View Full Version : Top 5 historical fights @ heavyweight?


JAB5239
03-04-2010, 06:16 PM
This is a shootoff from the most anticipated fights thread.

In your opinion what are the top 5 historical fights at heavyweight, and why? I'll wait to give my opinion, but here are some suggestions in no particular order.

Louis-Schmeling II
Johnson-Jeffries
Johnson-Burns
Sullivan-McCaffrey
Ali-Frazier 1
Tyson-Berbick
Marciano-Moore
Patterson-Moore
Dempsey-Carpentier
Holmes-Cooney

You don't need to use this list if you don't want to, I'd just like your opinions. :fing02:

Sugarj
03-04-2010, 06:22 PM
I'll add a few:

Dempsey vs Tunney 2

Ali vs Foreman

Ali vs Spinks 2

Tyson vs Spinks

Tyson vs Bruno 2 (people forget how big this was at the time)

JAB5239
03-04-2010, 06:28 PM
I'll add a few:

Dempsey vs Tunney 2

Ali vs Foreman

Ali vs Spinks 2

Tyson vs Spinks

Tyson vs Bruno 2 (people forget how big this was at the time)

Good call on Ali-Spinks 2. I'll also add Patterson-Johansonn 2 to the list.

Sugarj
03-04-2010, 06:35 PM
I nearly added Johannson vs Patterson 2, but as an event it wasn't as big as say..............Patterson vs Liston, even the president got words to Floyd on that one. Nobody had reclaimed the heavyweight title before then, and many doubted Floyd's chances.

1SILVA
03-04-2010, 06:51 PM
This is a shootoff from the most anticipated fights thread.

In your opinion what are the top 5 historical fights at heavyweight, and why? I'll wait to give my opinion, but here are some suggestions in no particular order.

Louis-Schmeling II
Johnson-Jeffries
Johnson-Burns
Sullivan-McCaffrey
Ali-Frazier 1
Tyson-Berbick
Marciano-Moore
Patterson-Moore
Dempsey-Carpentier
Holmes-Cooney

You don't need to use this list if you don't want to, I'd just like your opinions. :fing02:

Ali-Frazier I: Ali was the uncrowned champion coming out of exile and a very polarizing figure. Voted the greatest event ever held at Madison Square Garden. No fight garnered more press and attention.

Louis-Scmeling II: Hitler was out to prove that his Germans were the superior humans. First Jesse Owens, then Joe Louis, proved him to be an idiot.

Johnson-Jefferies: The only fight in which the U.S. Congress outlawed any more viewings of the fight that caused one of the worst one day racial bloodbaths in the history of the United States.

Holmes-Cooney: It was disgraceful how the promoters of this fight trumped it as a White vs Black fight. Equally disgraceful was Holmes being introduced first by the ring announcer. Fact is, Cooney was not in Holmes' league and had no business in the ring with Holmes. He never fully recovered from that fight, even though he had potential if brought along correctly.

Ali-Liston I: If Ali doesn't beat Liston, how different would boxing had been?

geribeetus
03-04-2010, 08:35 PM
a dempsey title fight was like 2 superbowls in one. dempsey carpentier had 91,000 in attendance. dempsey-firpo did almost 90k with another 20k trying to get in. dempsey-tunney 1 had 120k. considering the us population at the time those are pretty amazing numbers.

Joey Giardello
03-04-2010, 08:53 PM
Rocky Marciano vs Archie Moore the rock's last ever fight

bklynboy
03-04-2010, 10:38 PM
Holmes-Cooney: It was disgraceful how the promoters of this fight trumped it as a White vs Black fight. Equally disgraceful was Holmes being introduced first by the ring announcer. Fact is, Cooney was not in Holmes' league and had no business in the ring with Holmes. He never fully recovered from that fight, even though he had potential if brought along correctly.


Cooney also wanted no part of the "great white hope" hype that surrounded him. It bothered him greatly. I don't think he ever would have been a great fighter. He had talent and a punch but he didn't have the single-minded focus that he needed to become a champion.

1SILVA
03-04-2010, 11:08 PM
Cooney also wanted no part of the "great white hope" hype that surrounded him. It bothered him greatly. I don't think he ever would have been a great fighter. He had talent and a punch but he didn't have the single-minded focus that he needed to become a champion.

Excellent point. Cooney seemed to lack that hunger to take it to the next level. As for the hype, that was King and Rappaport who escalated the racial hype for the fight. Cooney was and is a true gentleman.

Rolling Stone
03-04-2010, 11:47 PM
Ali-Frazier I: Ali was the uncrowned champion coming out of exile and a very polarizing figure. Voted the greatest event ever held at Madison Square Garden. No fight garnered more press and attention.

Louis-Scmeling II: Hitler was out to prove that his Germans were the superior humans. First Jesse Owens, then Joe Louis, proved him to be an idiot.

Johnson-Jefferies: The only fight in which the U.S. Congress outlawed any more viewings of the fight that caused one of the worst one day racial bloodbaths in the history of the United States.

Holmes-Cooney: It was disgraceful how the promoters of this fight trumped it as a White vs Black fight. Equally disgraceful was Holmes being introduced first by the ring announcer. Fact is, Cooney was not in Holmes' league and had no business in the ring with Holmes. He never fully recovered from that fight, even though he had potential if brought along correctly.

Ali-Liston I: If Ali doesn't beat Liston, how different would boxing had been?
i agree with this guy...and good point about Ali vs Liston

sonnyboyx2
03-05-2010, 02:57 AM
Muhammad Ali vs George Foreman - The Rumble in the Jungle - was an incredibly huge fight and historically as big as any fight in history.

