View Full Version : was a prime mike tyson predictable


YoungJab
03-20-2010, 10:46 AM
dundee said he was

was he??

Ziggy Stardust
03-20-2010, 10:51 AM
dundee said he was

was he??

Yes, but predicting what he would do and being able to nullify it were two different things.

Poet

CarlosG815
03-20-2010, 10:56 AM
Ask the first 37 guys he fought :haha:

The_Demon
03-20-2010, 10:59 AM
yes he was but like poet said stopping in his tracks him was a completely different matter
prime tyson does seem to get over-rated often though

lyrical
03-20-2010, 11:02 AM
it was predictable he was going to win by KO

Ziggy Stardust
03-20-2010, 11:03 AM
yes he was but like poet said stopping in his tracks him was a completely different matter
prime tyson does seem to get over-rated often though

Not as much as he used to. He still has some rabid true-believers but with a few exceptions they've been relatively quiet the past couple of years. At the other extreme there are fair few who think he was a complete bum and a fraud and those assesments are just as incorrect as the ones making Mike out to be the GOAT.

Poet

CarlosG815
03-20-2010, 11:15 AM
it was predictable he was going to win by KO

:haha::haha: Green K to you, took the words out of my mouth.

General Zod
03-20-2010, 11:34 AM
dundee said he was

was he??
his form of bobbing and weaving was more predictable than Frazier's, I remember Tucker timing him with the uppercut as he weaved twice. It really depends on what version of Tyson you are talking about as well

Ziggy Stardust
03-20-2010, 11:41 AM
his form of bobbing and weaving was more predictable than Frazier's, I remember Tucker timing him with the uppercut as he weaved twice. It really depends on what version of Tyson you are talking about as well

He also threw his combinations in a pre-set pattern with the sequences being called out in numbers by Kevin Rooney. It isn't too difficult to figure out what the sequences are; doing something about them is the hard part.

Poet

1SILVA
03-20-2010, 11:44 AM
Not as much as he used to. He still has some rabid true-believers but with a few exceptions they've been relatively quiet the past couple of years. At the other extreme there are fair few who think he was a complete bum and a fraud and those assesments are just as incorrect as the ones making Mike out to be the GOAT.

Poet

As always Poet, your analysis of Tyson is on point. He was a great fighter who peaked early, like many fighters with a similar style and lifestyle.

YoungJab
03-20-2010, 11:51 AM
He also threw his combinations in a pre-set pattern with the sequences being called out in numbers by Kevin Rooney. It isn't too difficult to figure out what the sequences are; doing something about them is the hard part.

Poet

few examples for the pre set pattern

what do u mean about the 2nd part?

General Zod
03-20-2010, 11:52 AM
He also threw his combinations in a pre-set pattern with the sequences being called out in numbers by Kevin Rooney. It isn't too difficult to figure out what the sequences are; doing something about them is the hard part.

Poet
good post, I completely agree

Ziggy Stardust
03-20-2010, 11:52 AM
As always Poet, your analysis of Tyson is on point. He was a great fighter who peaked early, like many fighters with a similar style and lifestyle.

I really don't have any quarrel when someone has him ranked anywhere from 5 to 12 all-time among Heavyweights based on his ability. To my mind that would be picking nits because a fair case can be made ranking him anywhere in that range. It's when people are ranking him in the top-5 or worse at #1 that I take issue with. At the same time I take serious issue with those who have him barely cracking the top-20: That's as mind-blowingly inane as ranking him the GOAT imo.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
03-20-2010, 11:59 AM
few examples for the pre set pattern

what do u mean about the 2nd part?

Rooney had a number for each punch and he would call out a sequence of numbers to Tyson during rounds indicating the combination Mike was to throw. For example: 1-1-4-2-6 might mean double jab, straight right, left hook, right uppercut.

As to the second part, someone calling out number sequences and your opponent throwing a series of punches to that sequence isn't particularly difficult for an astute fighter and his corner to pick up on; particularly when it was well known at the time that that's what Rooney and Tyson were doing. At the same time, knowing what's coming isn't the same as being able to avoid it.

Poet

Shazam!
03-20-2010, 12:31 PM
Yeah he was predictable. Of course he was. He only fought one way and never changed throughout his career.

Having said that, this is heavyweight boxing and Tyson had the speed and power to knock out anyone. He was predictable, yes. But just knowing what Tyson's gonna do doesn't mean you're gonna stop him doing it. Smarter, more accomplished heavyweights would have deal with him better, but those were few and far between in the 80's.

CarlosG815
03-20-2010, 01:42 PM
Yeah he was predictable. Of course he was. He only fought one way and never changed throughout his career.

Having said that, this is heavyweight boxing and Tyson had the speed and power to knock out anyone. He was predictable, yes. But just knowing what Tyson's gonna do doesn't mean you're gonna stop him doing it. Smarter, more accomplished heavyweights would have deal with him better, but those were few and far between in the 80's.

