Who were some defensive fighters that don't get talked about often?

Winky Wright had a solid defense, IMO. It's sort of a peek-a-boo style that worked great with his counter-punching ability.

Roberto Duran.

I think Vitali Klitschko is underatted for his defensive skills. We usually don't think of the HW division having great defense as the smaller guys get that credit. But if you notice Vitali rarely gets him with any combos and he is great movement for a big man. The Lennox Lewis and Cory Sanders are rare exceptions to the rule as there wes alot of toe to toe action in those fights.

Roberto Duran.

Duran was the 1st that came to mind - Great minds think alike :boxing:

Duilio Loi and Packy McFarland..

Roberto Duran.

Duran was the 1st that came to mind - Great minds think alike :boxing:

Its almost funny the amount of people who think Duran was not a great defensive fighter. Not a defensive specialist, but great defense just the same.

Who were some defensive fighters that don't get talked about often?

Winky Wright had a solid defense, IMO. It's sort of a peek-a-boo style that worked great with his counter-punching ability.

Buddy McGirt
Ivan calderon
Jimmy Young
Oscar De La Hoya
Dwight Qawi

Jake la motta had under rated defensive skills, carlos monzon had a solid defence

Mark Johnson
Tyrone Everett
Buddy McGirt
Montell Griffin

Julio Cesar Chavez gets the reputation that he takes every punch on the chin but he had a solid defense, he could get caught when trading but he wasn't the most available to be hit by a long shot.

Jake La Motta did not have underrated defensive skills, he was a guy that got hit and kept coming.

Jake La Motta did not have underrated defensive skills, he was a guy that got hit and kept coming.

I have to disagree. He's one of the better inside technicians I've seen on film and this included defensive ability, not just his offense. He got hit as he came forward against opponents with longer reach. Still, even if he got hit he rolled with the punches to take away the impact.

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7:35

I have to disagree. He's one of the better inside technicians I've seen on film and this included defensive ability, not just his offense. He got hit as he came forward against opponents with longer reach. Still, even if he got hit he rolled with the punches to take away the impact.

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7:35

That's good but it still isn't defence, he is still getting hit.

I agree Jake was better technically than a lot say, he was smarter than he got credit for, but he was still a pretty open target most of the time.

That's good but it still isn't defence, he is still getting hit.

I agree Jake was better technically than a lot say, he was smarter than he got credit for, but he was still a pretty open target most of the time.

Being able to roll with the punches isn't defense?

LaMotta made himself an open target because he was a relentless aggressor, there aren't too many pressure fighters who didn't get hit. I'd say that LaMotta had above average defense for a swarmer, not on the level of Duran, Tyson but above the likes of Jorge Castro, Ricky Hatton who just get hit a ton.

Of course I'm not going to claim that LaMotta was a great defensive fighter by any means but his defense is overlooked as most people think he was a walking punching bag which is an exaggeration. He didn't have the natural instincts/ reflexes but technically he was solid.

Being able to roll with the punches isn't defense?

LaMotta made himself an open target because he was a relentless aggressor, there aren't too many pressure fighters who didn't get hit. I'd say that LaMotta had above average defense for a swarmer, not on the level of Duran, Tyson but above the likes of Jorge Castro, Ricky Hatton who just get hit a ton.

Of course I'm not going to claim that LaMotta was a great defensive fighter by any means but his defense is overlooked as most people think he was a walking punching bag which is an exaggeration. He didn't have the natural instincts/ reflexes but technically he was solid.

Of course.

Well rolling with punches, you are still getting hit, I guess it can be seen as a form of defence but the best defence is not getting hit on the target area at all, and instead making them miss or land on your shoulders, arms, eblows, gloves.

Of course.

Well rolling with punches, you are still getting hit, I guess it can be seen as a form of defence but the best defence is not getting hit on the target area at all, and instead making them miss or land on your shoulders, arms, eblows, gloves.

Yes but sometimes you've got to make the conscious choice that you're going to get hit and try to do your best to avoid being hit too much, or too hard. LaMotta made that choice. He wasn't a Sugar Ray or a Willie Pep but he was physically stronger and had to take the fight to quicker boxers, even if it meant he had to take a couple of punches in order to land his own.

