Ive been learning how to box for a little over a year, but I have a small frame. Im 5'9" and weigh 130lbs give or take a pound. I want to get stronger and put on a little more weight but Ive heard that lifting and boxing dont mix. What do you guys think?

Ive been learning how to box for a little over a year, but I have a small frame. Im 5'9" and weigh 130lbs give or take a pound. I want to get stronger and put on a little more weight but Ive heard that lifting and boxing dont mix. What do you guys think?


Well, do you want to get faster? Gain weight? Go up in weight class? Drop down? Lots of reason to lift weights or not. What do you want to change?

Personally, I dont touch weights or even do push ups, I feel they both tense me up and slow me down, its a personal preference, you have to know how your body reacts to certain workouts, an what you want to gain.

If you do decide to lift some weights, make sure its a light weight, higher rep, an when your lifting make sure its explosive.

Ive been learning how to box for a little over a year, but I have a small frame. Im 5'9" and weigh 130lbs give or take a pound. I want to get stronger and put on a little more weight but Ive heard that lifting and boxing dont mix. What do you guys think?

i do weight lifting,boxing and running....but im 6"2 and 200Ibs

If you do decide to lift some weights, make sure its a light weight, higher rep, an when your lifting make sure its explosive.

^^^
I respect your and anyone elses position on this subject but don't be spreading around ignorance like this

How many new threads are we gonna get on this? We need a sticky of the comprehensive guide to lifting and boxing.

How many new threads are we gonna get on this? We need a sticky of the comprehensive guide to lifting and boxing.

I agree. It's being done to death.

thanks for the tips and advice, and to the first post I really just want to get stronger all around...and like someone just said I guess people would ask this question alot, I just dont go to the forum section that often

Bottom line is its beneficial for you when done properly, ie no bodybuilding routines, power/strength routines will help you. Run a search and you should come up with some good information in this forum.

I gotta belive that those heavyweights all very much lift weights. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I am just assuming since well, they are huge.

You can lift weights. Nothing wrong with it. It doesn't slow you down; that's b.s. Gamboa lifts weights, Mayweather lifts weights, and yes, even Pacquiao lifts weights. Everything in moderation my friend.

You can lift weights. Nothing wrong with it. It doesn't slow you down; that's b.s. Gamboa lifts weights, Mayweather lifts weights, and yes, even Pacquiao lifts weights. Everything in moderation my friend.

pacquiao doesn't lift weights

neither does this guy http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/dynamic/00382/Three30_Walker_MMA__382575l.jpg

pacquiao doesn't lift weights

neither does this guy http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/dynamic/00382/Three30_Walker_MMA__382575l.jpg

I take it you're joking becuase of the Hershell image, but just incase you're not, Yeah Pac does. Light weights, but regardless he does.

I take it you're joking becuase of the Hershell image, but just incase you're not, Yeah Pac does. Light weights, but regardless he does.

what i thought, would'nt really count that, it's the same as putting on 20oz gloves
and i wasn't jokin, herschell doesn't lift weights, he said it himself, "never lifted weights and i think it can ruin a young athletes body" was what he said

what i thought, would'nt really count that, it's the same as putting on 20oz gloves
and i wasn't jokin, herschell doesn't lift weights, he said it himself, "never lifted weights and i think it can ruin a young athletes body" was what he said

You can't get like that without lifting weights in some form. PED's don't hurt either...

You can't get like that without lifting weights in some form. PED's don't hurt either...

that's what they all say, but i know alot of guys that got big muscle just from calisthenics

it's about being creative with your calisthenics

I dont touch weights. Calisthenics and cardio for me....

I think Evander Holyfield showed what a little wieght lifting can do.
One of the greatest.

I think Evander Holyfield showed what a little wieght lifting can do.
One of the greatest.
that's called steroids

notice most fighters caught with steroids, were lifting weights

^^ While I do not know if thats true, what is your point.

Also Walker could lie, he seems like a good guy so I doubt it.