He was much better early on. In 88 when he decided to go with a black power nobody, he turned into a ****ty fighter. He wasn't very good and it's a wonder he didn't lose before the Douglas fight.

Tyson looked so bad in the Frank Bruno fight I thought at several points throughout that fight that he was going to get KO'd. The post prison version was even worse, but still good enough to beat most HW's of the time.

bklynboy
03-20-2010, 02:04 PM
dundee said he was

was he??

I think that harold lederman called him as predictable as a hurricane.

Ziggy Stardust
03-20-2010, 02:07 PM
I think that harold lederman called him as predictable as a hurricane.

Yeah but Lederman is an idiot.....JIM!

Poet

bklynboy
03-20-2010, 02:17 PM
I really don't have any quarrel when someone has him ranked anywhere from 5 to 12 all-time among Heavyweights based on his ability. To my mind that would be picking nits because a fair case can be made ranking him anywhere in that range. It's when people are ranking him in the top-5 or worse at #1 that I take issue with. At the same time I take serious issue with those who have him barely cracking the top-20: That's as mind-blowingly inane as ranking him the GOAT imo.

Poet

My problem with judging him is that we know -- in retrospect -- that he was a weak-willed man ( in comparison with boxing greats, not the avg man on the street). He took on the personality of those around him. He was a precocious talent with Cus D'Amato and a thug with Don King.

I was in awe of him in the 80s and devasted when he lost to Buster Douglas, but Holyfield showed what a skilled boxer could do when he wasn't afraid of him.

Is Tyson a TOP 10 or TOP 12 heavyweight? Yeah, I think so.

Ziggy Stardust
03-20-2010, 02:23 PM
My problem with judging him is that we know -- in retrospect -- that he was a weak-willed man ( in comparison with boxing greats, not the avg man on the street). He took on the personality of those around him. He was a precocious talent with Cus D'Amato and a thug with Don King.

I was in awe of him in the 80s and devasted when he lost to Buster Douglas, but Holyfield showed what a skilled boxer could do when he wasn't afraid of him.

Is Tyson a TOP 10 or TOP 12 heavyweight? Yeah, I think so.

I personally have him at #10 but certainly wouldn't quibble over someone having him a bit higher or a bit lower :)

Poet

Shazam!
03-20-2010, 02:24 PM
He was much better early on. In 88 when he decided to go with a black power nobody, he turned into a ****ty fighter. He wasn't very good and it's a wonder he didn't lose before the Douglas fight.

Tyson looked so bad in the Frank Bruno fight I thought at several points throughout that fight that he was going to get KO'd. The post prison version was even worse, but still good enough to beat most HW's of the time.

You're obviously a big Tyson fan. As am I. But I would argue that his downward spiral post-88 was as much down to better opposition as it was to his trainer, personal life etc.

Tyson was sensational as a youngster but he also had a pretty decent run to the heavyweight title. Most of the top fighters he faced in his career came after he had won the title. I'm thinking Tucker, Ruddock and yes, Douglas who, while by no means a HOF fighter, fought one of the greatest fights in HW history that night.

It doesn't matter who you are, eventually you're gonna come up against some kryptonite and it's up to the true greats to adapt their game to meet these new demands and rise above the challenge. As destructive as he could be, Tyson just didn't have a plan B.

Snopkins
03-20-2010, 02:31 PM
I think that harold lederman called him as predictable as a hurricane.




It was Larry Merchant who said that.He made a comment something along the lines of "Some said that Tyson at his best was predictable. So is a hurricane. What can you do about it?"

bklynboy
03-20-2010, 02:38 PM
It was Larry Merchant who said that.He made a comment something along the lines of "Some said that Tyson at his best was predictable. So is a hurricane. What can you do about it?"

That quote sounds about right.

CarlosG815
03-20-2010, 03:39 PM
You're obviously a big Tyson fan. As am I. But I would argue that his downward spiral post-88 was as much down to better opposition as it was to his trainer, personal life etc.

Tyson was sensational as a youngster but he also had a pretty decent run to the heavyweight title. Most of the top fighters he faced in his career came after he had won the title. I'm thinking Tucker, Ruddock and yes, Douglas who, while by no means a HOF fighter, fought one of the greatest fights in HW history that night.

It doesn't matter who you are, eventually you're gonna come up against some kryptonite and it's up to the true greats to adapt their game to meet these new demands and rise above the challenge. As destructive as he could be, Tyson just didn't have a plan B.

I agree with most of what you said, but I don't feel like Holyfield was on Prime Tyson's level. I just don't see Holyfield lasting when Tyson was at his best.

Buster Douglas, when he wanted to be, was a lot better than he got credit for. He had a lot of talent and having watched the fight just yesterday on ESPN classic, he could have beat anybody that night. He was durable, fast, and his shots were pinpoint accurate and he was throwing hard even in the latest rounds.

