View Full Version : Manny Pacquiao vs Julio Cesar Chavez at 135lb


Southpaw16BF
03-22-2010, 01:00 PM
Who wins and how?

CarlosG815
03-22-2010, 02:44 PM
Chavez by mutilation.

Chavez is fast and Manny takes a lot of punches from everybody he faces. Chavez has too much power for Manny to eat his punches and stick around.

Manny just isn't good enough to go toe to toe with certain ATG's and Chavez is a guy that just destroys him.

STREET CLEANER
03-22-2010, 03:15 PM
Chavez at that weight was almost unbeatable. Chavez would had broken him down as he did to countles of others

Wukillabeez78
03-23-2010, 04:42 AM
Contrary to what another poster said Chavez was not fast (he didn't have good footspeed and didn't possess fast hands). He was a great tactician though and was still adept at cutting off the ring when facing faster fighters (pretty much all of the elite fighters he fought were faster than him).

This fight would be pretty entertaining. Manny has a definite edge as far as foot and handspeed. I'd say their power would be even. Chavez has a better chin than Manny. As far as intangibles and ring intelligence I'd say Chavez has a big edge. Manny will do things like take the other guys best shot just to see what he has (like he did against Cotto). If he did this against Chavez he'd be in serious trouble. Chavez was just a better thinker in the ring than Manny though. Manny is always going to bring the fight to you and try to knock you out. Chavez was a great counter puncher so Manny's style is tailor made for him. I don't think Manny could KO Chavez even if he hit him with good shots and I think Chavez would eventually wear Manny down and finish him.

JourneymanUK
03-23-2010, 05:33 AM
Another fantasy match. I'd say Chavez wins every round. Manny cannot win any fantasy match. That's proven. Next post.

CarlosG815
03-23-2010, 10:58 AM
Another fantasy match. I'd say Chavez wins every round. Manny cannot win any fantasy match. That's proven. Next post.

Because he really isn't that great.

You say that with disdain and I'm curious as to why.

CarlosG815
03-23-2010, 11:09 AM
Contrary to what another poster said Chavez was not fast (he didn't have good footspeed and didn't possess fast hands). He was a great tactician though and was still adept at cutting off the ring when facing faster fighters (pretty much all of the elite fighters he fought were faster than him).

This fight would be pretty entertaining. Manny has a definite edge as far as foot and handspeed. I'd say their power would be even. Chavez has a better chin than Manny. As far as intangibles and ring intelligence I'd say Chavez has a big edge. Manny will do things like take the other guys best shot just to see what he has (like he did against Cotto). If he did this against Chavez he'd be in serious trouble. Chavez was just a better thinker in the ring than Manny though. Manny is always going to bring the fight to you and try to knock you out. Chavez was a great counter puncher so Manny's style is tailor made for him. I don't think Manny could KO Chavez even if he hit him with good shots and I think Chavez would eventually wear Manny down and finish him.

Meldrick Taylor was incredibly fast and Chavez, while not as fast, was able to keep up with him just fine.

Because Manny hops up and down that gives him an edge in footwork? I'm trying to understand what you mean because I've never seen Manny as a fighter with footwork.

And at 135 I don't think Manny matches Chavez in power.

Don't forget, Manny got beat by Morales and schooled by JMM who neither were as good as Chavez.

And tbh since those guys he hasn't fought anybody. And no over rated Cotto and Hatton don't count as top contenders IMO. We won't know what Manny is capable of until he fights some real contenders, which we all know Arum isn't ready to do at this point - Manny is too valuable to him. As long as 800k people are willing to buy a ppv and attend a live arena to see him beat up bums like Joshua Clottey, he'll keep doing that. Once Manny is shot and he has other big stars, he'll throw Manny into a big fight and once he's KO'd he'll step over Manny's KO'd body to the winner, recruit him, and Manny will be old news and probably not fight anymore. He's a guy that once he loses a couple big fights, his draw power is gone.

baya
03-23-2010, 12:50 PM
chavez gets beaten badly at any weight by pac.

Wukillabeez78
03-23-2010, 02:27 PM
Meldrick Taylor was incredibly fast and Chavez, while not as fast, was able to keep up with him just fine.

