and that's bad because the Pinoys on NSB are among the worst, but you take the cake. At least their fighter is great.

General Zod
03-26-2010, 03:03 PM
You ask for facts on common knowledge things? Did you just ask who Tyson destroyed? Who didn't he destroy? That list is much shorter. WTF man?
Did destory:
Thomas: past prime/drugs
Larry Holmes: past prime/out of shape
Berbick: Never any good to begin with
Bruno: lol
And you are trashing Lewis's resume?
Didnt destroy:
Buster 'KFC' Douglas, Tucker, Bone Crusher,Green and Tillman


Have you ever watched anybody but Lennox Lewis fight? I'm beginning to think the only Tyson fight you've ever seen was against Lennox Lewis in 2002.

Dude dont you think its strange that i know more about Jones career than a so called fan, which you claim to be.

You are the most delusional person I've ever seen on this forum, and that's bad because the Pinoys on NSB are among the worst, but you take the cake. At least their fighter is great.
You make no case, petty insults, call for help from sonnybox and im the deluded one, lol:rofl:

General Zod
03-26-2010, 03:37 PM
Both James Toney and BHop's achievements alone put them up there, top 50, if not just further back.
You rank them top 50? What has Hopkins done to be ranked so high? And where do you rank Mike McCallum on your ATG list?

fight_professor
03-26-2010, 07:05 PM
He'd be around their level.

General Zod
03-26-2010, 07:19 PM
He'd be around their level.
I would have McCallum above Hopkins and Toney, more accomplished fighter imo

Jim Jeffries
03-26-2010, 07:22 PM
You ask for facts on common knowledge things? Did you just ask who Tyson destroyed? Who didn't he destroy? That list is much shorter. WTF man? Have you ever watched anybody but Lennox Lewis fight? I'm beginning to think the only Tyson fight you've ever seen was against Lennox Lewis in 2002.

You are the most delusional person I've ever seen on this forum, and that's bad because the Pinoys on NSB are among the worst, but you take the cake. At least their fighter is great.

I think he means what quality opponent did Tyson destroy that wasn't either aging, bloated and inactive (Holmes) or a blown up LHW (Spinks?)

CarlosG815
03-26-2010, 07:42 PM
Did destory:
Thomas: past prime/drugs
Larry Holmes: past prime/out of shape
Berbick: Never any good to begin with
Bruno: lol
And you are trashing Lewis's resume?
Didnt destroy:
Buster 'KFC' Douglas, Tucker, Bone Crusher,Green and Tillman


Dude dont you think its strange that i know more about Jones career than a so called fan, which you claim to be.

You make no case, petty insults, call for help from sonnybox and im the deluded one, lol:rofl:

You pleading for a case is your last resort in getting the last word in. It's what you say when you have nothing of value to say to combat what I just said to you. I say Holyfield was sliding in 99, and you say to plead my case? I thought that was common knowledge?

You're a wannabe attorney who just tries to tell people to plead their case for every remark they make, and that's now how forums work - this is not the supreme court, and you are not a defending attorney like you pretend to be. Am I going to have to plead my case for that last remark? Just read every post you've made on this thread - the jury will agree you're annoying and are asking for things that just aren't there.

All the guys you listed above that Tyson fought, while they were good fighters, some were past prime, but here's the difference: Tyson decimated that kind of opposition. He made Larry Holmes look like a bum - a Larry Holmes that would have beat Lennox in a UD. See that's the difference. Lennox fought past prime guys, or guys who aren't very good and never did anything spectacular with them, despite their lack of skills. When I can't sleep at night do you know what I do? I watch a Lennox Lewis highlight video, and it puts me right to sleep.

Those are just the facts, whether there is an article written by somebody out there to back it up is irrelevant, it's just what everybody in the boxing world knows, aside from you and other Lewis huggers. :dunno:

CarlosG815
03-26-2010, 07:45 PM
I think he means what quality opponent did Tyson destroy that wasn't either aging, bloated and inactive (Holmes) or a blown up LHW (Spinks?)

He fought everybody in the HW division that was worth fighting - there isn't much more you can ask.

Are there fighters that you feel Tyson ducked from 85-92? If so, which ones?

Jim Jeffries
03-26-2010, 08:31 PM
He fought everybody in the HW division that was worth fighting - there isn't much more you can ask.

Are there fighters that you feel Tyson ducked from 85-92? If so, which ones?

You mean besides Holyfield and Foreman?

CarlosG815
03-26-2010, 09:36 PM
You mean besides Holyfield and Foreman?

The foreman rumor that is a proven myth? Holyfield that was ready to go before Mike went to Prison? That's the best you can come up with? Holy wasn't really an established hw before that time anyway. Mike had no reason to dodge either of those fighters.

Again, who did he duck? Legit answers only please, no myths.

