View Full Version : What Is The Biggest ''Duck'' In The History Of Boxing?


Southpaw16BF
03-03-2010, 12:19 PM
Only one pick allowed

What in your opinion is the single biggest duck in the history of boxing?

Rosseboi
03-03-2010, 12:27 PM
I always resented Riddick Bowe ducking Lewis because I've always felt he was massively overated.

musiol
03-03-2010, 12:36 PM
a fit bowe aint overated

sonnyboyx2
03-03-2010, 12:56 PM
I always resented Riddick Bowe ducking Lewis because I've always felt he was massively overated.

i go for Lewis `pricing himself out`of a Bowe fight in 93

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0eins2DhSo

1SILVA
03-03-2010, 01:41 PM
Only one pick allowed

What in your opinion is the single biggest duck in the history of boxing?

Every 175 pound champion who ducked Ezzard Charles in the 1940's.

mickey malone
03-03-2010, 01:55 PM
Robinson Burley

sonnyboyx2
03-03-2010, 02:44 PM
Robinson Burley

do you have a link for this as i am of the opinion that Robinson ducked no-one, i just cannot see why he would duck Burley, IMO it would be a piece-of-piss for him to beat Burley

BritishBoxing92
03-03-2010, 03:06 PM
I always resented Riddick Bowe ducking Lewis because I've always felt he was massively overated.

Yeah that one came to mind as well..

NChristo
03-03-2010, 03:11 PM
Foreman and Tyson

Junito-Rulez
03-03-2010, 03:25 PM
1) Sugar Ray Leonard vs Hagler rematch

2) Floyd and Margarito.

3) Floyd and Cotto.

4) RJJ and Michalczewski.

5) Haye and Wladimir.

6) Oscar and Vernon Forrest.

7) Pavlik and P-will.

8) Ottke's career

9) Calzaghe's career

10) Marquez and Hamed

Joey Giardello
03-03-2010, 05:48 PM
Oscar, Winky Wright, Mayorga and Mayweather all avoided a prime margartio

Junito-Rulez
03-03-2010, 08:31 PM
Oscar, Winky Wright, Mayorga and Mayweather all avoided a prime margartio

True that but Winky and Mayorga both fought a much tougher fighter in a 160 pounds Tito Trinidad. Mayorga fought Mosley, DLH, Spinks, Forrest and Vargas. What was so special about Margarito that'd make him scarier than those dudes.

Winky fought Bernard Hopkins and Paul Williams, both are bigger challenges and more dangerous than Margarito.

Juicy J
03-03-2010, 10:57 PM
def bowe duckin lewis

Bigdaddy_Vh
03-03-2010, 11:01 PM
first one that came to mind

Bowe-Lewis

crold1
03-03-2010, 11:37 PM
i go for Lewis `pricing himself out`of a Bowe fight in 93

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0eins2DhSo

It was a little bit of both. Rock Newman admitted as much on the Bowe-Holyfield trilogy Ringside show. It was simple really: a big enough fight being milked into a BIG fight (and Lewis-Bowe was not BIG beyond fight fan circles in 93) and it backfired. If Bowe wins the Holy rematch those two are in the ring by 94.

sonnyboyx2
03-04-2010, 03:51 AM
It was a little bit of both. Rock Newman admitted as much on the Bowe-Holyfield trilogy Ringside show. It was simple really: a big enough fight being milked into a BIG fight (and Lewis-Bowe was not BIG beyond fight fan circles in 93) and it backfired. If Bowe wins the Holy rematch those two are in the ring by 94.

Lewis turned down $10 million in 1995 to fight Bowe when neither held a belt.... the bottom line is Lewis never wanted anything to do with Riddick Bowe

DR.ORGYY
03-04-2010, 03:58 AM
yea floyd ducking cotto was pretty bad......

