View Full Version : James Toney And Ray Mercer On Fedor


snakerattle79
03-16-2010, 05:20 AM
<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop*****?clip_id=10188020&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sh ow_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;fu llscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop*****?clip_id=10188020&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sh ow_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;fu llscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/10188020">James Toney And Ray Mercer On Fedor</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user929050">snake rattle</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

G A M E
03-16-2010, 05:54 AM
<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop*****?clip_id=10188020&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sh ow_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;fu llscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop*****?clip_id=10188020&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sh ow_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;fu llscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/10188020">James Toney And Ray Mercer On Fedor</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user929050">snake rattle</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

wtf was James saying man... all i got was a tyson analogy? lol

Mickey Gomez
03-16-2010, 07:09 AM
It's kinda sad how punchy both those guys are.

nodogoshi
03-16-2010, 08:54 AM
I watched the full show last night. I pretty much thought they were using the same old bias perspectives with which boxers tend to describe MMA striking (perhaps the same mythology is a better description). Getting on your toes and boxing doesn't quite work the same way for MMA as it does for boxing.

Also, Fedor's timing is absolutely insane. This is why he is so great at capitalising on guy's mistakes. In the Rogers fight, he threw the righthand counter before Rogers had even let fly with his left. (Fedor reacted to Rogers' telegraphing step).

Another thing I've noticed watching Fedor's last 2 fights, he cleared his nostrils just before kayoing both Arlovski and Rogers. I guess that when Fedor clears his nostrils is when you know that **** is about to get serious:burnout:

MJ406
03-16-2010, 02:51 PM
jeez Toney is a mumbling mess.

Elemental Fist
03-16-2010, 03:13 PM
Here is the full episode here, in my opinion Mercer came off as sort of a class act in this episode and like Bas and Rice, I too I'm not crazy about the ground and pound tactic, I feel it demeans the ground game a bit in my opinion.

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nodogoshi
03-16-2010, 03:21 PM
Here is the full episode here, in my opinion Mercer came off as sort of a class act in this episode and like Bas and Rice, I too I'm not crazy about the ground and pound tactic, I feel it demeans the ground game a bit in my opinion.

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I agree with your comments and that Mercer was a class act. I didn't mean to insinuate anything to the contrary (just for the record).

Toney was a bit out there with some of his comments, but I think he was pretty much just being Toney for the most part. He seemed to come off as a little bit naive about the ground game, but I'm not really convinced that that's what he really thinks.

I still thought they sort of parroted the same old mythological bull**** about boxing in MMA though on the discussion about Fedor.

Elemental Fist
03-16-2010, 03:44 PM
I agree with your comments and that Mercer was a class act. I didn't mean to insinuate anything to the contrary (just for the record).

Toney was a bit out there with some of his comments, but I think he was pretty much just being Toney for the most part. He seemed to come off as a little bit naive about the ground game, but I'm not really convinced that that's what he really thinks.

I still thought they sort of parroted the same old mythological bull**** about boxing in MMA though on the discussion about Fedor.

You got no complains from me there, Toney is definitely selling Fedor short however you can say he's responding to the way Dana White and many MMA elitists love to **** on Boxing, it wasn't a good response but I don't really blame him. Fedor can be at a disadvantage against a good puncher (he was almost dazed by Fujita and Andre was actually if for a short time in the driver's seat) but he makes up for it by keeping calm under pressure and knowing when to take advantage of an opening plus having a good punch in his own right.

I agree with Noons that learning Boxing fundamentals is an important aspect many MMA training seem to lack mostly due to reliance on ground game styles like BJJ and other striking arts like Muay Thai.

res
03-16-2010, 05:22 PM
I watched the full show last night. I pretty much thought they were using the same old bias perspectives with which boxers tend to describe MMA striking (perhaps the same mythology is a better description). Getting on your toes and boxing doesn't quite work the same way for MMA as it does for boxing.



:

and how exactly do we know that...because of the Tim Silva Ray Mercer fight?

Silva made a name for himself as a top MMA heavyweight striker taking out his competition with striking, only to be Koed in seconds by an old top ranked Boxer. I think it's you guys that are indulging the mythologies. You watch these MMA guys striking horribly among themselves, and based on that, you believe that they can outstrike a top ranked pro Boxer, even older ones like these.

The thing is, these MMA fighters are not as niave as their fans. if Toney or Mercer fight Fedor, their going to be dropped on their heads in a clinch in the first 30 seconds, trust me.

kaps
03-16-2010, 07:21 PM
and how exactly do we know that...because of the Tim Silva Ray Mercer fight?

Silva made a name for himself as a top MMA heavyweight striker taking out his competition with striking, only to be Koed in seconds by an old top ranked Boxer. I think it's you guys that are indulging the mythologies. You watch these MMA guys striking horribly among themselves, and based on that, you believe that they can outstrike a top ranked pro Boxer, even older ones like these.

The thing is, these MMA fighters are not as niave as their fans. if Toney or Mercer fight Fedor, their going to be dropped on their heads in a clinch in the first 30 seconds, trust me.

Who exactly are these great fighters that Sylvia Koed? Can McGee? Arvloski? I don't even think that Sylvia ever considered himself a top striker in MMA...

phallus
03-16-2010, 10:45 PM
Who exactly are these great fighters that Sylvia Koed? Can McGee? Arvloski? I don't even think that Sylvia ever considered himself a top striker in MMA...

tim sylvia is garbage nobody should be using him to make any "point" in boxing vs. mma. arlovski is garbage too, but his boxing fundamentals are sound. they're 2 different sports, like judo vs. muay thai, boxers don't have to watch out for takedowns or kicks, so we can't expect to see perfect boxing in mma. i'm a boxing coach but i love to watch mma also, i wish these retards would just put away the boxing vs. mma crap and just enjoy the fights

res
03-16-2010, 11:50 PM
Who exactly are these great fighters that Sylvia Koed? Can McGee? Arvloski? I don't even think that Sylvia ever considered himself a top striker in MMA...

