Felix "Tito" Trinidad or Marco Antonio Barrera.

Who do you pick and why?

:bryce: :bryce: :bryce: :sucks:



what's poppin!

Notable Barerra Wins:

Morales x2
Hamed
Kelley
Ayala
Tapia
McKinney
Salud

Champ at 3 weights. Wins over prime Morales twice and prime Hamed are enough to make him greater than Trinidad. Comes back from losses to defeat prime time fighters in his division twice. Fights with everything he's got and embodies the meaning of the word warrior.

If you mean now then it's obviously MAB but if career then it's obvious Tito.

Tito KO a prime Vargas and Reid. Beat a prime DLH, a very good Joppy, a good Oba Carr, and KO Mayorga

Most of those MAB wins were against old or past there prime fighters and they shouldnt count. Thats why I didnt count Sweet Pea for Tito.

Tito also lost to what some say are the best 2 fighters in the world while MAB lost to Morales, Pac, and Junior Jones twice and he was dominated in 3 of those losses which cancles out Titos to domination losses. He was also stopped twice while Tito once. Tito lost to better fighters. He wouldnt lose twice to Junior Jones and when Tito got on top he fought the best while MAB had alot of has beens mixed in between his Morales fights

Notable Barerra Wins:

Morales x2
Hamed
Kelley
Ayala
Tapia
McKinney
Salud

Champ at 3 weights. Wins over prime Morales twice and prime Hamed are enough to make him greater than Trinidad. Comes back from losses to defeat prime time fighters in his division twice. Fights with everything he's got and embodies the meaning of the word warrior.
Tito also a 3 division champ and a warrior also.

:bryce: :bryce: :bryce: :sucks:



what's poppin!

so who is the better fighter? or has hooked on phonics worked for you well enough to read the poll yet?


To me its Marco. Just for the simple fact he has been competitive in all of his bouts with the exceptions of Pacquiao and Junior Jonesx. Tito is a warrior but he got outclassed very badly against two good boxers in Hopkins and Wright and would have lost to Oscar too if he hadnt have pulled the running man strategy. Tito looks great against sluggers but Barrera looks good against sluggers and technicians

so who is the better fighter? or has hooked on phonics worked for you well enough to read the poll yet?


To me its Barerra. Just for the simple fact he has been competitive in all of his bouts with the exceptions of Pacquiao and Junior Jonesx. Tito is a warrior but he got outclassed very badly against two good boxers in Hopkins and Wright and would have lost to Oscar too if he hadnt have pulled the running man strategy. Tito looks great against sluggers but Barrera looks good against sluggers and technicians


yea... well it does suck reason bein the doo who started this shiznite thread wanted to provoke a hate discussion to prove the doo-a-dee point he been tryin to make nah mean?

yea... well it does suck reason bein the doo who started this shiznite thread wanted to provoke a hate discussion to prove the doo-a-dee point he been tryin to make nah mean?


not really. Im not good with ebonics. but have a nice day anyways

barrera is a living legend

Tito beat a real young Vargas who was made for him, as well as Mayorga. Reid is a bum as a pro a well as Carr. Camacho was never good. Oscar beat Tito and Barrera has never been so dominated in a fight like Tito has.

I dont think any superstar has ever been sp dominated in one fight. Except for Frazier i guess

Tito has just fought better opposition and his losses even though he was schooled in his losses were to much greater fighters than Barreras losses.

theres like so many more better p4p fighters that existed... apologies to those fighters who didnt get a mention e.g. RJJ, sugar Ray Robinson, Kosta Zoo, DLH....

yea... well it does suck reason bein the doo who started this shiznite thread wanted to provoke a hate discussion to prove the doo-a-dee point he been tryin to make nah mean?


A hate discussion? C'mon man, oldgringo, IwatchBoxing and myself got into a long debate about this, so I brought it to the forum. Do you have that boring of a life that you have to complain about a ****ing boxing thread? :bottle: And where was I trying to prove a point? I was trying to get IwatchBoxing to explain why he thought Marco was overrated.

Barrera easily. Tito is a great fighter against opponents that cater to his style but can not adapt, as shown against Hopkins and Winky. Even though he was getting schooled he kept coming forward and did not try to implement another strategy. Barrera has shown against Hamed and Morales II that he can adjust his style from puncher to boxer or vice-versa in order to win.

If you mean now then it's obviously MAB but if career then it's obvious Tito.

Tito KO a prime Vargas and Reid. Beat a prime DLH, a very good Joppy, a good Oba Carr, and KO Mayorga

Most of those MAB wins were against old or past there prime fighters and they shouldnt count. Thats why I didnt count Sweet Pea for Tito.

Tito also lost to what some say are the best 2 fighters in the world while MAB lost to Morales, Pac, and Junior Jones twice and he was dominated in 3 of those losses which cancles out Titos to domination losses. He was also stopped twice while Tito once. Tito lost to better fighters. He wouldnt lose twice to Junior Jones and when Tito got on top he fought the best while MAB had alot of has beens mixed in between his Morales fights


Beating a prime Hamed and Erik Morales are really what do it for me. I know Tito is close, and I can understand how people would think he's better or whatnot, but for me Barerra has done more with his career with his back against the wall. His wins in comeback efforts are incredible. If we aren't going to count certain guys then theres no point in arguing this. Tito beat young, somewhat damaged goods in David Reid and he beat a young Vargas who, although he was entering the prime of his career, was still too unschooled to be in the ring with Tito at the time. Barerras blemishes are larger than Tito's seeing how he lost to a pretty good fighter in Jones, and a 1 sided loss to Pacquiao. Trinidad has been shut-out twice however as well, and even though they were losses to all-time greats you can't really overlook that. You take away over the hill fighters or fighters past their best then i'm taking away Mayorga because he was way past his best weight and was tailor made for Trinidad.

Barerras performances in his biggest fights have been great whereas Tito's havent been so great (Hamed, Morales, McKinney as opposed to Winky, DLH, Hopkins).

Barrera easily. Tito is a great fighter against opponents that cater to his style but can not adapt, as shown against Hopkins and Winky. Even though he was getting schooled he kept coming forward and did not try to implement another strategy. Barrera has shown against Hamed and Morales II that he can adjust his style from puncher to boxer or vice-versa in order to win.