Because Manny hops up and down that gives him an edge in footwork? I'm trying to understand what you mean because I've never seen Manny as a fighter with footwork.

And at 135 I don't think Manny matches Chavez in power.

Don't forget, Manny got beat by Morales and schooled by JMM who neither were as good as Chavez.

And tbh since those guys he hasn't fought anybody. And no over rated Cotto and Hatton don't count as top contenders IMO. We won't know what Manny is capable of until he fights some real contenders, which we all know Arum isn't ready to do at this point - Manny is too valuable to him. As long as 800k people are willing to buy a ppv and attend a live arena to see him beat up bums like Joshua Clottey, he'll keep doing that. Once Manny is shot and he has other big stars, he'll throw Manny into a big fight and once he's KO'd he'll step over Manny's KO'd body to the winner, recruit him, and Manny will be old news and probably not fight anymore. He's a guy that once he loses a couple big fights, his draw power is gone.

Meldrick was incredibly fast and could have been a masterful boxer had he chosen to be but he was from Philly and was a fighter at his core. He was kind of like Shane Mosley in that regard. Both have the ability to box but have a lot of pride and will try to bang if you hit them. Meldrick had too much heart in that fight vs Chavez and lost because of it. He could have won a decision with his superior boxing ability but was still firing back at Chavez right before he got stopped.

Don't know what you're talking about in regards to Manny hopping up and down. He doesn't have great footwork compared to great movers like Pernell Whitaker or Floyd Mayweather but he is still very quick on his feet (much quicker than Chavez) and is very good at staying in punching range, getting in and getting back out after throwing his punches and coming in at angles to set up his punches that so many of his opponents don't see him throw.

I think Manny showed good power at 135 but I wouldn't argue with anybody who would rate Chavez's as being superior. Neither one really had consistent, one punch power. Both usually rely or had to rely on putting together more than one punch in a short sequence or over the course of a fight to achieve a KO.

Manny does still have a lot to prove, I agree. What he's done has been very exciting but I'd pick both Mayweather and Mosley to beat him if he fights either one in the future. I also feel Timothy Bradley and Devon Alexander would give Manny major problems and could defeat him.

CarlosG815
03-23-2010, 02:54 PM
Don't know what you're talking about in regards to Manny hopping up and down.

Watch any of his fights. He's a well known hopper. Shawn Porter is a guy who you can tell tries to emulate Manny and one of the bad habits he's picked up is excessive hopping, and I think he gets that from sparring and training around Manny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5cxoI9vmDM

fast forward to around 1 minute when he gets on the mitts. He is a nonstop hopper. Watch film on Oscar, JMM, Barrera, etc. none of which were hoppers. I think this makes Manny somewhat predictable and when he fought Marquez he capitalized on it, catching Manny on the downward end of his hop and sent him off balance and had he followed up with a combo would have knocked him down.

#1Assassin
03-23-2010, 02:59 PM
chavez was the far greater fighter but pac would beat him do to their styles, pac does great against ppl who come right at him.

them_apples
03-23-2010, 03:31 PM
Chavez at that weight was almost unbeatable. Chavez would had broken him down as he did to countles of others

at 135 it would be a war. Chavez' straight right would be getting Pacquiao all night, Pacquiaos left hand would be tagging Chavez all night as well.

On the ATG list though, Chavez had a better run than Manny at 135 clearly. A win for Chavez wouldn't be out of the question either, anything above that though Pacquiao hit's to hard and would probably stop Chavez badly since he had lack luster defense. (although his chin was superb, you just don't do that with a guy like Pacquiao).

At 135 for Pacquiao, to me he just looked like the 130 lb fighter he was, only cutting less weight. He had tons of speed and stamina, but his power hadn't adjusted as well (even though he did score a KO). I'm going to give the fight to Pacquiao based on his speed, he'd land more than Chavez and Chavez might look like a fish out of water at times. I don't see a stoppage though. 60/40 in Pacquiaos favor.

them_apples
03-23-2010, 03:36 PM
Meldrick Taylor was incredibly fast and Chavez, while not as fast, was able to keep up with him just fine.

