What are your thoughts on Milk?

Lots of people debate whether it's good or bad.

Alot of people say it's no good for you and is has chemicals and steriods in it, and it isnt healthly to drink something from a cow. And it's a myth that it makes your bones stronger etc. And you shound't drink it. And shound't eat nothing that milk has been apart of.

But other people say you have to drink milk, it really helps your bones and growth and provides.

I don't know what to belive...........:burnup:

What are your thoughts on Milk?

Lots of people debate whether it's good or bad.

Alot of people say it's no good for you and is has chemicals and steriods in it, and it isnt healthly to drink something from a cow. And it's a myth that it makes your bones stronger etc. And you shound't drink it. And shound't eat nothing that milk has been apart of.

But other people say you have to drink milk, it really helps your bones and growth and provides.

I don't know what to belive...........:burnup:

Drink soy milk.

Issue solved.

Milk is an odd one. We are the only ones that drink another animals milk, which is weird when you look at it like that. I have heard it's actually been linked with brittle bones.

Milk is an odd one. We are the only ones that drink another animals milk, which is weird when you look at it like that. I have heard it's actually been linked with brittle bones.

thats puts me off it, back to chocolate milk :bottle:

milk is good

i like it for my after training

Reduced fat milk is great.

thats puts me off it, back to chocolate milk :bottle:

milk is good

i like it for my after training

i just took my level 1 coaching theory last weekend, and the instructor said the best possible thing to drink in between practices or after a workout is choc milk because it has the perfect mix of carbs, protein and fat to help muscles recover

You can get milk without growth hormones in lots of places, some are organic (costs more) others not. Regarding the fact that we're the only ones drinking another animals milk; that's true but there are lots of people (mostly coming from Central Asia) who have been drinking milk for close to 10,000 years. That's roughly 500 generations. If you're lactose intollerant (as lots of people are -- don't drink it). But there are millions of healthy people who eat milk everyday and live long, healthy lives: (cheese, yogurt, kefir, buttermilk) in thousands of varieties.

F**K protein shakes. Get some kefir (you can get it fruit flavored if you want) and drink some before and after you work out. It's like a slightly sour liquidy yogurt drink. But it all boils down to what works well for you.

For the most part milk is no good. I used to think it was, just like they tell you in grade school "drink milk for your bones and teeth". It was bull ****. Turns out the grade school "Milk is healthy" campaigns have been funded by a multi million dollar dairy lobby. Last I saw some 160 million dollars was given to schools from dairy lobby groups to promote this message.

Turns out milk actually causes osteoporosis. The protiens found in milk are very acidic. When they enter the blood stream the body breaks down calcium from the bones and pumps it in the blood to even out the PH. So if your mom has osteoporosis, tell her to ignore the dairy lobby educated doctor and stop with the milk.

Cancer rates are also much higher in countries who consume a lot of dairy products.

For the most part milk is no good. I used to think it was, just like they tell you in grade school "drink milk for your bones and teeth". It was bull ****. Turns out the grade school "Milk is healthy" campaigns have been funded by a multi million dollar dairy lobby. Last I saw some 160 million dollars was given to schools from dairy lobby groups to promote this message.

Turns out milk actually causes osteoporosis. The protiens found in milk are very acidic. When they enter the blood stream the body breaks down calcium from the bones and pumps it in the blood to even out the PH. So if your mom has osteoporosis, tell her to ignore the dairy lobby educated doctor and stop with the milk.

Cancer rates are also much higher in countries who consume a lot of dairy products.

Dairy products come in a lot of varieties. Cheeseburgers, buns and milk shakes is not a good diet. Feta cheese, pita, olive oil is a good source of dairy products. Scarfing down a pint of hagen-daz ice cream after a dinner of cheez whiz and cheetos isn't the best source of dairy. Having an eggplant parmesian (mozzerella) for dinner, good bread, olive oil, slices of parmesian cheese, salad and wine; that's a good source of dairy.

Lots of things are bad - or not as good taken in isolation - but much better in combination. We see that in exercise. Isolating muscle groups is excellent for a body builder, not as good for a boxer.

Drink soy milk.

Issue solved.

Have fun with your elevated Estradiol levels.

You can find milk that is free of homrones. And as far as it being beneficial, I believe Rippetoe's 5x5 recommends a gallon of milk per day.

Turns out milk actually causes osteoporosis. The protiens found in milk are very acidic. When they enter the blood stream the body breaks down calcium from the bones and pumps it in the blood to even out the PH. So if your mom has osteoporosis, tell her to ignore the dairy lobby educated doctor and stop with the milk.

Cancer rates are also much higher in countries who consume a lot of dairy products.

Evidence?
I appreciate milk is different in America, In the UK AFAIK its illegal to use all those growth hormones.. but milk is great

Drink soy milk.

Issue solved.


Soy products basically enhance estrogen, I wouldnt recommend any soy product to anyone but a woman.

All dairy products also reduce the amount of oxygen stored in red blood cells and weakens blood flow, I try to stay away from them.

Soy products basically enhance estrogen, I wouldnt recommend any soy product to anyone but a woman.

All dairy products also reduce the amount of oxygen stored in red blood cells and weakens blood flow, I try to stay away from them.

from what i understand its protein that causes an iron deficiency. iron plays an important role in the creating of hemoglobin which carries oxygen. so dairy products and infact anything with protien can cause an iron deficiency.

so now we consider how men process iron and remove it from our bodies...we dont. you have to bleed out iron to remove it women can pull that off naturally but for the most part men dont need any extra iron. so then i went and researched why extra protien would cause men to lose iron and create an iron deficiency......it dosnt.

i was unable to find a single bit of evidence that explained or pointed twords why protien would cause an iron deficiency. so im pretty sure milk dosnt lower your capability to store oxygen in your blood and if for some reason it does just eat a rare steak.

All dairy products also reduce the amount of oxygen stored in red blood cells and weakens blood flow, I try to stay away from them.

All these people throwing around 'science' without evidence to back up their claims.. OP I wouldn't listen to any of this without evidence. Powerlifters drink a **** ton of milk and look how strong and fast they are, some of them put like 260kg (572lbs) above their head..

All these people throwing around 'science' without evidence to back up their claims.. OP I wouldn't listen to any of this without evidence. Powerlifters drink a **** ton of milk and look how strong and fast they are, some of them put like 260kg (572lbs) above their head..

Seriously though you see this one?

I have heard it's actually been linked with brittle bones.

i mean wtf.....

brittle bones are due to a lack of calcium and vitamin d

milk has lots of calcium and vitamin d......you'd think basic logic would keep people from making such statements.

God damn, so much **** is being posted in this thread.

Absolutely unbelievable how stupid some people are.

Evidence?
I appreciate milk is different in America, In the UK AFAIK its illegal to use all those growth hormones.. but milk is great

Evidence is REALLY easy to come by. I have read a number of books mentioning it and it is all over the net. Milk will provide you with some protein. That is all it is good for. It has horrible long term effects. Personally, half my allergies went away when I stopped dinking milk.

"Growing evidence is showing that calcium in milk does not protect against osteoporosis. For example in a 12-year Harvard study of 78,000 women, those who drank milk three times a day actually broke more bones than women who rarely drank milk. Similarly, a 1994 study in Sydney, Australia, showed that higher dairy product consumption was associated with increased fracture risk: those with the highest dairy consumption had double the risk of hip fracture compared to those with the lowest consumption."

‘There is a compelling argument that today’s pasteurized milk, in all its guises, has virtually no redeeming features at all, and serves only to cause disease and poor health. By simply switching from dairy to non-dairy milk we will make a dramatic and long-lasting improvement to our health.’ - Dr. Amy Lanou (Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, USA)

In Greece the average milk consumption doubled from 1961 to 1977 (21) (and was even higher in 1985), and during the period 1977 - 1985 the age adjusted osteoporosis incidence almost doubled too. (22)

In Hong Kong in 1989 twice as much dairy products were consumed as in 1966 (21) and osteoporosis incidence tripled in the same period. (23) Now their milk consumption level is almost “European”, and so is osteoporosis incidence. (24)



It is very simple: where the most milk is consumed, the osteoporosis incidence is highest. Compared to other countries, the most milk is consumed in Sweden, Finland, Switzerland and The Netherlands (300 to 400 kg / cap / year), and osteoporosis incidence in these countries has sky rocketed. (25)



Like Australians and New Zealanders, (26) Americans consume three fold more milk than the Japanese, and hip-fracture incidence in Americans is therefore 2½ fold higher. (27) Among those within America that consume less milk, such as the Mexican-Americans and Black Americans, osteoporosis incidence is two-fold lower than in white Americans, (28) which is not due to genetic differences. (29)



In Venezuela and Chile much less milk is consumed than in the US, Finland, Sweden and Switzerland, while the hip fracture incidence in Venezuela and Chile is over 3 fold lower. (61)



Chinese consume very little milk (8 kg / year), and hip-fracture incidence, therefore, is among the lowest in the world; hip-fracture incidence in Chinese women is 6 fold lower than in the US. (30) (The average American consumes 254 kg milk / year)



The less milk consumed, the lower is the osteoporosis rate. (31)

In other countries where very little milk is consumed, on the average, as in Congo (32), Guinea (33) and Togo (34) (6 kg / year) osteoporosis is extremely rare too.