gibo
03-04-2010, 04:53 AM
Pacquiao refusing to drug test while standing to earn more that 25 million dollars, against an opponant he has a good chance of beating spells "DUCK"

sonnyboyx2
03-04-2010, 07:48 AM
Pacquiao refusing to drug test while standing to earn more that 25 million dollars, against an opponant he has a good chance of beating spells "DUCK"

more like $40 million +

Rolling Stone
03-04-2010, 08:17 AM
more like $40 million +
more like $100 mil

sonnyboyx2
03-04-2010, 09:43 AM
more like $100 mil

yes quite correct

mickey malone
03-04-2010, 01:45 PM
do you have a link for this as i am of the opinion that Robinson ducked no-one, i just cannot see why he would duck Burley, IMO it would be a piece-of-piss for him to beat Burley
I've had a good look at all the links available on Burley and it's mainly majority opinion that many fighters incliuding Zale, LaMotta and Robinson all steered well clear of him.. In one link titled, The Mysterious Charley Burley, the author, who I haven't heard of, quotes a ringside conversation between Robinson and Futch, in which Robinson is supposed to have said, "Im far too pretty to be getting in there with Charley Burley." Although this could be hear-say, it is very strange that they never fought..
The Cyber Boxing Zone also makes a point of stating Robinson's reluctance to get it on, but once again, I'm not sure on the credibility of the writer.. However, there's no smoke without fire and there's plenty of smoke here, so it would be nice to know, "Why didn't Ray Robinson fight Charley Burley?"..

Obama
03-04-2010, 02:08 PM
yea floyd ducking cotto was pretty bad......

People seem to forget it was Cotto who ducked Floyd back at 140 lbs.

The whole point of the Bruseles fight was to get Cotto in the ring. Bruseles was Cotto's stable mate, and Cotto actually predicted Bruseles would win. After Mayweather completely destroyed Cotto, camp Cotto no longer had interest in the fight.

As for Floyd ducking him at 147, Cotto never even called him out. How do you duck someone who has expressed no personal interest to fight you?

These guys called Floyd out at 147:
Margarito
Williams
Baldomir
Hatton
Clottey
Mosley

Floyd will have fought 3 of the 6 shortly.

Jim Jeffries
03-04-2010, 02:15 PM
People seem to forget it was Cotto who ducked Floyd back at 140 lbs.

The whole point of the Bruseles fight was to get Cotto in the ring. Bruseles was Cotto's stable mate, and Cotto actually predicted Bruseles would win. After Mayweather completely destroyed Cotto, camp Cotto no longer had interest in the fight.

As for Floyd ducking him at 147, Cotto never even called him out. How do you duck someone who has expressed no personal interest to fight you?

These guys called Floyd out at 147:
Margarito
Williams
Baldomir
Hatton
Clottey
Mosley

Floyd will have fought 3 of the 6 shortly.

And here I thought Hatton was at 140 when he called Floyd out.

Castillo fight, "you've just seen more action here in 4 rounds than in Floyd's whole career," ring any bells?

Mosley's heading for 39 and won't have been in the ring for almost a year and a half.

Baldomir? Are you kidding me?

Obama
03-04-2010, 05:44 PM
And here I thought Hatton was at 140 when he called Floyd out.

Castillo fight, "you've just seen more action here in 4 rounds than in Floyd's whole career," ring any bells?

Mosley's heading for 39 and won't have been in the ring for almost a year and a half.

Baldomir? Are you kidding me?

I didn't say Hatton's last fight was at 147 when he called Mayweather out, I said he wanted him AT 147. Hatton wanted Floyd at 147 for the WW title, consequently having his JWW title to fall back on should he come up short. He never wanted Floyd at 140. In fact when Hatton beat Tszyu, Mayweather tried to get a fight with Ricky but his daddy said no.

What's the point of your comments about Mosley and Baldomir? All I did was list people who called Mayweather out for a WW showdown, they did. Mayweather fought / is fighting them. That's the bottom line.

Only 2 people Mayweather flat out ducked completely @ 147, and that's Williams and Clottey. Al Haymon doesn't want Williams and Mayweather fighting since he's their manager. And Clottey, no one even complains about Mayweather ducking him yet it's the only case he really has no defense for besides the money.

gibo
03-05-2010, 03:48 AM
People seem to forget it was Cotto who ducked Floyd back at 140 lbs.

The whole point of the Bruseles fight was to get Cotto in the ring. Bruseles was Cotto's stable mate, and Cotto actually predicted Bruseles would win. After Mayweather completely destroyed Cotto, camp Cotto no longer had interest in the fight.

As for Floyd ducking him at 147, Cotto never even called him out. How do you duck someone who has expressed no personal interest to fight you?