It's the same as Joe Frazier, he got hit a lot, but he also made his opponents miss a lot. No one's going to be able to evade all the punches from a Sugar Ray or a Muhammad Ali.

Yes but sometimes you've got to make the conscious choice that you're going to get hit and try to do your best to avoid being hit too much, or too hard. LaMotta made that choice. He wasn't a Sugar Ray or a Willie Pep but he was physically stronger and had to take the fight to quicker boxers, even if it meant he had to take a couple of punches in order to land his own.

It's the same as Joe Frazier, he got hit a lot, but he also made his opponents miss a lot. No one's going to be able to evade all the punches from a Sugar Ray or a Muhammad Ali.

I don't think anyone could survive 6 fights with Ray Robinson without getting knocked down, the first 5 without getting stopped, without having some semblance of defense.

Being able to roll with the punches isn't defense?

LaMotta made himself an open target because he was a relentless aggressor, there aren't too many pressure fighters who didn't get hit. I'd say that LaMotta had above average defense for a swarmer, not on the level of Duran, Tyson but above the likes of Jorge Castro, Ricky Hatton who just get hit a ton.

Of course I'm not going to claim that LaMotta was a great defensive fighter by any means but his defense is overlooked as most people think he was a walking punching bag which is an exaggeration. He didn't have the natural instincts/ reflexes but technically he was solid.

good post Great A

Cotto.....

I always thought that Jeff Fenech was underrated defensively, he could actually be very good defensively on the outside when he concentrated but his offense would wane as a result. On the inside he was very adept at slipping and blocking punches and he was hard to really hit with a clean punch. Not a defensive wizard by any stretch of the imagination but for a guy with a four corners offense he was better than one would think.

Johnny Famechon!

Quite truly one of the most overlooked defensive fighters of the sixties and of any time. Had a brilliant run as a world champion and baffled some great fighters to tears and had some of the slickest shoulder rolling, ducking/weaving and sliding you are likely to see in that era. Was a fine defensive practitioner. The vid is not a defense HL at all, but just a HL of this fight and while it was not his best performance either it shows you what he was capable of. Very crafty.

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Very good, and very forgotten for his skill. Was amazing in the corners and his ability to escape incredible. Thanks to Southpawjab for putting this up.

I always thought that Jeff Fenech was underrated defensively, he could actually be very good defensively on the outside when he concentrated but his offense would wane as a result. On the inside he was very adept at slipping and blocking punches and he was hard to really hit with a clean punch. Not a defensive wizard by any stretch of the imagination but for a guy with a four corners offense he was better than one would think.

True. I agree with this a lot. The greatest pressure fighters often had underrated skill in general and were actually better than most classic boxers defensively. They just had to fight like wildmen because of their nature etc. Fenech though had very good head, upper-body movement and was pretty slick on the inside.

Often people look at the counter punchers but forget how much harder it is to be defensively sound while on the attack. The reason guys that are counter punchers and focus on defense are considered the best is because it's what they focused on mostly. It is much easier to lay back and wait and be defensive, waiting for openings the whole fight than it is to create openings with offense and defense attack and still be hard to catch.

Just look at someone like Whitaker for example. Amazing defense when he was focusing on it but when he got offensive he was hit often and dropped often too. Same with Mayweather. In his more brawl-like fights he got hit as much as most, though he was still brilliant at not getting caught cleanly.

The offensive guys that were great defensively I think I have the most admiration for and I consider that the highest form of defense. Just sticking to defense without looking to use it for your offense is not nearly as difficult as using your defense to make attacking opportunities or to be right on the inside or outside, and firing your shots with a mind for offense and yet still being defensively sound. Now that's skill.

Cotto.....

:lol1:


:boxing:

That's good but it still isn't defence, he is still getting hit.

I agree Jake was better technically than a lot say, he was smarter than he got credit for, but he was still a pretty open target most of the time.

Umm, rolling with punches is one of the most skillful and hard to perfect defensive skills. Few fighters still do it because it is so damn hard. It took great skill to be able to roll with punches well and is an amazing defensive skill because it allows you to be in perfect range, balance to counter and leaves the opponent completely open to your shots.