Finally why does everyone use him as the new big role model for no lifting?

what i thought, would'nt really count that, it's the same as putting on 20oz gloves
and i wasn't jokin, herschell doesn't lift weights, he said it himself, "never lifted weights and i think it can ruin a young athletes body" was what he said

I wouldn't believe anything that Hershel says. He has mental issues or at least he likes to fabricate his mental issues.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=4643971&page=1
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pacquiao doesn't lift weights

And yes, Ariza did put Pacquiao through some resistance training - which is still considered taboo in many boxing circles.

"I do use weights, but in the sense that they're not for cosmetic reasons," says Ariza, who stays away from compound lifts such as the bench press and military press. He believes in high reps with movements that will benefit a boxer inside the ring. "They're more to develop a quicker, faster response, a faster twitch-muscle fiber. They're designed to target those things like that. So the idea behind using light weight is also for flexibility and to develop a faster reflex."

So yeah you are wrong. But then again so is his trainer. Fast Twitch Fibers are worked by doing heavy lifts.

http://www.coachr.org/fiber.htm


neither does this guy http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/dynamic/00382/Three30_Walker_MMA__382575l.jpg

I really can't stand how you can point to a select few people who don't lift weights and automatically say that because these people don't use weights, that nobody else should have to.

Everyone's body is different and different things work for different people. So stop trying to force your beliefs on people on something you clearly don't know very much about .

^^ While I do not know if thats true, what is your point.

Also Walker could lie, he seems like a good guy so I doubt it.

Finally why does everyone use him as the new big role model for no lifting?


He is the exception, not the rule.

Every time there is someone who is unorthadox is success, there is someone who tries to copy their individualism, with terrible, terrible results.

Hershal Walker is to Physical Fitness as Roy Jones Jr was to boxing.

I don't know how many poor souls I've seen with bloody noses and busted lips, trying to be Roy Jones. Very soon I imagine, we will see alot of people doing akward bodyweight calisthenics, and then wondering why they don't have Hershal Walkers size.

C'est la vie!

He is the exception, not the rule.

Every time there is someone who is unorthadox is success, there is someone who tries to copy their individualism, with terrible, terrible results.

Hershal Walker is to Physical Fitness as Roy Jones Jr was to boxing.

I don't know how many poor souls I've seen with bloody noses and busted lips, trying to be Roy Jones. Very soon I imagine, we will see alot of people doing akward bodyweight calisthenics, and then wondering why they don't have Hershal Walkers size.

C'est la vie!

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1233928590_citizen kane clapping.gif (http://www.gifbin.com/982166)

Green K sent! Great post

Ive been learning how to box for a little over a year, but I have a small frame. Im 5'9" and weigh 130lbs give or take a pound. I want to get stronger and put on a little more weight but Ive heard that lifting and boxing dont mix. What do you guys think?
There is a"HUGE" difference between "WEIGHT LIFTING", and "WEIGHT TRAINING".

"Weight Lifting" in boxing can slow your reflexes, and your muscles get fatigued a whole lot faster.

Evander Holyfield, of course he started at Cruiser Weight, but was a very "chizzled" Heavy Weight. That was "Weight Training". In other words, using moderate weights in high repetitons, as opposed to heavy "LIFTING", builds your stamina.

Here's the thing. "Muscle" retains water. Which means you gotta do "more" road work to burn off the excess "baggage", and stay within your weight class.

If you have a high Metabolism, It shouldn't be a burden to "WEIGHT TRAIN". I'd keep it at no more than 2x a week. But that's just me. In The Army Airborne, you gotta do lots and lots, I mean "LOTS" of 'pull-ups'. Weight Lifting will only slow you down. But I weight train to strengthen my back (Lats).

So yeah you are wrong. But then again so is his trainer. Fast Twitch Fibers are worked by doing heavy lifts.

http://www.coachr.org/fiber.htm




I really can't stand how you can point to a select few people who don't lift weights and automatically say that because these people don't use weights, that nobody else should have to.

