We will start with Johns first bid at the WBA title.
1. 2000-08 lost to a shot 37 and 10 month old Holyfield by UD
2. 2001-03 A win over a 38 year old shot Holy.
3. 2001-12 a DRAW to a very shot Holy..who was 39 years old.
4. 2002-07 a win by DQ in a very close fight.
5. 2003-03 a loss to a former middleweight ( 2x only in history)
6. 2003-12 a win over Rahman ( one fight and he is given back his belt).
7. 2004-04 a win over Oquendo who is 2-2 in his last 4.
8.2004-11 a win over Golota ( 114-111, 114-111, 113-112) Ruiz is knocked down 2x in the second and deducted 1 pt in the 4 th...114-111 ??????
9. 2005-04 a UD loss to Toney...then changed to NC...
This is the record of a champ?.....It is no wonder the public is ignoring the heavyweight division with losers like Ruiz as the title holders.

Ruiz the true champ and future hall of famer. Go Ruiz!

We will start with Johns first bid at the WBA title.
1. 2000-08 lost to a shot 37 and 10 month old Holyfield by UD
2. 2001-03 A win over a 38 year old shot Holy.
3. 2001-12 a DRAW to a very shot Holy..who was 39 years old.
4. 2002-07 a win by DQ in a very close fight.
5. 2003-03 a loss to a former middleweight ( 2x only in history)
6. 2003-12 a win over Rahman ( one fight and he is given back his belt).
7. 2004-04 a win over Oquendo who is 2-2 in his last 4.
8.2004-11 a win over Golota ( 114-111, 114-111, 113-112) Ruiz is knocked down 2x in the second and deducted 1 pt in the 4 th...114-111 ??????
9. 2005-04 a UD loss to Toney...then changed to NC...
This is the record of a champ?.....It is no wonder the public is ignoring the heavyweight division with losers like Ruiz as the title holders..


You can very easily make all 4 champions' recent resume look bad. The fact that you included wins on his hall of shame shows that you don't have a whole lot to back you up, but there's not a heavyweight champion with a flawless record. Byrd has a dubious decision over Oquendo, a draw with Golota, and an almost-lost to McCline. Brewster has a loss to Cliff Etienne and a should-have lost to Kali Meehan. Vitali's too most "impressive" fights were two TKO losses that his fans rationalize, but are nevertheless losses. His last three fights have been against slow, out of shape guys who thought the best way to fight him was to stand in front of him and let him land at will.

We could make a list of all the other "top" guys's flaws right now, too. Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Lance Whitaker, James Toney, Wlad Klitschko, Andrew Golota, Hasim Rahman - all have some not-so-impressive marks on their record.

And the undefeateds, Joe Mesi, Calvin Brock, Sam Peter, Nicolay Valuev, Audley Harrison - have A LOT to prove.

It's become a little too trendy to trash Ruiz lately. People who dis him on threads have become caricatures of others who have done it before. And then when The Pretender takes the extreme other side, people call for his banning.

We get it - the majority love Wlad and hate Ruiz. They like Vitali but most think Tyson is shot. Okay, move onto another topic...

You must love to play the devils advocate.....pretender...but Im looking for some real opinions...sorry

neils I didnt think I needed to spoon feed the obvious but I will for you. Ruiz has fought 9 times for, or to hold the WBA titil and out of 9 fights he has only won 4 ( he lost to Golota )....as for the other belt holders only 1 has a "true" record and thats VK. We shall see if VK is a real champ but its clear Byrd and esp. Ruiz are not.

You must love to play the devils advocate.....pretender...but Im looking for some real opinions...sorry

You need to listen to Neils. And all you need is to read my "15 Reasons" thread to learn what a great champ Ruiz is.

Too funny one thread on Ruiz and Im in the red.....Who knew he was so loved....I'll pass on the boring Devils advocate thread.

The "obvious" wasn't so obvious to me. Not only did Golota only win two rounds on my card, but he should have been penalized at least once for fouling, which he wasn't - and another two points for deliberately hitting Ruiz once he was down. He was lucky he was given 12 rounds to win the fight.

You'll end up in the red if you're close-minded and ****y with your opinions, especially when they are up for debate.

Vitali's list of opponents is only 3rd best of the 4 champions. It's superior to Brewster's, but not to Byrd's or Ruiz's. Vitali's best win of his career was probably Corrie Sanders - not exactly a legacy-maker there.