This is why Barrera is greater.

Beating a prime Hamed and Erik Morales are really what do it for me. I know Tito is close, and I can understand how people would think he's better or whatnot, but for me Barerra has done more with his career with his back against the wall. His wins in comeback efforts are incredible. If we aren't going to count certain guys then theres no point in arguing this. Tito beat young, somewhat damaged goods in David Reid and he beat a young Vargas who, although he was entering the prime of his career, was still too unschooled to be in the ring with Tito at the time. Barerras blemishes are larger than Tito's seeing how he lost to a pretty good fighter in Jones, and a 1 sided loss to Pacquiao. Trinidad has been shut-out twice however as well, and even though they were losses to all-time greats you can't really overlook that. You take away over the hill fighters or fighters past their best then i'm taking away Mayorga because he was way past his best weight and was tailor made for Trinidad.

Barerras performances in his biggest fights have been great whereas Tito's havent been so great (Hamed, Morales, McKinney as opposed to Winky, DLH, Hopkins).


Good logic, I agree. I didnt really voice my opinion about this because people will say I'm biased due to the fact that Marco is one of my favorite fighters, just wanted to see what everyone else thinks.

Barrera due to his bouncebackibility :D

barrera,easy.

You cannot compare Tito to Barrera:D

Barrera hands down is WAY better and will always be remembered

Barrera is my favorite fighter of this era
Trinidad only has power...

If you take Trinidads power away, he has nothing........

Name me one thing he has other than power....

Everyone Trinidad fought was tailor made for him except Winky, Hopkins and DeLaHoya...

How can you not like Barrera?
Exciting, speed, power, beautiful boxing ability, beautiful counterpunching, BIG WARRIOR, and after he loses fights doesnt retire...

He lost a one sided fight to Pacquiao, but came back to knockout Paulie Ayala and won a war with Morales...

Barrera talks the talk and walks the walk..

You cannot compare Tito to Barrera:D

Barrera hands down is WAY better and will always be remembered

Barrera is my favorite fighter of this era
Trinidad only has power...

If you take Trinidads power away, he has nothing........

Name me one thing he has other than power....

Everyone Trinidad fought was tailor made for him except Winky, Hopkins and DeLaHoya...

How can you not like Barrera?
Exciting, speed, power, beautiful boxing ability, beautiful counterpunching, BIG WARRIOR, and after he loses fights doesnt retire...

He lost a one sided fight to Pacquiao, but came back to knockout Paulie Ayala and won a war with Morales...

Barrera talks the talk and walks the walk..


I agree with that, I would like to see Marco get a rematch with Manny though.

I agree with that, I would like to see Marco get a rematch with Manny though.
Hell ya man

I love Barrera (not in a gay way)

I would love to see him get redemption against Pacquiao..

I have a poster of Barrera on my wall which I got from Vegas when I went to his 3rd fight with Morales...

I am glad I was there live for one of his greatest performances ever

That's a tough one, cuz they didn't fought in the same weight div, but I think that Tito fought better comp and remember he made 17 defenses of his 147 title...both are great fighters and future hall of famers...

I would probably go Barrera, but they are about equal.

I chose Barrara over Tito they are both great in many ways but Marco is a class act, he fights his heart out in every fight has skills in every aspect of the sport as well as he never backed down from any opponent. Tito on the other hand was a one dimentional fighter that had great power and stamina but he just didnt have all the tools needed to be greater than what he was 2 years ago. Barrara could defeat most anyone with any style of fighting and he was multi dimentional.

even though i Pick my boy PACMAN to win against a rematch with MAB...

overall Marco is a greater p4p fighter than Tito and up to this point in time against my favorite the PACMAN ...

even though i Pick my boy PACMAN to win against a rematch with MAB...

overall Marco is a greater p4p fighter than Tito and up to this point in time against my favorite the PACMAN ...


I think Pac will be the favorite if they fight again, but win or lose, it's gonna be a different story. I think so anyway.

I chose Barrara over Tito they are both great in many ways but Marco is a class act, he fights his heart out in every fight has skills in every aspect of the sport as well as he never backed down from any opponent. Tito on the other hand was a one dimentional fighter that had great power and stamina but he just didnt have all the tools needed to be greater than what he was 2 years ago. Barrara could defeat most anyone with any style of fighting and he was multi dimentional.


28 to 9, almost the same difference in opinion as the Chavez/Tito P4P debate. That's odd.

28 to 9, almost the same difference in opinion as the Chavez/Tito P4P debate. That's odd.
Well some people like midgets, both Barrera and Morales are overrated, how did so many fighters pass them by? Corrales, Seda, Casamayor, Freitas? How? Barreras biggest fights are :
Manny Pacquiao L, Erik Morales WLW, Naseem Hamed W. Just like Chavez, both come out of the shadows to be great fighters no one heard of before until two or three fights ago.

Last thing I checked was Barrera was still a top 5 P4P fighter.. But I couldn't find Trinidad no where at the top 10.

Maybe I was looking at the wrong list. :rolleyes:

Well some people like midgets, both Barrera and Morales are overrated, how did so many fighters pass them by? Corrales, Seda, Casamayor, Freitas? How? Barreras biggest fights are :
Manny Pacquiao L, Erik Morales WLW, Naseem Hamed W. Just like Chavez, both come out of the shadows to be great fighters no one heard of before until two or three fights ago.


Boxing fans have known who Barerra is/was for a long time. How would you know anyway havent you only been into the sport for like 2 years?

Anyway, Barerras coming out fight was way back in '96 against McKinney. I suggest you watch that fight if you want to be further informed as to why he's better than your boy.

Corrales, Casa and Freitas have all fought at higher weights their entire careers. Do some research next time...

Boxing fans have known who Barerra is/was for a long time. How would you know anyway havent you only been into the sport for like 2 years?

Anyway, Barerras coming out fight was way back in '96 against McKinney. I suggest you watch that fight if you want to be further informed as to why he's better than your boy.

Corrales, Casa and Freitas have all fought at higher weights their entire careers. Do some research next time...
So, what makes Barrera so great? What are his achivements? All of hear is the same crap about Chavez, hes a warrior, hes skilled blah blah, but when I talk about Trinidad I can name fights.

