View Full Version : James Toney vs Prime Lennox Lewis


Earl Hickey
03-16-2010, 10:31 PM
Who do you think takes it?

The_Demon
03-16-2010, 10:35 PM
lewis to big,to strong

Southpaw Stinger
03-16-2010, 10:36 PM
Lewis takes this one. Definitely.

HitmanHattonAY
03-16-2010, 11:01 PM
lewis to big,to strong

yer i think there would be a ko lol

Big Vern
03-16-2010, 11:14 PM
lewis to big,to strong

Yep, for sure.

ShatteredGlass
03-16-2010, 11:32 PM
Toney by Brutal KO, Lewis was a typical British hype job, he ducked all the good fighters, Bowe, Tyson and Holyfield and instead fought other bums like Bruno and Morrison.

Toney only has to land once on lewis glass chin and it will be Hasim Rahman all over again!

The_Demon
03-16-2010, 11:36 PM
Toney by Brutal KO, Lewis was a typical British hype job, he ducked all the good fighters, Bowe, Tyson and Holyfield and instead fought other bums like Bruno and Morrison.

Toney only has to land once on lewis glass chin and it will be Hasim Rahman all over again!

no wonder your in the red kid

you know nothing about boxing and your just a pathetic delusional hater

now,**** off

sonnyboyx2
03-18-2010, 05:19 AM
common opponents like Rahman & Holyfield say Toney via KO

Shazam!
03-18-2010, 07:12 AM
Hahaha. Damn, some of these polls are hilarious.

See Lewis/Tua.

sonnyboyx2
03-18-2010, 04:33 PM
Hahaha. Damn, some of these polls are hilarious.

See Lewis/Tua.

Tua was 255+lbs and the fattest man to ever fight for the title.... Toney hammered Holyfield something Lewis never came near to doing, Toney hammered Rahman the same Rahman who poleaxed Lewis... Lewis would never fight a guy like James Toney in a million years

LOLORSKATES
03-18-2010, 05:08 PM
Lewis would just work his jab and make Toney think it's a big mac...

He'd eat it everytime.

Junito-Rulez
03-18-2010, 05:58 PM
Prime Lennox vs Prime Heavyweight Toney :
Lennox Lewis outbowes a small Toney and wins a wide UD.

Southpaw Stinger
03-18-2010, 07:34 PM
Cunts picking Toney to win.

smh sickening. :nonono:

Jim Jeffries
03-18-2010, 07:37 PM
If Lewis couldn't stop Tua, it's doubtful he'd stop Toney.

Maybe the Toney that fought Holyfield could hurt Lewis, but I doubt it.

I think Lewis keeps him on the end of his jab most of the night, with Toney having some success in the clinches. Lewis UD.

sonnyboyx2
03-19-2010, 04:30 AM
If Lewis couldn't stop Tua, it's doubtful he'd stop Toney.

Maybe the Toney that fought Holyfield could hurt Lewis, but I doubt it.

I think Lewis keeps him on the end of his jab most of the night, with Toney having some success in the clinches. Lewis UD.

Lewis had a very weak jab, it was nothing more than a paw or distraction, a fighter of the calibre of James Toney would have little difficulty slipping the jab and would hurt Lewis similar to how he hurt Holyfield & Rahman... Toney would be the most skilled fighter Lewis had ever been in the ring with by a long way... Lewis always struggled with fighters under 6ft tall, Tua, Ocassio, Billups all took him the distance, even Tyson who was a completely shot fighter lasted to the 8th round as did tomato can Lionel Butler.. This would be a very easy fight for Toney and i see him winning via KO in 6-7rds

JAB5239
03-19-2010, 04:46 AM
Lewis had a very weak jab, it was nothing more than a paw or distraction, a fighter of the calibre of James Toney would have little difficulty slipping the jab and would hurt Lewis similar to how he hurt Holyfield & Rahman... Toney would be the most skilled fighter Lewis had ever been in the ring with by a long way... Lewis always struggled with fighters under 6ft tall, Tua, Ocassio, Billups all took him the distance, even Tyson who was a completely shot fighter lasted to the 8th round as did tomato can Lionel Butler.. This would be a very easy fight for Toney and i see him winning via KO in 6-7rds

With all due respect Sonny, Lewis MAY have lost 6 or 7 rounds out of the 38 he fought between the guys I bolded. I wouldn't call that struggling.

mickey malone
03-19-2010, 04:53 AM
Toney hurt an ancient Holyfield, but he wouldn't have the power to trouble a prime Lewis..
He may have some success in the early rounds, but he'd be overwhelmed in the second half of the fight and get stopped.. He doesn't have a ghost punch like McCall and Rahman or the physical attributes to wear Lewis down.. A crafty defensive style won't beat Lewis, so I can't see a way in which Toney could win..

sonnyboyx2
03-19-2010, 07:14 AM
With all due respect Sonny, Lewis MAY have lost 6 or 7 rounds out of the 38 he fought between the guys I bolded. I wouldn't call that struggling.

JAB.. dont forget that those guys was all way past their best days when they fought Lewis and still went the full distance.. this topic is similar to what i read when Toney was fighting the likes of Rahman, Ruiz & Sam Peter and the majority claiming that Toney would be KOd and overwhelmed yet it was the opposite that happened, James Toney has never ever looked like he would be KOd by any fighter in his 70+ fight career, the same cannot be said for Lennox Lewis and as i pointed out earlier Toney is on a different planet skillwise to everyone Lewis has ever fought... i see Toney winning this easily KO 6-7rds

sonnyboyx2
03-19-2010, 07:17 AM
Toney hurt an ancient Holyfield, but he wouldn't have the power to trouble a prime Lewis..
He may have some success in the early rounds, but he'd be overwhelmed in the second half of the fight and get stopped.. He doesn't have a ghost punch like McCall and Rahman or the physical attributes to wear Lewis down.. A crafty defensive style won't beat Lewis, so I can't see a way in which Toney could win..

Mickey... explain your points in detail which you make:

Toney hurt an ancient Holyfield, but he wouldn't have the power to trouble a prime Lewis ?

he'd be overwhelmed in the second half of the fight and get stopped ?

A crafty defensive style won't beat Lewis, so I can't see a way in which Toney could win.?

JAB5239
03-19-2010, 07:19 AM
JAB.. dont forget that those guys was all way past their best days when they fought Lewis and still went the full distance.. this topic is similar to what i read when Toney was fighting the likes of Rahman, Ruiz & Sam Peter and the majority claiming that Toney would be KOd and overwhelmed yet it was the opposite that happened, James Toney has never ever looked like he would be KOd by any fighter in his 70+ fight career, the same cannot be said for Lennox Lewis and as i pointed out earlier Toney is on a different planet skillwise to everyone Lewis has ever fought... i see Toney winning this easily KO 6-7rds

Maybe so, but I firmly believe that besides the Tua fight where Lewis played it safe, that these other fights weren't Lewis having difficulties but fighting down to his competition and not giving it his all. And even with that he really didn't have any problems with these guys.

Cassius Liston
03-19-2010, 07:24 AM
This is a joke question right?????????????????????????

sonnyboyx2
03-19-2010, 07:59 AM
Maybe so, but I firmly believe that besides the Tua fight where Lewis played it safe, that these other fights weren't Lewis having difficulties but fighting down to his competition and not giving it his all. And even with that he really didn't have any problems with these guys.

thats true enough JAB.. but can you name me anyone who Lewis fought in his career who had boxing skills anywhere like what James Toney has... i remember Holyfield being interviewed in the ring after Toney stopped him and Evander said, "i was hurt several times by his punches and i am pleased my corner stopped the fight as i could have gotten hurt"... yet so far all i have read on this topic is members claiming Lewis would just more or less `steamroll` James Toney... IMO Lewis would be in way over his head, size means nothing, its skills that count!

Pirao
03-19-2010, 08:08 AM
Lennox by lopsided UD.

The_Demon
03-19-2010, 08:14 AM
people actually picking toney to win

i didnt realize the delusion from NSB had spread into the history section

mickey malone
03-19-2010, 10:22 AM
Mickey... explain your points in detail which you make:

Toney hurt an ancient Holyfield, but he wouldn't have the power to trouble a prime Lewis ?

he'd be overwhelmed in the second half of the fight and get stopped ?

A crafty defensive style won't beat Lewis, so I can't see a way in which Toney could win.?
These are just my opinions, but if we go by facts, the facts are that although a brilliant boxer, James Toney was never a brilliant heavyweight..
With the exception of Holyfield, he's struggled in all of his fights at HW..

Sam Peter's one of the slowest fighters i've ever seen, and he dealt with Toney on two occasions.. Toney also struggled against Rahman, Oquendo, Batchelder and Guinn..
Lewis proved in his second fight with Rahman, that when he was concentrating, he could flatten him at will..
With the exception of old Holy (who was stopped on his feet) Toney's never scored a KO at HW, so how on earth does he KO Lewis mid-way?

Lewis won the title twice, defending it several times, where as Toney wasn't able to win it once, and that was in one of the weakest pools of all time..
I agree that size is less important than skill, but when you compare these two, it's fairly elementary that Lewis's 6'5" frame and 84" reach is way too much for Toney..
That's 7" in height and 12" in reach.. I'd give him a chance against Valuev, but no way is he getting past Lewis..

Toney616
03-19-2010, 10:59 AM
common opponents like Rahman & Holyfield say Toney via KO
lmao
Lewis is to big and to strong, Toney,s best chance would be to win by decision. If Lewis started using the jab like he did in Holyfield I, then Toney would have serious problems.

Lewis by jabbing and clinching on the inside wins a ud

sonnyboyx2
03-19-2010, 11:43 AM
lmao
Lewis is to big and to strong, Toney,s best chance would be to win by decision. If Lewis started using the jab like he did in Holyfield I, then Toney would have serious problems.

Lewis by jabbing and clinching on the inside wins a ud

ridiculous comments that Lewis is too big & strong... was any of the other heavyweights James Toney fought too big & strong?... you say about Lewis jab which was nothing more than a paw or distraction, who did Lewis ever beat using his jab.. Bruno gave him a beat down with his jab..no fighter who Toney has ever fought including the heavyweights have been able to put him in trouble.. was Rahman able to use his jab to put Toney in trouble?... its back to the old "My brother is bigger than your brother" drivel.... Toney beat Rahman and Holyfield far easier than Lewis beat those two fighters

General Zod
03-19-2010, 11:55 AM
ridiculous comments that Lewis is too big & strong... was any of the other heavyweights James Toney fought too big & strong?... you say about Lewis jab which was nothing more than a paw or distraction, who did Lewis ever beat using his jab
Lewis literally shut out Holyfield I with his jab.


.. Bruno gave him a beat down with his jab.
Bruno is 6'3 and Toney is at best 5'10, I dont know there reach but I know Bruno reach is much longer than Toneys, so this example doesnt mean anything

.no fighter who Toney has ever fought including the heavyweights have been able to put him in trouble.. was Rahman able to use his jab to put Toney in

Toney has never fought a 6'5 heavyweight yet with the same each as lewis, Toney was also dominated by Sam Peter in there remtch if I remember correctly

trouble?... its back to the old "My brother is bigger than your brother" drivel.... Toney beat Rahman and Holyfield far easier than Lewis beat those two fighters
Toney beat Holyfield in 2003, Holyfield was clearly on the slide by that point he was 2-1-2 in his last 5 fights before facing Toney, he would lose again after Toney and get suspended. Toney also went to Evnader body which Lewis didnt do.

Toney drew with Rahman and got a nc in his second fight with him due to the headbutt so its hardly a win. Didnt Lewis wipe out Rahman in there rematch?
since moving to hw toney has only stopped 2 fighters in 11 fights, so there is no way he is going to stop lewis.

sonnyboyx2
03-19-2010, 01:40 PM
Lewis literally shut out Holyfield I with his jab.


Bruno is 6'3 and Toney is at best 5'10, I dont know there reach but I know Bruno reach is much longer than Toneys, so this example doesnt mean anything

Toney has never fought a 6'5 heavyweight yet with the same each as lewis, Toney was also dominated by Sam Peter in there remtch if I remember correctly

Toney beat Holyfield in 2003, Holyfield was clearly on the slide by that point he was 2-1-2 in his last 5 fights before facing Toney, he would lose again after Toney and get suspended. Toney also went to Evnader body which Lewis didnt do.

Toney drew with Rahman and got a nc in his second fight with him due to the headbutt so its hardly a win. Didnt Lewis wipe out Rahman in there rematch?
since moving to hw toney has only stopped 2 fighters in 11 fights, so there is no way he is going to stop lewis.

Bruno is 6ft 3ins but your using your my brother is taller than your brother thesis once again... if hieght was the deciding factor then Nicolay Valuev would be champ for life.

Tonay aint fought a 6ft 5in fighter yet... but so what, he fought and beat Rahman, Guinn & Ruiz who are both 6ft 3in, he called repeatedly for a shot at the Klitschko brothers who are both taller than Lewis..

