Do you think he's overrated and what are his chances of winning a world title?

very average fighter, he is not really a threat and doesnt do anything to great. i say he'll be a nice contender but not champ material

You mean because he is said to be world ranked but can't go five rounds without gassing out, wide open for uppercuts and body shots, likes to take his oppents to the corners and smother them to death ala Ruiz but with no steam on his punches after a couple rounds, beat by a smaller guy that moved up (alfonso) and out boxed by an unknown up comming fighter in Mora..

naw hes not over-rated...LOL

o.k his oposition.
He beat anthony bosante before the contender that's not bad.
He lost to alfonso
He had a life and death struggle with a bum called miguel espino but luckily came out on top
He then fought another fellow fighter called joey gilbert who was an lower than average fighter and luckily won a very close split decison, very contreversial.
He then had a life and death struggle with alfonso but luckily defeated him, infact if it was a 5 rounder he would of lost again because alfonso was ahead.
Then he lost to sergio mora in a quiet onesided fight (even though the rounds were close).
The guy is overatted and will never in his life become a champion, ishe smith and sergio have more of a chance.

The best he will ever be is a journeyman or a stepping stone for up and coming fighters use to move up in ranks because he was on tv and is well known to the public. Thats all he will ever be, Nothing more.

NONE of those guys on the contender will ever be champions

You mean because he is said to be world ranked but can't go five rounds without gassing out, wide open for uppercuts and body shots, likes to take his oppents to the corners and smother them to death ala Ruiz but with no steam on his punches after a couple rounds, beat by a smaller guy that moved up (alfonso) and out boxed by an unknown up comming fighter in Mora..

naw hes not over-rated...LOL
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Though Peter Manfredo Jr. wasnt the best boxer on the contender you gotta remember that all these fights were fought almost within a month or two, you dont get to study and train for one specific opponent, and the fights are only 5 rounds. I also think Mora, Ishe, and Gomez are better fighters, but Manfredo is still legit and young, and still got chance to make some noise.

What I can never understand is why guys like you , supposed boxing fans, would come on here and post something so derogatory about a fighter, something that you seem to be doing to not only down the guy but also to make fun of him at the same time? Why is that? Why do fans such as yourself do that? Thats pretty F**** up, you know what I mean? Maybe you should ask yourself why you, a guy that doesnt fight for a living, would find it funny to try and make fun of a guy that does on a public forum? As for Peter, what you don't realize os that 5 and 7 rounds at that pace is no way to tell the talents of a fighter. Its like a sprint compared to a marathon. All tactics and efforts are changed and a mans true skills arent able to come through. If Peter and Bonsante, for example, fought each other on the show it would likely be a 5 round war. When they fought 10 rounds last year on ESPN though Manfredo won EASILY. OUTBOXED him in a way that couldnt be done on this show.

Great post Iceman!!1 I can't believe the negativity of so called "boxing fans" these days. I mean, the list of fighters I've heard referred to as bums on this board range from everyone on the contender, to Nicolay Valuev, over Oscar De La Hoya AND Tito Trinidad, to Roy Jones jr. and Amir Khan??!
Opinions are like *******s, and you all seem to have one....

Nobody rates him high after his losses to Gomez and Mora, so no, he is not overrated. Time will tell if he can put his stuff together better.

Fredo is a cool cat. He is doing what most of us here on these boards only talk about doing. As for how good he is I agree with the iceman, its hard to tell in only 5-7 rounds. Imagine any fighter in the world against guys like Maygora, Pacman, Even Cory Sanders or the old Iron Mike for only 5-7 rounds. Fredo is a boxer, we'll see if he can regroup and get a real trainer. One thing he needs is to capture that same killer instinct that he showed against Alfonzo in their 2nd fight.

The last time I check the forums are here to dispute each others points of view, that means "opinions" with out them what fun would it be if everyone here jumped on all the fighters bandwagons and kissed arse in every post? This is boxing fellas, everytime two men step in the ring and on that canvass 98% of the time you are gonna have a winner and a looser. And yes you must respect the fact that they have the cojones to put it out on the line each and every time the get in there. But hey thats the profession they chose, and you gotta be ready for the reality checks.

