He was the most overrated rapper alive, any kid off the block loves him, many of his fans dont know a thing about him, for gods sakes i know more about him then the wannabe thugs at scool. He was overrated and is still overated.

If u disagree with me give me 5 reasons why he was good, and ill give u 5 why he was not, actual factual ones...
im not hating the guy, i jus think he is damn overated

Yeah...he mostly contradicted his self in many of his songs.
Lyrically he was weak.
Most of all his fans like him only because they can relate to him or they want to relate to him.
Biggie Smalls was the illest...I still have yet to see a rapper the calibur of Biggie..

Are you basing him being overrated on your not liking his music or are you going to break it down to a science here? Like disect his rhymestyle, breath control, lyrics, flavor, voice....etc etc?

most underrated yet the greatest is KRS-1
too good

Is this a "Tupac went to Juliard, Tupac was a roadie, etc. etc. thread?"

Contradictions - what do they have to do with someone's rapping?

What are the criteria?

Some people like to shoot down an obvious choice just to look cool - I'm sure that isn't what's going on here.

Help me out...

KRS-One is good lyrically - but surely moving records has to be part of the equation.

No one buys his stuff - there's a lack of connection to a large audience, which hurts that choice for #1.

His fans like to focus on so much of what he's saying and not how he's sounding...So I thought that you should notice how much he contradicts himself.

Yeah...he mostly contradicted his self in many of his songs.
Lyrically he was weak.
Most of all his fans like him only because they can relate to him or they want to relate to him.
Biggie Smalls was the illest...I still have yet to see a rapper the calibur of Biggie..

If you are saying you havent seen a better pure rapper than biggie?? Because all things considered....Kane, young LL and Ra all came harder than Big. Big has had the luxuries of nicer production with newer technology and shyte, but in terms of lyricism, flavor, voice, and the sheer uncanny ability to ride any beat like its butter....I think these dudes had him beat.

tupac wasnt a great lyricist but he is the most influential in the genre period. due to his massive fan base tupac can reach fans all over the globe.

KRS is tight and as far as live battle rapping he's untouched but the best I've ever heard are Kane and Rakim. So many new cats have based their cadence and rhyming after these two its sickening.

He showed multiple sides on records, though, and that actually enhanced his reputation. Dudes like Cypress Hill and Spice-1 (and many, many lesser artists) were one-trick ponys so their appeal was not as wide.

Really, Biggie didn't show much versatility, but then again didn't have as great a chance.

I loved "Party and Bull****" when I first heard the Who's the Man? soundtrack... I rank B.I.G. near the top; keep in mind, though, that Biggie was heavily influenced by Pac and modeled some of what ended up as Notorious trademarks after 2Pac. Biggie toured with Pac before his first disc came out

If you are saying you havent seen a better pure rapper than biggie?? Because all things considered....Kane, young LL and Ra all came harder than Big. Big has had the luxuries of nicer production with newer technology and shyte, but in terms of lyricism, flavor, voice, and the sheer uncanny ability to ride any beat like its butter....I think these dudes had him beat.

I disagree, but that's your opinion..
Biggie was one of the few rappers who said the unthinkable in his rhymes..

KRS is tight and as far as live battle rapping he's untouched but the best I've ever heard are Kane and Rakim. So many new cats have based their cadence and rhyming after these two its sickening.

Don't forget D.O.C. LL Cool J owes a lot to him...

Ok lets see what i can dig up from the dirt here

First of all, lets get one thing straight, i dont dislike the guy, i in fact, own 10 of his albums (if u want any PM me)

This guy is overrated on three simple things that u may not agree with

HE, lyrically, had nothing to say more than half the time, i coulda said the same things he sed in 3 albums instead of the 12+ he has.

He pretty much promoted "ghetto" way of life. Any kid u see off the street, tries acting tuff with u, and its 99.9% not there own choice. it comes from there peers and other things such as music. tupac, didnt directly promote being a thug, but wat did his rival do? always dis tupac (u know who im talkin about), talk about his guns, his women, how he miss treated his mother etc. and once fans of tupac hear that **** they act is if they are part of it.

Many ppl listen to him cos others do

Many rappers rap about him cos others do, AND it gets the audiences attention, altho these rappers have most likley neva even met the guy.

im not trying to get anyone to stop listenin to his music or anything, im jus saying hes overated and more than half his fans do not even know what tupac is actually based on.

I disagree, but that's your opinion..
Biggie was one of the few rappers who said the unthinkable in his rhymes..

