View Full Version : Meldrick Taylor's Career & Potential


Thread Stealer
03-05-2010, 09:38 PM
People often say Taylor could've been an ATG if not for the beating he took against Chavez but I really don't see it. I always see a short stay at the top of the sport for him.

I'm going with the assumption that the claims of his weight problems at 140 were legit. It's definitely not hard to envision him having problems making 140 with his stocky frame. He did make it later in 1994, but I think that was partially because he was simply desperate for a big fight and a chance at personal revenge with Chavez.

If he gets the win over Chavez, or never fights him at all, how much different does his career go? He goes to welterweight, wins the WBA title against Aaron Davis in 1991, but look at the talent level around him. Stable-mate Pernell Whitaker goes to WW a couple years later. Cristano Espana would've always been a touch matchup for Taylor IMO due to his style and dimensions (or Taylor's lackthereof). Ike Quartey and Felix Trinidad rose to the top of the WW scene in 1993/94. Simon Brown would've been a real dangerous opponent for Taylor with his power.

Taylor might've lasted a little longer at the top of the sport since there's less damage to the body, but with his style and the talent around him, I can't see his career going that much different in terms of his stay at the top.

Obama
03-05-2010, 09:48 PM
Sad to even bring a guy like Taylor into the discussion of ATGs. He's not even one of the 10 best fighters out of Philadelphia.

Anyways he makes the HOF if he skips the Chavez beating...

mhager91490
03-05-2010, 10:48 PM
Assuming he steps in the ring with the guys you listed and he misses Chavez altogether then it wouldn't of gone much different. I don't see him getting past Brown, Espana would of been a goo fight but I think he could of outscored him if he didn't get caught on the end of his long punches. He has a chance to beat Quartey though I wouldn't bet on him and I don't see him getting past Trinidad. The division was just too tough at the time for him too last long and I don't think he would ever the top dog of the division. For all of his exceptional qualities his deficencies leveled him out and against talented, bigger men.

CarlosG815
03-06-2010, 12:40 AM
Yes, Taylor was an incredible talent and had it not been for that fight I believe he could have been an ATG. The toll that defeat took on him mentally destroyed him.

He's one of my favorite fighters and we could have seen some spectacular fights from him had he not been robbed of his victory over a prime Chavez.

Taylor was awesome and to say he couldn't beat guys like Tito is kind of assuming something you have no way of knowing. How many guys like Taylor did Tito fight? I will say this. Tito could not have put up the performance against a prime Chavez that Meldrick did.

fdotorres
03-06-2010, 12:51 AM
Yes, Taylor was an incredible talent and had it not been for that fight I believe he could have been an ATG. The toll that defeat took on him mentally destroyed him.

He's one of my favorite fighters and we could have seen some spectacular fights from him had he not been robbed of his victory over a prime Chavez.

Taylor was awesome and to say he couldn't beat guys like Tito is kind of assuming something you have no way of knowing. How many guys like Taylor did Tito fight? I will say this. Tito could not have put up the performance against a prime Chavez that Meldrick did.

why did he get robbed? he was out on his fit and in no condition to go on

if you're done with just 5 seconds left, you're still gone and the fight should get stopped. that's how it is

CarlosG815
03-06-2010, 01:46 AM
why did he get robbed? he was out on his fit and in no condition to go on

if you're done with just 5 seconds left, you're still gone and the fight should get stopped. that's how it is

He had the fight in the bag. Had the ref not called it, by the time he was finished making sure Meldrick could continue, there would have been 3 seconds for him to just move or clinch and get the victory he earned.

No fighter should lose a fight in the last 3 seconds when they've won 35 minutes of war.

And BTW, that's not how it is. Show me another instance where such a crucial fight was stopped with such little amount of time left.

mhager91490
03-06-2010, 03:44 AM
why did he get robbed? he was out on his fit and in no condition to go on

if you're done with just 5 seconds left, you're still gone and the fight should get stopped. that's how it is

I'm a strong believer in letting the fighter finish the fight, not the ref. Taylor was up and talking to the ref, it was a bad call in my eyes.