Jim Jeffries
03-26-2010, 10:53 PM
The foreman rumor that is a proven myth? Holyfield that was ready to go before Mike went to Prison? That's the best you can come up with? Holy wasn't really an established hw before that time anyway. Mike had no reason to dodge either of those fighters.

Again, who did he duck? Legit answers only please, no myths.

Holyfield was the Undisputed CW champ and had already fought guys like Dokes and Thomas at HW. Fighting Buster fricken Douglas instead of Holyfield was pathetic.

Explain this Foreman myth for me, I need some entertainment.

CarlosG815
03-26-2010, 10:56 PM
Holyfield was the Undisputed CW champ and had already fought guys like Dokes and Thomas at HW. Fighting Buster fricken Douglas instead of Holyfield was pathetic.

Explain this Foreman myth for me, I need some entertainment.


Of course you need entertainment, it's not like you can get it from watching your hero's Klitschko and Lewis.

The Foreman rumor was started by Don King supposedly trying to put together a Foreman/Tyson fight. Apparently as the story goes, Tyson made a remark to King saying "You want him so bad, you fight him."

The fact is Holyfield wasn't going anywhere in 90, and the fight was going to happen in 92, but Mike went to prison.

bolopunchez
03-26-2010, 11:04 PM
Holyfield was the Undisputed CW champ and had already fought guys like Dokes and Thomas at HW. Fighting Buster fricken Douglas instead of Holyfield was pathetic.

Explain this Foreman myth for me, I need some entertainment.

Douglas was supposed to be a tune-up fight, for him. He was scheduled to fight Holyfield, later on in the same year.

Jim Jeffries
03-26-2010, 11:15 PM
Of course you need entertainment, it's not like you can get it from watching your hero's Klitschko and Lewis.

The Foreman rumor was started by Don King supposedly trying to put together a Foreman/Tyson fight. Apparently as the story goes, Tyson made a remark to King saying "You want him so bad, you fight him."

The fact is Holyfield wasn't going anywhere in 90, and the fight was going to happen in 92, but Mike went to prison.

That's the Foreman myth? I'm disappointed. Cause here I thought he was 20-0 with 19 knockouts in his comeback, at the time Tyson fought that nobody Buster Douglas.

Holyfield moved to HW in 88 and had a pretty decent HW resume by 90.

Haven't you been crying for the Klits to fight Haye since before Valuev, when he'd faced absolutely no one?

mickey malone
03-27-2010, 01:00 AM
Kessler? Benn? you have any info to back this up?
My mistake.. I stand corrected with Kessler because Jones was already campaigning at LH by the time Kessler became champion..

Benn is a different story.. Their caeers ran identical paths.. Both fought at MW and SMW between 89-96.. I know Benn wanted Jones, but he got McClellan instead, where as Jones fought neither of them.. Jones fought mainly IBF contenders, who in my opinion were at the shallow end of the pool..

CarlosG815
03-27-2010, 08:18 AM
That's the Foreman myth? I'm disappointed. Cause here I thought he was 20-0 with 19 knockouts in his comeback, at the time Tyson fought that nobody Buster Douglas.

Holyfield moved to HW in 88 and had a pretty decent HW resume by 90.

Haven't you been crying for the Klits to fight Haye since before Valuev, when he'd faced absolutely no one?

You're still talking as if the Holyfield fight wasn't going to happen. Why? It was going to go down until Mike went to prison. How can you not know this?

The Foreman myth is that Mike ducked him, which isn't true. That fight didn't even go to the negotiation table.

And no I haven't been crying for the Klits to fight anybody. I would rather watch paint dry than watch them fight.

Ziggy Stardust
03-27-2010, 10:50 AM
"Entertaining" isn't a factor in determining the greatness of a fighter. If it where Floyd Mayweather would be a club fighter and Arturo Gatti would be the GOAT.

Poet

General Zod
03-27-2010, 11:10 AM
"Entertaining" isn't a factor in determining the greatness of a fighter. If it where Floyd Mayweather would be a club fighter and Arturo Gatti would be the GOAT.

Poet
lmao:rofl:

Ziggy Stardust
03-27-2010, 11:21 AM
lmao:rofl:

Seriously! I really hate it when you try and discuss how great certain fighters where and people bring up how entertaining they where as if it has any bearing on who was better.

Poet

General Zod
03-27-2010, 11:38 AM
Seriously! I really hate it when you try and discuss how great certain fighters where and people bring up how entertaining they where as if it has any bearing on who was better.

Poet
I was hoping to have a interesting debate, but instead all I get is opinions stated as facts and accusations of being a fanboy, lol

EDIT:
On further thought after watching another entertaining Tyson highlight vid on Youtube, I have now decided to place him at no 1 on my ATG list:rofl:

General Zod
03-27-2010, 11:39 AM
My mistake.. I stand corrected with Kessler because Jones was already campaigning at LH by the time Kessler became champion..

