I was watching CNN one evening while I was on vacation and I caught the following Lou Dobbs segment. Since there have been several threads regarding illegal immigration I thought I would post it and let people respond with their opinions.


In Kansas, a group of college students is suing that state over a policy that grants instate college tuition to illegal aliens, a privilege that is denied many American students. This group of 24 U.S. citizens says the practice violates federal law, and they want it stopped.


KEYWORDS: ALIENS; IMMIGRANTLIST; INSTATETUITION
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Bill Tucker has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kristen Day is a student at Kansas State University. She's an out of state student and, as such, pays almost $8,000 more per year than an in-state student or an illegal alien. She is one of the plaintiffs challenging the tuition break given to illegal aliens.

KRISTEN DAY, STUDENT, KANSAS STATE UNIVERSITY: I don't see how it's fair at all. You know, I've lived in this country for almost 22 years. And people who have been here for, you know, I don't know how long, maybe just a few years and they're getting the better end of the stick than I am. I just don't see any way of how this is fair at all.

TUCKER: And apparently it's in violation of federal law. Section 505 of the Immigration Reform Act of 1996 clearly states that, quote, "an alien who is not lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a state for any post secondary education benefit unless a citizen or a national of the United States is eligible," end quote.

KRIS KOBACH, PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY: It's based on the principle, as articulated by members of Congress who passed it, the principle that a U.S. citizen ought not to be treated worse than an illegal alien when it comes to subsidized tuition.

TUCKER: Kobach is one of two attorneys representing the 24 students. There are three attorneys for the other side, including three attorneys arguing for the state plus attorneys from the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Immigration Law Center, the Organization for the Multicultural Education and Training Advocates.

State educators who favor the discount say the argument is simple.

PAT BOSCO, KANSAS STATE UNIVERSITY: These students, who graduated from Kansas high school, have been part of our state for a number of years, have no in-state residence status anywhere in America. Unlike other students, who are native born have the opportunity to pay in-state fees somewhere in the United States.

TUCKER: Currently, nine states offer in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCKER: Now among the lawyers supporting the state is Peter Ruse (ph), who argued successfully before the Supreme Court in 1982 that children of illegal aliens have a right to a K-12 public school education, which he won.

No ruling is expected tomorrow. Only arguments to be heard. Lou, the ruling is expected later in the month.

DOBBS: I love that reasoning, that because they don't have residence in other states, therefore they must be legal residents or at least can be looked at as legal residents.

What does Kansas do with those who have residences outside the United States? Do they also give them in-state tuition?

TUCKER: No, no, no. And the argument really comes down to, well, they're here and they have nowhere else to go, Lou.

DOBBS: The reasoning that is taking place on this issue, our immigration crisis, our border security crisis, it's utterly, utterly mad. It will be interesting to see if rationality asserts itself in Kansas. Bill Tucker, thank you.

Here's a similair article from the state of Connecticutt:

House rejects extending in-state tuition to immigrants

The Associated Press


The state House of Representatives early Thursday narrowly defeated a bill that would have offered children of illegal immigrants in-state tuition rates at public colleges.

Representatives voted 77-65 against the proposal.

Proponents said children should not be penalized for their parents' decision to come to the country illegally, and should be granted the opportunity for an affordable education.

"In every sense, these students are Connecticut residents," said Rep. Roberta Willis, D-Lakeville, who leads the higher education committee. "They have resided in Connecticut for most of their lives; they have attended and graduated from Connecticut schools." Opponents wanted to amend the bill to require that the children apply for legal citizenship before taking advantage of the cheaper in-state college tuition rate, but that amendment was defeated.

Currently, undocumented students who apply for visas or permanent residency can be subject to deportation, and Democrats said the amendment would defeat the point of the bill. Under the legislation, students would have had to have gone to a Connecticut high school for at least three years. They also would have had to file an affidavit promising to file for citizenship when they became eligible.

Many questioned why the state should extend the in-state rate to people who may never apply, or be eligible to apply, for citizenship.

"So we've now financed, for $40,000, a student to go to college who cannot work in the state. They do not have a green card, and they are not eligible to work," said Rep. Robert Heagney, R-Simsbury.

Immigrant advocacy groups have said that many of the children cannot afford the expensive, out-of-state tuition rate, while immigration reform groups say it would provide an incentive for illegal immigration. At the University of Connecticut, in-state tuition is $5,772 while out-of-state students pay $17,604. The total for room, board, tuition and student fees is $14,894 each year for in-state students, compared to $26,726 for out-of-state residents.

Rep. Felipe Reinoso, D-Bridgeport, a native of Peru, spoke of his own struggle to pay for school while waiting for citizenship. He said he sees many students in Bridgeport unable to continue their education.

"In some cases, they finish as valedictorians and salutatorians, but the American dream is over at this point because the documentation is not in order," Reinoso said.

The bill was sparked in part by the case of Majan Jean, a 19-year-old illegal immigrant from Haiti who was nearly deported last summer before federal lawmakers interceded on her behalf. She is pursuing citizenship, and a donor is financing her education at Three Rivers Community College.