BOLLOCKS
03-06-2010, 03:48 AM
Taylor should have won that fight. :nonono:

JAB5239
03-06-2010, 05:03 AM
He had the fight in the bag. Had the ref not called it, by the time he was finished making sure Meldrick could continue, there would have been 3 seconds for him to just move or clinch and get the victory he earned.

No fighter should lose a fight in the last 3 seconds when they've won 35 minutes of war.

And BTW, that's not how it is. Show me another instance where such a crucial fight was stopped with such little amount of time left.

He didn't have the fight in the bag and no fighter, I repeat, NO FIGHTER should be granted an exemption on the time clock because of the work they put in previously. Had he answered Steele's questions he would have won. He didn't. If Steele had let that fight go on he would have robbed Chavez who pulled victory out of the clutches of defeat.

Your other instance, off the top of my head, LaMotta stopping Dauthille with only 15 seconds left.

Refs shouldn't take the clock into consideration, only the fighters responses. I was rooting forv Taylor, but it was the right call.

bojangles1987
03-06-2010, 06:55 AM
why did he get robbed? he was out on his fit and in no condition to go on

if you're done with just 5 seconds left, you're still gone and the fight should get stopped. that's how it is

I know I didn't like it, Taylor got up and had the ref let it go Chavez wouldn't have been able to land another punch before the bell rang. Taylor was clearly winning and I felt he got screwed.

Thread Stealer
03-06-2010, 07:37 AM
Yes, Taylor was an incredible talent and had it not been for that fight I believe he could have been an ATG. The toll that defeat took on him mentally destroyed him.

He's one of my favorite fighters and we could have seen some spectacular fights from him had he not been robbed of his victory over a prime Chavez.

Taylor was awesome and to say he couldn't beat guys like Tito is kind of assuming something you have no way of knowing. How many guys like Taylor did Tito fight? I will say this. Tito could not have put up the performance against a prime Chavez that Meldrick did.

Trinidad would've beat up a prime Chavez. Not because he was a better/greater fighter, but simply because he was a big hard hitting WW, while Chavez peaked at LW and never really did anything of note at WW. Trinidad was too big and Chavez just didn't have the size/style to overcome it, even though Chavez was a better overall fighter.

Which goes back to the point of Taylor and size. It's pretty difficult to envision the smaller Taylor really staying at the top of the WW division with the talent around him and his style to mix it up even with it wasn't in his best interest. After Chavez, Taylor had the 2nd best win of his career agaisnt Davis, but the WW division was very stacked in the early and mid 90s. His management obviously wasn't the type to protect him. He faced Chavez after like 23 pro fights and they put him in there with the bigger, hard-hitting Norris right after Taylor had struggled with Glenwood Brown.

If Taylor really could've stayed at 140 and not have it compromise his performance, then I think he could've had a nice reign. If the stories of him having too much trouble at 140 and having to move up are true, and this is not hard to believe given his stocky frame, then he'd be in for a tall order with the talent around WW at the time.

Dynamite Kid
03-06-2010, 08:03 AM
People often say Taylor could've been an ATG if not for the beating he took against Chavez but I really don't see it. I always see a short stay at the top of the sport for him.

I'm going with the assumption that the claims of his weight problems at 140 were legit. It's definitely not hard to envision him having problems making 140 with his stocky frame. He did make it later in 1994, but I think that was partially because he was simply desperate for a big fight and a chance at personal revenge with Chavez.

If he gets the win over Chavez, or never fights him at all, how much different does his career go? He goes to welterweight, wins the WBA title against Aaron Davis in 1991, but look at the talent level around him. Stable-mate Pernell Whitaker goes to WW a couple years later. Cristano Espana would've always been a touch matchup for Taylor IMO due to his style and dimensions (or Taylor's lackthereof). Ike Quartey and Felix Trinidad rose to the top of the WW scene in 1993/94. Simon Brown would've been a real dangerous opponent for Taylor with his power.