Because Manny hops up and down that gives him an edge in footwork? I'm trying to understand what you mean because I've never seen Manny as a fighter with footwork.

And at 135 I don't think Manny matches Chavez in power.

Don't forget, Manny got beat by Morales and schooled by JMM who neither were as good as Chavez.

And tbh since those guys he hasn't fought anybody. And no over rated Cotto and Hatton don't count as top contenders IMO. We won't know what Manny is capable of until he fights some real contenders, which we all know Arum isn't ready to do at this point - Manny is too valuable to him. As long as 800k people are willing to buy a ppv and attend a live arena to see him beat up bums like Joshua Clottey, he'll keep doing that. Once Manny is shot and he has other big stars, he'll throw Manny into a big fight and once he's KO'd he'll step over Manny's KO'd body to the winner, recruit him, and Manny will be old news and probably not fight anymore. He's a guy that once he loses a couple big fights, his draw power is gone.


Pacquiao was green when he lost to Morales, and IMO Morales was just straight up better than Chavez p4p. Pacquiao still looked like a child when he fought Morales.

I agree at 135, I think Pacquiao had a lull in his power and Chavez get's the edge here.

In terms of speed, yea Meldrick Taylor can flurry great, but Pacquiaos speed is a whole different kind of speed, he leaps in and out and hits you with power punches from weird angles. That was a pretty bleak out outlook you have when comparing speed.

If I recall, Meldrick Taylor was taxing Chavez' ass all night, that fight is usually considered a travesty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNnARIv_-88

He barely handled Taylors speed. Against Pernell it was even worse, Whitaker wasn't even as fast as Taylor but his southpaw Stance fked with Chavez.

-Rab
03-23-2010, 03:38 PM
That fight would've been incredible.

CarlosG815
03-23-2010, 06:29 PM
Pacquiao was green when he lost to Morales, and IMO Morales was just straight up better than Chavez p4p. Pacquiao still looked like a child when he fought Morales.

I agree at 135, I think Pacquiao had a lull in his power and Chavez get's the edge here.

In terms of speed, yea Meldrick Taylor can flurry great, but Pacquiaos speed is a whole different kind of speed, he leaps in and out and hits you with power punches from weird angles. That was a pretty bleak out outlook you have when comparing speed.

If I recall, Meldrick Taylor was taxing Chavez' ass all night, that fight is usually considered a travesty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNnARIv_-88

He barely handled Taylors speed. Against Pernell it was even worse, Whitaker wasn't even as fast as Taylor but his southpaw Stance fked with Chavez.

I will agree that Meldrick losing was a tragedy. He's one of my favorite fighters and I hate the fact that he lost that fight when he should have won. All I'm saying is that Taylor was insanely fast and Chavez held his own and came out with a win.

Don't give me the Pac was green argument. I'm tired of hearing it, take that **** to NSB where 30,000 Pinoy's will agree with you. He's fought weaker opposition for the past 4 years. Washed up Morales and Barrera don't count. He lost to JMM and beat Cotto, Diaz and Hatton, all of which, while very popular, are B fighters at best, with Diaz and Hatton being low B fighters.

When he fights the best and wins (uncontroversially) we can start comparing him to an ATG like Chavez. Beating up Josh Clottey didn't convince me that he's any better than he was when JMM schooled him.

Wukillabeez78
03-23-2010, 06:33 PM
Watch any of his fights. He's a well known hopper. Shawn Porter is a guy who you can tell tries to emulate Manny and one of the bad habits he's picked up is excessive hopping, and I think he gets that from sparring and training around Manny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5cxoI9vmDM

fast forward to around 1 minute when he gets on the mitts. He is a nonstop hopper. Watch film on Oscar, JMM, Barrera, etc. none of which were hoppers. I think this makes Manny somewhat predictable and when he fought Marquez he capitalized on it, catching Manny on the downward end of his hop and sent him off balance and had he followed up with a combo would have knocked him down.