"The fact is, there are anywhere from three to 10 million in the U.S. who are not documented," said Rep. Demetrios Giannaros, D-Farmington. "If we don't accept that, it's like having a young lady who's pregnant and, instead of admitting it, she's saying 'I got fat.'"

Rep. Selim Noujaim, R-Waterbury, a Lebanese immigrant, said he couldn't understand why someone wouldn't apply for citizenship.

"I cannot believe that someone would have an opportunity to become a citizen of this country, this wonderful country, this freedom we enjoy of this country, and not take advantage of it."

Joyce Hamilton, an immigrant rights advocate, was disappointed.

"I think that the legislators have lost sight of the fact that these are children," she said.

Nine states - California, Illinois, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, Washington and Kansas - have similar laws. In Kansas, lawyers for a group of parents are arguing before a federal court that the statute violates federal immigration laws.

You would be against the tuition grants I presume?

America is for Americans and that whole bit is I think where you are going with this. Right?

I thought the question was clearly stated but since you seem to be having trouble with it, let me try to dumb it down for you.

Do you think Illegal Aliens should be given reduced, in-state tuition here in the United States.

By the way I removed you from my ignore list after reading your last post in my "Do you believe in God" Thread.

I thought it was very good. Even though I don't agree with you all the time, or hardly ever, it was very well thought out. Even though you spelled God, Goid. I actually thought that was cool. Even though you were obviously typing very quickly and not editing your posts, it was still very articulate.

I thought the question was clearly stated but since you seem to be having trouble with it, let me try to dumb it down for you.

Do you think Illegal Aliens should be given reduced, in-state tuition here in the United States.


Hmmmmmmmmm....

not sure where you are going with that. I was asking your answer to your question. Not asking about what the question was.

thanks for dumbing it down though.

By the way I removed you from my ignore list after reading your last post in my "Do you believe in God" Thread.

I thought it was very good. Even though I don't agree with you all the time, or hardly ever, it was very well thought out. Even though you spelled God, Goid. I actually thought that was cool. Even though you were obviously typing very quickly and not editing your posts, it was still very articulate.

Well thank you. I appreciate the compliment.

I thought the question was clearly stated but since you seem to be having trouble with it, let me try to dumb it down for you.

Do you think Illegal Aliens should be given reduced, in-state tuition here in the United States.
I dont know Sonny, but if they qualify for a tuition then so be it.(Illegal or not)I that most Americans had a problem with the illegals that didnt want to learn the american culture or do anything to progress in the U.S. or help the economy. If these people want to go to school is because they want to be a part of the country in a good way.
Nothing takes away the fact that they are illegal but eventually with the right education they will someday be a part of hard working and educated Americans. I have a problem with illegals that come and here and do criminal activity but in my eyes if your to here to help this country in anyway you should be welcome.

I dont know Sonny, but if they qualify for a tuition then so be it.(Illegal or not)I that most Americans had a problem with the illegals that didnt want to learn the american culture or do anything to progress in the U.S. or help the economy. If these people want to go to school is because they want to be a part of the country in a good way.
Nothing takes away the fact that they are illegal but eventually with the right education they will someday be a part of hard working and educated Americans. I have a problem with illegals that come and here and do criminal activity but in my eyes if your to here to help this country in anyway you should be welcome.

My intention was not to start a race war with this thread. I think that it is great that this nation is made up of diverse groups of people. I was simply asking how people felt about Illegal aliens getting reduced, in-state tuition. I got testy with joeboxer because it seemed he was leading the discussion to the infuriating last resort of calling someone a racist for raising a valid issue. Personally I think that people who want to enter this country to work, get an education and contribute can do so. It's not like we've built 40 foot electrified walls around the country to keep foreiners out. We allow millions of peopl in from all over the world every year. There are procedures to get in legally just like in every country.

But honestly, this wasn't even the point of the thread. The point is, is it fair that an illegal alien be given a tuition break when out of stae US citizens have to pay thousands of dollars more. And in effect are we encouraging illegal immigration by granting these tuition breaks?

On the other hand I am open minded, and am certainly willing to listen to opinions that deviate from my own. The first article does a good job of stating both sides of the arguement.

I think that education should be free for as long as people want to continue it.

I say get a job, and go to school at night pay'd for by the government for as long as you want to.

Schools like Harvard and Yale, can still discriminate based on intelligence. But education is the biggest factor in making the world a better place, untill it is a public service like Water or Sanitation, then I won't be happy with anything people do.

see what people seem to leave out is that
illegal aliens cant get student loans or scholarships
so even if they only have to pay instate i dont think an illegal alien can afford college without loans os scholarships.
now imagine if they had to pay out of state tuition.

The facts are that people who are not even supposed to be in this country are getting a price break on higher education while Americans who just happen to live in a different US state (not a WHOLE DIFFERENT COUNTRY!!) have to pay more for education. This is unfair. This is bull****. I cannnot see why anyone would agree with this. Who gives a **** if illegal immigrants are poor? I dont think just because someone is poor, they deserve everything handed to them. Someone mentioned the fact that illegals cant get grants and student loans. Well, good. Im glad they cant because those things are for Americans. They would be able to get those things if they followed the law and waited in line to come into this country like legal immigrants do. Why do people break the law and come into this country illegally, then think they should be afforded all the same benefits as someone who follows the rules? I dont get it.