Holyfield who fought Toney was the same Holyfield who fought Lewis, Evander had just butchered Rahman and injured his shoulder vs Byrd... but of course like all Lewis fans you will try to claim Lewis fought a prime Holyfield.

Toney went to Holyfields body just like he would go to Lewis body, the reason Lewis never went to Holyfields body is because he ran all night from Holyfield.

Toney hammered Rahman in there 2nd fight and Rahman quit.. and what you fail to say was that Rahman poleaxed Lewis...

you could give me a good laugh and try to claim Lewis was not focused against Rahman

General Zod
03-19-2010, 02:21 PM
Bruno is 6ft 3ins but your using your my brother is taller than your brother thesis once again... if hieght was the deciding factor then Nicolay Valuev would be champ for life.
You mentioned that Lewis was dominated by Bruno's jab and the point I made was that that had no bearing on how a Lewis Toney fight would play out.

Tonay aint fought a 6ft 5in fighter yet... but so what, he fought and beat Rahman, Guinn & Ruiz who are both 6ft 3in, he called repeatedly for a shot at the Klitschko brothers who are both taller than Lewis..
None of the above fighters fight like Lewis or are the same size as Lewis, how would Toney cope with Lewis jab which would keep him on the outside like it did against Holyfield? None of the guys you mentioned try to keep Toney on the outside either, Ruiz is mr punch and grab and Guinn fought a inside fight against Toney.

Holyfield who fought Toney was the same Holyfield who fought Lewis, Evander had just butchered Rahman and injured his shoulder vs Byrd... but of course like all Lewis fans you will try to claim Lewis fought a prime Holyfield.
Holyfield headbutted Rahman to death, like he tries to do in a lot of his fights, Evander also had the same shoulder problem in the Toney fight which is why he was getting caught with so many right hands. Interesting that you forgot to mention that.

Toney went to Holyfields body just like he would go to Lewis body, the reason Lewis never went to Holyfields body is because he ran all night from Holyfield.

Lewis doesnt fight like Holyfield, so this is a bad comparison, Holyfield has always been susceptable to body attacks as well.

Toney hammered Rahman in there 2nd fight and Rahman quit.. and what you fail to say was that Rahman poleaxed Lewis...

you could give me a good laugh and try to claim Lewis was not focused against Rahman
Lewis wiped out Rahman in their rematch, which proves the point that he wasnt focused in their first fight.

Toney was also dominated by Peters in their rematch and a lot of people thought he got a gift with his draw against Rahman in their first fight.

sonnyboyx2
03-19-2010, 02:41 PM
You mentioned that Lewis was dominated by Bruno's jab and the point I made was that that had no bearing on how a Lewis Toney fight would play out.

None of the above fighters fight like Lewis or are the same size as Lewis, how would Toney cope with Lewis jab which would keep him on the outside like it did against Holyfield? None of the guys you mentioned try to keep Toney on the outside either, Ruiz is mr punch and grab and Guinn fought a inside fight against Toney.

Holyfield headbutted Rahman to death, like he tries to do in a lot of his fights, Evander also had the same shoulder problem in the Toney fight which is why he was getting caught with so many right hands. Interesting that you forgot to mention that.

Lewis doesnt fight like Holyfield, so this is a bad comparison, Holyfield has always been susceptable to body attacks as well.

Lewis wiped out Rahman in their rematch, which proves the point that he wasnt focused in their first fight.

i was looking forward to a decent discusion on the sport and this topic in particular with you until you posted this comment..
""Lewis wiped out Rahman in their rematch, which proves the point that he wasnt focused in their first fight.""

So what you are saying is that every fighter in the history of boxing who loses a fight then defeats that opponent in a rematch "Was not focused" in the first fight... i cannot recall Muhammad Ali claiming he was not focused for Fight of the Century or Ray Robinson making that claim after he fought Carmen Basilio... Lewis liked to `make-up` those kind of lame excuses, like when he claimed McCall caught him with a "Lucky Punch"...so with you being easily sucked in by those kind of fairy stories i will call it a day on this topic as i cannot state my case with someone like you.

Marcov
03-19-2010, 04:32 PM
I like to think of Lewis in two ways. The pre-Steward Lewis walked in throwing the big right fighting his way to victory. Steward's role in his career is underrated. The steward trained Lewis came in behind the jab and rarely led with the right. This was a major development and change that seperated him from the rest. This Lewis style wise would have been a problem for Toney. Offering movement and making Toney come foward. If it worked for Peter(Peter the boxer lol), Lewis would have dominated Toney. However if Toney faced the pre-Steward Lewis, it might have been closer. But either way I favor Lewis.

Boxin'
03-19-2010, 04:32 PM
Toney by Brutal KO, Lewis was a typical British hype job, he ducked all the good fighters, Bowe, Tyson and Holyfield and instead fought other bums like Bruno and Morrison.

Toney only has to land once on lewis glass chin and it will be Hasim Rahman all over again!

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/troll_detected.png

fight_professor
03-19-2010, 05:44 PM
Lennox wins this easily. JT at HW wasnt the man he once was, his size for one, the relative decline in speed etc. Lewis jabs all day. UD.

mickey malone
03-20-2010, 06:06 AM
What a totally and utterly ridiculous thread, this has turned out to be..
But it's also a classic example of why i'm rapidly losing interest in this site..
Note - All the poeple who are in favour of Toney have shrivelled up and fizzled out already lol..

This was after opening their argument, WITHOUT ONCE realizing that James Toney has NEVER cracked it at heavyweight, in one of the weakest retirement pools of all time..

1. He has never knocked out a prime heavyweight
2. He has struggled in ALL of his fights at heavyweight
3. He's only had 10 out of 70 fights at heavyweight

There are clowns on here who still believe in Captain America and Santa Claus, and i'm just about sick of it..
Toney looks like Oliver Hardy at 200+ and would be crushed by Lewis..

Anyone who disagree's... Please give me the name of a prime heavyweight who James Toney has dominated??.. With or without using steroids lol

mickey malone
03-20-2010, 06:11 AM
I like to think of Lewis in two ways. The pre-Steward Lewis walked in throwing the big right fighting his way to victory. Steward's role in his career is underrated. The steward trained Lewis came in behind the jab and rarely led with the right. This was a major development and change that seperated him from the rest. This Lewis style wise would have been a problem for Toney. Offering movement and making Toney come foward. If it worked for Peter(Peter the boxer lol), Lewis would have dominated Toney. However if Toney faced the pre-Steward Lewis, it might have been closer. But either way I favor Lewis.
One of the few sensible posts.. GreenK given..

lyrical
03-20-2010, 06:31 AM
Lewis wins on points in a boring safety first match

Ziggy Stardust
03-20-2010, 10:50 AM
What a totally and utterly ridiculous thread, this has turned out to be.. But it's also a classic example of why i'm rapidly losing interest in this site.. Note - All the poeple who are in favour of Toney have shrivelled up and fizzled out already lol..

I can understand your sentiment. I go through similar phases every few months. After a while the trolls, nuthuggers, and all-around idiots get to be mentally exhausting. The thing is, this is still the boxing forum with by far the most activity day to day.

Poet

sonnyboyx2
03-20-2010, 11:42 AM
I like to think of Lewis in two ways. The pre-Steward Lewis walked in throwing the big right fighting his way to victory. Steward's role in his career is underrated. The steward trained Lewis came in behind the jab and rarely led with the right. This was a major development and change that seperated him from the rest. This Lewis style wise would have been a problem for Toney. Offering movement and making Toney come foward. If it worked for Peter(Peter the boxer lol), Lewis would have dominated Toney. However if Toney faced the pre-Steward Lewis, it might have been closer. But either way I favor Lewis.

Well if Stewart was so good for Lewis why did Stewart tell Lewis not to fight Chris Byrd because Byrd would make Lewis look bad and that Lewis would most likely lose a lop-sided decision to Byrd.... Why did Stewart tell Lewis to drop his belt rather than face John Ruiz saying Ruiz grappling hook style is all wrong for Lewis... Why did Stewart talk Lewis out of fighting a rematch with Vitali Klitschko... Manny Stewart is responsible for Lennox Lewis being stripped of all three world title belts, WBA for refusing to fight John Ruiz... IBF for refusing to fight Chris Byrd... WBC for refusing to fight Vitali Klitschko.... Stewart got Lewis to avoid all the No1 contenders because they was too dangerous and instead he had Lewis fight Tomato can Michael Grant who had been exposed by Golota as mediocre... Mike Tyson who had 12 weeks to shed 60lbs in weight and was heavily under sedation and also years past his best... Frans Botha a steroid freak who was not ranked in the world Top 50.... David Tua who weighed 255lbs and was the fattest man to ever fight for the title... Hasim Rahman a journeyman who poleaxed Lewis.

So much for your great Emanuel Stewart... the truth is that Lewis avoided the guys who was at the top of their game and chose to instead fight tomato cans and old has-beens

General Zod
03-20-2010, 11:43 AM
i was looking forward to a decent discusion on the sport and this topic in particular with you until you posted this comment..
""Lewis wiped out Rahman in their rematch, which proves the point that he wasnt focused in their first fight.""
I shouldnt of mentioned that, but Lewis did tend to fight to the level of his opposition, he underrated Rahman and got wiped out. If I remember correctly wasnt he busy making films instead of training as well

General Zod
03-20-2010, 11:50 AM
Well if Stewart was so good for Lewis why did Stewart tell Lewis not to fight Chris Byrd because Byrd would make Lewis look bad and that Lewis would most likely lose a lop-sided decision to Byrd
Manny didnt say that, he said that Lewis fought to the level of his opponents amd he would of looked bad chasing Byrd around the ring. You should read the Lewis bio called Mamas Boy

.... Why did Stewart tell Lewis to drop his belt rather than face John Ruiz saying Ruiz grappling hook style is all wrong for Lewis...
Not true, as I said before it was the crappy guys who Lewis tended to struggle with because he wouldnt of been motivated to fight them, which is why he vacated the WBA belt, you cant really believe than Ruiz would beat Lewis?

Why did Stewart talk Lewis out of fighting a rematch with Vitali Klitschko...

Not true Manny said he was dissapointed that Lewis didnt fight Vitali again


Manny Stewart is responsible for Lennox Lewis being stripped of all three world title belts, WBA for refusing to fight John Ruiz... IBF for refusing to fight Chris Byrd... WBC for refusing to fight Vitali Klitschko.... Stewart got Lewis to avoid all the No1 contenders because they was too dangerous and instead he had Lewis fight Tomato can Michael Grant who had been exposed by Golota as mediocre... Mike Tyson who had 12 weeks to shed 60lbs in weight and was heavily under sedation and also years past his best... Frans Botha a steroid freak who was not ranked in the world Top 50.... David Tua who weighed 255lbs and was the fattest man to ever fight for the title... Hasim Rahman a journeyman who poleaxed Lewis.

So much for your great Emanuel Stewart... the truth is that Lewis avoided the guys who was at the top of their game and chose to instead fight tomato cans and old has-beens
Who did Lewis avoid according to you, please dont say Bowe.

Ziggy Stardust
03-20-2010, 12:09 PM
I shouldnt of mentioned that, but Lewis did tend to fight to the level of his opposition, he underrated Rahman and got wiped out. If I remember correctly wasnt he busy making films instead of training as well

He had been filming "Ocean-11" I believe.

Poet

General Zod
03-20-2010, 12:10 PM
He had been filming "Ocean-11" I believe.

Poet
Thanks for this

sonnyboyx2
03-20-2010, 12:30 PM
Who did Lewis avoid according to you, please dont say Bowe.[/QUOTE]

here is a link... you will no doubt claim the guy is telling lies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0eins2DhSo

sonnyboyx2
03-20-2010, 12:32 PM
Manny Pacquiao has made 9 feature films and recorded dozens of pop songs... but he does not blame his performances on it...

General Zod
03-20-2010, 12:39 PM
here is a link... you will no doubt claim the guy is telling lies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0eins2DhSo
I have posted this on another thread and I going to assume you missed it so I will post it again.

Bowe was not Holyfield's WBC mandatory, Razor Ruddock was, which means that Evander was under no obligation to fight him or offer him a fair deal.

After winning the court case so that he was free to defend his belt against Bowe, the WBC had an elimination bout to decide who would be the no 1 wbc mandatory between Lewis and Ruddock, Lewis won

Lewis was Bowe's WBC mandatory, so he had to cut Lewis a more fair deal like ,60/40.

General Zod
03-20-2010, 12:42 PM
Manny Pacquiao has made 9 feature films and recorded dozens of pop songs... but he does not blame his performances on it...
Bad example, all fighters arent the same in how they cope with outside distractions. Also Pac is the first to make up excuses when he doesnt look good the first Morales fight comes to mind.

Shazam!
03-20-2010, 12:53 PM
Bad example, all fighters arent the same in how they cope with outside distractions. Also Pac is the first to make up excuses when he doesnt look good the first Morales fight comes to mind.

