http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5916/vitalipb7.jpg

Probably one of the most common threads on this forum of late are threads about Vitali Klitschko. Nothing wrong with that – after all, we’re talking about the man widely regarded as the premier fighter in what is historically boxing’s most favoured division. Never mind that the division is currently at its least respected since the Holmes era (albeit with a title fragmented four ways and none of them belonging to a future top ten shortlister).

Yet when I read posts about the Ukranian I find myself both thinking that he’s nowhere near as good as he’s made out to be, and that he’s far better than it’s claimed... both at the same time. This doesn’t make sense.

Part of the fun of being a spectator of the sport is predicting who will win a given bout. I’ve done it, we’ve all done it. Sometimes you get it right, often you get it wrong, it’s all just part of the enjoyment of it all. Yet the only time I’ve actually been embarrassed by a pick was suggesting that Danny Williams had a chance at dethroning Vitali back in December of last year. I’ve seen at least a dozen of Williams’s fights and know the form... perennial underachiever, can look a million dollars on any given night, can look like garbage on another. Then there’s that wildly unpredictable psyche. Yet my pick wasn’t actually inspired by Williams at all – I was basing it on the fact that Vitali is such an untested quantity.

His prior fight had been against Corrie Sanders, during which time he had looked tentative, vulnerable, and paid the price of a lack of caution by having his legs buckled in the first and then conducting an undignified, scrambling retreat. Only when Klitschko had made doubly – make that triply – sure that Sanders no longer posed any threat did he really start to throw anything substantial in his direction.

For a man who made his current reputation on losing to a ludicrously out of condition Lennox Lewis, his moment has arguably already been and gone. Though promotional difficulties have necessitated who he can fight, his three post-Lewis opponents have all been, with the possible exception of Williams, as out of condition as Lewis, only without the Olympic skills to drag out a cuts victory. Even Williams, while indulging in a quaintly old-fashioned training regime that saw him pushing parked cars to build upper body strength, was encouraged to eat so wholesomely that his expansive girth was a prime target for mockery, as well as historical stats. Equalling the heaviest title bout in history is one way to go into the history books, but probably not what the Williams camp favoured.

Johnson, meanwhile, while skilled, had less justification to be in a ring with Vitali on the night he arrived, while Sanders seemingly gambled on being able to repeat the trick of a two-round Klitschko demolition... a trick which, in his favour, he very nearly managed.

The Sanders bout was an uncomfortably amateurish bout for a vacated title, yet the one-sided Johnson pounding had added frisson by being Vitali’s calling card for a Lewis rematch. However, since Lewis’s retirement Klitschko seems unable to generate excitement on his own terms, but have his name mentioned solely as a catalyst for a possible Lewis return.

So... how good is Vitali? At present, next to impossible to tell. His uniquely rigid stance inspires many detractors for what is an aesthetically displeasing style, though his torso can be effectively manoeuvred out of range, and at a far greater speed than his critics would attest. It looks deceptively easy to hit, though this is a man with a Doctorate in physical science that uses his height and build to his advantage, not his opponent’s. There’s never any need to get in close, when rivals can be tagged from an 80" reach.

The power is an important question, and seems to tie in to Vitali’s pensive fighting style – it’s on record that he hits less hard than Mike Tyson (no great shame in that), and the vast majority of his punches are from the arms. Lovers of the heavyweight division for its prime exponent – the knock-out – are likely to feel shortchanged by a man who relies on steady pounding of opponents and TKOs (21 of his 34 knock out record) over one-punch finishes. Yet he gets the job done, however unsatisfactorily (both of his opponents in his last two, championship, fights, have been stopped by the referee’s intervention, not his own hands). It’s a considerable question as to what Vitali could do if he actually sat down on those punches, bearing in mind the damage he causes just from what amount to rudimentary swipes.

Then there’s the chin, heart and stamina. Next to his inappropriately respectful paintings of opponents ("Because the Garden’s sold out, that’s why!" was once Ali’s reply to why he and Joe Frazier continually insulted one another) all three are the most suspect elements in Vitali’s make-up. The first is perhaps unfair – while he was seen to be running shamefully across the ring after a Sanders shot on the chin and was rocked backwards after walking onto a Lewis jab, this is also the same fighter who took two vintage Lewis uppercuts and withstood Sander’s follow up assaults to overpower him. The most obvious reason why this will – and perhaps always will be – in doubt is the simple fact that he shares 75% of the same genetic material as the man who currently has what is regarded as the elite’s weakest chin. Whether Wladimir’s problems in this area are more psychological than physiological remains to be seen, but this is an element that will always – no matter how illogical – play at the back of some observer’s minds.

The heart and the stamina? Neither are truly tested at the present time. While it’s arguable that such a large frame will be vulnerable to injury and Vitali was applying intelligent caution in the Byrd fight, his apparent lack of interest in erasing this blot from his record, figuratively speaking, will lead to speculation. The stamina, too, which sees his mouth a gaping maw from the second round in many of his fights, will always be open to question, until proven otherwise. As Larry Merchant noted "that thing [he] does with [his] mouth", creates the impression that this is a behemoth desperately waiting to be taken, some robotic, shallow-breathing dinosaur waiting for imposed extinction.

All of these flaws in Klitschko’s armoury (along with his dislike of moving to his right, something the Williams camp noted and spectacularly failed to capitalise on) carve the impression of a champion living on borrowed time. Unfortunately for lovers of the sport, the one man who stood a chance of deposing him is now retired and at least three years past his peak, while the next best bet is an overweight middle who would be attempting more of a gamble than a two-round Corrie Sanders. Rahman, his next, oft-postponed opponent, is believed to have a good chance, though this seems more to rely on the fact that he pulled an upset over another demotivated giant, and a recent four-round win over the unheralded Kali Meehan (a fighter despatched by the equally-unheralded Williams in seconds). Chris Byrd, said to relish a rematch opportunity, was more adept at avoiding Vitali’s punches than delivering any of his own, though the technical win would make him a viable candidate for a match-up, as would Brewster in terms of family honour.

But a champion can only be as good as his competition, and even a pre-exile Ali had largely uncompetitive rivals. (Not that I’d ever compare the likes of Sonny Liston, Zora Folley and Henry Cooper with Douglas, Sanders and Williams). Only with his who’s who of greats in his second reign did Ali really cement his reputation, and sadly no such roll call of talent presently exists.

So... Vitali Klitschko. Is he any good? Beats me.

This post too long. I read the first paragraph.

vitali is underrated and will never get any credit.

This post too long. I read the first paragraph.
well you root for Ruiz, your attention span must be very short

good post, good points about the ying & yang of the Vitali situation, we'll really never know how good he is (or isn't) until he fights a top-flight opponent, ie Rahman or Toney. Let's remember: Williams, Sanders, Johnson, and Lewis were all completely out-of-shape vs. Vitali, and his only top 10 opponent outside of those 4 guys was Chris Byrd and Vitali lost to Byrd (a loss is a loss is a loss, no matter how it happened).... All of my "fans" know my opinion of Quit-schko, the back surgery is a total joke and will be used as a front if he doesn't perform well vs. Rahman in September, but if he wins by KO, then all wrongs are solved and Quitali will be the #1 heavyweight

Tszyu over Hatton by brutal mid-round KO, then Manchester over Tszyu via a brutal beer-motivated muggingThat is hilarious! :) I've been worried about that myself, it's a lose-lose situation for Tszyu... even if he wins he gets a thousand Manc scallys filling him in.

IMO, beating rahman will prove little cause rahman couldn't beat ruiz or an old holyfield.... VK will have to beat byrd or toney.... KO'ing ruiz would be nice too....

Interesting read man... I reckon that Vitali is OK!... He's not that great, but he's gonna be hard to shift because of his size (And the fact that there's no one out there to shift him!... LOL!).

But I don't mind him as the Heavyweight champion of the World, because he's a GOOD fighter, and he's respectable.

My favourite fighter of all time is Lennox Lewis, and albeit Lennox was out of shape - Vitali gave him one hell of a fight that night in MSG.

So Vitali was the guy to take over... And he did that.

I got no complants with him... What I do have complaints with is the likes of Brewster - Byrd - Ruiz/Toney - whatever, trying to claim they're the REAL heavyweight champion. Irritates me.

Vitali's the guy whether you like it or not, And if anyone wants to be the heavyweight champion of the World they're gonna have to go through him!.

Interesting read man... I reckon that Vitali is OK!... He's not that great, but he's gonna be hard to shift because of his size (And the fact that there's no one out there to shift him!... LOL!).

But I don't mind him as the Heavyweight champion of the World, because he's a GOOD fighter, and he's respectable.

My favourite fighter of all time is Lennox Lewis, and albeit Lennox was out of shape - Vitali gave him one hell of a fight that night in MSG.

So Vitali was the guy to take over... And he did that.

I got no complants with him... What I do have complaints with is the likes of Brewster - Byrd - Ruiz/Toney - whatever, trying to claim they're the REAL heavyweight champion. Irritates me.

Vitali's the guy whether you like it or not, And if anyone wants to be the heavyweight champion of the World they're gonna have to go through him!.
great points, 1 small correction: Vitali gave Lennox a hell of a fight at STAPLES, not MSG, I only remember because I took my dad to the fight for his 45th B-day :)
But anyhow, I agree that he's a good "face" for the division as its champion, he's a big dude who punches hard and is a relatively good citizen outside the ring, I just want to see him vs. elite competition before making any further judgments

funny how no matter what vitali does peopel will always say o he's a quiter, how about lewis he has no mroe heart then vitali does showign up as the champ out of shape and gettign KO'd by a sack of **** in rahman while smiling at it. and u call yourself a boxing fan more liek a disgrace if u ask me

IMO, beating rahman will prove little cause rahman couldn't beat ruiz or an old holyfield.... VK will have to beat byrd or toney.... KO'ing ruiz would be nice too....
i dont c the big deal about toney. he beat ruiz, but out of the 2 middlweights who became HW champs, two hav beaten ruiz. so i dont think toney is that amazing, plus he cant fight for another 3 months as itis

great points, 1 small correction: Vitali gave Lennox a hell of a fight at STAPLES, not MSG, I only remember because I took my dad to the fight for his 45th B-day I mentioned the Garden as the place that Ali mentioned, in my bit of underdeveloped musing on why Vitali doesn't sell more tickets. It was Ali's reasoning behind his smack talk.

Bet that must have been great to have been at that one. :)

vitlai can sell mroe tickets with just him fighting then ruiz,byrd,lamon all can when those 3 are on the same card. hell didnt vitali vs danny sell more then ruiz,byrd,golota,holy,donald king ppv?

I mentioned the Garden as the place that Ali mentioned, in my bit of underdeveloped musing on why Vitali doesn't sell more tickets. It was Ali's reasoning behind his smack talk.

Bet that must have been great to have been at that one. :)
yeah it was wild, when I bought the tix is was supposed to be Lewis-Kirk Johnson with Vitali on the undercard, then Johnson's fat ass got injured, so all of a sudden we were attending the biggest fight of the year, it was insanity inside STAPLES any time that Klitschko landed a shot, round 2 was more intense than all 3 rounds of Holyfield-Tyson 2 combined (took my dad to that one too, I'm a great son :) )...even when the fight ended, people stook around for about an hour to trash-talk and wave their flags, it was a fun scene

i dont c the big deal about toney. he beat ruiz, but out of the 2 middlweights who became HW champs, two hav beaten ruiz. so i dont think toney is that amazing, plus he cant fight for another 3 months as itis


well by beating ruiz, he beat a guy that fres, rahman, and golota could not... so you have to put him above other guys who have beaten nobody like peter, brock, mccline, fres, etc... also, he's a master boxer, with the exception of byrd, noone else can match him skills wise

great points, 1 small correction: Vitali gave Lennox a hell of a fight at STAPLES, not MSG, I only remember because I took my dad to the fight for his 45th B-day :)
But anyhow, I agree that he's a good "face" for the division as its champion, he's a big dude who punches hard and is a relatively good citizen outside the ring, I just want to see him vs. elite competition before making any further judgments
oops... :o The staples centre... LOL!... I reckon you saw one of the greatest heavyweight fights of all time there.

I can only imagine what the atmosphere was like in there... And after Kirk Johnson pulled out a couple of weeks before with torn chest muscles... I bet you were jumping up and down when you learned that the replacement was to be Vitali Klitscho!!!

oops... :o The staples centre... LOL!... I reckon you saw one of the greatest heavyweight fights of all time there.