Top wins for Ruiz:

Andrew Golota
Fres Oquendo
Hasim Rahman
Kirk Johnson
Evander Holyfield
Tony Tucker

Byrd's best wins:

Jameel McCline
Fres Oquendo
Evander Holyfield
Vitali Klitschko
David Tua
Phil Jackson

Vitali's best wins

Danny Williams
Corrie Sanders
Kirk Johnson
Larry Donald
Herbie Hide
Vaughn Bean

Brewster's best wins

Wlad Klitschko
Kali Meehan



Much as I think he gets too much love on this site, the best heavyweight resume in terms of quality opponents beaten right now is someone without a belt - Wlad Klitschko:

Jameel McCline
Frans Botha
Ray Mercer
Chris Byrd
Monte Barrett
Axel Schulz

Point is, no one stands out right now in the heavyweight division. Why pick on one when all the top contenders are weak in terms of quality wins?

none of the champs are worth watching.

Vitali is hurt.

Rhaman is lazy.

Ruiz is boring.

Bryd hardly ever fights.

Brewster/ hardly ever fights/ isn't that good/ and doesn't have a real belt.

Tyson is shot.

Holyfield is shot.

Bowe is shot.

Golota has the heart of a pansy.

Or how about the new comers.

Nicolai Valuev
Sam Peter
Brock Whatever
Sergei Whatever
They are all worse than Wlad.

Wlad sucks right now / plus he will never fight his brother.

Ruiz and Byrd are both lame and thats a fact...But to attack me for one thread is just a joke. I never said the heavyweight division was great except Ruiz. The fact is Ruiz is destroying the heavyweight division with his extreme cheating and judges giving him the win when we all know he lost.Byrd is another thread...Out of 9 title fights and only 4 true wins, that puts Ruiz as the #1 paper champ! VK is the only possible champ in this division...and Im no VK fan but he is all we have so far.

Heavyweights in general suck serious ass right now. Viva 135 pound brilliance!

.


You can very easily make all 4 champions' recent resume look bad. The fact that you included wins on his hall of shame shows that you don't have a whole lot to back you up, but there's not a heavyweight champion with a flawless record. Byrd has a dubious decision over Oquendo, a draw with Golota, and an almost-lost to McCline. Brewster has a loss to Cliff Etienne and a should-have lost to Kali Meehan. Vitali's too most "impressive" fights were two TKO losses that his fans rationalize, but are nevertheless losses. His last three fights have been against slow, out of shape guys who thought the best way to fight him was to stand in front of him and let him land at will.

We could make a list of all the other "top" guys's flaws right now, too. Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Lance Whitaker, James Toney, Wlad Klitschko, Andrew Golota, Hasim Rahman - all have some not-so-impressive marks on their record.

And the undefeateds, Joe Mesi, Calvin Brock, Sam Peter, Nicolay Valuev, Audley Harrison - have A LOT to prove.

It's become a little too trendy to trash Ruiz lately. People who dis him on threads have become caricatures of others who have done it before. And then when The Pretender takes the extreme other side, people call for his banning.

We get it - the majority love Wlad and hate Ruiz. They like Vitali but most think Tyson is shot. Okay, move onto another topic...
WoW Neils...
This is the first time I must say I completely agree with you...
Very well put!

Ruiz the true champ and future hall of famer. Go Ruiz!

wtf? do u really like Ruiz or are u just pretending?? you are not human if u like Ruiz..

he will never fight his brother.
And what's wrong with that???
Or do you think its civil for a family to break each other's bones and hit one another in the face?
I'm sorry.. Nobility, Fame, Reputation, Money, Respect all of that put together, but Family values come first.
Sorry Brother, lame thought

What can I say neils you must love Ruiz...sorry but he is the worst heavyweight since Seldon. As to the Ruiz top wins lets get real, Tucker..OMG how old was he 50?? and Golota..what fight were you watching, you gave him 2 rounds out of 12 hahahaha...you need to be fair to all the fighters and not just give every round to who you like. Holyfield was old when he fought Ruiz and Ruiz could only go 1-1-1 with him. I will give him Rahman, he did win that fight so Ruiz has beaten 1 legit fighter...and lost to 2 middleweights. This thread is not about the records of the entire division so Im not sure where you are going with that...Ruiz is a bum and his record is a joke, and thats all this thread is about. And as far as the red, I could give a sh_ _. I love boxing and enjoy talking about it, if people want to hate, so be it, I still love boxing and enjoy a conversation with true boxing fans.

I don't "love" any heavyweight fighter. I just think it's trendy to bag on the guy who holds a lot, when there's not a whole lot of material to support your arguments.