In the Dem. Rep. Congo, Liberia, Ghana, Laos and Cambodia even less milk is consumed (average person: 1 to 3 kg a year !!), and they've never even heard of age-related hip fracture.

Sources
21) FAO database on the internet ;
www.fao.org/ Statistical Database / Food Balance Sheet Reports. Hong Kong has been removed from the database since the unification with China.

(22) Paspati, I. et al, Hip fracture epidemiology in Greece during 1977-1992. Calcif. Tissue Int. 1998 / 62 (6) / 542-547.

(23) Lau, E.M. & C. Cooper, Epidemiology and prevention of osteoporosis in urbanized Asian populations. Osteoporosis 1993 / 3 / suppl. 1 : 23-26.

(24) Ho SC, et al, The prevalence of osteoporosis in the Hong Kong Chinese female population. Maturitas 1999 Aug 16;32(3):171-8.

(25) Versluis, R.G. et al, Prevalence of osteoporosis in post-menopausal women in family practise (in Dutch). Ned. Tijdschr. Geneesk. 1999 / 143 (1) / 20-24. , Oden, A. et al, Lifetime risk of hip fractures is underestimated. Osteoporosis Int. 1998 / 8 (6) / 599-603. , Smeets-Goevaars, C.G. et al, The prevalence of low bone-meineral density in dutch perimenopausal women : the Eindhoven perimenopausal osteoporosis study. Osteoporosis Int. 1998 / 8 (5) / 404-409. , Lippuner, K.o et al, Incidence and direct medical costs of hospitilizations due to osteoporotic fractures in Switzerland. Osteoporosis Int. 1997 / 7 (5) / 414-425. , Lips, P. ,Epidemiology and predictors of fractures associated with osteoporosis. Am. J. Med. 1997 / 103 (2A) / 3S-8S / discussion 8S-11S. , Parkkari, J. et al, Secular trends in osteoporotic pelvic fractures in Finland : number and incidence of fractures in 1970-1991 and prediction for the future. Calcif. Tissue Int. 1996 / 59 (2) / 79-83. , Nydegger, V. et al, Epidemiology of fractures of the proximal femur in Geneva ; incidence, clinical and social aspects. Osteoporosis Int. 1991 / 2 (1) / 42-47. , Van Hemert, A.M. et al, Prediction of osteoporotic fractures in the general population by a fracture risk score. A 9-year follow up among middle aged women. Am.J.Epidemiol. 1990 / 132 (1) / 123-135.)

(26) Lau, E.M. et al, Admission rates for hip fracture in Australia in the last decade. The New South Wales scene in a world perspective. Med.J.Aust. 1993 / 158 (9) / 604-606.

(27) Fujita, T. and M. Fukase, Comparison of osteoporosis and calcium intake between Japan and the United States. Proc.Soc.Exp.Biol.Med. 1992 / 200 (2) / 149-152.

(28) Bauer RL, Ethnic differences in hip fracture: a reduced incidence in Mexican Americans. Am J Epidemiol 1988 Jan;127(1):145-9.

(29) Kessenich CR, Osteoporosis and african-american women. Womens Health Issues 2000 / 10 (6) / 300-304.

(30) Xu. L. et al, Very low rates of hip fracture in Beijing, People's Republic of China ; The Beijing Osteoprosis Project. Am.J.Epedemiol. 1996 / 144 (9) / 901-907.

(31) Schwartz, A.V. et al, International variation in the incidence of hip fractures : cross-national project on osteoporosis for the World Health Organization Program for Research on Ageing. Osteoporosis Int. 1999 / 9 (3) / 242-253.Rowe, S.M. et al, An epidemiological study of hip fracture in Honan, Korea. Int. Orthop. 1993 / 17 (3) / 139-143.

(32) Bwanahali, K. et al, Etiological aspects of low back pain in rheumatic patients in Kinshasa (Zaire). Apropos of 169 cases. (in French) Rev. Rhum. Mal. Osteoartic. 1992 / 59 (4) / 253-257.

(33) Barss, P., Fractured hips in rural Melanesians : a nonepidemic. Trop. Geogr. 1985 / 37 (2) / 156-159.

(34) Mijiyawa, M.A. et al, Rheumatic diseases in hospital outpatients in Lome. Rev. Rhum. Mal. Osteoartic. 1991 / 58 (5) / 349-354.

Seriously though you see this one?



i mean wtf.....

brittle bones are due to a lack of calcium and vitamin d

milk has lots of calcium and vitamin d......you'd think basic logic would keep people from making such statements.

This **** is amazing to me. This guy just assumes everyone on here is retarded for thinking that milk might be harmful to your bones just beacuse he saw a milk commercial or two saying how amazing their product is for your bones. "Milk, does a body good". This slogan is to sell a product. Dairy companies spend millions a year trying to make people believe this crap. Look at the science behind the issue and you will see straight through this corporate driven crap.

Evidence is REALLY easy to come by. I have read a number of books mentioning it and it is all over the net. Milk will provide you with some protein. That is all it is good for. It has horrible long term effects. Personally, half my allergies went away when I stopped dinking milk.

"Growing evidence is showing that calcium in milk does not protect against osteoporosis. For example in a 12-year Harvard study of 78,000 women, those who drank milk three times a day actually broke more bones than women who rarely drank milk. Similarly, a 1994 study in Sydney, Australia, showed that higher dairy product consumption was associated with increased fracture risk: those with the highest dairy consumption had double the risk of hip fracture compared to those with the lowest consumption."

‘There is a compelling argument that today’s pasteurized milk, in all its guises, has virtually no redeeming features at all, and serves only to cause disease and poor health. By simply switching from dairy to non-dairy milk we will make a dramatic and long-lasting improvement to our health.’ - Dr. Amy Lanou (Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, USA)

In Greece the average milk consumption doubled from 1961 to 1977 (21) (and was even higher in 1985), and during the period 1977 - 1985 the age adjusted osteoporosis incidence almost doubled too. (22)

In Hong Kong in 1989 twice as much dairy products were consumed as in 1966 (21) and osteoporosis incidence tripled in the same period. (23) Now their milk consumption level is almost “European”, and so is osteoporosis incidence. (24)



It is very simple: where the most milk is consumed, the osteoporosis incidence is highest. Compared to other countries, the most milk is consumed in Sweden, Finland, Switzerland and The Netherlands (300 to 400 kg / cap / year), and osteoporosis incidence in these countries has sky rocketed. (25)



Like Australians and New Zealanders, (26) Americans consume three fold more milk than the Japanese, and hip-fracture incidence in Americans is therefore 2½ fold higher. (27) Among those within America that consume less milk, such as the Mexican-Americans and Black Americans, osteoporosis incidence is two-fold lower than in white Americans, (28) which is not due to genetic differences. (29)



In Venezuela and Chile much less milk is consumed than in the US, Finland, Sweden and Switzerland, while the hip fracture incidence in Venezuela and Chile is over 3 fold lower. (61)



Chinese consume very little milk (8 kg / year), and hip-fracture incidence, therefore, is among the lowest in the world; hip-fracture incidence in Chinese women is 6 fold lower than in the US. (30) (The average American consumes 254 kg milk / year)



The less milk consumed, the lower is the osteoporosis rate. (31)

In other countries where very little milk is consumed, on the average, as in Congo (32), Guinea (33) and Togo (34) (6 kg / year) osteoporosis is extremely rare too.

In the Dem. Rep. Congo, Liberia, Ghana, Laos and Cambodia even less milk is consumed (average person: 1 to 3 kg a year !!), and they've never even heard of age-related hip fracture.

Sources
21) FAO database on the internet ;
www.fao.org/ Statistical Database / Food Balance Sheet Reports. Hong Kong has been removed from the database since the unification with China.

(22) Paspati, I. et al, Hip fracture epidemiology in Greece during 1977-1992. Calcif. Tissue Int. 1998 / 62 (6) / 542-547.

