OK... I'll do a P4P list on exactly WHO I think will WIN if WEIGHT wasn't a factor RIGHT NOW!!!... NOT what they have acheived in their career!

THIS IS SURPOSED TO BE WHAT P4P IS ALL ABOUT!!!

For example there's no way in the World a 40yr old Hopkins would be able to keep a 26yr old Pacquiao off him at the same weight!... Hence the meaning of P4P!...

1. Barrera - He's got it all, and has proved it against the elite!

2. Wright - I've said for a long time this boy can out-box anyone! This is nothing to do with his recent victory!

3. Morales - Has mixed in the top class forever, and is still on top of his game!

4. Cotto - Call me crazy but this guy is SOOOO STRONG and hit's like a kick for a mule! He's the best 140lbr and the future of boxing!

5. Pacquiao - He maybe a little one dimensional, but "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"... He's showed his effectiveness against the best!

6. Mayweather - He maybe a little feather fisted, but he's got the skills to move and out-box almost all!

7. Tsyzu - With THAT MUCH POWER IN EITHER HAND! You can't dissmiss this guy, Not only that, he's an excellent boxer to boot!!!

8. Judah - Is an excellent boxer with good power in either hand, I think he's learnt a LOT for the Tszyu defeat!

9. Calzaghe - This isn't because I come from the UK, but He's 39-0 31ko's and has ruled the division since 1997! He looks to take your head off!

10. Hopkins - below Calzaghe because I think Calzaghe would beat him, but this is a sly old fox who will run and hit!


This is my P4P list!... I know it's very different from the usual **** you see. But I think P4P is surposed to be about "THEE BEST FIGHTER RIGHT NOW IF WEIGHT WASN'T A FACTOR"... Well this is what I think.

There's no marketing hype or what they've done in their careers before hand in there... just total honesty!

:)

What do you guy's think?... It's different I KNOW!. ... LOL!...

sorry mate, but you are so far off...........i won't even bother pointing how far off you are.

yeah that list is just .....damn

yeah that list is just .....damn
Yeah but like explained... It's not about what fighters have achieved in their careers. It's about who would win right now if weight wasn't a factor P4P.

For example Bernard may have made 20 defences of his IBF belt etc which is a great achievment, but at the same weight, there's no way that him at 40yrs of age is gonna be able to keep a young fired up Pacquiao off him. (It may have worked against a tired Eastman... But not against a ruthless young Pacquiao).

Try to block out all the marketing hype and career achievements, and just concentrate on Who's the BEST right now!

Yeah but like explained... It's not about what fighters have achieved in their careers. It's about who would win right now if weight wasn't a factor P4P.

For example Bernard may have made 20 defences of his IBF belt etc which is a great achievment, but at the same weight, there's no way that him at 40yrs of age is gonna be able to keep a young fired up Pacquiao off him. (It may have worked against a tired Eastman... But not against a ruthless young Pacquiao).

Try to block out all the marketing hype and career achievements, and just concentrate on Who's the BEST right now!
mate. what you are saying doesn't make sense......how are youto know who is the best right now??..this is by their recent fight results and against the opposition they have fought..................

you said "For example there's no way in the World a 40yr old Hopkins would be able to keep a 26yr old Pacquiao off him at the same weight!... Hence the meaning of P4P!..."

but haven't you ever wondered why heavyweights don't punch like lightweights??????? c'mon, there must be a reason??!!??

OK... I'll do a P4P list on exactly WHO I think will WIN if WEIGHT wasn't a factor RIGHT NOW!!!... NOT what they have acheived in their career!

THIS IS SURPOSED TO BE WHAT P4P IS ALL ABOUT!!!

For example there's no way in the World a 40yr old Hopkins would be able to keep a 26yr old Pacquiao off him at the same weight!... Hence the meaning of P4P!...

1. Barrera - He's got it all, and has proved it against the elite!

2. Wright - I've said for a long time this boy can out-box anyone! This is nothing to do with his recent victory!

3. Morales - Has mixed in the top class forever, and is still on top of his game!

4. Cotto - Call me crazy but this guy is SOOOO STRONG and hit's like a kick for a mule! He's the best 140lbr and the future of boxing!