I listed the top 6 wins of the three champs other than Brewster's, who just happened to be the sacrificial lamb for Wlad that backfired. That's how Tucker got on the list. I'm not sold on the legend of Vaughn Bean either, dude.

I watched the Ruiz fight at a buddy's house and was surprised when I came back home and logged on and saw that people on this site were calling it controversial.

Use the 'search forum' feature to find the thread I started that showed that other sites and the mainstream press weren't all that outraged. Golota vs. Byrd is a much stronger argument for a title fight that The Foul Pole should have won...

But I respect your right to express your opinions without trying to force my opinion on you. Stuff like "you have to agree that..." or "everyone knows that..." are written as facts, but they're really just your own personal viewpoints.

Ruiz's record supports my claim the he is " possibly" the worst heavyweight champ..I am not talking about the entire division in this thread and am not talking about the other belt holders. To say you respect someone is easy, to show it is another thing. I respect all boxing fans as well as people, and you and the devils advocate bashed me down into heavy red so its clear you have no respect for people who do not argee with you. But Im not 16, or in high school so I dont care about that silly stuff. I just enjoy talking to adults about the greatest sport the world will ever know. It's a great thing that people can talk about the sport they love, with people all over the world.

Ruiz's record supports my claim the he is " possibly" the worst heavyweight champ..I am not talking about the entire division in this thread and am not talking about the other belt holders. To say you respect someone is easy, to show it is another thing. I respect all boxing fans as well as people, and you and the devils advocate bashed me down into heavy red so its clear you have no respect for people who do not argee with you. But Im not 16, or in high school so I dont care about that silly stuff. I just enjoy talking to adults about the greatest sport the world will ever know. It's a great thing that people can talk about the sport they love, with people all over the world.
Lamon Brewster has only beaten one Top 10 guy in his career. How can Ruiz be the worst champ?

Number one he has no history as "the champ"...it's his first title defence
Number two The WBO is not really considered as a true top belt holder.

Number one he has no history as "the champ"...it's his first title defence
Number two The WBO is not really considered as a true top belt holder.
The WBO is increasingly mentioned in with the big 3 anymore...*********.com lists it in their rankings; HBO and Showtime observe the titles - guys like Diego Corrales, Joe Calzaghe, and Bernard Hopkins hold WBO belts.

The WBA is increasingly losing credibility with Don King's guys always ranked, stripping "super" champs of their belts and declaring titles vacant, etc.

Lamon Brewster's first title defense was Kali Meehan. That gives your guy, Vitali, exactly the same amount of title defenses. 1 = 1.

So if you disqualify Brewster from contention, then you have to disqualify Vitali. Which makes this a thread of "who is better - Byrd or Ruiz..."

Tyson and Lewis never held the WBO belt...If a boxer holds this belt and is considered the "champ" he also holds more legit belts. The WBO belt may be a legit belt some day, but as of now it's a distant fourth.As far as who is better or worse in the heavyweight division...well thats not what this thread is about. Feel free to start you're owne thread about that topic.

We will start with Johns first bid at the WBA title.
1. 2000-08 lost to a shot 37 and 10 month old Holyfield by UD
2. 2001-03 A win over a 38 year old shot Holy.
3. 2001-12 a DRAW to a very shot Holy..who was 39 years old.
4. 2002-07 a win by DQ in a very close fight.
5. 2003-03 a loss to a former middleweight ( 2x only in history)
6. 2003-12 a win over Rahman ( one fight and he is given back his belt).
7. 2004-04 a win over Oquendo who is 2-2 in his last 4.
8.2004-11 a win over Golota ( 114-111, 114-111, 113-112) Ruiz is knocked down 2x in the second and deducted 1 pt in the 4 th...114-111 ??????
9. 2005-04 a UD loss to Toney...then changed to NC...
This is the record of a champ?.....It is no wonder the public is ignoring the heavyweight division with losers like Ruiz as the title holders.

this is your first post...

Tyson and Lewis never held the WBO belt...If a boxer holds this belt and is considered the "champ" he also holds more legit belts. The WBO belt may be a legit belt some day, but as of now it's a distant fourth.As far as who is better or worse in the heavyweight division...well thats not what this thread is about. Feel free to start you're owne thread about that topic.

...then you do this one

If it doesn't include the other champions, then what is it about?

How can you say Ruiz is the worst without comparing him to the others?