To put it simply, anyone can move to a state. I will use California as an example. Lets say two men move to California to go to school. One comes from Arizona. The other comes illegally from Mexico. The kid from AZ has to pay 3x more to go to school in CA than the kid who snuck in from Mexico. Neither are a CA resident. Now how the hell does that make any sense? Arent our laws supposed to be helping AMERICANS?? This **** drives me nuts... :mad:

The facts are that people who are not even supposed to be in this country are getting a price break on higher education while Americans who just happen to live in a different US state (not a WHOLE DIFFERENT COUNTRY!!) have to pay more for education. This is unfair. This is bull****. I cannnot see why anyone would agree with this. Who gives a **** if illegal immigrants are poor? I dont think just because someone is poor, they deserve everything handed to them. Someone mentioned the fact that illegals cant get grants and student loans. Well, good. Im glad they cant because those things are for Americans. They would be able to get those things if they followed the law and waited in line to come into this country like legal immigrants do. Why do people break the law and come into this country illegally, then think they should be afforded all the same benefits as someone who follows the rules? I dont get it.

To put it simply, anyone can move to a state. I will use California as an example. Lets say two men move to California to go to school. One comes from Arizona. The other comes illegally from Mexico. The kid from AZ has to pay 3x more to go to school in CA than the kid who snuck in from Mexico. Neither are a CA resident. Now how the hell does that make any sense? Arent our laws supposed to be helping AMERICANS?? This **** drives me nuts... :mad:

I have to say Ron that I know where you are coming from with this illegal immigration issue cause when my wife became a permanent resident up here we had to fill out a hell of a lot of paperwork and do a lot work getting fingerprints and criminal records and that sort of **** done. But we did what we were supposed to do and were rewarded for our efforts.

The fact is that while I might symphatize with the plight of these illegals more than you I don't like it when people just don't want to do the work to get what they want. Even if you think that the laws are complex or even unfair if you think something is worth it you should take the time to do the necessary work. I don't like lazy people and if the reason that people don't want to do things the legal way is because they're too lazy, then it's their own fault if they get caught.

The facts are that people who are not even supposed to be in this country are getting a price break on higher education while Americans who just happen to live in a different US state (not a WHOLE DIFFERENT COUNTRY!!) have to pay more for education. This is unfair. This is bull****. I cannnot see why anyone would agree with this. Who gives a **** if illegal immigrants are poor? I dont think just because someone is poor, they deserve everything handed to them. Someone mentioned the fact that illegals cant get grants and student loans. Well, good. Im glad they cant because those things are for Americans. They would be able to get those things if they followed the law and waited in line to come into this country like legal immigrants do. Why do people break the law and come into this country illegally, then think they should be afforded all the same benefits as someone who follows the rules? I dont get it.

To put it simply, anyone can move to a state. I will use California as an example. Lets say two men move to California to go to school. One comes from Arizona. The other comes illegally from Mexico. The kid from AZ has to pay 3x more to go to school in CA than the kid who snuck in from Mexico. Neither are a CA resident. Now how the hell does that make any sense? Arent our laws supposed to be helping AMERICANS?? This **** drives me nuts... :mad:


i have to say that i agree with this 100%. what i really don't understand is this.....what the hell is the point of there even being an illegal alien? i mean if i break the law repeatedly then my penalty becomes more severe. funny thing is when they come here they are breaking the law and they get to continue to do so and not only does the penalty lessen but they also get better benifits than i do. unfrigginreal.

I think that education should be free for as long as people want to continue it.

I say get a job, and go to school at night pay'd for by the government for as long as you want to.

Schools like Harvard and Yale, can still discriminate based on intelligence. But education is the biggest factor in making the world a better place, untill it is a public service like Water or Sanitation, then I won't be happy with anything people do.
There is a problem with that. Countries like Germany have free education and some people continue to go to school getting meaningless degrees (Literature, Philosophy, etc). There are people in Germany go to school and don't hold a real job until they are in their early 30s! If education is to be free, it should be for things that are in demand (Computer Science, Engineering, etc.).

I thought the question was clearly stated but since you seem to be having trouble with it, let me try to dumb it down for you.

Do you think Illegal Aliens should be given reduced, in-state tuition here in the United States.

YES they should be allowed cheaper in-state tuition, All of those kids didnt come here to study or take advantage as some people put it. They were brought here as little kids by their parents. They essentially feel like they are from here as they were raised here. They've lived their whole lives here, worked here, graduated here, etc. Its only a hindarence to the nation if those kids are not allowed to continue their career and in my opinion the real crime.

The facts are that people who are not even supposed to be in this country are getting a price break on higher education while Americans who just happen to live in a different US state (not a WHOLE DIFFERENT COUNTRY!!) have to pay more for education. This is unfair. This is bull****. I cannnot see why anyone would agree with this. Who gives a **** if illegal immigrants are poor? I dont think just because someone is poor, they deserve everything handed to them. Someone mentioned the fact that illegals cant get grants and student loans. Well, good. Im glad they cant because those things are for Americans. They would be able to get those things if they followed the law and waited in line to come into this country like legal immigrants do. Why do people break the law and come into this country illegally, then think they should be afforded all the same benefits as someone who follows the rules? I dont get it.

