View Full Version : Joe Frazier Or Michael Spinks?


cotto16
03-01-2010, 07:56 PM
was just thinking, and out of these two who do you think will be remembered as the greater fighter?

i find them hard to split.

gimmeyapudpud
03-01-2010, 08:00 PM
Michael Spinks without question.I really don't see it as much of a debate either.Michael Spinks ducked absolutely not fighter his entire career.It didn't matter if a fighter could punch,Spinks was brave and aspired to be great.



Frazier's entire legacy is tainted while Michael Spinks would probably beat any light heavyweight in the history of the sport.

JAB5239
03-01-2010, 08:42 PM
was just thinking, and out of these two who do you think will be remembered as the greater fighter?

i find them hard to split.

I'll go with Spinks. He was king of arguably the strongest light heavyweight era while Frazier played second fiddle in arguably the strongest heavyweight era. Top that off with Spinks wins over Holmes and I think he would be the better choice here.

mhager91490
03-01-2010, 08:47 PM
The fighter who is probably going to be remembered as a better fighter is Frazier whether it be neccesarily true or not. Someone who has ony learned of boxing history through ESPN Classic or some such shallow resource would probably only know him from the Tyson fight.

sonnyboyx2
03-02-2010, 03:18 AM
Joe Frazier... he and Ali are the `pyramids`of the sport, so he will be remembered as the greater fighter, yet Michael Spinks was a `class-act`who should be remembered for his achievements of twice beating a good Larry Holmes and being the first light-heavyweight to move up and become champion.

ManniePhresh
03-02-2010, 03:26 AM
in my opinion and this isnt cut dry even in my mind, i think frazier takes only by grit and determination and a fierce left hook...:boxing:

frankenfrank
03-02-2010, 04:20 AM
frazier as he was the 3rd best heavyweight in a strong hw era (but not the strongest) , while p4p being the best of his time really.
spinks was KO'd in one round by tyson , quicker than what an older holmes was destroyed by tyson later. spinks skipped the cw division , which is a brave but stupid thing to do. i think he would have lost to holyfield too , but not easily.
both p4p and h2h , frazier is the better fighter of the two. frazier destroyed some stiff opposition , and foughta h2h better opposition than spinks did.
he may have just beaten holmes too , had holmes fought him.

frankenfrank
03-02-2010, 04:23 AM
Michael Spinks without question.I really don't see it as much of a debate either.Michael Spinks ducked absolutely not fighter his entire career.It didn't matter if a fighter could punch,Spinks was brave and aspired to be great.



Frazier's entire legacy is tainted while Michael Spinks would probably beat any light heavyweight in the history of the sport.

who did frazier ever duck ? he fought ali 3 times , decisioning him once , foreman twice , stopped chuvalo , convincingly avenged his amateur loss to buster mathis , stopped many more .

and spinks did duck tony tucker didn't he ?

gimmeyapudpud
03-02-2010, 04:39 AM
who did frazier ever duck ? he fought ali 3 times , decisioning him once , foreman twice , stopped chuvalo , convincingly avenged his amateur loss to buster mathis , stopped many more .




Virtually every ranked puncher of his era.frazier's entire career was carefully guided and his managment avoided any fighter that offered more than just a minor threat that wasn't named Ali.


.

and spinks did duck tony tucker didn't he ?




Spinks dropped his worthless alphabet title to fight for $4 million against Gerry Cooney

Thread Stealer
03-02-2010, 04:52 AM
Spinks. Fought in one of the best LHW eras ever, came out on top, showing his effectiveness in different styles and then moved up and became the HW champ of the world.

bojangles1987
03-02-2010, 07:16 AM
Unfortunately so many only know Michael Spinks from Tyson destroying him. And Frazier had such a short career, despite what he did within that short time.

wmute
03-02-2010, 07:21 AM
Spinks no doubt.

frankenfrank
03-02-2010, 08:54 AM
Virtually every ranked puncher of his era.frazier's entire career was carefully guided and his managment avoided any fighter that offered more than just a minor threat that wasn't named Ali.

and wasn't named Foreman , or Chuvalo .
Frazier fought every dangerous contender of his time.
he fought foreman 2 times. foreman was not named Ali , so he wasn't dangerous according to you.
Chuvalo was stopped only by foreman and frazier , never been down.
almost a McCall. frazier stopped the much bigger Buster Mathis , whom beat him in the ams. i guess he too , wasn't dangerous.
i guess you are true about spinks not ducking Tucker , but very much wrong here.

boxingbuff
03-02-2010, 03:07 PM
I'll go with Spinks. He was king of arguably the strongest light heavyweight era while Frazier played second fiddle in arguably the strongest heavyweight era. Top that off with Spinks wins over Holmes and I think he would be the better choice here.