When you list the top fighters beat for each champ that puts much in perspective. I am impressed that Byrd defeated Tua, I'd like to watch that bout someday. I didn't realize Vitali's roster was so padded with nobodies. You're right Wlad's list is pretty impressive. Brewster is yet to be proven however.

Not sure if I agree Botha is impressive since he was blown up after his performance against a shot Tyson.

Ok one more time, this post is called " Ruiz hall of shame"...all Im saying ( and Im new to this fourm so mabey Im reiterating old posts) is that Ruiz has fought 9x for, or defending and has only won 4 out of 9 fights and thats is a sad example of a "champ".

Ok one more time, this post is called " Ruiz hall of shame"...all Im saying ( and Im new to this fourm so mabey Im reiterating old posts) is that Ruiz has fought 9x for, or defending and has only won 4 out of 9 fights and thats is a sad example of a "champ".

I expect to see a similar one if Golota wins then, because his record in title fights is atrocious

also he won 5 fights, and the ninth one isn't official in the books. That makes 5/8...

Tyson and Lewis never held the WBO belt...If a boxer holds this belt and is considered the "champ" he also holds more legit belts. The WBO belt may be a legit belt some day, but as of now it's a distant fourth.As far as who is better or worse in the heavyweight division...well thats not what this thread is about. Feel free to start you're owne thread about that topic.

*********.com would disagree with you on this regarding Joe Calzaghe at 168

I have posted 1 thread, and you and the devils advocate have attacked me. Golota and his fight record is another story.You can post another thread about that if you want. As I have said many times this thread is just about Ruiz and his sad record.

Ruiz 5-1 for heavyweight title defenses. He's a champ. Against great fighters too.

more like 4 wins 4 lost...Ruiz is the king of steroids and he still sucks.

Point is, no one stands out right now in the heavyweight division. Why pick on one when all the top contenders are weak in terms of quality wins?

Because Ruiz is the least skilled fighter out there. He wins by clinching, rabbit punching, pretending to be hurt by a crotch shot and rolling around waiting for a DQ. Sugar Ray Robinson, if he were still alive today, would laugh if someone said Ruiz is a great champion.

Here's some facts : Ruiz would lose to both Toney and Jones rematch. He will lose Tyson and Tua. He will lose to Byrd coz he's fleet footed and actually has skills, unlike Ruiz.

Who has Ruiz beaten? Are they great? No. Only Holyfield....war torn and old, is his best win and it's a hollow victory at best. Ruiz is a pretender, a wrestler and a bum.

Because Ruiz is the least skilled fighter out there. He wins by clinching, rabbit punching, pretending to be hurt by a crotch shot and rolling around waiting for a DQ. Sugar Ray Robinson, if her were still alive today, would laugh if someone said Ruiz is a great champion.

Here's some facts : Ruiz would lose to both Toney and Jones rematch. He will lose Tyson and Tua. He will lose to Byrd coz he's fleet footed and actually has skills, unlike Ruiz.

Who has Ruiz beaten? Are they great? No. Only Holyfield....war torn and old, is his best win and it's a hollow victory at best. Ruiz is a pretender, a wrestler and a bum.
what's funny is, a lot of people give Rahman a real chance to beat Vitali - and Ruiz beat Rahman.

A lot of people are picking Golota to beat Brewster. And Ruiz beat Rahman.

I guess we can't continue with ObtuseFan since apparently he has been banned...

what's funny is, a lot of people give Rahman a real chance to beat Vitali - and Ruiz beat Rahman.

A lot of people are picking Golota to beat Brewster. And Ruiz beat Rahman.

I guess we can't continue with ObtuseFan since apparently he has been banned...

The Rahman fight was a punch and clinch fest. It was an atrocious fight with very littl action. Golota beat Ruiz (put him down twice) but inexplicably lost on points. Oquendo? Who the hell has he beaten? Brewster didn't beat a Klitchko, Klitchko beat himself by not have an sort of stamina. Crikey, he barely managed a draw against the "Touch of Sleep" guy coz he was out of breath again. yet he's still leagues ahead of Ruiz as far as fighting skills go.

here's my thing with ruiz, he doesn't hold a win over anybody that was considered to be one of the top heavies at the time he fought him... fres, golota, rahman, holy, none of them were thought to be one of the best heavies when ruiz faced them.... the 3 times he did face top flight challenegs, he lost(rj,toney,tua)... how come ruiz has not unified with byrd for as long as they've both been champs?? why hasn't he fought lewis, vk, wlad, ike, mccline or sanders when they were all considered to be one of the top guys?

to punctuate my point, ruiz's toughest 3 challenges, the 3 times ruiz was the biggest underdog, he lost and lost badly, it wasnt even close, which clearly shows he's not the best heavy....

why hasn't he fought lewis, vk, wlad, ike, mccline or sanders when they were all considered to be one of the top guys?

to punctuate my point, ruiz's toughest 3 challenges, the 3 times ruiz was the biggest underdog, he lost and lost badly, it wasnt even close, which clearly shows he's not the best heavy....