Mix that with the fact that Tyson was a 1 dimensional "go for the KO in one hit" fighter that night, it was a recipe for destruction for Tyson.

I don't agree that it was better opposition so much as the personal life and trainer. Tyson got dropped by his sparring partner before the Douglas fight and was banging 4 jap girls at a time in Tokyo before the fight.

He was in no condition to go 12 rounds and in his mind (probably the mindset his "crew" put him in) he wouldn't need to prepare for more than 8 rounds.

*RAZOR RUIZ*
03-20-2010, 05:16 PM
it was predictable he was going to win by KO
hahah so true.

razzledaz 38
03-21-2010, 01:15 PM
Yes, but predicting what he would do and being able to nullify it were two different things.

Poet

exactly! larry merchant once said about tyson being predictable *so is a hurricane but there,s nothing you can do about it*

sonnyboyx2
03-21-2010, 05:00 PM
dundee said he was

was he??

predictable in that he was always ****in exciting and would try to hammer his opponent into the ground

sonnyboyx2
03-21-2010, 05:10 PM
You're obviously a big Tyson fan. As am I. But I would argue that his downward spiral post-88 was as much down to better opposition as it was to his trainer, personal life etc.

Tyson was sensational as a youngster but he also had a pretty decent run to the heavyweight title. Most of the top fighters he faced in his career came after he had won the title. I'm thinking Tucker, Ruddock and yes, Douglas who, while by no means a HOF fighter, fought one of the greatest fights in HW history that night.

It doesn't matter who you are, eventually you're gonna come up against some kryptonite and it's up to the true greats to adapt their game to meet these new demands and rise above the challenge. As destructive as he could be, Tyson just didn't have a plan B.

i agree with what you are saying, but Buster Douglas is vastly underestimated, if you watch Douglas vs Berbick, Douglas vs McCall, Douglas vs Page & Douglas vs Ferguson you will see that it is the same Douglas that fought Tyson.. Styles ,make fights and Tyson had the perfect Style for Douglas to show his skills... i dont think Tyson peaked in the late 80s IMO he was just not training correctly 89-90 so got beat, IMO Tyson vs Holyfield (1) was Mike Tyson at his very very best, it was one of the Top 5 greatest Heavyweight fights in History.. The beating Tyson took in that fight `finished him` as a top flight fighter.

fight_professor
03-21-2010, 05:54 PM
Yes, but predicting what he would do and being able to nullify it were two different things.

Poet

Exactly. He had a method, but no one could undo it until Douglas.

Sugarj
03-21-2010, 07:51 PM
Hi Sonnyboyx, I'm suprised you think that Tyson was at his very best in 1996against Holyfield (1). He looked good in spurts over the first five rounds, but the combinations and head movement weren't quite what they were.

It was a good fight, one I've watched many times but Holyfield's incessant clinching early on didn't half make for stop/start action, I guess it is what he needed to do though. Poor Mitch Halpern had his hands full that night.

Verstyle
03-21-2010, 10:19 PM
Yeah he was predictable with the bobbing and weaving. It's easy to try to counter his next move but you have to be at the right angles to tag him. This is with fast bombs at weird angles coming at you in burst. Then if you hit him with a timed punch, then what? More then likely he's still going to be coming at you so you have to do it again and again and again.

The only ones I've seen do this with a Tyson in form was Tillis and Douglas.

Verstyle
03-21-2010, 10:22 PM
i agree with what you are saying, but Buster Douglas is vastly underestimated, if you watch Douglas vs Berbick, Douglas vs McCall, Douglas vs Page & Douglas vs Ferguson you will see that it is the same Douglas that fought Tyson.. Styles ,make fights and Tyson had the perfect Style for Douglas to show his skills... i dont think Tyson peaked in the late 80s IMO he was just not training correctly 89-90 so got beat, IMO Tyson vs Holyfield (1) was Mike Tyson at his very very best, it was one of the Top 5 greatest Heavyweight fights in History.. The beating Tyson took in that fight `finished him` as a top flight fighter.

I really didn't see Douglas tire vs. Tyson. Now for those fights to call him the same fighter?:luvbed:

Clyde Barrow
03-21-2010, 10:23 PM
Maybe so but not a hell of a lot his opponents could do about it at the time. Mike was well rounded at his best, not just a slugger.

bojangles1987
03-21-2010, 10:52 PM
Yes, but predicting what he would do and being able to nullify it were two different things.

Poet

Exactly. Just because you knew Ali was going to dance doesn't mean you could do anything about it. Just because you knew Frazier was going to bob and weave inside and throw a left hook didn't mean you could do anything about it.

Just because you knew what Tyson was doing didn't make it any easier to stop it.

bolopunchez
03-21-2010, 11:01 PM
They knew he would come after them with an intention of knocking them out. Bobbing and weaving to avoid punches, while doing so. But there was not much most of his opponents could do about it. They feared him and that played a big part in how they would fight him.