Well some people like midgets, both Barrera and Morales are overrated, how did so many fighters pass them by? Corrales, Seda, Casamayor, Freitas? How? Barreras biggest fights are :
Manny Pacquiao L, Erik Morales WLW, Naseem Hamed W. Just like Chavez, both come out of the shadows to be great fighters no one heard of before until two or three fights ago.

Name some good boxers Trinidad fought

Trinidad has nothing but power

he cant even deal with a damn jab

Notable Barerra Wins:

Morales x2
Hamed
Kelley
Ayala
Tapia
McKinney
Salud

Champ at 3 weights. Wins over prime Morales twice and prime Hamed are enough to make him greater than Trinidad. Comes back from losses to defeat prime time fighters in his division twice. Fights with everything he's got and embodies the meaning of the word warrior.


Here it is again IWB. Once again, his wins over Prime Morales x2 and prime Hamed are enough to make him a bit greater than Trinidad. Add to the fact that he can adapt to fight as a slugger against a great boxer (against Morales) or a boxer to fight a dangerous puncher (against Hamed). Trinidad didn't show that he could adapt to DLH's boxing, Hopkins boxing, or Wrights boxing. Trinidad is close, but is not greater than Barerra.

Notable Barerra Wins:
Morales x2
Hamed
Kelley
Ayala
Tapia
McKinney
Salud
Champ at 3 weights. Wins over prime Morales twice and prime Hamed are enough to make him greater than Trinidad. Comes back from losses to defeat prime time fighters in his division twice. Fights with everything he's got and embodies the meaning of the word warrior.
Hector Camacho (Same as beating The Prince)
Oscar De La Hoya & Fernando Vargas (better than a Morales win)
Pernell Whitaker (better than everyone there, he has a win over Chavez)
There he allready has a better record.

Name some good boxers Trinidad fought

Trinidad has nothing but power

he cant even deal with a damn jab


Trinidad beat good boxers in Reid and Vargas. They were both young and had little business being in the ring with him at the time but he still beat them.

Oba Carr was also a decent boxer.

Hector Camacho (Same as beating The Prince)
Oscar De La Hoya & Fernando Vargas (better than a Morales win)
Pernell Whitaker (better than everyone there, he has a win over Chavez)
There he allready has a better record.


Whitaker and Camacho were WAY past their best when Trinidad beat them. Everyone knows that DLH fight should have been a draw at the least...

Beating a PRIME Morales and a PRIME Hamed is better than the Nando win and the DLH win. Sorry but thats the truth.

Trinidads wins:

Camacho-sucked and was old
Whitaker-Not even close to the shadow of his prime
DeLaHoya-Robbery
Vargas-Come on Vargas was goin toe to toe, Tito only proved he has power
Reid-That was a ok win
Joppy-If Joppy boxed him he could have won
Hopkins-whooped
Wright-couldnt even get passed a damn jab

Trinidad was good, but only good when people go toe to toe...

He can not beat a boxer

so Barrera beats him easily

Prime Whitaker would beat Tito
Prime Camacho would prolly beat Tito
DLH beat Tito
Hopkins beat Tito
Wright beat Tito

IWATCHBOXING, face it, if Trinidad wasn't puerto rican you wouldnt even like him....we all know it and you know it to

Whitaker and Camacho were WAY past their best when Trinidad beat them. Everyone knows that DLH fight should have been a draw at the least...

Beating a PRIME Morales and a PRIME Hamed is better than the Nando win and the DLH win. Sorry but thats the truth.
Whitaker at prime lost to DLH, and beating him when Trinidad beat him, is like Winky beating Trinidad now, and Barrera beating Kelly when he beat him, Camacho wasnt out of his prime, Trinidad beat him a year after Chavez did, and many belive some of Barrera vs. Morales fights should of been a draw. Lets not forget hes a midget too. You can distort things how you want, but your not fooling anyone.

Whitaker at prime lost to DLH, and beating him when Trinidad beat him, is like Winky beating Trinidad now, and Barrera beating Kelly when he beat him, Camacho wasnt out of his prime, Trinidad beat him a year after Chavez did, and many belive some of Barrera vs. Morales fights should of been a draw. Lets not forget hes a midget too. You can distort things how you want, but your not fooling anyone.

Whitaker wasnt at his prime when he fought delahoya...

So Trinidad loses to Winky Wright and all of a sudden he's old?

Whats up with "Trinidads back!"

A prime Trinidad would not win 1 round against Winky

You can distort things how you want, but your not fooling anyone.

it seems like everyone is distorting the truth, which you hold.

I thank you for sharing it with us

Whitaker wasnt at his prime when he fought delahoya...

Your only 16, go to sleep, Iam sure Whitaker was going around with a Kane when DLH beat him :rolleyes: .

Whitaker at prime lost to DLH, and beating him when Trinidad beat him, is like Winky beating Trinidad now, and Barrera beating Kelly when he beat him, Camacho wasnt out of his prime, Trinidad beat him a year after Chavez did, and many belive some of Barrera vs. Morales fights should of been a draw. Lets not forget hes a midget too. You can distort things how you want, but your not fooling anyone.


Who am I trying to fool here? YOU??? Trust me your knowledge of the sport doesn't threaten me to the point where I'd try to fool you with trickery or lies...


Whitaker was 2 weight classes above his best weight when he fought DLH, he was doing coke around the same time, and his skills were starting to diminish. Pernell was VERY hittable at 147, he was no longer the enigma that he was at 135 and 140. He was still a very game opponent for DLH, but he wasn't a complete terror like he used to be. HE WAS NOT IN HIS PRIME FOR DLH OR TRINIDAD. Ask any sensable person on this site and they'll tell you the same.

When he fought Tito it was almost sad for me, because his skills were so badly shot and he couldn't do the things that made him so great before. He was over the hill and still showed a lot of heart in the ring fighting Tito til the end. Whitaker is my favorite fighter ever, he was NOT in any shape to be fighting Trinidad there. That fight comes nowhere close to Barerras win over Hamed.

Tito's win over DLH was a win in the record books but was a loss in the minds of the majority of all people who aren't PR. I personally thought DLH was a coward, and I thought the fight should have been scored a draw, but Trinidad did NOT beat DLH, Oscar beat himself.

Why do you keep saying the midget thing? It has nothing to do with anything that these guys weigh 20 pounds less than Trinidad.

