View Full Version : 64 Liston vs 74 Ali


T3dBundy
03-12-2010, 06:28 AM
i would favour liston, i think without alis perfekt footwork its impossible for him to avoid listons left hook and jab, and i dont see how the rope a dope works against the big bear.
what do u think ?

The Beatles
03-12-2010, 06:36 AM
interesting......if you believe Liston was a bigger puncher than Earnie Shavers, George Foreman, Ron Lyle or Joe Frazier.....than Liston might stand a chance but.....but Liston ain't outboxing Ali and if he can't KO him.....Ali for the win IMO

my question is, do you think Liston was a bigger puncher than Shavers and Foreman?

T3dBundy
03-12-2010, 06:46 AM
interesting......if you believe Liston was a bigger puncher than Earnie Shavers, George Foreman, Ron Lyle or Joe Frazier.....than Liston might stand a chance but.....but Liston ain't outboxing Ali and if he can't KO him.....Ali for the win IMO

my question is, do you think Liston was a bigger puncher than Shavers and Foreman?

i respect your opinion, but comparing liston with shavers is a no-go.
shavers got knocked out in the first round against jerry quarry, and after the first 4 rounds his punching power slowed down radically.
most people thought ali got stronger with age because he reached his physical prime and had a bigger bone structure, but however alis punching power didnt increase.
he wouldnt have the firepower to keep liston off of him, without his 64 footwork i think i would favour liston.

sonnyboyx2
03-12-2010, 06:48 AM
interesting......if you believe Liston was a bigger puncher than Earnie Shavers, George Foreman, Ron Lyle or Joe Frazier.....than Liston might stand a chance but.....but Liston ain't outboxing Ali and if he can't KO him.....Ali for the win IMO

my question is, do you think Liston was a bigger puncher than Shavers and Foreman?

Yes i would say Liston was a bigger puncher than Shavers and on-par with Foreman.. Liston does not get the credit he deserves for his boxing ability, he had proberbly the best jab in history along with devastating power in his hooks and right-hands.. Ali without his footwork would lose a desicion to Liston.. The Sonny Liston who lost to Clay in 1964 lost to the greatest Heavyweight of all times...

The Beatles
03-12-2010, 06:50 AM
i respect your opinion, but comparing liston with shavers is a no-go.
shavers got knocked out in the first round against jerry quarry, and after the first 4 rounds his punching power slowed down radically.
most people thought ali got stronger with age because he reached his physical prime and had a bigger bone structure, but however alis punching power didnt increase.
he wouldnt have the firepower to keep liston off of him, without his 64 footwork i think i would favour liston.
i was only comparing Shavers and Liston's punching power....and who thought Ali's punching power would increase with age??? and he was far from his physical prime when he fought Shavers, if anything he was a shadow of his former self....

forget about shavers for a sec, do you think Liston is the biggest punching heavyweight in history??

T3dBundy
03-12-2010, 06:59 AM
i was only comparing Shavers and Liston's punching power....and who thought Ali's punching power would increase with age??? and he was far from his physical prime when he fought Shavers, if anything he was a shadow of his former self....

forget about shavers for a sec, do you think Liston is the biggest punching heavyweight in history??

yes, i think liston had the strongest left jab and left hook in the heavyweight history.
foreman had a stronger uppercut maybe, but their punching power is close overall i would say.
liston was a better boxer than foreman, ali would need more than that what he did against big george in 74 to beat liston.

i think alis head movement and footwork was the key to beat liston in 64.

The Beatles
03-12-2010, 07:03 AM
yes, i think liston had the strongest left jab and left hook in the heavyweight history.
foreman had a stronger uppercut maybe, but their punching power is close overall i would say.
liston was a better boxer than foreman, ali would need more than that what he did against big george in 74 to beat liston.

i think alis head movement and footwork was the key to beat liston in 64.
i agree....Liston was the overall better boxer than Foreman and had one of the best jabs in history, any weight class......but for me, the simple fact that Ali was never KO'd in his career by dynamite punchers even past his prime, leads me to believe the only way Liston can win will if he can outbox Ali and take a points decision....but somehow i don't see that happening.....but it is possible for sure, just not likely imo

bojangles1987
03-12-2010, 07:19 AM
I don't think 74 Ali would be able to withstand Liston that well. Would have been a rough night for him.

Sugarj
03-12-2010, 09:54 AM
It would be a tougher fight for the 1974 Ali no doubt, but I think Ali gets the decision.

People forget how good Ali was against Frazier in the 1974 return. He danced for most of the twelve rounds that night, he was still very mobile and fast on his feet.

The dancing strategy didn't work against Foreman, which is why Ali went to the ropes after the first round. But I think that after seeing Clay beat Liston in 1964 on the move, he probably would adopt a similar strategy to the second Frazier fight. He wouldn't be quite as fast or elusive as he was, but I think he would still have had enough to get the win.

TheGreatA
03-12-2010, 10:19 AM
Ali might do another Foreman on him. Liston was not in great shape by 1964, good enough to go 6 rounds but if he had an opponent in front of him that wouldn't go, he did not have the stamina to go until the late rounds.

Ali still had good footwork by 1974, watch him against Frazier, Norton, Quarry in rematches but against Foreman this was nullified because Foreman was great at cutting off the ring while Liston was far from great in that particular aspect, although he was a better boxer overall. Liston would hit Ali more than he could in 1964 but Ali took a great punch and was still quite difficult to land on in 1974, he evaded a lot of Foreman's punches.

The 1959-1960 Liston on the other hand might give Ali some problems but I still see Ali winning a decision.

Sugarj
03-12-2010, 10:34 AM
Good post GreatA.

Now, Liston vs post 1975 Thrilla in Manilla Ali might have been hard to call. Ali wasn't quite the same after that fight.

them_apples
03-12-2010, 01:20 PM
i respect your opinion, but comparing liston with shavers is a no-go.
shavers got knocked out in the first round against jerry quarry, and after the first 4 rounds his punching power slowed down radically.
most people thought ali got stronger with age because he reached his physical prime and had a bigger bone structure, but however alis punching power didnt increase.
he wouldnt have the firepower to keep liston off of him, without his 64 footwork i think i would favour liston.

Ali was a heavier puncher as he got older, but speed kills. He was quicker during his youth which produced the koes he got. I still got Ali over Liston. Liston would indeed give Ali more problems, but Ali would chin check him sooner or later like he did to Foreman.

billionaire
03-12-2010, 06:42 PM
1974 was alis best comeback year......but your kinda right alis head and foot movement was outta this world in 1964, so it wouldnt be as one sided.....