You know what I find funny? The fact that people are forgetting that although it does seem that James Toney took steroids that it wouldn't really change the outcome of the fight. :confused: Let me explain Toney may have taken roids but that doesn't kill the fact Toney beats Ruiz 9 times out of 10. This is terrible for boxing and the heavtyweight division. Those of you who are saying James Toney should be suspended for life obviously just hate him. Why you would hate James Toney and root for the most boring heavyweight of all time in John Ruiz is beyond me. I think if it does come out confirmed by the NYSAC that he did do this they should just have a rematch. A rematch is better for the sport than John Ruiz being champion again. C'mon you guys really want to see Norman Stone again!? :eek:

-Toney should be suspended and fined if found guilty.

You know what I find funny? The fact that people are forgetting that although it does seem that James Toney took steroids that it wouldn't really change the outcome of the fight. :confused: Let me explain Toney may have taken roids but that doesn't kill the fact Toney beats Ruiz 9 times out of 10. This is terrible for boxing and the heavtyweight division. Those of you who are saying James Toney should be suspended for life obviously just hate him. Why you would hate James Toney and root for the most boring heavyweight of all time in John Ruiz is beyond me. I think if it does come out confirmed by the NYSAC that he did do this they should just have a rematch. A rematch is better for the sport than John Ruiz being champion again. C'mon you guys really want to see Norman Stone again!? :eek:
If the only consequence of Toney's cheating is to have a rematch, then boxing as a sport will have failed. Toney shouldn't be banned for life, but he should receive some kind of suspension for taking steroids. Letting him have a rematch with Ruiz will make it seem like it's no big deal to cheat.

And how do you come to the conclusion that Toney is so much better than Ruiz. It's not like Toney dominated him in the fight. Without the BS "knockdown", Toney would have won the fight by maybe 1 round. Not enough to convince me that he would beat him 9 times out of 10. He barely beat him 1 time out of 1.

You know what you absolutley right Toney should be suspended and fined then there should be a rematch. I have to correct that.

These steroid allegations against Toney couldn't come at a worst time with baseball being in the spotlight for the same abuses. If Toney is proven to have to used steroids, it will be a huge emabaressment to himself and the sport. I think he should be suspended from boxing for period of time but not forever.We all make mistakes. As for a rematch, a don't think Toney deserves one because he cheated. Why appease him? I think Ruiz should take Toney's place in the scheduled bout with Byrd.

And how do you come to the conclusion that Toney is so much better than Ruiz. It's not like Toney dominated him in the fight. Without the BS "knockdown", Toney would have won the fight by maybe 1 round. Not enough to convince me that he would beat him 9 times out of 10. He barely beat him 1 time out of 1.

Because Toney is a great fighter and Ruiz isn't, plus you have to remember Toney would be better prepared if they fought again. You know what I think everyone is getting brain washed by the pretender that Ruiz is a great heavy. LOL! :D

These steroid allegations against Toney couldn't come at a worst time with baseball being in the spotlight for the same abuses. If Toney is proven to have to used steroids, it will be a huge emabaressment to himself and the sport. I think he should be suspended from boxing for period of time but not forever.We all make mistakes. As for a rematch, a don't think Toney deserves one because he cheated. Why appease him? I think Ruiz should take Toney's place in the scheduled bout with Byrd.

Great then Byrd can beat Ruiz!

If the only consequence of Toney's cheating is to have a rematch, then boxing as a sport will have failed. Toney shouldn't be banned for life, but he should receive some kind of suspension for taking steroids. Letting him have a rematch with Ruiz will make it seem like it's no big deal to cheat.

And how do you come to the conclusion that Toney is so much better than Ruiz. It's not like Toney dominated him in the fight. Without the BS "knockdown", Toney would have won the fight by maybe 1 round. Not enough to convince me that he would beat him 9 times out of 10. He barely beat him 1 time out of 1.


Exactly. If Toney is granted a rematch, it is telling the fighters that the worst thing that can happen is a rematch; there is really no incentive to not take steroids. I think its a shame that Toney did what he did (allegedly? this is still not being reported as fact on boxing central) but he should be punnished.

The fair way to do it, he should be stripped,as much as it pains me, give the belt back to Ruiz :mad: ,Toney would probably serve a suspension and after that come back and whip Ruiz without the Roids which i believe he can do!