Dude, I'm not sure if you've ever boxed but the "hopping" you're referring to is Pacquiao bouncing on his toes like many boxers do. De La Hoya did it against Vargas and countless other boxers also do it to get into rhythm. Not everyone does it because not everyone has that style. You typically only see fighters who constantly move in and out employ this technique. You move much quicker bouncing on your toes than you do flat-footed. Jumping rope is not only good for building stamina but is also great for people who stay on their toes for most of a fight like Pacquiao does.

Wukillabeez78
03-23-2010, 06:41 PM
Nice video but it only illustrates him bouncing on his toes, not "hopping". Pacquiao isn't even the first fighter I tend to think about who bounces on their toes like this. Ali did this all the time and Bruce Lee also bounced on his toes. Pacquiao has good footwork (not great, like I said Pernell Whitaker, Mayweather and boxers like that come to mind when you think great footwork) and it is definitely superior to Chavez who was pretty much a flat footed plodder that primarily relied on his counterpunching to get the job done.

I still think Chavez would win at 135 lbs though.

CarlosG815
03-23-2010, 06:42 PM
Dude, I'm not sure if you've ever boxed but the "hopping" you're referring to is Pacquiao bouncing on his toes like many boxers do. De La Hoya did it against Vargas and countless other boxers also do it to get into rhythm. Not everyone does it because not everyone has that style. You typically only see fighters who constantly move in and out employ this technique. You move much quicker bouncing on your toes than you do flat-footed. Jumping rope is not only good for building stamina but is also great for people who stay on their toes for most of a fight like Pacquiao does.

I know what it is and I have boxed.

Which De La Hoya vs Vargas fight did you watch? It wasn't the same one I saw, maybe you're thinking of another fight with two totally different people in it.

I like what Teddy Atlas said about it. "It's real cute in the amateurs, but when you step into the professional ranks you need to cut it down, or you're gonna get timed, and a good fighter will pick up on it and you're going to get tagged."

Manny is good enough to get away with it but not as many fighters hop like you're trying to make it sound.

Pacquiao and Hatton are the only guys that come to mind at the moment.

Wukillabeez78
03-23-2010, 06:49 PM
I know what it is and I have boxed.

Which De La Hoya vs Vargas fight did you watch? It wasn't the same one I saw, maybe you're thinking of another fight with two totally different people in it.

I like what Teddy Atlas said about it. "It's real cute in the amateurs, but when you step into the professional ranks you need to cut it down, or you're gonna get timed, and a good fighter will pick up on it and you're going to get tagged."

Manny is good enough to get away with it but not as many fighters hop like you're trying to make it sound.

Pacquiao and Hatton are the only guys that come to mind at the moment.

Maybe you should go back and not only watch De La Hoya/Vargas but also some of De La Hoya's other fights. He bounced on his toes all the time!!! Teddy Atlas never trained a fighter who employed that style of fighting. Michael Moorer was a slow, plodding fighter and the young Tyson he trained was more of a side to side bob and weave fighter who only came forward instead of moving in and out. MANY fighters employ this same technique. Pacquiao isn't the first to fight this way and isn't the best or most well-known fighter to utilize it. I (and I'm sure others as well) could name plenty of fighters who bounce on their toes like Manny but I've already named two of the most recognizable names, ALI and BRUCE LEE.

CarlosG815
03-23-2010, 06:51 PM
Maybe you should go back and not only watch De La Hoya/Vargas but also some of De La Hoya's other fights. He bounced on his toes all the time!!! Teddy Atlas never trained a fighter who employed that style of fighting. Michael Moorer was a slow, plodding fighter and the young Tyson he trained was more of a side to side bob and weave fighter who only came forward instead of moving in and out. MANY fighters employ this same technique. Pacquiao isn't the first to fight this way and isn't the best or most well-known fighter to utilize it. I (and I'm sure others as well) could name plenty of fighters who bounce on their toes like Manny but I've already named two of the most recognizable names, ALI and BRUCE LEE.

Show me film with De La Hoya hopping vs Vargas.

I have 6 links on youtube showing the entire fight and it's not there.

Again, are you sure you're not thinking of another fight with 2 other people in it?

F l i c k e r
03-23-2010, 07:06 PM
Chavez by mutilation.

Chavez is fast and Manny takes a lot of punches from everybody he faces. Chavez has too much power for Manny to eat his punches and stick around.