These guys called Floyd out at 147:
Margarito
Williams
Baldomir
Hatton
Clottey
Mosley

Floyd will have fought 3 of the 6 shortly.

Cotto has never ducked anyone. He has always said his next fight is up to his managers and promoters!!!! Cotto ducking away from any fight, has never happened my friend! SORRY

Thread Stealer
03-05-2010, 04:00 AM
I've had a good look at all the links available on Burley and it's mainly majority opinion that many fighters incliuding Zale, LaMotta and Robinson all steered well clear of him.. In one link titled, The Mysterious Charley Burley, the author, who I haven't heard of, quotes a ringside conversation between Robinson and Futch, in which Robinson is supposed to have said, "Im far too pretty to be getting in there with Charley Burley." Although this could be hear-say, it is very strange that they never fought..
The Cyber Boxing Zone also makes a point of stating Robinson's reluctance to get it on, but once again, I'm not sure on the credibility of the writer.. However, there's no smoke without fire and there's plenty of smoke here, so it would be nice to know, "Why didn't Ray Robinson fight Charley Burley?"..

Both Robinson & Burley fought on a card in the Midwest, promoters wanted to build up some hype for it, but Robinson priced himself out. He originally wanted $25k, then doubled his demand to $50k.

Burley never blamed Ray, recognizing the business aspect of the sport, and expressed awe at how a great fighter Ray was. He said he would've done the same thing and avoided Ray if he were in that position because it wasn't worth the risk.

I started a thread awhile ago on this, it had Burley's exact quote from a book about him.

General Zod
03-05-2010, 08:06 AM
i go for Lewis `pricing himself out`of a Bowe fight in 93

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0eins2DhSo
No, Lewis didn't.

Off the top of my Head: Bernard Hopkins

istmeno
03-05-2010, 12:18 PM
People seem to forget it was Cotto who ducked Floyd back at 140 lbs.

The whole point of the Bruseles fight was to get Cotto in the ring. Bruseles was Cotto's stable mate, and Cotto actually predicted Bruseles would win. After Mayweather completely destroyed Cotto, camp Cotto no longer had interest in the fight.

As for Floyd ducking him at 147, Cotto never even called him out. How do you duck someone who has expressed no personal interest to fight you?

These guys called Floyd out at 147:
Margarito
Williams
Baldomir
Hatton
Clottey
Mosley

Floyd will have fought 3 of the 6 shortly.this would probably hold water except for the fact that floyd himself said back then that cotto was too green. and the bruselles fight was the eliminator for the title shot at gatti. so if you can explain how after the wbc eliminator he would somehow fight the wbo champion, then your theory may have some credibility.

revisionist history is not based in fact

AKATheMack
03-05-2010, 12:41 PM
DLH-Winky. I don't blame Oscar in the least tho he had very good reasons to not want it.

sonnyboyx2
03-05-2010, 12:43 PM
No, Lewis didn't.

Off the top of my Head: Bernard Hopkins

So in your opinion Riddick Bowe is sitting there telling fuukin lies then

GJC
03-05-2010, 01:05 PM
So in your opinion Riddick Bowe is sitting there telling fuukin lies then
Sonny without rehashing the whole Bowe Lewis thing you've been round the block enough to know that boxers are the biggest history revisionists going. Bowe if he is wouldn't be the first boxer to put his own individual slant on something would he? It just comes down to who you believe really

Toney616
03-05-2010, 01:29 PM
DLH-Winky. I don't blame Oscar in the least tho he had very good reasons to not want it.
Oscar offered Winky the fight and Wright turned it down. He said the money wasnt good enough, he was offered 8m by Oscar

General Zod
03-05-2010, 01:34 PM
So in your opinion Riddick Bowe is sitting there telling fuukin lies then
Why should I believe Bowe, or any other boxer for that matter? I remember Bowe coming to England and dumping his WBC belt in the bin. I also remember how dreadful his title defences were, Bowe didnt want to fight a top opponent after he got the belts. He only took the Evander II fight because he thought he could win again and after that look at how his career went.