Toney and Duran were both truly brilliant at this. It is defense at it's highest.

I mean, if that's not defense, what is? :thinking:

Moving away? No. Defense is being able to take off the brunt of a punch by blocking, parrying, or rolling etc or to make them miss completely by slipping, ducking, weaving etc.

Mayweather's defense is based on rolling with shots and there is no one that wouldn't call that brilliant defense. He still gets hit, but rolls with it so it does nothing.

Umm, rolling with punches is one of the most skillful and hard to perfect defensive skills. Few fighters still do it because it is so damn hard. It took great skill to be able to roll with punches well and is an amazing defensive skill because it allows you to be in perfect range, balance to counter and leaves the opponent completely open to your shots.

Toney and Duran were both truly brilliant at this. It is defense at it's highest.

I mean, if that's not defense, what is? :thinking:

Moving away? No. Defense is being able to take off the brunt of a punch by blocking, parrying, or rolling etc or to make them miss completely by slipping, ducking, weaving etc.



Totally agree, good post. I loved the fact that Duran at his best, stayed in the eye of the storm so to speak, took very little of the other guys blow and was in range to attack.

Chris Byrd
Orlin Norris
Montell Griffin
Malon Starling
Ike Quartery
Muhammad Qawi (if can be called defensive)
Dominick Guinn
Sultan Ibragimov

True. I agree with this a lot. The greatest pressure fighters often had underrated skill in general and were actually better than most classic boxers defensively. They just had to fight like wildmen because of their nature etc. Fenech though had very good head, upper-body movement and was pretty slick on the inside.

Often people look at the counter punchers but forget how much harder it is to be defensively sound while on the attack. The reason guys that are counter punchers and focus on defense are considered the best is because it's what they focused on mostly. It is much easier to lay back and wait and be defensive, waiting for openings the whole fight than it is to create openings with offense and defense attack and still be hard to catch.

Just look at someone like Whitaker for example. Amazing defense when he was focusing on it but when he got offensive he was hit often and dropped often too. Same with Mayweather. In his more brawl-like fights he got hit as much as most, though he was still brilliant at not getting caught cleanly.

The offensive guys that were great defensively I think I have the most admiration for and I consider that the highest form of defense. Just sticking to defense without looking to use it for your offense is not nearly as difficult as using your defense to make attacking opportunities or to be right on the inside or outside, and firing your shots with a mind for offense and yet still being defensively sound. Now that's skill.

Whitaker was often the guy using his defense to look for offense though. I think he could go it both ways, as he often did against opponents at higher weights. Just look at the way he fought Harold Brazier, Buddy McGirt, Jake Rodriguez, JC Vazquez, etc. He was impressive because he was fighting at mid-range or in close, throwing punches in combination while slipping, blocking or dodging return fire completely. I don't Whitaker was a defend first, wait for safety, attack later fighter at all.

As Mayweather has moved up his punch output, overall, has dropped significantly. He is weary of taking shots from bigger guys and rightfully so. His philosophy is hit and don't get hit in the simplest form. Whitaker had the same philosophy, but he did it with a certain flair and didn't sacrifice his own offense (and relative action in the fight) to get that accomplished.

I think you saw most of his lapses, he certainly had them, when he got overconfident and started doggin it a little. I don't think he was an open book when attacking his opponents. Whitaker was as crafty as anyone inside and was a master of making his way inside, winning the positioning battle and letting his hands go while avoiding punches in return.

The only time I saw him get tagged at an alarming rate while attacking was in the Hurtado fight. We all know he was slipping hard by that time anyway, but Hurtado was able to land those long right hands as Pernell waded in and, quite frankly, foolishly followed him around. I don't think Pernell had much respect for Dio.

Whitaker was often the guy using his defense to look for offense though. I think he could go it both ways, as he often did against opponents at higher weights. Just look at the way he fought Harold Brazier, Buddy McGirt, Jake Rodriguez, JC Vazquez, etc. He was impressive because he was fighting at mid-range or in close, throwing punches in combination while slipping, blocking or dodging return fire completely. I don't Whitaker was a defend first, wait for safety, attack later fighter at all.