Camacho was not at his best for Trinidad either and had already had hard fights against Haugen, Chavez, Pazienza, Mancini, Davis and Rosario. He was 32 or 33 at the time and had slowed way down.

Beating two all-time great fighters in their primes in Hamed and Morales x2 is better than anything Trinidad has ever done in his career plain and simple.

Your only 16, go to sleep, Iam sure Whitaker was going around with a Kane when DLH beat him :rolleyes: .
Prime sweat pea would beat dlh and tito

I'm 16...whats your point?

From what I noticed I know more than u do..

Wow, now thaweakest and Oldfart are going to chart down a list of excuses for Trinidads W's, and a list of achivements for Barrera, and Chavez, real nice :rolleyes: , I guess Trinidad couldnt do right but everything the others did went smooth, or is it I dont dwell on excuses as much as you guys?

Wow, now thaweakest and Oldfart are going to chart down a list of excuses for Trinidads W's, and a list of achivements for Barrera, and Chavez, real nice :rolleyes: , I guess Trinidad couldnt do right but everything the others did went smooth, or is it I dont dwell on excuses as much as you guys?

It's just that u so damn biased

Just cuz Boxrec rated Trinidad #1 welterweight of all time dont mean ****

the rest of the world rates sugar ray robinson #1

It's just that u so damn biased

Just cuz Boxrec rated Trinidad #1 welterweight of all time dont mean ****

the rest of the world rates sugar ray robinson #1
I see a 16 year old kid up Haglers butt, not even your time, yet you know more about him than fighters of your own era, I live in the present and right now I'm giving cerdit to Tito Trinidad, probaly one of the most talked about fighters (W/Tyson,DLH,Roy Jones) of this gerneration, by "real" boxing fans. :D

I see a 16 year old kid up Haglers butt, not even your time, yet you know more about him than fighters of your own era, I live in the present and right now I'm giving cerdit to Tito Trinidad, probaly one of the most talked about fighters (W/Tyson,DLH,Roy Jones) of this gerneration, by "real" boxing fans. :D
Quit sayin I'm 16 whats that got to do with anything

Tysons shot Dlhs Shot Roy Jones is Shot

and Trinidad is overrated

Can you not handle facts or what kid?

Trinidad has great wins over Vargas, Reid, Carr, Campas, and Joppy.

He has also beaten Whitaker, DLH, Camacho, and Mayorga. He was a great 3 div champion and incredible 2 fisted punching power. Everyone knows that he's great and has been one of the best fighters of the last 15 years.

Nobody is trying to discredit Trinidad here. We know how great he was, it's just that Barerras career has been better. It's very debateable, but Barerra has done more.

One thing I wanna mention

What does Trinidad have other than power?
Take away his power and what would he have left?

Thats his only strength

Can you not handle facts or what kid?
Trinidad has great wins over Vargas, Reid, Carr, Campas, and Joppy.
He has also beaten Whitaker, DLH, Camacho, and Mayorga. He was a great 3 div champion and incredible 2 fisted punching power. Everyone knows that he's great and has been one of the best fighters of the last 15 years.
Nobody is trying to discredit Trinidad here. We know how great he was, it's just that Barerras career has been better. It's very debateable, but Barerra has done more.
Well, you allready discerdited him by saying his win over Morales and Hammed were enough to make him better, doesnt make sense but whatever bro, he is so great, nobody can say why hes great, he just is I guess.

Wow, now thaweakest and Oldfart are going to chart down a list of excuses for Trinidads W's, and a list of achivements for Barrera, and Chavez, real nice :rolleyes: , I guess Trinidad couldnt do right but everything the others did went smooth, or is it I dont dwell on excuses as much as you guys?


I cant stand you you stupid asz biased little nuthugging *****!! You are so fuc*ing annoying.. Stop pumping your country on this board.. Your country is a joke and so are it's fighters.. Trinidad is overrated.. He is a very very dumb man.. I guess that's genetic though since Puerto Rico really hasnt contributed anything to the betterment of mankind.. OK ***** go ahead and call me a hater but truth hurts!! Camacho and his ***** son both have loud mouths.. Tito has a loud mouth too.. Coincidence? How many Mexican fighters run their yaps like that.. Go dwell in your little corner of insignificance.. No matter how loud you or your country people talk you will always be gutless little *****es..whtether it's Titos crying and running like a ***** after his loses, or Camacho burglarizing a computer store....PROVE ME WRONG.. TELL ME NOW ***** 3 PUERTO RICAN CONTRIBUTIONS TO MANKIND.. AS AN ITALIAN I HAVE MUCH MORE TO BE proud of than you ever will yet I dont run my mouth all day like an asz about it.. So come on you little Boricua ***** lets debate the facts

Well Puerto Rico has better boxers than Mexico, that does it for me. :D
Check profile.

Well Puerto Rico has better boxers than Mexico, that does it for me. :D
Check profile.
Mexicos top ten

beats Puerto Ricans top 10

Well, you allready discerdited him by saying his win over Morales and Hammed were enough to make him better, doesnt make sense but whatever bro, he is so great, nobody can say why hes great, he just is I guess.


This makes no sense. I said that we aren't trying to discredit TRINIDAD.

Saying that Barreras wins over Morales and Hamed are better than Trinidads best wins isn't as much discrediting Trinidad as it is CREDITING Barrera.

If I wanted to discredit Trinidad I would have said that he fought a young David Reid, got a gift decision against DLH, fought a young Vargas, is one dimensional, cannot beat great boxers, retires like a ***** whenever he loses, fouls other fighters when he thinks that he might lose, etc...

I'm not saying ANY of this though. Trinidad is great...Barrera was just better. I already told you why Barrera was better...you just won't listen to me.

If you look at them they are somewhat similar...both have taken on great comp, both are fearless, both are 3 division champs. Barrera has more wins, Trinidad has a better KO ratio...etc etc. To distinguish between their very similar, very even careers though, is the fact that Barrera has beaten two all-time great fighters IN THEIR PRIMES. Theres no debating this. One of the decisions against Morales was questionable, but this is an entirely different issue. Trinidad has beaten one. Barrera has also made 2 comebacks after losses to beat these 2 all-time greats. Tito's comeback effort included beating a past his best Mayorga and losing a complete shut-out to Winky Wright.