Manny just isn't good enough to go toe to toe with certain ATG's and Chavez is a guy that just destroys him.

I agree with this but to throw in my own 2cents.

Manny Pacquiao wasn't very durable(for lack of a better term) at anything below 140. Just go look at his streak of beating the mexican boxers. They all gave him hell, beat his face up, even if they did lose.

In my opinion, a guy who can match speed with Manny and get his timing down(which is pretty simple to do) he hops alot then pauses before going on the offensive, easy to time if you got the speed to match him. Chavez would destroy Manny in a insta-classic. It would be a war but Manny would go down for the count.

Wukillabeez78
03-23-2010, 07:09 PM
Show me film with De La Hoya hopping vs Vargas.

I have 6 links on youtube showing the entire fight and it's not there.

Again, are you sure you're not thinking of another fight with 2 other people in it?

Show me a fight where Pacquiao bounces excessively or "hops" as you put it for the whole fight. Pacquiao doesn't bounce on his toes for an entire fight and neither do other fighters. Boxers get up on their toes right before they move in to punch or feint their opponent or whenever else they are trying to move quickly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gFMqaqFnqc&feature=related
You can see both De La Hoya and Vargas bouncing on their toes in this clip as they feint and before they punch and also just to get into rhythm. Pacquiao might stay on his toes more than other fighters you're used to watching because he's very active with a lot of stamina and is constantly going in and out pressing the action. The more you weigh the less you're on your toes.

Wukillabeez78
03-23-2010, 07:10 PM
And here's a Time magazine interview where De La Hoya talks about moving around the ring on his toes.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1864438,00.html

Wukillabeez78
03-23-2010, 07:15 PM
Here's a link of Pacquiao vs Clottey. Pacquiao isn't always bouncing on his toes, he's flat-footed at times and is up on his toes when he wants to move quickly. Clottey does the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j42MpSS9-do&feature=related

CarlosG815
03-23-2010, 07:22 PM
Show me a fight where Pacquiao bounces excessively or "hops" as you put it for the whole fight. Pacquiao doesn't bounce on his toes for an entire fight and neither do other fighters. Boxers get up on their toes right before they move in to punch or feint their opponent or whenever else they are trying to move quickly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gFMqaqFnqc&feature=related
You can see both De La Hoya and Vargas bouncing on their toes in this clip as they feint and before they punch and also just to get into rhythm. Pacquiao might stay on his toes more than other fighters you're used to watching because he's very active with a lot of stamina and is constantly going in and out pressing the action. The more you weigh the less you're on your toes.

Bro, just stop. You don't have to argue this anymore. That clip you showed proves my point that DLH doesn't hop. A lot of fighters when they're coming out of a clinch will hop backwards. The fact is before Manny throws he hops around more than most fighters leaving him vulnerable to a skilled opponent to time.

Now we need to put him in with somebody good so we can see how good he really is.

Don't get me wrong I love Pac, he's one of my favorite fighters, but I wanna see him beat some top contenders!

Wukillabeez78
03-23-2010, 07:41 PM
Bro, just stop. You don't have to argue this anymore. That clip you showed proves my point that DLH doesn't hop. A lot of fighters when they're coming out of a clinch will hop backwards. The fact is before Manny throws he hops around more than most fighters leaving him vulnerable to a skilled opponent to time.

Now we need to put him in with somebody good so we can see how good he really is.

Don't get me wrong I love Pac, he's one of my favorite fighters, but I wanna see him beat some top contenders!

We'll just have to agree to disagree because I don't see Pacquiao engaging in any "hopping" as you put it. I see a very active fighter who throws a lot of punches (about 100 per round against Clottey which is SUPER active) who is on his toes moving in and out, not "hopping". Pacquiao has already fought plenty of not good but GREAT fighters who weren't able to exploit this so called "vulnerability".

Not sure how many of Pacquiao's fights you've seen but you're in the minority if you haven't already seen how good he is. There are only a handful of fighters (whoever wins Mayweather vs Mosley, Paul Williams, maybe Berto along with Alexander/Bradley if they move up) out there that are even worth his time at this point.