I can only imagine what the atmosphere was like in there... And after Kirk Johnson pulled out a couple of weeks before with torn chest muscles... I bet you were jumping up and down when you learned that the replacement was to be Vitali Klitscho!!!
Yeah i was pumped up, because I figured the entire card would get postponed or cancelled altogether, but give Gary Shaw credit, he upped Lewis' purse by about 1.5mil to fight Vitali and Lewis took the $$$, people give Lennox crap for being out of shape, but they forget that he was gonna fight Krispy Kreme Kirk originally, which would have been an easy fight, and he took the Vitali fight on about 8 days notice....

anyhow, the electricity inside STAPLES was ridiculous, you could tell from the opening bell that Vitali was more focused than ever, and that Lennox didn't have his A-game, but that's what made it such an exciting fight, I was in the last row, in the corner, but we were surrounded by wild Ukranians, wearing the soccer jerseys and waving their flags, it was a raucous crowd to say the least, and there were about a dozen scraps in the crowd after the fight got stopped, what a night!

Klitschko is the best HW, I cant wait tll September when hes gonna kill Hasim the asscrack Rahman then all ya haters will shut up.... Keep an eye out for his bro too and my man Nick the slick Valuev, yall cant stop them, Ruiz is done, Byrd is a lil *****, and Brewster and Toney dont even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Vitali.....

Klitschko is the best HW, I cant wait tll September when hes gonna kill Hasim the asscrack Rahman then all ya haters will shut up.... Keep an eye out for his bro too and my man Nick the slick Valuev, yall cant stop them, Ruiz is done, Byrd is a lil *****, and Brewster and Toney dont even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Vitali.....

Vitali keeps ducking Ruiz assmunch.

vitlai can sell mroe tickets with just him fighting then ruiz,byrd,lamon all can when those 3 are on the same card. hell didnt vitali vs danny sell more then ruiz,byrd,golota,holy,donald king ppv?


Vitali vs Williams was a farce, and a PPV disaster. You have no idea what you're talking about.

HBO origionally tried to say it did 150K PPV buys, and lost money at that. It later came out that it did about 75K at best.

Klitschko is the best HW, I cant wait tll September when hes gonna kill Hasim the asscrack Rahman then all ya haters will shut up.... Keep an eye out for his bro too and my man Nick the slick Valuev, yall cant stop them, Ruiz is done, Byrd is a lil *****, and Brewster and Toney dont even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Vitali.....
Just when I was about to say there are no haters here as Bozo_No_No didn't show up yet.. and there he is.
LOL

Good posts everyone!

This post too long. I read the first paragraph.


That's too bad. But understandable, since Ruiz wasn't mentioned. You should have read it. It was quite insightful.

That's too bad. But understandable, since Ruiz wasn't mentioned. You should have read it. It was quite insightful.Thank you very much. :)

Vitali vs Williams was a farce, and a PPV disaster. You have no idea what you're talking about.

HBO origionally tried to say it did 150K PPV buys, and lost money at that. It later came out that it did about 75K at best.


i cant find anyone to verify this, other than **********, where g. leon hates VK... i have seen several articles stating the 120K buys, including ones from as recent as April...

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/1880/april-showers-but-not-rain-hbo-sprinkles

Yo pretender your boy is done, what can you r boy due to Vitali, hug him the whole fight, hell get so hard this time he will really retire. Actually I would let Valuev handle Ruiz wouldnt even waste my time with him if I was Vitali...

Just when I was about to say there are no haters here as Bozo_No_No didn't show up yet.. and there he is.
LOL

Good posts everyone!



I don't hate Vitali.

I hate idiots like you that are completely blinded baised jock sniffers.

Even if Klitschko Willilams did reach 120K PPV sales (which I don't believe) HBO said that was a big disapointment, meaning Vitali is NOT marketable on his own.

Its nice to see that pointing out that he's not a big draw wounds the ever so sensitive feelings of some of you sac sniffers.

I don't hate Vitali.

I hate idiots like you that are completely blinded baised jock sniffers.

Even if Klitschko Willilams did reach 120K PPV sales (which I don't believe) HBO said that was a big disapointment, meaning Vitali is NOT marketable on his own.

Its nice to see that pointing out that he's not a big draw wounds the ever so sensitive feelings of some of you sac sniffers.


but still marketable enough to sell more tickets then byrd,ruiz combined lol

well you root for Ruiz, your attention span must be very short

good post, good points about the ying & yang of the Vitali situation, we'll really never know how good he is (or isn't) until he fights a top-flight opponent, ie Rahman or Toney. Let's remember: Williams, Sanders, Johnson, and Lewis were all completely out-of-shape vs. Vitali, and his only top 10 opponent outside of those 4 guys was Chris Byrd and Vitali lost to Byrd (a loss is a loss is a loss, no matter how it happened).... All of my "fans" know my opinion of Quit-schko, the back surgery is a total joke and will be used as a front if he doesn't perform well vs. Rahman in September, but if he wins by KO, then all wrongs are solved and Quitali will be the #1 heavyweight

The back surgery is a total joke? Are you saying he didnt have surgery, and that he lied about it? If so, where is your proof? Or are you saying that back surgery itself is a joke? And anyone who undergoes back surgery is a ***** if they cant get in the ring and box the next day? What exactly are you saying? Im dying to hear.

The point of this thread was to ask for opinions about Vitali.

Mine is this:

He's a large akward super heavyweight, who at the moment, is one of the better fighters in one of the weakest points in the history of the Heavyweight division.

He has lost the two biggest fights of his career agaisnt the two best fighters he's faced, and aside from that, his biggest career wins are over Larry Donald, a grossly out of Shape Kirk Johnson, and Corrie Sanders.

He is a solid strong Heavyweight, but he has a lot to prove. No one who's biggest wins are the 3 I just mentioned deserves the acclaim and blinded worship I read about him on forums like this.

He still has a lot to prove, and is one of 3 title holders with equal claim to the top spot at the moement.

Should he unify the titles, that will be a speak very well for him, and he will deserve some of this credit being thrown around. As it is now, he's injured, and when he does return, will be tied up fighting Rahman, a fighter that already was thoroughly beat by John Ruiz.


He has the potential to become a very good Heavyweight champion, but he isn't yet, and has a lot left to prove in the comming years.

That's not hateful in the least.

Heres one statement that sums up the heavyweight division:

NO ONE WILL BEAT VITALI RIGHT NOW!

but still marketable enough to sell more tickets then byrd,ruiz combined lol


No, it did the same number of buys, only the King card didn't have rumors of inflated numbers.

Again, even at the embelished 120K buys, HBO still took a bath:

HBO Sports announced earlier this week that last Saturday nights pay-per-view heavyweight title fight between Vitali Klitschko and Danny Williams at the Mandalay Bay Events Center in Las Vegas generated approximately 120,000 buys. This comes on the heels of the Nov. 13 heavyweight PPV show from New York's Madison Square Garden, which also produced 120,000 buys. "We're disappointed," said HBO’s Ross Greenburg.

well by beating ruiz, he beat a guy that fres, rahman, and golota could not... so you have to put him above other guys who have beaten nobody like peter, brock, mccline, fres, etc... also, he's a master boxer, with the exception of byrd, noone else can match him skills wise

Please, stop splitting hairs. We all know Golota won the fight. Just like we all know that a judge can bought as easily as a loaf of bread these days.

still he sold just as many PPV's as the other guys combined and he was fighting what most considered an unpopular opponent, nobody bought the PPV to see williams..

Anorak
I’m not going to quote (copy) your entire post directly, it’s way to long and I don’t want to make everyone scroll that far.

Though many of your points are valid, well thought out, and your post well written, I would like to point out a few things. When you described Vitali, you used these words……… - untested, tentative, vulnerable, lack of caution, conducting an undignified scrambling retreat, his moment already been and gone, displeasing style, he gets the job done however unsatisfactorily, running shamefully across the ring, and a champion living on borrowed time…….. - all of which are your opinion and the opinion of some others. You are entitled to your opinion, however it’s difficult to see your post as “objective” when you've obviously formed an opinion of Vitali and express it so openly. In all fairness to you, you also have a pessimistic perspective when describing others as well.

Now in fairness to Vital, I would like to add an optimistic perspective. Vitali Klitschko has about a 93.5% KO ratio (37fights/34ko's), The WBC championship belt, has never been knocked down, and has never been behind on the score cards at the end of any of his fights including his two losses to Lewis and Byrd. That's more than Lewis, Byrd, Ruiz, or any other current top HW can say - and it’s fact not opinion. That’s what I look for in champion.

In regards to Vitali’s recent opponents, Lewis old and fat - Johnson fat - Sanders old and out of shape - and Williams out of shape. To those that are bias againt Vitali, there will always be something wrong with his opponents. If Vitali fights and beats Rahman, there will be something wrong with Rahman too. The truth is, you can find something wrong with just about anyone, including most of Lewis’s opponents as well.

Vitali's not perfect, but he's not so bad either.

Your post was opinionated, but it was an attempt at being objective and I did enjoy reading it.

Vitali keeps ducking Ruiz assmunch.


Really? How exactly is he doing that?

Anorak
I’m not going to quote (copy) your entire post directly, it’s way to long and I don’t want to make everyone scroll that far.

Though many of your points are valid, well thought out, and your post well written, I would like to point out a few things. When you described Vitali, you used these words……… - untested, tentative, vulnerable, lack of caution, conducting an undignified scrambling retreat, his moment already been and gone, displeasing style, he gets the job done however unsatisfactorily, running shamefully across the ring, and a champion living on borrowed time…….. - all of which are your opinion and the opinion of some others. You are entitled to your opinion, however it’s difficult to see your post as “objective” when you've obviously already formed an opinion of Vitali and express it so openly. In all fairness to you, you also have a pessimistic perspective when describing others as well.

Now in fairness to Vital, I would like to add an optimistic perspective. Vitali Klitschko has about a 93.5% KO ratio (37fights/34ko's), The WBC championship belt, has never been knocked down, and has never been behind on the score cards at the end of any of his fights including his two losses to Lewis and Byrd. That's more than Lewis, Byrd, Ruiz, or any other current top HW can say - and it’s fact not opinion. That’s what I look for in champion.

In regards to Vitali’s recent opponents, Lewis old and fat - Johnson fat - Sanders old and out of shape - and Williams out of shape. To those that are bias againt Vitali, there will always be something wrong with his opponents. If Vitali fights and beats Rahman, there will be something wrong with Rahman too. The truth is, you can find something wrong with just about anyone, including most of Lewis’s opponents as well.

Vitali's not perfect, but he's not so bad either.

Your post was opinionated, but it was an attempt at being objective and I did enjoy reading it.


I agree wit this!







And to anybody out there that thinks Vitali will lose, I've always got points to bet on any Vitali fights. ANY FIGHT AT ALL!

still he sold just as many PPV's as the other guys combined and he was fighting what most considered an unpopular opponent, nobody bought the PPV to see williams..


And they LOST money even if it were true that they did reach 120K, which I don't buy. HBO is completely biased in trying to embelish and market Vitali.

Just because it matched other ****ty PPV sales doesn't make it any better. It still lost them money.

There is no indication that he's becomming a PPV draw, as was earlier suggested.

That's more than Lewis, Byrd, Ruiz, or any other current top HW can say - and it’s fact not opinion. That’s what I look for in champion.




What are you talking about?

Ruiz, Byrd, and especially Lennox Lewis have beaten better fighters that an out of shape Kirk Johnson, Larry Donald, and Corrie Sanders.

Who cares what his KO % was like prior to the Lewis fight.

LOOK at who he fought the majority of his career. Club fighters in Germany.

Do you need to see the list of his opponents again?

It was highlighted by names like Norris, Purrity, Sullivan, etc.


The bottom line is not that he's never been behind on the cards. Its that he has yet to beat anything better than a B level fighter.

Anorak
I’m not going to quote (copy) your entire post directly, it’s way to long and I don’t want to make everyone scroll that far.

Though many of your points are valid, well thought out, and your post well written, I would like to point out a few things. When you described Vitali, you used these words……… - untested, tentative, vulnerable, lack of caution, conducting an undignified scrambling retreat, his moment already been and gone, displeasing style, he gets the job done however unsatisfactorily, running shamefully across the ring, and a champion living on borrowed time…….. - all of which are your opinion and the opinion of some others. You are entitled to your opinion, however it’s difficult to see your post as “objective” when you've obviously formed an opinion of Vitali and express it so openly. In all fairness to you, you also have a pessimistic perspective when describing others as well.