To put it simply, anyone can move to a state. I will use California as an example. Lets say two men move to California to go to school. One comes from Arizona. The other comes illegally from Mexico. The kid from AZ has to pay 3x more to go to school in CA than the kid who snuck in from Mexico. Neither are a CA resident. Now how the hell does that make any sense? Arent our laws supposed to be helping AMERICANS?? This **** drives me nuts... :mad:


....Yeah, it's a ****in joke!!! It's like people who commit crimes that think everyone owes them something after they commit the crime. That kind of thinking is ****in rediculous and it has nothing to do with being anti-mexican or anti anything at all. The spin on this crap is beyond belief.

The facts are that people who are not even supposed to be in this country are getting a price break on higher education while Americans who just happen to live in a different US state (not a WHOLE DIFFERENT COUNTRY!!) have to pay more for education. This is unfair. This is bull****. I cannnot see why anyone would agree with this. Who gives a **** if illegal immigrants are poor? I dont think just because someone is poor, they deserve everything handed to them. Someone mentioned the fact that illegals cant get grants and student loans. Well, good. Im glad they cant because those things are for Americans. They would be able to get those things if they followed the law and waited in line to come into this country like legal immigrants do. Why do people break the law and come into this country illegally, then think they should be afforded all the same benefits as someone who follows the rules? I dont get it.

To put it simply, anyone can move to a state. I will use California as an example. Lets say two men move to California to go to school. One comes from Arizona. The other comes illegally from Mexico. The kid from AZ has to pay 3x more to go to school in CA than the kid who snuck in from Mexico. Neither are a CA resident. Now how the hell does that make any sense? Arent our laws supposed to be helping AMERICANS?? This **** drives me nuts... :mad:

Why do you feel innocent kids should be punished for their parents' mistakes? They didnt ask to be brought here, and they wouldnt be able to find themselves anywhere else.

illigals get 100 billion into well fare
and only use 3 billion now i dont think California
is only giving them they are also giving to california.
so since they are not supposed to get the rights are they no supposed to pay the taxes????
so should they get their 100 bill
and only give you their 3 bill???

Why do you feel innocent kids should be punished for their parents' mistakes? They didnt ask to be brought here, and they wouldnt be able to find themselves anywhere else.

My argument is that people who are not citizens of this country and are here illegally should not get preferential treatment over US citizens. Thats my point. If its the fault of the parents that these kids are here illegally, than their parents should pay for their schooling.

illigals get 100 billion into well fare
and only use 3 billion now i dont think California
is only giving them they are also giving to california.
so since they are not supposed to get the rights are they no supposed to pay the taxes????
so should they get their 100 bill
and only give you their 3 bill???

It's hard for me to understand what you are saying here. but if you are trying to tell us that illegals put more into the system than they take out, your on crack.

There is a problem with that. Countries like Germany have free education and some people continue to go to school getting meaningless degrees (Literature, Philosophy, etc). There are people in Germany go to school and don't hold a real job until they are in their early 30s! If education is to be free, it should be for things that are in demand (Computer Science, Engineering, etc.).


Why is that a problem?

No degree is meaningless.

If someone can afford to stay in school untill they are in there 30's, then why not. As for me I'd be in school untill I was 50 getting meaningless degrees. I'd need a job also to pay for food and housing but if I can juggle both then why not?

It's hard for me to understand what you are saying here. but if you are trying to tell us that illegals put more into the system than they take out, your on crack.
how so???
they still pay taxes
pay ss and they dont get any back
so howdont they get money into the system???
believe me i translate for a migrant program this people
do kick alot of money into the system and from what i have seen
even if they get in-state tuition they cant afford to go to
college because they do not quialify for loans or scholarships

how so???
they still pay taxes
pay ss and they dont get any back
so howdont they get money into the system???
believe me i translate for a migrant program this people
do kick alot of money into the system and from what i have seen
even if they get in-state tuition they cant afford to go to
college because they do not quialify for loans or scholarships

I didnt say that they DO NOT contribulte any money to the system. I doubt that most are paying SS tax first of all, but like you said, some do. They do this because they are working with OTHER PEOPLES SS number's that are STOLEN. But that is beside the point.
They do pay sales tax when they buy stuff, like you and I do.

What I said is that I hope YOU were not saying that illegalls put MORE into the system than THEY TAKE OUT. Are you saying that illegals put more into the system than they take out?

I didnt say that they DO NOT contribulte any money to the system. I doubt that most are paying SS tax first of all, but like you said, some do. They do this because they are working with OTHER PEOPLES SS number's that are STOLEN. But that is beside the point.
They do pay sales tax when they buy stuff, like you and I do.

What I said is that I hope YOU were not saying that illegalls put MORE into the system than THEY TAKE OUT. Are you saying that illegals put more into the system than they take out?
as a matter of fact i am saying so.
because they do not get income tax how do they take more???
what benefits do they get???? tell me really they dont even
call the cops when somethign happens, they dont collect their #SS and even if you dont think so they do have to pay SS
i think the real problem in the US is all the people who are
actually able to work and yet thye dont and collect welfare.
i mean if the illegals get work how can the rest of the US not get a job??? are they to good for the fields???