Everyone's body is different and different things work for different people. So stop trying to force your beliefs on people on something you clearly don't know very much about .
do you want me to link you to a more trust worthy site with pacquiao saying he doesn't lift weights?
no one counts shadowboxing with dumbells neither
but if you so desperately wanna cling to that, it's just for muscle stamina, dont think it brings upon some magical speed

also, have you not seen the bar master videos i posted before? those guys are not only ripped, but most of them are huge, you dont need herschel walkers genes, just decent genes

but im not denying that if you wanna put on muscle fast, weights can't be used, im just sayin, you dont have to use weights, just it'll probabley be alot quicker

and you dont have to do any awkward calisthenics, walker only does mainly pullups, pushups, situps etc, the conventional ones

P.S a little tip, as your weight builds, pullups will get harder

do you want me to link you to a more trust worthy site with pacquiao saying he doesn't lift weights?
no one counts shadowboxing with dumbells neither
but if you so desperately wanna cling to that, it's just for muscle stamina, dont think it brings upon some magical speed

also, have you not seen the bar master videos i posted before? those guys are not only ripped, but most of them are huge, you dont need herschel walkers genes, just decent genes

but im not denying that if you wanna put on muscle fast, weights can't be used, im just sayin, you dont have to use weights, just it'll probabley be alot quicker

and you dont have to do any awkward calisthenics, walker only does mainly pullups, pushups, situps etc, the conventional ones

P.S a little tip, as your weight builds, pullups will get harder

Dude. What don't you get? His own personal trainer says he uses them. Face it; you were proven wrong. No big deal. It happens all the time.

Dude. What don't you get? His own personal trainer says he uses them. Face it; you were proven wrong. No big deal. It happens all the time.

well if that's what you guys meant, then i agree, light weights can work

but nothin i'd bother with

just don't overdue it, bad for the joints

He is the exception, not the rule.

Every time there is someone who is unorthadox is success, there is someone who tries to copy their individualism, with terrible, terrible results.

Hershal Walker is to Physical Fitness as Roy Jones Jr was to boxing.

I don't know how many poor souls I've seen with bloody noses and busted lips, trying to be Roy Jones. Very soon I imagine, we will see alot of people doing akward bodyweight calisthenics, and then wondering why they don't have Hershal Walkers size.

C'est la vie!

I must be another exception then. I trained with weights for 18 years and improved my physique, health, fitness, and boxing immeasurably by ditching them age 37 and switching to calisthenics. I with I'd never bothered with weights now.

I must be another exception then. I trained with weights for 18 years and improved my physique, health, fitness, and boxing immeasurably by ditching them age 37 and switching to calisthenics. I with I'd never bothered with weights now.


Yes, you are another exception.

I am not going to argue weights vs bodyweight, that is a firefight that has no end and no hope for positive set in stone answers. I believe in doing what works for you. Bodyweight, weights, hell if wrestling with wolves really gets your cardio up, then God bless, and keep it up.

All I'm saying is that more often then not people get better results in boxing with weights. But this is just the general population, and I personally do much better with bodyweight.

I just feel bad for those people who see hershal walker, decide to do bodyweight exercises, then feel bad, because they dont turn into hershal walker.

In the words of Brad Pitt's portrayal of Tyler Durden, "Do what you like, man."

I believe in doing what works for you. Bodyweight, weights, hell if wrestling with wolves really gets your cardio up, then God bless, and keep it up.

I agree with this part.

Yes, you are another exception.

All I'm saying is that more often then not people get better results in boxing with weights. But this is just the general population, and I personally do much better with bodyweight.

I just feel bad for those people who see hershal walker, decide to do bodyweight exercises, then feel bad, because they dont turn into hershal walker.

In the words of Brad Pitt's portrayal of Tyler Durden, "Do what you like, man."

I completely disagree with that part though. Boxers predominantly trained using bodyweight right through until the mid-1980s when use of weights gradually started to increase.

Bodyweight is advantageous in the same way skipping is. It builds body awareness and the cardio is working harmoniously with the movements. When working bodyweight exercises, pushups in particular, you never know which is going to crap out first your strength of your gas. Bodyweight also links leanness to performance. The lighter and more muscular you are the better your performance will be.