Now in fairness to Vital, I would like to add an optimistic perspective. Vitali Klitschko has about a 93.5% KO ratio (37fights/34ko's), The WBC championship belt, has never been knocked down, and has never been behind on the score cards at the end of any of his fights including his two losses to Lewis and Byrd. That's more than Lewis, Byrd, Ruiz, or any other current top HW can say - and it’s fact not opinion. That’s what I look for in champion.

In regards to Vitali’s recent opponents, Lewis old and fat - Johnson fat - Sanders old and out of shape - and Williams out of shape. To those that are bias againt Vitali, there will always be something wrong with his opponents. If Vitali fights and beats Rahman, there will be something wrong with Rahman too. The truth is, you can find something wrong with just about anyone, including most of Lewis’s opponents as well.

Vitali's not perfect, but he's not so bad either.

Your post was opinionated, but it was an attempt at being objective and I did enjoy reading it.

Hi Torino, thanks for your reply, glad you enjoyed reading it. It's always nice when people can agree to disagree without mud slinging or all this "haters" business.

I think one false impression I've given though is that I'm not behind Vitali... in trying to be objective I maybe went too far the other way. For instance, I should have specified that his displeasing style is how others see it... personally I really like to see him fight, even though I haven't been on the edge of my seat since the Lewis bout. The same goes for him being on borrowed time.. this is how his critics view him, personally I can't see him being beat by anyone out there right now, except possibly (and that's a big stretch) James Toney.

What are you talking about?

Ruiz, Byrd, and especially Lennox Lewis have beaten better fighters that an out of shape Kirk Johnson, Larry Donald, and Corrie Sanders.

Who cares what his KO % was like prior to the Lewis fight.

LOOK at who he fought the majority of his career. Club fighters in Germany.

Do you need to see the list of his opponents again?

It was highlighted by names like Norris, Purrity, Sullivan, etc.


The bottom line is not that he's never been behind on the cards. Its that he has yet to beat anything better than a B level fighter.
I will just respond by reposting the information you deliberately left out. And the KO% is post Lewis. It was about 97% before

Vitali Klitschko has about a 93.5% KO ratio (37fights/34ko's), The WBC championship belt, has never been knocked down, and has never been behind on the score cards at the end of any of his fights including his two losses to Lewis and Byrd. That's more than Lewis, Byrd, Ruiz, or any other current top HW can say - and it’s fact not opinion. That’s what I look for in champion.

In regards to Vitali’s recent opponents, Lewis old and fat - Johnson fat - Sanders old and out of shape - and Williams out of shape. To those that are bias againt Vitali, there will always be something wrong with his opponents. If Vitali fights and beats Rahman, there will be something wrong with Rahman too. The truth is, you can find something wrong with just about anyone, including most of Lewis’s opponents as well.

both klitschkos are pieces of ****

both klitschkos are pieces of ****Thanks for that. Good one.

I will just respond by reposting the information you deliberately left out. And the KO% is post Lewis.


You are absolutely brainwashed.

He hasn't beaten anything better than a B level (calling Johnson, Sanders, and Donald B level is generous) fighter, and beyond those 3, you'd be hard pressed to call anyone else he's beat a "C" level fighter.

Lewis, Byrd and Ruiz have been behind on the cards because they've all fought better fighters. The is no compairison.

I posted Vitali's record for you a few weeks back, and showed you how before the Lewis fight, his record was outright Garbage. Outside of Byrd and Lewis (who he LOST to), he could have 100% KO ratio, and it wouldn't be anymore significant. Beyond Donald and Johnson, his resume is completely unimpressive.

Nothing you can say or tell yourself changes the fact he is still virtually unproven, and hasn't beaten anyone even remotly close to being a world class fighter.

And they LOST money even if it were true that they did reach 120K, which I don't buy. HBO is completely biased in trying to embelish and market Vitali.

Just because it matched other ****ty PPV sales doesn't make it any better. It still lost them money.

There is no indication that he's becomming a PPV draw, as was earlier suggested.


not arguing that point, just pointing out that VK sold just as many PPV's as the other champs and contenders, king's entire army, combined... i think thats one factor to consider when assessing who the top guy is....

both klitschkos are pieces of ****


always nice to get some intelligent input to keep us str8

You are absolutely brainwashed.

He hasn't beaten anything better than a B level (calling Johnson, Sanders, and Donald B level is generous) fighter, and beyond those 3, you'd be hard pressed to call anyone else he's beat a "C" level fighter.

Lewis, Byrd and Ruiz have been behind on the cards because they've all fought better fighters. The is no compairison.

I posted Vitali's record for you a few weeks back, and showed you how before the Lewis fight, his record was outright Garbage. Outside of Byrd and Lewis (who he LOST to), he could have 100% KO ratio, and it wouldn't be anymore significant. Beyond Donald and Johnson, his resume is completely unimpressive.

Nothing you can say or tell yourself changes the fact he is still virtually unproven, and hasn't beaten anyone even remotly close to being a world class fighter.


OK......then in your opinion, who would beat Vitali right now? And please, dont say Toney.

OK......then in your opinion, who would beat Vitali right now? And please, dont say Toney.

Maybe with steroids.

OK......then in your opinion, who would beat Vitali right now? And please, dont say Toney.



This is the part that seems to be the toughest for the goofy Klitscho pic avatar club to understand.

Hypotheticlly saying "Who could beat him right now" or "He'd knock out Byrd, Toney and Ruiz" doesn't mean anything.

He hasn't fought the other top Heavyweights out there at the moment, so the fact that many of you are so convinced he'd dominate everyone is nothing more than fiction at this point.

Once he does, in reality, beat Byrd, Ruiz, Toney, or whoever holds the other two titles, I will say he's beaten the best fighters out there, and that he is deserving of being called the top Heavyweight.

As it is now, he hasn't beaten anything better than a B level fighter, is injured and inactive, and will be tied up with a mandatory upon his return.

He has a lot to prove at this point to fill the shoes HBO and all of the fanatics have created, and it's going to take time.

If he unifies and beats the best out there, I will give him props.

As it is now, he's a big akward Heavyweight that has a meidocre resume in a wide open and weak heavyweight division.

bozo thats still ym poitn he can sell just as much as 2 other heavy title holders. and ya vitali has fought B fighters, BUT HE NEVER STRUGGLED WITH ANY OF THEM TOTALLY OUTCLASSED THEM, so you know he can beat A fighters, ya he lost to byrd cause of a injury and lewis but he was still winning, do u think he cant beat byrd? hell no even by losing he proved he can beat byrd, u haters liek to nitpick everything to downgrade the man.

bozo thats still ym poitn he can sell just as much as 2 other heavy title holders. and ya vitali has fought B fighters, BUT HE NEVER STRUGGLED WITH ANY OF THEM TOTALLY OUTCLASSED THEM, so you know he can beat A fighters, ya he lost to byrd cause of a injury and lewis but he was still winning, do u think he cant beat byrd? hell no even by losing he proved he can beat byrd, u haters liek to nitpick everything to downgrade the man.

good point sturm, byrd and ruiz are struggling to beat "B" level fighters like fres, golota, mccline....

bozo thats still ym poitn he can sell just as much as 2 other heavy title holders. and ya vitali has fought B fighters, BUT HE NEVER STRUGGLED WITH ANY OF THEM TOTALLY OUTCLASSED THEM, so you know he can beat A fighters, ya he lost to byrd cause of a injury and lewis but he was still winning, do u think he cant beat byrd? hell no even by losing he proved he can beat byrd, u haters liek to nitpick everything to downgrade the man.


I don't know if you're just not very bright, or if it's a language barrier problem.


1) Again, even if he sold 120K buys to match that King card, it still lost a ton of money, and was a big disapointment. It was not impressive, and not an indication he's going to be a PPV draw. Understand?

2) A lot of good fighters outclass B level fighters. That isn't a sure sign of anything. If dominating Donald, Johnson, and Sanders was impressive in your eyes, good for you.

3) He LOST to Byrd because he quit in discomfort in a fight he was well ahead in. He could have lost every remaining round not using his poor arm and still won, but he elected to quit. That's a TKO LOSS.

4) He LOST to Lennox Lewis, because while he was ahead on points in a fight that was stopped after 6 rounds, he was far behing in the "face remaining in tact" aspect of the fight. Another LOSS.

Get over it. He LOST to the the two best fighters he faced, and has dominated a bunch of weak fighters.

He has much left to prove.

You are absolutely brainwashed.

He hasn't beaten anything better than a B level (calling Johnson, Sanders, and Donald B level is generous) fighter, and beyond those 3, you'd be hard pressed to call anyone else he's beat a "C" level fighter.
Everything you said here is your opinion.
Lewis, Byrd and Ruiz have been behind on the cards because they've all fought better fighters. The is no compairison.
"There es no comparison" is your opinion.
I posted Vitali's record for you a few weeks back, and showed you how before the Lewis fight, his record was outright Garbage. Outside of Byrd and Lewis (who he LOST to), he could have 100% KO ratio, and it wouldn't be anymore significant. Beyond Donald and Johnson, his resume is completely unimpressive..
Everything you said here and everything you said then is your opinion.
Nothing you can say or tell yourself changes the fact he is still virtually unproven, and hasn't beaten anyone even remotly close to being a world class fighter.Is that so?..... Well once again here are the facts. NOT OPINION.Vitali Klitschko has about a 93.5% KO ratio (37fights/34ko's), The WBC championship belt, has never been knocked down, and has never been behind on the score cards at the end of any of his fights including his two losses to Lewis and Byrd. That's more than Lewis, Byrd, Ruiz, or any other current top HW can say - and it’s fact not opinion.

I don't know if you're just not very bright, or if it's a language barrier problem.


1) Again, even if he sold 120K buys to match that King card, it still lost a ton of money, and was a big disapointment. It was not impressive, and not an indication he's going to be a PPV draw. Understand?

2) A lot of good fighters outclass B level fighters. That isn't a sure sign of anything. If dominating Donald, Johnson, and Sanders was impressive in your eves, good for you.

3) He LOST to Byrd because he quit in discomfort in a fight he was well ahead in. He could have lost every remaining round not using his poor arm and still won, but he elected to quit. That's a TKO LOSS.

4) He LOST to Lennox Lewis, because while he was ahead on points in a fight that was stopped after 6 rounds, he was far behing in the "face remaining in tact" aspect of the fight. Another LOSS.

Get over it. He LOST to the the two best fighters he faced, and has dominated a bunch of weak fighters.

He has much left to prove.


so cause of that he cant be the champ now? and u must not get it who cares if HBO lost moeny thats not the point im makign the point is he sells more then the other combined so whoever watches the heavyweights now seem to go for vitali over all the others get it? ya he has a lost to byrd and lewis o no a lose he sucks who would u take now in a 12 round fight between byrd and vitali right now. another point im makign out is that despite losing he was easly winning those fight, and he didnt "quit" out of discomfort, he quit from fighting with a torn muscle in his shoulder for 6-7 rounds, and if u outclass a B fight doesnt that mean your an A? i dont know of any B fighters that outclass the same fight at there level cause that doesnt make sence ( unless its a style mismatch). bozo who do u htink will "destory" vitali huh?

i think the win over sanders, donald and KJ were VK's best wins... sanders was highly ranked when VK beat him(but wasnt ranked by the ABC organizations cause he held the WBO title), VK is the only guy to KO donald, who's only loss a few times, and even though KJ wasnt in shape, it didnt go long enough to become a factor cause he was blown out in 2 rounds....

good point sturm, byrd and ruiz are struggling to beat "B" level fighters like fres, golota, mccline....



lol,


The difference would be, do you see a team of rabbid Byrd and Ruiz fanatics claiming how great and prolific John Ruiz and Chris Byrd are?

so cause of that he cant be the champ now? and u must not get it who cares if HBO lost moeny thats not the point im makign the point is he sells more then the other combined so whoever watches the heavyweights now seem to go for vitali over all the others get it? ya he has a lost to byrd and lewis o no a lose he sucks who would u take now in a 12 round fight between byrd and vitali right now. another point im makign out is that despite losing he was easly winning those fight, and he didnt "quit" out of discomfort, he quit from fighting with a torn muscle in his shoulder for 6-7 rounds, and if u outclass a B fight doesnt that mean your an A? i dont know of any B fighters that outclass the same fight at there level cause that doesnt make sence ( unless its a style mismatch). bozo who do u htink will "destory" vitali huh?
What's with that guy? He named himself appropriately "BOZO". He is a clown

lol,


The difference would be, do you see a team of rabbid Byrd and Ruiz fanatics claiming how great and prolific John Ruiz and Chris Byrd are?


because they're not?

so cause of that he cant be the champ now? and u must not get it who cares if HBO lost moeny thats not the point im makign the point is he sells more then the other combined so whoever watches the heavyweights now seem to go for vitali over all the others get it? ya he has a lost to byrd and lewis o no a lose he sucks who would u take now in a 12 round fight between byrd and vitali right now. another point im makign out is that despite losing he was easly winning those fight, and he didnt "quit" out of discomfort, he quit from fighting with a torn muscle in his shoulder for 6-7 rounds, and if u outclass a B fight doesnt that mean your an A? i dont know of any B fighters that outclass the same fight at there level cause that doesnt make sence ( unless its a style mismatch). bozo who do u htink will "destory" vitali huh?