I don't love Pac nor do I love any other current fighter. I like boxing itself because it's a sport I have in the past and still currently participate in. I understand all the different styles, techniques and subtleness of the sport and also enjoy seeing competitive fights. Pacquiao has already fought and beat top contenders (both in the past and recently unlike other fighters). I'm more interested in seeing Mayweather fight some top contenders and May 1st is a step in the right direction for him.

them_apples
03-23-2010, 09:18 PM
I agree with this but to throw in my own 2cents.

Manny Pacquiao wasn't very durable(for lack of a better term) at anything below 140. Just go look at his streak of beating the mexican boxers. They all gave him hell, beat his face up, even if they did lose.

In my opinion, a guy who can match speed with Manny and get his timing down(which is pretty simple to do) he hops alot then pauses before going on the offensive, easy to time if you got the speed to match him. Chavez would destroy Manny in a insta-classic. It would be a war but Manny would go down for the count.

honestly this is a deluded statement. How is Pacquiao not durable? he took Morales best shots for 12 rounds. On top of that, Chavez isn't half as quick as Pacquiao. Enough of that "matching speed" BS.

them_apples
03-23-2010, 09:22 PM
We'll just have to agree to disagree because I don't see Pacquiao engaging in any "hopping" as you put it. I see a very active fighter who throws a lot of punches (about 100 per round against Clottey which is SUPER active) who is on his toes moving in and out, not "hopping". Pacquiao has already fought plenty of not good but GREAT fighters who weren't able to exploit this so called "vulnerability".

Not sure how many of Pacquiao's fights you've seen but you're in the minority if you haven't already seen how good he is. There are only a handful of fighters (whoever wins Mayweather vs Mosley, Paul Williams, maybe Berto along with Alexander/Bradley if they move up) out there that are even worth his time at this point.

I don't love Pac nor do I love any other current fighter. I like boxing itself because it's a sport I have in the past and still currently participate in. I understand all the different styles, techniques and subtleness of the sport and also enjoy seeing competitive fights. Pacquiao has already fought and beat top contenders (both in the past and recently unlike other fighters). I'm more interested in seeing Mayweather fight some top contenders and May 1st is a step in the right direction for him.

good post. Not deluded. people are aways living in denial with Pacquiao.

people are acting like Pacquiaos easy to hit, well, wake up and smell the coffee Chavez would be getting hit twice as much. Even David Diaz at least turtled to block punches, Chavez would have ate them all night.

them_apples
03-23-2010, 09:25 PM
I will agree that Meldrick losing was a tragedy. He's one of my favorite fighters and I hate the fact that he lost that fight when he should have won. All I'm saying is that Taylor was insanely fast and Chavez held his own and came out with a win.

Don't give me the Pac was green argument. I'm tired of hearing it, take that **** to NSB where 30,000 Pinoy's will agree with you. He's fought weaker opposition for the past 4 years. Washed up Morales and Barrera don't count. He lost to JMM and beat Cotto, Diaz and Hatton, all of which, while very popular, are B fighters at best, with Diaz and Hatton being low B fighters.

When he fights the best and wins (uncontroversially) we can start comparing him to an ATG like Chavez. Beating up Josh Clottey didn't convince me that he's any better than he was when JMM schooled him.

At what point was a 29 year old Barrera washed up? You seem to forget that Pacquiao hammered these guys a total of 4 times. You only like to remember the one decision loss he took from Morales because you hate Pacquiao.

CarlosG815
03-23-2010, 10:22 PM
At what point was a 29 year old Barrera washed up? You seem to forget that Pacquiao hammered these guys a total of 4 times. You only like to remember the one decision loss he took from Morales because you hate Pacquiao.

Hate Pac? You have no idea what you're talking about and now your nonsense has gone from lowly opinion to pure assumption.

Age has little to do with the prime of a boxers career. Barrera had been through hell and back and fought some 60-some professional fights. It's obvious he wasn't the same fighter he was in the early 2000's. He was licked before 30 and nothing since then has shown that he's a serious contender or was he near the prime of his career at 29.

But of course you would think that because a guy is only 30 he must still be in the prime of his career, because you lack that common knowledge. Most boxing fans would agree he was already on the downward slide, but you seem to think he was prime because you love Pac so much.