Taylor might've lasted a little longer at the top of the sport since there's less damage to the body, but with his style and the talent around him, I can't see his career going that much different in terms of his stay at the top.


Agree. Larry Merchant said it accurately during the Espana fight, Taylor is too short for the weight to Box at range and does not have the power to demand respect at the higher weight, meaning he has to go inside against a bigger man to be effective or he stays out side and gets walked through ala Terry Norris because he does not have the power, well i think that is what he was saying, although its not word for word.

Mr.Crust
03-06-2010, 10:28 AM
I'm a strong believer in letting the fighter finish the fight, not the ref. Taylor was up and talking to the ref, it was a bad call in my eyes.
True,it was a mistake by Steele. I dont think there was anything screwy about it,and I wouldnt call it a robbery,but imo it was definitely a mistake,and thats the way it goes sometimes.

As good and as talented as Meldrick was,I am not so sure that he would have become an ATG,I think we would have fallen short in that regard.

crold1
03-06-2010, 12:09 PM
I'd say he couldn't have been an ATG because 1) he wasn't big enough to be effective at Welterweight and 2) he was better at 140. The only path to greatness at 140 was through Chavez, and he wasn't going to handle that because, even if he gets the two seconds, they end up in rematches and Chavez finishes what he started. Taylor's lucky it was a twelve round era. In fifteen, he might have gotten the benefit of the doubt in Chavez I and the physical toll would have been uglier than it was.

Still, fastest hands I have ever seen.

CarlosG815
03-06-2010, 02:41 PM
Refs shouldn't take the clock into consideration, only the fighters responses. I was rooting forv Taylor, but it was the right call.

It was one of the worst calls in boxing history. He was fully capable of finishing the fight.

crold1
03-06-2010, 02:57 PM
It was one of the worst calls in boxing history. He was fully capable of finishing the fight.

Then he should have acknowledged the referee and nodded he could go on. He was on queer street and Steele was right. Taylor won more rounds; Chavez won the fight.

bojangles1987
03-06-2010, 03:33 PM
Then he should have acknowledged the referee and nodded he could go on. He was on queer street and Steele was right. Taylor won more rounds; Chavez won the fight.

I think Taylor won more rounds AND the fight, but he exhausted everything he had doing so. Chavez caught up to him and took advantage, but bottom line is Chavez would not have been able to even throw another punch if the fight continues. There was no danger of anything worse happening to Taylor.

crold1
03-06-2010, 03:36 PM
I think Taylor won more rounds AND the fight, but he exhausted everything he had doing so. Chavez caught up to him and took advantage, but bottom line is Chavez would not have been able to even throw another punch if the fight continues. There was no danger of anything worse happening to Taylor.

Assuming Steele wasn't aware of how much time was left, the question to be asked was should Taylor take any more punishment. The answer was no. He was a beaten man whose only case was the clock. He looked like he'd been run over by a truck.

Dynamite Kid
03-06-2010, 03:45 PM
From what i recall im sure Taylor actually did answer Steele when asked if he was okay, cant remember if he nodded or said im okay but he did respond, however when Taylor looked across to Duva he decided to stop the fight despite Taylor apparently answering his question.

crold1
03-06-2010, 03:53 PM
From what i recall im sure Taylor actually did answer Steele when asked if he was okay, cant remember if he nodded or said im okay but he did respond, however when Taylor looked across to Duva he decided to stop the fight despite Taylor apparently answering his question.

Nope. He just stares blankly and looks over at the corner. Around the seven minute mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3aktPchPes

CarlosG815
03-06-2010, 03:56 PM
I think the look of his face was worse than it actually was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4fkqBvP244&feature=related

Terrible, terrible call. 2 seconds to go. Actually, after the standing 8 count it probably would have been over. Should have gone to the cards.