About the Oceans 11 thing. I wouldn't use that as the sole reason for Lewis losing to Rahman, but it definitely helped towards it.

I watched both fights here in the UK. The first and second Rahman fights that is.

For the first, Lewis didn't just get knocked out by a freak punch. It was coming. He was sluggish for the whole fight and the commentators here on Sky Sports alluded to that fact. It was clear that Lewis had been extremely compacement in preparing for Rahman, who was like a 15 or 20-1 underdog if I remember correctly. This complacency is a definite negative against Lewis. It proved that he was not always 100% prepared for his fights. It's difficult when everyone says you're guaranteed to win. Lewis has so much belief in his ability that I honestly think he thought there was no way even a 70-80% version of himself could lose to Rahman. He was wrong and got what he deserved.

On the contrary, take a look at the second fight and you see a much more focused, well-prepared Lewis. He looks a completely different fighter to the guy who fought Rahman in South Africa. He looks in better shape, much sharper, controlling the fight and knocking Rahman out in the 4th round I believe.

There's no doubt for me that complacency was the main hinderance in Lewis's career. He was not as dedicated a professional as various other fighters we could name e.g. Evander Holyfield who was a smaller guy and always made sure (legally or illegally) that he produced the very best version of himself whenever he stepped in the ring.

General Zod
03-20-2010, 12:59 PM
About the Oceans 11 thing. I wouldn't use that as the sole reason for Lewis losing to Rahman, but it definitely helped towards it.

I watched both fights here in the UK. The first and second Rahman fights that is.

For the first, Lewis didn't just get knocked out by a freak punch. It was coming. He was sluggish for the whole fight and the commentators here on Sky Sports alluded to that fact. It was clear that Lewis had been extremely compacement in preparing for Rahman, who was like a 15 or 20-1 underdog if I remember correctly. This complacency is a definite negative against Lewis. It proved that he was not always 100% prepared for his fights. It's difficult when everyone says you're guaranteed to win. Lewis has so much belief in his ability that I honestly think he thought there was no way even a 70-80% version of himself could lose to Rahman. He was wrong and got what he deserved.

On the contrary, take a look at the second fight and you see a much more focused, well-prepared Lewis. He looks a completely different fighter to the guy who fought Rahman in South Africa. He looks in better shape, much sharper, controlling the fight and knocking Rahman out in the 4th round I believe.

There's no doubt for me that complacency was the main hinderance in Lewis's career. He was not as dedicated a professional as various other fighters we could name e.g. Evander Holyfield who was a smaller guy and always made sure (legally or illegally) that he produced the very best version of himself whenever he stepped in the ring.
Excellent post

Shazam!
03-20-2010, 01:04 PM
Thanks. I wouldn't wanna be stereotyped as a 'nuthugger' or anything [/sarcasm]

sonnyboyx2
03-20-2010, 02:34 PM
Manny didnt say that, he said that Lewis fought to the level of his opponents amd he would of looked bad chasing Byrd around the ring. You should read the Lewis bio called Mamas Boy

Not true, as I said before it was the crappy guys who Lewis tended to struggle with because he wouldnt of been motivated to fight them, which is why he vacated the WBA belt, you cant really believe than Ruiz would beat Lewis?

Not true Manny said he was dissapointed that Lewis didnt fight Vitali again


Who did Lewis avoid according to you, please dont say Bowe.

i dont need to read Lewis mothers book... i followed all the news on a weekly basis in the U.K. fight rag Boxing News`.. i would never believe a single word that came out of Lewis mouth... he claimed McCall hit him with a lucky punch... He said when he got to his feet in the ring when levelled by Rahman, "Rahman can`t beat me"... two ****in howlers if ever i heard them... The fact remains that Lennox Lewis is the only undisputed champion in history to be stripped of every belt for refusing to fight the No1 contenders... so which ever way you want to try to avoid that or try spinning your way out of it, Lewis avoided those top contenders with the advice of Manny Stewart

General Zod
03-20-2010, 03:34 PM
i dont need to read Lewis mothers book... i followed all the news on a weekly basis in the U.K. fight rag Boxing News`.. i

The book is a biography about Lewis its not written by him or his mom, lol

would never believe a single word that came out of Lewis mouth... he claimed McCall hit him with a lucky punch... He said when he got to his feet in the ring when levelled by Rahman, "Rahman can`t beat me"... two ****in howlers if ever i heard them...
All fighters have excuses when they perform badly, seems strange for you to just call lewis up for doing this. "It was a bad white mans decision", was Ali reason for his loss to Frazier for example

The fact remains that Lennox Lewis is the only undisputed champion in history to be stripped of every belt for refusing to fight the No1 contenders... so which ever way you want to try to avoid that or try spinning your way out of it, Lewis avoided those top contenders with the advice of Manny Stewart
Are you really going to tell me that Ruiz and Byrd had a chance against Lewis?

sonnyboyx2
03-20-2010, 05:01 PM
The book is a biography about Lewis its not written by him or his mom, lol

All fighters have excuses when they perform badly, seems strange for you to just call lewis up for doing this. "It was a bad white mans decision", was Ali reason for his loss to Frazier for example

Are you really going to tell me that Ruiz and Byrd had a chance against Lewis?

i strongly believe that both Byrd & Ruiz would have beat Lewis... Both Byrd & Ruiz had fought their way to be No1 contenders and deserved their shot at the title but Lewis ducked them... Both Byrd & Ruiz have proved over time that they are both vastly superior fighters than both Rahman & McCall due to the opposition they have both beaten.. infact Ruiz won almost every round when he beat Rahman as did Byrd against both Holyfield & Tua..... Lewis fans are very quick to claim both Tyson & Bowe avoided Lewis even tho it is not true, yet when it is certain that Lewis ducked both Byrd & Ruiz those same Lewis fans like to try to belittle that fact and try to rubbish it... John Ruiz has had a far greater career than Lennox Lewis.. Lewis ducked Ruiz back in 1999 yet Ruiz is still a top contender and fighting for the title 11yrs later against David Haye.. the truth is that Ruiz is virtually undefeated in those 11yrs losing a couple of home-town split decisions over in Germany.. so dont try and belittle the abilities of John Ruiz who i strongly feel will regain the title against Haye... you may belittle him but Lennox Lewis knew exactly how ****in good he is as far back as 94

mickey malone
03-21-2010, 02:14 AM
i strongly believe that both Byrd & Ruiz would have beat Lewis... Both Byrd & Ruiz had fought their way to be No1 contenders and deserved their shot at the title but Lewis ducked them... Both Byrd & Ruiz have proved over time that they are both vastly superior fighters than both Rahman & McCall due to the opposition they have both beaten.. infact Ruiz won almost every round when he beat Rahman as did Byrd against both Holyfield & Tua..... Lewis fans are very quick to claim both Tyson & Bowe avoided Lewis even tho it is not true, yet when it is certain that Lewis ducked both Byrd & Ruiz those same Lewis fans like to try to belittle that fact and try to rubbish it... John Ruiz has had a far greater career than Lennox Lewis.. Lewis ducked Ruiz back in 1999 yet Ruiz is still a top contender and fighting for the title 11yrs later against David Haye.. the truth is that Ruiz is virtually undefeated in those 11yrs losing a couple of home-town split decisions over in Germany.. so dont try and belittle the abilities of John Ruiz who i strongly feel will regain the title against Haye... you may belittle him but Lennox Lewis knew exactly how ****in good he is as far back as 94
Lewis only ever showed one weakness, and that was the ability to lose concentration and get nailed with a big single shot..
Byrd and Ruiz have never thrown a big single shot in their lives.. Even the KD Ruiz scored over an old, exhausted Holyfield, clearly caught Evander off balance and wouldn't have troubled a prime Lewis.. But I do agree that Lewis ducked him..
I'm not so sure about Byrd though, did he ever show any desire to fight Lewis?
Byrd was lucky against Vitaly, and completely exposed as out of his depth by Wlad, so unless Lewis sprained his ankle or something, how's he gonna win?

sonnyboyx2
03-21-2010, 07:01 AM
Lewis only ever showed one weakness, and that was the ability to lose concentration and get nailed with a big single shot..
Byrd and Ruiz have never thrown a big single shot in their lives.. Even the KD Ruiz scored over an old, exhausted Holyfield, clearly caught Evander off balance and wouldn't have troubled a prime Lewis.. But I do agree that Lewis ducked him..
I'm not so sure about Byrd though, did he ever show any desire to fight Lewis?
Byrd was lucky against Vitaly, and completely exposed as out of his depth by Wlad, so unless Lewis sprained his ankle or something, how's he gonna win?

Did McCall or Rahman ever throw a "Big Single Shot" against any other opponent... When Lewis avenged his loss to Rahman with a 4th round KO it was "No Big Deal" because Rahman had been poleaxed in a similar if worse fashion before by Oleg Maskaev..

The Fact remains that Byrd & Ruiz was both No1 contenders and had legitimately fought their way to that privileged position in their trade.. For Lewis to say, "They are not worthy of a shot" is beyond comprehension.. if Lewis was the Champion he claimed to be he would have fought both and reigned supreme, but he ducked them because they was at the top of their game, styles make fights and both Ruiz & Byrd had a unique style that Lewis could not handle so he was not willing to take that chance.

Lewis boasted that he would "Have one brother for breakfast, the other brother for lunch"... he chose the least talented of the two and very nearly came unstuck, only very bad referee decision saved him his title.. He told the Boxing World that he would gladly give Vitali a rematch, yet he dragged out his title reign for 12 months unto only days before he was to be stripped of his last remaining belt and announced his retirement....

IMO Lennox Lewis was a `Coward` who refused to fight the No1 contenders or any fighters who was above Class C and at the top of their game, his whole career... he chose to fight guys who was mediocre and often white guys who was on steroids like Botha, Mavrovic, Morrison, Golota, Fortune, Tua, Vitali and fighters who was way past their best days in Bruno, Tyson, Holyfield, Tucker, Briggs, The rest of his opponents was hand-picked for harmlessness like, Grant, Butler, Jackson, Akinwande, Rahman... Lewis was a champion and contender throughout the period 92-2002 when guys like, Holmes, Foreman, Wlad, Jones Jr., Ruiz, Byrd, Moorer, Hide, Sanders, Tyson & Bowe all held titles and was at the top of their game... "Lewis avoided every single one of them"

General Zod
03-21-2010, 11:59 AM
IMO Lennox Lewis was a `Coward` who refused to fight the No1 contenders or any fighters who was above Class C and at the top of their game, his whole career..."
Are you talking about Lewis or Roy Jones?:rofl:

SLASHEh
03-21-2010, 12:05 PM
Lewis by most likely KO, he would be too big for Toney.

razzledaz 38
03-21-2010, 01:11 PM
lewis would be too much for toney physically

Snopkins
03-21-2010, 03:45 PM
Lewis should have fought Ruiz and byrd.The Holyfield that Lewis beat wasn't all that much worse than the version Ruiz deserved atleast two wins over and the version Chris byrd pitched close to a shutout victory over.

sonnyboyx2
03-21-2010, 04:58 PM
Are you talking about Lewis or Roy Jones?:rofl:

i am talking about Lewis... at least Jones fought Hopkins & Toney when they was at the peak.. Lewis fought Tyson when he was a shell of the once ATG fighter, 11yrs after Buster Douglas hammered him and 6yrs after Holyfield finished him off... Lewis even tried to take Tyson to court and force him to fight him again (pathetic).. Lewis got an unlucky draw against an old Holyfield and IMO clearly lost their rematch.. so the best fighter Lewis ever beat was his fortunate points victory over Ray Mercer... maybe you can tell me one of his career victories that was better..
Jones career was light-years better than Lewis`s

General Zod
03-21-2010, 06:34 PM
i am talking about Lewis... at least Jones fought Hopkins & Toney when they was at the peak.
Hopkins didnt reach his peak until years later, he was considered a nobody when Jones fought him. He was also ranked outside the Ring top ten as well
Toney for the next 10 yeaqrs would ask for a remtch which Jones never gave him

. Lewis fought Tyson when he was a shell of the once ATG fighter, 11yrs after Buster Douglas hammered him and 6yrs after Holyfield finished him off... Lewis even tried to take Tyson to court and force him to fight him again (pathetic).. Lewis got an unlucky draw against an old Holyfield and IMO clearly lost their rematch
Are you sayinmg that Lewis lost the first fight with Holyfield are you really that biased?

Jones career was light-years better than Lewis`s
No its not, his two best wins are a green Hopkins and a weight drained Toney, who he refused to give a rematch too.
His wins over Vitali K and Holyfeild are more than equal to Jones wins over Toney and Hopkins. you know Jones ducked Nunn and Tarver when they were his mandatories? He wanted nothing to do with McClellan, ducked Collins, turned down Eubank and Jirov.

bolopunchez
03-21-2010, 08:52 PM
Lewis would probably knock him out.

mickey malone
03-22-2010, 03:33 AM
Did McCall or Rahman ever throw a "Big Single Shot" against any other opponent... When Lewis avenged his loss to Rahman with a 4th round KO it was "No Big Deal" because Rahman had been poleaxed in a similar if worse fashion before by Oleg Maskaev..