No, I don't get it, mainly because its very difficult to understand you.

You don't seem to get it, so this will be the last time.

Even if Vitali did sell 120K PPV buys vs Williams, it LOST money, and was a big disapointment.

Just because one ****ty PPV pulls even with another ****ty PPV, that doesn't make it any less ****ty.

As for your "Who do I think can beat him" questions, see my post from the last page:


This is the part that seems to be the toughest for the goofy Klitscho pic avatar club to understand.

Hypotheticlly saying "Who could beat him right now" or "He'd knock out Byrd, Toney and Ruiz" doesn't mean anything.

He hasn't fought the other top Heavyweights out there at the moment, so the fact that many of you are so convinced he'd dominate everyone is nothing more than fiction at this point.

Once he does, in reality, beat Byrd, Ruiz, Toney, or whoever holds the other two titles, I will say he's beaten the best fighters out there, and that he is deserving of being called the top Heavyweight.

As it is now, he hasn't beaten anything better than a B level fighter, is injured and inactive, and will be tied up with a mandatory upon his return.

He has a lot to prove at this point to fill the shoes HBO and all of the fanatics have created, and it's going to take time.

If he unifies and beats the best out there, I will give him props.

As it is now, he's a big akward Heavyweight that has a meidocre resume in a wide open and weak heavyweight division.

because they're not?

No, they're not. They're average.

So the difference is, there's THREE average Heavyweights that really haven't proven more than eachother that hold titles, and there's only fanatical allusions about one of them.

because they're not?
............?????? HAHHAHHAHAHA True!

What's with that guy? He named himself appropriately "BOZO". He is a clown


Nice job Torino. Just like when I posted Vitali's record to show you how significant his huge KO % was agaisnt the likes of Sullivan, Purity, Norris etc, you do this:

<img src=http://www.courthouseawarenessnews.com/Archives%20of%20campaign%20for%20county%20judge/Ostrich%20head%20in%20sand.jpg>

funny how no matter what vitali does peopel will always say o he's a quiter, how about lewis he has no mroe heart then vitali does showign up as the champ out of shape and gettign KO'd by a sack of **** in rahman while smiling at it. and u call yourself a boxing fan more liek a disgrace if u ask me

I actually agree with SacTowns last post

he said some good things about Klitschko

He needs to beat a big name to get a big name

No, they're not. They're average.

So the difference is, there's THREE average Heavyweights that really haven't proven more than eachother that hold titles, and there's only fanatical allusions about one of them.

thats where i disagree, i think VK has proven himself by destroying his opponents the way a champ should... while ruiz and byrd get gift decisions....

thats where i disagree, i think VK has proven himself by destroying his opponents the way a champ should... while ruiz and byrd get gift decisions....


A win is a win, and to me, Vitali knocking out horribly condition B class opponents is no more or less impressive than Byrd decisioning McCline, Tua and Holyfield; or Ruiz decisioning Rahman and knocking out Oquendo.

None of it is very impressive.

You point out that Byrd and Ruiz are not great fighters.

You're right.

Yet Klitschko lost to Byrd, and is signed to fight a guy Ruiz already beat.

Again, this isn't to say that he sucks, he just has a lot left to prove.

A win is a win, and to me, Vitali knocking out horribly condition B class opponents is no more or less impressive than Byrd decisioning McCline, Tua and Holyfield; or Ruiz decisioning Rahman and knocking out Oquendo.

None of it is very impressive.

You point out that Byrd and Ruiz are not great fighters.

You're right.

Yet Klitschko lost to Byrd, and is signed to fight a guy Ruiz already beat.

Again, this isn't to say that he sucks, he just has a lot left to prove.



VK is fighting rahman cause he's in the mandatory position, well either him or barrett after july, thank don king for that...

VK lost to byrd, but i dont hold against as much as you do, since he was winning and had a legit injury...

i dont argue that he has more to prove, but i think when arguing who's the top guy in the division, you have to look at HOW they're winning as well....

A win is a win, and to me, Vitali knocking out horribly condition B class opponents is no more or less impressive than Byrd decisioning McCline, Tua and Holyfield; or Ruiz decisioning Rahman and knocking out Oquendo.

None of it is very impressive.

You point out that Byrd and Ruiz are not great fighters.

You're right.

Yet Klitschko lost to Byrd, and is signed to fight a guy Ruiz already beat.

Again, this isn't to say that he sucks, he just has a lot left to prove.

a win is a win? so theres no such thing as robberies or anything?

who has byrd beat?
a super narrow descion agasint jameel big time lose mccline?
a draw with golota which is a proven fact he lost to him
near 50 fight holyfield which at that time hoyl was fighting liek a C level fighter?
David tua 1 dimensal tua u consider him a A fighter?
fres oqeundo who byrd admitted he lost to? even if he did beat fres who is fres anyway lmao?
byrd beat this vitali guy? i thought he was just a guy who ebats up on out of shape B guys wasnt that your words?

a win is a win? so theres no such thing as robberies or anything?

who has byrd beat?


Well, start with Vitali. Then there's eveyone you mentioned and tried to downplay, like you think Corie Sanders, Kirk Johnson (at 270) and Larry Donald are so much better.

I'm not the one trying to glorify Chris Byrd like you are trying to do with Klitschko.

Well, start with Vitali. Then there's eveyone you mentioned and tried to downplay, like you think Corie Sanders, Kirk Johnson (at 270) and Larry Donald are so much better.

I'm not the one trying to glorify Chris Byrd like you are trying to do with Klitschko.


u just said vitali is a guy with lots to prove and beat sup out of shape B guys lmao.



corrie sanders is better then just about anyone byrd has won agasint!!!

jameel aint better, fres aint either, tua might be even level but i dunno, id take sanders over the holyfield that byrd fought, not to mention sanders KO'd wlad in 2 roudns where as byrd got owned.

corrie sanders is better then just about anyone byrd has won agasint!!!


This conversation is over. I don't talk to drug abusers.

This thread and the article are a pieces of ****

What kind of idiot calls 5 or 6 pounds overweight ludacrous? Not to mention Lewis was already in preparation for Johnston while Vitali was going to face a tune up. Vitali is still yet to be behind on scorecards in a fight, not to mention is yet to be beat where injury doesnt occur, or even knocked down for that matter.

Here is something we should all realize, our heavyweight champ is Vitali Klitschko.

Until he beats Rahman, Toney or Byrd I don't think of him as the real champion.

Vitali is still yet to be behind on scorecards in a fight, not to mention is yet to be beat where injury doesnt occur, or even knocked down for that matter.



I hate to break it to you, but the injury you speak of (and talk about like it was incidental) was severe damage to his face caused as a direct result of punches:

<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>

It was 5 cuts for 60 stitches, and was the very definition of a TKO.

Its amazing how deluded some of you are. Now I imagine I'll hear about how it was all glove laces and head butts?

I hate to break it to you, but the injury you speak of (and talk about like it was incidental) was severe damage to his face caused as a direct result of punches:

<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>

It was 5 cuts for 60 stitches, and was the very definition of a TKO.

Its amazing how deluded some of you are. Now I imagine I'll hear about how it was all glove laces and head butts?
those punches where caused by legit punches, there's no doubt about that, one of the punches that caused the cuts was a short slicing punch, there's nothing you can really do about cuts like that

http://www.quixotica.com/pics/2000pics/misc1/whoa.jpg

I've missed some War over here.. and I was only out for two hours @ the gym.

Let me read through.. and I'll stick my 5 cents in :D

This conversation is over. I don't talk to drug abusers.


ahahah look at bozo run like a little *****, what the facts to hard to swallow for ya big boy? go home to mom

ahahah look at bozo run like a little *****, what the facts to hard to swallow for ya big boy? go home to mom


Running from a guy that can't put a sentence together?

You just said a 40 year old out of shape Corrie Sanders is better than anyone Byrd's ever fought.

Corrie Sanders was KO'd in TWO rounds in his prime by NATE TUBBS.

You officially just killed any credibility you had with that statement.

You should just stop talking now. You've proven you're beyond delusional.

I don't hate Vitali.

I hate idiots like you that are completely blinded baised jock sniffers.

Even if Klitschko Willilams did reach 120K PPV sales (which I don't believe) HBO said that was a big disapointment, meaning Vitali is NOT marketable on his own.

Its nice to see that pointing out that he's not a big draw wounds the ever so sensitive feelings of some of you sac sniffers.
Hey dick twat! :****you:
"Jock sniffers" "sac sniffers" ?? What East Bumble**** do you live in?

Who gives a **** what "you believe." 120 PPV sales is what HBO reported.
FYI, your retarded source also said that Tito came in at 166 and Winky at 169. Therefore, who gives a **** about your reliability.

Here is an advise for you.. take a hammer and start smacking down your retarded hands, so that the next time you type this **** to me, you think twice.

Hey dick twat! :****you:
"Jock sniffers" "sac sniffers" ?? What East Bumble**** do you live in?

Who gives a **** what "you believe." 120 PPV sales is what HBO reported.
FYI, your retarded source also said that Tito came in at 166 and Winky at 169. Therefore, who gives a **** about your reliability.

Here is an advise for you.. take a hammer and start smacking down your retarded hands, so that the next time you type this **** to me, you think twice.


I see that I've hurt some feelings.

Want a tissue?

<img src=http://fury.com/images/weblog/kleenex.jpg>

The point of this thread was to ask for opinions about Vitali.

Mine is this:

He's a large akward super heavyweight, who at the moment, is one of the better fighters in one of the weakest points in the history of the Heavyweight division.

He has lost the two biggest fights of his career agaisnt the two best fighters he's faced, and aside from that, his biggest career wins are over Larry Donald, a grossly out of Shape Kirk Johnson, and Corrie Sanders.

He is a solid strong Heavyweight, but he has a lot to prove. No one who's biggest wins are the 3 I just mentioned deserves the acclaim and blinded worship I read about him on forums like this.

He still has a lot to prove, and is one of 3 title holders with equal claim to the top spot at the moement.

Should he unify the titles, that will be a speak very well for him, and he will deserve some of this credit being thrown around. As it is now, he's injured, and when he does return, will be tied up fighting Rahman, a fighter that already was thoroughly beat by John Ruiz.


He has the potential to become a very good Heavyweight champion, but he isn't yet, and has a lot left to prove in the comming years.

That's not hateful in the least.
I'm not disagreeing with you on this...

I see that I've hurt some feelings.

Want a tissue?

<img src=http://fury.com/images/weblog/kleenex.jpg>
Retard,

There is nothing you can do to hurt my feelings.
You should think before you say something.. but I don't blame you, you need brains for that.

Running from a guy that can't put a sentence together?

You just said a 40 year old out of shape Corrie Sanders is better than anyone Byrd's ever fought.

Corrie Sanders was KO'd in TWO rounds in his prime by NATE TUBBS.

You officially just killed any credibility you had with that statement.

You should just stop talking now. You've proven you're beyond delusional.

ya and byrd lost to a guy that sanders took care of in 2 rounds!!

ya and byrd lost to a guy that sanders took care of in 2 rounds!!

When was that?

<img src=http://www.ufovideo.net/KlitsKOd.gif>

Oh, right.

Blitzing a guy that had been KO'd before and after by similar fringe contenders doesn't make you a viable fighter.

Sanders is a fringe contender. End of story.

You suggesting he's he-man, or a world beater, or better than anyone Byrd has ever fought is asinine.

And for the 3rd time, I never said Byrd was anything special. I'm not the one trying to claim an average relatively unproven fighter is some kind of marvel.