As Mayweather has moved up his punch output, overall, has dropped significantly. He is weary of taking shots from bigger guys and rightfully so. His philosophy is hit and don't get hit in the simplest form. Whitaker had the same philosophy, but he did it with a certain flair and didn't sacrifice his own offense (and relative action in the fight) to get that accomplished.

I think you saw most of his lapses, he certainly had them, when he got overconfident and started doggin it a little. I don't think he was an open book when attacking his opponents. Whitaker was as crafty as anyone inside and was a master of making his way inside, winning the positioning battle and letting his hands go while avoiding punches in return.

The only time I saw him get tagged at an alarming rate while attacking was in the Hurtado fight. We all know he was slipping hard by that time anyway, but Hurtado was able to land those long right hands as Pernell waded in and, quite frankly, foolishly followed him around. I don't think Pernell had much respect for Dio.

Nope. You're right. He was one of the guys that came to mind in a general sense you know? Ie. He had that pure defensive mode, which was his version of clowning, playing to the crowd etc, than anything and his fighting/defensive mode and then his brawling mode too.

Great post.

Umm, rolling with punches is one of the most skillful and hard to perfect defensive skills. Few fighters still do it because it is so damn hard. It took great skill to be able to roll with punches well and is an amazing defensive skill because it allows you to be in perfect range, balance to counter and leaves the opponent completely open to your shots.

Toney and Duran were both truly brilliant at this. It is defense at it's highest.

I mean, if that's not defense, what is? :thinking:

Moving away? No. Defense is being able to take off the brunt of a punch by blocking, parrying, or rolling etc or to make them miss completely by slipping, ducking, weaving etc.

Mayweather's defense is based on rolling with shots and there is no one that wouldn't call that brilliant defense. He still gets hit, but rolls with it so it does nothing.

I'm not talking about rolling with punches off your shoulders or arms, I'm talking about getting hit in the face and rolling with it to lessen the impact.

Harold Brazier and Ayub Kalule are two fighters who are were very adept defensively, though not neccesarily underrated bot moreso overlooked. Brazier was a master of the shell and Kalule was excellent in slipping and blocking punches.

Harold Brazier and Ayub Kalule are two fighters who are were very adept defensively, though not neccesarily underrated bot moreso overlooked. Brazier was a master of the shell and Kalule was excellent in slipping and blocking punches.

I was going to mention Brazier. I really liked watching him fight and I would say he is one of the better fighters that never won a title. I thought he was really great, but just lacked the one big fight that got him that title.

His war with Mayweather was amazing and typified his career and title shots. Really close fights against very good fighters that he just lost, or just won depending on your opinion.

Young Griffo, the Aussie. Very few know who this guy is, but he is probably one of the most naturally brilliant defensive fighters ever. Some say easily better than Pep.

One of those that say so was Joe Gans who said that Griffo was easily the greatest defensive boxer that ever lived. He also said he got beaten quite easily by him even though he was fat and lazy and at the end of his career while Gans was in his prime.

Many others that saw him also said he was by far the most naturally gifted fighter they had ever seen, and easily the best defensive boxer.

Just about every great fighter he faced, and there were many, said he was the greatest by far. Most also said he was fat, and shockingly out of shape and that if he wasn't an alcoholic could easily have been the best fighter to ever live.

Jack McCauliffe, the undefeated champion was given the worst beating (not so much of a beating, but that he was simply unable to land anything at all while getting pasted left, right and center) of his life, but the ref awarded McAuliffe the decision anyway, and was nearly beaten up himself by the shocked crowd. Sad, but he was often given draws in fights he won quite easily against the better known, more popular Americans he fought.

Supposedly he had easily beaten fighters like Joe Gans, George Dixon, Jack McAuliffe, Kid Lavigne, Billy Murphy, Frank Erne (who beat Joe Gans by KO for the LW title and was no bother for Griffo at all who quite literally played with him for the bout), Jack Daly, and many others.

One of the most underrated and little known geniuses of the sport to have ever fought. He made some of the greatest technicians look amateur, and even they said so too!

Mike Tyson. I think he is overated as hell. But not when it came to his defense, his head movement was incredible at times and that really what gave him a chance to throw his left hook

joe fraizer had some good d....hell he blocked SOME of foremen punches