I didnt say that they DO NOT contribulte any money to the system. I doubt that most are paying SS tax first of all, but like you said, some do. They do this because they are working with OTHER PEOPLES SS number's that are STOLEN. But that is beside the point.
They do pay sales tax when they buy stuff, like you and I do.

What I said is that I hope YOU were not saying that illegalls put MORE into the system than THEY TAKE OUT. Are you saying that illegals put more into the system than they take out?

Actually, they do put a lot more into the system then they take out. My source was Fox News (Funny how an anti-immigrant person like O'reily can let some of this stuff slip by lol)

Illegals are I.L.L.E.G.A.L.S, meaning they arent supposed to be in the first place, f@@k that, sue their ass, people have a hard time as it is for people to take short cuts around us.

I didnt say that they DO NOT contribulte any money to the system. I doubt that most are paying SS tax first of all, but like you said, some do. They do this because they are working with OTHER PEOPLES SS number's that are STOLEN. But that is beside the point.
They do pay sales tax when they buy stuff, like you and I do.

What I said is that I hope YOU were not saying that illegalls put MORE into the system than THEY TAKE OUT. Are you saying that illegals put more into the system than they take out?

Those are the realities that people get shielded from because Actually most ARE indeed paying SS tax. Shows like Bill O'Reily's like to show one side of the coin, but hardly ever bring anyone professional that can rebut the statement. And when they do (what looks like by accident) its short and brief.

Why is that a problem?

No degree is meaningless.

If someone can afford to stay in school untill they are in there 30's, then why not. As for me I'd be in school untill I was 50 getting meaningless degrees. I'd need a job also to pay for food and housing but if I can juggle both then why not?

I'm in total agreement with you here. People today are focused so much on what they can do to further their "careers" and they don't realize how much they're missing out on if they don't broaden thier horzions a bit. I mean, we all need to make cash, but if that's all that you want out of life than you're losing out on a lot.

If I could have a manual labour job that still gave me time and money to go to school and learn about other **** I'd take it in a second.

Why is that a problem?

No degree is meaningless.

If someone can afford to stay in school untill they are in there 30's, then why not. As for me I'd be in school untill I was 50 getting meaningless degrees. I'd need a job also to pay for food and housing but if I can juggle both then why not?
It's not a problem if you are paying for your own education.

It's not a problem if you are paying for your own education.

That's a narrow-minded view. It's in a state's best interests to educate its population. When the situation becomes unaffordable you have problems, but in most government these days money is lost in bloated bureaucracy, not in these types of social programs (the gov'ts just won't tell you that because they don't want to give up them and their friends' plum positions).

People these days have no idea how necessary gov't spending is to maintain the integrity of a country. They think that it's all "if you can't afford to do it, then you don't deserve to do it". That's bull****...do you want to have to pay for your own roads and policing as well? No, of course not, because those are vital services. Well, even though the business community is too dumbass and greedy to realize it, higher education that doesn't have anything to do with big business is just as important.

Why do certain people constantly confuse illegal and legal immigrants? Lets get it straight, we are talking about illegal immigrants here not all "immigrants" like some of you are trying to make it sound like. There is a big difference and you are trying to lump them all together.

I found this link for the two geniuses that think illegal immigrants contribute more to the system than they take out. Seriously guys, it's not rocket science.
http://www.fairus.org/ImmigrationIssueCenters/ImmigrationIssueCenters.cfm?ID=1208&c=15

Why do certain people constantly confuse illegal and legal immigrants? Lets get it straight, we are talking about illegal immigrants here not all "immigrants" like some of you are trying to make it sound like. There is a big difference and you are trying to lump them all together.

I found this link for the two geniuses that think illegal immigrants contribute more to the system than they take out. Seriously guys, it's not rocket science.
http://www.fairus.org/ImmigrationIssueCenters/ImmigrationIssueCenters.cfm?ID=1208&c=15
yeah look at the whole site
im sure its not biasided

yeah look at the whole site
im sure its not biasided

Yeah lol... Funny how that site says 7.4billion spent on public services for illegals in texas alone, when a government worker on Bill's oreily factor himself said it was about 2.5 billion total.

yeah look at the whole site
im sure its not biasided

So everything on the site is a big lie right?? A big conspiracy against the illegal immigrant right? Give me a break. Man, you are full of it. They didnt even perform the study. Just because they are posting the data doesnt mean they are source of it. Man, you want to talk about biased? Go look in the mirror buddy.

Yeah lol... Funny how that site says 7.4billion spent on public services for illegals in texas alone, when a government worker on Bill's oreily factor himself said it was about 2.5 billion total.

So do you believe everything said on O'Reilly's show, or just when it agrees with your agenda?

You think a current government official could actually go on a show like that and tell you how much illegals are costing this country while Bush is backing a guest worker (amnesty) plan? The person would be fired. There are certain subjects that when commented on by the government, you disregard everything you hear.
1. War On Drugs, or the harmfulness of marijuana
2. Illegal immigration

So everything on the site is a big lie right?? A big conspiracy against the illegal immigrant right? Give me a break. Man, you are full of it. They didnt even perform the study. Just because they are posting the data doesnt mean they are source of it. Man, you want to talk about biased? Go look in the mirror buddy.
hahaha this coming from you
ok now john ruiz can unify belts

So do you believe everything said on O'Reilly's show, or just when it agrees with your agenda?