Benn is a different story.. Their caeers ran identical paths.. Both fought at MW and SMW between 89-96.. I know Benn wanted Jones, but he got McClellan instead, where as Jones fought neither of them.. Jones fought mainly IBF contenders, who in my opinion were at the shallow end of the pool..
Benn wanted to fight Jones after McClellan back in 95

Ziggy Stardust
03-27-2010, 11:41 AM
I was hoping to have a interesting debate, but instead all I get is opinions stated as facts and accusations of being a fanboy, lol

EDIT:
On further thought after watching another entertaining Tyson highlight vid on Youtube, I have now decided to place him at no 1 on my ATG list:rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

General Zod
03-27-2010, 12:03 PM
You pleading for a case is your last resort in getting the last word in. It's what you say when you have nothing of value to say to combat what I just said to you. I say Holyfield was sliding in 99, and you say to plead my case? I thought that was common knowledge?
Two great wins over Tyson and ko win over Moorer, but he was on the slide in your opinion?
It was also common knowledge that Douglas was going to get wiped out by Tyson, if you get my point.

You're a wannabe attorney who just tries to tell people to plead their case for every remark they make, and that's now how forums work - this is not the supreme court, and you are not a defending attorney like you pretend to be. Am I going to have to plead my case for that last remark? Just read every post you've made on this thread - the jury will agree you're annoying and are asking for things that just aren't there.
lmao:rofl:

All the guys you listed above that Tyson fought, while they were good fighters, some were past prime, but here's the difference: Tyson decimated that kind of opposition. He made Larry Holmes look like a bum - a Larry Holmes that would have beat Lennox in a UD.
Is that the same Larry Holmes who was way past prime and took the fight at around 7 weeks notice?

See that's the difference. Lennox fought past prime guys, or guys who aren't very good and never did anything spectacular with them, despite their lack of skills. When I can't sleep at night do you know what I do? I watch a Lennox Lewis highlight video, and it puts me right to sleep.
You know if you put done Lewis's resume, you also put down Tyson's:
Common Opponents:
Tyrell Biggs
Donovan Ruddock
Tony Tucker
Frank Bruno
Evander Holyfield
Francois Botha
Andrew Golota
Or were these guys all prime when Tyson fought then and then completely shot when Lewis fought them according to you?

Those are just my opinions, whether there is an article written by somebody out there to back it up is irrelevant, it's just what I think, aside from you and other Lewis huggers.
Fixed it for you

Ziggy Stardust
03-27-2010, 12:12 PM
If you make a claim you'd best be prepared to back it up with some facts: Your "opinion" plus $4 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Poet

razzledaz 38
03-28-2010, 04:30 PM
jones has to be rated higher...he was a class above for so many years..

mickey malone
03-29-2010, 12:14 AM
Benn wanted to fight Jones after McClellan back in 95
I'm not so sure Benn wanted to fight anyone after McClellan..

General Zod
03-29-2010, 11:11 AM
I'm not so sure Benn wanted to fight anyone after McClellan..
Yeah he wanted to fight Jones, called him out after the McClellan fight and called him out after the Nardiello fight, seen here:
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xgcl9qLqX5I&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xgcl9qLqX5I&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
Jones said that he couldn't take the fight, because King wanted options on his fights afterwards. Want me to find the link?

mickey malone
03-29-2010, 11:43 AM
Yeah he wanted to fight Jones, called him out after the McClellan fight and called him out after the Nardiello fight, seen here:
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xgcl9qLqX5I&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xgcl9qLqX5I&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
Jones said that he couldn't take the fight, because King wanted options on his fights afterwards. Want me to find the link?
Cheers, I was under the impression he fought Nardiello just b4 McClellan, but it was the fight after instead..
No need to send the other link, as I've always stated that Jones ducked him, just had the dates wrong..

General Zod
03-29-2010, 11:49 AM
Cheers, I was under the impression he fought Nardiello just b4 McClellan, but it was the fight after instead..
No need to send the other link, as I've always stated that Jones ducked him, just had the dates wrong..
It would be nice to find out what really happened someday

mickey malone
03-30-2010, 04:07 AM
It would be nice to find out what really happened someday
Well I might be wrong, but I did hear a rumour that the winner of Eubank-Benn II was to have his next 3 fights under the ill-fated Warren-King partnership.. Oddly enough, the fight ended in a controversial draw and the liason between King and Warren soon fell apart with King claiming around 6 million quid in damages.. Can you add anything to this, or is it as I said, 'Only a rumour?'
Although it's pretty obvious Jones avoided punchers, I don't think Benn with his free-swinging style would have worried him.. I can't help but think, Don King would have had the final say on it.. I also firmly believe that it was more than just a fighter-promoter relationship between Jones and King, it was more like they were drinking buddies..
I always got the impression that the Don took extra special care of him..