L. Lewis would have proven nothing by beating Ruiz. It would have been a lose-lose situation in that people would have criticized him for picking an easy opponent and criticized the fight for being a complete bore. L. Lewis is an opportunistic fighter, he will not leave himself vulnerable by being aggressive so he will stand tall and jab all night if he has to. He's not the most exciting fighter either.

Don't get me wrong I hate Ruiz for his boring stlye, but it amazes me how everybody jumps all over Ruiz for not being a legitament top ranked Heavyweight yet theres guys like Hasim Rahman who everybody thinks is a great heavyweight. Rahman has ONE win against any top fighter. Maybe people should start discussing how Rahman after going winless in 4 straight fights after winning the title is next in line for a title shot.Who has he beaten since losing 4 in a row? Alfred Cole, Mario Cawley,Rob Calloway,Terrence Lewis,Kali Meehan. and that makes you the number 1 contender?

yeah, i agree rahman is overrated, that's why VK would have killed him.... i'm not sure he beats that other bum barrett

Don't get me wrong I hate Ruiz for his boring stlye, but it amazes me how everybody jumps all over Ruiz for not being a legitament top ranked Heavyweight yet theres guys like Hasim Rahman who everybody thinks is a great heavyweight. Rahman has ONE win against any top fighter. Maybe people should start discussing how Rahman after going winless in 4 straight fights after winning the title is next in line for a title shot.Who has he beaten since losing 4 in a row? Alfred Cole, Mario Cawley,Rob Calloway,Terrence Lewis,Kali Meehan. and that makes you the number 1 contender?

Coz he's not the champ? No one's disputing his debatable "lucky punch" over L. Lewis.

Coz he's not the champ? No one's disputing his debatable "lucky punch" over L. Lewis.

Lucky punch? Ha. Rahman kicked Lewis ass that fight. Lewis would never win because his dumb ass showed up at the high elevation locale only one week to the fight and had no time to get acclimated to the air. Rahman showed up one month ahead and got used to the low oxygen air. Then Rahman KTFO Lewis and made Lewis look like a journeyman.

That's what Lewis gets for being a boring jabbing whore.

Lucky punch? Ha. Rahman kicked Lewis ass that fight. Lewis would never win because his dumb ass showed up at the high elevation locale only one week to the fight and had no time to get acclimated to the air. Rahman showed up one month ahead and got used to the low oxygen air. Then Rahman KTFO Lewis and made Lewis look like a journeyman.

That's what Lewis gets for being a boring jabbing whore.


so its bad being a boring jabbing whore, but okay to be a even more boring jabbing and grabbing whore???

interesting.

I find Ruiz matches to be exciting. Better than a rollercoaster or skydiving.

I dont know if youre being sarcastic or not dude, but youre pretty funny. :P

I dont know if youre being sarcastic or not dude, but youre pretty funny. :P
The sad thing he is not being sarcastic..

The Pretender.. what do you do for a living?

The sad thing he is not being sarcastic..

The Pretender.. what do you do for a living?

I'm an HBO boxing analyst and full-time Ruiz fan.

this guy cant be serious, if he is he needs help bad.

I'm an HBO boxing analyst and full-time Ruiz fan.

As in you watch HBO fights on TV. That's like me saying "I'm a movie critic because I rent movies from Blockbuster!" :D

I'm an HBO boxing analyst and full-time Ruiz fan.
HBO you say?

Home Boxing Observer?

you know the heavyweight division is pretty sad when you can have aguy like ruiz ranked in the top ten.to me none of these guys that are in the top ten or has a belt shouldnt be in a boxing ring at all.the only one that has any type of skill is byrd and i think he ought to move down to light heavy be cause he is just not interresting to watch fight at heavy.toney has the best skill in the heavies but he is just not a real heavy to me.wlad has skill but his chin and his heart is questionable.as for all the other bums in the division they are tomato cans.if a real heavy condenter fought the great white hope v.klit,klit would get beat easy.he has no boxing skills in the ring.the only thing he has going for him is that he is big and white..and before everybody starts saying that im a racist for the record im white.the boxing fans of united staes have been wanting a white heavyweight champ since rocky marciano...and for the person who said that the klit brothers shouldnt fight each other is a retard.hey this is boxing .if you are ranked #1 and your bro is the champ then hell yea you should fight each other.if they dont want to fight each other one should drop weight and go to another division.right now the state of the heavyweight division is a joke.none of these fighters names should not be put in the same sentence as some of the real greats of the heavies.