And who holds the WBC championship belt Bozo, next time dont say ****...

Hi Torino, thanks for your reply, glad you enjoyed reading it. It's always nice when people can agree to disagree without mud slinging or all this "haters" business.

I think one false impression I've given though is that I'm not behind Vitali... in trying to be objective I maybe went too far the other way. For instance, I should have specified that his displeasing style is how others see it... personally I really like to see him fight, even though I haven't been on the edge of my seat since the Lewis bout. The same goes for him being on borrowed time.. this is how his critics view him, personally I can't see him being beat by anyone out there right now, except possibly (and that's a big stretch) James Toney.
Anorak,

Don't even worry about it.
I'm a huge Klitschkos fan..
I once walked out of my best friend's wedding to run and see the fight on TV.. (came back later)
Same happened on an engagement party and a number of birthdays.. This is just to put in perspective that I'm a big Fan (and not a nut hugger like Bozo puts it)
We are all fans, and all have a favorite fighter. Otherwise we wouldn't be spending hours and days on this site!

Anyway, back to the point...
I really enjoyed reading your post as you are right about it. Vitaly is yet to be tested and that's what makes it great!
Every fight that comes on, there is a risk that he might loose. And that's the thrill that I love.

Tyson used to knock people out left and right, so the only excitement was "which round will it happen?" With both Klitchkos I always feel insecure and this hype is what makes it great and not his goofy style, or any other negative things he has.

This thread and the article are a pieces of ****Good for you, glad you joined in the discussion.

What kind of idiot calls 5 or 6 pounds overweight ludacrous? Dunno, but I called it "ludicrous".

bozo who do u think is better ohter then vitali that byrd has beat thats better then sanders? and not barely better

:hijacked: Seriously, I tried to start this one off as an easy-going, considered discussion. All those who want to throw primary school names around and post silly images - maybe you could go and get your own thread? It'd be nice to talk about Vitali without having to read "yo, you retud ****er" every other post.

VDiary - cheers man! :)

thats where i disagree, i think VK has proven himself by destroying his opponents the way a champ should... while ruiz and byrd get gift decisions....
Very good!

:hijacked: Seriously, I tried to start this one off as an easy-going, considered discussion. All those who want to throw primary school names around and post silly images - maybe you could go and get your own thread? It'd be nice to talk about Vitali without having to read "yo, you retud ****er" every other post.

VDiary - cheers man! :)
Some people just can't keep it civilized (bozo) and until you shut their mouth, they will keep squeaking..

Some people just can't keep it civilized

Hey dick twat! :****you:

"Jock sniffers" "sac sniffers" ?? What East Bumble**** do you live in?

Who gives a **** what "you believe."

Here is an advise for you.. take a hammer and start smacking down your retarded hands, so that the next time you type this **** to me, you think twice.


Some people can't deal with an opinion that shatters their fanatical delusions, and it causes them to fly off the handle with childish insults.

Vitali can fight and knock guyz out, the H.W division is very boring as it is, Vitali is capable of providing a little excitemnent so he should not be criticized for his skills.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by vdiary

Some people just can't keep it civilized

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by vdiary



Hey dick twat! :****you:

"Jock sniffers" "sac sniffers" ?? What East Bumble**** do you live in?

Who gives a **** what "you believe."

Here is an advise for you.. take a hammer and start smacking down your retarded hands, so that the next time you type this **** to me, you think twice.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Some people can't deal with an opinion that shatters their fanatical delusions, and it causes them to fly off the handle with childish insults.
Nice one, why did you leave the original out?
I don't hate Vitali.

I hate idiots like you that are completely blinded baised jock sniffers.

Even if Klitschko Willilams did reach 120K PPV sales (which I don't believe) HBO said that was a big disapointment, meaning Vitali is NOT marketable on his own.

Its nice to see that pointing out that he's not a big draw wounds the ever so sensitive feelings of some of you sac sniffers.
Who are you calling an Idiot?

Man you guys whining about a whole lot of nothing. Only one guy in the hw division got a good record of defenses, 5-1 to be exact, and he put the PR in PRIDE. You guys know exactly who the real champ is.

This has to stop! It's getting ridiculous.

Bottom line is, Vitali is currently considered to be the best heavyweight out there as he potentially looks more promising than Ruiz/Bird/Brewster.
However being the best he has yet to prove it and we all know it.
So can we all stop this circular arguments and move on?

i dunno what the deal here is.

Vitali IS CURRENTLY the best heavyweight in my opinion. I don't see anyone beating him at this moment. Jest bcuz as you say he's "not proven", that doesn't indicate ****. Vitali will beat all of these fake title holders. You may hate Vitali, but that's how it is.


As for the PPV, that was the 1st time Vitali headlined a PPV. What's wrong bout that? Erik Morales sold **** when it was his 1st PPV, let Vitali take it slowly. Besides, is there any heavyweight fights out there that should be labeled "superfight"? I dont think so.

This has to stop! It's getting ridiculous.

Bottom line is, Vitali is currently considered to be the best heavyweight out there as he potentially looks more promising than Ruiz/Bird/Brewster.
However being the best he has yet to prove it and we all know it.
So can we all stop this circular arguments and move on?

Thats your opinion, and as wrong as it is, you entitled to it. I know who the real champ is!

And who holds the WBC championship belt Torino, next time dont say ****...

I contemplated ignoring this post, then I considered just agreeing w/you just for the sake of piece. Since you felt the need to be arrogant in your reply, I decided to respond.

Do you know what the definition of "Interim" is?
Interim 1: The time between 2: The meantime 3: For the time being 4:Temporary

In other words, Rahman or Barrett (both of which I have great respect for) still have to go through Vitali before they can be called the WBC champion, or Vitali has to back out of the September fight date. The only reason the WBC created this interim title is to assure that Vitali defends his title by September.

You should do your homework or "next time don't say ****". Einstein!

Wow, there is a war out here. Anyway the original post has some valid points, but I do think however that Vitaly is more tested than Anorak states. I would call Vit a semiuntested fighter(i know that word does not exist but...I am from Brooklyn). He does have a great chin, and punches that rocked him would prolly put down anybody else in the division, he also has a very good defense style, even though weird and eye unpleasing but very effective, he def. got vey good power in both hands(nothing special really, but good enough to ko anybody with a sheer amount of punches) and he also got a very good accuracy, with the amoun of punches that he throws he lands about 35% to 40% which is really good for a Heavyweight, he is also decently quick, its just you get the impression that he is slow because of his size but he is quick, you just gotta see him live to understand it. But as for me his biggest asset is his mind. he is what you call a smart fighter(and we dont have that many of them these days)and adopts to other fighters style and what is more important does not let his opponent to adopt to his.

actually BB i think i read that vitali has a 60% hit ratio

actually BB i think i read that vitali has a 60% hit ratio
Maybe in his whole career, but against decent opponents its not more than %40, which trust me, is huge with the amount of punches that he throws.

kidna off topic but this pic is funny :)

http://www.boxing.de/all_images/im151.jpg

kidna off topic but this pic is funny :)

http://www.boxing.de/all_images/im151.jpg


what???! you shoo u didn't photoshop that? :D

Maybe in his whole career, but against decent opponents its not more than %40, which trust me, is huge with the amount of punches that he throws.


did the math in his last 4 fight its 48.5 :D

what???! you shoo u didn't photoshop that? :D
That must have been taken when Lewis and Wladimir were filming Oceans eleven.

Ok. Its obvious there is somewhat of a split in opinions regarding Vitali Klitschko as the best heavyweight. Lets see if we can break this down:

1 side of the coin.

Includes the actual opposition faced. Vitali for the most part..has not beat very good competition. Nor has he faced complete bums in every outing. Granted: He has faced some really outgunned opponents...namely Mike Ackly. That was a disgrace to boxing...and should not be considered a real win on his behalf. He knocked the outgunned little man out with basically 1 punch, and it was not a hard one at that. I use that as an example of the weaker form of his opposition...because that is exactly what it was. On the other hand, he has beat competition that redeemed him. Namely Corrie Sanders....who defeated his brother. Danny Williams....who defeated Tyson (granted Tyson was washed up...he still put on a tremendous display of courage in taking punishment in the first round). Kirk Johnson...who was arguably one of the best heavyweights at the time they faced eachother....perhaps not by most boxing critics standards.

However...I heard someone say that VK has faced the same level of competition as Ruiz, and Byrd have faced. This is completely untrue. Both Ruiz and Byrd have beat better fighters than Vitali has. Ruiz has beat names like Oquendo, Golota, Holy, blah blah etc etc. Byrd has beat equally as good of opposition including Tua, Vitali himself, Mcline, and blah blah.

second side of the coin

It is perfectly understandable to rank Vitali as the best heavyweight out there. There is no secret that with his size, punching power, ring smarts, and reach.....he can beat just about anyone. And quite frankly everyone he faces should be considered the underdog untill proven otherwise. Basically it comes down to an aesthetic matter of fighter approval......and some people think he is the best in his division. More power too them. I personally think Jeff Lacy is the best fighter in his division....and many people laugh at that.

...... I personally think Jeff Lacy is the best fighter in his division....and many people laugh at that.
I thinks so too. IMO Lacy beats Calzagge and others. His will and punching power are something.

I thinks so too. IMO Lacy beats Calzagge and others. His will and punching power are something.

Yeah they are. His tenacity is very interesting. One could only be impressed by the way he demolished the tank in Vanderpool...and the very, very game Rubin Williams. Those guys you just dont "knock out". Hence my reasoning in him knocking out the infamous "Robin Reid".

I dont get it, whats so infamous about Robin Reid. Is he some british fighter thats being hyped up by Limeys ala Williams and Eastman(and we know what happened to these bastards). Enlighten me somebody.

I dont get it, whats so infamous about Robin Reid. Is he some british fighter thats being hyped up by Limeys ala Williams and Eastman(and we know what happened to these bastards). Enlighten me somebody.

Yeah....he is a limey. His most notable wins are the following:

Cherifi UD
JC vasquez UD

and that is about it. he went the distance with Sven Ottke....and lost....but who hasnt. LOL! Calzaghe he lost to as well.

He is going down in flames.

Vasquez as you know....is the guy who knocked Wright down 5 times in one fight.

Dont listen to Limeys, these guys made the next great champ out of Danny boy and middleweight monster out of Eastman. Look what happened to these 2 poor ****ers. Next thing they do is say that Hatton is the next Pryor and gonna be whippin on alltime greats like on some jouneymen bums. So dont listen to them cause Lacy is gonna put some real hurt on that Reid guy.

I'm back...
and boy am I glad this mess is over :D

Vitali keeps ducking Ruiz assmunch.
Your boy aint ****, he cant hug all fight, Vitali will hit him so hard he will go into retirement and this he will never be back...Just like Vitali sent Lewis same **** will happen to Ruiz

What are you talking about?

Ruiz, Byrd, and especially Lennox Lewis have beaten better fighters that an out of shape Kirk Johnson, Larry Donald, and Corrie Sanders.

Who cares what his KO % was like prior to the Lewis fight.

LOOK at who he fought the majority of his career. Club fighters in Germany.

Do you need to see the list of his opponents again?

It was highlighted by names like Norris, Purrity, Sullivan, etc.


The bottom line is not that he's never been behind on the cards. Its that he has yet to beat anything better than a B level fighter.And who holds the WBC belt, and is consider the best of the HW's, haha played yourself...

both klitschkos are pieces of ****
watch what u say

I contemplated ignoring this post, then I considered just agreeing w/you just for the sake of piece. Since you felt the need to be arrogant in your reply, I decided to respond.

Do you know what the definition of "Interim" is?
Interim 1: The time between 2: The meantime 3: For the time being 4:Temporary

In other words, Rahman or Barrett (both of which I have great respect for) still have to go through Vitali before they can be called the WBC champion, or Vitali has to back out of the September fight date. The only reason the WBC created this interim title is to assure that Vitali defends his title by September.

You should do your homework or "next time don't say ****". Einstein!I was talking to bozo in dat post u got it all mixed up Im a huge klitschko fan

Your boy aint ****, he cant hug all fight, Vitali will hit him so hard he will go into retirement and this he will never be back...Just like Vitali sent Lewis same **** will happen to Ruiz

Ruiz the living dead of boxing. He never truly loses or really retires. He keeps coming back no matter what anyone does.