So now the MMA world wants to pretend they never knew the guy right? hahaha.

Don't ask me to sift through the names of those anonymous MMA fighters, all i know is, a few years ago Dana White would climax everytime he said Tim Silvia's name, i heard about him non-stop. Now you want to try to make him into a nobody?

Give me a break.

and how did he win his fights? as a grappler?

res
03-16-2010, 11:58 PM
tim sylvia is garbage nobody should be using him to make any "point" in boxing vs. mma. arlovski is garbage too, but his boxing fundamentals are sound. they're 2 different sports, like judo vs. muay thai, boxers don't have to watch out for takedowns or kicks, so we can't expect to see perfect boxing in mma. i'm a boxing coach but i love to watch mma also, i wish these retards would just put away the boxing vs. mma crap and just enjoy the fights



have you ever seen a tutorial on how to throw an "MMA punch"?

also, have you ever seen Rampage Jackson or George St Pierre throw punches?

many of these other guys simply can't throw a punch, it's as simple as that.

Look maybe MMA has to evolve in the same way way Boxing had to but it has yet to finish. My problem is not with MMA but with many of it's naive fans.

kaps
03-17-2010, 12:06 AM
I don't understand why you guys cannot get it thru your head that there are different types of punches thrown, it's like a baseball player saying that a tennis player isn't holding the racket right. Both sports involve hitting a ball, but they have different applications...

kaps
03-17-2010, 12:10 AM
So now the MMA world wants to pretend they never knew the guy right? hahaha.

Don't ask me to sift through the names of those anonymous MMA fighters, all i know is, a few years ago Dana White would climax everytime he said Tim Silvia's name, i heard about him non-stop. Now you want to try to make him into a nobody?

Give me a break.

and how did he win his fights? as a grappler?

The only people who ever took him seriously where average peeps who watch every now and then. If you believe everything Dana White says then I'm sorry. I guess you believe Chuck Liddell was the best fighter ever, or that Fedor is a farce, because Dana says so? The only time Sylvia fought anybody worth while besides Arvloski he left the cage with a "L" on his record...

nodogoshi
03-17-2010, 02:05 AM
and how exactly do we know that...because of the Tim Silva Ray Mercer fight?

Silva made a name for himself as a top MMA heavyweight striker taking out his competition with striking, only to be Koed in seconds by an old top ranked Boxer. I think it's you guys that are indulging the mythologies. You watch these MMA guys striking horribly among themselves, and based on that, you believe that they can outstrike a top ranked pro Boxer, even older ones like these.

The thing is, these MMA fighters are not as niave as their fans. if Toney or Mercer fight Fedor, their going to be dropped on their heads in a clinch in the first 30 seconds, trust me.

Yeah, the same Tim Sylvia who was coming off of being sparked by Fedor. And throwing and landing a single right hand isn't exactly getting on your toes and boxing.

And I'm not someone who is hoping for any of these guys to fail, just saying what I think. And the mythology I refer to is basically embodied in the fact that every time someone scores a good KO with there hands you have people coming in here saying "that just shows what a good boxer could do." No it does not. It's true that boxing is an important aspect, but it is just one aspect and ignoring all of the other elements is really quite naive.

Cuauhtémoc1520
03-17-2010, 10:31 AM
I think the bottom line is that in boxing you have a sport where fighters learn one thing. So therefore you get more specialized fighters.

In mma you need to learn so many different things that you will never gain the skill a boxer has with his hands. I think that's what Toney, Mercer and other boxers are basically saying.

There's not doubt if Fedor stands toe to toe and doesn't kick, shoot or anything else involved in MMA, someone like Mercer or Toney can easily knock him out.

The reality is though, it is MMA and they will have to account for kicks, knees etc.

I don't think it's a diss to MMA to say boxers are more proficient with their hands, it's just the truth. Anyone who spends that much time studying one thing should be that good in it, it's common sense.

kaps
03-17-2010, 10:41 AM
I think the bottom line is that in boxing you have a sport where fighters learn one thing. So therefore you get more specialized fighters.

In mma you need to learn so many different things that you will never gain the skill a boxer has with his hands. I think that's what Toney, Mercer and other boxers are basically saying.

There's not doubt if Fedor stands toe to toe and doesn't kick, shoot or anything else involved in MMA, someone like Mercer or Toney can easily knock him out.

The reality is though, it is MMA and they will have to account for kicks, knees etc.

I don't think it's a diss to MMA to say boxers are more proficient with their hands, it's just the truth. Anyone who spends that much time studying one thing should be that good in it, it's common sense.

Pretty much my point. If they where fighting someone who is going to just stand there and throw hands with them they'll probably win, but in MMA, it's more than hands so there chances go down the more they don't know...

Cuauhtémoc1520
03-17-2010, 10:52 AM
Pretty much my point. If they where fighting someone who is going to just stand there and throw hands with them they'll probably win, but in MMA, it's more than hands so there chances go down the more they don't know...

I will be honest, I am shocked that James Toney is trying his hand in MMA. He must really need some money because I don't see outside of KOing someone out how he has a chance at winning.

kaps
03-17-2010, 10:54 AM
I will be honest, I am shocked that James Toney is trying his hand in MMA. He must really need some money because I don't see outside of KOing someone out how he has a chance at winning.

WTF do these dudes do with all there money?

Cuauhtémoc1520
03-17-2010, 11:14 AM
WTF do these dudes do with all there money?

I have been around boxers my whole life, some have been the greatest people you would want to meet. I can say this, not the smartest dudes in the world, let's just say that.