I've posted the below content in another thread, but no one responded as the thread was already chewed over and done with (sorry Anorak)
Thus I decided to make it a new thread and wanted to hear your opinions

The below is not meant to offend anyone, not Klitschko fans/haters, nor Hopkins, where I just used him as an example. Here it goes:
_________________________________________________

One thing that bothers me...
I don't mean the below thoughts to be racist, or to offend anyone.
But everyone always refers to Klitschko's as "Giants". "The reason they are so good is because of their size." "If they were smaller they would be crushed" and etc..
Yes, those are all true statements. But how come their disadvantages are never taken into consideration.
It is a known fact that black people have much better stamina, naturally more athletic, have better chins, don't get cut as easily, and last but not least breath easier due to bigger nostrils.
Do you think all that equates to size advantage?

How really big are the Klitschko's compared to their competition?
I did a little statistics where I took Top 20 guys from Boxrec and averaged their height and weight. Here are my findings below:

Vitali's Hight: +almost 4 inches above the competition
Vitali's Weight: +5.5lb above competition

Wlad's Hight: + almost 2.5 inches above competition
Wlad's Weight: -3.5lb above competition

Is that such a huge difference, especially in Wlad's case? He is only 2.5 inches taller on average than the rest. And is 3.5 pound lighter. Most of us are saying he should still drop 5-10 pounds. So are they really that much "bigger" and do they really have all that advantage everyone talks about?

I did the same statistics for our P4P King: Bernard Hopkins and his division.

Hopkins is also like Wlad is almost 2.5 inches above the rest in the division. (Weight of course is not a factor)
How come no one is saying "Hopkins is so good because of his size"?


Your thoughts.

i thought there were talks (im not sure) of adding a superheavyweight division..... :confused:

Good points. I never looked at it like that. Not sure about the whole black thing on some points but I agree with most of your post.

Hard to be good and white and not be called "hype".

Good points. I never looked at it like that. Not sure about the whole black thing on some points but I agree with most of your post.

Hard to be good and white and not be called "hype".
Thanks :-)

What are the things you disagree with?

i for one think that vit klit only has his size going for him.he fights flatfooted,his power isnt that great,has very limited boxing skills,almost no defence,and has robotic movment.out of the three paper champs that we have ,vit is the better of the three,only because of his size.byrd's skills are way better than vits.but byrd lacks power big time,thats why he is such a boring fighter to watch.the only one of the champs thats skills are 100 times worse than vits is john "i love holding and dancing with men in the ring" ruiz.now wlad on the other hand actually has skills.he has a damn good jab,awesome combos when he puts them together.had good defence until he got tagged by sanders.he is a shattered boxer ever since that KO loss to sanders.it is like he is gun shy.scared to get hit.i dont think he will ever be as good as he was before the sanders fight.right nwow the HW division is shyt and looks like its going to stay that way for a long time.

i for one think that vit klit only has his size going for him.he fights flatfooted,his power isnt that great,has very limited boxing skills,almost no defence,and has robotic movment.out of the three paper champs that we have ,vit is the better of the three,only because of his size.byrd's skills are way better than vits.but byrd lacks power big time,thats why he is such a boring fighter to watch.the only one of the champs thats skills are 100 times worse than vits is john "i love holding and dancing with men in the ring" ruiz.now wlad on the other hand actually has skills.he has a damn good jab,awesome combos when he puts them together.had good defence until he got tagged by sanders.he is a shattered boxer ever since that KO loss to sanders.it is like he is gun shy.scared to get hit.i dont think he will ever be as good as he was before the sanders fight.right nwow the HW division is shyt and looks like its going to stay that way for a long time.
Sorry, the thread was not about your opinion on the HW division.

Word of advise though...
Next time you post, use a space after period, Capitalize the first letter of a sentence and try to sum up your thoughts in paragraphs. Makes it easier for all to read.

Good comment on the last poster but VDiary come on........


"It is a known fact that black people have better Stamina"

NO. ITS NOT.

Vitali does have skills. A man of his size, you most definately have to have boxing ability in order to be champion. Do you know how hard it is to go at the pace Vitali goes when standing at 6'8 250IB? Vitali brings a new style to boxing. Many might find it un appealing and cause of that say he has no skills. Although in reality his style developed through his boxing ability. Size is just an added factor.

Good comment on the last poster but VDiary come on........