AKATheMack
03-05-2010, 01:47 PM
Oscar offered Winky the fight and Wright turned it down. He said the money wasnt good enough, he was offered 8m by Oscar

There are lots of stories that are told about that offer and by 2005 Winky had been calling DLH out for some time. Like I said I dont blame Oscar for not taking the fight Winky was a no name spoiler who wouldnt bring much money and would probably have beaten DLH. DLH has a great track record of always fighting the best so in no way am I trying to **** on him I just feel he knew Winky wasnt worth the risk for the amount of money he'd bring to the table.

General Zod
03-05-2010, 01:53 PM
There are lots of stories that are told about that offer and by 2005 Winky had been calling DLH out for some time. Like I said I dont blame Oscar for not taking the fight Winky was a no name spoiler who wouldnt bring much money and would probably have beaten DLH. DLH has a great track record of always fighting the best so in no way am I trying to **** on him I just feel he knew Winky wasnt worth the risk for the amount of money he'd bring to the table.

I made a thread about it a couple of months ago:
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=358622

Toney616
03-05-2010, 02:44 PM
So in your opinion Riddick Bowe is sitting there telling fuukin lies then
Boxers lie all the time, especially when it comes to losing fights and ducking opponents. Bowe also says he is healthy enough to continue boxing, can I assume you believe that as well?

AKATheMack
03-05-2010, 03:07 PM
I made a thread about it a couple of months ago:
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=358622

First off no way would I turn down 6mil to fight anyone, but at the time that offer was made Winky was on a 10 fight winning streak and in his prior 3 fights had beaten Mosleyx2 and Felix Trinidad, Oscar on the other hand had just lost to Mosley, had a controversial win over Sturm and been KOd by Hopkins in his prior 3 fights. I dislike fighters pricing themselves out of fights, but take into consideration where each fighter was in their career and why Winky would think he deserved a bigger piece of the pie. Winky had also been calling out DLH for several years at this point and at this point it was ALL about money seeing as beating a fighter who went 1-2 in his last 3 is hardly career defining.

Toney616
03-05-2010, 03:27 PM
First off no way would I turn down 6mil to fight anyone, but at the time that offer was made Winky was on a 10 fight winning streak and in his prior 3 fights had beaten Mosleyx2 and Felix Trinidad, Oscar on the other hand had just lost to Mosley, had a controversial win over Sturm and been KOd by Hopkins in his prior 3 fights. I dislike fighters pricing themselves out of fights, but take into consideration where each fighter was in their career and why Winky would think he deserved a bigger piece of the pie. Winky had also been calling out DLH for several years at this point and at this point it was ALL about money seeing as beating a fighter who went 1-2 in his last 3 is hardly career defining.
Im sure Oscar could of offered him more, but at the end of the day Oscar was the draw not Winky

AKATheMack
03-05-2010, 04:16 PM
Im sure Oscar could of offered him more, but at the end of the day Oscar was the draw not Winky

Which goes right back to why I dont think Oscar wanted to fight Winky. Winky is way too tough of an opponent for the money he brings to the table.

Toney616
03-05-2010, 04:37 PM
Which goes right back to why I dont think Oscar wanted to fight Winky. Winky is way too tough of an opponent for the money he brings to the table.
Winky should of just accepted it, he was in a win win situation. How can you turn down 8m? He wasnt going to get that kind of money fighting anyone else also he would of probably beat Oscar as well.

TOBYLEE1
03-05-2010, 04:41 PM
DLH wouldn't even mention Tszyu, most ppl at MW avoided Mike McCallum

Toney616
03-05-2010, 04:56 PM
DLH wouldn't even mention Tszyu, most ppl at MW avoided Mike McCallum
Yeah its a shame about McCallum, he never got any of the big fights, none of those guys wanted to face him

AKATheMack
03-05-2010, 09:56 PM
Winky should of just accepted it, he was in a win win situation. How can you turn down 8m? He wasnt going to get that kind of money fighting anyone else also he would of probably beat Oscar as well.

I agree he should have taken it. I would any fighter in the world for $1000, but he was justified in asking for more money Oscar was the challenger. Winky was the champ at 154 and had looked like a world beater in his prior 3, while DLH looked like a fighter who best was behind him.

Thread Stealer
03-05-2010, 10:20 PM
most ppl at MW avoided Mike McCallum

It was more at 154. McCallum never got his shot at Hagler for the MW title, but Mike was an 154 lb. fighter at that time anyway (other than over-the-limit, stay busy fights against overmatched opponents).