Weight training is a whole commercial culture in itself. It creates a requirement for equipment, special food, special supplements, gym membership, gadgets, special clothes. All these things cost money, much of it repeat business, and it's a huge market. It gets advertised on TV, in magazines, you name it. Sports personalities are paid big bucks to promote this stuff (much like red bull). When was the last time you saw a pushup being advertised, or a cyclist promoting drinking water?

All this creates pressure on people to adopt weight training, the implication being that otherwise they will somehow be left behind like they were when everyone did steroids. In actuality much of the reputation of weight training was built at a time when steroids were rife, but knowledge of steroids was not. People training using other methods (there are many calisthenics, kinetic tension, isometrics, yoga, wrestling wolves, you name it) looked at those training weights and thought "WOW those results are REALLY impressive. Then when (like me) they tried to replicate them they failed. They failed because they weren't using steroids. They were set a false expectation.

True weight training may have cleaned up it's act as far as drug abuse is concerned, although I'm not entirely convinced. But in my experience it offers zero benefits, and a whole host of downsides like cost, time, risk, limited effectiveness and injury.

Someone training bodyweight may not end up like Herschel - we are all built differently. They may end up like Ken Norton or Rocky Marciano or John Peterson, or Joe Louis, or Harry Greb, or Willie Pep. But if they train it correctly, and that means devoting some effort to learning how to do it properly and well, then they will certainly succeed in building the best body they are capable of building. I know because I have. And so did thousands of other boxers before me.

I agree with this part.



I completely disagree with that part though. Boxers predominantly trained using bodyweight right through until the mid-1980s when use of weights gradually started to increase.

Bodyweight is advantageous in the same way skipping is. It builds body awareness and the cardio is working harmoniously with the movements. When working bodyweight exercises, pushups in particular, you never know which is going to crap out first your strength of your gas. Bodyweight also links leanness to performance. The lighter and more muscular you are the better your performance will be.

Weight training is a whole commercial culture in itself. It creates a requirement for equipment, special food, special supplements, gym membership, gadgets, special clothes. All these things cost money, much of it repeat business, and it's a huge market. It gets advertised on TV, in magazines, you name it. Sports personalities are paid big bucks to promote this stuff (much like red bull). When was the last time you saw a pushup being advertised, or a cyclist promoting drinking water?

All this creates pressure on people to adopt weight training, the implication being that otherwise they will somehow be left behind like they were when everyone did steroids. In actuality much of the reputation of weight training was built at a time when steroids were rife, but knowledge of steroids was not. People training using other methods (there are many calisthenics, kinetic tension, isometrics, yoga, wrestling wolves, you name it) looked at those training weights and thought "WOW those results are REALLY impressive. Then when (like me) they tried to replicate them they failed. They failed because they weren't using steroids. They were set a false expectation.

True weight training may have cleaned up it's act as far as drug abuse is concerned, although I'm not entirely convinced. But in my experience it offers zero benefits, and a whole host of downsides like cost, time, risk, limited effectiveness and injury.

Someone training bodyweight may not end up like Herschel - we are all built differently. They may end up like Ken Norton or Rocky Marciano or John Peterson, or Joe Louis, or Harry Greb, or Willie Pep. But if they train it correctly, and that means devoting some effort to learning how to do it properly and well, then they will certainly succeed in building the best body they are capable of building. I know because I have. And so did thousands of other boxers before me.

fighters of the past -- practice technique, spar
nowadays -- liftweights, it'll give you all the strenght and speed you'll need


i dont see monkey's liftin weights, and even the small ones are about 7 times stronger than your average man

calisthenics = having what your meant to have
bodybuilding = pushing the boundaries, causing you to be unbalanced and perform at a lower level

Weight lifting does not cause a need for special food, clothes, supplements, etc.

All I'm saying is that more often then not people get better results in boxing with weights.

because we can see the boxers of today are definitely more athletic and non-robotic compared to their previous counterparts

nowadays there is barely any slick fighters, and these slick fighters happen to be the best in the sport

back in the days you had to be more than slick to get by, but damn were there a lot of slick guys

Weight lifting does not cause a need for special food, clothes, supplements, etc.

I said "creates a need" not "causes". In the same way that riding bicycles creates a need to day-glo clothing and isotonic water bottles, or that golfing creates a need for funny shoes.