You think a current government official could actually go on a show like that and tell you how much illegals are costing this country while Bush is backing a guest worker (amnesty) plan? The person would be fired. There are certain subjects that when commented on by the government, you disregard everything you hear.
1. War On Drugs, or the harmfulness of marijuana
2. Illegal immigration

So now its a big conspiracy FOR illegal immigration? LOL! Face it, if it was the way you say, The U.S. would have militarized the border already, and gone door to door throughout deporting.

So now its a big conspiracy FOR illegal immigration? LOL!

It's not a conspiracy by any means because the truth is there for all to see, it's not just some wild eyed theory. Government officials have to ultimate answer the president, so there is no way they would get permission to go on national TV to speak as a government "official" to say things that go against the administrations policy.

Whether you believe the numners on the site, or the guy on O'Reilly, I still think it's too much money.

hahaha this coming from you
ok now john ruiz can unify belts

Hey you can call me anything you want, but dont ever call me a John Ruiz fan!!!
:p

So now its a big conspiracy FOR illegal immigration? LOL! Face it, if it was the way you say, The U.S. would have militarized the border already, and gone door to door throughout deporting.

Ultimate, I have been through this with you before. You seem to be under some naive impression that the governemt does things because they are good for the citizens of this country. Sometimes it works out that way (rarely), but that's usually not what drives them to create policy and propose laws. They know that illegal immigration is hurting this country, but they keep letting people in because the big business people keep contibuting to the politicians campaigns. The big business people (agriculture, poltry industries) want cheap labor. If they have to pay people more than the bare minimum (what they pay illegals) their profits would go down. They dont want the supply of illegals cut off for that reason so they contribute and lobby so that politicians just turn the blind eye to the illegal problem.

Do you get it yet?

So now its a big conspiracy FOR illegal immigration? LOL!

It is in a way, because Bush and the Republicans know the way the wind is blowing and want to court the Mexican vote before it's too late. There are enough legal Mexicans in the country that are sympathetic to the plight of the illegals so the Bush administration does not want to crack down too hard and lose potential voters.

Ultimate, I have been through this with you before. You seem to be under some naive impression that the governemt does things because they are good for the citizens of this country. Sometimes it works out that way (rarely), but that's usually not what drives them to create policy and propose laws. They know that illegal immigration is hurting this country, but they keep letting people in because the big business people keep contibuting to the politicians campaigns. The big business people (agriculture, poltry industries) want cheap labor. If they have to pay people more than the bare minimum (what they pay illegals) their profits would go down. They dont want the supply of illegals cut off for that reason so they contribute and lobby so that politicians just turn the blind eye to the illegal problem.

Do you get it yet?

Illegals are a positive effect on the Country's economy, even by your above statement it says it. Do you get it yet?

If it wasnt all the illegals would be out already. Face it is true.... what better way of gaining votes then by kicking out a "Hinderance" on the Country's economy. They might loose some votes, but lets face it today the POPULAR vote is anti-illegals.

Like you said yourself in a previous post its not rocket science.

Illegals are a positive effect on the Country's economy, even by your above statement it says it. Do you get it yet?

If it wasnt all the illegals would be out already. Face it is true.... what better way of gaining votes then by kicking out a "Hinderance" on the Country's economy. They might loose some votes, but lets face it today the POPULAR vote is anti-illegals.

Like you said yourself in a previous post its not rocket science.

It's good for our country as a whole because it ups the profits of a few companies? Not only does it up the profits of a few companies but it undercuts the wages of the American citizen. It sounds like you care more about Mexicans than you do Americans. That's really good Ultimate. You really get it bro. I hope your not serious because I know your smarter than this.

Check this site out. Look at the cost stuff and the wages and poverty stuff.
http://www.cis.org/index.cgi

One more reason I love this state.

NEW IPSWICH, N.H. -- The police chief of this tiny whitewashed New England town has crafted his own border-control policy -- he has charged illegal immigrants from Mexico with trespassing in New Hampshire.

The novel legal strategy has made a minor celebrity of W. Garrett Chamberlain. The 36-year-old police chief hops to his feet and deposits a pile of letters on his desk, from Alaskans and Californians, Border Patrol agents and soldiers in Iraq, all applauding his initiative. Fox News commentators have called, too, seeking his views on national immigration policy.

Chamberlain, who has served as chief for three years, describes his actions as born of frustration with the federal government. His officers had discovered illegal immigrants several times, but immigration agents declined to detain them.

"I'm just saying: 'Wait a minute. We're on heightened alert and it's post-9/11, and I'm going to let an illegal immigrant who I don't know from Adam just walk away?' " Chamberlain said. "That's ridiculous. If I find you are in my country illegally, I'm not going to worry about political correctness. I will detain you."

So another shot is fired in the often-testy debate over U.S. immigration policies and border security, a battle fraught with political and ethnic anxieties. Already, another police chief, Richard E. Gendron in nearby Hudson, N.H., has followed suit. A few days ago, Gendron brought trespassing charges against two illegal immigrants from Mexico after his officers stopped a van with a broken headlight. Several police chiefs in New Hampshire have suggested that they might pursue such tactics in the future.