Holmes was way past his prime when he fought Spinks.

Prime Frazier would chew up and spit out Spinks.

boxingbuff
03-02-2010, 03:15 PM
and wasn't named Foreman , or Chuvalo .
Frazier fought every dangerous contender of his time.
he fought foreman 2 times. foreman was not named Ali , so he wasn't dangerous according to you.
Chuvalo was stopped only by foreman and frazier , never been down.
almost a McCall. frazier stopped the much bigger Buster Mathis , whom beat him in the ams. i guess he too , wasn't dangerous.
i guess you are true about spinks not ducking Tucker , but very much wrong here.

Frazier also fought and beat some really good fighters early in his carreer.He beat Oscar Bonevena with only 11 pro fights.He beat Eddie Machen early in his carreer.He destroyed Jimmy Elliss in 4 rounds to win the title.

Just adding on a couple fighters to your list.

JAB5239
03-02-2010, 07:08 PM
Holmes was way past his prime when he fought Spinks.

Prime Frazier would chew up and spit out Spinks.

Doesn't change the fact that Spinks was a better light heavy than Frazier was a heavyweight. Can't blame Micheal for not fighting Holmes sooner, he was cleaning out arguably the best era of lightheavyweights.

gimmeyapudpud
03-02-2010, 10:48 PM
and wasn't named Foreman , or Chuvalo .
Frazier fought every dangerous contender of his time.
he fought foreman 2 times. foreman was not named Ali , so he wasn't dangerous according to you.
Chuvalo was stopped only by foreman and frazier , never been down.
almost a McCall. frazier stopped the much bigger Buster Mathis , whom beat him in the ams. i guess he too , wasn't dangerous.
i guess you are true about spinks not ducking Tucker , but very much wrong here.



Um,no he didn't.Foreman was lightly regarded the first time Frazier fought him and Frazier fought him in the rematch because he knew he was irrelevant and was just looking for one last payday.


He didn't fight dangerous punchers such as Mac Foster,Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers.So to claim he fought every dangerous contender of his era is stupid and wrong.





Frazier also fought and beat some really good fighters early in his carreer.He beat Oscar Bonevena with only 11 pro fights.He beat Eddie Machen early in his carreer.He destroyed Jimmy Elliss in 4 rounds to win the title.

Just adding on a couple fighters to your list.



Eddie Machen was well past it,no longer ranked in the top ten.Frazier received a gift decision against Bonavena and he stalled a title unification fight with Jimmy Ellis



Holmes was way past his prime when he fought Spinks.


So was Ali when Frazier beat him.Larry Holmes had atleast been an active fighter at that point.

Michael Spinks entire life isn't based around his two victories over Larry Holmes either.

Spinks has a legacy outside of just one man.

JAB5239
03-02-2010, 10:55 PM
Um,no he didn't.Foreman was lightly regarded the first time Frazier fought him and Frazier fought him in the rematch because he knew he was irrelevant and was just looking for one last payday.


He didn't fight dangerous punchers such as Mac Foster,Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers.So to claim he fought every dangerous contender of his era is stupid and wrong.

We've already been over this and you have been shown why those fights weren't made. You making claims that have no weight. You're making a judgment about Frazier, yet you don't talk about any other fighters (unless you dislike them) who missed out on fighting some of the other contenders from their era's. Why is that?

frankenfrank
03-03-2010, 12:14 PM
Um,no he didn't.Foreman was lightly regarded the first time Frazier fought him

the big and undefeated 1968 heavyweight gold medalist whom also stopped Chuvalo by that time was very lightly regarded. really a nobody.


and Frazier fought him in the rematch because he knew he was irrelevant and was just looking for one last payday.


frazier looked for further paydays his entire career.


He didn't fight dangerous punchers such as Mac Foster,Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers.So to claim he fought every dangerous contender of his era is stupid and wrong.

that's becuase he was busy fighting better opposition . i.e ali (3 times) ,
foreman (twice) , chuvalo , avenging his amateurs loss to mathis was also important , and mathis was 23-0-0 at the time , and Bonavena (twice) , and some less important but still important others like Bugner , Stander , and some others whom were mentioned by other poster here.


Spinks has a legacy outside of just one man.

true , but frazier's legacy was much greater , and never doubt the fact that frazier would have destroyed spinks inside 12 , much quicker than 12 , i believe.

boxingbuff
03-03-2010, 05:33 PM
Frazier only lost to 2 fighters in his entire career.Ali and Foreman.