I said "creates a need" not "causes". In the same way that riding bicycles creates a need to day-glo clothing and isotonic water bottles, or that golfing creates a need for funny shoes.

I think you're referring to bodybuilding. Working out with weights for boxing is a completely different regimen. Where not saying you have to look like Swarzenaeger; I don't think that kind of work as any business in boxing, but routines that require you to use weights in a similar fashion to say working out with medicine or kettle-balls are not going to hurt. Yeah years ago they didn't use weights to train. But years ago they also thought attaching leaches to people with diseases would make them better. Times change, science and nutrition evolve, and there are safe ways to use weights within boxing. If that wasn't the case top level elite fighters would stay the hell away from them. I'm sure training without weights can work for a lot of people. But if you train properly with them, it is totally safe and beneficial.

I completely disagree with that part though. Boxers predominantly trained using bodyweight right through until the mid-1980s when use of weights gradually started to increase.

Bodyweight is advantageous in the same way skipping is. It builds body awareness and the cardio is working harmoniously with the movements. When working bodyweight exercises, pushups in particular, you never know which is going to crap out first your strength of your gas. Bodyweight also links leanness to performance. The lighter and more muscular you are the better your performance will be.

Weight training is a whole commercial culture in itself. It creates a requirement for equipment, special food, special supplements, gym membership, gadgets, special clothes. All these things cost money, much of it repeat business, and it's a huge market. It gets advertised on TV, in magazines, you name it. Sports personalities are paid big bucks to promote this stuff (much like red bull). When was the last time you saw a pushup being advertised, or a cyclist promoting drinking water?

All this creates pressure on people to adopt weight training, the implication being that otherwise they will somehow be left behind like they were when everyone did steroids. In actuality much of the reputation of weight training was built at a time when steroids were rife, but knowledge of steroids was not. People training using other methods (there are many calisthenics, kinetic tension, isometrics, yoga, wrestling wolves, you name it) looked at those training weights and thought "WOW those results are REALLY impressive. Then when (like me) they tried to replicate them they failed. They failed because they weren't using steroids. They were set a false expectation.

True weight training may have cleaned up it's act as far as drug abuse is concerned, although I'm not entirely convinced. But in my experience it offers zero benefits, and a whole host of downsides like cost, time, risk, limited effectiveness and injury.

Someone training bodyweight may not end up like Herschel - we are all built differently. They may end up like Ken Norton or Rocky Marciano or John Peterson, or Joe Louis, or Harry Greb, or Willie Pep. But if they train it correctly, and that means devoting some effort to learning how to do it properly and well, then they will certainly succeed in building the best body they are capable of building. I know because I have. And so did thousands of other boxers before me.


After sleeping on it yesterday and reading your post, I believe you are right. Especially when it comes to marketing weight training and all its equiptment. I gathered my info just from all the training videos I've seen of fighters, and each time I always see them with weights and using machines, but what I didn't take into account, is that most bodyweight exercises are not that interesting, and would waste film for someone making a video of a workout. My common sense also points towards lots of bodyweight exercises, considering every single gym I have went to, advocated it first and then weight training second.

Thank's for helping me check myself, sometimes I find more enjoyment in defending an arguement simply from egoism, rather than step back, realize I could be wrong, and use my head to think about it.

So now I would like to rephrase my original post with a new viewpoint. *ahem*

Alot of fighters, professional and amatuer, do a great deal of bodyweight exercises for a high level of fitness, and weight training can either be treated as a workout supplement, or skipped entirely if the person does not recieve enjoyable and applicable results. But, no matter what, do what works for you, even if someone tells you different.

u must be alla fking crazy..how the **** can u say u train without some weight lifting? sht i think it's a part of the training as well as others and if u don't know how to do it let me say do at least 20 x 3 and then do 2-3 rounds boxing with light weights (1 kg for hand ). I can tell from 58 kg up anyone has to do some weightlifting just to build up the body ..after that if u've being boxing and weightlifting for more thn 10 yrs i think u can stop it (judging by other boxers)

I said "creates a need" not "causes". In the same way that riding bicycles creates a need to day-glo clothing and isotonic water bottles, or that golfing creates a need for funny shoes.