5. Pacquiao - He maybe a little one dimensional, but "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"... He's showed his effectiveness against the best!

6. Mayweather - He maybe a little feather fisted, but he's got the skills to move and out-box almost all!

7. Tsyzu - With THAT MUCH POWER IN EITHER HAND! You can't dissmiss this guy, Not only that, he's an excellent boxer to boot!!!

8. Judah - Is an excellent boxer with good power in either hand, I think he's learnt a LOT for the Tszyu defeat!

9. Calzaghe - This isn't because I come from the UK, but He's 39-0 31ko's and has ruled the division since 1997! He looks to take your head off!

10. Hopkins - below Calzaghe because I think Calzaghe would beat him, but this is a sly old fox who will run and hit!


This is my P4P list!... I know it's very different from the usual **** you see. But I think P4P is surposed to be about "THEE BEST FIGHTER RIGHT NOW IF WEIGHT WASN'T A FACTOR"... Well this is what I think.

There's no marketing hype or what they've done in their careers before hand in there... just total honesty!

:)

What do you guy's think?... It's different I KNOW!. ... LOL!...


That list is possibly the worst P4P list I have ever seen, P4P.

That list is possibly the worst P4P list I have ever seen, P4P.
I think the best way to look at this list (with the exception of Cotto) is too look at the class level of opposition these fighters have faced, and you'll notice that it get's lower and lower the further down the list you go.

This is a TRUE P4P list based on Who's the BEST right now!

There is definatly a logic behind this picking... You just have to block out the marketing hype, media bulls**t and you can see it!

I think the best way to look at this list (with the exception of Cotto) is too look at the class level of opposition these fighters have faced, and you'll notice that it get's lower and lower the further down the list you go.

This is a TRUE P4P list based on Who's the BEST right now!

There is definatly a logic behind this picking... You just have to block out the marketing hype, media bulls**t and you can see it!

Sorry mate. That list is really, really bad.

Sorry mate. That list is really, really bad.
Well think about it this way instead then... It's very easy for top fighters to look awesome, powerfull, slick, when they're fighting the Gonzalez's/Glen Kelly's/Clinton Woods of the boxing World. But it's a very different story when they step up in class.

It's not easy to knock guy's like Pacquiao/Barrera/In Jin Chi/Alaya etc etc etc out!... These are WORLD class fighters! From all corners of the World!

Well think about it this way instead then... It's very easy for top fighters to look awesome, powerfull, slick, when they're fighting the Gonzalez's/Glen Kelly's/Clinton Woods of the boxing World.

Coming from a guy who thinks Hatton is going to win...

Coming from a guy who thinks Hatton is going to win...
I never said that I think Hatton will win... I think the fight is 57%-43% in Kostya Tszyu's favour.

But I do think there's a big chance that Hatton could pull off an upset!

well if put every fighter at one weight class and still caring their power and speed B-Hop would demolish Pacman. Pacman is not a smart fighter B-hop is.

I must have been looking at your avatar.

Martin, Ive only been posting about a month but reading about a year. ALthough you have insightful things to say, this is the worse. Mainly b/c of the logic you are using to do it. Dont get me wrong, I understand WHY you say what you say, but it is just wrong. You cant take the best the way youre taking it.

Thats like saying what the best automobile, a Maybach or a Ferrari. To different classes altogether. I know you want to compare them...The bottom line is: you cant!!

OK... I'll do a P4P list on exactly WHO I think will WIN if WEIGHT wasn't a factor RIGHT NOW!!!... NOT what they have acheived in their career!

THIS IS SURPOSED TO BE WHAT P4P IS ALL ABOUT!!!

For example there's no way in the World a 40yr old Hopkins would be able to keep a 26yr old Pacquiao off him at the same weight!... Hence the meaning of P4P!...

1. Barrera - He's got it all, and has proved it against the elite!

2. Wright - I've said for a long time this boy can out-box anyone! This is nothing to do with his recent victory!

3. Morales - Has mixed in the top class forever, and is still on top of his game!

4. Cotto - Call me crazy but this guy is SOOOO STRONG and hit's like a kick for a mule! He's the best 140lbr and the future of boxing!