Both top 5 Heavyweights in boxing history.

gimmeyapudpud
03-03-2010, 06:08 PM
the big and undefeated 1968 heavyweight gold medalist whom also stopped Chuvalo by that time was very lightly regarded. really a nobody.




foreman was regarded as a joke because ever since he had turned professional his entire resume consisted of cream puffs save a win over who many regarded as a fighter who had seen better days in George Chuvalo


frazier looked for further paydays his entire career.



He was done and needed one last payday.


that's becuase he was busy fighting better opposition . i.e ali (3 times) ,
foreman (twice) , chuvalo , avenging his amateurs loss to mathis was also important , and mathis was 23-0-0 at the time , and Bonavena (twice) , and some less important but still important others like Bugner , Stander , and some others whom were mentioned by other poster here.



frazier wasn't busy doing anything.Ali was busy cosistently fighting world class opposition as was Jerry Quarry who was knocking off the fighters that frazier was ducking.


frazier was busy leeching off of greater fighters legacies and taking easier fights rather taking great risks.


true , but frazier's legacy was much greater , and never doubt the fact that frazier would have destroyed spinks inside 12 , much quicker than 12 , i believe.



frazier's resume doesn't even compare to that of Michael Spinks.Michael Spinks legacy lies as one of the greatest lightheavyweights of all time,in a division that has seen many.


Michael Spinks doesn't need the wins over Larry Holmes to be recognised as a true great.

His wins over Larry Holmes were simply a bonus and a great bonus at that considering Larry Holmes placing in heavyweight history.

.Paulie.
03-03-2010, 06:28 PM
foreman was regarded as a joke because ever since he had turned professional his entire resume consisted of cream puffs save a win over who many regarded as a fighter who had seen better days in George Chuvalo






He was done and needed one last payday.






frazier wasn't busy doing anything.Ali was busy cosistently fighting world class opposition as was Jerry Quarry who was knocking off the fighters that frazier was ducking.


frazier was busy leeching off of greater fighters legacies and taking easier fights rather taking great risks.






frazier's resume doesn't even compare to that of Michael Spinks.Michael Spinks legacy lies as one of the greatest lightheavyweights of all time,in a division that has seen many.


Michael Spinks doesn't need the wins over Larry Holmes to be recognised as a true great.

His wins over Larry Holmes were simply a bonus and a great bonus at that considering Larry Holmes placing in heavyweight history.

You say Frazier avoided Lyle, Shavers, Mac Foster. Jerry Quarry stopped all 3 of those men. Frazier stopped Quarry twice.

So Frazier beat the man, who stopped all 3 of the men you claim Frazier avoided.

That just dosen add up or make sense..........Why would Frazier avoid Lyle, Shavers, and Foster, yet face a man who had stopped all 3 of them?

boxingbuff
03-03-2010, 06:31 PM
Prime Holmes shuts out Spinks....Or stops him in the later rounds while way ahead.

mrboxer
03-03-2010, 06:35 PM
in my mind michael spinks was a better fighter,if the two would of fought spinks would of beat frazier by 15 round unanimous decision,look at their records and the quality of opponent they had and clearly spinks resume is much greater:boxing:

gimmeyapudpud
03-03-2010, 09:42 PM
That just dosen add up or make sense..........Why would Frazier avoid Lyle, Shavers, and Foster, yet face a man who had stopped all 3 of them?



Because they were big punchers and Frazier spent his entire career ducking them.



Great fighters fighter fight the best of their generation and duck no one.Frazier avoided many of his generation to leech off of another man's legacy.

Ziggy Stardust
03-03-2010, 11:06 PM
Because they were big punchers and Frazier spent his entire career ducking them.

Great fighters fighter fight the best of their generation and duck no one.Frazier avoided many of his generation to leech off of another man's legacy.

Oh ffs just go get your tweezer assisted pud-pull and go to bed already: You've stolen enough oxygen around here for one night :wank:

Poet

JAB5239
03-04-2010, 02:58 AM
You say Frazier avoided Lyle, Shavers, Mac Foster. Jerry Quarry stopped all 3 of those men. Frazier stopped Quarry twice.

So Frazier beat the man, who stopped all 3 of the men you claim Frazier avoided.

That just dosen add up or make sense..........Why would Frazier avoid Lyle, Shavers, and Foster, yet face a man who had stopped all 3 of them?