The Fact remains that Byrd & Ruiz was both No1 contenders and had legitimately fought their way to that privileged position in their trade.. For Lewis to say, "They are not worthy of a shot" is beyond comprehension.. if Lewis was the Champion he claimed to be he would have fought both and reigned supreme, but he ducked them because they was at the top of their game, styles make fights and both Ruiz & Byrd had a unique style that Lewis could not handle so he was not willing to take that chance.

Lewis boasted that he would "Have one brother for breakfast, the other brother for lunch"... he chose the least talented of the two and very nearly came unstuck, only very bad referee decision saved him his title.. He told the Boxing World that he would gladly give Vitali a rematch, yet he dragged out his title reign for 12 months unto only days before he was to be stripped of his last remaining belt and announced his retirement....

IMO Lennox Lewis was a `Coward` who refused to fight the No1 contenders or any fighters who was above Class C and at the top of their game, his whole career... he chose to fight guys who was mediocre and often white guys who was on steroids like Botha, Mavrovic, Morrison, Golota, Fortune, Tua, Vitali and fighters who was way past their best days in Bruno, Tyson, Holyfield, Tucker, Briggs, The rest of his opponents was hand-picked for harmlessness like, Grant, Butler, Jackson, Akinwande, Rahman... Lewis was a champion and contender throughout the period 92-2002 when guys like, Holmes, Foreman, Wlad, Jones Jr., Ruiz, Byrd, Moorer, Hide, Sanders, Tyson & Bowe all held titles and was at the top of their game... "Lewis avoided every single one of them"
Didn't McCall starch Akinwande with one shot?

And hadn't Lewis already been KO'd twice by the time he beat Rahman?

No big deal, but if Lewis had been beaten a 2nd time by Rahman, you'd have to say Lewis wasn't up to the job.. Ali wasn't really up to the job against Norton.. Frazier certainly wasn't against Foreman and neither was Hearns vs Barkley.. However, I rate all 3 very highly, and I know you do to..

Class C Fighters?

I'll side with you on Justin Fortune.. He was a weight lifter and had no right to be in the same ring as Lewis..
A prime Akinwande was one of the most avoided heavyweights of the last 20 years.. Even as European Champ, no one would touch him.. At 6'7" with an awkward style, he was considered too much of a risk by most managers.. He was unbeaten, and had fought his way into contention, so he deserved a title shot..
Phil Jackson and Michael Grant turned out to have a glass Jaw's, but this wasn't discovered until they were exposed by Lewis.. They were both 20 odd KO's and 0, on a diet of jouirneymen, but couldn't the same be said about a lot of fighters b4 they got their shot?.. I can see your side of the argument though - they never beat anyone good enough to deserve that shot in the 1st place.. My argument here would be, is that it kept Lewis very active while greedy promoters & managers screwed up most of the big fights..
No one wanted the Grant job anyway, so Lewis just took it in his stride as a well managed, and easy no-hassle defense..
For example, after studying the facts over and over again, it was Suliaman and King that scuppered the original deal to fight Bowe..

Mavrovic is a very underrated fighter, and this is mainly because he retired from boxing shortly after losing a DC to Lewis for the title.. He deserved his shot too, he'd been European champion for about 2 years with 6 or 7 defenses.. He was easily as good, if not better than, Damiani, Coopman, Evangelista, Rodriguez etc.. And at least Lewis followed in the right traditions of being a champion by taking on the best in Europe, that also included, Bruno, Golota and Vitaly.. Credit to him for that, because the last 2 were on the list of 'rather not's' on a lot of manager's lists, especially after the mauling given to Bowe and Klitschko's demolition job on Hide..
Furthermore, that was a prime Vitali vs a 39 year old Lewis.. I'd say Lewis may well have been behind when the fight got stopped, but the bottom line is, At 39, he out-toughed Vitali at his best.. Had Klitschko not panicked, and continued to box, ie:- the way Ricky Hatton did against Jon Thaxton, he might have won, but he decided to go for broke and drew Lewis into an ugly slugfest, in which the prime fighter came off worst..

Lionel Butler absolutely poleaxed Tony Tubbs, leaving him unconscious for 10 minutes..
Some people compared him to Tyson in physique, but i'd say he was more like Toney, and dispells some of the myth that Lewis struggled against smaller fighters or indeed, would be beaten by James Toney..

What's wrong with Botha?.. I won't get into the steroids argument, because I don't regard them as performance enhancing.. But unless your intention is to gain weight, which surely wouldn't be the case in Botha's case, I don't think there worth bringing into the argument (Holy? Tyson? Jones? Toney?)
Francois, 'bless him' gets far too much stick on these forums.. This is the same Francois who was pasting Mike Tyson for 5 rounds and went toe to toe with avoided puncher, Michael Moorer in a very exciting contest (I think Moorer may have stopped him on his feet in the last round) but nevertheless, he was the best HW in South Africa & would definitely have lasted the distance with Johnny Ruiz and Chris Byrd.. I'd also say he was a lot more worthy of a shot than fellow contryman and semi retired golfer, Corey Sanders, the occasionaly dangerous southpaw puncher, with low arms, zero defense and a china chin..
Wasn't he KTFO with a single shot by Rahman?..

Tua was the best from down under, and as a mark of how avoided he's been, Lewis was his one and only shot at a title.. He's been in with 5 title holders and KO'd 3 of them..
It could be argued that Holyfield and Tyson wanted none of him..
Morrison took on and beat Foreman and Ruddock.. He was in the top 10 for at least 9 years with one of the finest left hooks you'll ever see, so to be classified as Class C is very harsh to say the least..

Foreman made no secret of the fact he didn't want to engage Lewis, and went looking for a fight with Tyson, another classic that was ruined by King and co..
All said, Lewis had a good championship resume..

How's about Byrd or Ruiz verses:- Ruddock, Moorer, Tyson, Akinwande, McCall, Mercer, Morrison, Vitaly, Hide, Sanders or Botha?

sonnyboyx2
03-22-2010, 05:37 AM
Didn't McCall starch Akinwande with one shot?

And hadn't Lewis already been KO'd twice by the time he beat Rahman?

No big deal, but if Lewis had been beaten a 2nd time by Rahman, you'd have to say Lewis wasn't up to the job.. Ali wasn't really up to the job against Norton.. Frazier certainly wasn't against Foreman and neither was Hearns vs Barkley.. However, I rate all 3 very highly, and I know you do to..

Class C Fighters?

I'll side with you on Justin Fortune.. He was a weight lifter and had no right to be in the same ring as Lewis..
A prime Akinwande was one of the most avoided heavyweights of the last 20 years.. Even as European Champ, no one would touch him.. At 6'7" with an awkward style, he was considered too much of a risk by most managers.. He was unbeaten, and had fought his way into contention, so he deserved a title shot..
Phil Jackson and Michael Grant turned out to have a glass Jaw's, but this wasn't discovered until they were exposed by Lewis.. They were both 20 odd KO's and 0, on a diet of jouirneymen, but couldn't the same be said about a lot of fighters b4 they got their shot?.. I can see your side of the argument though - they never beat anyone good enough to deserve that shot in the 1st place.. My argument here would be, is that it kept Lewis very active while greedy promoters & managers screwed up most of the big fights..
No one wanted the Grant job anyway, so Lewis just took it in his stride as a well managed, and easy no-hassle defense..
For example, after studying the facts over and over again, it was Suliaman and King that scuppered the original deal to fight Bowe..

Mavrovic is a very underrated fighter, and this is mainly because he retired from boxing shortly after losing a DC to Lewis for the title.. He deserved his shot too, he'd been European champion for about 2 years with 6 or 7 defenses.. He was easily as good, if not better than, Damiani, Coopman, Evangelista, Rodriguez etc.. And at least Lewis followed in the right traditions of being a champion by taking on the best in Europe, that also included, Bruno, Golota and Vitaly.. Credit to him for that, because the last 2 were on the list of 'rather not's' on a lot of manager's lists, especially after the mauling given to Bowe and Klitschko's demolition job on Hide..
Furthermore, that was a prime Vitali vs a 39 year old Lewis.. I'd say Lewis may well have been behind when the fight got stopped, but the bottom line is, At 39, he out-toughed Vitali at his best.. Had Klitschko not panicked, and continued to box, ie:- the way Ricky Hatton did against Jon Thaxton, he might have won, but he decided to go for broke and drew Lewis into an ugly slugfest, in which the prime fighter came off worst..

Lionel Butler absolutely poleaxed Tony Tubbs, leaving him unconscious for 10 minutes..
Some people compared him to Tyson in physique, but i'd say he was more like Toney, and dispells some of the myth that Lewis struggled against smaller fighters or indeed, would be beaten by James Toney..

What's wrong with Botha?.. I won't get into the steroids argument, because I don't regard them as performance enhancing.. But unless your intention is to gain weight, which surely wouldn't be the case in Botha's case, I don't think there worth bringing into the argument (Holy? Tyson? Jones? Toney?)
Francois, 'bless him' gets far too much stick on these forums.. This is the same Francois who was pasting Mike Tyson for 5 rounds and went toe to toe with avoided puncher, Michael Moorer in a very exciting contest (I think Moorer may have stopped him on his feet in the last round) but nevertheless, he was the best HW in South Africa & would definitely have lasted the distance with Johnny Ruiz and Chris Byrd.. I'd also say he was a lot more worthy of a shot than fellow contryman and semi retired golfer, Corey Sanders, the occasionaly dangerous southpaw puncher, with low arms, zero defense and a china chin..
Wasn't he KTFO with a single shot by Rahman?..

Tua was the best from down under, and as a mark of how avoided he's been, Lewis was his one and only shot at a title.. He's been in with 5 title holders and KO'd 3 of them..
It could be argued that Holyfield and Tyson wanted none of him..
Morrison took on and beat Foreman and Ruddock.. He was in the top 10 for at least 9 years with one of the finest left hooks you'll ever see, so to be classified as Class C is very harsh to say the least..

Foreman made no secret of the fact he didn't want to engage Lewis, and went looking for a fight with Tyson, another classic that was ruined by King and co..
All said, Lewis had a good championship resume..

How's about Byrd or Ruiz verses:- Ruddock, Moorer, Tyson, Akinwande, McCall, Mercer, Morrison, Vitaly, Hide, Sanders or Botha?

Mickey, your story is easy to write buddy...

Tua fought 5 guys who held a version of the title.. but you are not telling the truth there, Tua lost virtually every round to Lewis & Byrd, he was behind on the scorecards when he stopped Maskaev, He beat a `Shot` Moorer and had to climb off the floor to get a draw with Hasim Rahman who i consider the worst champion in history.. He cold****ed Ruiz when he was a novice with the first punch of the fight which could happen to anyone... To claim Tyson & Holyfield avoided Tua is laughable, Tua was often used as a sparring partner by both of them, i can recall reading an article a few years back where Tua claimed Tyson was the hardest puncher in the world..

Lionel Butler lost more fights than he won he was 22-10 when he got a shot at Lewis - c`mon

Akinwande was a bum who had been beaten by Shultz the German and fought no-one else of worth unto hand-picked by Lewis... infact i thought Lewis was as guilty of holding as Akinwande was, Lewis was definately floored by Akinwande but the terrible referee Mills Lane never took up a count..

i agree Mavrovic was half-decent and Lewis struggled badly with him... That was Lewis true level that night.

i could continue about Botha, Sanders etc.. but it does not change the fact that Lewis avoided fighting Ruiz & Byrd and you ask would Ruiz & Byrd beat those guys... yes

mickey malone
03-22-2010, 07:43 AM
Mickey, your story is easy to write buddy...

Tua fought 5 guys who held a version of the title.. but you are not telling the truth there, Tua lost virtually every round to Lewis & Byrd, he was behind on the scorecards when he stopped Maskaev, He beat a `Shot` Moorer and had to climb off the floor to get a draw with Hasim Rahman who i consider the worst champion in history.. He cold****ed Ruiz when he was a novice with the first punch of the fight which could happen to anyone... To claim Tyson & Holyfield avoided Tua is laughable, Tua was often used as a sparring partner by both of them, i can recall reading an article a few years back where Tua claimed Tyson was the hardest puncher in the world..

Lionel Butler lost more fights than he won he was 22-10 when he got a shot at Lewis - c`mon

Akinwande was a bum who had been beaten by Shultz the German and fought no-one else of worth unto hand-picked by Lewis... infact i thought Lewis was as guilty of holding as Akinwande was, Lewis was definately floored by Akinwande but the terrible referee Mills Lane never took up a count..

i agree Mavrovic was half-decent and Lewis struggled badly with him... That was Lewis true level that night.

i could continue about Botha, Sanders etc.. but it does not change the fact that Lewis avoided fighting Ruiz & Byrd and you ask would Ruiz & Byrd beat those guys... yes
The truth is always easy to write..