It doesn't matter what you said create or cause, its still a false statement

Bottom line is its beneficial for you when done properly, ie no bodybuilding routines, power/strength routines will help you. Run a search and you should come up with some good information in this forum.

agreed,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yeah years ago they didn't use weights to train. But years ago they also thought attaching leaches to people with diseases would make them better. Times change, science and nutrition evolve, and there are safe ways to use weights within boxing

Check your science - leeches are back in fashion:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3858087.stm

Don't underestimate the value of ancient wisdom.

After sleeping on it yesterday and reading your post, I believe you are right. Especially when it comes to marketing weight training and all its equiptment. I gathered my info just from all the training videos I've seen of fighters, and each time I always see them with weights and using machines, but what I didn't take into account, is that most bodyweight exercises are not that interesting, and would waste film for someone making a video of a workout. My common sense also points towards lots of bodyweight exercises, considering every single gym I have went to, advocated it first and then weight training second.

Thank's for helping me check myself, sometimes I find more enjoyment in defending an arguement simply from egoism, rather than step back, realize I could be wrong, and use my head to think about it.

So now I would like to rephrase my original post with a new viewpoint. *ahem*

Alot of fighters, professional and amatuer, do a great deal of bodyweight exercises for a high level of fitness, and weight training can either be treated as a workout supplement, or skipped entirely if the person does not recieve enjoyable and applicable results. But, no matter what, do what works for you, even if someone tells you different.

I have to hand it to you man, it's not often that someone has the guts to do what you just did. Much respect and kudos :)

It doesn't matter what you said create or cause, its still a false statement

Are you seriously trying to claim that weight training is not a billion dollar industry with all the marketing that usually entails?

Check your science - leeches are back in fashion:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3858087.stm

Don't underestimate the value of ancient wisdom.



I have to hand it to you man, it's not often that someone has the guts to do what you just did. Much respect and kudos :)



Are you seriously trying to claim that weight training is not a billion dollar industry with all the marketing that usually entails?

The leeches are being used for somthing different, and is not common practice as what it once was. You're reaching wit that one: My point still stands. Science, medicine, and nutrition evolve. Obviously the way of thinking and the stubbornness of man does not.

The leeches are being used for somthing different, and is not common practice as what it once was. You're reaching wit that one: My point still stands. Science, medicine, and nutrition evolve. Obviously the way of thinking and the stubbornness of man does not.

Pumping one's body full of chemicals may be *COUGH* scientific but does not constitute nutrition or good medicine IMO.

After 7 years of heavy weight lifting I also have come to the conclusion that weights are bad for any combat sport involving fast movements, but not as bad as some may say though. You can still be fast while lifting weights but just not as fast as u could be.
Bodyweigh fitness is the only way to go.

Have you ever thought that maybe you were doing exercises inappropriate to your sport? If you wanna talk about plain speed, sprinters have incredible stride, leg turnover, etc only furthered by weight training. In the rawest sense, weight training will not make your muscles move slower.

Pumping one's body full of chemicals may be *COUGH* scientific but does not constitute nutrition or good medicine IMO.

Where am I saying that anyone needs to pump their body full of chemicals? Again, you are referring to bodybuilding which is completely different than weight training routines for boxing which the majority of elite fighters do today.

Pumping one's body full of chemicals may be *COUGH* scientific but does not constitute nutrition or good medicine IMO.

Chemicals, oh you mean like protein, creatine, vitamins, amino acids, that stuff thats found it like 99% of the population's diet?

Are you seriously trying to claim that weight training is not a billion dollar industry with all the marketing that usually entails?

Are you retarded or do you not know what you are typing. "Creating/Causing a need," do you know what a need is? I'm pretty sure I can lift then go straight to sleep. I don't NEED to take anything. I never said it wasn't its own industry.

Alls i have to say is ive been boxing for years and i havent picked up weights until two years ago and the difference in my performance is astronomical.