"It is a known fact that black people have better Stamina"

NO. ITS NOT.
I'm not picking on anyone is particular.
You don't think that Black people have naturally better physical condition? I believe that in most sports where stamina is a factor, black athletes usually dominate

Vitali does have skills. A man of his size, you most definately have to have boxing ability in order to be champion. Do you know how hard it is to go at the pace Vitali goes when standing at 6'8 250IB? Vitali brings a new style to boxing. Many might find it un appealing and cause of that say he has no skills. Although in reality his style developed through his boxing ability. Size is just an added factor.Enayze,

Something leads me to believe that you just read the title, or the whole thread? :)

Good points. Not sure about the whole black thing on some points.

Hard to be good and white and not be called "hype".

I agree with this portion of your reply. Vdiary raises some valid questions.

However, I don't think I've ever seen or even heard about any statistical data generated proving that black people have better stamina, are athletes, chins, and so on, than other races.

I believe there is an acceptance that generally black people have an advantage in their skull structure around the eye brow (more blunt and dull) reducing the cut factor above the eye.

IMO - The black dominance in many sports has been more a product of environment.

People are People and mostly the same. Unless your McKay.

It seems to me that because of where they came up from that black people seem to be in general more athletic.
I dont want to sound racist but if you look at the last several years of sports the best atheletes are blacks. Micheal Jordan, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, (dont know any football players but there are probably a lot of these guys)

And if you watched the olypmics the fastest men in the planet (the 100yrd sprinters) top 10 were I think all black...

Sorry, the thread was not about your opinion on the HW division.

i dont give a **** what the thread is about stupid ass.i just say what is evident is your paper champ and the HW division as a whole.i dont need nor want your approval on anything i type on here.and this forum is about typeing not about grammer and proper punctuation.seems to me that you read my comments pretty clear or you wouldnt have said something about it.just because yopur guy is in the weakest era of the HW division and alot of people think he is a joke dont mena you have to get mad at me,your guy is just an average HW.he will be nothing more.when lewis stepped down your guy became a paper champ because he didnt beat the man who beat the man.vit has no skills other than his size and i think thats what the thread was about.and the comments on black people being better atheletes can be traced back to slave days in america.white slave owners breed the biggest and strongest blacks they could so the could work hard for them.i know im gonna get flamed for saying that but its true.when you breed race horses you breed the biggest and fastest mare and stud you can find.it was no different during slave times.think about it.

and this forum is about typeing not about grammer and proper punctuation

i meant this forum is about boxing not grammer or proper punctuation!!!!!!!

i meant this forum is about boxing not grammer or proper punctuation!!!!!!!
It's a forum where you should conceder that other people might want to read your junk thoughts. Therefore make it presentable and readable for others. I'm not even attempting to read your posts as you are just a waste of my time.

I'm not even attempting to read your posts as you are just a waste of my time.


and you my friend,is a load that your mother should have swallowed...i dont give a **** about you not reading my post.i have more boxing knowledge in my lil toe then in that pea brain head of yours.the closest your prolly ever got to a boxing ring is the one you see on tv.i know i know.it just hurts when someone actually knows what he is talking about when it comes to your paper champ vit quitscko.

I dunno bout black peeps havin best stamina in any sports. It has to do wit wit peeps and environment/society. I dunno.

there are differences between white and black athletes,
blacks have in general longer legs and arms, and smaller body, whites have bigger body's with smaller arms and legs in general.
indeed blacks dominate 100meters sprints because they have more fast twitch muscle fibers, wich are explosive muscles, so they can run hard for short period of time, they tire quickly those muscles, whites are stronger(in general) look at strong man competition or all strength sports, arm wrestling, olympic weightlifting, strongman competition etc. chin nobody has a edge although if you look at history in boxing whites tend to have the better chins, best heavy chin ever tex cobb, chuvalo(both white) lamotta etc. but ofcourse you have blacks with great chins too hagler, holyfield etc. so every race has it's advantage. it's obvious in american football the runners are usually black, and those quaterback are usually white.

but the differences are very small indeed, 2 olympics ago it was a white man the greek who won the 100 m so there are exceptions, and still the most important factor is envirment, back in the days you had a lot of white guys in boxing because they where poor too, now most white people are rich and blacks are still pooor so they go in sports, but even blacks get richer, that's why they don't box anymore look at heavyweight division.

WELL OF COURSE it is size............if a middleweight contender is 1 poun d heavier than his opponent, he can't fight him.

So you have the heavyweight division with no limit. So it is very unfair to those 100kg/220lb 6'2" boxers who fight the huge Klitschko's, Valuev, Whitaker, etc...

Look at Etienne vs Valuev...there was a 10inch or so height advantage and a whopping 53kg/115lb difference...