Well at least you realize that Sanders doesn't really belong in this argument, and TBH neither does Byrd and Ruiz.. I mean, what did they do to get their shots?

Before Byrd got his tilt at Vitaly, he'd beaten Ross Puritty, John Sargent, Jose Ribalta, Val Smith and was stopped in 5 by Ibeabuchi..
Ruiz was on an even more pathetic roll, with victories over Jerry Ballard, Mario Cawley, Fernely Feliz and Thomas Williams leading up to his 1st shot at Holyfield - talk about Class C fighters!.. Lewis was right not to defend against them..
Compare this to Akinwande, who never lost to Axel Schultz (Draw) was an undefeated European champ, and had beaten Tony Tucker, Alex Zolkin, Jeremy Williams and Scott Welch, which are better credentials than either Byrd or Ruiz had at the time..

Holyfield avoiding Tua is no more laughable than Lewis avoiding any of the fighters you claim he avoided.. What is laughable, is that Tua one of the hardest punchers in history only fought for the title once, and that was against Lewis.. Ruiz has had more than a decade to prove that he was cold ****ed by Tua, but for some reason has never bothered..

sonnyboyx2
03-22-2010, 08:13 AM
The truth is always easy to write..

Well at least you realize that Sanders doesn't really belong in this argument, and TBH neither does Byrd and Ruiz.. I mean, what did they do to get their shots?

Before Byrd got his tilt at Vitaly, he'd beaten Ross Puritty, John Sargent, Jose Ribalta, Val Smith and was stopped in 5 by Ibeabuchi..
Ruiz was on an even more pathetic roll, with victories over Jerry Ballard, Mario Cawley, Fernely Feliz and Thomas Williams leading up to his 1st shot at Holyfield - talk about Class C fighters!.. Lewis was right not to defend against them..
Compare this to Akinwande, who never lost to Axel Schultz (Draw) was an undefeated European champ, and had beaten Tony Tucker, Alex Zolkin, Jeremy Williams and Scott Welch, which are better credentials than either Byrd or Ruiz had at the time..

Holyfield avoiding Tua is no more laughable than Lewis avoiding any of the fighters you claim he avoided.. What is laughable, is that Tua one of the hardest punchers in history only fought for the title once, and that was against Lewis.. Ruiz has had more than a decade to prove that he was cold ****ed by Tua, but for some reason has never bothered..

so you are in agreement that if a champion does not fancy fighting the No1 contender then he should just tell them to **** off... we need not have any ratings in that case..

it really does grate on me when David Tua is called "one of the hardest punchers in history".. Take away his KO of John Ruiz whom he caught cold, and he has KOd no0one of worth... did he KO Chris Byrd or Lennox Lewis... i will always stick to my theory that Lou Duva knew that Tua was `chinny` so kept him away from top level fighters who could punch.. Tua was pounded by Ibeabuchi and staggered at the bell in round 10 yet Ibeabuchi was an unknown novice...sorry but i dont rate him higher than a class c fighter, his boxing ability was very poor... Cory Sanders i would take to KO Tua, Sanders was a 6ft 5ins southpaw puncher, i could not see Tua beat him at any aspect of the game, Tua would need to win by KO but i see Sanders KOing him first, like he did Wlad Klitschko when he was in semi-retirement.

sonnyboyx2
03-22-2010, 08:43 AM
Hopkins didnt reach his peak until years later, he was considered a nobody when Jones fought him. He was also ranked outside the Ring top ten as well
Toney for the next 10 yeaqrs would ask for a remtch which Jones never gave him

Are you sayinmg that Lewis lost the first fight with Holyfield are you really that biased?

No its not, his two best wins are a green Hopkins and a weight drained Toney, who he refused to give a rematch too.
His wins over Vitali K and Holyfeild are more than equal to Jones wins over Toney and Hopkins. you know Jones ducked Nunn and Tarver when they were his mandatories? He wanted nothing to do with McClellan, ducked Collins, turned down Eubank and Jirov.

Hopkins was a good fighter when Jones beat him, he was on a level exactly the same as Jones himself was, infact Hopkins had been a pro 12 months longer than Jones had.. i suppose in your opinion BHop was same as Lewis "Like fine wine" and never reached their peak unto they was nearly 40yrs old which is stupid talk.

Toney was never in a position to challenge Jones after Jones beat him.. Toney campaigned at Cruiserweight..

when did i say Lewis lost his first fight with Holyfield, i said "Lewis fought to an "unlucky draw" with Holyfield.. yet IMO Lewis clearly lost the 2nd Holyfield fight as most ringside reporters also thought.

Lewis victories over Vitali & Holyfield are in no way as good as anything Jones achieved.. Lewis was very fortunate to come away with a victory from his fight with Vitali, he was behind on all scorecards and on his way to being KOd within the next 2rds.. it is my opinion that Lewis deliberatly headbutted Vitali that opened up the Germans cuts... 42 of 48 ringside reporters had Holyfield winning his rematch with Lewis... hardly 2 impressive wins are they...

Jones beat a long list of fighters who went on to be world champions or who had been world champion.. Ruiz, McCallum, Griffith, Johnson, Gonzales, Pazienza, Castro, Hopkins, Toney, Malinga, Vaca, Hill, Delvalle, Woods, Tarver, Trinidad... i agree that they was all over matched when they fought Jones, but this topic is not about Jones, its about Toney v Lewis

General Zod
03-22-2010, 11:32 AM
Hopkins was a good fighter when Jones beat him, he was on a level exactly the same as Jones himself was, infact Hopkins had been a pro 12 months longer than Jones had.. i suppose in your opinion BHop was same as Lewis "Like fine wine" and never reached their peak unto they was nearly 40yrs old which is stupid talk.
Hopkins wasnt in his prime at the time he wouldnt reach his prime until 1997-07-20 when he fought Glen Johnson, Hopkins is also overrated he has lost to all the best fighters he ever faced who were: Jones, Calzaghe and Taylor*2

Toney was never in a position to challenge Jones after Jones beat him.. Toney campaigned at Cruiserweight..
Toney said repeatedly that he was willing to move back down to LHW if Jones was willing to give him a fight, HBO also wanted a rematch.

when did i say Lewis lost his first fight with Holyfield, i said "Lewis fought to an "unlucky draw" with Holyfield..
Why dont you just say that, Lewis clearly won that fight and was robbed?


Lewis victories over Vitali & Holyfield are in no way as good as anything Jones achieved
Jones two best wins are Toney and Hopkins, Lewis best wins are over Holyfiled and Vitali K, they are more than equivalent you are also going to have to take into account that Jones has been a journeyman for the last 7 years of his career.

Jones beat a long list of fighters who went on to be world champions or who had been world champion.. Ruiz, McCallum, Griffith, Johnson, Gonzales, Pazienza, Castro, Hopkins, Toney, Malinga, Vaca, Hill, Delvalle, Woods, Tarver, Trinidad... i agree that they was all over matched when they fought Jones, but this topic is not about Jones, its about Toney v Lewis
You cant be serios with that list, If I said a similar thing about Lewis opponents you would start raving.

Jones also ducked his mandatorys like Lewis as well, can I assume you are now going to hate on Jones?
Jones also did his best to avoid WBC mandatory obligations, on two occasions, against Nunn. While Nunn was faded from his peak Middleweight championship form, he would still have been a sterner test than Grant or Frazier. Jones once was quoted to the affect that he didnít want to have to be the guy Nunn got up for after a series of lackadaisical showings.

A written, and granted, request for Tarver to engage in an eliminator for a title shot in 2000 (resulting in Tarverís first loss to Harding) can be looked at a number of ways
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=21561

sonnyboyx2
03-22-2010, 12:13 PM
Hopkins wasnt in his prime at the time he wouldnt reach his prime until 1997-07-20 when he fought Glen Johnson, Hopkins is also overrated he has lost to all the best fighters he ever faced who were: Jones, Calzaghe and Taylor*2

Toney said repeatedly that he was willing to move back down to LHW if Jones was willing to give him a fight, HBO also wanted a rematch.

Why dont you just say that, Lewis clearly won that fight and was robbed?


Jones two best wins are Toney and Hopkins, Lewis best wins are over Holyfiled and Vitali K, they are more than equivalent you are also going to have to take into account that Jones has been a journeyman for the last 7 years of his career.

You cant be serios with that list, If I said a similar thing about Lewis opponents you would start raving.

Jones also ducked his mandatorys like Lewis as well, can I assume you are now going to hate on Jones?



http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=21561

Jones was not in HIS prime when he fought and beat BHop... why would BHop have to be in his prime?

if Toney said what you claim that he would move down to Light-Heavy to fight Jones if Jones gave him a shot.. then i am cool with that.. just like i am cool that Toney said he would move up to heavyweight and KO Lennox Lewis if Lewis gave him a title shot.

i thought Lewis was unfortunate not to get the decision by 7-5rds but i can see how the judges had it a draw... i had Holyfield winning their 2nd fight 7-5rds

Jones best two victories are vastly better than Lewis 2 best victories.. IMO Lewis lost to Holyfield, it is also the opinion of most at ringside..

What is serious about that list of Jones opponents is that they ALL held World Titles just like i pointed out... unlike Lewis opponents, Butler, Jackson, Golota, Grant, Akinwande, Mavrovic, Fortune, Tua, Ruddock none of whom deserved a title fight.

One thing certain is that Roy Jones will forever be ranked as vastly greater than Lennox Lewis

General Zod
03-22-2010, 12:41 PM
Jones was not in HIS prime when he fought and beat BHop... why would BHop have to be in his prime?
Jones was obviously closer to his prime than Hopkins, he would go on to dominate James Toney the next year, while Hopkins would have to resort to headbutting in 95 to get a undeserved draw against a journeyman called Sercundo Mercado. His when over Hopkins is also a win thet became great only after Hopkins MW title reign started. The guys to beat at MW were Jackson and McClellan not Hopkins.

if Toney said what you claim that he would move down to Light-Heavy to fight Jones if Jones gave him a shot.. then i am cool with that.. just like i am cool that Toney said he would move up to heavyweight and KO Lennox Lewis if Lewis gave him a title shot.
This logic makes no sense, Toney said that he wasn't 100% when he fought Jones and wanted a chance to redeem himself. HBO also wanted the fight because the first fight had been so succesfull(300k ppv)
Toney had no history with Lewis nor was there any demand from HBO for the fight, so bad comparison.

i thought Lewis was unfortunate not to get the decision by 7-5rds but i can see how the judges had it a draw
lol at this its was a wide sided affair, which why there was such a uproar about it.

Jones best two victories are vastly better than Lewis 2 best victories.. IMO Lewis lost to Holyfield, it is also the opinion of most at ringside..
Lewis clearly won his first fight with Holyfield. Also Vitali K and Holyfield are more accomplished than Toney and Hopkins. Toney has thrown away 13 years of his career due to huis eating problem and lost to guys he had no business losing to like Thadazi and Tiberi. Hopkins best wins are over a WW Tito and a average Tarver.

What is serious about that list of Jones opponents is that they ALL held World Titles just like i pointed out... unlike Lewis opponents, Butler, Jackson, Golota, Grant, Akinwande, Mavrovic, Fortune, Tua, Ruddock none of whom deserved a title fight.
lol
Vinny paz had no business fighting at smw
Hill was past prime and coming off a one sided loss to Dairus M
McCallum was 40 years old and one fight away from retirement
etc etc

One thing certain is that Roy Jones will forever be ranked as vastly greater than Lennox Lewis
Nope, Lewis will always be ranked higher than Jones look at all the guys Jones somehow manged to miss
MW: McClellan, Jackson
SMW: Eubank, Benn, Liles, Nunn, Rociganni, Collins
LHW: Nunn, Rochiaganni, Toney II
CW: Jirov
HW: Vitali K who was his mandatory for Jones WBA belt

He has also lost to : Tarver*2,Johnson, Griffin, Calzaghe and Danny Green

Snopkins
03-22-2010, 02:12 PM
Hopkins was rated within Ring magazines top ten middleweight ratings.His struggle against Mercado had everything to do with the altitude rather than Mercado.They rematched immediately and Hopkins put out arguably the finest performance of his career and destroyed Mercado.

sonnyboyx2
03-22-2010, 02:15 PM
Jones was obviously closer to his prime than Hopkins, he would go on to dominate James Toney the next year, while Hopkins would have to resort to headbutting in 95 to get a undeserved draw against a journeyman called Sercundo Mercado. His when over Hopkins is also a win thet became great only after Hopkins MW title reign started. The guys to beat at MW were Jackson and McClellan not Hopkins.