Well, you allready discerdited him by saying his win over Morales and Hammed were enough to make him better, doesnt make sense but whatever bro, he is so great, nobody can say why hes great, he just is I guess.


People have been stating what Barrera has done that makes him great. Do you disagree that Barrera is a great fighter? I don't see you giving reasons why Tito is better than Barrera. I just see you complaining about everyone that has picked Barrera as the better fighter P4P. This isnt about Puerto Rico vs. Mexico, it's about 2 fighters. Everyone hates on you and borikua because you guys are so biased towards Tito, why dont you explain why you think Tito is greater than Barrera other than the fact that Tito is Puerto Rican?

I cant stand you you stupid asz biased little nuthugging *****!! You are so fuc*ing annoying.. Stop pumping your country on this board.. Your country is a joke and so are it's fighters.. Trinidad is overrated.. He is a very very dumb man.. I guess that's genetic though since Puerto Rico really hasnt contributed anything to the betterment of mankind.. OK ***** go ahead and call me a hater but truth hurts!! Camacho and his ***** son both have loud mouths.. Tito has a loud mouth too.. Coincidence? How many Mexican fighters run their yaps like that.. Go dwell in your little corner of insignificance.. No matter how loud you or your country people talk you will always be gutless little *****es..whtether it's Titos crying and running like a ***** after his loses, or Camacho burglarizing a computer store....PROVE ME WRONG.. TELL ME NOW ***** 3 PUERTO RICAN CONTRIBUTIONS TO MANKIND.. AS AN ITALIAN I HAVE MUCH MORE TO BE proud of than you ever will yet I dont run my mouth all day like an asz about it.. So come on you little Boricua ***** lets debate the facts

He may be biased, but this post is uncalled for homie.

This makes no sense. I said that we aren't trying to discredit TRINIDAD.

Saying that Barreras wins over Morales and Hamed are better than Trinidads best wins isn't as much discrediting Trinidad as it is CREDITING Barrera.

If I wanted to discredit Trinidad I would have said that he fought a young David Reid, got a gift decision against DLH, fought a young Vargas, is one dimensional, cannot beat great boxers, retires like a ***** whenever he loses, fouls other fighters when he thinks that he might lose, etc...

I'm not saying ANY of this though. Trinidad is great...Barrera was just better. I already told you why Barrera was better...you just won't listen to me.

If you look at them they are somewhat similar...both have taken on great comp, both are fearless, both are 3 division champs. Barrera has more wins, Trinidad has a better KO ratio...etc etc. To distinguish between their very similar, very even careers though, is the fact that Barrera has beaten two all-time great fighters IN THEIR PRIMES. Theres no debating this. One of the decisions against Morales was questionable, but this is an entirely different issue. Trinidad has beaten one. Barrera has also made 2 comebacks after losses to beat these 2 all-time greats. Tito's comeback effort included beating a past his best Mayorga and losing a complete shut-out to Winky Wright.



Barrera beat two hall of fame fighters in their prime.. Cheato didnt beat any Hall of fame fighters in their prime.. Well he did beat DLH for the last four rounds.. So my question is how can a man dominate for 8 rounds and then lose a decison when he hasnt even been knocked down? Tito very well be the most overrated fighter of this era next to Hamed

IwatchBoxing, LOOK:

People have been stating what Barrera has done that makes him great. Do you disagree that Barrera is a great fighter? I don't see you giving reasons why Tito is better than Barrera. I just see you complaining about everyone that has picked Barrera as the better fighter P4P. This isnt about Puerto Rico vs. Mexico, it's about 2 fighters. Everyone hates on you and borikua because you guys are so biased towards Tito, why dont you explain why you think Tito is greater than Barrera other than the fact that Tito is Puerto Rican?

People have been stating what Barrera has done that makes him great. Do you disagree that Barrera is a great fighter? I don't see you giving reasons why Tito is better than Barrera. I just see you complaining about everyone that has picked Barrera as the better fighter P4P. This isnt about Puerto Rico vs. Mexico, it's about 2 fighters. Everyone hates on you and borikua because you guys are so biased towards Tito, why dont you explain why you think Tito is greater than Barrera other than the fact that Tito is Puerto Rican?
I was just pointing out legacy wise Trinidad is better than him, Morales, Chavez, all that P4P **** I dont really care about cause a Barrera would not exsist at Welterweight, its just how the divsion is, he would be another Vargas basicly.

I was just pointing out legacy wise Trinidad is better than him, Morales, Chavez, all that P4P **** I dont really care about cause a Barrera would not exsist at Welterweight, its just how the divsion is, he would be another Vargas basicly.


WHY legacy-wise? Why? Dont just say it, explain it. I used P4P because they are not the same weight class and could never fighter each other. I want their legacies to be compared. How is Tito's legacy better than Tito's? Why dont you explain yourself? I'm going with Barrera on this one, mainly because I agree with a lot that Oldgringo says, and even though I know your biased towards Tito, I'm willing to hear you explain why you think his legacy is better than Barrera. So are you going to explain?

WHY legacy-wise? Why? Dont just say it, explain it. I used P4P because they are not the same weight class and could never fighter each other. I want their legacies to be compared. How is Tito's legacy better than Tito's?


Trinidads legacy.. Quitting, cheating, and losing to real fighters!!

Trinidads legacy.. Quitting, cheating, and losing to real fighters!!


All you are doing is ****ing up the debate...and providing IWB more fuel to be biased...

I cant stand you you stupid asz biased little nuthugging *****!! You are so fuc*ing annoying.. Stop pumping your country on this board.. Your country is a joke and so are it's fighters.. Trinidad is overrated.. He is a very very dumb man.. I guess that's genetic though since Puerto Rico really hasnt contributed anything to the betterment of mankind.. OK ***** go ahead and call me a hater but truth hurts!! Camacho and his ***** son both have loud mouths.. Tito has a loud mouth too.. Coincidence? How many Mexican fighters run their yaps like that.. Go dwell in your little corner of insignificance.. No matter how loud you or your country people talk you will always be gutless little *****es..whtether it's Titos crying and running like a ***** after his loses, or Camacho burglarizing a computer store....PROVE ME WRONG.. TELL ME NOW ***** 3 PUERTO RICAN CONTRIBUTIONS TO MANKIND.. AS AN ITALIAN I HAVE MUCH MORE TO BE proud of than you ever will yet I dont run my mouth all day like an asz about it.. So come on you little Boricua ***** lets debate the facts

I thought this **** was over. Some things never change.