He was totally the odd man out at 154 compared to the big names in Hearns and Duran, and Leonard fighting on and off as well. He was Duran's mandatory but Duran dropped his belt to fight Hearns. McCallum got mad at Steward for that and left the Kronk gym, and took pleasure later on in beating another Kronk fighter in McCory.

Obama
03-05-2010, 10:59 PM
Cotto has never ducked anyone. He has always said his next fight is up to his managers and promoters!!!! Cotto ducking away from any fight, has never happened my friend! SORRY

His managers/promoters ducked fighters for him, happy now? They're one in the same to me, the fighter always has the final say.

this would probably hold water except for the fact that floyd himself said back then that cotto was too green. and the bruselles fight was the eliminator for the title shot at gatti. so if you can explain how after the wbc eliminator he would somehow fight the wbo champion, then your theory may have some credibility.

revisionist history is not based in fact

Floyd didn't say Cotto was too green until he got that explanation from camp Cotto. Floyd didn't have to fight Bruseles for the eliminator, he was simply killing two birds with one stone. And who fought the WBO Champion? Bruseles and Floyd never fought for a WBO World title. Cotto was already WBO Champion at the time too. Floyd was fighting Gatti after Bruseles regardless, Cotto was just being set up for the next victim. Both Cotto and Hatton attended the Gatti fight too. Both declined to fight him after Gatti's destruction.

Toney616
03-06-2010, 10:02 AM
It was more at 154. McCallum never got his shot at Hagler for the MW title, but Mike was an 154 lb. fighter at that time anyway (other than over-the-limit, stay busy fights against overmatched opponents).


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T.Horton
03-06-2010, 10:17 AM
jack dempsey - anybody black.
jacj johnson - anybody black after winning title. namely langford.

boxing_great
03-06-2010, 10:27 AM
leonard ducking pryor

Thread Stealer
03-06-2010, 10:36 AM
leonard ducking pryor

When will this stupid Legendary Nights myth go away?

Pryor was offered a fight with Leonard, and Duran as well. He was the one who turned down the offer, unhappy with the offer of half a million, which while relatively low, was 10 times his previous career high.

Thread Stealer
03-06-2010, 10:38 AM
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That reminds me of what Tyson said regarding Robinson and Armstrong. Armstrong telling Ray, if he had so much respect for him, to fight him and help him make some money.

I'm not overly critical of Hagler though since McCallum was in another division. I think it's a bonus rather than an obligation to fight champs in a lower division. If a guy moves up and makes his mark in that division, then it's a totally different story.

General Zod
03-06-2010, 10:39 AM
jack dempsey - anybody black.
jack johnson - anybody black after winning title. namely langford.
Jack Johnson was a strange guy, thats for sure

General Zod
03-06-2010, 10:41 AM
I'm not overly critical of Hagler though since McCallum was in another division. I think it's a bonus rather than an obligation to fight champs in a lower division. If a guy moves up and makes his mark in that division, then it's a totally different story.
Good point, but Hagler did call out: Hearns, Duran, Leonard and Benitez

General Zod
03-06-2010, 10:44 AM
Pryor was offered a fight with Leonard, and Duran as well. He was the one who turned down the offer, unhappy with the offer of half a million, which while relatively low, was 10 times his previous career high.

Aaron Pryor was using the succesful business model followed and perfected by Winky Wright:rofl:

Thread Stealer
03-06-2010, 10:45 AM
Good point, but Hagler did call out: Hearns, Duran, Leonard and Benitez

I don't really think Hagler necessarily had an obligation to fight them either. As a champion, your obligation is to fight the best guys in your division. Outside of it is a bonus.

But obviously he wanted to fight those guys. Big events, exposure, and payday.

It's good that Benitez never fought Hagler. Benitez was pretty faded at that point, smaller also, and would've been beaten pretty badly.

crold1
03-06-2010, 02:14 PM
jack dempsey - anybody black.
jacj johnson - anybody black after winning title. namely langford.

Almost true.

Dempsey did fight black fighters early on; just no one particularly significant. The who is more important than the race, and there were some good who's to consider like Norfolk, a still game Langford etc. Louis didn't fight a lot of black fighters either, but his wasn't the strongest era in those regards.