This logic makes no sense, Toney said that he wasn't 100% when he fought Jones and wanted a chance to redeem himself. HBO also wanted the fight because the first fight had been so succesfull(300k ppv)
Toney had no history with Lewis nor was there any demand from HBO for the fight, so bad comparison.

lol at this its was a wide sided affair, which why there was such a uproar about it.

Lewis clearly won his first fight with Holyfield. Also Vitali K and Holyfield are more accomplished than Toney and Hopkins. Toney has thrown away 13 years of his career due to huis eating problem and lost to guys he had no business losing to like Thadazi and Tiberi. Hopkins best wins are over a WW Tito and a average Tarver.

lol
Vinny paz had no business fighting at smw
Hill was past prime and coming off a one sided loss to Dairus M
McCallum was 40 years old and one fight away from retirement
etc etc

Nope, Lewis will always be ranked higher than Jones look at all the guys Jones somehow manged to miss
MW: McClellan, Jackson
SMW: Eubank, Benn, Liles, Nunn, Rociganni, Collins
LHW: Nunn, Rochiaganni, Toney II
CW: Jirov
HW: Vitali K who was his mandatory for Jones WBA belt

He has also lost to : Tarver*2,Johnson, Griffin, Calzaghe and Danny Green

you are a serious nuthugger mate... you are wrong on everything you say... To claim that Lennox Lewis will be ranked as a greater fighter than Roy Jones is deluding yourself... put yourself a poll up on this forum asking who will be remembered as the greater fighter and Jones will get 20 times more votes than Lewis will..

you are obviously a BHop hater...BHop had been a pro longer than Jones so he was obviously further away from being in his prime...You claim BHop resorted to headbutting, yet you never questioned it when i claimed Lennox Lewis deliberatly headbutted Vitali opening up his cut......

Jones had bigger fish to go after than Jackson or McClellan in 94-95 he moved to super-middle and beat James Toney.. Jones was a 3/1 dog on fightnight...Jackson & McClellan was not rated higher than Toney in the P4P lists.. Toney was No2

Toney often called for a fight with Lewis, he called Lewis "nothing but a big fairy"...Toney said after the Lewis vs Tua fight that the fight was pathetic because both fighters was scared of eachother, he said he would whoop Lewis ass"

Lewis win over Vitali was flawed, to claim otherwise is diluding yourself... Holyfield was robbed in his 2nd fight with Lewis even though he was clearly on the slide and years past his best..

Toney has had a brilliant career.. Toney is one of the greatest fighters who ever lived yet you claim he wasted 13yrs of his career, i can recall no other former middleweight champion who had as much success in the higher weight divisions than James Toney..

you claim Hopkins best wins was over Trinidad & Tarver, yet he also beat DeLaHoya, Pavlik, Johnson and many other good fighters.... you are a Hater of BHop.

Pazienza, Hill & McCallum was all very good fighters, far far better than Lionel Butler, Phil Jackson, Justine Fortune, Zelko Mavrovic, Frans Botha, Michael Grant, Henry Akinwande, Hasim Rahman who Lewis chose to fight instead of fighting the top contenders and fighters who was at the top of their game...

Shazam!
03-22-2010, 02:37 PM
I see James Toney as a miniature Mike Tyson and we all know what happened to Mike Tyson. Up until he fought Lewis, Tyson had never been dominated in a fight. In fact he was still KO'ing good opposition and had only ever lost to Holyfield (in a close fight) and Buster Douglas (also a close fight with a disputable count). And Tyson himself discarded any idea that he could have beaten Lewis, even in his prime. So I'm gonna have to go for a quick KO for Lewis on this one (tries to hold back the laughter at the thought of them ever fighting).

ďThereís no way I could ever beat him. Heís just too big and too strong. Iím just glad he didnít kill me. Heís a magnificent fighter.Ē -A drug-free, clear speaking Mike Tyson talking about Lennox Lewis immediately after their fight.

Lewis: 41 votes, Tony: 9 votes .....an American message board.

Says it all.

But what's this I see. Someone suggesting that Lennox Lewis ducked James Toney and Chris Byrd? Oh ****, really? Pardon me for not taking that seriously!

Hang on.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!

That's better.

mickey malone
03-22-2010, 02:45 PM
so you are in agreement that if a champion does not fancy fighting the No1 contender then he should just tell them to **** off... we need not have any ratings in that case..

it really does grate on me when David Tua is called "one of the hardest punchers in history".. Take away his KO of John Ruiz whom he caught cold, and he has KOd no0one of worth... did he KO Chris Byrd or Lennox Lewis... i will always stick to my theory that Lou Duva knew that Tua was `chinny` so kept him away from top level fighters who could punch.. Tua was pounded by Ibeabuchi and staggered at the bell in round 10 yet Ibeabuchi was an unknown novice...sorry but i dont rate him higher than a class c fighter, his boxing ability was very poor... Cory Sanders i would take to KO Tua, Sanders was a 6ft 5ins southpaw puncher, i could not see Tua beat him at any aspect of the game, Tua would need to win by KO but i see Sanders KOing him first, like he did Wlad Klitschko when he was in semi-retirement.
Byrd was only made no1 contender by the IBF and this was after beating Tua in a final eliminator.. Lewis had already agreed to fight Mike Tyson in a big money fight.. After beating Tyson, Lewis vacated the IBF belt to defend against the WBC's no1, Vitaly Klitschko.. Byrd then beat Holyfield to claim the vacant belt..
Agreed, he had time to fit in a defense against Byrd, but he'd been threatening retirement and didn't need the money.. I won't argue that at 38 years old, he probably regarded Byrd as too big a risk in getting to Vitaly, who let's face it, was the far bigger scalp to go out on..

It seems you rate Sanders in the same way that I rate Tua.. And rightly so, because if Sanders could win a world title by getting lucky then so could Tua.. True, Sanders was a massive puncher with 18 1st round KO's, but he was always a bit fragile in the chin department.. He was knocked cold by Nate Tubbs who Tua took care of inside 2 rounds..
Rahman sparked Sanders, and Vitaly pasted him.. Too much is also looked into Tua's draw with Rahman.. When they fought prime for prime, Tua stopped him in 10..
I don't agree with your theory that Tua's chinny.. To get wobbled by Ibeabuchi in the last round doesn't mean to say he's weak around the gills.. You may regard Ike as a novice fighter but he was easily good enough to KO Byrd in only his 10th fight, so I think that says something about Tua's chin being pretty good.. As for a match with Sanders, well Tua's got a much better chin than Wlad, so that's where my money would be..

sonnyboyx2
03-22-2010, 02:57 PM
I see James Toney as a miniature Mike Tyson and we all know what happened to Mike Tyson. Up until he fought Lewis, Tyson had never been dominated in a fight. In fact he was still KO'ing good opposition and had only ever lost to Holyfield (in a close fight) and Buster Douglas (also a close fight with a disputable count). And Tyson himself discarded any idea that he could have beaten Lewis, even in his prime. So I'm gonna have to go for a quick KO for Lewis on this one (tries to hold back the laughter at the thought of them ever fighting).

ďThereís no way I could ever beat him. Heís just too big and too strong. Iím just glad he didnít kill me. Heís a magnificent fighter.Ē -A drug-free, clear speaking Mike Tyson talking about Lennox Lewis immediately after their fight.

Lewis: 41 votes, Tony: 9 votes .....an American message board.

Says it all.

But what's this I see. Someone suggesting that Lennox Lewis ducked James Toney and Chris Byrd? Oh ****, really? Pardon me for not taking that seriously!

Hang on.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!

That's better.

Douglas beat Tyson 11yrs before he fought Lewis, Holyfield beat Tyson 6yrs beat Tyson lost to Lewis, Tyson served at least 3 prison sentences in that period... Tyson was on tranquilizers when losing to Lewis.. both Danny Williams & Kevin McBride both beat Tyson far more convincingly than what Lewis did... Lewis seen Tyson weighing 285lbs four months after he beat Brian Neilson in Sweden, so he offered him $20 million giving him 8 weeks to get ready for the fight which Tyson spent in the sauna (8 weeks sitting in a sauna) just so that he looked physically respectable on fight-night.. Tyson was drained as it showed in the fight, having nothing left midway through the opening round... in an interview for HBO after the fight Tyson said, "Lennox knew that if i was in shape i would have kicked his ass".... but its old news because Danny Williams & Kevin McBride showed that Tyson was a completely washed-up fighter after the Holyfield (2) fight... yet Lewis nuthuggers like to claim it was a PRIME Tyson who Lewis fought & a PRIME Holyfield who Lewis fought.. yet true boxing fans know that Lewis had oppotunities to fight both Tyson & Holyfield along with Bowe during the 1990s and ran scared of them...Like what James Toney called Lewis "nothing but a big *****"...Jeremy Williams was a sparring partner for Lewis and he called Lewis " a big *****".. Williams also said, he had been in training camp with Riddick Bowe and that Bowe would have murdered Lewis.... go watch the BBC documentary on Lewis aired the night of Lewis vs Rahman..

Nothing do i enjoy better than coming onto boxing websites and telling it like it really was to Lewis nuthuggers ... The truth hurts!

Shazam!
03-22-2010, 03:06 PM
ďThereís no way I could ever beat him. Heís just too big and too strong. Iím just glad he didnít kill me. Heís a magnificent fighter.Ē -A drug-free, clear speaking Mike Tyson talking about Lennox Lewis immediately after their fight.

I don't know about the 'other' Tyson interview you're referring to, sonnybody. I only know this one, which the entire world saw and listened to.

You know, the one where Tyson says 'THERE'S NO WAY I COULD EVER BEAT HIM'.

It's the word, isn't it? 'Ever'.

Shazam!
03-22-2010, 03:08 PM
Nothing do i enjoy better than coming onto boxing websites and telling it like it really was to Lewis nuthuggers ... The truth hurts!

Oh, we can see that ;-) Don't worry.

...and you're right, the truth does hurt. Especially when it comes straight out of Mike Tyson's mouth.

'THERE'S NO WAY I COULD EVER BEAT HIM.'

You're clear evidence that it hurts!

sonnyboyx2
03-22-2010, 04:36 PM
Oh, we can see that ;-) Don't worry.

...and you're right, the truth does hurt. Especially when it comes straight out of Mike Tyson's mouth.

'THERE'S NO WAY I COULD EVER BEAT HIM.'

You're clear evidence that it hurts!

cant say i ever heard Tyson say that.. the only time i can recall tyson talking about Lewis was him saying, "he wanted to eat his children"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hREt7nfwexw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ebFvTEfC8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYT0QLW0-7s

Shazam!
03-22-2010, 05:48 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/specials/lewis_v_tyson_fight/2036717.stm

Tyson said it in the post match interview.

It's also quoted here, in BBC News Report. The most reputable and popular website in the world.

I put it in my sig, along with Foreman's and Frazier's comments...just so that, in the future, when you're telling me how insignificant my opinion of Lewis is, that you're also saying the same things about these guys.

Shazam!
03-22-2010, 05:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqhaNUVCip8

Here's the Interview with Tyson on youtube. He also talks about how Lennox is a 'constimate' (not a real word but you can see what he means) fighter, too fast, too strong...and that he didn't fight dirty like he did against Holyfield because Lennox is not a dirty fighter (something that Holyfield is) and Tyson alludes to this in the interview.

Eating his children? Haha. Behave. Meaningless promotion.

sonnyboyx2
03-23-2010, 04:43 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/specials/lewis_v_tyson_fight/2036717.stm

Tyson said it in the post match interview.

It's also quoted here, in BBC News Report. The most reputable and popular website in the world.

I put it in my sig, along with Foreman's and Frazier's comments...just so that, in the future, when you're telling me how insignificant my opinion of Lewis is, that you're also saying the same things about these guys.

they are all brian-damaged says Hellboy

Shazam!
03-23-2010, 07:14 AM
they are all brian-damaged says Hellboy

Damn, this Brian guy sounds tough.

I could also say that Frazier, Foreman, Tyson and Steward all American yet still say Lewis is ATG. I would have also quoted the most well-known boxing journos from here in England like Steve Bunce, Barry Mcguigan, Jim Watt, Nicky Piper, Darke, McCrory etc but you'd probably say they were biased (even though only three of those guys are actually English), right? *YAWN* So that's why I quoted a who's who of American boxing legends ;-)

It really isn't difficult to defend Lewis when you've got all those people on your side. I suppose all the Lewis 'nuthuggers' are brain-damaged too, right? Course they are mate ;-)

Shazam!
03-23-2010, 07:16 AM
speaking of brain-damage...

43-9 Lewis

there seem to be quite a few of them voting in this thread, eh.

sonnyboyx2
03-23-2010, 07:36 AM
Lewis was a big pansy.. he was on a par with Frank Bruno

The_Demon
03-23-2010, 08:25 AM
Lewis was a big pansy.. he was on a par with Frank Bruno

no wonder you cant get out of the red

your a ****ing idiot

stupid pathetic hater

The_Demon
03-23-2010, 08:27 AM
speaking of brain-damage...