General Zod
03-30-2010, 12:09 PM
Well I might be wrong, but I did hear a rumour that the winner of Eubank-Benn II was to have his next 3 fights under the ill-fated Warren-King partnership. Oddly enough, the fight ended in a controversial draw and the liason between King and Warren soon fell apart with King claiming around 6 million quid in damages.. Can you add anything to this, or is it as I said, 'Only a rumour?'
Yes the fight did end in a controversial draw and Barry Hearn saw the loophole which allowed him and Eubank to pull out of it. Warren and Benn willingly entered into it. The three fight deal lasted from the Wharton fight and ended with the McClellan fight. After recuperating from the McClellan fight, Benn would sign another 3 fight deal with King, which started with the Nardiello fight and ended with the Malinga fight. After that the rest of his fights were just with Warren. I dont know anything about the Warren King deal falling apart, although he would work with King later on, Bruno McCall comes to mind. Benn said in a book called War, Baby that King looked after him and he hasnt got a bad word to say about him

Although it's pretty obvious Jones avoided punchers, I don't think Benn with his free-swinging style would have worried him.. I can't help but think, Don King would have had the final say on it.. I also firmly believe that it was more than just a fighter-promoter relationship between Jones and King, it was more like they were drinking buddies..
I always got the impression that the Don took extra special care of him.
Jones and King were never firends, especially after King tried to rob him of 100K with the Showtime offer. King didn't like the fact that he always had to go through Levin, he tried to play the Jew card with Jones (and later Toney) , but he got nowhere with it. Jones mainly worked with Arum, later on Murad Muhammad and wouldn't work with King until the Ruiz fight.

I think Benn had at best a punchers chance of beating Jones, especially after the McClellan fight.As for the punchers comment, the facts speak for themselves.

mickey malone
03-30-2010, 02:04 PM
Yes the fight did end in a controversial draw and Barry Hearn saw the loophole which allowed him and Eubank to pull out of it. Warren and Benn willingly entered into it. The three fight deal lasted from the Wharton fight and ended with the McClellan fight. After recuperating from the McClellan fight, Benn would sign another 3 fight deal with King, which started with the Nardiello fight and ended with the Malinga fight. After that the rest of his fights were just with Warren. I dont know anything about the Warren King deal falling apart, although he would work with King later on, Bruno McCall comes to mind. Benn said in a book called War, Baby that King looked after him and he hasnt got a bad word to say about him

Jones and King were never firends, especially after King tried to rob him of 100K with the Showtime offer. King didn't like the fact that he always had to go through Levin, he tried to play the Jew card with Jones (and later Toney) , but he got nowhere with it. Jones mainly worked with Arum, later on Murad Muhammad and wouldn't work with King until the Ruiz fight.

I think Benn had at best a punchers chance of beating Jones, especially after the McClellan fight.As for the punchers comment, the facts speak for themselves.
Quote; Hellboy: Jones and King were never firends, especially after King tried to rob him of 100K with the Showtime offer. King didn't like the fact that he always had to go through Levin, he tried to play the Jew card with Jones (and later Toney) , but he got nowhere with it. Jones mainly worked with Arum, later on Murad Muhammad and wouldn't work with King until the Ruiz fight.

I think Benn had at best a punchers chance of beating Jones, especially after the McClellan fight.As for the punchers comment, the facts speak for themselves.

I bet that Jones got more money for fighting Ruiz than he did for any of his fights with Arum.. More than enough money for $100,000 to bear into insignificance anyway.. But yes, that doesn't mean to say they were friends.. One of King's main qualities, is to give over that impression..

Yep, I'd give Benn a punchers chance if he jumped on him the way he did Barkley.. But if he tried to box with Jones, I'm afraid the longer the fight went on, the more he would be schooled..

General Zod
03-30-2010, 02:24 PM
I bet that Jones got more money for fighting Ruiz than he did for any of his fights with Arum.. More than enough money for $100,000 to bear into insignificance anyway.. But yes, that doesn't mean to say they were friends.. One of King's main qualities, is to give over that impression..

Yep, I'd give Benn a punchers chance if he jumped on him the way he did Barkley.. But if he tried to box with Jones, I'm afraid the longer the fight went on, the more he would be schooled..
Jones got a guarenteed 10M up front and a slice of the ppv buys for the Ruiz fight, which is why he never bothered to take part in the promotions for the fight. You cant really compare it with Arum because of the historical significance of it i.e a MW fighting at HW. Before the Ruiz fight I think Jones best payday was for his fight with Toney, which did 300K ppvs. I think Jones got about 2.5m for that fight, which was promoted by Arum.