JAB5239
03-05-2010, 04:22 AM
Louis-Schmeling II
Johnson-Jeffries
Ali-Frazier I
Dempsey-Carpentier
Holmes-Cooney

GJC
03-05-2010, 12:01 PM
Taking fights purely in a historical context Sullivan v Corbett warrants consideration IMO.
Personally given the age I will miss that out as I don't think it would have had the impact in the public eye that others following it had.
Think you need to look on the HW's that dominated their era in and out the ring so for me that leaves Johnson,Dempey, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Holmes and Tyson

Starting with Johnson we are left with the Burns fight where finally a coloured fighter got his chance or Jeffries. I'm going to plump with Jeffries as I think in the public eye Burns was holding the title until the next dominant HW came along. The Jeffries fight established Johnson as the lineal champion was a huge fight in it's day with reprecussions that lasted for decades and proved to the more short sighted members of the public that a black man could compete with a white man.

Moving onto Dempsey we have to consider the Willard, Carpentier and Tunney fights.
As important as the Willard and Tunney fights were I have to plump for the first million dollar gate and build up of war hero v slacker that heralded the Carpentier fight.

Louis I think you can't look beyond the second Schmelling fight, not only the significance with regard to the coming war but also the fact that maybe for the first time the American public supported their fighter and took pride in the fighter in spite of his colour.
It is unfortunate to have to mention the colour aspect of both Johnson and Louis but tragically as seen by the careers of Jackson, Langford, Wills etc it was a huge and unfortunate factor in pre WW2 boxing.

Much as it pains me whilst you could consider a couple of Marciano fights I think the other 2 choices have to be Ali's. One has to be the first Frazier fight, THE fight of the century, the first time 2 undefeated HW champions fought for the title. The fact that the fight lived up to the hype was a bonus. Then I have to consider between his fights against Foreman, Spinks 2, Liston and for my money the greatest HW fight Frazier 3.
I'm going to plump for Liston 1 purely because it was such a huge shock and that it heralded the coming of "The Greatest" and the explosion of money and mainstream publicity that came with Ali. So:

Johnson v Jeffries
Dempsey Carpentier
Louis v Schmelling 2
Clay v Liston
Ali v Frazier

It does hurt to overlook the Rock, Holmes and Tyson as some of their fights were huge but I'm limited to 5 by the thread.

BattlingNelson
03-05-2010, 03:34 PM
My list off the top of my head:

1: Ali-Frazier I
2: Johnson-Jeffries
3: Louis-Schmeling II
4: Ali-Foreman
5: Tyson-Spinks.

JAB5239
03-05-2010, 03:48 PM
Taking fights purely in a historical context Sullivan v Corbett warrants consideration IMO.
Personally given the age I will miss that out as I don't think it would have had the impact in the public eye that others following it had.
Think you need to look on the HW's that dominated their era in and out the ring so for me that leaves Johnson,Dempey, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Holmes and Tyson

Starting with Johnson we are left with the Burns fight where finally a coloured fighter got his chance or Jeffries. I'm going to plump with Jeffries as I think in the public eye Burns was holding the title until the next dominant HW came along. The Jeffries fight established Johnson as the lineal champion was a huge fight in it's day with reprecussions that lasted for decades and proved to the more short sighted members of the public that a black man could compete with a white man.

Moving onto Dempsey we have to consider the Willard, Carpentier and Tunney fights.
As important as the Willard and Tunney fights were I have to plump for the first million dollar gate and build up of war hero v slacker that heralded the Carpentier fight.

Louis I think you can't look beyond the second Schmelling fight, not only the significance with regard to the coming war but also the fact that maybe for the first time the American public supported their fighter and took pride in the fighter in spite of his colour.
It is unfortunate to have to mention the colour aspect of both Johnson and Louis but tragically as seen by the careers of Jackson, Langford, Wills etc it was a huge and unfortunate factor in pre WW2 boxing.

Much as it pains me whilst you could consider a couple of Marciano fights I think the other 2 choices have to be Ali's. One has to be the first Frazier fight, THE fight of the century, the first time 2 undefeated HW champions fought for the title. The fact that the fight lived up to the hype was a bonus. Then I have to consider between his fights against Foreman, Spinks 2, Liston and for my money the greatest HW fight Frazier 3.
I'm going to plump for Liston 1 purely because it was such a huge shock and that it heralded the coming of "The Greatest" and the explosion of money and mainstream publicity that came with Ali. So:

Johnson v Jeffries
Dempsey Carpentier
Louis v Schmelling 2
Clay v Liston
Ali v Frazier

It does hurt to overlook the Rock, Holmes and Tyson as some of their fights were huge but I'm limited to 5 by the thread.

Excellent post, G!

Emon723
03-07-2010, 07:35 AM
I had a copy of Ring Magazine's 1990 issue, 10 significant fights in heavyweight history, now I'd choose at least 7 of them, because I cant decide which other two I'll left out on the list.

Johnson-Jeffries - historically significant
Tunney-Dempsey II - because of the "long count"
Louis-Schemling II - not only did Louis avenge his loss but to all those who opposed hitler.
Clay-Liston I - great upset
Frazier-Ali I - this was, as always the Superfight
Ali-Foreman - the Greatest fought the second coming of Liston
Spinks-Holmes - larry was going to tie Marciano's record.

excluded were Marciano's title-winning effort against Walcott, Patterson becoming the first HW to regain his title, and Douglas upset of Mike Tyson.
I feel Tyson-Spinks had more historical sense than Iron Mike losing his title to Douglas on the upset of the century.