If it's true, and he was on 'roids, it's hard to tell what may have happened.

Toney in best shape, still would have schooled Ruiz, more likely than not, but it's impossible to say. But it's also a moot point.

All boxing competitions are supposed to be as fair as they can be, in the currently lopsided landscape. Alot of people are saying Ruiz doesn't deserve the belt because of his style or the fact that he holds, and should be DQ'd, but the fact is he hasn't been. Up until this fight he's been recognized by the WBA as their champion, it's that plain.

Holding in a fight and roughhousing isn't the same as doping. You don't lose points for doping.

As for a rematch, if the WBA holds firm there's no real point. Toney can't compete for their belt for 2 years.

You guys think that Ruiz would win if Toney was off roids? LOL

Because Toney is a great fighter and Ruiz isn't, plus you have to remember Toney would be better prepared if they fought again. You know what I think everyone is getting brain washed by the pretender that Ruiz is a great heavy. LOL! :D
I never said Ruiz was a great fighter. I honestly hate the guy's style and wish I never had to witness one of his fights ever again. But reality is reality and Toney barely beat him. I think it's Toney that has everyone brainwashed after taking John "The Worst Champion Out There" to a unaminous decision. The speculation that Toney would be in better shape for a rematch is just that: speculation.

This is all a setup to keep John Ruiz in the title picture.

Don King poisoned James Toney's water bottle with the illegal roid.
He knew Toney would beat Ruiz.....& this is how he'll steal the win from him.

Suck on that, Wlad Klit fans !

Great then Byrd can beat Ruiz!

I'm all for that baby! ;)

I never said Ruiz was a great fighter. I honestly hate the guy's style and wish I never had to witness one of his fights ever again. But reality is reality and Toney barely beat him. I think it's Toney that has everyone brainwashed after taking John "The Worst Champion Out There" to a unaminous decision. The speculation that Toney would be in better shape for a rematch is just that: speculation.

If Ruiz takes Toney's place in the Byrd fight, Ruiz will lose again.

This is all a setup to keep John Ruiz in the title picture.

Don King poisoned James Toney's water bottle with the illegal roid.
He knew Toney would beat Ruiz.....& this is how he'll steal the win from him.

Suck on that, Wlad Klit fans !
If Don King was that influential on the outcome of that fight, Toney never would have gotten the decision to begin with. Nuff said.

If Ruiz takes Toney's place in the Byrd fight, Ruiz will lose again.


I dare Ruiz to fight the winner of the Brewster/Golota fight which will be Lamon. He is going to rid boxing of that hugging clown once and for all. This of course if Ruiz gets the belt back from Toney's conviction. Mega showdown in the future:

Vitali V.S. Brewster
Wlad V.S. Toney

If Don King was that influential on the outcome of that fight, Toney never would have gotten the decision to begin with. Nuff said.

Toney clearly won the fight

I dare Ruiz to fight the winner of the Brewster/Golota fight which will be Lamon. He is going to rid boxing of that hugging clown once and for all. This of course if Ruiz gets the belt back from Toney's conviction. Mega showdown in the future:

Vitali V.S. Brewster
Wlad V.S. Toney
If those two fights ever happen, it'd be tight as hell to put them on the same card.

Toney's 36, a suspension could end it for him. Although it would probably just be a WBA suspension. If he is suspended from all together i can't see him maintaining his fitnes through a prolonged suspension, it could be lights out on his career

Toney clearly won the fight
The Truth, yes he did win, yes he is a much better boxer than Ruiz..
And yes he doesn't need steroids to beat Ruiz.

What he does need steroids for is to allow him to do what he did for the full 12 rounds. Where are the guarantees that with his 233lb and 95% (I'm just making it up)body fat, he would have the endurance of going 12 rounds? He might have ran out of gas by 7/8 round. Who knows?

Agree?

The Truth, yes he did win, yes he is a much better boxer than Ruiz..
And yes he doesn't need steroids to beat Ruiz.

What he does need steroids for is to allow him to do what he did for the full 12 rounds. Where are the guarantees that with his 233lb and 95% (I'm just making it up)body fat, he would have the endurance of going 12 rounds? He might have ran out of gas by 7/8 round. Who knows?