Like:

1. If the Manfredo/Mora fight would have gone 10 rounds Manfredo would have probabbly tasted the canvass maybe even Koed.

2. And that had more to do with his gassing out and lack of stamina, then it did with Mora's power.

3. Manfredo didn't use his jab effectivly, and couldn't deal with Mora's jab.

4. Manfredo lost to Alfonso, who was obviously fighting at a smaller weight class, struggled with both Espino and Joey.

The question was is he overrated, well not anymore. But he was hyped up to be soemthing he is not. He has potential but his gotta work on alot of things before he becomes a real "contender".

this mother****er has the flattest nose ive ever seen for a whiteboy.goddamn he must have went up against some superior opposition his whole life.

NONE of those guys on the contender will ever be champions

I was gonna say that, so I give you props fo makin my life a tiny bitsy easya!

the thing is, your deductions are all made based on what you have seen on this show. And there is no way to really tell because NONE OF THESE guys were able to show their true skill level on here. I have boxed with several of these guys andthey are all better than what you see... 5 and 7 rounds is just not indicative of what they really have. And your idea that Manfredo would have been stopped had it gone 10 cuz he would have gassed out is not realistic because of it is scheduled for ten rounds then EVERYTHING about the fight changes. Every aspect changes.

The last time I check the forums are here to dispute each others points of view, that means "opinions" with out them what fun would it be if everyone here jumped on all the fighters bandwagons and kissed arse in every post? This is boxing fellas, everytime two men step in the ring and on that canvass 98% of the time you are gonna have a winner and a looser. And yes you must respect the fact that they have the cojones to put it out on the line each and every time the get in there. But hey thats the profession they chose, and you gotta be ready for the reality checks.

Like:

1. If the Manfredo/Mora fight would have gone 10 rounds Manfredo would have probabbly tasted the canvass maybe even Koed.

2. And that had more to do with his gassing out and lack of stamina, then it did with Mora's power.

3. Manfredo didn't use his jab effectivly, and couldn't deal with Mora's jab.

4. Manfredo lost to Alfonso, who was obviously fighting at a smaller weight class, struggled with both Espino and Joey.

The question was is he overrated, well not anymore. But he was hyped up to be soemthing he is not. He has potential but his gotta work on alot of things before he becomes a real "contender".

There's a big difference between calling boxers bums, chickens or worse, and analyzing their skills and whatever, in a fair and balanced way.

1. If the Mora/Manfredo fight was 10 rounds, they would have paced themselves for a 10 round fight. Which makes your argument invalid, and plain wrong. This should be obvious to anybody?
2. Your first point was invalid, therefore this does not apply.
3. Agreed
4. Moatly correct. From what I read, the Joey Gilbert fight was edited to look close. Jesse Brinkley said somewhere that Joey "got his ass handed to him".

I don't think anybody has a problem with fair critique and honest opinions, it's the childish name calling, personal insults and blatant hating of professional fighters, who have the balls to make a VERY HARD living.

the joey-peter fight was a close split decision.

PUNCHDRUNK, U are exactly right! The disrespect so called FANS have for boxers always amazes me

PUNCHDRUNK, U are exactly right! The disrespect so called FANS have for boxers always amazes me
I agree with you Iceman
By the way I would like to buy your book

how much it cost?

Hey, my man. E-mail me at ICEJOHNSCULLY@AOL.COM and I will give you all the updated info, etc.

THANKS

ICE

http://www.manfredojr.com/

There's a big difference between calling boxers bums, chickens or worse, and analyzing their skills and whatever, in a fair and balanced way.

1. If the Mora/Manfredo fight was 10 rounds, they would have paced themselves for a 10 round fight. Which makes your argument invalid, and plain wrong. This should be obvious to anybody?
2. Your first point was invalid, therefore this does not apply.
3. Agreed
4. Moatly correct. From what I read, the Joey Gilbert fight was edited to look close. Jesse Brinkley said somewhere that Joey "got his ass handed to him".