I was just pointing out legacy wise Trinidad is better than him, Morales, Chavez, all that P4P **** I dont really care about cause a Barrera would not exsist at Welterweight, its just how the divsion is, he would be another Vargas basicly.


If Barrera were a natural Welter with an adjusted 147 pound body and carried all of his skills at that weight he'd be a ****ing monster.

All you are doing is ****ing up the debate...and providing IWB more fuel to be biased...


Im not ****ing anything up.. Im just lowering myself to his level because thats all he understands.. You have already debated the **** out of him.. He is not going to listen rationally to anything in your debate anyway.. His mind is so blinded, and his ways are set in stone in regards to Tito.. You are wasting your time with him.. Exciter and Borikua would be better candidates for having your debate with, IWB is not worthy of your time

WHY legacy-wise? Why? Dont just say it, explain it. I used P4P because they are not the same weight class and could never fighter each other. I want their legacies to be compared. How is Tito's legacy better than Tito's?
1)Trinidad weighs more than 100 pounds, and is taller than 5 feet, making him more elite in real life.

2)Trinidad has moved up three dangerous weights, packed with dangerous fighters, not skipping one.

3)Wether some people want to admit it or not, he beat prime'd great fighters/boxers, and could aslo box at Welterweight, making 17 title defenses against only the best.

4)People say hes one dimensional, he is dumb, blah blah, but all that recent findings wont and aint touching his record, that speaks for itself that he is more than a Pacman.

Im not ****ing anything up.. Im just lowering myself to his level because thats all he understands.. You have already debated the **** out of him.. He is not going to listen rationally to anything in your debate anyway.. His mind is so blinded, and his ways are set in stone in regards to Tito.. You are wasting your time with him.. Exciter and Borikua would be better candidates for having your debate with, IWB is not worthy of your time


fair enough. im sorry for calling you out then.

1)Trinidad weighs more than 100 pounds, and is taller than 5 feet, making him more elite in real life.

2)Trinidad has moved up three dangerous weights, packed with dangerous fighters, not skipping one.

3)Wether some people want to admit it or not, he beat prime'd great fighters/boxers, and could aslo box at Welterweight, making 17 title defenses against only the best.

4)People say hes one dimensional, he is dumb, blah blah, but all that recent findings wont and aint touching his record, that
speaks for itself that he is more than a Pacman.

Are you that biased?

Or that big of a moron?

His more than 100 pounds n makes him more elite in real life>
17 title defenses....Why u look at numbers so much

"Sugar" Ray Robinson didnt have the greatest record but he would KO Trinidad in less than 3

Records don't mean ****...

I thought this **** was over. Some things never change.


Your little Organizational queer started it.. Doesnt he realize that given unjust due and minimizing other fighters in doing so is biased and racist!! I'm just trying to understand how that kid thinks!! Rocky Marciano retired undefeated and was ten times better than Tito ever was.. Do I say Marciano is the greatest heavyweight ..? NO.. But I can guarantee you that if IWB feels Tito is the greatest welterweight of all time, hed think Marciano if he was Puerto Rican would be the greatest HW of alltime.. He is a disgrace to your organizTIOn!!

At least Borikua and Exiterx22 ain't biased and actually got open minds and don't say moronic things like IWATCHBOXING

(watch IWATCHBOXING come say "Your only 16." Well a 16 year old got more logic than you)

Your little Organizational queer started it.. Doesnt he realize that given unjust due and minimizing other fighters in doing so is biased and racist!! I'm just trying to understand how that kid thinks!! Rocky Marciano retired undefeated and was ten times better than Tito ever was.. Do I say Marciano is the greatest heavyweight ..? NO.. But I can guarantee you that if IWB feels Tito is the greatest welterweight of all time, hed think Marciano if he was Puerto Rican would be the greatest HW of alltime.. He is a disgrace to your organizTIOn!!

What I don't like is how you keep criticizing our country. If you have an argument with someone, regardless of his/her nationality, you should keep it between you and that person. I don't think that the country should be blamed for anything.

1)Trinidad weighs more than 100 pounds, and is taller than 5 feet, making him more elite in real life. Are you ****ing serious? (Ok, Butterbean is larger than Tito in real life, so he is more elite?)

2)Trinidad has moved up three dangerous weights, packed with dangerous fighters, not skipping one. (That's more logical)

3)Wether some people want to admit it or not, he beat prime'd great fighters/boxers, and could aslo box at Welterweight, making 17 title defenses against only the best. (I know about his great 17 defenses, which Prime fighters did he beat? Good point though)

4)People say hes one dimensional, he is dumb, blah blah, but all that recent findings wont and aint touching his record, that speaks for itself that he is more than a Pacman.

(Whether you like it or not, Tito is One-dimensional, but that dimension is one hell of a dimension and has built his legacy with that. If you disagree that Tito can't handle a smart boxer and adapt, then you are too biased for me to debate with. Oscar ran, Tito did nothing to change the fight Oscar gave it away. Tito did nothing to change his style to put himself in a position to win against Hopkins or Wright. If he cant go face to face and slug, he doesnt know what to do. That's obvious. I hope you dont disagree with that.)

Thats more like it, Tito is a great fighter. However due to his lack of adapting and not handling adversity well (unable to adapt against smarter boxers, quitting after both his losses instead of coming back stronger like Barrera has), I still go with Barrera. He can adapt to his opponent, and he has come back stronger than ever after his defeats. He ducks no one and is techically one of the most intelligent boxers in the ring I've ever seen.

Borikua shouldn't be in this, he can actually debate rationally and take other peoples points of view into consideration. I've debated with him about Trinidad before and he's perfectly capable of forming a logical argument. Just so you know...

What I don't like is how you keep criticizing our country. If you have an argument with someone, regardless of his/her nationality, you should keep it between you and that person. I don't think that the country should be blamed for anything.