(23) Lau, E.M. & C. Cooper, Epidemiology and prevention of osteoporosis in urbanized Asian populations. Osteoporosis 1993 / 3 / suppl. 1 : 23-26.

(24) Ho SC, et al, The prevalence of osteoporosis in the Hong Kong Chinese female population. Maturitas 1999 Aug 16;32(3):171-8.

(25) Versluis, R.G. et al, Prevalence of osteoporosis in post-menopausal women in family practise (in Dutch). Ned. Tijdschr. Geneesk. 1999 / 143 (1) / 20-24. , Oden, A. et al, Lifetime risk of hip fractures is underestimated. Osteoporosis Int. 1998 / 8 (6) / 599-603. , Smeets-Goevaars, C.G. et al, The prevalence of low bone-meineral density in dutch perimenopausal women : the Eindhoven perimenopausal osteoporosis study. Osteoporosis Int. 1998 / 8 (5) / 404-409. , Lippuner, K.o et al, Incidence and direct medical costs of hospitilizations due to osteoporotic fractures in Switzerland. Osteoporosis Int. 1997 / 7 (5) / 414-425. , Lips, P. ,Epidemiology and predictors of fractures associated with osteoporosis. Am. J. Med. 1997 / 103 (2A) / 3S-8S / discussion 8S-11S. , Parkkari, J. et al, Secular trends in osteoporotic pelvic fractures in Finland : number and incidence of fractures in 1970-1991 and prediction for the future. Calcif. Tissue Int. 1996 / 59 (2) / 79-83. , Nydegger, V. et al, Epidemiology of fractures of the proximal femur in Geneva ; incidence, clinical and social aspects. Osteoporosis Int. 1991 / 2 (1) / 42-47. , Van Hemert, A.M. et al, Prediction of osteoporotic fractures in the general population by a fracture risk score. A 9-year follow up among middle aged women. Am.J.Epidemiol. 1990 / 132 (1) / 123-135.)

(26) Lau, E.M. et al, Admission rates for hip fracture in Australia in the last decade. The New South Wales scene in a world perspective. Med.J.Aust. 1993 / 158 (9) / 604-606.

(27) Fujita, T. and M. Fukase, Comparison of osteoporosis and calcium intake between Japan and the United States. Proc.Soc.Exp.Biol.Med. 1992 / 200 (2) / 149-152.

(28) Bauer RL, Ethnic differences in hip fracture: a reduced incidence in Mexican Americans. Am J Epidemiol 1988 Jan;127(1):145-9.

(29) Kessenich CR, Osteoporosis and african-american women. Womens Health Issues 2000 / 10 (6) / 300-304.

(30) Xu. L. et al, Very low rates of hip fracture in Beijing, People's Republic of China ; The Beijing Osteoprosis Project. Am.J.Epedemiol. 1996 / 144 (9) / 901-907.

(31) Schwartz, A.V. et al, International variation in the incidence of hip fractures : cross-national project on osteoporosis for the World Health Organization Program for Research on Ageing. Osteoporosis Int. 1999 / 9 (3) / 242-253.Rowe, S.M. et al, An epidemiological study of hip fracture in Honan, Korea. Int. Orthop. 1993 / 17 (3) / 139-143.

(32) Bwanahali, K. et al, Etiological aspects of low back pain in rheumatic patients in Kinshasa (Zaire). Apropos of 169 cases. (in French) Rev. Rhum. Mal. Osteoartic. 1992 / 59 (4) / 253-257.

(33) Barss, P., Fractured hips in rural Melanesians : a nonepidemic. Trop. Geogr. 1985 / 37 (2) / 156-159.

(34) Mijiyawa, M.A. et al, Rheumatic diseases in hospital outpatients in Lome. Rev. Rhum. Mal. Osteoartic. 1991 / 58 (5) / 349-354.

seems like a bunch of opinions and unscientific comparisons that are less like actually studies and more like hey doc would you say china a county composed of smaller people on average then the usa has less hip fractures then the usa?

they are doctors though but then again i can ask a priest if god exists but that dosnt mean hes right even though he knows everything possible about god.

seems like a bunch of opinions and unscientific comparisons that are less like actually studies and more like hey doc would you say china a county composed of smaller people on average then the usa has less hip fractures then the usa?

they are doctors though but then again i can ask a priest if god exists but that dosnt mean hes right even though he knows everything possible about god.

So your telling me that the scientists who compared milk drinking and non milk drinking people all over the world, were unscientific. Even if you discredit the china study, how about he harvard one about american populations? How about the one in australia that again looked at milk and non milk drinkers in their own population?

People like you argue just to argue. Looking at this evidence it would be fairly obvious to anyone. And this was by no means the only evidence. I could post all day on this stuff. All these population studies say the exact same thing. Among people who drink more milk, we find more osteoporosis. People who drink less milk, have less cases of osteoporosis. This is really straight forward stuff.

So your telling me that the scientists who compared milk drinking and non milk drinking people all over the world, were unscientific. Even if you discredit the china study, how about he harvard one about american populations? How about the one in australia that again looked at milk and non milk drinkers in their own population?

People like you argue just to argue. Looking at this evidence it would be fairly obvious to anyone. And this was by no means the only evidence. I could post all day on this stuff. All these population studies say the exact same thing. Among people who drink more milk, we find more osteoporosis. People who drink less milk, have less cases of osteoporosis. This is really straight forward stuff.

just as i can post actual evidence and not just opinions that state that a vitamin d or calcium deficiency can cause brittle bones and that milk contains vitamin d and calcium

perhaps too much might cause problems just as too much of anything can cause problems but there is nothing wrong with the amount of milk required to get your daily intake of calcium and vitamin d

Ok, I don't know what sort of crazy stuff you got in your milk but here in Sweden I've never heard of a normal consumption of milk being bad in any way. Regarding the "cancer rates are higher in countries consuming dairy products", I'm almost certain that has nothing to do with the milk and more to do with all the other unhealthy stuff being consumed in those countries, seeing as it's the rich countries who can afford the dairy products the most. Also, you should drink fat milk, as it hasn't been pasteurized as much. And why is pasteurization bad? Well, during the process of pasteurization, you destroy a lot of healthy stuff. I cba explaining it all, so just google pasteurization+vitamine loss and read for yourself.

Lastly, read what has been established about milk after practice:

Previous studies have examined the response of muscle protein to resistance exercise and nutrient ingestion. Net muscle protein synthesis results from the combination of resistance exercise and amino acid intake. No study has examined the response of muscle protein to ingestion of protein in the context of a food. This study was designed to determine the response of net muscle protein balance following resistance exercise to ingestion of nutrients as components of milk.

Three groups of volunteers ingested one of three milk drinks each: 237 g of fat-free milk (FM), 237 g of whole milk (WM), and 393 g of fat-free milk isocaloric with the WM (IM). Milk was ingested 1 h following a leg resistance exercise routine. Net muscle protein balance was determined by measuring amino acid balance across the leg.

Arterial concentrations of representative amino acids increased in response to milk ingestion. Threonine balance and phenylalanine balance were both > 0 following milk ingestion. Net amino acid uptake for threonine was 2.8-fold greater (P < 0.05) for WM than for FM. Mean uptake of phenylalanine was 80 and 85% greater for WM and IM, respectively, than for FM, but not statistically different. Threonine uptake relative to ingested was significantly (P < 0.05) higher for WM (21 +/- 6%) than FM (11 +/- 5%), but not IM (12 +/- 3%). Mean phenylalanine uptake/ingested also was greatest for WM, but not significantly.

Ingestion of milk following resistance exercise results in phenylalanine and threonine uptake, representative of net muscle protein synthesis. These results suggest that whole milk may have increased utilization of available amino acids for protein synthesis.

Kevin Tipton, Robert Wolfe; Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006 Apr;38(4):667-74. Milk Ingestion Stimulates Net Muscle Protein Synthesis following Resistance Exercise.

All right. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. The problem is not too much vitamin d or calcium or hormones (although they arn't good). It is the fact that there is not nearly enough vitamin d and calcium in milk to offset the acid protein it contains. You drink milk, the blood becomes acid and the body fights this by taking more calcium out of the bones to fix the PH levels in the blood.