I don't think anybody has a problem with fair critique and honest opinions, it's the childish name calling, personal insults and blatant hating of professional fighters, who have the balls to make a VERY HARD living.

I didn't call any body a BUM, Chicken, or tomato can or have I engaed in childish name calling, personal insults and the works. I call them like I see them, maybe Manfredo will polish his stuff and have the goods, but so far not impressed.

As for the fight...he was gassed out, Mora wasn't he should have paced himself. He said it himself he kept trying to land bombs and didn't stick to his game plan that was using his JAB, seven or ten rounds he should not have been out on his feet the way he was in the finally seconds didn't Cortez help him stay standing and steer him towards his corner?


I can agree to disagree, but don't lump in the "haters" category.

I didn't call any body a BUM, Chicken, or tomato can or have I engaed in childish name calling, personal insults and the works. I call them like I see them, maybe Manfredo will polish his stuff and have the goods, but so far not impressed.

As for the fight...he was gassed out, Mora wasn't he should have paced himself. He said it himself he kept trying to land bombs and didn't stick to his game plan that was using his JAB, seven or ten rounds he should not have been out on his feet the way he was in the finally seconds didn't Cortez help him stay standing and steer him towards his corner?


I can agree to disagree, but don't lump in the "haters" category.

Oh, I'm not lumping you in with anybody. If you follow the thread from the beginning, you'll see that people were being less than fair to Manfredo, so Iceman and I adressed that. Then you replied to that (or so it seemed), that fighters should be able to take critisism (or something to that effect), which I took for a defense of people slagging fighters, so I replied to that etc.... follow me? I think your points were all acceptable, even if I disagree with some of it. I'm don't think he's a championship caliber fighter either, but that doesn't make him bad, you know?

Gottcha...he'd kick plenty of arse in the ring, just needs to work on a few things before he gets in there with the big guns. Think about Vargas and would he could have been if he hadn't been rushed into those BIG fights..

Manfredo was my favorite simply because he seems down to earth, easy going and genuinely nice guy. I've seen him vs Bonsante in that 10 rounder and he does have skills not to mention it's still early in his career and has plenty of time for improvement. I don't think anybody is overating him, and people need to stop using that word. That, along with "Exposed" or "One dimensional", it's all overused.

Manfredo looked good...just seems like he has trouble with volume punchers...or at least thats the way it looked from the edited Contender fights....The Contender made me a big fan of Gomez though, even though he looks like he is lacking is some skill areas.

o.k his oposition.
He beat anthony bosante before the contender that's not bad.
He lost to alfonso
He had a life and death struggle with a bum called miguel espino but luckily came out on top
He then fought another fellow fighter called joey gilbert who was an lower than average fighter and luckily won a very close split decison, very contreversial.
He then had a life and death struggle with alfonso but luckily defeated him, infact if it was a 5 rounder he would of lost again because alfonso was ahead.
Then he lost to sergio mora in a quiet onesided fight (even though the rounds were close).
The guy is overatted and will never in his life become a champion, ishe smith and sergio have more of a chance.


What's bolded right there shows you really don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. How can you call an edited fight? He was up on all the judges score cards: ~ Time: 2:34 | 49-47 | 49-46 | 49-46 ~ Tell me, how is THAT controversial? He was up by 2 rounds on two out of three cards, and one on the other. That, sir, is NOT a controversial decision. The scores in the second fight against Alfonso: 68-65 | 67-66 | 69-64 He's fought several 10-12 round fights, and up until his loss to Alfonso, he was undefeated in them. Yeah, it wasn't great opposition, but he still beat them all.

The Mora fight he punched himself out way too fast. That's lack of conditioning, and a bad trainer. If he dumps his dad he's got a much better shot of being a champion than if he doesn't.

He's not a bad fighter, but he isn't great, either. He has a lot of skill, but he also needs a lot of improvement if he wants to compete at the top levels of the sport. The ONLY way he can make that sort of jump, is if he gets himself a new trainer.

m00ks: The Bonsante fight was 12 rounds, he won in a near whitewash. ~ 120-109 | 118-109 | 120-107~ Those were the scores. According to boxrec, it was 12. It was a championship fight, too. Well, it was for an NA belt..