When he puts Tito ahead of Ray Leonard and SRR he discredits two African American fighters.. Thats the ultimate form of biasness and racism right there.. As an Italian if I put Marciano(who was undefeated) ahead of Joe Louis and Ali..that is disrespectful to them.. I wont do that.. I have class, something IWB doesnt

What I don't like is how you keep criticizing our country. If you have an argument with someone, regardless of his/her nationality, you should keep it between you and that person. I don't think that the country should be blamed for anything.

That's true to but I feel as24, it really does get ****in annoying...People like IWB are a discgrace to your country man..

You and Borikua dont run around saying PUERTO RICO #1!!!!

You 2 are the cool boricuas on here and IWB is a discgrace man

and your country has nothin to do with him..he's just mental or some bull****

Puerto Rico does have some great humble fighters like gomez, benitez and calderon

I met Calderon right b4 his fight on the barrera undercard and he was hella cool and nice to me n ****

When he puts Tito ahead of Ray Leonard and SRR he discredits two African American fighters.. Thats the ultimate form of biasness and racism right there.. As an Italian if I put Marciano(who was undefeated) ahead of Joe Louis and Ali..that is disrespectful to them.. I wont do that.. I have class, something IWB doesnt

Ok, you are entitled to your opinion. So is IWB and so am I. Now I ask you something, When have I said that I hate Italy or that Italians are chicken**** mobsters or anything? I have never done it. Why? Because I don't hate Italians, just like I don't hate Mexicans, Filipinos, Africans, or anyone. All I ask for is that these race wars end, because they do not bring anything productive to this boxing forum.

Thats more like it, Tito is a great fighter. However due to his lack of adapting and not handling adversity well (unable to adapt against smarter boxers, quitting after both his losses instead of coming back stronger like Barrera has), I still go with Barrera. He can adapt to his opponent, and he has come back stronger than ever after his defeats. He ducks no one and is techically one of the most intelligent boxers in the ring I've ever seen.
Those two loses shouldnt count against him, since you can say he came from behind to win the DLH fight, and came back from 8 or something knockdowns to win a fight, he can adapt well, he just hit the end of his streak with Hopkins, but I understand what you saying.

When he puts Tito ahead of Ray Leonard and SRR he discredits two African American fighters.. Thats the ultimate form of biasness and racism right there.. As an Italian if I put Marciano(who was undefeated) ahead of Joe Louis and Ali..that is disrespectful to them.. I wont do that.. I have class, something IWB doesnt


The first part would be very biased you're right. I wouldn't have too many problems if you put Marciano ahead of Louis and Ali though...even though I don't agree with it there are a lot of people who have Marciano being the greatest HW fighter ever. Thats a far cry from saying Tito is better than SRL or SRR...just to give you my opinion.

Those two loses shouldnt count against him, since you can say he came from behind to win the DLH fight, and came back from 8 or something knockdowns to win a fight, he can adapt well, he just hit the end of his streak with Hopkins.

I dont see why his 2 losses shouldnt count

You act like a loss means your done

He lost cuz not once did he fight a decent boxer

except DLH who beat him

Those two loses shouldnt count against him, since you can say he came from behind to win the DLH fight, and came back from 8 or something knockdowns to win a fight, he can adapt well, he just hit the end of his streak with Hopkins, but I understand what you saying.


He didn't adapt to DLH though. He was very uncomfortable the eintire fight and couldn't do anything to Oscar. Oscar gave the fight away by running like a *****. It's not like Tito shut DLH's movement down and pummeled him...neither of those ****ers deserved to win that fight. That should have been a draw...

I don't agree with anyone who says that DLH dominated the first 8 rounds either. I had it 6-5-1 for DLH but it should have been a draw now that I think about it.

He didn't adapt to DLH though. He was very uncomfortable the eintire fight and couldn't do anything to Oscar. Oscar gave the fight away by running like a *****. It's not like Tito shut DLH's movement down and pummeled him...neither of those ****ers deserved to win that fight. That should have been a draw...
I don't agree with anyone who says that DLH dominated the first 8 rounds either. I had it 6-5-1 for DLH but it should have been a draw now that I think about it.
What did Chavez do with Taylor? Wasnt it his power that got him that lucky save by the ref? Trinidad just never had a rematch before, thats all.

What did Chavez do with Taylor? Wasnt it his power that got him that lucky save by the ref? Trinidad just never had a rematch before, thats all.

are you comparing chavez-taylor with dlh-tito?

are you comparing chavez-taylor with dlh-tito?
Its the same thing, both were Don King operated and both had a puncher vs boxer that came short, just Taylor stood to fight instead of run, think about it.

Its the same thing, both were Don King operated and both had a puncher vs boxer that came short, just Taylor stood to fight instead of run, think about it.

and both were dk-controversial... doubtful stoppage, ridiculous scoring

so you are suggesting that dlh would have been in danger of ending up like taylor in that fight?

What did Chavez do with Taylor? Wasnt it his power that got him that lucky save by the ref? Trinidad just never had a rematch before, thats all.


They're nothing alike. One was the greatest fight in the history of boxing between two complete warriors and the other was one of the worst fights in the history of the sport between a guy who only wanted to fight for 8-9 rounds and a guy who couldn't beat or do anything to the guy who only wanted to fight for only 8-9 rounds.

You aren't making your case by making this comparison.

and both were dk-controversial... doubtful stoppage, ridiculous scoring

so you are suggesting that dlh would have been in danger of ending up like taylor in that fight?
Maybe not, if he had stood to fight maybe, who knows, but what did Chavez do to adapt to Taylor when he was getting his "ears boxed off"? We only know what he did in a rematch, but Trinidad hasnt had one.

What I don't like is how you keep criticizing our country. If you have an argument with someone, regardless of his/her nationality, you should keep it between you and that person. I don't think that the country should be blamed for anything.

When he shoves Puerto Rico in everyones face all day what am I supposed to do.. Ok.. I suppose you'd like me to be alittle more tactful.. From now on I'll say some **** like " Hello Mr. I watch Boxing Sir.. I've noticed that you hold your country in invariably a very high esteem. I feel that by you doing this you are imposing your disposition that Puerto Rico is invariably superior on the rest of us mere mortals.. My italian heritage is a virtuous one.. I feel very proud and honored of it , yet I feel it unjust and classless to force it undoubtedly upon others in this forum.. Your flagrant and excessive commercialization of your heritage is I feel excessive and unjust due compared to the accomplishments of my heritage and my people throughout the course of history...