Here are a few quotes and tid bits:

"The dairy folks, ever since the 1920s, have been enormously successful in cultivating an environment within virtually all segments of our society—from research and education to public relations and politics—to have us believing that cow's milk and its products are manna from heaven. ... Make no mistake about it; the dairy industry has been virtually in total control of any and all public health information that ever rises to the level of public scrutiny."
Dr. T. Colin Campbell

"Milk, it now seems clear, is not the solution to poor bone density. To the contrary, it's part of the problem."
Dr. Charles Attwood

"The association between the intake of animal protein and fracture rates appears to be as strong as the association between cigarette smoking and lung cancer."
Dr. T. Colin Campbell

In one study, funded by the National Dairy Council, a group of postmenopausal women were given three 8-ounce glasses of skim milk every day for two years, and their bones were compared to those of a control group of women not given the milk. The dairy group consumed 1,400 mg of calcium per day and lost bone at twice the rate of the control group. According to the researchers, "this may have been due to the average 30 percent increase in protein intake during milk supplementation. ... The adverse effect of increases in protein intake on calcium balance has been reported from several laboratories, including our own" (they then cite 10 other studies). Says McDougall, "Needless to say, this finding did not reach the six o'clock news." This is one study that the dairy industry won't be repeating any time soon.

After looking at 34 published studies in 16 countries, researchers at Yale University found that the countries with the highest rates of osteoporosis—including the United States, Sweden, and Finland—were those in which people consumed the most meat, milk, and other animal foods. This study also showed that African-Americans, who consume, on average, more than 1,000 mg of calcium per day, are nine times more likely to experience hip fractures than are South African blacks, whose daily calcium intake is only about 196 mg. Says McDougall, "On a nation-by-nation basis, people who consume the most calcium have the weakest bones and the highest rates of osteoporosis. ... Only in thoseplaces where calcium and protein are eaten in relatively high quantities does a deficiency of bone calcium exist, due to an excess of animal protein."

I can't make this any clearer. Just look up the science behind it.

All right. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. The problem is not too much vitamin d or calcium or hormones (although they arn't good). It is the fact that there is not nearly enough vitamin d and calcium in milk to offset the acid protein it contains. You drink milk, the blood becomes acid and the body fights this by taking more calcium out of the bones to fix the PH levels in the blood.


so an unbalanced diet (not milk) of acids and alkalines can cause the body to remove calcium from the bones to balance it out which causes brittle bones.

so acids, not just proteins, are the problem though i guess not much more of a problem then the alkalines could be if your diet was unbalanced in that way.

what foods are acids? just protein from milk? no, and heres a list of acidic foods that cause brittle bones just like milk.

ACIDIFYING VEGETABLES
Corn
Lentils
Olives
Winter Squash

ACIDIFYING FRUITS
Blueberries
Canned or Glazed Fruits
Cranberries
Currants
Plums**
Prunes**

ACIDIFYING GRAINS, GRAIN PRODUCTS
Amaranth
Barley
Bran, wheat
Bran, oat
Corn
Cornstarch
Hemp Seed Flour
Kamut
Oats (rolled)
Oatmeal
Quinoa
Rice (all)
Rice Cakes
Rye
Spelt
Wheat
Wheat Germ
Noodles
Macaroni
Spaghetti
Bread
Crackers, soda
Flour, white
Flour, wheat

ACIDIFYING BEANS & LEGUMES
Black Beans
Chick Peas
Green Peas
Kidney Beans
Lentils
Pinto Beans
Red Beans
Soy Beans
Soy Milk
White Beans
Rice Milk
Almond Milk

ACIDIFYING DAIRY
Butter
Cheese
Cheese, Processed
Ice Cream
Ice Milk

ACIDIFYING NUTS & BUTTERS
Cashews
Legumes
Peanuts
Peanut Butter
Pecans
Tahini
Walnuts

ACIDIFYING ANIMAL PROTEIN
Bacon
Beef
Carp
Clams
Cod
Corned Beef
Fish
Haddock
Lamb
Lobster
Mussels
Organ Meats
Oyster
Pike
Pork
Rabbit
Salmon
Sardines
Sausage
Scallops
Shrimp
Scallops
Shellfish
Tuna
Turkey
Veal
Venison

ACIDIFYING FATS & OILS
Avacado Oil
Butter
Canola Oil
Corn Oil
Hemp Seed Oil
Flax Oil
Lard
Olive Oil
Safflower Oil
Sesame Oil
Sunflower Oil

ACIDIFYING SWEETENERS
Carob
Sugar
Corn Syrup

ACIDIFYING ALCOHOL
Beer
Spirits
Hard Liquor
Wine

ACIDIFYING OTHER FOODS
Catsup
Cocoa
Coffee
Vinegar
Mustard
Pepper
Soft Drinks

ACIDIFYING DRUGS & CHEMICALS
Aspirin
Chemicals
Drugs, Medicinal
Drugs, Psychedelic
Pesticides
Herbicides
Tobacco

Now is calcium the only alkaline? is there no other way to counteract milk protein acid other then with calcium or bone calcium? No:

ALKALIZING VEGETABLES
Alfalfa
Barley Grass
Beets
Beet Greens
Broccoli
Cabbage
Carrot
Cauliflower
Celery
Chard Greens
Chlorella
Collard Greens
Cucumber
Dandelions
Dulce
Edible Flowers
Eggplant
Fermented Veggies
Garlic
Green Beans
Green Peas
Kale
Kohlrabi
Lettuce
Mushrooms
Mustard Greens
Nightshade Veggies
Onions
Parsnips (high glycemic)
Peas
Peppers
Pumpkin
Radishes
Rutabaga
Sea Veggies
Spinach, green
Spirulina
Sprouts
Sweet Potatoes
Tomatoes
Watercress
Wheat Grass
Wild Greens

ALKALIZING ORIENTAL VEGETABLES
Maitake
Daikon
Dandelion Root
****ake
Kombu
Reishi
Nori
Umeboshi
Wakame

ALKALIZING FRUITS
Apple
Apricot
Avocado
Banana (high glycemic)
Berries
Blackberries
Cantaloupe
Cherries, sour
Coconut, fresh
Currants
Dates, dried
Figs, dried
Grapes
Grapefruit*
Honeydew Melon
Lemon*
Lime*
Muskmelons
Nectarine*
Orange*
Peach
Pear
Pineapple
Raisins
Raspberries
Rhubarb
Strawberries
Tangerine*
Tomato
Tropical Fruits
Umeboshi Plums
Watermelon

*Although it might seem that citrus fruits would have an acidifying effect on the body, the citric acid they contain actually has an alkalinizing effect in the system.

ALKALIZING PROTEIN
Almonds
Chestnuts
Millet
Tempeh (fermented)
Tofu (fermented)
Whey Protein Powder

ALKALIZING SWEETENERS
Stevia

ALKALIZING SPICES & SEASONINGS
Cinnamon
Curry
Ginger
Mustard
Chili Pepper
Sea Salt
Miso
Tamari
All Herbs

ALKALIZING OTHER
Apple Cider Vinegar
Bee Pollen
Lecithin Granules
Molasses, blackstrap
Probiotic Cultures
Soured Dairy Products
Green Juices
Veggie Juices
Fresh Fruit Juice
Mineral Water
Alkaline Antioxidant Water

ALKALIZING MINERALS
Cesium: pH 14
Potassium: pH 14
Sodium: pH 14
Calcium: pH 12
Magnesium: pH 9

while you may have pointed out that an unbalanced ph can cause a calcium deficiency you did nothing to prove that milk is any worse for you then corn oil or peanuts. in fact with milks ph at 6.8 and peanuts at 6.28 peanuts are much more acidic.

What are your thoughts on Milk?

Lots of people debate whether it's good or bad.

Alot of people say it's no good for you and is has chemicals and steriods in it, and it isnt healthly to drink something from a cow. And it's a myth that it makes your bones stronger etc. And you shound't drink it. And shound't eat nothing that milk has been apart of.

But other people say you have to drink milk, it really helps your bones and growth and provides.

I don't know what to belive...........:burnup:

I drink milk made from oats not animals.

The Far East has the lowest level of milk consumption in the world AND the lowest levels of osteoporosis. Here is the West we have the highest levels of milk consumption an the highest levels of osteoporosis. So the argument about milk being good for your bones is a triumph of marketing over fact. Likewise it is virtually impossible for a human being to extract protein from dairy products as we lack the digestive enzyme (present in baby cows) which is able to split the caesium from the calcium. So don't bother eating cottage cheese to build muscle...

I drink milk made from oats not animals.