43-9 Lewis

there seem to be quite a few of them voting in this thread, eh.

ignore the kid

their are plenty of good posters on here hes in the minority

you get a few pathetic haters like him but they are good for a laugh i suppose

sonnyboyx2
03-23-2010, 10:55 AM
no wonder you cant get out of the red

your a ****ing idiot

stupid pathetic hater

Nope... just someone who knows what he is talking about

mickey malone
03-23-2010, 11:30 AM
Nope... just someone who knows what he is talking about
So, are you still of the opinion that Lewis would be an easy night's work for a corpulant Toney, and that Lewis would be KO'd around the 6th?

sonnyboyx2
03-23-2010, 12:01 PM
So, are you still of the opinion that Lewis would be an easy night's work for a corpulant Toney, and that Lewis would be KO'd around the 6th?

yes, i see no reason why i should change my opinion.. Tell me one fighter who Lewis has fought who would be a greater fighter in any aspect of the sport of Boxing than James Toney, dont forget that James Toney has never ever been KOd in over 70 fights, he has only ever been on the floor once and got up to win... Toney took the best punches that Hasim Rahman had to hit him with, which proves that Toney had the better whiskers between him and Lewis... Toney KOd Holyfield something Lewis never came near to doing in 24rds.... Yes i go for Toney KO6

sonnyboyx2
03-23-2010, 12:03 PM
all who go for Lewis to win by KO are going by the theory, "My dad is bigger than your dad"...size means nothing in this sport, its boxing ability that counts as well as the ability to take a punch"... Toney wins KO6

sonnyboyx2
03-23-2010, 12:27 PM
So, are you still of the opinion that Lewis would be an easy night's work for a corpulant Toney, and that Lewis would be KO'd around the 6th?

The Topic question does not say a corpulent Toney vs prime Lewis... it says Toney vs Prime Lewis!

mickey malone
03-23-2010, 02:20 PM
The Topic question does not say a corpulent Toney vs prime Lewis... it says Toney vs Prime Lewis!
Only stating the truth.. Corpulent = Well fed = Toney at HW

So other than the fact Toney is an ATG, what has he done at HW to suggest he could KO a Prime Lewis in 6 rounds?.. He met his match in Sam Peter.. Does this mean you'd pick Peter over Lewis too?

sonnyboyx2
03-23-2010, 02:34 PM
yes, i see no reason why i should change my opinion.. Tell me one fighter who Lewis has fought who would be a greater fighter in any aspect of the sport of Boxing than James Toney, dont forget that James Toney has never ever been KOd in over 70 fights, he has only ever been on the floor once and got up to win... Toney took the best punches that Hasim Rahman had to hit him with, which proves that Toney had the better whiskers between him and Lewis... Toney KOd Holyfield something Lewis never came near to doing in 24rds.... Yes i go for Toney KO6
Mickey... you skipped this question i asked you

bolopunchez
03-23-2010, 02:41 PM
yes, i see no reason why i should change my opinion.. Tell me one fighter who Lewis has fought who would be a greater fighter in any aspect of the sport of Boxing than James Toney, dont forget that James Toney has never ever been KOd in over 70 fights, he has only ever been on the floor once and got up to win... Toney took the best punches that Hasim Rahman had to hit him with, which proves that Toney had the better whiskers between him and Lewis... Toney KOd Holyfield something Lewis never came near to doing in 24rds.... Yes i go for Toney KO6

Holyfield is better than Toney.

Don't tell me about how the second fight was close and could've gone either way, because the first fight's terrible "draw" makes up for it. Lewis clearly beat a much better version of Holyfield than Toney did.

sonnyboyx2
03-23-2010, 03:06 PM
Holyfield is better than Toney.

Don't tell me about how the second fight was close and could've gone either way, because the first fight's terrible "draw" makes up for it. Lewis clearly beat a much better version of Holyfield than Toney did.

Totally agree in part with you in that "The terrible draw ment that Holyfield could never win the 2nd fight in the eyes of the judges" - yet the vast majority of ringside reporters had Holyfield the clear winner of the 2nd fight....Toney fought the same version of Holyfield as Lewis did and knocked him out, something Lewis never came near to doing

bolopunchez
03-23-2010, 03:17 PM
Totally agree in part with you in that "The terrible draw ment that Holyfield could never win the 2nd fight in the eyes of the judges" - yet the vast majority of ringside reporters had Holyfield the clear winner of the 2nd fight....Toney fought the same version of Holyfield as Lewis did and knocked him out, something Lewis never came near to doing

I never said Holyfield couldn't win, because of the first fight's terrible decision. I said it was close and that the first fight's terrible decision kind of makes up for it.

Are you honestly gonna sit there and tell me that Lewis didn't beat Holyfield in the first fight? Are you gonna tell me that their second fight wasn't close?

sonnyboyx2
03-23-2010, 03:33 PM
I never said Holyfield couldn't win, because of the first fight's terrible decision. I said it was close and that the first fight's terrible decision kind of makes up for it.

Are you honestly gonna sit there and tell me that Lewis didn't beat Holyfield in the first fight? Are you gonna tell me that their second fight wasn't close?

i never said anything of the kind.. i had Lewis winning their 1st fight 7-5 and Holyfield winning their 2nd fight 7-5

sonnyboyx2
03-23-2010, 03:35 PM
yes, i see no reason why i should change my opinion.. Tell me one fighter who Lewis has fought who would be a greater fighter in any aspect of the sport of Boxing than James Toney, dont forget that James Toney has never ever been KOd in over 70 fights, he has only ever been on the floor once and got up to win... Toney took the best punches that Hasim Rahman had to hit him with, which proves that Toney had the better whiskers between him and Lewis... Toney KOd Holyfield something Lewis never came near to doing in 24rds.... Yes i go for Toney KO6

Mickey.. you skipped this question i asked you

mickey malone
03-23-2010, 03:52 PM
Mickey... you skipped this question i asked you
Toney is a defensive genius with an excellent set of whiskers, which cannot be denied, but you need a bit more than that to beat Lewis.. It's no good using a past prime Holyfield as a measuring stick, purely down to the fact that Holyfield will always be remembered as a greater fighter than Toney.. So I suppose there's your answer really..
The facts are, that Lewis has KO'd more seasoned heavyweights than Toney has had heavyweight fights.. I agree that in the 10 fights he's had as a heavy, he's aquited himself quite well, but only as a survivor, and hasn't really asserted himself in most of those performances.. Well he hasn't looked at all dangerous has he?

Oh, and you skipped one of my questions too, Do you think Sam Peter would beat Lewis?

bolopunchez
03-23-2010, 04:03 PM
i never said anything of the kind.. i had Lewis winning their 1st fight 7-5 and Holyfield winning their 2nd fight 7-5

7-5, for their first fight? WOW! How much more biased can you get?

I've read through this thread and another one, as well, and I can see how much of a Lewis hater you are. Your theories about him are insane.

What I really found insane was your theory for Bowe not ducking Lewis. When asked for the source of your theory, you gave a link to an interview of the guilty man himself (Bowe) basically saying he didn't. Absolutely hilarious.

I might watch some Lewis fights, tonight. After all, he is one of the greatest heavyweights of all-time and considered by most to be the best of his era.

sonnyboyx2
03-23-2010, 04:12 PM
Toney is a defensive genius with an excellent set of whiskers, which cannot be denied, but you need a bit more than that to beat Lewis.. It's no good using a past prime Holyfield as a measuring stick, purely down to the fact that Holyfield will always be remembered as a greater fighter than Toney.. So I suppose there's your answer really..
The facts are, that Lewis has KO'd more seasoned heavyweights than Toney has had heavyweight fights.. I agree that in the 10 fights he's had as a heavy, he's aquited himself quite well, but only as a survivor, and hasn't really asserted himself in most of those performances.. Well he hasn't looked at all dangerous has he?

Oh, and you skipped one of my questions too, Do you think Sam Peter would beat Lewis?


no i think Lewis would beat Sam Peter... James Toney fought Sam Peter when he was 40yrs old, if the James Toney who beat Holyfield that weighed 217lbs fought any version of Lennox Lewis then IMO Toney wins quite easily by KO6....
you dont need no more than what Toney is, like you claim to beat Lewis.. was McCall & Rahman defensive geniuses, did Rahman have a set of whiskers as good as James Toneys, could either one of them fight inside like James Toney could..watching Holyfield vs Toney it was clear that Evander was in way over his head.. Holyfield had just hammered Rahman and put in very good performances after the Toney fight against Savarese, Madalone & Valuev, yet Lewis fought 24rds with him that IMO i would say went 12rds each... you are not giving James Toney the credit he deserves, you are underestimating just how great a fighter James Toney was, and vastly over-estimating Lennox Lewis

Shazam!
03-23-2010, 04:13 PM
I never said Holyfield couldn't win, because of the first fight's terrible decision. I said it was close and that the first fight's terrible decision kind of makes up for it.

Are you honestly gonna sit there and tell me that Lewis didn't beat Holyfield in the first fight? Are you gonna tell me that their second fight wasn't close?

[QUOTE=bolopunchez;7872445]7-5, for their first fight? WOW! How much more biased can you get?QUOTE]

You can't get much more bias than that. What he's saying is that if one round in the first Lewis/Holyfield fight had been he would have scored it a draw.

That 350-120 punches landed is that close to a draw.

The first Holyfield/Lewis fight was one of the most one-sided fights of its type in the history of heavyweight boxing and Lewis got shafted over.

If it had been in the UK, or for that matter any country in the world other than America, we all know that would never have happened.

bolopunchez
03-23-2010, 04:17 PM
You can't get much more bias than that. What he's saying is that if one round in the first Lewis/Holyfield fight had been he would have scored it a draw.

That 350-120 punches landed is that close to a draw.

The first Holyfield/Lewis fight was one of the most one-sided fights of its type in the history of heavyweight boxing and Lewis got shafted over.

If it had been in the UK, or for that matter any country in the world other than America, we all know that would never have happened.

Agreed.

I still don't know how the judges could've scored the fight a draw. It's as if they watched the fight with their eyes closed.

mickey malone
03-23-2010, 04:53 PM
no i think Lewis would beat Sam Peter... James Toney fought Sam Peter when he was 40yrs old, if the James Toney who beat Holyfield that weighed 217lbs fought any version of Lennox Lewis then IMO Toney wins quite easily by KO6....
you dont need no more than what Toney is, like you claim to beat Lewis.. was McCall & Rahman defensive geniuses, did Rahman have a set of whiskers as good as James Toneys, could either one of them fight inside like James Toney could..watching Holyfield vs Toney it was clear that Evander was in way over his head.. Holyfield had just hammered Rahman and put in very good performances after the Toney fight against Savarese, Madalone & Valuev, yet Lewis fought 24rds with him that IMO i would say went 12rds each... you are not giving James Toney the credit he deserves, you are underestimating just how great a fighter James Toney was, and vastly over-estimating Lennox Lewis
Hmmm, I can see how your getting there, but your using poor old Holy again.. He was 44 and went on to eek out a DC over 40 year old Saverese who was KO'd in one round by the supposedly shot Mike Tyson.. Toney trained up for a change, and then mugged Holyfield at the Darby & Joan club.. That 217lb Toney may have given the Lewis who fought Vitaly a few problems, but I can't see him having enough 'one-shot' poke to do a Rahman or a McCall on him.. I mean Toney hasn't done that to anyone since Michael Nunn 20 years ago!
Anyway, it's only down to opinion, and my opinion is, that if Toney really thought he could have beaten the big fairy, then why did he wait until Lewis retired, b4 making his move up to HW?

sonnyboyx2
03-23-2010, 05:17 PM
Hmmm, I can see how your getting there, but your using poor old Holy again.. He was 44 and went on to eek out a DC over 40 year old Saverese who was KO'd in one round by the supposedly shot Mike Tyson.. Toney trained up for a change, and then mugged Holyfield at the Darby & Joan club.. That 217lb Toney may have given the Lewis who fought Vitaly a few problems, but I can't see him having enough 'one-shot' poke to do a Rahman or a McCall on him.. I mean Toney hasn't done that to anyone since Michael Nunn 20 years ago!
Anyway, it's only down to opinion, and my opinion is, that if Toney really thought he could have beaten the big fairy, then why did he wait until Lewis retired, b4 making his move up to HW?

you used old Holyfield as you opponent of Lewis who you said was more skilled in the sport of boxing than James Toney... i cannot agree
Toney was a light-heavy/cruiserweight to 2003 since moving up to heavyweight he has repeatedly called for a fight with every top rated fighter including The Klitschko brothers both of who are bigger in stature than Lewis, in almost every one of Toneys fights at heavyweight the majority of boxing fans have claimed he would be too little and will get KOd yet even at his advanced age he has proven over and over again that he is without doubt one of the greatest fighters of the last half century.. if Holyfield, Rahman, Ruiz & Peter could not KO or even floor James Toney then no-way does Lennox Lewis... and if Lewis could not KO Toney then i fail to see how Lewis could win, he does not possess the boxing skills to deal with the skills of Toney... This topic asked who would win and we gave our opinions, i stick with Toney KO6 (easy win)

Shazam!
03-23-2010, 05:34 PM
This topic asked who would win and we gave our opinions, i stick with Toney KO6 (easy win)

Lewis 48

Toney 10

...and counting...