They were still good fighters, but they weren't fighters in the prime of their career, and I don't care who you are, if you're not at your best, you're not beating Pac. However, I do feel that Barrera was a better fighter than Pac in the prime of his career, and I feel the same about Morales.

I'm a bigger Pac fan than I am of those guys, but that's just what I believe, love aside.

geribeetus
03-23-2010, 11:29 PM
Age has little to do with the prime of a boxers career.

anyone else laughing at this sentence?

back on topic though. i think pac's best shot is beating jcc on the cards. he throws more than chavez did, but chavez was more accurate. activity catches eyes though. both guys need to stay off the ropes. if chavez is the first to come forward in an exchange i think he wins it. he moves his head better than pac does getting inside. pac's footspeed would catch chavez off guard. when he leaps in he'd get the better of chavez. i see this looking a little like taylor-chavez(except mostly held in the center of the ring) until about the 10th. pac would finally have enough in the 10th. the ref would have to step in i think because pac wouldn't stay down. he'd be losing on the cards after multiple knockdowns in the last round, but would've won a round or two more up to that point.

them_apples
03-23-2010, 11:46 PM
Hate Pac? You have no idea what you're talking about and now your nonsense has gone from lowly opinion to pure assumption.

Age has little to do with the prime of a boxers career. Barrera had been through hell and back and fought some 60-some professional fights. It's obvious he wasn't the same fighter he was in the early 2000's. He was licked before 30 and nothing since then has shown that he's a serious contender or was he near the prime of his career at 29.

But of course you would think that because a guy is only 30 he must still be in the prime of his career, because you lack that common knowledge. Most boxing fans would agree he was already on the downward slide, but you seem to think he was prime because you love Pac so much.

They were still good fighters, but they weren't fighters in the prime of their career, and I don't care who you are, if you're not at your best, you're not beating Pac. However, I do feel that Barrera was a better fighter than Pac in the prime of his career, and I feel the same about Morales.

I'm a bigger Pac fan than I am of those guys, but that's just what I believe, love aside.


Barrera was 29 and pretty cloe to his prime. Morales, he was 29? and he was considered on a downward slide. You must not have been following boxing. To me it's just excuses to write Pacquiao off. The man get's credit for nothing from some people. He goes in as the underdog, taxes ass then they write him off like it was a fluke because he's wreckless or something.

Telepath
03-24-2010, 02:25 AM
Chavez's speed at 135 is very underrated, because most people remember him from 140 to 147.

Chavez's defense is also extremely underrated, for the same reason. As he grew older, a lot of the subtleties were gone.

Chavez in his prime wasn't just a guy who came at you senselessly and tried to trade blows. Ever watched his fight with Edwin Rosario? He just managed to keep up the pressure non-stop, while actually not taking much in return. And, when he did get tagged, he had what was probably the best chin pound for pound of all time in the sport, which was even explained medically, with CAT-scans showing him to have an abnormally thick skull bone.

At 135, Chavez would be too much for Pacquiao. He's the better infighter by far. His power is at least even, probably quite a bit more, and above all he uses it far more efficiently. Surely he was not as fast as Manny is, but he wasn't slow either - at least not at those weights.

I say Julio takes whatever Pac can throw at him, with most of it missing, and knocks him out late.

cupuzz
03-24-2010, 02:57 AM
manny losed againts chavez?

BennyST
03-24-2010, 04:04 AM
anyone else laughing at this sentence?


It actually makes perfect sense. How else do you explain the careers of Bernard Hopkins, Wilfredo Benitez, Archie Moore and Erik Morales?

Think about their ages and at what times they were peak. The majority of fighters start slowing by thirty and are done by thirty five.

CarlosG815
03-24-2010, 10:42 AM
It actually makes perfect sense. How else do you explain the careers of Bernard Hopkins, Wilfredo Benitez, Archie Moore and Erik Morales?

Think about their ages and at what times they were peak. The majority of fighters start slowing by thirty and are done by thirty five.

That's too much for the dmx fanboy to understand.