Vitali is the best heavyweight, period. He is the only one winning his fights convincingly. Question his opposition if you want, but the other top heavyweights are barely beating or LOSING to equally or even moreso "unimpressive" foes. Those "unimpressive" foes were picked by many to beat Klitschko (especially Sanders).

Vitali has flaws, as does everyone, but he is clearly the best right now...like it or not.

Ruiz gets a bad rap. He got abused by Roy and that took a good bit out of him physically and emotionally. Ever since he has come in his fights fat and out of shape, but still won. He still hung with Toney in a competitive fight (even though Toney was out of shape himself).

yea your right.vit clits is the best of the bums right now.and who in their right mind would have sanders (a over-weight golfer)beating vit.everybody is trying to upplay all of the bums that klit fights so that klits stock goes up.real boxing fans will aways know that the great white hype is nothing more that, hype.if toney had about 3 more inches in height he would make clit look like the clown that he is.**** toney might not even need the height.with his boxing skills he prolly could still beat the frankenstien...ruiz is just a bum..if there were any class act heavyweight fighters the great white hype and john the bum ruiz would be history.

if toney had about 3 more inches in height he would make clit look like the clown that he is.**** toney might not even need the height.with his boxing skills he prolly could still beat the frankenstien...ruiz is just a bum..if there were any class act heavyweight fighters the great white hype and john the bum ruiz would be history.

lol...right. Toney split the first 7-8 rounds with that "bum" Ruiz. Any "real" boxing fan wouldn't be dumb enough to call Vitali a bum. You don't like Vitali and that's fine, but that means your judgement is...obselete.

Any "real" boxing fan wouldn't be dumb enough to call Vitali a bum. You don't like Vitali and that's fine, but that means your judgement is...obselete.


dude i have more boxing exp and boxing knowledge in my little toe then you do in you whole stupid a s s body.dont question my judgement on the ruiz fight.toney prolly didnt even train for that fight. and still beat that bum ruiz.and whoever said anything about my likeing the big freak.i was just stating the obvious,that this guy is a bum.he is prolly the best of the bums right now but none the less still a bum.and i would give toney a damn good chance of beating vit....the guy has no ring skills at all.he only has his size and when somebody takes his size advantage away from he he will be exposed as the tomato can that he is.

lol...right. Toney split the first 7-8 rounds with that "bum" Ruiz. Any "real" boxing fan wouldn't be dumb enough to call Vitali a bum. You don't like Vitali and that's fine, but that means your judgement is...obselete.
Vitali hasn't been in with too many of the upper echelon of heavyweights. Two fights with opponents that fit into that category ended in Vitali being injured and losing by TKO. I wouldn't call the guy a bum, but I would think one would have to be concerned with the cut he suffered against Lewis and the fact that he didn't want to continue against Byrd (I won't go so far as to say he doesn't have heart, but there's no way Corrales quits on his stool in the same situation...)

It's also apparent during the rare occasions that someone gets inside and tags him that Vitali does not like to be pressured or backed up. A quick, smaller heavyweight that can move and get inside and land something could definitely bother him. He got rocked pretty well by Sanders before Corrie's poor training became very evident a couple rounds into the fight. He also had a tense moment against Williams when he was back against the ropes.

This is probably why people give Rahman a good shot to beat him; if this wasn't a freak occurrence in the fight, but a regular threat, it would be a very interesting 12 rounds. This is also where Tyson could beat Vitali; but after 3 rounds, if the champ isn't out of there I can't see Iron Mike pulling out what would be an upset in 2005/6.

Vitali's recent opponents have been praised for being able to take so much punishment, at least in the Williams and Sanders fights, but how about being praised for being able to avoid some of that punishment and actually put up a fight for more than a few seconds per round?

dude i have more boxing exp and boxing knowledge in my little toe then you do in you whole stupid a s s body.dont question my judgement on the ruiz fight.toney prolly didnt even train for that fight. and still beat that bum ruiz.and whoever said anything about my likeing the big freak.i was just stating the obvious,that this guy is a bum.he is prolly the best of the bums right now but none the less still a bum.and i would give toney a damn good chance of beating vit....the guy has no ring skills at all.he only has his size and when somebody takes his size advantage away from he he will be exposed as the tomato can that he is.

