Who do you think should be remembered as the greater fighter and why?

Jack Johnson, because I feel that he beat the better fighters.

`Jack Johnson one of the greatest in all fistiana`

Jack Johnson

Mickey Walker for me. Was a natural welterweight and competed evenly with top ranked heavyweights. Jack Johnson had a size advantage over most of his opponents.

I thought you said Johnson was only 193 lbs in his prime?

Jack Johnson for the **** he had to put up with outside the ring and the barriers he helped to break.

I thought you said Johnson was only 193 lbs in his prime?

Depends on what you believe was his peak.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A02EFDA113EE233A25755C2A9649D94 6997D6CF

According to this article, Johnson was 192 pounds when he faced Tommy Burns for the world heavyweight title. Johnson was 30 years old then. The younger, 28 year old Jack Johnson who faced Sam Langford weighed 185 pounds. The 32 year old Johnson who faced Jim Jeffries weighed 208 pounds.

In almost all of his important fights, outside of the Jeffries and Willard fights, Jack Johnson outweighed his opponents. Stanley Ketchel was only a bloated middleweight, Tommy Burns weighed 168 pounds, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien weighed 162 pounds, Sam Langford weighed 156 pounds, George Gardner weighed 155 pounds.

Mickey Walker on the other hand was outweighed by 30 pounds against Jack Sharkey, 30 pounds against Paulino Uzcudun, 30 pounds against Johnny Risko, 40+ pounds against Bearcat Wright, 50 pounds against Arthur De Kuh.

Jack Johnson for the **** he had to put up with outside the ring and the barriers he helped to break.

Johnson broke a barrier while leaving bigger ones behind him. Before Johnson, black fighters could at least get shots below Heavyweight. For almost a decade after, that stopped being the case. Siki, Flowers and Thompson (at Welterweight) helped to change that but Joe Louis was the one who really wrecked the glass ceiling.

The post-Johnson years weigh more heavily towards asinine racism around him but he didn't help matters by being generally a dick. Hard to feel too bad for a guy whose seeming favorite pasttime out of the ring was beating women into lengthy hospital stays.

Depends on what you believe was his peak.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A02EFDA113EE233A25755C2A9649D94 6997D6CF

According to this article, Johnson was 192 pounds when he faced Tommy Burns for the world heavyweight title. Johnson was 30 years old then. The younger, 28 year old Jack Johnson who faced Sam Langford weighed 185 pounds. The 32 year old Johnson who faced Jim Jeffries weighed 208 pounds.

In almost all of his important fights, outside of the Jeffries and Willard fights, Jack Johnson outweighed his opponents. Stanley Ketchel was only a bloated middleweight, Tommy Burns weighed 168 pounds, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien weighed 162 pounds, Sam Langford weighed 156 pounds, George Gardner weighed 155 pounds.

Mickey Walker on the other hand was outweighed by 30 pounds against Jack Sharkey, 30 pounds against Paulino Uzcudun, 30 pounds against Johnny Risko, 40+ pounds against Bearcat Wright, 50 pounds against Arthur De Kuh.

No doubt it would be a great fight p4p.

The fighters you listed who had alot of weight advantage over the bulldog would get "toyed with" by Jack Johnson.I think you would agree with this.

No doubt it would be a great fight p4p.

The fighters you listed who had alot of weight advantage over the bulldog would get "toyed with" by Jack Johnson.I think you would agree with this.

Not Jack Sharkey. Even Uzcudun and Risko could possibly give Jack Johnson a hard time.

Not Jack Sharkey. Even Uzcudun and Risko could possibly give Jack Johnson a hard time.

How do you think they would plan to hit Johnson? And how do you think they would be able to execute hitting Johnson?

Sharkey was a "head case" and Johnson would rattle him.

How do you think they would plan to hit Johnson? And how do you think they would be able to execute hitting Johnson?

Sharkey was a "head case" and Johnson would rattle him.

They would hit him at mid-range. Johnson's best defense was his clinch but he wasn't used to slipping a consistent jab and combinations. The small Philadelphia Jack O'Brien actually had the better of Jack Johnson from a distance but the 40 pound weight advantage obviously told when Johnson was able to catch up to O'Brien.

I believe he would beat Uzcudun, Risko who mostly fought in close, that's where Jack Johnson was at his best, but Sharkey with his more "modern" approach would present some real difficulties for Johnson if Sharkey doesn't get too much into the clinching, which he did against the likes of Tom Heeney, Risko. In that case he'd get outfought by Johnson.

