Hmmmm....so why the **** does the TUF show exist anyway? Isn't that the whole point of the show, to weed out the competitors and give contracts to only two guys? It's not like Leben went out and just beat BJ Penn. He beats Strangebrew, and all of a sudden he's in the UFC? Doesn't that cheapen what Griffin accomplished?

What the ****?

LEben is Couture's boy. Period.

It's bull**** is what it is. It completely takes the drama out of TUF. It's no longer a game of high stakes.

It's bull**** is what it is. It completely takes the drama out of TUF. It's no longer a game of high stakes.
not nessassarily. i bet Leben's gettin a weak ass paycheck like the rest of the newcommers, i'd say around $3-5,000 split. the tuf final winners get a 6 figure contract which gives them more fights and more money with the ufc, where Leben could fight once, being guarenteed nothing, and getting paid less. in the end, Leben was one of the most colorful people on tuf and his only 2 losses come from that show... Leben is a badass.

I do understand your point though, but in reality, I would'nt mind seeing Leben on PPV, hes all action, you can't deny that.

not nessassarily. i bet Leben's gettin a weak ass paycheck like the rest of the newcommers, i'd say around $3-5,000 split. the tuf final winners get a 6 figure contract which gives them more fights and more money with the ufc, where Leben could fight once, being guarenteed nothing, and getting paid less. in the end, Leben was one of the most colorful people on tuf and his only 2 losses come from that show... Leben is a badass.

I do understand your point though, but in reality, I would'nt mind seeing Leben on PPV, hes all action, you can't deny that.
This man just beat the **** out of the correct.

not really. Leben lost to Doerkson prior to the show. so 2 of his 3 losses were form the show.

Some good points, I agree more with mmafanman, it defeats the purpose of the show. I don't know what all of this hype is about Leben anyway. I've only seen one of his fights against Koscheck and I wasn't impressed at all, he was chicken **** of the ground and afraid to throw anything. Maybe it was a bad performance I don't know.

I still remain my opinion that everyone disagreed with before, These fighters are not top level competition, they are up and comers and I question if they should even be in the octagon with the exception of Griffin. They will know doubt fail, or be matched up with low level competition and we will see this in the next UFC.


This really isn't a surprise to me. Any fighter with any sort of popularity in the U.S has been taken care of, Tank abbott(they should have never brought himk back), Ken shamrock, a few others and now Leben. It's typical.

Some good points, I agree more with mmafanman, it defeats the purpose of the show. I don't know what all of this hype is about Leben anyway. I've only seen one of his fights against Koscheck and I wasn't impressed at all, he was chicken **** of the ground and afraid to throw anything. Maybe it was a bad performance I don't know.

I still remain my opinion that everyone disagreed with before, These fighters are not top level competition, they are up and comers and I question if they should even be in the octagon with the exception of Griffin. They will know doubt fail, or be matched up with low level competition and we will see this in the next UFC.


This really isn't a surprise to me. Any fighter with any sort of popularity in the U.S has been taken care of, Tank abbott(they should have never brought himk back), Ken shamrock, a few others and now Leben. It's typical.

So in the UFC, it really doesnt matter how good you are but rather if you are more marketable to make more profit?

So in the UFC, it really doesnt matter how good you are but rather if you are more marketable to make more profit?
Correct. See Baroni, Lawler, Tito and Sherk, Horn, Radach for examples of keeping average fighters with mouths over good fighters with skills.

how could you mention horn in the same sentence with lawler and baroni

how could you mention horn in the same sentence with lawler and baroni
Because Baroni and Lawler were guys they kept for long periods of time and Horn they let go despite being much more talented.

Because Baroni and Lawler were guys they kept for long periods of time and Horn they let go despite being much more talented.

I agree those are perfect examples. Both Lawler and Baroni. I really have no interest in Hron but it's a discrace that he never got a contract.

Because Baroni and Lawler were guys they kept for long periods of time and Horn they let go despite being much more talented.

cool for a second i thought you meant he was a hack

Horn is MMA's Winky Wright.

Think about it UFC is a business and Leben is an entertaining
fighter = more pay per view buys

Think about it UFC is a business and Leben is an entertaining
fighter = more pay per view buys

Maybe for some of the newbies, having Leben on a card certainly won't encourage me to buy a PPV.

Thats a lie. You will want to see him get knocked out and you know it.

BTW, it still makes me laugh that people seem to think Horn is the second coming of Jesus. He is a good fighter, yes, but he isn't gonna win the 205 or 185 or any title in the UFC. He loses when he fights the very elite of the divison.

Would I like to see Horn fight in the UFC? Sure, why not? Would I lose sleep over it if he never does again? No.

I also find it interesting that no one ever points out that PRIDE doesn't offer him many fights. His last two fights in PRIDE were decisons over people he should of beaten rather easily. Maybe thats why no big show wants him to fight there. He fights not to lose.

Thats a lie. You will want to see him get knocked out and you know it.

I guess that's true.


BTW, it still makes me laugh that people seem to think Horn is the second coming of Jesus. He is a good fighter, yes, but he isn't gonna win the 205 or 185 or any title in the UFC. He loses when he fights the very elite of the divison.


I certainly don't think he's the second coming however, there is know doubt that he should have a contract with the UFC. I say **** all the stupid americans who don't like the ground.



I also find it interesting that no one ever points out that PRIDE doesn't offer him many fights. His last two fights in PRIDE were decisons over people he should of beaten rather easily. Maybe thats why no big show wants him to fight there. He fights not to lose.

He fight's to get the submission, he's no magician though. In his fight with Yvel it did seem as though he was the damper on the action, Yvel was trying to make it exciting, and Horn was preventing him from doing so.

not nessassarily. i bet Leben's gettin a weak ass paycheck like the rest of the newcommers, i'd say around $3-5,000 split. the tuf final winners get a 6 figure contract which gives them more fights and more money with the ufc, where Leben could fight once, being guarenteed nothing, and getting paid less. in the end, Leben was one of the most colorful people on tuf and his only 2 losses come from that show... Leben is a badass.

I do understand your point though, but in reality, I would'nt mind seeing Leben on PPV, hes all action, you can't deny that.
The way i feel is that if chris can get beat by someone like kostchek, or really anyone on the show. (let us not forget that this show highlighted fighters that were good but were nowhere near the creme of the crop.)How are you going to beat people who do this for a living, to feed their family, not just as sidejob.

Hmmmm....so why the **** does the TUF show exist anyway? Isn't that the whole point of the show, to weed out the competitors and give contracts to only two guys? It's not like Leben went out and just beat BJ Penn. He beats Strangebrew, and all of a sudden he's in the UFC? Doesn't that cheapen what Griffin accomplished?

What the ****?

And not to mention that he cries everytime he loses. Well actually crying would be an understatement. He actually throws a temper tantrum.

Like a goddamn baby.

I dont disagree with giving him a contract as long as its A LOT lower paying and as a preformance contract meaning how he does determines his future. Also any .5 shows stuff like that sure have Leben fight or even as a prelim but definatly not on the main card until he proves himself for a while.

That way it wont take away from Griffin and Bonnar

I question if they should even be in the octagon with the exception of Griffin.


and Bonnar of course

I agree those are perfect examples. Both Lawler and Baroni. I really have no interest in Hron but it's a discrace that he never got a contract.


and thats why I hope he beats Liddell, lol that would be a good way to get Dana back. And also I also hope he wins becasue I like Horn