2 F'ing seconds. Wow.

Dynamite Kid
03-06-2010, 07:32 PM
Nope. He just stares blankly and looks over at the corner. Around the seven minute mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3aktPchPes

Well at 7.11 he looks to me like he nods to Steele slightly to acknowledge he is okay, difficult to tell from the angle if he says anything though, watch right before Steele gets close to look in his eyes.

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Dynamite Kid
03-06-2010, 07:36 PM
Duva says it to around 7.24, now i know Duva is going to say that anyway but it does look as though he does nod to acknowledge to Steele.

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One more round
03-06-2010, 10:11 PM
I hate watching that video, i just imagine myself as Meldrick, what a terrible feeling that must have been, **** Steele

JAB5239
03-06-2010, 10:19 PM
It was one of the worst calls in boxing history. He was fully capable of finishing the fight.

He wasn't even capable of a simple response.

JAB5239
03-06-2010, 10:22 PM
I think Taylor won more rounds AND the fight, but he exhausted everything he had doing so. Chavez caught up to him and took advantage, but bottom line is Chavez would not have been able to even throw another punch if the fight continues. There was no danger of anything worse happening to Taylor.

True, but its not the refs job to assess how much time is left. Had he responded to Steele's questions he would have won that fight. I feel for him, but he has no one to blame but himself.

TBear
03-07-2010, 12:01 AM
I remember the kid coming up, well he's not a kid anymore, but he was back then. He had probably the fastest hands I had seen in a long time. Meldrick, I did noticed slowed down later in fights. The longer a fight progressed the more he would throw arm punches. But his overall ability carried him through the distance. I remember hearing early in his career how the Duva stable already had a premere lightweight so Meldrick was moved up to 140.

I remember meeting him after the first Primo Ramos fight and he was very polite and fan friendly, unlike his stablemate Tyrell Biggs who looked at us and said, "I don't have time for this" and turned away brushing us off! Made me enjoy his fight later with Tyson even more!
Anyways, Meldrick Taylor continued to rise in the rankings and captured the IBF title.

Being a fan of Meldrick, do I think Steele stopped his unfication bout with Chavez incorrectly?

Well first, it was not that one right hand that had Meldrick down, it was 12 rounds of pressure and body punching. It was the final round of a grueling bout. Meldrick knew to protect himself at all times and was exhausted. Steel waited for a response and didn't recieve one. It would have been more wrong if Steele turned to the time keeper after the knockdown and asked "how much time left" giving Taylor time to recover and ran out the clock. So I say Steel did the right thing in stopping it, which does not erase the fact that it was unfortunite it ended as Meldrick was seconds away from victory but I feel now and I felt on that night that the call was right.

Ask yourself this, if the fight was scheduled for 15 or if the knockdown happened a minute earlier, would the outcome be different? I don't think so, Meldrick was really hurt and very tired.

bojangles1987
03-07-2010, 07:58 AM
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True, but its not the refs job to assess how much time is left. Had he responded to Steele's questions he would have won that fight. I feel for him, but he has no one to blame but himself.

Still, he should be somewhat aware of it. Taylor was out of it, but the fight was 2 SECONDS from being over. While Chavez did lay some punishment on Taylor, the knockdown felt more to me like Taylor just being too exhausted to stay on his feet, not like he was incredibly hurt. I disagree, what else can I say. That fight is a big reason I was never a Chavez fan and thought he was very overrated.

CarlosG815
03-07-2010, 11:11 AM
He wasn't even capable of a simple response.

I understand your point, and a lot of others feel the same way.

I feel if he had let the fight continue he would have caught much less slack.

Wasn't he never asked to ref. a fight again after that call?

That call, to me, was like the phantom foul called on bill lambeer all those years ago. Not something you do in a competition so important.

crold1
03-07-2010, 11:18 AM
I understand your point, and a lot of others feel the same way.