Toney's a fat sack of **** who can't fight without his steroids helping out. Even when he was juiced he still was fighting a draw with Ruiz for more than half the fight, despite Ruiz not even using his killer clinch style. Toney's a bum who would get slapped down like a ***** by Ruiz in a rematch and wouldnt last 3 rounds with Vitali.

Toney's a fat sack of **** who can't fight without his steroids helping out. Even when he was juiced he still was fighting a draw with Ruiz for more than half the fight, despite Ruiz not even using his killer clinch style. Toney's a bum who would get slapped down like a ***** by Ruiz in a rematch and wouldnt last 3 rounds with Vitali.

Toney beat Ruiz by a long shot. Even without the knockdown. With or without steroids. Ruiz has no skills. He's a pretender and a wrestler.

Ruiz the top fighter since Ali and future hall of famer. He the champ.

Ruiz the top fighter since Ali and future hall of famer. He the champ.

BWAHAH! You know that's a lie. Foreman? Frazier? Norton? Cooney? Holmes? Morrison? Tyson? All are not as good as Ruiz, the wrestler?

Vitali hasn't been in with too many of the upper echelon of heavyweights. Two fights with opponents that fit into that category ended in Vitali being injured and losing by TKO.

That's a pretty abrupt and simplistic way to call something. The fact that it ended in TKO doesn't not signify that he cannot cut it vs top guys. He was winning both fights when they were stopped, and that is important whether you think so or not. It's pretty hard for you to judge as you do not know how badly he was hurt in the Byrd fight. Additionally, he showed his willingness to continue vs Lewis after taking some heavy punches with the best havyweight at the time. Vitali took that fight on very short notice also.

It's also apparent during the rare occasions that someone gets inside and tags him that Vitali does not like to be pressured or backed up. A quick, smaller heavyweight that can move and get inside and land something could definitely bother him.

Why would a quick, small heavyweight bother Vitali? What quick and small heavyweight out there can beat Vitali? Toney would barely be able to reach Vitali's face if you are thinking of him, and Toney is not and never has been a pressure fighter. The only heavyweight who gave Vitali serious trouble was Lewis. Lewis is big and matched power and size with Klitschko.

He got rocked pretty well by Sanders before Corrie's poor training became very evident a couple rounds into the fight. He also had a tense moment against Williams when he was back against the ropes.

So what? Sanders hits hard and fast. Ask Rahman and Wlad. So what about the "tense" moment vs Wlliams (if there even was one)? Almost all fights have tense moments. Vitali thrashed Williams that whole fight and you cannot fault him for that. At least he's taking care of the people he is SUPPOSED to.

This is probably why people give Rahman a good shot to beat him; if this wasn't a freak occurrence in the fight, but a regular threat, it would be a very interesting 12 rounds. This is also where Tyson could beat Vitali; but after 3 rounds, if the champ isn't out of there I can't see Iron Mike pulling out what would be an upset in 2005/6.

Rahman is not that good...end of story. He is hardly ever in any better shape than Lewis was vs Vitali, and Lewis couldn't KO Vitali. Perhaps you expect another freakish cut? Rahman is a top 10 heavyweight but he hasn't done much to suggest he will be able to overcome Vitali. Tyson's punches are slower these days, will be coming from a long ways away from Vitali's head (giving Vitali plenty of time to react) and Tyson punches in wide loops and arcs as well as lacking combos. Some people give Rahman a good shot to beat Vitali...well I'd take that bet any day...easy money.

BWAHAH! You know that's a lie. Foreman? Frazier? Norton? Cooney? Holmes? Morrison? Tyson? All are not as good as Ruiz, the wrestler?

They are all on my waiting list for the Ruiz Fan Club.

Check out boxrec stats. Ruiz #2 ranked fighter in the world. Should be #1 but close enough.

That's a pretty abrupt and simplistic way to call something. The fact that it ended in TKO doesn't not signify that he cannot cut it vs top guys. He was winning both fights when they were stopped, and that is important whether you think so or not. It's pretty hard for you to judge as you do not know how badly he was hurt in the Byrd fight. Additionally, he showed his willingness to continue vs Lewis after taking some heavy punches with the best havyweight at the time. Vitali took that fight on very short notice also.