The Far East has the lowest level of milk consumption in the world AND the lowest levels of osteoporosis. Here is the West we have the highest levels of milk consumption an the highest levels of osteoporosis. So the argument about milk being good for your bones is a triumph of marketing over fact. Likewise it is virtually impossible for a human being to extract protein from dairy products as we lack the digestive enzyme (present in baby cows) which is able to split the caesium from the calcium. So don't bother eating cottage cheese to build muscle...

so the high intake of junk food sugars wheats eggs fast food and what not cant possible be the cause it has to be milk.

and casein protein is digestible it just takes longer then whey.

much like corn...it will be very difficult to determine what evidence (scientific or not) is real or just some lobby induced crap...at the end of the day...milk has both beneficial and negative components...but we as consumers are at the disadvantage due to us never actually knowing unless we conduct the research on our own with our bodies as the test subjects...

try a diet for 6 weeks with increased milk consumption...then try it wiothout it...i hope you have health insurance as well...:(

so an unbalanced diet (not milk) of acids and alkalines can cause the body to remove calcium from the bones to balance it out which causes brittle bones.

so acids, not just proteins, are the problem though i guess not much more of a problem then the alkalines could be if your diet was unbalanced in that way.

what foods are acids? just protein from milk? no, and heres a list of acidic foods that cause brittle bones just like milk.


Now is calcium the only alkaline? is there no other way to counteract milk protein acid other then with calcium or bone calcium? No:



while you may have pointed out that an unbalanced ph can cause a calcium deficiency you did nothing to prove that milk is any worse for you then corn oil or peanuts. in fact with milks ph at 6.8 and peanuts at 6.28 peanuts are much more acidic.

Oh man. I swear its like you pay no attention. You remind me of my brother. He will argue to the death just to argue.
Yes, other things can make your blood acidic and make your bones leach calcium. Table salt is another bad one. BUT, milk in particular seems to cause bone loss. Even more than these other foods. I posted a quote about a clinical study where two groups of women were followed over 2 years. One drank milk the other did not. At the end of the study the group that drank milk had twice the bone loss of the other. No other significant dietary differences were found.
So you can continue to waste your energy with your babbling. But this is not even an argument. These are the facts. It is really straight forward.

the fact america has more hip fractures than the japanese is more likely due to america generally being a less active and more overweigth people on the whole

..other than that there is no actual evidence that milk is harmful, only possibly coincidental links.

..as long as power lifters are drinking milk, some of which lift 260kg above their head, I'm gonna go ahead and keep drinking milk

the fact america has more hip fractures than the japanese is more likely due to america generally being a less active and more overweigth people on the whole

..other than that there is no actual evidence that milk is harmful, only possibly coincidental links.

..as long as power lifters are drinking milk, some of which lift 260kg above their head, I'm gonna go ahead and keep drinking milk

I'm not sure what you consider evidence becuase I was under the impression that thats what I was posting, over and over and over again. Lifting produces stronger bones, so power lifters have strong bones. Prob be even stronger without milk.

I'm not sure what you consider evidence becuase I was under the impression that thats what I was posting, over and over and over again. Lifting produces stronger bones, so power lifters have strong bones. Prob be even stronger without milk.

If you want to call it evidence then post the methodology and the theory not just the results. You can make a study that suits anything. If I had a bunch of people who wake up every morning at 8 and have a piss and another that wakes up at nine and doesn't, then I could theorize that waking up at 8 is more likely to make you want to piss than waking up at nine. The idea is ridiculous without sufficient theory to back it up.

Milk is good for you. Cow milk is actually the milk with the least amount of nutrition by far. If you find some goat milk it is real healthy but taste real nasty.

If you want to call it evidence then post the methodology and the theory not just the results. You can make a study that suits anything. If I had a bunch of people who wake up every morning at 8 and have a piss and another that wakes up at nine and doesn't, then I could theorize that waking up at 8 is more likely to make you want to piss than waking up at nine. The idea is ridiculous without sufficient theory to back it up.

You are being ridiculus. I gave all my sources and this is just a forum. If you want to know that badly how all the studies were done. Go check out the sources. Its why i put them up. I have studied nutrition for a long time and this is common sense once you understand the science behind it.

well then pray tell, if you understand the science so well how about you explain it to the rest of us.. Mr Interwebz sc13nce man

well then pray tell, if you understand the science so well how about you explain it to the rest of us.. Mr Interwebz sc13nce man

I have. For the love of god just look at my old posts in this thread. I have spent far to much time and energy on this thread already. Just look, its all there. Maybe 2 minutes of reading. Then you can check the sources for yourself and then you will be educated as opposed to just opinionated.

I have. For the love of god just look at my old posts in this thread. I have spent far to much time and energy on this thread already. Just look, its all there. Maybe 2 minutes of reading. Then you can check the sources for yourself and then you will be educated as opposed to just opinionated.

I assure you, I've read your posts. the majority of what you call 'evidence' is circumstantial at best and your theory of protein in milk causing osteoporosis doesn't account for non-milk drinking protein ingesters. according to the theory of amino acids surely anyone who ingests protein would also suffer from osteoporosis. would you tell us all to stop doing that?

This is for luv4boxing. I understand that your evidence is convincing, however they did not include other aspects of the diets of those that were tested, nor did they include family history and how inclined they already were to have weak bones. (i.e. prior broken bones and what have you)

Now your evidence is showing that there is a possible link with milk and weaker bones due to a ph balance issue. Now I want to see studies showing the ph balance of the blood of people that drink milk compared to those that never do, then compare that to a study of a balanced diet (PH wise), one with milk and one without.

Then I would start to be convinced it is more than too much milk in a bad diet. I do agree, however, that milk had been marketed so well that people believe that just drinking milk will make their bones strong.

Also, to reply to the powerlifter comments, powerlifters have a very strict and balanced diet.

Here was my thinking whenever I, well...thought about it.

Pros:

Tastes good, protein.

Cons:

Alot of people dont have the enzymes to break down the milk after a certain age (lactose intolerance.) It has chemicals and stuff from the pasturization and the cows. Also, this is just a random generalization, but most countrys that dont drink milk, have a tendancy to have a longer life expectancy.

Conclusion:

I honestly don't plan on breaking 60 in my life time if I do it right, and I love the taste of milk. So yeehaw, Im setting my lamborgeni on fire, with my cigar, bottle of whiskey, and my 2%, giving the middle finger as I go off a cliff at 58.

All right. I'm going to whip together a few more pieces of info to make this convincing enough for everyone. But I want everyone to realize that osteoporosis can't be tested over the course of a two week double blind study. It must be long term, so there will always be other variables but the number of studies showing a strong correlation between milk intake and bone loss is stagering.

In Pediatrics (2000), published by the American Academy of Pediatrics, Pennsylvania State University researchers showed that calcium intake, which ranged from 500 to 1,500 mg per day, had no lasting effect on the bone health of girls in their teens. "We (had) hypothesized that increased calcium intake would result in better adolescent bone gain. Needless to say, we were surprised to find our hypothesis refuted," one researcher explained.

After reviewing studies on the link between protein intake and urinary calcium loss, dairy industry researcher Dr. Robert P. Heaney found that as consumption of protein increases, so does the amount of calcium lost in the urine (Journal of the American Dietetic Association, 1993): "This effect has been documented in several different study designs for more than 70 years," he writes, adding, "The net effect is such that, if protein intake is doubled without changing intake of other nutrients, urinary calcium content increases by about 50 percent."

Japanese women who follow a more Western-style, meat- and dairy-based diet are eight times more likely to develop breast cancer than their counterparts who eat a plant-based diet not containing dairy products.

Another Italian study, published in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, reported that adult women who reduce their dietary intake of fat and animal protein substantially lower their risk of breast cancer.

Studies published in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association and the British Medical Journal found that consuming three additional servings of nonfat or 1 percent milk for 12 weeks was associated with a 10 percent increase in IGF-1 levels. The Food and Drug Administration reports that IGF-1 is not destroyed by pasteurization. In fact, pasteurization actually increases its concentration in rBGH milk.

According to a report published by the American Academy of Allergy and Immunology Committee on Adverse Reactions to Food (part of the National Institutes of Health), the allergies of up to one third of children tested cleared after milk was removed from their diet.

The mucus created by milk may cause other health problems, as well. Dr. William Ellis, who has studied the effects of dairy foods for more than four decades, says that milk is "simply no good for humans." Dr. Ellis believes that the excess mucus caused by milk can harden to form a coating on the inner wall of the intestines, hindering the absorption of nutrients and possibly leading to chronic fatigue.

A study of children in 40 countries found that the incidence of juvenile diabetes was directly related to diet: The higher the consumption of cow’s milk and other animal products, the greater the chance of developing diabetes. Conversely, children who consumed a largely vegetarian diet had a much lower incidence of diabetes.