Agree?


Your the man...someone finally got my point thank you Vdiary! :D good karma coming

Good point vdiary. Toney could beat Ruiz anyways if in shape, but at that weight he would benefit greatly from steroids in that he could go the distance with Ruiz. If Toney would have ran out of gas early on, Ruiz likely would have won a UD.

The Truth, yes he did win, yes he is a much better boxer than Ruiz..
And yes he doesn't need steroids to beat Ruiz.

What he does need steroids for is to allow him to do what he did for the full 12 rounds. Where are the guarantees that with his 233lb and 95% (I'm just making it up)body fat, he would have the endurance of going 12 rounds? He might have ran out of gas by 7/8 round. Who knows?

Agree?
that's a fairly logical assessment, a guy of that size and weight, along with his age would usually be expected to tire in the later rounds, so the drug taking would appear to make sense, if indeed he did take them

You know what you absolutley right Toney should be suspended and fined then there should be a rematch. I have to correct that.

not for life though..thats outrageous. Even Vargas was only suspended a few yr's right? I hope that it's all bull anyway, and that he didnt take them. I dont believe everything I hear from the losers camp..so when the right people provide the right proof, then I'll believe it.

not for life though..thats outrageous. Even Vargas was only suspended a few yr's right? I hope that it's all bull anyway, and that he didnt take them. I dont believe everything I hear from the losers camp..so when the right people provide the right proof, then I'll believe it.
That's what sucks about these steroid cases though. Although solid proof will probably never come out about this, the fact that it has been exposed to the public will leave a black mark on Toney for as long as he wears boxing gloves. Besides, even if doctors know about this and could come forward, people can be paid off so easily. As much money as doctors make in their profession, they could get paid a hell of a lot more if they just did the simple task of "shutting up". Not exactly as hard as performing an operation.

That's what sucks about these steroid cases though. Although solid proof will probably never come out about this, the fact that it has been exposed to the public will leave a black mark on Toney for as long as he wears boxing gloves. Besides, even if doctors know about this and could come forward, people can be paid off so easily. As much money as doctors make in their profession, they could get paid a hell of a lot more if they just did the simple task of "shutting up". Not exactly as hard as performing an operation.

Yeah, just what the sport needs, more bad press. Didnt they prove that Vargas was using? I mean, they had to do something like that cause of his suspension..You'd think if he was proven to have used them with the high profile he has that if Toney used them then he would too. Maybe I'm just a bit naive on the issue :o

Yeah, just what the sport needs, more bad press. Didnt they prove that Vargas was using? I mean, they had to do something like that cause of his suspension..You'd think if he was proven to have used them with the high profile he has that if Toney used them then he would too. Maybe I'm just a bit naive on the issue :o
Yes, you're right about Vargas. He did indeed get caught and suspended. Maybe these accusations are bogus, I wish they were, not because of Toney but because of boxing. Like you stated, boxing gets enough bad press and inattention already.

If the only consequence of Toney's cheating is to have a rematch, then boxing as a sport will have failed. Toney shouldn't be banned for life, but he should receive some kind of suspension for taking steroids. Letting him have a rematch with Ruiz will make it seem like it's no big deal to cheat.

And how do you come to the conclusion that Toney is so much better than Ruiz. It's not like Toney dominated him in the fight. Without the BS "knockdown", Toney would have won the fight by maybe 1 round. Not enough to convince me that he would beat him 9 times out of 10. He barely beat him 1 time out of 1.
according to the rules (to my recollection), if guilty, he cant find for any WBA title for two years, im pretty sure he's fined, n i think that the result is changed to a no contest. so there wont be able to hav that rematch

You know what I find funny? The fact that people are forgetting that although it does seem that James Toney took steroids that it wouldn't really change the outcome of the fight. :confused: Let me explain Toney may have taken roids but that doesn't kill the fact Toney beats Ruiz 9 times out of 10.

Ha, whatever. Has Toney fought Ruiz 10 times? No. Then he doesn't beat Ruiz 9/10 times does he? No. Quit dreaming and make some sense.

Toney took drugs because he was: 1) afraid of Ruiz, or 2) insecure of his own ability. Either way he won nothing. If he took a bat to Ruiz head in the ring, did he win? No. He broke the rules and should be stripped and punished.