Sharkey beat some of the best avoided black heavyweights of his era, the aging Harry Wills who was also noted for his ability to fight in the clinches and the feared George Godfrey. He had no trouble beating them. The problem was that he often lost his focus and could be forced to fight the opponent's fight, even against far inferior boxers. He sometimes had trouble dealing with pressure.

Jack Johnson however usually relied on his opponents to do the leading for him and then gradually wore them down in the clinches. If Sharkey decides to box instead of slug then Johnson might have to come out of his comfort zone and actually make the fight as he would not necessarily be getting the better of the fight at long-range. No one ever truly outboxed a prime Sharkey.

They would hit him at mid-range. Johnson's best defense was his clinch but he wasn't used to slipping a consistent jab and combinations. The small Philadelphia Jack O'Brien actually had the better of Jack Johnson from a distance but the 40 pound weight advantage obviously told when Johnson was able to catch up to O'Brien.

I believe he would beat Uzcudun, Risko who mostly fought in close, that's where Jack Johnson was at his best, but Sharkey with his more "modern" approach would present some real difficulties for Johnson if Sharkey doesn't get too much into the clinching, which he did against the likes of Tom Heeney, Risko. In that case he'd get outfought by Johnson.

Sharkey beat some of the best avoided black heavyweights of his era, the aging Harry Wills who was also noted for his ability to fight in the clinches and the feared George Godfrey. He had no trouble beating them. The problem was that he often lost his focus and could be forced to fight the opponent's fight, even against far inferior boxers. He sometimes had trouble dealing with pressure.

Jack Johnson however usually relied on his opponents to do the leading for him and then gradually wore them down in the clinches. If Sharkey decides to box instead of slug then Johnson might have to come out of his comfort zone and actually make the fight as he would not necessarily be getting the better of the fight at long-range. No one ever truly outboxed a prime Sharkey.

Sharkey sure had the skills when he had his head in the fight.But he was to unprecictable to state he would give Jack Johnson all he wanted.

Johnson was great at picking off punches with his gloves(The best ever),so he didn't need to slip punches.He would pick off Starkey's punches with his gloves with ease,and tie him up in the clinches.Sharkey would become bewildered and frustrated,and like other fights not be in the fight with his head.He was to much a "head case" to go out on the limb and say he would be a handfull for Johnson.I believe Sam Langford would beat Sharkey as well.Sharkey is far from being a great fighter.Johnson was!!

Sharkey sure had the skills when he had his head in the fight.But he was to unprecictable to state he would give Jack Johnson all he wanted.

Johnson was great at picking off punches with his gloves(The best ever),so he didn't need to slip punches.He would pick off Starkey's punches with his gloves with ease,and tie him up in the clinches.Sharkey would become bewildered and frustrated,and like other fights not be in the fight with his head.He was to much a "head case" to go out on the limb and say he would be a handfull for Johnson.I believe Sam Langford would beat Sharkey as well.Sharkey is far from being a great fighter.Johnson was!!

Jack Johnson was great at picking off single punches but I wonder if he'd be able to pick off Sharkey's combinations.

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Sharkey handling Max Schmeling at 3:40.

Maybe a prime Langford would beat Sharkey but I think Jack Johnson would have had his troubles with a prime Langford as well, not the 156 lb young Langford that he fought.

Even Joe Louis's trainer said Johnson would beat Louis.What would he say about Johnson vs Sharkey for crying out loud!!

Mismatch....And I think you know it.

Even Joe Louis's trainer said Johnson would beat Louis.What would he say about Johnson vs Sharkey for crying out loud!!

Mismatch....And I think you know it.

Jack Johnson was hardly such a dominating force outside of his win over washed up Jim Jeffries and a super middleweight in Tommy Burns. He went 20 close rounds with Frank Moran, struggled against Battling Jim Johnson, struggled with Philadelphia Jack O'Brien (a middleweight). On film I don't see any evidence that he would "toy" with Jack Sharkey.

Jack Johnson was hardly such a dominating force outside of his win over washed up Jim Jeffries and a super middleweight in Tommy Burns. He went 20 close rounds with Frank Moran, struggled against Battling Jim Johnson, struggled with Philadelphia Jack O'Brien (a middleweight). On film I don't see any evidence that he would "toy" with Jack Sharkey.
not to mention got leveled by stanley ketchel...

not to mention got leveled by stanley ketchel...

You do know the story behind that knockdown?

You should be ashamed to mention that when trying to down the great Jack Johnson.How long did it take Johnson to KO Ketchel when he tried? 5 seconds? Lol