5. Pacquiao - He maybe a little one dimensional, but "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"... He's showed his effectiveness against the best!

6. Mayweather - He maybe a little feather fisted, but he's got the skills to move and out-box almost all!

7. Tsyzu - With THAT MUCH POWER IN EITHER HAND! You can't dissmiss this guy, Not only that, he's an excellent boxer to boot!!!

8. Judah - Is an excellent boxer with good power in either hand, I think he's learnt a LOT for the Tszyu defeat!

9. Calzaghe - This isn't because I come from the UK, but He's 39-0 31ko's and has ruled the division since 1997! He looks to take your head off!

10. Hopkins - below Calzaghe because I think Calzaghe would beat him, but this is a sly old fox who will run and hit!


This is my P4P list!... I know it's very different from the usual **** you see. But I think P4P is surposed to be about "THEE BEST FIGHTER RIGHT NOW IF WEIGHT WASN'T A FACTOR"... Well this is what I think.

There's no marketing hype or what they've done in their careers before hand in there... just total honesty!

:)

What do you guy's think?... It's different I KNOW!. ... LOL!...
So you basically saying that Cotto would whip Tszyu, and Kostya is a paper champ. Based on your logic on who is gonna beat who.
Interesting logic. Very interesting. Do they have funny houses there at Limey land. because you seriously need to go to one of them. No offense intended.

Martin, Ive only been posting about a month but reading about a year. ALthough you have insightful things to say, this is the worse. Mainly b/c of the logic you are using to do it. Dont get me wrong, I understand WHY you say what you say, but it is just wrong. You cant take the best the way youre taking it.

Thats like saying what the best automobile, a Maybach or a Ferrari. To different classes altogether. I know you want to compare them...The bottom line is: you cant!!
I just reckon the best way to rate fighters is by fact, not opinion. Looking at who they've fought, and how they did against them. :dunno: Not saying, "well I think that they would win that fight if it did ever happen :rolleyes:".

If Barrera had been mixing in the level of competetion that for example: Bernard has in his career, then Barrera would be an unbeaten fighter now... But Barrera hasn't... He's taken on some GIGANTIC challenges and maybe lost a couple along the way, :dunno: that doesn't matter to me... The fact that he's stepped up and taken them on is why I hold him in such high regard.

So you basically saying that Cotto would whip Tszyu, and Kostya is a paper champ. Based on your logic on who is gonna beat who.
Interesting logic. Very interesting. Do they have funny houses there at Limey land. because you seriously need to go to one of them. No offense intended.
As I stated above... I think Miguel Cotto is the best 140lb fighter in the World today. (And this is coming from a Ricky Hatton).

I never have, and would NEVER say that Kostya Tszyu is just a paper champ!

He's in my top 10 P4P list!!! But "YES" ... I have rated Cotto above him, and by doing that, I think that Cotto would beat him.

If Barrera had been mixing in the level of competetion that for example: Bernard has in his career, then Barrera would be an unbeaten fighter now... But Barrera hasn't... He's taken on some GIGANTIC challenges and maybe lost a couple along the way, :dunno: that doesn't matter to me... The fact that he's stepped up and taken them on is why I hold him in such high regard.

Hopkins fought Roy Jones for Cliff's sake.

As I stated above... I think Miguel Cotto is the best 140lb fighter in the World today. (And this is coming from a Ricky Hatton).

I never have, and would NEVER say that Kostya Tszyu is just a paper champ!

He's in my top 10 P4P list!!! But "YES" ... I have rated Cotto above him, and by doing that, I think that Cotto would beat him.
The champ(undisputed champ, which btw is Kostya) is the best fighter in his division, and by saying that Cotto is the best super lightweight, you are saying that he is the champ and tszyu does now rightfully own his championship status. That is basically calling somebody a paper champ.

Hopkins fought Roy Jones for Cliff's sake.
Yeah... And Hopkins got out-boxed!

The champ(undisputed champ, which btw is Kostya) is the best fighter in his division, and by saying that Cotto is the best super lightweight, you are saying that he is the champ and tszyu does now rightfully own his championship status. That is basically calling somebody a paper champ.
I Ain't saying that Miguel Cotto is the Champion... What I'm saying is, I think that Miguel Cotto would beat the champion! If he fought him.