Its not that he doesn't understand Quarry took all these guys out of the Frazier sweepstakes, he just refuses to accept it. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Haters will be haters.

gimmeyapudpud
03-04-2010, 03:47 AM
Its not that he doesn't understand Quarry took all these guys out of the Frazier sweepstakes, he just refuses to accept it. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Haters will be haters.



And yet Ali would end up fighting all three men,two of them when he was the world champion.

Greats take risks to achieve greatness,gabby.They don't have it set up on a platter for them.

True champions don't sit around and defend their title every now and then against hand picked opponents,gabby.They clear their division and prove their greatness.


frazier wasn't a champion for the last three years of his career either.


If Mac foster,Earnie Shavers and Ron Lyle fought in Louis's era,do you think he would have fought them?

JAB5239
03-04-2010, 03:54 AM
And yet Ali would end up fighting all three men,two of them when he was the world champion.

He certainly didn't have to,just like he didn't have to go into Ken Norton's own backyard to fight an unknown but top ten ranked heavyweight when he had a title shot already in place.


Greats take risks to achieve greatness,gabby.They don't have it set up on a platter for them.

True champions don't sit around and defend their title every now and then against hand picked opponents,gabby.They clear their division and prove their greatness.


frazier wasn't a champion for the last three years of his career either.


If Mac foster,Earnie Shavers and Ron Lyle fought in Louis's era,do you think he would have fought them?

You simply can't understand that ducking a fight and not making a fight are two entirely different things. If these guys were in a mandatory position and Frazier said no, thats a duck. We all know this isn't the case though. They all got beat while jockeying for position, thats a fact. Frazier is one of the greatest heavyweights ever, you have to learn to live with that and let go of all the bitterness.

BritishBoxing92
03-04-2010, 03:55 AM
was just thinking, and out of these two who do you think will be remembered as the greater fighter?

i find them hard to split.

Joe Fraziiiiier is better!!.....atleast frazier had the heart to get back up a few times while getting knocked down...he gave us the fight of the century and the thrilla in manilla....where as michael spinks got KTFO by My #1 All Time Favouraite Boxer....Mike Tyson :D

gimmeyapudpud
03-04-2010, 04:11 AM
You simply can't understand that ducking a fight and not making a fight are two entirely different things. If these guys were in a mandatory position and Frazier said no, thats a duck. We all know this isn't the case though. They all got beat while jockeying for position, thats a fact. Frazier is one of the greatest heavyweights ever, you have to learn to live with that and let go of all the bitterness.




If you're going to completely ignore the vast majority of my post,then atleast answer the last part -

If Mac foster,Earnie Shavers and Ron Lyle fought in Louis's era,do you think he would have fought them?

JAB5239
03-04-2010, 04:19 AM
If you're going to completely ignore the vast majority of my post,then atleast answer the last part -

If Mac foster,Earnie Shavers and Ron Lyle fought in Louis's era,do you think he would have fought them?

Maybe. Louis was obviously a fighting champion given his 25 defenses. Then again, who's to say? If they were beaten by better contenders and Louis fought them instead, who could blame him?

frankenfrank
03-04-2010, 07:52 AM
Michael Spinks : Gerry Cooney , Mike Tyson , Larry Holmes (*2) , Muhammad Qawi , Eddie Mustaffa Muhammad

Joe Frazier : Muhammad Ali (*3) , George Foreman (*2) , Oscar Bonavena (*2) ,
George Chuvalo , Buster Mathis , Jimmy Ellis (*2) , Ron Stander , Jerry Quarry (*2) , Joe Bugner , Doug Jones , Eddie Machen , Bob Foster

who had more important / impressive wins ?
who had more important fights ?
who would have beaten whom in a h2h fight ?

i think the answer is very very clear here.

boxingbuff
03-04-2010, 05:27 PM
Michael Spinks : Gerry Cooney , Mike Tyson , Larry Holmes (*2) , Muhammad Qawi , Eddie Mustaffa Muhammad

Joe Frazier : Muhammad Ali (*3) , George Foreman (*2) , Oscar Bonavena (*2) ,
George Chuvalo , Buster Mathis , Jimmy Ellis (*2) , Ron Stander , Jerry Quarry (*2) , Joe Bugner , Doug Jones , Eddie Machen , Bob Foster

who had more important / impressive wins ?
who had more important fights ?
who would have beaten whom in a h2h fight ?

i think the answer is very very clear here.

I don't think people realize how good fighters like Eddie Machen was.I believe Machen would have beat Spinks.There are alot of other fighters you listed who would have beat Spinks as well.