Mugwump
03-23-2010, 10:17 PM
The only chance Toney has is if Lewis chooses not to take him seriously. But you can rely on Toney to say something in the fight build-up (remember his war of words with Barkley) that would make Lennox angry and put on his Rahman II head.

Toney has a great chin, but if he gets caught with the punch that starched Rahman he aint never getting up again.

RAESAAD
03-23-2010, 10:19 PM
Simply no way Toney could beat a prime Lennox....Nobody could. Or when they did they were quickly avenged by KO. Lennox is top 5-10 ATG HW IMO.

mickey malone
03-24-2010, 02:50 AM
you used old Holyfield as you opponent of Lewis who you said was more skilled in the sport of boxing than James Toney... i cannot agree
Toney was a light-heavy/cruiserweight to 2003 since moving up to heavyweight he has repeatedly called for a fight with every top rated fighter including The Klitschko brothers both of who are bigger in stature than Lewis, in almost every one of Toneys fights at heavyweight the majority of boxing fans have claimed he would be too little and will get KOd yet even at his advanced age he has proven over and over again that he is without doubt one of the greatest fighters of the last half century.. if Holyfield, Rahman, Ruiz & Peter could not KO or even floor James Toney then no-way does Lennox Lewis... and if Lewis could not KO Toney then i fail to see how Lewis could win, he does not possess the boxing skills to deal with the skills of Toney... This topic asked who would win and we gave our opinions, i stick with Toney KO6 (easy win)
I used a past prime Holyfield.. Your version is even 4 years older still..
I'd speculate, that version would have been stopped a fair bit quicker by Lewis..
Evander's punch resistance was one of the 1st things to go, and he's fought a lot more defensively since he was stopped by Toney..

I'm a big admirer of Toney, and he is a P4P ATG, but he is not a HW ATG.. He's reminiscent of Joe Choynski at HW, very good, but not quite good enough..
He may have called out the Klits, but he wouldn't beat them either..
If Peter and Rahman couldn't KO him, then the least a prime Lewis or the Klits would do, is beat him by a much wider majority.. And as for Ruiz; well you'll see how much you've overrated him, next month..

sonnyboyx2
03-24-2010, 04:24 AM
I used a past prime Holyfield.. Your version is even 4 years older still..
I'd speculate, that version would have been stopped a fair bit quicker by Lewis..
Evander's punch resistance was one of the 1st things to go, and he's fought a lot more defensively since he was stopped by Toney..

I'm a big admirer of Toney, and he is a P4P ATG, but he is not a HW ATG.. He's reminiscent of Joe Choynski at HW, very good, but not quite good enough..
He may have called out the Klits, but he wouldn't beat them either..
If Peter and Rahman couldn't KO him, then the least a prime Lewis or the Klits would do, is beat him by a much wider majority.. And as for Ruiz; well you'll see how much you've overrated him, next month..


Mickey.. put your money where your mouth is for next months fight, because if i lose you wont be able to say a thing if you remain `sitting on the fence`

sonnyboyx2
03-24-2010, 04:27 AM
The only chance Toney has is if Lewis chooses not to take him seriously. But you can rely on Toney to say something in the fight build-up (remember his war of words with Barkley) that would make Lennox angry and put on his Rahman II head.

Toney has a great chin, but if he gets caught with the punch that starched Rahman he aint never getting up again.

Rahman II head?... are you talking about when he KOd Rahman?... Oleg Maskaev KOd Rahman TWICE both times more devastating than the Lewis KO... Rahman is a bum

Telepath
03-24-2010, 04:54 AM
Do you think that James Toney has ever had the power to trouble Lewis?

I know that Toney does have an iron chin and great defense, but over 12 rounds, Lewis would definitely find a way to score a clean knockout, while winning all the rounds in the process.

Extreme mismatch.

mickey malone
03-24-2010, 05:09 AM
Mickey.. put your money where your mouth is for next months fight, because if i lose you wont be able to say a thing if you remain `sitting on the fence`
I offered you the bet weeks ago, but you wanted ridiculous odds..
I'll go 50,000 pts, winner takes all with a draw being void, if you like?

sonnyboyx2
03-24-2010, 05:35 AM
Do you think that James Toney has ever had the power to trouble Lewis?

I know that Toney does have an iron chin and great defense, but over 12 rounds, Lewis would definitely find a way to score a clean knockout, while winning all the rounds in the process.

Extreme mismatch.

Toney has never been wobbled never mind `cleanly knocked out` in over 70 fights

sonnyboyx2
03-24-2010, 05:36 AM
I offered you the bet weeks ago, but you wanted ridiculous odds..
I'll go 50,000 pts, winner takes all with a draw being void, if you like?

i am cool with that as long as i get 3/1

Telepath
03-24-2010, 05:43 AM
Toney has never been wobbled never mind `cleanly knocked out` in over 70 fightsToney has never fought anyone with close to the power and accuracy of a prime Lennox Lewis, either.

Shazam!
03-24-2010, 06:23 AM
Agree with everyone's responses to sonnyboy on the last few pages.

sonnyboyx2
03-24-2010, 07:59 AM
Toney has never fought anyone with close to the power and accuracy of a prime Lennox Lewis, either.

Holyfield, Sam Peter, Rahman etc

Telepath
03-24-2010, 08:13 AM
Holyfield, Sam Peter, Rahman etcNot even close.

mickey malone
03-24-2010, 09:46 AM
i am cool with that as long as i get 3/1
Don't blame you.. If my money was on Ruiz, I'd want at least 3-1..

Ziggy Stardust
03-24-2010, 10:09 AM
You have to be drinking some serious Hateraid to pick an obese MIDDLEWEIGHT to beat Lennox :trink26:

Poet

check hook
03-24-2010, 10:16 AM
Toney has never been wobbled never mind `cleanly knocked out` in over 70 fights



not true.......do your homework........

sonnyboyx2
03-24-2010, 10:38 AM
not true.......do your homework........

you are correct, i should have said 80 fights he has never been wobbled, KOd or knocked down

mickey malone
03-24-2010, 10:43 AM
you are correct, i should have said 80 fights he has never been wobbled, KOd or knocked down
I think you'll find he was decked by Reggie Johnson..

sonnyboyx2
03-24-2010, 10:45 AM
Don't blame you.. If my money was on Ruiz, I'd want at least 3-1..

Lets get one thing clear here... i have bet points on this forum with several members and taken Ruiz to win, i have a bet on with Bet365 bookmakers at odds of 7/1 Ruiz to win by KO, TKO or DSQ any round (which is a great bet)

i have not backed Ruiz because i think he is a world beater, i have backed Ruiz because i think Haye is not very good, i think Haye is another Ricky Hatton - "a knock out waiting to happen"

sonnyboyx2
03-24-2010, 10:51 AM
Filter History Total Sports Balance: 343.64 GBP

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Transactions (GBP)
Date/Time Bet Details (Click selection for full details) Stake Return
26/01/2010 18:11:48 John Ruiz by KO, TKO or Disqualification @ 7/1, £100.00 Single 100.00 0.00
18/01/2010 17:29:01 Man Utd @ 3/1, £50.00 Single 50.00 0.00
Total 150.00 0.00

Here is my bet

sonnyboyx2
03-24-2010, 10:59 AM
I think you'll find he was decked by Reggie Johnson..

Thanks Micky, your correct, i was wracking my mind trying to thing who it was, Jones or Toney who was put down by Johnson.. Toney was caught square-on with a great left-hook, he was up at the count of 1

mickey malone
03-24-2010, 11:27 AM
Thanks Micky, your correct, i was wracking my mind trying to thing who it was, Jones or Toney who was put down by Johnson.. Toney was caught square-on with a great left-hook, he was up at the count of 1
True.. Anyone wanting to see the perfect example of an iron chin should see that fight..
His head cleared immediately and he went on to win the rest of that round, aswell as the fight..

General Zod
03-24-2010, 06:04 PM
Hopkins was rated within Ring magazines top ten middleweight ratings.His struggle against Mercado had everything to do with the altitude rather than Mercado.They rematched immediately and Hopkins put out arguably the finest performance of his career and destroyed Mercado.
Yeah you are right about the rankings, he is placed 8, with Gerald 2 and Jackson 5
1993
Title Vacant

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Gerald McClellan
3. John David Jackson
4. Reggie Johnson
5. Julian Jackson
6. Thomas Tate
7. Lamar Parks
8. Bernard Hopkins
9. Vinny Pazienza
10. Otis Grant

As for your second point it doesn't justify his tactics in that fight and he should of lost because the ref should of docked points for headbutting

General Zod
03-24-2010, 06:37 PM
you are a serious nuthugger mate... you are wrong on everything you say... To claim that Lennox Lewis will be ranked as a greater fighter than Roy Jones is deluding yourself... put yourself a poll up on this forum asking who will be remembered as the greater fighter and Jones will get 20 times more votes than Lewis will..
What has Jones done since 94? Why dont you present a case of why he should be considered higher than Lewis? He has also been a journeyman for the last 7 years. You trash Lewis for getting poleaxed by McCall, but at least he put his career on track something which Jones hasnt done after Tarver II.

you are obviously a BHop hater...BHop had been a pro longer than Jones so he was obviously further away from being in his prime...You claim BHop resorted to headbutting
lol at this post, Prime is the overlap when a fighter is in his physical prime and at the top of his technical game. It varies from fighter to fighter or are you saying that the fighter who fought Jones was the same fighter who fought Johnson? You know fighters can improve.

lol at the Hater comment as well

Jones had bigger fish to go after than Jackson or McClellan in 94-95 he moved to super-middle and beat James Toney.. Jones was a 3/1 dog on fightnight...Jackson & McClellan was not rated higher than Toney in the P4P lists.. Toney was No2
Jackson was the WBC champion from: 1991-09-14 1993-05-08
Gerald was the WBC champion from: 1993-05-08 1994-05-07
Jones was the IBF champion from: 1993-05-22 1994-11-18

Instead of fighting other highly ranked fighters, like Gerald and Jackson, Jones fought C grade fighters at MW instead.
Toney had been calling Jones out for months and Jones ignored him, it was only when Gerald started to call out Jones that he decided to move up to SMW. After winning the IBF SMW belt who did Jones fight again?

You do know that the p4p rankings are a imaginary list as well, right? It doesn't mean that fighters on the list should exactly fight either.

Toney often called for a fight with Lewis, he called Lewis "nothing but a big fairy"...Toney said after the Lewis vs Tua fight that the fight was pathetic because both fighters was scared of eachother, he said he would whoop Lewis ass"
Toney and Jones have a history together, Toney and Lewis do not, case closed.

Toney has had a brilliant career.. Toney is one of the greatest fighters who ever lived yet you claim he wasted 13yrs of his career, i can recall no other former middleweight champion who had as much success in the higher weight divisions than James Toney..
After losing to Jones what did Toney do until 2003 exactly? After beating Holyfield in 2003 what has Toney done exactly?
Toney does not have a brilliant career he has talent, but he has thrown away most of his prime years due to his eating problem.

you claim Hopkins best wins was over Trinidad & Tarver, yet he also beat DeLaHoya, Pavlik, Johnson and many other good fighters.... you are a Hater of BHop.
Delahoya: Delahoya lost his fight with Sturm and would lose to Bhop as well. At MW he should be 0-2, i.e a poor MW

Johnson: Is a tough rugged journeyman and now has 13 losses to his name

Pavlik: is the MW champion, not the LHW champion, he has achieved nothing at LHW so how can beating him at that weight mean anything?

Pazienza, Hill & McCallum was all very good fighters, far far better than Lionel Butler, Phil Jackson, Justine Fortune, Zelko Mavrovic, Frans Botha, Michael Grant, Henry Akinwande, Hasim Rahman who Lewis chose to fight instead of fighting the top contenders and fighters who was at the top of their game...
Who has Hill beaten?
What top SMW has Vinny Paz beat?
McCallum was 40 years old at the time and one fight away from retirement.

I like how you try and compare the best of Jones wins with the worst of Lewis's. Why dont you list: Thornton, Brannon, Lucas, Frazier, Harmon, Telesco and all the other cans Jones has fought instead.

rsf
03-24-2010, 06:44 PM
lewis by ko around the 7th

Shazam!
03-24-2010, 06:56 PM
I like how you try and compare the best of Jones wins with the worst of Lewis's.

Great call. And ditto for every other fighter he's compared with Lewis. Suggest anything?

Ziggy Stardust
03-24-2010, 08:17 PM
Lot's of HaterAid being chugged :trink26:

Poet