Yeah... And Hopkins got out-boxed!

So you think Barerra would beat prime RJJ pound for pound?? :rolleyes:

Hopkins fought Roy Jones for Cliff's sake.

Yeah... And Hopkins got out-boxed!

Yeah I just got it fella... LOL!... :o ... That does contradict what I was saying about Barrera.

OK take away RJJ and which other great MIDDLEWEIGHTS would you say were on the resume? (p.s... Don't mention De La Hoya/Trinidad Coz' they ain't middleweights).

:dunno:

So you think Barerra would beat prime RJJ pound for pound?? :rolleyes:
I dunno... That's a tough one. They are both excellent fighters.

Perhaps the fight would end up like the Barrera vs Hamed fight :dunno:

WTF...Hopkins may be a running ***** but he shouldn't be last on that list. And Pac overrated and loses against the only great fighter he faces. And Wright may shut out Tito but thats because Tito sucks and so Wright surely doesn't deserve to be #2 when he hasnt accomplished that much yet. And where the hell is Ruiz, he 5-1 in hw division, best record there, so obviously ranked P4P.

1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Kostya Tszyu
3. Winky Wright
4. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
5. Diego Corrales
6. Marco Antonio Barrera
7. Erik Morales
8. Manny Pacquiao
9. Glen Johnson
10. Zab Judah

OK... I'll do a P4P list on exactly WHO I think will WIN if WEIGHT wasn't a factor RIGHT NOW!!!... NOT what they have acheived in their career!

THIS IS SURPOSED TO BE WHAT P4P IS ALL ABOUT!!!

For example there's no way in the World a 40yr old Hopkins would be able to keep a 26yr old Pacquiao off him at the same weight!... Hence the meaning of P4P!...

1. Barrera - He's got it all, and has proved it against the elite!

2. Wright - I've said for a long time this boy can out-box anyone! This is nothing to do with his recent victory!

3. Morales - Has mixed in the top class forever, and is still on top of his game!

4. Cotto - Call me crazy but this guy is SOOOO STRONG and hit's like a kick for a mule! He's the best 140lbr and the future of boxing!

5. Pacquiao - He maybe a little one dimensional, but "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"... He's showed his effectiveness against the best!

6. Mayweather - He maybe a little feather fisted, but he's got the skills to move and out-box almost all!

7. Tsyzu - With THAT MUCH POWER IN EITHER HAND! You can't dissmiss this guy, Not only that, he's an excellent boxer to boot!!!

8. Judah - Is an excellent boxer with good power in either hand, I think he's learnt a LOT for the Tszyu defeat!

9. Calzaghe - This isn't because I come from the UK, but He's 39-0 31ko's and has ruled the division since 1997! He looks to take your head off!

10. Hopkins - below Calzaghe because I think Calzaghe would beat him, but this is a sly old fox who will run and hit!


This is my P4P list!... I know it's very different from the usual **** you see. But I think P4P is surposed to be about "THEE BEST FIGHTER RIGHT NOW IF WEIGHT WASN'T A FACTOR"... Well this is what I think.

There's no marketing hype or what they've done in their careers before hand in there... just total honesty!

:)

What do you guy's think?... It's different I KNOW!. ... LOL!...

Opinions differ. I like the fact you acknowledge Barrera as a top 5 fighter....which he is. Definitely not #1 though. The rest of your list I wont argue with...except for Calzaghe's presence. However you see it...is your thing. I just would never add Joe to the top 10, that is ridiculous.

If weight wasn't a factor Floyd Mayweather Jr. could beat Bernard Hopkins.

4. Cotto - Call me crazy but this guy is SOOOO STRONG and hit's like a kick for a mule! He's the best 140lbr and the future of boxing!

ok, you're crazy!

This is my P4P list! Not based on the usual boo**** Hopkins!