In a study published in the International Journal of Cardiology, researchers studied seven countries with a high consumption of dairy products and found that heart disease mortality rose as milk supply rose

Researchers who studied dietary links to heart disease in 32 countries found that, of all dietary factors studied, milk carbohydrates played the biggest role in the development of heart disease in men over 35, and nonfat milk played the biggest role in the development of coronary heart disease in men over 45. (4)

Like I said. These studies are endless. Put it all together and only one thing seems clear. Dairy products are not good for people.

Like I said. These studies are endless. Put it all together and only one thing seems clear. Dairy products are not good for people.

an observation is not evidence. that it seems clear shows that it only seems that way given the data you have supplied.

where on earth and we must have gotten here so there seems to be some one who created us.

an apple falls to the ground so it seems like gravity is pulling the apple down.

tiny particles like pollen when suspened in water are moving very randomly when looked at through a microscope they almost seem to be alive so they must be.....unless you have an understanding of entrophy and what atoms are.

on top of that some of your evidence dosnt even have a connection to milk

In Pediatrics (2000), published by the American Academy of Pediatrics, Pennsylvania State University researchers showed that calcium intake, which ranged from 500 to 1,500 mg per day, had no lasting effect on the bone health of girls in their teens. "We (had) hypothesized that increased calcium intake would result in better adolescent bone gain. Needless to say, we were surprised to find our hypothesis refuted," one researcher explained.

too much calcium dosnt do anything. what does this have to do with milk?

After reviewing studies on the link between protein intake and urinary calcium loss, dairy industry researcher Dr. Robert P. Heaney found that as consumption of protein increases, so does the amount of calcium lost in the urine (Journal of the American Dietetic Association, 1993): "This effect has been documented in several different study designs for more than 70 years," he writes, adding, "The net effect is such that, if protein intake is doubled without changing intake of other nutrients, urinary calcium content increases by about 50 percent."

protien and calcium nothing to do directly with milk.

Another Italian study, published in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, reported that adult women who reduce their dietary intake of fat and animal protein substantially lower their risk of breast cancer.

nothing to do with calcium or even bones

Studies published in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association and the British Medical Journal found that consuming three additional servings of nonfat or 1 percent milk for 12 weeks was associated with a 10 percent increase in IGF-1 levels. The Food and Drug Administration reports that IGF-1 is not destroyed by pasteurization. In fact, pasteurization actually increases its concentration in rBGH milk.

IGF1 is actually a natural molecular structure similar to insulin. IGF-1 is the abbreviation for Insulin-Like Growth Factor 1.Know in scientific circles as a polypeptide protein hormone, IGF-1 or Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 plays a vital role in childhood growth and stimulates anabolic effects (muscle building) in adults.

whats your point? dosnt really seem like a bad thing, maybe in women.

According to a report published by the American Academy of Allergy and Immunology Committee on Adverse Reactions to Food (part of the National Institutes of Health), the allergies of up to one third of children tested cleared after milk was removed from their diet.

Yes people are allergic to things.


A study of children in 40 countries found that the incidence of juvenile diabetes was directly related to diet: The higher the consumption of cow’s milk and other animal products, the greater the chance of developing diabetes. Conversely, children who consumed a largely vegetarian diet had a much lower incidence of diabetes.

now where linking it to diabeties...what dosnt milk cause im beginning to think some where in your post your gonna try and link it to aids....and its not even milk we are comparing, its a high protien diet to a low protien diet.

All right. I'm going to whip together a few more pieces of info to make this convincing enough for everyone. But I want everyone to realize that osteoporosis can't be tested over the course of a two week double blind study. It must be long term, so there will always be other variables but the number of studies showing a strong correlation between milk intake and bone loss is stagering.

In Pediatrics (2000), published by the American Academy of Pediatrics, Pennsylvania State University researchers showed that calcium intake, which ranged from 500 to 1,500 mg per day, had no lasting effect on the bone health of girls in their teens. "We (had) hypothesized that increased calcium intake would result in better adolescent bone gain. Needless to say, we were surprised to find our hypothesis refuted," one researcher explained.

After reviewing studies on the link between protein intake and urinary calcium loss, dairy industry researcher Dr. Robert P. Heaney found that as consumption of protein increases, so does the amount of calcium lost in the urine (Journal of the American Dietetic Association, 1993): "This effect has been documented in several different study designs for more than 70 years," he writes, adding, "The net effect is such that, if protein intake is doubled without changing intake of other nutrients, urinary calcium content increases by about 50 percent."

Japanese women who follow a more Western-style, meat- and dairy-based diet are eight times more likely to develop breast cancer than their counterparts who eat a plant-based diet not containing dairy products.

Another Italian study, published in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, reported that adult women who reduce their dietary intake of fat and animal protein substantially lower their risk of breast cancer.

Studies published in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association and the British Medical Journal found that consuming three additional servings of nonfat or 1 percent milk for 12 weeks was associated with a 10 percent increase in IGF-1 levels. The Food and Drug Administration reports that IGF-1 is not destroyed by pasteurization. In fact, pasteurization actually increases its concentration in rBGH milk.

According to a report published by the American Academy of Allergy and Immunology Committee on Adverse Reactions to Food (part of the National Institutes of Health), the allergies of up to one third of children tested cleared after milk was removed from their diet.

The mucus created by milk may cause other health problems, as well. Dr. William Ellis, who has studied the effects of dairy foods for more than four decades, says that milk is "simply no good for humans." Dr. Ellis believes that the excess mucus caused by milk can harden to form a coating on the inner wall of the intestines, hindering the absorption of nutrients and possibly leading to chronic fatigue.

A study of children in 40 countries found that the incidence of juvenile diabetes was directly related to diet: The higher the consumption of cow’s milk and other animal products, the greater the chance of developing diabetes. Conversely, children who consumed a largely vegetarian diet had a much lower incidence of diabetes.

In a study published in the International Journal of Cardiology, researchers studied seven countries with a high consumption of dairy products and found that heart disease mortality rose as milk supply rose

Researchers who studied dietary links to heart disease in 32 countries found that, of all dietary factors studied, milk carbohydrates played the biggest role in the development of heart disease in men over 35, and nonfat milk played the biggest role in the development of coronary heart disease in men over 45. (4)

Like I said. These studies are endless. Put it all together and only one thing seems clear. Dairy products are not good for people.

I understand what you're saying but there is a major problem with comparing "Japanese" women who change their diet with a person with central asian ancestry (that's most white/european people and many south asian people). The Japanese never ate milk products. People with central Asian history have had milk products as a center of their diet for close to 10 millenia (4-500 generations).

Now, I must say I'm not talking about drinking milk but of consuming dairy products cheese (parmesian, feta, brie, aged goudas), yogurt types, kefir and the like. This is not cheez whiz, hagen-daz, cheez puffs, faux cheeses that are in most pizzas, etc...

Don't compare populations eating a healthy diet to ones eating primarily over-processed fast-foods.

As a nutritionist you know that many people say there are serious problems with tofu. And yet hundreds of millions of people have lived long-healthy lives with on a soy diet. The same is true with dairy products. Hundreds of millions of people have lived long-healty lives consuming dairy products. Among the questions needed to be asked are: do different people digest the food differently? are you comparing same products? Or to make a bad pun: are you comparing tofu to tofu or dairy products to dairy products?

right, but what about the studies made on chocolate milk and post workout muscle recovery?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/152240.php

so basically your beef is not with milk but with meat in general, milk is good. just make sure you get other nutrients

There's also some evidence that cows milk may contribute to cancer, although not milk from the channel island herds which lack the particular protein that is thought to cause this. So if you must drink cows milk then that would be your safest option.

so basically your beef is not with milk but with meat in general, milk is good. just make sure you get other nutrientsWait, he has a beef with meat? :D Sorry, that was a horrible joke :crucified

pretty much everything causes cancer nowdays.. I think I'll focus on whats good for me in the short term

pretty much everything causes cancer nowdays.. I think I'll focus on whats good for me in the short term

Focusing on the short term causes cancer, be careful.