I feel if he had let the fight continue he would have caught much less slack.

Wasn't he never asked to ref. a fight again after that call?

That call, to me, was like the phantom foul called on bill lambeer all those years ago. Not something you do in a competition so important.

Steele reffed for many more years, retiring briefly after Mayweather-Corrales. I think the Steele call was exactly why he was there...refs have to make the tough calls. I have always understood the other side of the debate; agreed with it for years.

Then I saw the fight again years later and understood it in the light of endings like McClellan-Benn, Garcia-Ruelas etc. Taylor was a beaten man; badly beaten. Broken bones in his face, internal bleeding, a stay in the hospital after the fight. He looked better than he was which is a scary thought.

CarlosG815
03-07-2010, 12:20 PM
Steele reffed for many more years, retiring briefly after Mayweather-Corrales. I think the Steele call was exactly why he was there...refs have to make the tough calls. I have always understood the other side of the debate; agreed with it for years.

Then I saw the fight again years later and understood it in the light of endings like McClellan-Benn, Garcia-Ruelas etc. Taylor was a beaten man; badly beaten. Broken bones in his face, internal bleeding, a stay in the hospital after the fight. He looked better than he was which is a scary thought.

I can't remember the ref I'm thinking of, but you're right it wasn't Steele.

I do think that the time does matter. Had he given him a standing 8 count, the fight would have been over. I think the time on the clock does matter in a fight.

I think if that ref could take it back he would. He may not have realized how much time was left when he called it.

Dynamite Kid
03-07-2010, 01:27 PM
TBH i dont think you can question Steele's integrity on this stoppage, i know some people think Chavez being a Don King fighter might of had something to do with it but i genuinely feel Steele stopped the fight because Taylor did not answer his questions, listen if Taylor says yes im okay then Steele still waves if off, then! i would question his integrity.

All in all it might have been a mistake to stop the fight but people need to leave it be for what is was/is, a mistake, Steele made a judgment call in the heat of the moment on what he felt was right, you can say he got it wrong but i dont think he is no more guilty than Taylor for not responding.

Thread Stealer
05-31-2010, 06:53 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1118796/index.htm

January 28, 1991
A Hit Parade
Out to prove himself after his lone loss, Meldrick Taylor wrested the WBA welterweight title from Aaron Davis
Pat Putnam

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Meldrick Taylor learned his craft in a Philadelphia gym, which means he never learned to take a step backward. From the beginning of his career, he has been a warrior, and that aggressive style served him well through 25 fights until last March 17, when he went to graduate school in Las Vegas. The professor that night was wise old Julio C***65533;sar Ch***65533;vez, who taught Taylor, the 23-year-old undefeated International Boxing Federation junior welterweight champion, that when you are winning a fight going into the last round, you don't engage in any foolish attacks. Behind on points, Ch***65533;vez stopped a charging Taylor with two seconds left in the 12th round.

Last Saturday night in Atlantic City, Taylor proved to be an excellent student. Far ahead on all three officials' cards against World Boxing Association welterweight champion Aaron Davis, Taylor came out for the final round wearing track shoes. If he wasn't thinking of Ch***65533;vez, as he claimed later, then he must have been thinking of Carl Lewis. To catch Taylor, Davis would have needed a motorcycle.

"We told him to stay away from trouble, but that wasn't exactly what we had in mind," said a laughing George Benton, Taylor's trainer. "I told him I wanted him moving in a circle, to keep turning Davis, and not to jump on him. I didn't want him to run like that."

This was to be a stern test for Taylor. In his first fight after losing to Ch***65533;vez, he had not looked sharp while winning a 10-round decision last August over lightly regarded Primo Ramos. "Forget how he looked," said co-manager Lou Duva before the Davis fight. "He did what we hoped he'd do; he got his confidence back. After a knockout, you don't send a fighter in against a cannon. Now he's ready for anybody."