For now, however, their eyes are trained on New Ipswich, a town of 4,200 people set in green hills just north of the Massachusetts border. The Mexican immigrant, Jose Mora Ramirez, faces trial on the trespassing charge in July. The two Mexicans arrested in Hudson will be tried later that month.

The Mexican consulate has hired an attorney for Ramirez, fearing that a court may uphold the trespassing charges and so set a national precedent.

"The Mexican government was understandably worried that this could become the charge du jour across the country," said Claire Ebel, executive director of the New Hampshire American Civil Liberties Union, which helped find the lawyer for Ramirez. "They worry about vigilante police chiefs who will round up people based on the color of their skin."

New Hampshire is 96 percent white but has seen a swell of immigration from south of the border in recent years. The Latino population, in particular, has grown in Manchester and Nashua. These two cities have at least 20,000 Latinos, of Uruguayan, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Mexican and Central American descent, and there are now two Latino members of the 424-member state House of Representatives.

"The $64,000 question is why these police chiefs are doing this," said state Rep. Hector M. Velez (D), who was born in Pennsylvania and served in Operation Desert Storm before moving to Manchester, about 20 miles northeast of New Ipswich. "They talk terrorism, but none of these guys were looking for anything except hard work. You ask me, some people are afraid of the unknown."

The two police chiefs insist that racial and ethnic considerations played no role in their calculations. (The populations of New Ipswich and Hudson are 98.6 and 96.3 percent white, respectively.) They note that their officers made the arrests during routine traffic stops at night.

"Look, if you came here legally, fine," Chamberlain said. "I greet you with open arms."

He and Gendron reserve much of their annoyance for the federal government, which they say spends billions of dollars on homeland security even as the southern and northern borders remain sieves. (U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, estimates that 8 million illegal immigrants live in the United States; about 465,000 are fleeing deportation orders.) "I just find it hard to believe that we spend billions of dollars on high-tech security stuff and then we let 8 million people come across our border illegally and say nothing," Gendron said. "My son is with the Army in Iraq, and he says the biggest challenge is to tighten the border. Why is it any different here?"

Chamberlain was nudged into action in the summer of 2004, when he stopped a van for speeding along New Ipswich's short main drag. He found 10 Ecuadoran men inside, all of whom readily admitted they lacked legal papers. Chamberlain placed a phone call to ICE

"The feds were, like, 'Whatever. Just give them a ticket and let them go,' " Chamberlain said. "I was shocked."

After that, the chief sat down with a local prosecutor and tried to find a legal foothold. They settled on New Hampshire's trespassing law, which states: "A person is guilty of criminal trespass if, knowing he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place." They planned to demand that illegal immigrants report to an immigration office within 72 hours of pleading guilty.

New Ipswich officials checked with the state attorney general, who gave a modified thumbs up. "It's a novel interpretation," Assistant Attorney General Robert Carey said. But he added: "We weren't aware of any New Hampshire case that would preclude that prosecution."

The New Hampshire ACLU takes a dimmer view.

"This is a preposterous interpretation of a state law intended to apply to private property," said Ebel of the state ACLU. "You have to turn your mental clock back 100 years to believe that a police chief has the right to set federal policy."

Manny Van Pelt, a spokesman for the federal immigration service, declined to comment on the legal strategy. He noted that most police departments choose to tap into the federal government's criminal database and consult with ICE agents on arrests. "The reality is that the immigration system was never set up to arrest every single illegal immigrant," Van Pelt said. "You'd have to build prisons from the West Coast to the East Coast to do that."

New Hampshire has come late to wrestling with immigration. While French Canadians once poured in to work in lumber and textile mills, the state's modern growth has been fed predominantly by white residents moving north from Massachusetts. They have often settled in towns where historically much stock was placed on fitting in.

"One has to recognize that a lot of people coming from Massachusetts are to some extent trying to leave behind the issues of immigration and ethnicity," said Prof. David H. Watters, director of the Center for New England Culture at the University of New Hampshire. "There is also an old tradition in New Hampshire of 'warning' people who were not born there out of towns. That sensibility still survives."

Interviews with a dozen residents of the two towns found nothing but support for the chief. "The poor chief is just doing his job," Diane Slyman said as she sipped coffee in a New Ipswich bagel shop. "We want to live in a small town where we feel safe."

Gendron has heard much the same at his end. "I've got pretty close to 80 e-mails, and only one was negative," he said. "And that person was concerned that if illegal immigration slowed down, the price of lettuce might go up."

I just love NH :D

HUDSON, N.H. --Police continue to arrest illegal immigrants on trespassing charges, despite pending legal challenges to the practice

In the latest case, Hudson police pulled over Bernarda Gallego, 32, of Nashua, on Thursday night. She initially was charged with driving with a suspended license, but when officers learned that she was not a legal United States resident, they charged her with trespassing as well.

The arrest of Gallego, who originally is from Colombia, marks the fifth time in two months that police in southern New Hampshire have charged illegal immigrants with trespassing.