Ruiz the living dead of boxing. He never truly loses or really retires. He keeps coming back no matter what anyone does.

he didnt come back agasint tua though or wanted a rematch with him

Ruiz the living dead of boxing. He never truly loses or really retires. He keeps coming back no matter what anyone does.
haha thas funny, he not the living dead hes the living **** of boxing. Open your eyes dude how can u watch him fight its just sickening, 1 2 hug and grab 1 2 hug and grab, he tried to fight normal vs toney and what happend he got rocked, hes lucky toney is a bum. The fact of the matter is that Klitschko has never been knocked down and hes never lost due to KO or a decision his only losses were on injuries therefore he is the best HW now...

I've read all the way through this thread and I do diss-agree with Bozo... But I understand what he's saying, and why he would think the way he does.

The biggest problem here is the reason boxing is becoming a total mess!

THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY GOVERNING BODIES OUT THERE!!!

If it's creating these type of arguments (Who's the real heavyweight champion?) between knowledgable boxing fans like us... Can you imagine how confusing it would be to a fringe or non boxing fan?

The 1st thing that needs doing to help clean up boxing is to get rid of all these governing bodies!

There is no such thing as an elite heavyweight today. They can only be elite compared to the other top 10 heavyweights, and by those standards, Vitali is elite.

Toney, Byrd, and Rahman are no more "elite" than any other top ten fighter. It's not Vitali's fault that his opponents come in out of shape, and it is more than possible (perhaps probable) that Rahman will do the same. Actually, it's not even a sure thing for Rahman to beat Barrett (who was already molested by one of the Klitschkos).

Golota and Brock have looked more elite than anyone lately. Whoever wins Barrett-Rahman is a legit fight for Vitali, but we'll see.

If Vitali fights Byrd, so what? People will just say he was old anyway due to Byrd's recent "wins" against McCline, Oquendo, and Golota.

he didnt come back agasint tua though or wanted a rematch with him

Who's champ today? Ruiz that's who. Where's Tua? Nowhere that where.

Who's champ today? Ruiz that's who. Where's Tua? Nowhere that where.


:bottle: :bottle: :bottle:

a win is a win? so theres no such thing as robberies or anything?

who has byrd beat?
a super narrow descion agasint jameel big time lose mccline?
a draw with golota which is a proven fact he lost to him
near 50 fight holyfield which at that time hoyl was fighting liek a C level fighter?
David tua 1 dimensal tua u consider him a A fighter?
fres oqeundo who byrd admitted he lost to? even if he did beat fres who is fres anyway lmao?
byrd beat this vitali guy? i thought he was just a guy who ebats up on out of shape B guys wasnt that your words?

He says a win is a win, gift decision or no. I guess that means that great fighters are decided by whoever has the most money lol

My assessment of Vitali Klitschko is that he is the Heavyweight Champion of the world. There are alot of people and press that say he isn't the champ until he beats Chris Byrd. Well, in my opinion Fres Oquendo and Golata beat him, so then they must be the champs! Vitali Klitschko is simply the best heavyweight in the world. To his credit, he has a fight scheduled up against the only man I feel can beat him, Hasim Rahman. James Toney and Chris Byrd are too small I feel to beat Vitali.

He says a win is a win, gift decision or no. I guess that means that great fighters are decided by whoever has the most money lol


:D where the poor ghetto world champs at :mad:

:bottle: :bottle: :bottle:Posting images that others have created indicates a total lack of wit and imagination. Please... I've said before... I created this thread for ADULT discussion. If your contribution to it is "yo, klitschko sucks you ****er" then create another elsewhere and leave this one to people who want to talk about it seriously.


Good point from Brooklyn about Vitali's speed, I meant to mention that. But I think the problem is, people like a hero (think of Ali vs. the formidable Foreman) and with Vitali's size he's in an impossible position. If he loses, people will think "how did he get beat by a little guy like that?"... if he wins, people will say he has all the advantages anyway.


Oh... Robin Reid. His decision loss to Calzaghe was a split decision that many reportedly thought he'd won. As for Ottke, I did see that fight, and it was the most hilariously biased fight I've ever seen. In all objectivity Reid clearly won that one.

Oh... Robin Reid. His decision loss to Calzaghe was a split decision that many reportedly thought he'd won. As for Ottke, I did see that fight, and it was the most hilariously biased fight I've ever seen. In all objectivity Reid clearly won that one.

F**king Hell Man... Watched that Robin Reid vs Sven Ottke fight on the BBC aswell!...

I've watched A LOT of boxing over the years... But that was without a doubt the craziest display of bias I've ever seen!

Posting images that others have created indicates a total lack of wit and imagination. Please... I've said before... I created this thread for ADULT discussion. If your contribution to it is "yo, klitschko sucks you ****er" then create another elsewhere and leave this one to people who want to talk about it seriously.


Good point from Brooklyn about Vitali's speed, I meant to mention that. But I think the problem is, people like a hero (think of Ali vs. the formidable Foreman) and with Vitali's size he's in an impossible position. If he loses, people will think "how did he get beat by a little guy like that?"... if he wins, people will say he has all the advantages anyway.


Oh... Robin Reid. His decision loss to Calzaghe was a split decision that many reportedly thought he'd won. As for Ottke, I did see that fight, and it was the most hilariously biased fight I've ever seen. In all objectivity Reid clearly won that one.


anaorak u loser when have i said klitschko sucked lmao do some post reading pal

:bottle: :bottle: :bottle: :)

anaorak u loser when have i said klitschko sucked lmao do some post reading pal

:bottle: :bottle: :bottle: :)"loser" "lmao"... what originality! I wasn't just talking about you... I was referring to all the others who just want to turn this into the sort of thread illustrated here. I was to discuss OPINIONS, not insults.

"loser" "lmao"... what originality! I wasn't just talking about you... I was referring to all the others who just want to turn this into the sort of thread illustrated here. I was to discuss OPINIONS, not insults.


but u quoted me jerk off lol, now u rip people for using lmao?


:bottle: :bottle: :bottle: :)

I hate to break it to you, but the injury you speak of (and talk about like it was incidental) was severe damage to his face caused as a direct result of punches:

<img src=http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6038/vitaliklitschko27my.jpg>

It was 5 cuts for 60 stitches, and was the very definition of a TKO.

Its amazing how deluded some of you are. Now I imagine I'll hear about how it was all glove laces and head butts?


Did I someway argue that the injury wasn't serious? All I said that a fighter is still to beat Vitali without the help of injuries.

Running from a guy that can't put a sentence together?

You just said a 40 year old out of shape Corrie Sanders is better than anyone Byrd's ever fought.

Corrie Sanders was KO'd in TWO rounds in his prime by NATE TUBBS.

You officially just killed any credibility you had with that statement.

You should just stop talking now. You've proven you're beyond delusional.

Who are you to say when Corries prime was? Corries prime was when he vs Vitali, that was the best performance he ever put up, and I've seen numerous amounts of his fights. A 40 Year old Corrie Sanders managed to do somethin that Byrd only dreams of, and thats knocking out the man who gave him the worst beating to date.

Corrie Sanders was ranked no.3 by Ring, and no.2 by WBC, thats by far better rankings than anyone Byrd faced, including his win over Tua.

but u quoted me jerk off lol, now u rip people for using lmao?


:)Yes, because everything you say is so lazy, repetitive and moronic. "Jerk off"? You're the jerk off, pal. Lol, LMAO. Seriously - go somewhere else than this thread. Create your own called "let's call each other names while talking about Vitali." I used to think you were okay, but you're obviously a complete ****wit. LOL LMAO. :bottle:

F**king Hell Man... Watched that Robin Reid vs Sven Ottke fight on the BBC aswell!...

I've watched A LOT of boxing over the years... But that was without a doubt the craziest display of bias I've ever seen!
You know, I was listening to the conversation and trying my best to stay interested, and then I hear European fighters and I'm like "**** it, I have no interest."

Yes, because everything you say is so lazy, repetitive and moronic. "Jerk off"? You're the jerk off, pal. Lol, LMAO. Seriously - go somewhere else than this thread. Create your own called "let's call each other names while talking about Vitali." I used to think you were okay, but you're obviously a complete ****wit. LOL LMAO. :bottle:See what I mean.. sometimes you just can't help yourself ;)

See what I mean.. sometimes you just can't help yourself

thank for bolding what he said, he *****es about name calling and look what he does


hey anorak :bottle: :bottle: :bottle: :)

Good point from Brooklyn about Vitali's speed, I meant to mention that. But I think the problem is, people like a hero (think of Ali vs. the formidable Foreman) and with Vitali's size he's in an impossible position. If he loses, people will think "how did he get beat by a little guy like that?"... if he wins, people will say he has all the advantages anyway.
One thing that bothers me...
I don't mean the below thoughts to be racist, or to offend anyone.
But everyone always refers to Klitschko's as "Giants". The reason they are so good is because of their size. If they were smaller they would be crushed.. etc.
Yes, those are all true statements. But how come their disadvantages are never taken into consideration.
It is a known fact that black people have better stamina, naturally more athletic, have better chins, don't get cut as easily, and last but not least breath easier due to bigger nostrils.
Do you think all that equates to size advantage?

I did a little statistics where I took Top 20 guys from Boxrec and averages their height and weight. Here are my findings below:

Vitali's Hight: +almost 4 inches above the competition
Vitali's Weight: +5.5lb above competition

Wlad's Hight: + almost 2.5 inches above competition
Wlad's Weight: -3.5lb above competition

Is that such a huge difference, especially in Wlad's case? He is only 2.5 inches taller on average than the rest. And is 3.5 pound lighter. Most of us are saying he should still drop 5-10 pounds. So are they really that much "bigger" and do they really have all that advantage everyone talks about?

Forgot to mention; I did the same statistics for our P4P King: Bernard Hopkins and his division.

Hopkins is also like Wlad is almost 2.5 inches above the rest in the division. (Weight of course is not a factor)
How come no one is saying "Hopkins is so good because of his size"?

There's a members lounge you can become a part of where you don't have to endure this name calling crap when you diss-agree?

I have some STRONG opinions, but I'm cool with that, and more cool when people throw their opinions at me!

I'm interested in what other knowledgable boxing fan have to say... (Mind you I have been known to get a little pissed off with American INSULER commemnts!.. LOL!...)

What's the room?

Hey vdiary... One thing I've learnt from this website is not to "criticise" Bernard. Despite the fact that he only fight's people coming UP in weight. You want a blue-print of a BULLY... Start with Bernard Hopkins!

Vitali "IS" the heavyweight champion of the World... Anyone with reason in their head would see this!... Don't get wound up with crazy yanks "trying" to wind you up!... Forget it!

Hey vdiary... One thing I've learnt from this website is not to "criticise" Bernard. Despite the fact that he only fight's people coming UP in weight. You want a blue-print of a BULLY... Start with Bernard Hopkins!

Vitali "IS" the heavyweight champion of the World... Anyone with reason in their head would see this!... Don't get wound up with crazy yanks "trying" to wind you up!... Forget it!
Thanks for all the advise..

But what I stated is not really about Klitschkos, or Hopkins.
It's about size and racial differences in fighters.

Who are you to say when Corries prime was? Corries prime was when he vs Vitali, that was the best performance he ever put up, and I've seen numerous amounts of his fights. A 40 Year old Corrie Sanders managed to do somethin that Byrd only dreams of, and thats knocking out the man who gave him the worst beating to date.

Corrie Sanders was ranked no.3 by Ring, and no.2 by WBC, thats by far better rankings than anyone Byrd faced, including his win over Tua.



Non sense. Pure drivel.

He was an inactive golfer who did nothing more than show than show Wlad could be easilly blitzed by a big puncher.

He never amounted to anything, and saying he was better than anyone Byrd ever faced is pure ignorant non sense.

He was a large hard hitting man who never capatilized on his talent, and lost to Rahman and Norris before blitzing Wlad.

In the ring, he was almost 40, and in horrendus shape vs Vitali.

Why do so many of you insist on kidding yourselves?

Corey Sanders is and was the very definition of a FRINGE CONTENDER.

Did I someway argue that the injury wasn't serious? All I said that a fighter is still to beat Vitali without the help of injuries.

Ahh, no.

Anytime someone punches someone's face up that bad, the person on the receiving end will be beaten.

You know, I was listening to the conversation and trying my best to stay interested, and then I hear European fighters and I'm like "**** it, I have no interest."
Yeah, you're spot on, Asian Sensation, all boxers from Europe are crap and boring and not worth talking about. I agree.

Oh... wait a minute.