All of this 'evidence' against milk seems to me like it is just pointing out a correlation. These studies cannot establish causality. Could it be that people in the west are generally less healthy and have worse diets, which would cause osteoporosis? I agree some of the evidence is compelling, but people have drank milk for thousands of years. All this evidence won't stop me....

an observation is not evidence. that it seems clear shows that it only seems that way given the data you have supplied.

where on earth and we must have gotten here so there seems to be some one who created us.

an apple falls to the ground so it seems like gravity is pulling the apple down.

tiny particles like pollen when suspened in water are moving very randomly when looked at through a microscope they almost seem to be alive so they must be.....unless you have an understanding of entrophy and what atoms are.

on top of that some of your evidence dosnt even have a connection to milk



too much calcium dosnt do anything. what does this have to do with milk?



protien and calcium nothing to do directly with milk.



nothing to do with calcium or even bones



IGF1 is actually a natural molecular structure similar to insulin. IGF-1 is the abbreviation for Insulin-Like Growth Factor 1.Know in scientific circles as a polypeptide protein hormone, IGF-1 or Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 plays a vital role in childhood growth and stimulates anabolic effects (muscle building) in adults.

whats your point? dosnt really seem like a bad thing, maybe in women.



Yes people are allergic to things.




now where linking it to diabeties...what dosnt milk cause im beginning to think some where in your post your gonna try and link it to aids....and its not even milk we are comparing, its a high protien diet to a low protien diet.

This is really getting old. I put the calcium intake study in there because someone had said milk is good becuase of calcium. So that answered that. Extra calcium, from milk or otherwise does not help the bones.

Protein and calcium have everything to do with milk. They are both in it in large quantities. If they have negative effects, then milk will.

I tossed the cancer thing in there because it was also thinked to milk. The thread is about milk and if it is good or not.

IGF-1 is not all it is cracked up to be. It has been linked to fat loss and hypertrophy, but also a shorter lifespan. But then again, its just a correlation. So it must be wrong. Right

Yes, people are allergic to things, especially milk.

And yes, it has been linked to diabetes. In fact the two strongest correlations with milk consumption I have researched are osteoporosis and type 1 diabetes.

Bottom line, milk is for infants. In every species. Some of us may have developed the ability to tolerate milk into adulthood. Doesnt mean its good for us.

The dietary change I am most proud of is limiting my dairy. My allergies went away, I breath easier, and I no longer get hand injuries. Correlation? I would say so. Proof? nope. I still know.

And to the other comment from bklynboy:
There is an issue with it being only japanese women. It is still interesting though. And some where in the mess of studies in this thread I posted one comparing two groups of american woman. One agreeing to stop drinking milk. It showed twice the bone loss in the milk group.

http://www.realmilk.com/
http://www.naturalphysiques.com/faq/260.html

milk is good for training and building muscle FTW

As far as milk building strong bone is a complete lie. Calcium is a metal that is the main building blocks of your bones. Calcium cannot be absorbed with the precense of protein. Milk is full of whey and casseine protein. Do a little bit of research and come to your own conclusion.

As far as milk building strong bone is a complete lie. Calcium is a metal that is the main building blocks of your bones. Calcium cannot be absorbed with the precense of protein. Milk is full of whey and casseine protein. Do a little bit of research and come to your own conclusion.

I do despise people who spew "science" without posting links to sources (that aren't wikipedia)

I dunno but I've been drinking soya milk for years.

I dunno but I've been drinking soya milk for years.

that would explain your ***** tits

I do despise people who spew "science" without posting links to sources (that aren't wikipedia)


google.com/search?q=calcium+absorption+presence+of+protein

There, I did the work for you.

Dietary protein content is thought to affect urinary calcium excretion. University of Connecticut's Jane Kersetter has led several studies in this area. An early study determined that for every 50 g of dietary protein consumed, 60 mg of calcium is excreted. Protein-induced hypercalciuria is thought to be partly due to an increased glomerular filtration rate and decreased renal calcium reabsorption. In another study, Kerstetter et al. reported that a low-protein diet leads to hypocalciuria and profound secondary hyperparathyroidism in young women. The jury is still out in regard to whether intestinal calcium absorption is affected by dietary protein. In a recent study, Kerstetter et al. sought to explore the etiology of low-protein induced secondary hyperparathyroidism and to further define the effect of dietary protein on intestinal calcium absorption in young women.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0887/is_1_18/ai_76283924/

that's great. So by bolding those words, are you maintaining a nuetral stand point? Noticing that they are exploring the relationship with calcium absorption in young women. What I want to see is more studies for men. I am just as curious as you.

that's great. So by bolding those words, are you maintaining a nuetral stand point? Noticing that they are exploring the relationship with calcium absorption in young women. What I want to see is more studies for men. I am just as curious as you.

I genuinely have no specific knowledge on this subject, now do I claim to. But if logic tells me something sounds suspect the most pessimistic findings are usually the most accurate. The correlation is probably not complete coincidence. But much can be said for what scientists have 'proven' by reading their actual results

Iluvboxing has convinced me in this thread. I'm gonna cut out dairy products for a period and note the changes.

Iluvboxing has convinced me in this thread. I'm gonna cut out dairy products for a period and note the changes.

You actually read the sources though right? I mean you're absolutely entitled to make up your own mind but the abstract posted on here shouldn't be what you are basing this on. Check out the full source first

You don't need dairy products.

Unfortunately this country is completely ignorant when it comes to a healthy diet.

All you have to do is remember the "food Pyramid", which was slammed into our heads when we were kids. It was %100 backed by the farming industry, and is one of the top reasons America is the fattest country in the world.

Most people would be amazed by how little food and how very basic foods can supply most of your nutritional needs. The only reason it's so damn complicated is because is because there is to much wrong information out there.

Then what about that sudy saying chocolate milk was pretty much the best recovery drink after exercise?

Then what about that sudy saying chocolate milk was pretty much the best recovery drink after exercise?

well just because its the best recovery drink dosnt mean it dosnt cause cancer diabetes osterperisios hip fractures allergies and a impenetrable wall of calcium mucus coating your intestine or so they say....like how they use a study that links high protien diets with diabeties....


A study of children in 40 countries found that the incidence of juvenile diabetes was directly related to diet: The higher the consumption of cow’s milk and other animal products, the greater the chance of developing diabetes. Conversely, children who consumed a largely vegetarian diet had a much lower incidence of diabetes.

but some how think that they can claim the study is directly linked to milk and milk is so much worse for you then say a hamburger.

.....or like how they again link a high protien diet to breast cancer



Japanese women who follow a more Western-style, meat- and dairy-based diet are eight times more likely to develop breast cancer than their counterparts who eat a plant-based diet not containing dairy products.

but some how this means that milk is the real culprit and not western style foods and meats. i mean even though they were part of the study its all milks fault for breast cancer and not a high protein diet.....

i dont get how us guys do boxing, risk concussions and injuries to our body and then worry about milk. yes the food industry nowadays.. u don't know what to believe. so stick to the basics, have your milk, eat your veggies and fruits, a little meat, and hope you don't die too early.

if you're really scared, you might go for a detox. Potatoes cause cancer, milk causes cancer, types of sugars cause cancer. it's because of the synthetic crap thats used nowadays. everything is lethal. Milk builds bones, it helps repair muscle fibres, live on, work hard, stay positive (because stress is still the biggest cause of death in the world, believe it or not) and be happy.

no adult animal has milk, i dont see why we do
especially another animals milk

no adult animal has milk, i dont see why we do especially another animals milk

drinks?

No adult animal can write i dont see why we do that either.

no but really do you think a lion really cares if hes drinking milk or not? if he just bit into some zebras milk sack and theres milk every where is the lion going to put the zebra down and move onto another one because drinking some other animals milk isnt natural but eating every other bit of it is.

drinks?

No adult animal can write i dont see why we do that either.

no but really do you think a lion really cares if hes drinking milk or not? if he just bit into some zebras milk sack and theres milk every where is the lion going to put the zebra down and move onto another one because drinking some other animals milk isnt natural but eating every other bit of it is.

my point is they dont need the milk, and they are still bigger than us, with stronger bones and strnger muscles

what im sayin is, milk doesn't do ****, most people are naturally lactose intolerant for a reason

What are your thoughts on Milk?

Lots of people debate whether it's good or bad.

Alot of people say it's no good for you and is has chemicals and steriods in it, and it isnt healthly to drink something from a cow. And it's a myth that it makes your bones stronger etc. And you shound't drink it. And shound't eat nothing that milk has been apart of.

But other people say you have to drink milk, it really helps your bones and growth and provides.

I don't know what to belive...........:burnup:

In england we have nothing to worry about in regards to the growth hormone issue. reason is in some states in america some farmers inject there cows with growth hormone to force the cows to produce a lot more milk! This isnt healthy and produces puss in the milk. Disgusting eh? By and large milk is good for you tho. good guality protein and calcium, yes there fat and lactose but you can solve the fat issue by buying skimmed but theres too many positives to worry about the lactose.