I look better in the ring, I fight better in the ring. And not to mention my power has never been better and i dont believe i lost any speed.

Just my two cents, you guys can throw science and whatever around but when it comes down to it in my experience weight lifitng has been great for me.

Are you retarded or do you not know what you are typing. "Creating/Causing a need," do you know what a need is? I'm pretty sure I can lift then go straight to sleep. I don't NEED to take anything. I never said it wasn't its own industry.

OK Einstein/Shakespeare, go look up the definition of both "create" and "cause" on Google, then come back here, regurgitate them, and explain why our language contains both these words if, as you have implied, they mean exactly the same thing.

I always take it as a complement when some troll calls me a retard; it means that they are intimidated by my intellect. Well anyone's intellect...

Where am I saying that anyone needs to pump their body full of chemicals? Again, you are referring to bodybuilding which is completely different than weight training routines for boxing which the majority of elite fighters do today.

No I was referring the modern medicine and the pharmaceutical industry. The human body didn't evolve to pop pills of any sort, and that includes even the humble multivitamin. It works best when extracting it's nutrition directly from live organic undoctored whole foods. And I'll start trusting Western medicine (trauma surgery excepted) when it coughs up something as clever as our own immune systems.

Chemicals, oh you mean like protein, creatine, vitamins, amino acids, that stuff thats found it like 99% of the population's diet?

Most of the populations diet consists of things like meat, vegetables, fruit, pulses, and dairy.

The things you have listed are chemicals, which can be synthesised from those foodstuffs. The human body works best when it's extracting all the THOUSANDS of nutrients it uses directly from the food as opposed to ingesting the synthetic lab made versions. Science has only identified a small number of vitamins, whose actions it understands. A tomato alone contains over 40,000 compounds that scientists suspect might be vitamins.

Currently it's possible to obtain synthetic OTC replacements for all the alleged essential items in our food, carbs, protein, minerals, vitamins, nutrients, and even enzymes can all be produced in their *COUGH* purest form, in a lab somewhere. Try living on those things for a while, like the hero of some 1950s sci-fi, and see how healthy you are after a 2 months.

Alls i have to say is ive been boxing for years and i havent picked up weights until two years ago and the difference in my performance is astronomical.

I look better in the ring, I fight better in the ring. And not to mention my power has never been better and i dont believe i lost any speed.

Just my two cents, you guys can throw science and whatever around but when it comes down to it in my experience weight lifitng has been great for me.

I'm not disputing your story, but a lot would depend on how effectively you trained in each discipline. I'm 39 and have been training for 20 years, most of them with weights, and only the last 2 years without. I'd consider myself expert in both.

A lot of my friends whom I used to lift with have subsequently been retired due to wear and tear injuries that were a direct result of weight training. The looked in good shape before, now they look like ****. I myself suffered a whole catalogue of injury over the years: the parts injured included elbows, knees, tendons, back, shoulder, and rotator cuffs (ouch). Ironically I was in the process of developing a book on "weight training for mixed martial arts" when my elbows both crapped out with tendonitis. That was the final straw...

Some of those injuries were chronic problems that slowly degenerated over several years. I've since healed them by switching to calisthenic, isometric, kinetic tension, and gymnastics. In the past two years I have never incurred any injury, other than as a result of boxing. If I could have the last 20 years again then I'd never have picked up a weight.

John Peterson: "Back then [in the old days] the Push-Up was a mainstay for boxers. Why? Because relaxed shoulders are critical to the fluid transmission of power from the hip to the fist. Anyone that has ever put on a pair of boxing gloves and climbed into the ring knows that holding your guard and punching for a few rounds can greatly exhaust the shoulders. This causes problems because a fatigued muscle is a tight muscle. Punches literally deteriorate into pushes when the deltoid muscles of the shoulder become tired."

For those of you who are unaware, John Peterson is a fitness guru that was brought up in the physical culture movement. He's never lifted weights. On his 57th birthday he performed 57 consecutive full range pull ups without resting.

He's also the guy that taught me how to heal the torn rotator cuffs, and elbow tendonitis that I had developed as a result of 18 years of weight training. If it wasn't for John I'd be one of those fat, over the hill, busted up ex-athletes, boring everyone with his stories of past glory. Instead I'm still getting in the ring 3x every week.