Age is a delicate thing in boxing. I think it has more to do with what happens in your life outside of the ring, and how many times you've been in and the blows you've taken.

Look at Meldrick Taylor at 30 years old. Guy is punch drunk and brain dead, but I guess according to dmx up there he should be prime.

Tyson peaked at 20 and went downward from there on.

Manny Pacquiao is better at 31 than he was in his early to mid 20's.

Hopkins and Mosley are arguably still near the prime of their career and Hopkins is 45 and i believe Mosley is 39.

Wukillabeez78
03-24-2010, 01:09 PM
That's too much for the dmx fanboy to understand.

Age is a delicate thing in boxing. I think it has more to do with what happens in your life outside of the ring, and how many times you've been in and the blows you've taken.

Look at Meldrick Taylor at 30 years old. Guy is punch drunk and brain dead, but I guess according to dmx up there he should be prime.

Tyson peaked at 20 and went downward from there on.

Manny Pacquiao is better at 31 than he was in his early to mid 20's.

Hopkins and Mosley are arguably still near the prime of their career and Hopkins is 45 and i believe Mosley is 39.

I agree with everything you said other than the last part about Hopkins and Mosley. They are both definitely past prime but neither one is shot. They can still go out and have great performances and look impressive (they have the experience/knowledge and also stay in phenomenal shape) but they are definitely not in their physical primes anymore.

them_apples
03-24-2010, 02:39 PM
That's too much for the dmx fanboy to understand.

Age is a delicate thing in boxing. I think it has more to do with what happens in your life outside of the ring, and how many times you've been in and the blows you've taken.

Look at Meldrick Taylor at 30 years old. Guy is punch drunk and brain dead, but I guess according to dmx up there he should be prime.

Tyson peaked at 20 and went downward from there on.

Manny Pacquiao is better at 31 than he was in his early to mid 20's.

Hopkins and Mosley are arguably still near the prime of their career and Hopkins is 45 and i believe Mosley is 39.

I know age has little to do with prime..and I'm still saying Barrera wasn't "shot" or past it when he fought Pacquiao.

Morales was sliding, Barrera? no

sonnyboyx2
03-24-2010, 03:42 PM
Meldrick Taylor was as fast as Pacquiao and caused Chavez problems as did Pernell Whitaker... This would be a great fight, so i will go for a 12rd draw

CarlosG815
03-24-2010, 04:33 PM
I know age has little to do with prime..and I'm still saying Barrera wasn't "shot" or past it when he fought Pacquiao.

Morales was sliding, Barrera? no

The first fight, not so much, but the last meeting, Barrera was finished.

geribeetus
03-25-2010, 02:59 PM
That's too much for the dmx fanboy to understand.

Age is a delicate thing in boxing. I think it has more to do with what happens in your life outside of the ring, and how many times you've been in and the blows you've taken.

Look at Meldrick Taylor at 30 years old. Guy is punch drunk and brain dead, but I guess according to dmx up there he should be prime.

Tyson peaked at 20 and went downward from there on.

Manny Pacquiao is better at 31 than he was in his early to mid 20's.

Hopkins and Mosley are arguably still near the prime of their career and Hopkins is 45 and i believe Mosley is 39.

lol dmx fanboy? age does matter dumb ****. i don't recall saying age was the only thing that matters. learn to read stupid ******.

budfr
03-27-2010, 02:32 AM
chavez gets beaten badly at any weight by pac.

You are a retarded Puerto Rican. Typical retarded. Chavez was better than any Potorro.

CarlosG815
03-27-2010, 08:25 AM
lol dmx fanboy? age does matter dumb ****. i don't recall saying age was the only thing that matters. learn to read stupid ******.

Wow you got pissed. Please don't have X gon' give it to meh.

You said Barrera was 29, insinuating that he was still in the prime of his career, when obviously Barrera's boxing age was much older.

bojangles1987
03-27-2010, 10:19 AM
Pacquiao's speed would give him a major plus in this fight, and I think he was tough enough to take Chavez's punches and win the decision. I'm admittedly not that big on Chavez though.

I just think it is extremely hard to outbrawl Pacquiao, and Chavez despite his big chin would take too many punches for every punch he landed himself.