Isn't that Prince Naseem in your avatar? Where was he from again, Brooklyn?

Non sense. Pure drivel.

He was an inactive golfer who did nothing more than show than show Wlad could be easilly blitzed by a big puncher.

He never amounted to anything, and saying he was better than anyone Byrd ever faced is pure ignorant non sense.

He was a large hard hitting man who never capatilized on his talent, and lost to Rahman and Norris before blitzing Wlad.

In the ring, he was almost 40, and in horrendus shape vs Vitali.

Why do so many of you insist on kidding yourselves?

Corey Sanders is and was the very definition of a FRINGE CONTENDER.

just like fres, golota, mccline and barrett only he has a win over highly rated(at time) contender, and none of them do....

I don't really like Vitali, and you know what as a boxer he is quite good, he is educated and he is not a big mouth, but I just don't like him, You know how there are certain People Who you just don't like, even if you struggle for a reason why you don't like them, well that how i feel about Vitali, I just don't like the guy, but i Don't mind his Brother he is Ok, I don't know musy be his huge nose or something

Ahh, no.

Anytime someone punches someone's face up that bad, the person on the receiving end will be beaten.
Shut the hell up, Vitali would have KO'd lewis if the fight went longer, you full of **** u havent seen anything yet if u think that cut was really bad...

Shut the hell up, Vitali would have KO'd lewis if the fight went longer, you full of **** u havent seen anything yet if u think that cut was really bad...
they looked to be both as bad as each other, klitschko looked tired and lewis fell into his stool, but that cut was terrible, the fight could of went on but what price would klitschko have paid had it done? he could of ended up in a very bad state with no face left

Shut the hell up, Vitali would have KO'd lewis if the fight went longer, you full of **** u havent seen anything yet if u think that cut was really bad...Seriously, kid... learn to debate like an adult or just **** off into another thread.

just like fres, golota, mccline and barrett only he has a win over highly rated(at time) contender, and none of them do....


Well I guess by that logic, Ross Purity and Lamon Brewster are also better than everyone Byrd and Ruiz have ever fought.

:rolleyes:


Come off it.

Why do so many of you insist on speaking about Corrie Sanders like he's He-Man.

LOOK at him fighting Vitali:

<img src=http://www.boxingscene.com/media/data/500/251g3.jpg>

He's got a grandfather's build.

Corrie Sanders was ranked no.3 by Ring, and no.2 by WBC, thats by far better rankings than anyone Byrd faced, including his win over Tua.

The Feb. 2003 edition of The Ring (the rankings were compiled in Oct. 2002, just before the Byrd/Holyfield fight) would disagree with that statement of yours where you state that Corrie Sanders had a "far better ranking than anyone Byrd faced".

At that time, Evander Holyfield was ranked #3 by The Ring, #1 by the WBA, #2 by the WBC, and #2 by the IBF.

Look it up for yourself!

you full of **** u havent seen anything yet if u think that cut was really bad...

<img src=http://www.klitschko.com/gallery/index.php?lang=en&task=image&dir=fights/Vitaliy/34_Lennox_Lewis&file=klitschko-lewis_135.jpg>

they looked to be both as bad as each other, klitschko looked tired and lewis fell into his stool, but that cut was terrible, the fight could of went on but what price would klitschko have paid had it done? he could of ended up in a very bad state with no face left
Klitschko's eyeball was about to fall out of his face, the stoppage was not only correct, but about 2 rounds late as well....they could have stopped it between rounds 4 & 5 and nobody would have complained (I was at the fight, in the very last row in the corner, and even from that viewpoint it was obvious that the cut would mean the end of the match for Vitali, he fought back like a trooper but that cut was grotesque)

Seriously, kid... learn to debate like an adult or just **** off into another thread.
Yo dont mess with me piece of **** what Im saying is true. Klitschko dominated Lewis 4-2 and staggared him a few times, that cut could have been taken care of every time before rounds, Klitschko woulda rocked Lewis, thats ok though cause hes the man and will be the man for years to come. U asswholes dont know what your talking about...

No one who's biggest wins are the 3 I just mentioned deserves the acclaim and blinded worship I read about him on forums like this.

If you think VK is just blindly worshipped, and not just defended against over-aggressive haters like yourself, then why not just take your stupid ass somewhere where there are posters on your level lol

Vitali vs Williams was a farce, and a PPV disaster. You have no idea what you're talking about.

He never said anything other than VK sold as many as all the others, which is pretty much true. How is it that he doesn't know what he is talking about, you twisted what he said, as you do everyone else, again.

Yo dont mess with me piece of **** what Im saying is true. Klitschko dominated Lewis 4-2 and staggared him a few times, that cut could have been taken care of every time before rounds, Klitschko woulda rocked Lewis, thats ok though cause hes the man and will be the man for years to come. U asswholes dont know what your talking about...This is what I'm talking about - can you try and understand the point I'm making? - I created this thread for SERIOUS DISCUSSION. Calling people "pieces of ****" ISN'T serious discussion. It's infantile.

As for "not knowing what we're talking about" and "true" - none of it is, it's just subjective opinions. NO ONE can say for sure how the Lewis fight would have ended. As for dominating him 4-2, if the bout had been in the UK it probably would have been even. Lewis was crap that night, but no one can say he wouldn't have pulled it out.

Well I guess by that logic, Ross Purity and Lamon Brewster are also better than everyone Byrd and Ruiz have ever fought.

:rolleyes:


Come off it.

Why do so many of you insist on speaking about Corrie Sanders like he's He-Man.

LOOK at him fighting Vitali:

<img src=http://www.boxingscene.com/media/data/500/251g3.jpg>

He's got a grandfather's build.

You stupid ****...

Countless other heavies have had that build or one similar to it and been successful.

You think Corrie is being pumped up?

No...just given his just due.

You're just another critical piece of garbage who has never even wandered into a ring by accident. If you had ever boxed, and weren't so full of ****, you might appreciate someone besides Lewis.

No, it did the same number of buys, only the King card didn't have rumors of inflated numbers.

Again, even at the embelished 120K buys, HBO still took a bath:


What the **** does that mean?

Since you don't know, I'll clarify it for you, it means they thought it would have sold more, that's it, period.

It doesn't mean they "took a bath" or lost any money, it means they wanted more, and didn't get it. And who implied that VK was becoming a huge PPV draw, because I never read any such thing.

http://www.boxingscene.com/index.php?m=show&id=10376

Chronological List of Vitali Klitschko’s ‘Ducks’

With Vitali Klitschko pulling out of his fifth consecutive boxing match in a row, listed below please find a chronological list of Vitali’s dubious heavyweight maneuverings from 2004 to present.

Vitali Klitschko has never made a mandatory defense of a world title (WBC or WBO).

Vitali Klitschko defeats Corrie Sanders by technical knockout in round eight on April 24, 2004, at Staples Center in Los Angeles to win the vacant WBC heavyweight title (vacated by Lennox Lewis).

Pursuant to “WBC Rule 1.25 Vacant Title,” Klitschko was able to petition the WBC “to approve one voluntary defense, with the condition that the winner must meet his official challenger next.” The WBC granted the exception paving the way for Klitschko to meet Danny Williams on Dec. 11, 2004.

Hasim Rahman defeats Kali “Checkmate” Meehan in New York at Madison Square Garden in a WBC heavyweight championship elimination bout on Nov. 13, 2004, to become the WBC mandatory challenger.

Vitali Klitschko makes an optional defense against Danny Williams in Los Angeles on Dec. 11, 2004, winning by technical knockout in round eight.

Tom Loeffler, Klitschko’s promoter at K2 Promotions, states on Dec. 24, 2004, that Vitali’s hands “were badly swollen but not broken” after his fight with Williams and that the timetable for future bouts “depends on Vitali’s hands.”

Klitschko agrees in February 2005 to make a mandatory defense against Rahman on April 30, 2005, at New York’s Madison Square Garden.

The April 30, 2005, meeting is rescheduled to June 18, 2005, after Vitali suffers what is called a “thigh injury” while jogging.

Klitschko re-schedules this mandatory defense to July 23, 2005, claiming his thigh did not respond to treatment.

The July 23, 2005, re-scheduling is postponed yet again after Klitschko claims his thigh injury has spread to his back.

Klitschko undergoes what his handlers refer to as “minor back surgery,” on April 19, 2005.

“WBC Rule 1.27 Inactivity of a Champion” states: “When a world champion is:
inactive for more than six (6) months but less than one (1) year, for certified medical reasons, or for whatever legal impediment or other reason beyond his control is unable to defend his championship within the time periods prescribed by the Rules and Regulations, the WBC may determine an interim champion pursuant to Rule 1.25 hereof.”

Don King Productions successfully petitions the WBC in May 2005 to sanction for its interim heavyweight championship on Aug. 13, 2005, the match between WBC No. 1-ranked mandatory challenger Hasim Rahman and WBC No. 2-ranked, and No. 2 mandatory challenger, Monte “Two Gunz” Barrett pursuant to WBC Rule 1.27.

Don King implores Klitschko to face Rahman on Aug. 13, avoiding the necessity of the interim championship bout. Klitschko claims he cannot be ready to fight by Aug. 13. After Rahman and Barrett sign to fight each other, it is leaked to the media that Klitschko suddenly recovers to the extent that he is fit to fight on HBO Sept. 24.

Klitschko’s hand-picked opponent, Oleg Maskaev, is subsequently rejected by HBO as a suitable opponent according to media reports.

Klitschko subsequently petitions the WBC to allow him a second voluntary defense against Calvin Brock on Sept. 24, 2005. The WBC rejects Klitschko’s bid on July 15, 2005, and orders Vitali to face the winner of Rahman vs. Barrett.

Rahman wins unanimous decision over Barrett at the United Center in Chicago on Aug. 13, 2005, to become the WBC interim heavyweight champion.

The WBC announces on Aug. 17, 2005, that Klitschko will make his thrice-delayed mandatory defense against Rahman on Nov. 12, 2005, at the Thomas and Mack Center in Las Vegas.

Klitschko is reportedly “knocked down” and “banged up” by sparring partners during the first week in November to the extent he claims a knee injury. Two doctors fit Vitali with two different knee braces, but it was never reported that either physician determined that Klitschko’s apparent knee injury would prevent him from fighting on Nov. 12.

Vitali Klitschko himself makes the decision to pull out of the Rahman fight on Nov. 5, 2005.

“WBC Rule 1.28 Penalty on Inactivity by Champion (or Interim Champion)” states: “A champion (or an interim champion) not defending his title within one (1) year will lose his title.” Therefore, if Klitschko is not able to face Rahman by Dec. 11, 2005, (one year since Klitschko last defended his title against Danny Williams), the WBC must, by its own Rules and Regulations, strip him of his title. Furthermore:

“WBC Rule 1.29 Penalty on Refusal to Fight” states: “If any of both, the WBC Champion [Klitschko] and the interim champion [Rahman], is not willing to participate in a contest to have one sole undisputed champion in the division, he [Klitschko] will lose his portion of the title, with the willing champion [Rahman] becoming automatically, the undisputed WBC Champion of the division.” Therefore, the WBC must declare Rahman its heavyweight champion by Dec. 10, 2005, pursuant to rules 1.28 and 1.29, if it follows its own Rules and Regulations. Any deviation from the aforementioned Rules and Regulations would certainly leave the WBC open to needless and unnecessary lawsuits for obvious violations of its own Rules and Regulations.

“WBC Rule 1.21 Championship Defense Obligations” states: “b) Mandatory Defense Obligations. All WBC recognized champions are obligated to make at least one yearly mandatory defense against the designated official challenger [Rahman].” It further states: “Mandatory Defenses. A WBC champion is obligated to make at least one yearly mandatory defense against the designated official challenger [Rahman].”

Vitali Klitschko announces his retirement from boxing on Nov. 9, 2005

The WBC announces that Vitali Klitschko has been named “WBC heavyweight champion emeritus” on Nov. 17, 2005. A curious move for a supposedly retired fighter that facilitates Klitschko to unretire at any time and become the WBC’s mandatory challenger to the heavyweight champion.

The WBC holds a ceremony in Cancun, Mexico, on Dec. 20, 2005, where interim WBC heavyweight champion Hasim Rahman is named outright WBC heavyweight champion.

On Dec. 10, 2005, Vitali Klitschko announces that he will run for elected mayor of the Ukrainian capital of Kiev. He loses that bid on March 26, 2006.

Oleg Maskaev becomes WBC heavyweight champion after scoring a 12th-round technical knockout over Hasim Rahman on Aug. 12, 2006.

In January 2007 Vitali Klitschko announces his unretirement and petitions the WBC to leapfrog its heavyweight mandatory challenger Samuel “The Nigerian Nightmare” Peter, who had won two successive elimination bouts against James “Lights Out” Toney, to fight for the title against Oleg Maskaev. Klitschko’s promoters, fearing a legal challenge from Peter, promise millions to Peter to step aside, but the money to complete the deal does not materialize, and these plans are scrapped in April 2007.

Vitali announces on July 9, 2007, that he will fight Jameel “Big Time” McCline in Munich, Germany, on Sept. 22, 2007.

On Sept. 9, 2007, Vitali pulls out of his scheduled Sept. 22 fight with Jameel McCline claiming an apparent back injury, just not the previous apparent back injury that postponed a match with Rahman on July 23, 2005. This marked the fifth consecutive fight in a row where he was unable to participate in a scheduled match. His last boxing match where he showed up was in 2004.

Klitschko spokesman Tom Loeffler told ESPN.com, “He was doing his training when his back tightened up. It needed immediate surgery to relieve pressure on the nerve. It was just an unfortunate occurrence, but it’s not an uncommon injury.” Heavyweight contender DaVarryl “Touch of Sleep” Williamson sparred with Klitschko on the Sept. 4, Sept. 6 and Sept. 7, j one day prior to Klitschko’s supposed injury on Sept. 8.

Williamson said, “I don’t know what they [the Klitschko camp] anticipated from me [in sparring] but I will tell you they got their money’s worth,” Williamson said. “It was competitive on both sides. I sparred with Vitali on Tuesday, Thursday and Friday [Sept. 4, 6 and 7] and didn’t notice anything unusual,” Williamson said. “I didn’t know anything about his injury, which they said happened the next day on Saturday [Sept. 8]. I don’t know what happened between Friday and Saturday morning.”

What's the matter, you're out of topics and decided to bring back a thread from 2005? You're getting pathetic. And who the hell turned you green?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you mean QUITALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

What's the matter, you're out of topics and decided to bring back a thread from 2005? You're getting pathetic. And who the hell turned you green?

olympic drug testing committee tko 1 brittley
chris byrd tko 9 brittley
lennox lewis tko 6 brittley
training camp ko1 (5 times) Brittley

olympic drug testing committee tko 1 brittley
chris byrd tko 9 brittley
lennox lewis tko 6 brittley
training camp ko1 (5 times) Brittley

Defining obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD)

What is obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD)? Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder characterized by recurrent, unwanted, disturbing thoughts (obsessions) and/or repetitive, ritualized behaviors that a person feels driven to perform (compulsions). Like a needle getting stuck on an old LP, OCD causes the brain to get stuck on a particular thought or action that it just can’t let go. People with OCD often say the symptoms feel like a case of mental hiccups that won’t go away.

The Obsessive Compulsive Foundation reports that 1 in 50 adults in the United States currently experiences OCD, and twice as many have experienced it at some point in their lives. Symptoms of OCD occur in people of all ages and may change in severity over time. Most people with OCD have both obsessions and compulsions, but a minority have obsessions alone (about 20 percent) or compulsions alone (about 10 percent). Compulsions generally accompany obsessions as a result of the brain’s attempt to dismiss or neutralize the obsessions.
Understanding obsessions

What are obsessions? Obsessions are involuntary, seemingly uncontrollable thoughts, images, or impulses that occur over and over again in a person’s mind. The person does not want to have these ideas, finds them disturbing and intrusive, and usually recognizes that they don’t really make sense. They commonly crop up when someone is trying to focus on an intentional thought or activity.

People with OCD may worry excessively about dirt and germs and be obsessed with the idea that they are contaminated or may contaminate others. Or they may have obsessive fears of having inadvertently harmed someone else (perhaps while pulling the car out of the driveway), even though they usually know this is not realistic. Obsessions are accompanied by uncomfortable feelings, such as fear, disgust, doubt, or a sensation that things have to be done in a particular way.

Some common obsessions include:

* Fear of being contaminated by germs or dirt
* Fear of causing harm to oneself or others
* Intrusive sexually explicit or violent thoughts and images
* Excessive focus on religious or moral ideas



* Fear of losing or not having things you might need
* Order and symmetry: the idea that everything must line up “just right.”
* Superstitions: excessive attention to something considered lucky or unlucky

For a more detailed list of common obsessions, visit OCD symptom Inventory, and for a detailed discussion of how obsessions are experienced, visit Obsessions.
Understanding compulsions

What are compulsions? A compulsion is a repetitive behavior – a ritual – that a person feels driven to do and cannot seem to stop doing. Compulsions represent an attempt to manage an obsession by doing something to resolve it. For example, if someone is obsessed with being contaminated, that person might develop elaborate hand-washing rituals. If an obsessive worry is whether or not the door was locked, then a compulsive response might be to check the lock a certain number of times before leaving the house or going to bed.

The ritual is meant to bring relief from the anxiety caused by the obsession, though the ritual itself can cause anxiety if it becomes too demanding or time-consuming. Even if the ritual eases the discomfort caused by the obsession, it will probably return, and the person with OCD feels compelled to repeat the behaviors over and over again.

Some common compulsive behaviors are:

* excessive double-checking
* counting
* hand washing
* cleaning



* ordering/arranging
* touching
* praying
* hoarding

For a detailed list of common compulsions, visit OCD Symptom Inventory (scroll down to Compulsions on Page 3). For a fuller discussion of compulsion, visit Compulsions. For more information about compulsive hoarding, see Hoarding fact sheet.
Signs and symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD)

What are the signs and symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD)? Most people, from time to time, go back and double-check that the iron is unplugged or the door is locked before leaving the house. That’s normal, but when someone worries constantly that the door is unlocked and makes a ritual out of checking the lock 40 times before being able to get in the car, that’s an indication that the person’s thoughts and behaviors have risen to the degree of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). The adult with OCD recognizes his or her repetitive thoughts and behaviors as irrational but feels unable to break free from them.

OCD may be diagnosed when compulsive behaviors take up excessive time (an hour or more a day), begin to interfere with your normal activities, or cause great anxiety because they’re so demanding. See Symptoms for a more detailed description of OCD symptoms.

While the onset of obsessive compulsive disorder usually occurs during adolescence or young adulthood, younger children can manifest symptoms of OCD by showing the same behaviors adults with OCD exhibit.

It’s often misdiagnosed in youngsters and adults as another condition such as autism or is overlooked because it occurs with other disorders, such as depression, eating disorders, attention deficit disorders or Tourette’s syndrome. In addition, OCD is often underdiagnosed because people with OCD may feel embarrassed by their thoughts and behaviors and try (often successfully) to hide the signature behaviors of their condition or because they lack access to effective health care. On average, people with OCD see three to four doctors and spend over nine years seeking treatment before they receive a correct diagnosis. Studies have also found that it takes an average of seventeen years from the time OCD begins for people to obtain appropriate treatment.

For a fuller discussion of recognizing OCD in children and adolescents, see Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder in Children and Adolescents (general overview) and When Your Child Has Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (specific advice).

Defining obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD)

What is obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD)? Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder characterized by recurrent, unwanted, disturbing thoughts (obsessions) and/or repetitive, ritualized behaviors that a person feels driven to perform (compulsions). Like a needle getting stuck on an old LP, OCD causes the brain to get stuck on a particular thought or action that it just can’t let go. People with OCD often say the symptoms feel like a case of mental hiccups that won’t go away.

The Obsessive Compulsive Foundation reports that 1 in 50 adults in the United States currently experiences OCD, and twice as many have experienced it at some point in their lives. Symptoms of OCD occur in people of all ages and may change in severity over time. Most people with OCD have both obsessions and compulsions, but a minority have obsessions alone (about 20 percent) or compulsions alone (about 10 percent). Compulsions generally accompany obsessions as a result of the brain’s attempt to dismiss or neutralize the obsessions.
Understanding obsessions

What are obsessions? Obsessions are involuntary, seemingly uncontrollable thoughts, images, or impulses that occur over and over again in a person’s mind. The person does not want to have these ideas, finds them disturbing and intrusive, and usually recognizes that they don’t really make sense. They commonly crop up when someone is trying to focus on an intentional thought or activity.

People with OCD may worry excessively about dirt and germs and be obsessed with the idea that they are contaminated or may contaminate others. Or they may have obsessive fears of having inadvertently harmed someone else (perhaps while pulling the car out of the driveway), even though they usually know this is not realistic. Obsessions are accompanied by uncomfortable feelings, such as fear, disgust, doubt, or a sensation that things have to be done in a particular way.

Some common obsessions include:

* Fear of being contaminated by germs or dirt
* Fear of causing harm to oneself or others
* Intrusive sexually explicit or violent thoughts and images
* Excessive focus on religious or moral ideas



* Fear of losing or not having things you might need
* Order and symmetry: the idea that everything must line up “just right.”
* Superstitions: excessive attention to something considered lucky or unlucky

For a more detailed list of common obsessions, visit OCD symptom Inventory, and for a detailed discussion of how obsessions are experienced, visit Obsessions.
Understanding compulsions

What are compulsions? A compulsion is a repetitive behavior – a ritual – that a person feels driven to do and cannot seem to stop doing. Compulsions represent an attempt to manage an obsession by doing something to resolve it. For example, if someone is obsessed with being contaminated, that person might develop elaborate hand-washing rituals. If an obsessive worry is whether or not the door was locked, then a compulsive response might be to check the lock a certain number of times before leaving the house or going to bed.

The ritual is meant to bring relief from the anxiety caused by the obsession, though the ritual itself can cause anxiety if it becomes too demanding or time-consuming. Even if the ritual eases the discomfort caused by the obsession, it will probably return, and the person with OCD feels compelled to repeat the behaviors over and over again.

Some common compulsive behaviors are:

* excessive double-checking
* counting
* hand washing
* cleaning



* ordering/arranging
* touching
* praying
* hoarding

For a detailed list of common compulsions, visit OCD Symptom Inventory (scroll down to Compulsions on Page 3). For a fuller discussion of compulsion, visit Compulsions. For more information about compulsive hoarding, see Hoarding fact sheet.
Signs and symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD)

What are the signs and symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD)? Most people, from time to time, go back and double-check that the iron is unplugged or the door is locked before leaving the house. That’s normal, but when someone worries constantly that the door is unlocked and makes a ritual out of checking the lock 40 times before being able to get in the car, that’s an indication that the person’s thoughts and behaviors have risen to the degree of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). The adult with OCD recognizes his or her repetitive thoughts and behaviors as irrational but feels unable to break free from them.

OCD may be diagnosed when compulsive behaviors take up excessive time (an hour or more a day), begin to interfere with your normal activities, or cause great anxiety because they’re so demanding. See Symptoms for a more detailed description of OCD symptoms.

While the onset of obsessive compulsive disorder usually occurs during adolescence or young adulthood, younger children can manifest symptoms of OCD by showing the same behaviors adults with OCD exhibit.

It’s often misdiagnosed in youngsters and adults as another condition such as autism or is overlooked because it occurs with other disorders, such as depression, eating disorders, attention deficit disorders or Tourette’s syndrome. In addition, OCD is often underdiagnosed because people with OCD may feel embarrassed by their thoughts and behaviors and try (often successfully) to hide the signature behaviors of their condition or because they lack access to effective health care. On average, people with OCD see three to four doctors and spend over nine years seeking treatment before they receive a correct diagnosis. Studies have also found that it takes an average of seventeen years from the time OCD begins for people to obtain appropriate treatment.

For a fuller discussion of recognizing OCD in children and adolescents, see Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder in Children and Adolescents (general overview) and When Your Child Has Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (specific advice).

i've already been diagnosed long ago and come to terms with OCD.

but thanks very much for caring about my health.

i've already been diagnosed long ago and come to terms with OCD.

but thanks very much for caring about my health.

Have you discussed your obsession with Vitali with your doctor? What do YOU think about it?

Have you discussed your obsession with Vitali with your doctor?

Just like Quitali's response when people told him to fight his mandatory, Hasim Rahman,

NYET!

vitali is underrated and will never get any credit.

wow didnt you read anoraks.
underrated!!!
yeah an underrated clown in the weak hvwt circus.

Geronimo gave me good K for this.... it was a bit pompous and wordy, but I'd forgotten I used to put so much effort in sometimes.