1. Mayweather
2. Morales
3. Winky
4. Tszyu
5. B-Hop

If weight wasn't a factor Floyd Mayweather Jr. could beat Bernard Hopkins.
along with any other fighter from any weight division in any era...Floyd has more natural talent than any fighter since a kid named Sugar Ray came onto the scene in '76

miguel cotto got rocked and did the "thriller" dance from a guy who weighed 25 pounds lighter than him

Opinions differ. I like the fact you acknowledge Barrera as a top 5 fighter....which he is. Definitely not #1 though. The rest of your list I wont argue with...except for Calzaghe's presence. However you see it...is your thing. I just would never add Joe to the top 10, that is ridiculous.
I reckon, if Joe Calzaghe was American... He'd be in everyones P4P list now!

That's the only reason he isn't.

along with any other fighter from any weight division in any era...Floyd has more natural talent than any fighter since a kid named Sugar Ray came onto the scene in '76

You may be right...some of the time I wish weight wasn't a factor.

I reckon, if Joe Calzaghe was American... He'd be in everyones P4P list now!

That's the only reason he isn't.

You might be right about that. Because fighting in America...shows that you "fight in America" LOL. Why do you think there is so much stigma about European fighters and the competition they have faced.

There are many people over here in the states that believe the Klitschko's are the best heavyweights....and they are from Europe. Only matter is....they have fought and beat American heavyweights who would destroy any European Heavyweight around.

Lamon Brewster could beat any heavyweight from Europe with the exception of the Klitschko Brothers.

Lacy can beat any Supermiddle from Europe, as well as any Supermiddle for that matter.

You might be right about that. Because fighting in America...shows that you "fight in America" LOL. Why do you think there is so much stigma about European fighters and the competition they have faced.

There are many people over here in the states that believe the Klitschko's are the best heavyweights....and they are from Europe. Only matter is....they have fought and beat American heavyweights who would destroy any European Heavyweight around.

Lamon Brewster could beat any heavyweight from Europe with the exception of the Klitschko Brothers.

Lacy can beat any Supermiddle from Europe, as well as any Supermiddle for that matter.
So if Joe Calzaghe had exactly the same career that he's got now, only difference - Every single fight he'd ever had was fought on U.S soil, you'd have him in your P4P list?

So if Joe Calzaghe had exactly the same career that he's got now, only difference - Every single fight he'd ever had was fought on U.S soil, you'd have him in your P4P list?

LOL. I think that doo run/waxe is a retard. I dunno.


Honestly though, Hopkins shoulnt be #1!

LOL. I think that doo run/waxe is a retard. I dunno.


Honestly though, Hopkins shoulnt be #1!

I think you are the most irredeemable tard on this forum, who includes the word "doo" a tad too often. You newbie ****tard.

I think you are the most irredeemable tard on this forum, who includes the word "doo" a tad too often. You newbie ****tard.

wut's wit the hostility homie? I speakin it as it is!

Yea, I'm a "nubie". Wow,Is this the part where I get pissed off?

Phockin losas everywhere here in boxingscene I see.

Sorry mate. That list is really, really bad.
I'm with you...how could you put any of the top five over tszyu and mayweather, and no mention of castillo, corrales, marquez, toney, hopkins....I'm sorry but this P4P list sucks...

1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Kostya Tszyu
3. Winky Wright
4. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
5. Diego Corrales
6. Marco Antonio Barrera
7. Erik Morales
8. Manny Pacquiao
9. Glen Johnson
10. Zab Judah

Very good list if not for Johnson...

who has Calzaghe faced??

What are you?... A politician???... LOL!.. Are you gonna answer the question or just avoid it?

Originally Posted by martinwbc
So if Joe Calzaghe had exactly the same career that he's got now, only difference - Every single fight he'd ever had was fought on U.S soil, you'd have him in your P4P list?

What are you?... A politician???... LOL!.. Are you gonna answer the question or just avoid it?

Originally Posted by martinwbc
So if Joe Calzaghe had exactly the same career that he's got now, only difference - Every single fight he'd ever had was fought on U.S soil, you'd have him in your P4P list?

I was rudely interrupted by your sidekick.

And the answer to your biased question is yes.

Calzaghe really needs to fight someone recognized by more than just the intense fight fan. Jeff Lacy, Antonio Tarver, Glen Johnson, Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins - he's always "linked" to them, but he's never got in the ring with them.