Why would a quick, small heavyweight bother Vitali? What quick and small heavyweight out there can beat Vitali? Toney would barely be able to reach Vitali's face if you are thinking of him, and Toney is not and never has been a pressure fighter. The only heavyweight who gave Vitali serious trouble was Lewis. Lewis is big and matched power and size with Klitschko.



So what? Sanders hits hard and fast. Ask Rahman and Wlad. So what about the "tense" moment vs Wlliams (if there even was one)? Almost all fights have tense moments. Vitali thrashed Williams that whole fight and you cannot fault him for that. At least he's taking care of the people he is SUPPOSED to.



Rahman is not that good...end of story. He is hardly ever in any better shape than Lewis was vs Vitali, and Lewis couldn't KO Vitali. Perhaps you expect another freakish cut? Rahman is a top 10 heavyweight but he hasn't done much to suggest he will be able to overcome Vitali. Tyson's punches are slower these days, will be coming from a long ways away from Vitali's head (giving Vitali plenty of time to react) and Tyson punches in wide loops and arcs as well as lacking combos. Some people give Rahman a good shot to beat Vitali...well I'd take that bet any day...easy money.


an objective fan can see both a fighter's strenghts and weaknesses. That wasn't a hatred thread; only a brief explanation of why many of us aren't sold on this guy as THE MAN yet. That's not saying it won't happen, just that Vitali may be fortunate to have gotten Lewis after he should have retired, have inherited a weak division, and picked from the middle of the Top 15 (and in the Williams case, the middle of the Top 50) for opponents...

look i know it aint vit's fault that he is in an era of a very weak heavyweights.but alot of people are looking at this guy like he is on the level of an ali,fraiser,marcino,holyfield,lewis or joe louis.this guy is just an average fighter.he really dont have any skills at all.he fights flat footed has no defence,robotic movment and his power really isnt that great.his younger brother is the better of the 2 but i dont think he will ever be back into form that he was before the sanders fight.if somebody would take away his size advantage in the ring he would be done for.just because he kinda held his own against an unmotivated,end of his career and out of shape lewis means nothing.the HW division is junk right now and i feel it is gonna be like that for awhile.as for ruiz he has less going for him than vit.all ruiz wants to do is dance with guys in the ring.**** im always expecting ruiz to grab the ref and take him for a waltz.

Ruiz the top fighter since Ali and future hall of famer. He the champ.
I find this thread so incredibly amuzing.
:omfg: :dance: :nutkick: :haha:

That's a pretty abrupt and simplistic way to call something. The fact that it ended in TKO doesn't not signify that he cannot cut it vs top guys. He was winning both fights when they were stopped, and that is important whether you think so or not. It's pretty hard for you to judge as you do not know how badly he was hurt in the Byrd fight. Additionally, he showed his willingness to continue vs Lewis after taking some heavy punches with the best havyweight at the time. Vitali took that fight on very short notice also.



Why would a quick, small heavyweight bother Vitali? What quick and small heavyweight out there can beat Vitali? Toney would barely be able to reach Vitali's face if you are thinking of him, and Toney is not and never has been a pressure fighter. The only heavyweight who gave Vitali serious trouble was Lewis. Lewis is big and matched power and size with Klitschko.



So what? Sanders hits hard and fast. Ask Rahman and Wlad. So what about the "tense" moment vs Wlliams (if there even was one)? Almost all fights have tense moments. Vitali thrashed Williams that whole fight and you cannot fault him for that. At least he's taking care of the people he is SUPPOSED to.



Rahman is not that good...end of story. He is hardly ever in any better shape than Lewis was vs Vitali, and Lewis couldn't KO Vitali. Perhaps you expect another freakish cut? Rahman is a top 10 heavyweight but he hasn't done much to suggest he will be able to overcome Vitali. Tyson's punches are slower these days, will be coming from a long ways away from Vitali's head (giving Vitali plenty of time to react) and Tyson punches in wide loops and arcs as well as lacking combos. Some people give Rahman a good shot to beat Vitali...well I'd take that bet any day...easy money.
what makes some of you guys think that lewis couldn't have cut klitchko to pieces if they fought for a second time anyway?. it seems pretty basic logic that if he did it once he could certainly do it again, regardless if he was losing on points. and remember there was plenty of rounds to go in that fight as well, so if klitchko was in that state after 6 rounds what would he be like after 9 or 10? getting cut is a big weakness, which leads to you LOSING, it dosn't matter if your winning the fight. of course i don't deny that lewis was also in a bad state, but not in terms of cuts