As a cannon, Davis qualified, having gone unbeaten in 32 fights, with 20 knockouts. He won the WBA title last July by knocking out Mark Breland—like Taylor a 1984 Olympic gold medalist. Davis had nearly a five-inch advantage in height and a 10-inch edge in reach over the 5'6***65533;" Taylor. Of course, he shouldn't have called Taylor a sissy in the week leading up to the fight at the Convention Center.

"He's got a big mouth," said Taylor. "He's called me a lot of names. He's mad because he's the champion, but I'm the one getting all the attention. He's aware people don't take him seriously. I'm excited about getting back in the ring and showing him I am still a great fighter. Then we will see how big his mouth is."

The angry Taylor punished the 3-to-l underdog champion with a savage body attack right from the opening bell. The lanky Davis needs room to punch; staying inside, Taylor gave him none. Blistering combinations, four, five and six punches at a clip, fired with blinding speed—rips to the body followed by uppercuts to the head—built a wide lead for Taylor. Not even being penalized a point for low blows by referee Arthur Mercante in the second round slowed Taylor.

Davis, a tough 23-year-old from the Bronx, recovered to mount an offensive in the middle rounds of the fight. Then he fell back again in the face of Taylor's assault. Though the judges had no problem picking a winner—Vincent Rainone and Phil Newman scored it 116-111, Frank Cairo 115-112—each of the game fighters earned his $525,000 purse.

"This is my weight: 147," said Taylor, now 26-1-1, after the fight. "I had a lot of problems making 140 pounds. Against Ch***65533;vez I fought the last three rounds dehydrated. I fought those rounds on heart alone. Even though I lost, as far as I'm concerned, I won. I beat him at his own game—inside. Now I feel more powerful. I want Ch***65533;vez to come up and fight me at this weight. I think we are the two best fighters in the world. Let him come up and we'll find out who is the best."

In June or July, Taylor is expected to make his first welterweight defense, against Luis Garcia of Venezuela, who is 21-0 and the WBA's top contender. "Then the only guy he wants is Ch***65533;vez—at 147 pounds," said Dan Duva, Taylor's promoter. "But we're not going to chase him. If Ch***65533;vez wants to make a lot of money, he has our phone number. He can call us."

At that, Taylor grinned. If the phone doesn't ring in Duva's office soon, the fighter from Philadelphia just might make a call himself. "Hey, Julio, what have you got planned for September...?"

Miburo
05-31-2010, 08:04 PM
Wouldn't have had a long career in any case fighting the way he did. Even if he had gotten the nod in the Chavez fight and not the psychological baggage that came with defeat, he took enough physical punishment that he may not have been at that peak again.

Bababoey970
05-31-2010, 08:35 PM
He had the fight in the bag. Had the ref not called it, by the time he was finished making sure Meldrick could continue, there would have been 3 seconds for him to just move or clinch and get the victory he earned.

No fighter should lose a fight in the last 3 seconds when they've won 35 minutes of war.

And BTW, that's not how it is. Show me another instance where such a crucial fight was stopped with such little amount of time left.

WATCH THE MOSELY VS MAYORGA FIGHT. YOU"LL SEE MAYORGA GET KTFO IN LESS THAN 4secs AFTER GETTING UP FROM A KNOCKDOWN.

Thread Stealer
06-10-2010, 04:01 AM
WATCH THE MOSELY VS MAYORGA FIGHT. YOU"LL SEE MAYORGA GET KTFO IN LESS THAN 4secs AFTER GETTING UP FROM A KNOCKDOWN.

Shane went Floyd Patterson on that left hook, leaping into it.

catalinul
06-10-2010, 05:33 AM
WATCH THE MOSELY VS MAYORGA FIGHT. YOU"LL SEE MAYORGA GET KTFO IN LESS THAN 4secs AFTER GETTING UP FROM A KNOCKDOWN.

Because the ref didn't send Mosley to the neutral corner though.

If he would have Shane would not have reached Mayorga.