Very good list if not for Johnson...
Johnson beat Jones and Tarver in consecutive fights. I think that puts him in the Top 10.

last I checked, the P4P rankin is opinion based, so I don't see why we got the "why you have him at #3?", "who he faced?", He shoulda be #1"
Anywho, I think BHop shoulnt be #1. B Hop did deserve the numba 1 spot bepho, but now I think he is not the keepa of that spot no mo. He's been takin easy challenges for a while. If he wins a megafight wit suomne then Ima put him numba 1. Until then, I think the likes of Morales and Mayweather are ahead of him.

I was rudely interrupted by your sidekick.

And the answer to your biased question is yes.
Thank you... That just about sums it up!

You see this is the problem with some of you Yanks (not all of you, some are quite sensible).

What difference does it make where the ring is? - it's the same fighters, and when the 1st bell rings, the fighters won't know what's going on outside the ring.

The only difference I can think of, is that Americans would have more access to the fights on TV.

Actually... I can't even be bothered to start to tell you how wrong, arrogant, iggnorant, and insuler your answer is.

The answer was: "YES"...

The question was:

Originally Posted by martinwbc
So if Joe Calzaghe had exactly the same career that he's got now, only difference - Every single fight he'd ever had was fought on U.S soil, you'd have him in your P4P list?

Whoever else reads this, make of it what you will. :dunno:

Thank you... That just about sums it up!

You see this is the problem with some of you Yanks (not all of you, some are quite sensible).

What difference does it make where the ring is? - it's the same fighters, and when the 1st bell rings, the fighters won't know what's going on outside the ring.

The only difference I can think of, is that Americans would have more access to the fights on TV.

Actually... I can't even be bothered to start to tell you how wrong, arrogant, iggnorant, and insuler your answer is.

The answer was: "YES"...

The question was:

Originally Posted by martinwbc
So if Joe Calzaghe had exactly the same career that he's got now, only difference - Every single fight he'd ever had was fought on U.S soil, you'd have him in your P4P list?

Whoever else reads this, make of it what you will. :dunno:

If I had a dollar for everyone who watches Calzaghe fight, I would be short a few dollars. Simple as that.

i think run/axe doesn't read carefully, that or he tryin to act a foo!

he said "yes"? wow, very intelligent answer fo a doo who got a diploma. LOL

that or he tryin to act a foo!


For once you have said something right. And I find most of what I have been saying hilarious; and in an asinine attempt to get a rise out of a european boxing fan.

If I had a dollar for everyone who watches Calzaghe fight, I would be short a few dollars. Simple as that.
Look fella, I ain't looking for an argument... But you have to learn that there's a whole wide World out there.

The World doesn't begin and end on the shores of the United States.

Look fella, I ain't looking for an argument... But you have to learn that there's a whole wide World out there.

The World doesn't begin and end on the shore of the United States.


exactly! I mean, I use Pac as an example. Pac was unknown 6 years ago. Nobody truly took Philipines to b releasin great boxers. Then Pac came outa the scene and now many people expect to see the next Pacman................which by the way is in the developments right now.


1.Ray "Boom Boom" Bautista
2.Randy Suico
3.Z Gorres
4.Mayol

Same thing fo Calzaghe. Don't be sayin he sux, cuz I bet he beat US fighters when chance is given too.

Manny P I gave you good karma because Runw/girls ***** hurts right now.

I normally don't diss foos like run/axe but it would be appear he acts stoopid and retarded pho kicks. People got their own stuff I guess. :cool:

Manny P I gave you good karma because Runw/girls ***** hurts right now.

yeah. sure funboy. You and the manny troll can go play outside now...because I said so.

I don't agree with the whole list but I honestly see what you're saying. I think.

I don't agree with the whole list but I honestly see what you're saying. I think.
Thank you... A lot of people don't understand my list and I totally understand why!

I'm baseing this list more on fact than opinion... I tried to base it on the level of competition faced by the best fighters in the World today.

If there's a fighter out there that's facing TOP competition everytime like Morales - AND WINNING!!! Surely he's gotta be ahead of guy's like Bernard/Mayweather who go for very long spells not facing top competition. :dunno: