Heavyweight Tournement [Archive]

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sonnyboyx2

02-12-2010, 02:42 PM

Hyperthetical 8 man Heavyweight Tournement to give us something to discuss...All contestants are in their prime, please explain how you see these fights unfolding:

A/. Mike Tyson
B/. Joe Frazier
C/. Muhammad Ali
D/. George Foreman
E/. Vitali Klitschko
F/. Larry Holmes
G/. Evander Holyfield
H/. Lennox Lewis

ROUND 1

Fighter A vs Fighter H

Fighter B vs Fighter G

Fighter C vs Fighter F

Fighter D vs Fighter E

ROUND 2

Winner of A vs H vs Winner of D vs E

Winner of B vs G vs Winner of C vs F

FINAL

BritishBoxing92

02-12-2010, 02:46 PM

T3dBundy

02-12-2010, 03:06 PM

Jim Jeffries

02-12-2010, 03:22 PM

Round 2 : Tyson vs Foreman and Holyfield vs Ali

Final : Tyson vs Ali

Winner : Ali

i think ali is the best of all in that list.
if he had a bad chin, then i would have bet on tyson winning the tournament.

Tyson isn't beating Foreman, no way. Cus even told him so, probably why Mike avoided the senior version.

T3dBundy

02-12-2010, 04:16 PM

Tyson isn't beating Foreman, no way. Cus even told him so, probably why Mike avoided the senior version.

did u watch ron lyle vs foreman?

prime tyson has a good chance to beat foreman.

poet682006

02-12-2010, 05:33 PM

did u watch ron lyle vs foreman?

prime tyson has a good chance to beat foreman.

Not the same style matchup. Foreman is a stylistic nightmare for short-armed pressure fighters (hint: Tyson's a short-armed pressure fighter). Tyson may be light-years better than Lyle but Lyle isn't facing the same kind of style disadvantages as Tyson would be. "Styles make fights" is exaggeration but there ARE a small number of prohibitive stylistic matchups and Foreman versus pressure fighters happens to be one of those few.

Poet

crold1

02-12-2010, 08:12 PM

T3dBundy

02-12-2010, 08:18 PM

Not the same style matchup. Foreman is a stylistic nightmare for short-armed pressure fighters (hint: Tyson's a short-armed pressure fighter). Tyson may be light-years better than Lyle but Lyle isn't facing the same kind of style disadvantages as Tyson would be. "Styles make fights" is exaggeration but there ARE a small number of prohibitive stylistic matchups and Foreman versus pressure fighters happens to be one of those few.

Poet

i know foreman would usually beat styles like floyd pattersons and fraziers, but tyson hit harder + had a faster movement than both.
i see tyson hiding between foremans arms, nd throwing right uppercuts to the chin and when it gets toodangerous,he would use his fast footwork to get away.

crold1

02-12-2010, 08:21 PM

i know foreman would usually beat styles like floyd pattersons and fraziers, but tyson hit harder + had a faster movement than both.
i see tyson hiding between foremans arms, nd throwing right uppercuts to the chin and when it gets toodangerous,he would use his fast footwork to get away.

By most accounts of folks near Tyson, Foreman was the only fighter he never personally wanted any part of. Can't remember who the quote came from (maybe Rudy Gonzalez) but Tyson allegedly once told King, who was selling Tyson on a Foreman fight in China "You want him so bad, you fight him." Tyson was always a little bit of a head case even when he was on; if he had doubts, Foreman would have exploited them.

poet682006

02-12-2010, 08:32 PM

i know foreman would usually beat styles like floyd pattersons and fraziers, but tyson hit harder + had a faster movement than both.

Tyson's punching power isn't going to be an issue here and Frazier was no slouch in the power department. Tyson will still have to eat Foreman's bombs to get close enough to use his power. As an aside; Tyson faster than Patterson? No way.

i see tyson hiding between foremans arms, nd throwing right uppercuts to the chin and when it gets toodangerous,he would use his fast footwork to get away.

Tyson's footspeed was straight ahead not laterally or backwards. He isn't going to turn into Ali all of a sudden and dance away from Foreman's punches. Hiding between Foreman's arms? Naw. He gets to mid-range and George uses his superior strength to push Tyson back outside, probably with a bomb following close on it's heels: An old Foreman trick (he tried it on Ali in fact).

Poet

T3dBundy

02-12-2010, 08:43 PM

patterson had a faster handspeed, tyson had a faster footwork.

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2:10 - 2:17

tyson doesnt need to take shots to get inside and start landing clean punches on foreman.

poet682006

02-12-2010, 08:51 PM

T3dBundy

02-12-2010, 08:57 PM

Newsflash: That ain't George Foreman he's in there with in that vid.....not even remotely in the ballpark. That's Reggie Fvcking Gross: A tomato can.

Poet

and?
he cant hit tyson clean, can he ?
foreman was never that much skilled, he had more power than any other heavyweight ever, thats why he beat frazier and norton so bad.
but with tyson he has someone on the same lvl powerwise, and i think u would agree tyson had better boxing skills than foreman.

poet682006

02-12-2010, 09:16 PM

and? he cant hit tyson clean, can he ?
foreman was never that much skilled, he had more power than any other heavyweight ever, thats why he beat frazier and norton so bad.

I think you're shortchanging Foreman in the skills department. There's a huge gulf between the skills of Foreman and the skills of Gross and it makes a huge difference when it comes to hitting an opponent.

i think u would agree tyson had better boxing skills than foreman.

He was somewhat more skilled than Foreman but let's not get carried away and start anointing Tyson with skills on the level of say a Holmes or an Ali. Tyson is a skilled fighter but he's not THAT skilled a fighter.

Poet

Jim Jeffries

02-12-2010, 09:24 PM

did u watch ron lyle vs foreman?

prime tyson has a good chance to beat foreman.

Great fight, lots of action. You see Tyson/Douglas? Tyson/Holyfield?

By most accounts of folks near Tyson, Foreman was the only fighter he never personally wanted any part of. Can't remember who the quote came from (maybe Rudy Gonzalez) but Tyson allegedly once told King, who was selling Tyson on a Foreman fight in China "You want him so bad, you fight him." Tyson was always a little bit of a head case even when he was on; if he had doubts, Foreman would have exploited them.

I always wondered why he was fighting a can like Douglas when he had Holyfield and Foreman waiting in the wings.

T3dBundy

02-12-2010, 09:29 PM

Jim Jeffries

02-12-2010, 09:47 PM

i just know tyson is the youngest heavyweight champion of all time for a reason.
and btw. tyson had a way better head movement than holmes.
thats why im not sure about holmes having more skills than tyson.

By a few months on Floyd Patterson. Didn't really help Floyd much when he got in the ring with Liston, now did it?

T3dBundy

02-12-2010, 09:55 PM

By a few months on Floyd Patterson. Didn't really help Floyd much when he got in the ring with Liston, now did it?

liston was like a hungry lion in the first fight vs floyd patterson, he had waited enough for a title-fight.
tyson was a better version of patterson, he had the better genetics.
i also think sonny liston was a better boxer than foreman, so i dont know how he would be able to fight like liston.
liston would try to keep tyson away with his long arms and knock him out in the late rounds.
foremans skill lvl wouldnt allow him to do what liston could do against tyson or did to patterson

crold1

02-12-2010, 10:04 PM

Great fight, lots of action. You see Tyson/Douglas? Tyson/Holyfield?

I always wondered why he was fighting a can like Douglas when he had Holyfield and Foreman waiting in the wings.

That was all King doing business. Tyson wanted to go straight to Holy and didn't care to fight Douglas (I know this can be found in Gonzalez's book...great story about a limo chase for Tyson's attention).

Far as Foreman...I buy that Mike didn't like that fight. He was a deep student of the game; something he didn't like about even the old George. Young or old, George could hit and had one of the great Heavyweight jabs ever.

Fighting Marine

02-12-2010, 10:56 PM

geribeetus

02-13-2010, 12:32 AM

i'm probably the only one who'd give vitali a good shot against foreman with his chin and seemingly limitless stamina. having the 2nd best plus/minus rating beaten only by mayweather by a few points, big klitschkos not the easiest guy in the world to hit. he's not gonna have to eat george's bombs to land punches of his own. foreman does have a longer reach, but not freakishly so. i give vitali at least a chance in hell.

now on to the tournament. tyson gets beat by steward's version of lewis. i think frazier does a bowe on holyfield after evander makes the mistake of not staying far away from joes left hook. ali over larry by comfortable decision. foreman and klitschko... id like to say vitali or that it's a pick em. even though i wouldn't bet my house on george, i'd bet whats in my wallet. he'd be throwing the hardest punches anyones ever aimed at vitalis head. if he thought the kicks he took back in the day were bad he'd be unpleasantly surprised by what big george is packin.

round 2. lennox lewis if he can stay away from george, and i think he could over 12 rounds. probably not over 15. too bad this is 2010 cuz my heart wants foreman to win.
i'm not sure what how much red k this next sentence is gonna get me but here goes...prime frazier takes it to ali 6 or 7 times out of 10.

frazier and lewis. the first few rounds are really hard on joe, but if he can catch up with a slightly slower-of-foot ali, he'll catch up to lewis and it'll end a lot worse for lewis than ali. joe makes lennox take a long nap before we see the 10th round. i believe joes chin was a lot better than it looked against foreman and lewis doesn't throw what foreman can throw. i've got a lot of faith that joe would be all over lewis.

so imo frazier wins the tournament, but he got a good draw. i think he'd always lose to foreman, just not as disastrously as we've seen it happen in real life. tyson might also be a bad matchup for frazier and i honestly wouldn't count out vitali against him. not completely at least. how often have we seen big swarmers against little swarmers? granted i'd be a lot more afraid of fraziers swarms than vitalis.

mame09

02-13-2010, 09:43 PM

the final match will be against frazier vs foreman and we all know how that turned out

sonnyboyx2

02-15-2010, 10:32 AM

not a mention of Lennox Lewis, everyone who has posted on this topic is of the same opinion (myself included) in that Tyson beats Lewis in the opening round of this tournement... the vast majority also feel that it would be a Foreman vs Ali final.

crold1

02-15-2010, 10:37 AM

macthechamp

02-15-2010, 12:46 PM

Round 1

Tyson beats Lewis
Holyfield beats Frazier
Ali beats Holmes
Foreman beats Klitschko

Round 2

Tyson beats Foreman
Ali beats Holyfield

Final

Ali beats Tyson

Winner: Ali