Maybe not, if he had stood to fight maybe, who knows, but what did Chavez do to adapt to Taylor when he was getting his "ears boxed off"?

destroyed his body with a slow meticolous work, which led to taylor to piss pure blood after the fight, to have multiple facial fractures after chavez reached the head in the later rounds, to be ruined forever.

did tito do that? no he went head hunting for most of the rounds he fought in his career.

face it tito is an at most average inside fighter, chavez was one of the greatest.

to top the cake
taylor and dlh fought different fights against chavez and tito.
chavez was already in his 3rd weight class, tito was in his "prime" class: 147

Maybe not, if he had stood to fight maybe, who knows, but what did Chavez do to adapt to Taylor when he was getting his "ears boxed off"? We only know what he did in a rematch, but Trinidad hasnt had one.


Chavez was hitting Taylor with big shots all night. Hence the broken ribs, facial bones, cuts inside the mouth, internal bleeding, bruising, etc...

DLH didn't have a scratch on him.

Chavez didn't really adapt to Taylor and Taylor fought the better fight. Chavez actually got to Taylor throughout the fight though.

Tito just showed that he could get outboxed for 7 rounds and DLH showed that he's an idiot who likes to give away fights.

Maybe not, if he had stood to fight maybe, who knows, but what did Chavez do to adapt to Taylor when he was getting his "ears boxed off"? We only know what he did in a rematch, but Trinidad hasnt had one.

oh i forgot the rematch part

taylor was never the same after the chavez fight, permanently damaged

dlh was not hurt

so tell me how the rematch would be so different

When he shoves Puerto Rico in everyones face all day what am I supposed to do.. Ok.. I suppose you'd like me to be alittle more tactful.. From now on I'll say some **** like " Hello Mr. I watch Boxing Sir.. I've noticed that you hold your country in invariably a very high esteem. I feel that by you doing this you are imposing your disposition that Puerto Rico is invariably superior on the rest of us mere mortals.. My italian heritage is a virtuous one.. I feel very proud and honored of it , yet I feel it unjust and classless to force it undoubtedly upon others in this forum.. Your flagrant and excessive commercialization of your heritage is I feel excessive and unjust due compared to the accomplishments of my heritage and my people throughout the course of history...


How about not mentioning countries or races at all? How about keeping it strictly boxing?

Chavez was hitting Taylor with big shots all night. Hence the broken ribs, facial bones, cuts inside the mouth, internal bleeding, bruising, etc...

DLH didn't have a scratch on him.

Chavez didn't really adapt to Taylor and Taylor fought the better fight. Chavez actually got to Taylor throughout the fight though.

Tito just showed that he could get outboxed for 7 rounds and DLH showed that he's an idiot who likes to give away fights.

hey we are having the same debate and writing the same thing, I have to go now so I will subscribe anything you say from now on.

later

Anybody else notice the 33 Barrera votes to Titos 12 or whatever? I thought it'd be closer than that. Just goes to show what the general consensus is...

destroyed his body with a slow meticolous work, which led to taylor to piss pure blood after the fight, to have multiple facial fractures after chavez reached the head in the later rounds, to be ruined forever.

did tito do that? no he went head hunting for most of the rounds he fought in his career.

face it tito is an at most average inside fighter, chavez was one of the greatest.

to top the cake
taylor and dlh fought different fights against chavez and tito.
chavez was already in his 3rd weight class, tito was in his "prime" class: 147Making your opponet piss blood isnt a sign of having great boxing skills, its a sign of freak power, Trinidad at Welterweight wasnt known for having power, he was known for boxing if you had listened to the annoucers they said he was even masterful or something, and the skill level between Chavez and DLH is big, just ask Chavez when he quit against the light hitter in the 4th RD.

How about not mentioning countries or races at all? How about keeping it strictly boxing?



I like that idea!! I am not biased and I know that you arent ..as you have an Italian in your avatar!! He is the one that you should be having this discussion with.. He has done more to discredit Tito and puerto Rico and your organization than anyone on here who argues with him ever could!!

wmute after reading his last post im officially done. I think everyone has said their peace and this is a done deal.

I like that idea!! I am not biased and I know that you arent ..as you have an Italian in your avatar!! He is the one that you should be having this discussion with.. He has done more to discredit Tito and puerto Rico and your organization than anyone on here who argues with him ever could!!

De Niro, Pacino, and Stallone kick ass.

if you had listened to the annoucers

now you are entering the BS world

excuse but why should I listen to the announcers?

and maybe we listened to different announcers with different opinions, considering that I did not live in the US until sept it is very possible

and trinidad was always known for his power, don't give me this crap now to get out of the corner where you out yourself as usual

and you don't need to be the heaviest banger in the world to get someone to piss blood, you need decent pop and to be well disciplined, chavez was powerful but IMO his biggest asset were his pressure, chin and infigthing

Post Winky, I must go with Barrera.

barrera is off to a great year. their are talks of him fighting feden, the australian champ. if he pull this one up, he will jack up his P4P standing

I go Barrera, for the meere fact it is how a warrior gets up, after being knocked down.

Tito is a cry baby, he loses to hopkins and retires, he comes back and fights a blown up Mayorga, then gets whooped by Winky Wright.

but barrerra gets, smashed by Pacquio and comes back and not only beats more challengers but takes out morales agin to be champ.

So in my opinion Barerra easily

I go Barrera, for the meere fact it is how a warrior gets up, after being knocked down.

but barrerra gets, smashed by Pacquio and comes back and not only beats more challengers but takes out morales agin to be champ.

So in my opinion Barerra easily


I agree with this portion of your post. I dont think Tito is a crybaby, he just doesnt know how to adapt. Getting up from Knockdowns to win isnt adapting, he didnt do anything different when he got up, he just outfought his opponent. "Adapting" is changing your strategy, something that Oscar, Bernard and Winky proved. Its not a fluke if it happens more than once.

Thats an easy one. MAB of course-- I live in PR and Tito is still loved by many fans, but compared to Barrera's career and record he doesn't come close

Barrera could do a little more over all don't know if he is faster p4p ...wouldnt say he hits as hard p4p....chin about the same ...but his over all boxing skill his better so i pick Barrera but it's close and i woudn't put money on a fight between them