Anyone who takes drugs in boxing to cheat is a coward, plain and simple. A disgrace. Anyone who thinks that's ok is also a disgrace.

This is all a setup to keep John Ruiz in the title picture.

Don King poisoned James Toney's water bottle with the illegal roid.
He knew Toney would beat Ruiz.....& this is how he'll steal the win from him.

Suck on that, Wlad Klit fans !

My god you are dumb. Toney was signed with King BEFORE the fight. So why the hell would King sabotage his own heir to the belt? Here's a free piece of advice: never start your own business because you'll lose your ass.

You know, regardless of what happened in the ring (And again, IF Toney was on juice then it wasn't a total whitewash - it's okay saying he's a better boxer than Ruiz but Ruiz is still an active HEAVY with a punch to match, so there's no guarantee...) if Toney is guilty then I don't see why he DESERVES a rematch.

He gets the opportunity, cheats (say it ain't so!) and then they say "well, second time lucky, eh?" (????)

Regardless of their respective boxing abilities, at this stage people can legimitately theorise over what would have happened if Toney was clean. Yeah, he would probably have won anyway... but having "Ruiz would have beat you without steroids" is the worst and most apt punishment that could possibly be meted out.

My god you are dumb. Toney was signed with King BEFORE the fight. So why the hell would King sabotage his own heir to the belt? Here's a free piece of advice: never start your own business because you'll lose your ass.


If you had any prior boxing knowledge, you'd know that post was just a bust on the Klit fans & their conspiracy theories from last year.
If you had some life knowledge, you'd get off of these boards & out into the comedy clubs. At least there, you'd see & hear what it's like to BOMB with your material. Maybe you'd then get a new act, Sheck ?

You think you're clever, but you were too stupid to see I was dropping the last one, tongue-in-cheek.

If you had any prior boxing knowledge, you'd know that post was just a bust on the Klit fans & their conspiracy theories from last year.
If you had some life knowledge, you'd get off of these boards & out into the comedy clubs. At least there, you'd see & hear what it's like to BOMB with your material. Maybe you'd then get a new act, Sheck ?

You think you're clever, but you were too stupid to see I was dropping the last one, tongue-in-cheek.

chickenjab:

dont try any tounge action when your sence of humor is retarded.. you must have heard this before..

stead, be thankful of the good advice. never trust your own judgment in buisness, youre unpopular and bound to get your ass abused :D

if you cannot respect the champions - and the real talents of the world, you should spend your time in therapy - retardiology - preferably.

bow to the champs, chickenjab, feel how puny and phony you are!! :)

We all seem to forget this is not the first time ruiz has lost to a drug enhanced fighter...

It's fairly common knowledge roy jones failed test for roids after their fight and nothing happened there even though evidence was later published.

1. Ruiz must be thinking wtf is it with all these druggy middleweights beating me around.

2. I really duno why people get away with using hard drugs in boxing, it should be like any other sport and the line has to be drawn somewhere and feck precendent out the window.

We all seem to forget this is not the first time ruiz has lost to a drug enhanced fighter...

It's fairly common knowledge roy jones failed test for roids after their fight and nothing happened there even though evidence was later published.

1. Ruiz must be thinking wtf is it with all these druggy middleweights beating me around.

2. I really duno why people get away with using hard drugs in boxing, it should be like any other sport and the line has to be drawn somewhere and feck precendent out the window.

i dont know what "feck precedent out the window" means, but i sure like the ring of it. :D

chickenjab:

dont try any tounge action when your sence of humor is retarded.. you must have heard this before..

stead, be thankful of the good advice. never trust your own judgment in buisness, youre unpopular and bound to get your ass abused :D

if you cannot respect the champions - and the real talents of the world, you should spend your time in therapy - retardiology - preferably.

bow to the champs, chickenjab, feel how puny and phony you are!! :)


Judging by your indecipherable posting style.......I feel safe in saying, "Hello, Panzer".

Banned, but never gone, eh Droolio ?

lol

by precedent I mean they should not be allowed to say such and such got away with this and so and so got no punishment. they should just draw a line and if anyone crosses it then they are out. simple, no contraversy-you cheat, you lose.

i mean here we have people saying vargas this vargas that and itll always be a problem until boxing authorities take a hard line approach...