In england we have nothing to worry about in regards to the growth hormone issue. reason is in some states in america some farmers inject there cows with growth hormone to force the cows to produce a lot more milk! This isnt healthy and produces puss in the milk. Disgusting eh? By and large milk is good for you tho. good guality protein and calcium, yes there fat and lactose but you can solve the fat issue by buying skimmed but theres too many positives to worry about the lactose.

they inject the cows over here too buddy.. they do selective breeding now, thats the next step.

Belgian blue cow, this breed has come after selective breeding

http://www.bio.miami.edu/~cmallery/150/neuro/belgian.blue.jpg

the Anol' of the cows.. hehe..

they inject the cows over here too buddy.. they do selective breeding now, thats the next step.

Belgian blue cow, this breed has come after selective breeding

http://www.bio.miami.edu/~cmallery/150/neuro/belgian.blue.jpg

the Anol' of the cows.. hehe..

WOW thats quite disturbing. I thought it was illigal to put growth hormone into the cows? And thats not a cow, its a jokka lump of muscle :o

they inject the cows over here too buddy.. they do selective breeding now, thats the next step.

Belgian blue cow, this breed has come after selective breeding

http://www.bio.miami.edu/~cmallery/150/neuro/belgian.blue.jpg

the Anol' of the cows.. hehe..

that cow is double muscled, it's a natural gene

that cow is double muscled, it's a natural gene

that's called gene doping, it has a genetic mutation due to overbreeding, which is extreme selective breeding, the cows can't give natural birth, because of the double muscles, it has to be caesarian. they got the myostatine gene fixed in mice too, so mice with more muscles.. the next steps is doing that with humans.. so dont worry and drink ur milk.. lol

that's called gene doping, it has a genetic mutation due to overbreeding, which is extreme selective breeding, the cows can't give natural birth, because of the double muscles, it has to be caesarian. they got the myostatine gene fixed in mice too, so mice with more muscles.. the next steps is doing that with humans.. so dont worry and drink ur milk.. lol

there's already a kid that s double muscled

there's already a kid that s double muscled

i dont mean by birth, i mean altering ppl to get ppl double muscled, so we had steroids and stuff and it's gonna go to gene doping. can u imagine? for real? ppl r crazy man..

i dont mean by birth, i mean altering ppl to get ppl double muscled, so we had steroids and stuff and it's gonna go to gene doping. can u imagine? for real? ppl r crazy man..

if youve had mc donalds fries recently youve had genetically altered potatoes that are designed with a built in potato beetle pesticide.

what im sayin is, milk doesn't do ****, most people are naturally lactose intolerant for a reason

most people can't hydrolyse lactose, but lactose intolerance is an adverse reaction to lactose ie. being sick or IBS. most people are not lactose intolerant.

..and the belgian blue breed, as with all breeds/species created by selective breeding are the result of a mutation, in this case a lack of myostatin receptors. not the result of growth hormones

if youve had mc donalds fries recently youve had genetically altered potatoes that are designed with a built in potato beetle pesticide.

ughh.. thats disgusting man! i think capitalism is gonna kill us all one day like this.. blegh..

(capitalism because potatoes with built in pesticide are made to increase profitability, less rotting, eaten by bugs, more in supermarkets means more money, same reason for the gene altered cows, for those of u who dont understand)

ughh.. thats disgusting man! i think capitalism is gonna kill us all one day like this.. blegh..

(capitalism because potatoes with built in pesticide are made to increase profitability, less rotting, eaten by bugs, more in supermarkets means more money, same reason for the gene altered cows, for those of u who dont understand)

If you don't like it don't buy it. That's capitalism.

However it doesn't have a built in pesticide if by pesticide you mean a poison. Some plants are more susceptible to draught or certain diseases. Others not. For generations farmers have been selecting plants that have the best characteristics: see corn, rice, wheat, etc... Sometimes you have plants that have the same ancestry and humans in different areas, by selecting different characteristics, created quite different seeming plants: for example broccoli and cauliflower.

How can you be appalled by people coming up with new draught and disease resistance plants?

If you don't like it don't buy it. That's capitalism.

However it doesn't have a built in pesticide if by pesticide you mean a poison. Some plants are more susceptible to draught or certain diseases. Others not. For generations farmers have been selecting plants that have the best characteristics: see corn, rice, wheat, etc... Sometimes you have plants that have the same ancestry and humans in different areas, by selecting different characteristics, created quite different seeming plants: for example broccoli and cauliflower.

How can you be appalled by people coming up with new draught and disease resistance plants?

well its more so there is a type of potato that is resistant to the potato beetle but mc donalads uses only one kind of potato so monsanto genetically combined the 2 kinds of potato's to give a potato that mc donalds likes with a plant thats resistant to the potato beetle

when what they really should be doing is diversifying the kinds of potatoes they use.

If you don't like it don't buy it. That's capitalism.

However it doesn't have a built in pesticide if by pesticide you mean a poison. Some plants are more susceptible to draught or certain diseases. Others not. For generations farmers have been selecting plants that have the best characteristics: see corn, rice, wheat, etc... Sometimes you have plants that have the same ancestry and humans in different areas, by selecting different characteristics, created quite different seeming plants: for example broccoli and cauliflower.

How can you be appalled by people coming up with new draught and disease resistance plants?

yeah but that's already the past man. they're genetically and synthetically altering the foods, you're messing with nature, ok cauliflower and broccoli, good ones. but potatoes cause cancer? hello?! milk with hormones? chicken with hormones? do u know chicken is injected with so much salty water u can get a 35% chicken at some markets?

yes there is of course a good side, and i'm thankful for that, i'm talking about the negative side effects that are harming people, you know what i mean? i mean, Milk isnt supposed to harm people, neither is chicken, potatoes?

thats what i mean.

well its more so there is a type of potato that is resistant to the potato beetle but mc donalads uses only one kind of potato so monsanto genetically combined the 2 kinds of potato's to give a potato that mc donalds likes with a plant thats resistant to the potato beetle

when what they really should be doing is diversifying the kinds of potatoes they use.

I couldn't agree with you more. I don't have a problem genetic modification but planting acre after acre with one crop is simply asking for big-time problems.

yeah but that's already the past man. they're genetically and synthetically altering the foods, you're messing with nature, ok cauliflower and broccoli, good ones. but potatoes cause cancer? hello?! milk with hormones? chicken with hormones? do u know chicken is injected with so much salty water u can get a 35% chicken at some markets?

yes there is of course a good side, and i'm thankful for that, i'm talking about the negative side effects that are harming people, you know what i mean? i mean, Milk isnt supposed to harm people, neither is chicken, potatoes?

thats what i mean.

There's a difference between using growth hormones and genetically altering food. Now you realize that farmers who selectively breed their crops are genetically altering that crop. We speed things up when we do it in a lab but how is that, in and of itself, bad?

People worry that about the new crop "taking over" when introduced into the wild. We suffer from that every day. All sorts of plants and animals have been introduced into environments where they have no natural preditors and they become major nuisances.

Going back to the topic at hand, I think that genetically modified food is simply speeding up the process. There are good results and bad results but I don't think that negates the value of genetically modified plants.

I read that the Dutch people are the tallest people in the world.....and it is because of their consumption of Milk and cheese.

I don't understand why milk would be bad when it is our first food as a baby. I give my kids the Organic whole milk kind.......if I listen to most of you and convince me to stop giving them milk....they have a big chance of not growing into their full potential. JMHO.

People forget that you do need fats.

I read that the Dutch people are the tallest people in the world.....and it is because of their consumption of Milk and cheese.

I don't understand why milk would be bad when it is our first food as a baby. I give my kids the Organic whole milk kind.......if I listen to most of you and convince me to stop giving them milk....they have a big chance of not growing into their full potential. JMHO.

true, what about the kenyans and tanzania's? you think they get alot of milk?

true, what about the kenyans and tanzania's? you think they get alot of milk?

What do you mean?

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What do you mean?

im wonderin, because i plan on going a month without milk as a test, it's been 5 days and im in need of an excuse that will prove milk is good for you so i dont have to, so far every dr. says it's overrated

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The doctor is a bit of an idiot....first he claims Cow's milk is different from human milk and that it's purpose is for calves only (not intended for humans)........then he fed it to mice and claims it causes them cancer. So mice milk is closer to human milk then? Get it? What a dumb ass.

true, what about the kenyans and tanzania's? you think they get alot of milk?

No. That's why they skinny ass mofos.
The Dutch tend to be pretty borad as well as tall though, which means they can't really be compared with kenyans, whose physiology probably comes from historical genetic advantage in requiring less food and having less thermal insulation via less fatty tissue.