I've said it before and I say it again, if VT or WK were 6'2, you never would have heard of them.......this is the reason why i don't respect the HW division...many many match-ups are not fair.

size is an advantage, but not a dominating factor..... that's why grant, mccline and jefferson cant beat a decent heavyweight with skills... they have size and strenght, but little skill...

ITs interesting what I've read about different races and their advantages in sports. I also noticed that in olympic swimming 99% of swimmers are white. Why is that?
Anyway back to subject. Size is just as much of a physical gift as power or speed or good chin. But there is a difference that Size can work against you whilst power or speed or chin dont. These physical abilities are always working for you its just a matter of how well can you use them. Size.
If you dont know how to use it to your advantage is your curse against shorter, faster fighters that will fight you on the inside where huge person is usually helpless so it all comes down to skill. Very usual skill of using your body to the fullest.
Where would have been Mike Tyson if he could not use his power or speed. Where would have been Jones if he could not use his reflexes. You prolly would not even heard about them if they could not use their athletic abilities. Klitschko is doing absolutley the same thing, which is using his phisical abilities to master his opponenets.
So if he did not have his size but had crushing power of Tyson or blinding speed of Jones he would have used them. So it is all comes down on how well you can capitlise on your opponents weaknesses and your own strengths. Ofcourse of Vitaly did not have any outstanding physical attributes he would not be where he is, but so is any other decent champion

I have a thread about punching power and it's relation with bone mass. Although you went to know not just about power but about advantages in general.
Reach is another advantage.
If they are tall and not fat it's another advantage.
These two reasons are why I picked Wlad to win over Eliseo.

Nicolay Valuev it's 333 lbs and 7 feet, do any of you saw how good is he?
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=019904

matter size does, everything it is not

Can someone please tell me where I can find and view the data on all these studies about which race is better at what?

So far I've only heard opinions that people are claiming to be fact.

People are just people. We are all pretty much the same. IMO - The racial dominance in the different sports is a product of environment. The factual differences between the races are subtle, unless your McKay.

Can someone please tell me where I can find and view the data on all these studies about which race is better at what?

So far I've only heard opinions that people are claiming to be fact.

People are just people. We are all pretty much the same. IMO - The racial dominance in the different sports is a product of environment. The factual differences between the races are subtle, unless your McKay.
Me too. I think that all the races are more or less the same but just like you I heard a lot of people say that some races have special traits that help them in sports but i never saw the proof. But the thing i said in swimming is my own observation from last three olympic games.

I have a thread about punching power and it's relation with bone mass. Although you went to know not just about power but about advantages in general.
Reach is another advantage.
If they are tall and not fat it's another advantage.
These two reasons are why I picked Wlad to win over Eliseo.

Nicolay Valuev it's 333 lbs and 7 feet, do any of you saw how good is he?
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=019904
Dont look at his record. So far he did not fight anybody that is even decent enough or at least a top ten. But I knoe that he is #3 in WBA. So he might be fighting Ruiz soon.

I have heard that black people tend to have more fast-twitch muscle fibers from many people, but have never read it in a book. As far as black athletes being more successful, the less athletes you have of a certain skin color in any given sport, the less chance there is of one of them being successful, which was the case long ago for blacks because whites wouldn't let them join in the reindeer games. Later on, the flood of participation from blacks and latinos coupled with the withdrawal more or less by whites swung the momentum the other way. Nowadays, the number of whites and blacks who are successful (have good jobs) is much closer to being balanced than it has ever been, meaning the number of whites and blacks participating in boxing is also much closer than it has been in a long time. VK and Wlad use their size because that is what they have. Ali never relied on power because he didn't have much, and it didn't matter anyway because he had calcium deposits in his hands which means he couldn't bear to punch hard. Tex Cobb used his chin to make his mark in boxing, it's all he had. If VK and Wlad weren't large men, they might have been faster. I believe that size can be as much a hinderance as a help in boxing because of the lack of overall coordination seen in such large fighters. Anyway, their size is a big part of what makes them who they are, and you can't be successful in boxing without at least some skill, so they deserve at least some credit, IMO

Me too. I think that all the races are more or less the same but just like you I heard a lot of people say that some races have special traits that help them in sports but i never saw the proof. But the thing i said in swimming is my own observation from last three olympic games.

Maybe black people don't like to swim, or the swim scouts discriminate lol I don't know.

Man, i just read my own post and feel embarassed now. Sorry for so many mistakes and bad format. I did not sleep for last 4 days.
College exams and clubbing after them kill me now.