"The unthinkable"

Like what - Biggie didn't come with a whole lot of original ideas or images, to be fair. And tracks like "Gimme the Loot" were actually censored by P. Diddy even on the unedited versions, so what was so unthinkable?

im gonna side with jack on this one. big imo was better than pac but big wasnt the greatest either. rakim was the complete package

Ok lets see what i can dig up from the dirt here

First of all, lets get one thing straight, i dont dislike the guy, i in fact, own 10 of his albums (if u want any PM me)

This guy is overrated on three simple things that u may not agree with

HE, lyrically, had nothing to say more than half the time, i coulda said the same things he sed in 3 albums instead of the 12+ he has.

He pretty much promoted "ghetto" way of life. Any kid u see off the street, tries acting tuff with u, and its 99.9% not there own choice. it comes from there peers and other things such as music. tupac, didnt directly promote being a thug, but wat did his rival do? always dis tupac (u know who im talkin about), talk about his guns, his women, how he miss treated his mother etc. and once fans of tupac hear that **** they act is if they are part of it.

Many ppl listen to him cos others do

Many rappers rap about him cos others do, AND it gets the audiences attention, altho these rappers have most likley neva even met the guy.

im not trying to get anyone to stop listenin to his music or anything, im jus saying hes overated and more than half his fans do not even know what tupac is actually based on.

so you don't like a good portion of 2Pac fans.

What does that have to do with him as an artist?

2Pac was intellectually on a different plane than Biggie. You'll never hear a "Keep Ya Head Up", "Panther Power", or "Brenda's got a Baby" on an early Biggie disc, and some of the Life After Death stuff that ripped it off was kinda weak.

im gonna side with jack on this one. big imo was better than pac but big wasnt the greatest either. rakim was the complete package

in the end it all depends on taste.
I listen to anything, but if i have a rakim album next to a tupac one, id listen to rakim
if i had krs next to rakim, id shoot myself...

Don't forget D.O.C. LL Cool J owes a lot to him...

LL owes a lot to a lot of people. He owes Marley Marl more than all of em for bringing his career back and producing his late 80's, early 90's second coming...I still think LL came on the scene with more relentless aggression and tenacity in his rhymes than any other rapper has.

im gonna side with jack on this one. big imo was better than pac but big wasnt the greatest either. rakim was the complete package


Rakim's not dead. Why isn't he over with rap fans right now?

so you don't like a good portion of 2Pac fans.

What does that have to do with him as an artist?

2Pac was intellectually on a different plane than Biggie. You'll never hear a "Keep Ya Head Up", "Panther Power", or "Brenda's got a Baby" on an early Biggie disc, and some of the Life After Death stuff that ripped it off was kinda weak.

i DID say overrated, i never sed the guy wasnt a good musician

"The unthinkable"

Like what - Biggie didn't come with a whole lot of original ideas or images, to be fair. And tracks like "Gimme the Loot" were actually censored by P. Diddy even on the unedited versions, so what was so unthinkable?

I thought Diddy had little control on that track...Suicidal thoughts was fresh and everyday struggle, although others have killed the subject, was done well. I think it spoke volumes of Biggie to be able to cross over so well being a big, fat, unnattractive black guy...

Rakim's not dead. Why isn't he over with rap fans right now?

cos he never rapped about guns.

Rakim's not dead. Why isn't he over with rap fans right now?

rakims planning a comeback. he is going to show the world what he is about.

rakims planning a comeback. he is going to show the world what he is about.

do u have the 18th leter and the book of life?

What's you guys's thoughts on...

E-40...

Del...

Redman...

Eminem...

Jay-Z...

LL...

Big Pun...

Erick Sermon...

Any other name you think deserves to be brought up on this thread...

I think Pac does get overrated by his fans and most of them didn't start listening to him until after he died. I don't think Pac is the best ever but he is definitely in my top three favorite rappers next to Scarface and Z-ro. I would say Rakim is the best and I would also say K-rino is probably the best most haven't heard of. K-rino is better than Biggie and Pac put together in my opinion. This man is the total package and it's just a shame he can't get played on the radio or that he doesn't attract the mainstream audience. Even here in Houston he is very overlooked for other artists like Paul Wall and Mike Jones which I just can't believe.

What's you guys's thoughts on...

E-40...

Del...

Redman...

Eminem...

Jay-Z...

LL...

Big Pun...

Erick Sermon...

Any other name you think deserves to be brought up on this thread...

Eminem (altho he isnt the greatest) deserves a mention
its tru, the guy came out of an all blak owned business and actually made some money

ill post about the rest, as for now i have to go to bed

E-40- Very underrated in my opinion and a Bay Area legend
Redman- Always comes with some nice albums. Muddy Waters was probably my favorite.
Eminem- Very good lyricist but I really don't care for his albums too much.
Jay-z- Probably one of the only mainstream artist out now I really like. Great Lyricist
LL- You won't see me picking up anything new but he is definitely one of the best lyricist ever.
Big Pun- Another great lyricist but passed away too soon to really make a call.