New Ipswich Police Chief Garrett Chamberlain was the first to use state law in an attempt to enforce a potential federal immigration violation when he charged Jorge Mora Ramirez, a 21-year-old Mexican, with trespassing in April.

Hudson police since have used the same tactic four times, charging three men and now one woman who couldn't prove they were in the country legally.

Hudson police Chief Richard Gendron says arresting illegal aliens is an important part of national security, but the practice has been a lightning rod for how to deal with illegal immigration on a national level. Last month about 35 people showed up at the New Ipswich and Hudson police stations to protest the arrests.

In May, Sergio Ruiz-Robles, 21, and Margarito Jaramillo Escobar, 23, both undocumented Mexican immigrants living in Nashua, pleaded innocent in Nashua District Court to criminal trespassing in Hudson.

Hudson Police stopped the men for having defective equipment on their car.

The men's lawyers said they plan to challenge the charges on constitutional grounds. In a motion to dismiss, their attorney argued the federal government is responsible for regulating immigration.

A court hearing is scheduled for July 22.

Luiz De Amorim, 42, a Brazilian immigrant living in Hudson, also was cited last month for criminal trespassing and for driving without a valid license after a traffic stop.

De Amorim was unable to produce a valid driver's license at the time. He had a Brazilian driver's license and told the officer that he was not in the country legally, police said.

Gallego is scheduled to be arraigned on June 23 in Nashua District Court.

I just love NH :D

HUDSON, N.H. --Police continue to arrest illegal immigrants on trespassing charges, despite pending legal challenges to the practice

In the latest case, Hudson police pulled over Bernarda Gallego, 32, of Nashua, on Thursday night. She initially was charged with driving with a suspended license, but when officers learned that she was not a legal United States resident, they charged her with trespassing as well.

The arrest of Gallego, who originally is from Colombia, marks the fifth time in two months that police in southern New Hampshire have charged illegal immigrants with trespassing.

New Ipswich Police Chief Garrett Chamberlain was the first to use state law in an attempt to enforce a potential federal immigration violation when he charged Jorge Mora Ramirez, a 21-year-old Mexican, with trespassing in April.

Hudson police since have used the same tactic four times, charging three men and now one woman who couldn't prove they were in the country legally.

Hudson police Chief Richard Gendron says arresting illegal aliens is an important part of national security, but the practice has been a lightning rod for how to deal with illegal immigration on a national level. Last month about 35 people showed up at the New Ipswich and Hudson police stations to protest the arrests.

In May, Sergio Ruiz-Robles, 21, and Margarito Jaramillo Escobar, 23, both undocumented Mexican immigrants living in Nashua, pleaded innocent in Nashua District Court to criminal trespassing in Hudson.

Hudson Police stopped the men for having defective equipment on their car.

The men's lawyers said they plan to challenge the charges on constitutional grounds. In a motion to dismiss, their attorney argued the federal government is responsible for regulating immigration.

A court hearing is scheduled for July 22.

Luiz De Amorim, 42, a Brazilian immigrant living in Hudson, also was cited last month for criminal trespassing and for driving without a valid license after a traffic stop.

De Amorim was unable to produce a valid driver's license at the time. He had a Brazilian driver's license and told the officer that he was not in the country legally, police said.

Gallego is scheduled to be arraigned on June 23 in Nashua District Court.


Good job NH. I wish the police in LA and SD, or all of Southern California for that matter, had the balls to do something like this. If something like this was done down here, the brown berret LA Raza members would be screaming racist so fast your head would spin. There's just something about people who arent racist being afraid of being called racist by real racists that makes me chuckle.

Anyways, good work NH. Now it's time to crack down on the employers of these people and charge them with a crime.
Man, I wish the cops down here would grow a pair... :mad:

Good job NH. I wish the police in LA and SD, or all of Southern California for that matter, had the balls to do something like this. If something like this was done down here, the brown berret LA Raza members would be screaming racist so fast your head would spin. There's just something about people who arent racist being afraid of being called racist by real racists that makes me chuckle.

Anyways, good work NH. Now it's time to crack down on the employers of these people and charge them with a crime.
Man, I wish the cops down here would grow a pair... :mad:

Funny you should say that. There was a discussion on Fox News this morning in which a Representative from NH was saying that they were planning on cracking down on the employers of illegals.

What gets me is the fact that the mexican consulate (read Mexican goverment) is aiding and abetting this illegal activity? I mean wtf? They could at least act as if they were trying to stem the flow of illegals and punish those who are caught.

Funny you should say that. There was a discussion on Fox News this morning in which a Representative from NH was saying that they were planning on cracking down on the employers of illegals.

What gets me is the fact that the mexican consulate (read Mexican goverment) is aiding and abetting this illegal activity? I mean wtf? They could at least act as if they were trying to stem the flow of illegals and punish those who are caught.

I know. And the US government knows what they are up to (trying to dump thier poor on us) and they do nothing about it. The only thing we seem to do is give Mexico more money and shift our policy in way to benefit Mexico even more. Mexico wont even extradite KILLERS to us in the US. Bush is a ****ing moronic *******. The Democrats arent any better on this isuue. No politician gives a **** about our country being invaded from the south while 70% of the American people think it's a problem. Political pandering peices of ****, every last one of them..Drives me nuts...