Like:

1. If the Manfredo/Mora fight would have gone 10 rounds Manfredo would have probabbly tasted the canvass maybe even Koed.

2. And that had more to do with his gassing out and lack of stamina, then it did with Mora's power.

3. Manfredo didn't use his jab effectivly, and couldn't deal with Mora's jab.

4. Manfredo lost to Alfonso, who was obviously fighting at a smaller weight class, struggled with both Espino and Joey.

The question was is he overrated, well not anymore. But he was hyped up to be soemthing he is not. He has potential but his gotta work on alot of things before he becomes a real "contender".


Yeah, I agree with 3, but not 4, entirely. The second Gomez fight, and the Joey fight weren't close at all, as I posted above. This is from the judges perspective, at least, which isn't to always be agreed with, but it's really all we have to go on except an edited fight.

1 and 2 are basing it on the following, I think: that Manfredo would have fought the same way in a 10 rounder as he would have for this fight, which is just wrong. It would have been much different, and we'd have seen a different, closer fight, I think. I don't think Mora really hurt him, either. At the end, he was just dead tired, that's why he almost went down, not because of Mora's power, I don't think.

I know this has been responded to, but, this is a place for opinions, as you stated in the part I didn't quote, and I'm simply giving mine.

BM

yeah I remeber that fight. Bonsante never changed, was still dirty as **** specially in the late rounds when he was gassed by the 8-9. That fight was in Peter's hometown too.

If bum is out may I use "palooka"? And if it is impossible to see his skills in a rush job 7 rounds, can I point ouit what it was about Mora and Manfredo that implies bum-ness? How about the fact that the ridiculosly wide flat footed stances do not lend themselves to moving well, punching hard, avoiding punches or any other thing a boxer may care to do. The only punches that were not pushed were slaps. Neither has a clue how to fight inside and I failed to notice any outside wizardry. That wasn't boxing; it was a fair version of clowns fighting or the 3 stooges.

I said he wasn't anything before The Contender even started. Damn, first week his ass proved me right. I mean damn, I thought he'd beat that guy Gomez. Pissed me off that they let his ***** ass back on the show. Let someone new on, someone who hadn't lost a few weeks prior. He did nothing to earn the right to come back, someone just got sick and he caught a bull**** break.

That show had its problems for sure. Ishe should've got to fight that idiot Jessie Brinkley so he could've knocked him out. That whole East vs. West thing was just gay. What the hell was that about? This wasn't mid-90s rap battles, I mean damn.

I said he wasn't anything before The Contender even started. Damn, first week his ass proved me right. I mean damn, I thought he'd beat that guy Gomez. Pissed me off that they let his ***** ass back on the show. Let someone new on, someone who hadn't lost a few weeks prior. He did nothing to earn the right to come back, someone just got sick and he caught a bull**** break.

That show had its problems for sure. Ishe should've got to fight that idiot Jessie Brinkley so he could've knocked him out. That whole East vs. West thing was just gay. What the hell was that about? This wasn't mid-90s rap battles, I mean damn.

It's reality TV. There has to be some sort of "conflict" for casual viewers to tune into the show. That's why challenges existed, and the opposing teams. It created conflict.

Definately! I think shows like the contender gos to show that there are many other boxers out there that could be champs if they were given a shot. It seems like the champions and well know fighters are feed a lot of chump oppenents that they are almost guranteed in beating because everyone likes to follow the drama of watching an undefeated fighter stay undefeated. I think that most of the people on the P4P list wouldn't even be there if there managers weren't able to dish them a constant supply of suckas to whoop on. People like to say what is wrong with boxing...What's wrong with boxing is the best fighters don't fight each other anymore, and when they do we all want to call it the fight of the year, fight of the century...bullsh*t, we could see fights like that every weekend if theses fighters would start defending their titles instead of protecting them like some damn easter eggs...

NONE of those guys on the contender will ever be champions

I'll bet £100 right now that at least one will (and I think at least 2 will for the record).