I think Pac does get overrated by his fans and most of them didn't start listening to him until after he died. I don't think Pac is the best ever but he is definitely in my top three favorite rappers next to Scarface and Z-ro. I would say Rakim is the best and I would also say K-rino is probably the best most haven't heard of. K-rino is better than Biggie and Pac put together in my opinion. This man is the total package and it's just a shame he can't get played on the radio or that he doesn't attract the mainstream audience. Even here in Houston he is very overlooked for other artists like Paul Wall and Mike Jones which I just can't believe.

Before he became a huge star, my small-town Indiana high school was passing around 2Pacalypse Now and Strictly 4 My *****Z on field trip rides on the bus. A lot of newer fans don't seek out the older rappers. They're too busy listening to freakin' Chingy or those Cash Money clowns.

I first heard about 2pac after I heard Soulja's Story from 2pacalypse Now. That's when I started to listen to him and it is true alot of his fans probably don't own his first two albums.

Finally a decent hip hop thread, even though it's about Pac.

Del is a legend in his own right, especially in Oak town...he just had a greatest hits album relaeased which is somewhat testament to his career. It has some unreleased B-sides and stuff.

I've voiced my opinions on LL before...

E-40 suffers from poor production sometimes, I agree that he's underrated. His first song I ever heard was "Slangin Yayo" believe it or not lol.

Redman is very talented and a lot of people get waylayed about his work because of his last efforts and television career. Muddy Waters and Docs Da Name were both great. BRICK CITY!

Em is a talented lyricist and does it as well as anyone when he wants to...but I don't like his production or his voice. I don't really get down on too much of his stuff and his latest album is wack IMO.

Pun was underrated and was one of the strongest lyricists of the 1990's. Capital Punishment was also underrated IMO...he could rip with the best of em.

I don't really feel like writing about Jay and Sermon...what needs to be said really? My favorite artist right now has to be Talib Kweli. I haven't heard anyone put more emotion into a track than him. He had a freestyle poem on Def Poetry that moved me. He is an excellent lyricist, can tell a story, and invests himself in his work.

Has anyone heard of The People Under The Stairs? If not I suggest you get some of their stuff or look it up or something. They come from the L.A./San Francisco area. They have some real head nod, relaxing hip hop. They are quite comical too. "I let my mind have fun, and let the drums do the bangin, on any given day like Mr. Cooper yo we hangin."

I dont think pac is overated at all, he was so popular because his fans could relate to him, he was the realest and had 2 very different sides to him. No doubt one of the most infulential rappers

E-40 is prob one the most underated out there 2day
Redman is a very talented arist, loved muddy waters
Pun was most definitly one the most skilled lyricists, too bad we didnt get too see more of him
and dont really feel jay z much

4 years ago i wooda sed some shyt like "TUPAC IS THE BEST. NAH FUK THAT, I DUN CARE." But that was wen i was stupid and tried and listened to hitemup all day. But i still think Pac is the greatest. But if ur talking in terms of breaking it down like flow, lyrics, energy etc, then pac isnt the greatest. nor is big. Interms of lyrics, i would say Big L is head and shoulders above everybody, with Nas behind. Flow I would say RAKIM, Notorious BIG, Big Pun or Jay-z ( and dont start hating, cause the **** in reasonable doubt is classic.). But then u cood also say KRS-1 is the greatest cause he started the **** and was the hardest at that time. But IMO rap is how much u feel the guy and how much of an impact he made to ur attitude and behaviour. Tupac made the biggest impact, and even though he contradicted himself, he showed everybody it was OK to do it. He was the realest.
But if ur trying to break this down and find out who is "technically" the greatest I'd probably say R.A.K.I.M.

I dont think pac is overated at all, he was so popular because his fans could relate to him, he was the realest and had 2 very different sides to him. No doubt one of the most infulential rappers

E-40 is prob one the most underated out there 2day
Redman is a very talented arist, loved muddy waters
Pun was most definitly one the most skilled lyricists, too bad we didnt get too see more of him
and dont really feel jay z much

How possibly can todays youth and some adult relate to tupac?
What did HE rap about that influenced many people?

listen to "hit em up" then "changes" and try
not to laugh at the contradictions.

alot of biggies rappin is lame..
he had the ability but wasted it with his so
called gangster image endorsed by piddy(p-diddy)

not really a pac or biggie fan
might download some rakim..only heard "know i got soul"

How possibly can todays youth and some adult relate to tupac?
What did HE rap about that influenced many people?

This will be influential for years and years to people who were even born after his death

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671028448/qid=1101997881/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-2835379-7616709