Maybe black people don't like to swim, or the swim scouts discriminate lol I don't know.
I'm waiting for someone to say the Earths gravitational pull is stronger on black people so they have a tendency to sink.

???????????????

i read something about races some time back,cant remeber where though.

anyway i said that blacks are more explosive but whites are stronger (especially slavs).

didnt say anything about stamina ore chin.

saying blacks are naturally more athletic and have better chins is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Breathe easier due to bigger nostrils? Where did you pull that out of your ass . . . .?? It's like Im reading some turn of the century British anthropologist . . .

saying blacks are naturally more athletic and have better chins is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Breathe easier due to bigger nostrils? Where did you pull that out of your ass . . . .?? It's like Im reading some turn of the century British anthropologist . . .I expect everyone to be a grown up and not to turn this into racism. This is a boxing forum and I don't see why race in sports cannot be discussed.

"Breathe easier due to bigger nostrils? Where did you pull that out of your ass . . . .??"
No, not my ass... Humans are about 1Mil years old; The 'Modern Human' is about 6,000 years old. As any species we all adopt to the geographic environment we live in.
Black people have dark skin due to the worm climate. Black person can be exposed to the sun a lot longer than the white without getting burned.
White people have small nostrils, this is due to the winter and the cold air they breath.
As same as we are all are, we are somewhat differences.

The information about black athletes I listed in the original post came from an African American course I took back in college. I was taught that, again due to the geographic environment.

Thus this also applies in Sports..
Asian have the best reflexes: Ping Pong, Kong-Fu, etc..
Black have the fastest legs: Sprinters, American Football, etc
White, like someone mentioned, are best swimmers, etc
Latin best boxers in light weight, etc

I think VK's Size definately Helps him, I mean lets say he was the size of Ruiz, or Byrd, the way his jab doesn't quite snap like the likes of Lewis, i think he would get soundly beaten, plus the size is always a hard thing for a smaller boxer to overcome.

Having said that he does have some skill, for a flat footed, rather slowish fighter

I think VK's Size definately Helps him, I mean lets say he was the size of Ruiz, or Byrd, the way his jab doesn't quite snap like the likes of Lewis, i think he would get soundly beaten, plus the size is always a hard thing for a smaller boxer to overcome.

Having said that he does have some skill, for a flat footed, rather slowish fighter

Yes but if he wasnt as big he probably wouldnt be as mechanical, he would be more mobile and probably been a better boxer.

Yeah I think I read somewhere that white people used to swim a lot 1 million years ago in arctic Europe. I think that's how they lost their fur. I think they swam right through the last ice age.

Oh, and I think size is an advantage if used properly

all it will take to kayo vitali is a heavyweight with a solid chin, decent power, and most important, excellent stamina. the guy looks like he could fall over just on pure exhaustion if he gets in the later rounds. why is that? because of his tremendous size. he can only build so much stamina at 6'8. if he gets in a competitive fight into the championship rounds he will go down HARD, and probably retire.

that first post is filled with the most bull**** i've read in a while. it's a known fact that blacks are more athletic? where are your sources? known fact my ****ing ass. you made that **** up.

I'm waiting for someone to say the Earths gravitational pull is stronger on black people so they have a tendency to sink.

???????????????

Hadn't thought of that one lol

Would have probably gotten a rise lol

With Vitali it's definatly an advantage...

But with Bernard it doesn't really matter that he's taller... What's important is that he weighs 160lbs the day before the fight.

It's the difference why the heavyweight division is so different to all the other weight catogories.

it's only an advantage if you use it the right way, klitschko has been able to use his height very well that's the difference, a lot of taller guys don't use their height because they fight down to their opponents level

all it will take to kayo vitali is a heavyweight with a solid chin, decent power, and most important, excellent stamina. the guy looks like he could fall over just on pure exhaustion if he gets in the later rounds. why is that? because of his tremendous size. he can only build so much stamina at 6'8. if he gets in a competitive fight into the championship rounds he will go down HARD, and probably retire.

I agree with the lack of top-notch stamina in larger fighters, although basketball players seem to do fairly well. that being said, he always looks like that, that's been the source of much of the scrutiny by the boxing media and boxing fans alike, coupled with his clumbsy appearance. But the attributes you're talking about aren't that easy to find in one package firstly, and secondly even if one came along, there's no guarantee he'd beat VK. If Wlad continues to use his height to his advantage as well, instead of fighting smaller like he used to, he could be a force to be reckoned with as well. I still say that size can be just as much a hinderance as a help though.

Yes but if he wasnt as big he probably wouldnt be as mechanical, he would be more mobile and probably been a better boxer.

Thank you very much...