Johnson didn't fight much at all after winning the title, but he did participate in the first all-black title fight with Jim Johnson. Jeanette matched him almost head up barely turned pro and was a much bigger miss than Langford for the title.

crold1
03-06-2010, 02:15 PM
No, Lewis didn't.

Off the top of my Head: Bernard Hopkins

It was WIDELY reported at the time that Lewis was asking for 10 Million which was an absurd ask in 93 dollars for a fighter in his position fighting for the Undisputed crown.

Would he have come down if Newman was serious about making a Lewis fight? Probably. I think the duck has become overblown because the conditions never materialized for that fight to come about after it didn't in early 93. Logically, it makes sense to have tried to make the highest risk fight worth the most reward. Bowe just wasn't pro enough to keep his ass out of Burger King or wherever long enough for that to happen.

B.U.R.N.E.R
03-06-2010, 02:17 PM
Duran ducking Cervantes.

Levcon8686
03-06-2010, 02:29 PM
Oscar offered Winky the fight and Wright turned it down. He said the money wasnt good enough, he was offered 8m by Oscar

To be fair to De La Hoya, there are sources verifying this. Someone found a quote from Winky on the subject from years ago. Not word for word but something like ~ ''He offered us 8 million but we turned it down. I mean c'mon, he gives everyone else he fights 15!''

Winky may have been correct in that assessment but it would have been his biggest payday yet, so Oscar gets cut some slack imo.

Ziggy Stardust
03-06-2010, 04:18 PM
Duran ducking Cervantes.

Cervantes had already lost to Benitez by the time Duran moved up from Lightweight.

Poet

Thread Stealer
03-06-2010, 07:31 PM
Cervantes had already lost to Benitez by the time Duran moved up from Lightweight.

Poet

The fight was discussed when Duran was champ at 135 and Cervantes at 140.

No duck, simply Duran's management (Carlos Eleta) turning down the fight.

Toney616
03-07-2010, 09:08 AM
It was WIDELY reported at the time that Lewis was asking for 10 Million which was an absurd ask in 93 dollars for a fighter in his position fighting for the Undisputed crown.

Would he have come down if Newman was serious about making a Lewis fight? Probably. I think the duck has become overblown because the conditions never materialized for that fight to come about after it didn't in early 93. Logically, it makes sense to have tried to make the highest risk fight worth the most reward. Bowe just wasn't pro enough to keep his ass out of Burger King or wherever long enough for that to happen.

I remember following the day to day on goings of that fight and I never heard of that.

Also what people here dont realise is that Bowe was never Hiolyfields mandatory so Holyfield was under no obligation to fight him or even offer him a fair split. Razor Ruddock at the time was Holyfileds wbc mandatory and him and Lewis would fight to decide who would be the mandatory for the winner of Holyfield-Bowe.

Bowe won then offered Lewis who he was obliged to fight a measly 25/75 split with a clause that he would get a percentage of Lewis future purses if Lewis won. A ridicoulous clause which Lewis rightly turned down.

AKATheMack
03-07-2010, 12:43 PM
To be fair to De La Hoya, there are sources verifying this. Someone found a quote from Winky on the subject from years ago. Not word for word but something like ~ ''He offered us 8 million but we turned it down. I mean c'mon, he gives everyone else he fights 15!''

Winky may have been correct in that assessment but it would have been his biggest payday yet, so Oscar gets cut some slack imo.

People forget that in boxing there are times when avoiding a high risk/low reward fighter is acceptable. Its not okay if you feel EVERY fight needs to be in your favor, but avoiding a dangerous fighter who brings little money to the table isnt a horrible thing if you're willing to fight another dangerous fighter for more money. DLHs track record speaks for itself and its impossible to feel the man is a "ducker", and not wanting to fight an awkward southpaw, with a great defense, who has a naturally spoiling style and bring little money to the table is understandable. It doesn't change the fact that I feel DLH wanted nothing to do with Winky though.

CarlosG815
03-07-2010, 01:17 PM
I always resented Riddick Bowe ducking Lewis because I've always felt he was massively overated.

I remember Bowe calling out Lewis many times. I think he actually got physical after a fight while lewis was commentating.