OK Einstein/Shakespeare, go look up the definition of both "create" and "cause" on Google, then come back here, regurgitate them, and explain why our language contains both these words if, as you have implied, they mean exactly the same thing.

I always take it as a complement when some troll calls me a retard; it means that they are intimidated by my intellect. Well anyone's intellect...




Most of the populations diet consists of things like meat, vegetables, fruit, pulses, and dairy.

The things you have listed are chemicals, which can be synthesised from those foodstuffs. The human body works best when it's extracting all the THOUSANDS of nutrients it uses directly from the food as opposed to ingesting the synthetic lab made versions. Science has only identified a small number of vitamins, whose actions it understands. A tomato alone contains over 40,000 compounds that scientists suspect might be vitamins.

Currently it's possible to obtain synthetic OTC replacements for all the alleged essential items in our food, carbs, protein, minerals, vitamins, nutrients, and even enzymes can all be produced in their *COUGH* purest form, in a lab somewhere. Try living on those things for a while, like the hero of some 1950s sci-fi, and see how healthy you are after a 2 months.





Alright omniscient being for your own ego here it is

Create -
1. to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.
2. to evolve from one's own thought or imagination, as a work of art or an invention.
3. Theater. to perform (a role) for the first time or in the first production of a play.
4. to make by investing with new rank or by designating; constitute; appoint: to create a peer.
5. to be the cause or occasion of; give rise to: The announcement created confusion.
6. to cause to happen; bring about; arrange, as by intention or design: to create a revolution; to create an opportunity to ask for a raise.

Oh wow to cause/make, its in create's definition...

Cause (verb) -
9. to be the cause of; bring about.

With the definition that you have used of create is VERY similar, almost synonymous. Are you happy, you're the troll. If you take it as compliment then I'm proud of you, usually it hurts to know the truth.

Protein is not made synthetically, I will however say that I'm not super knowledgeable in the area of general supplement manufacturing, so its safe to assume there are synthetics, but I also know some are derived from natural sources.

Anyways I did what you asked and in doing so proved you wrong, but I'm sure you'll try to change it and come at me again.

You know when you feel exhausted all the time and keep on having low grade infections or chronic pain that no amount of therapy will shift?

Well TS if you're gonna go for weight lifting, the simple concept of gravity starts applying a bit more. Meaning that when lifting anything from medium to heavy dumbells muscles in your body will tense up and your vertebrae in your back will get closer together.

Without proper streching before and after the workout it CAN affect your movement and speed on a long run. But if you want to go for it the best thing I can suggest is to get a pull up bar. Not exactly for pull ups but for the stretching after lifting. (though pull ups are a great exercise). Simple process really, if you had gravity working against you as you were lifting, grap the pull up bar and just let yourself hang there for a good while to let go of that tension that accumulated.

It works for me, I started to lift weights about 4 months ago and it didn't really affect my speed. However it's a good thing not to push it.

I dont touch weights. Calisthenics and cardio for me....

you know that doing bodyweight exercises are basically still using weights right? the clue is in the word bodyweight

The only difference is they are a hell of alot less effective than lifting weight above your bodyweight.

I'm not disputing your story, but a lot would depend on how effectively you trained in each discipline. I'm 39 and have been training for 20 years, most of them with weights, and only the last 2 years without. I'd consider myself expert in both.
The problem is, you could have been lifting for 20 years but id you're doing it wrong those 20 years count for nothing. please explain your weight program.

A lot of my friends whom I used to lift with have subsequently been retired due to wear and tear injuries that were a direct result of weight training. The looked in good shape before, now they look like ****. I myself suffered a whole catalogue of injury over the years: the parts injured included elbows, knees, tendons, back, shoulder, and rotator cuffs (ouch). Ironically I was in the process of developing a book on "weight training for mixed martial arts" when my elbows both crapped out with tendonitis. That was the final straw...
Bad technique is accountable for most weight lifting related injuries. and anyways, all sport will **** you up eventually. Many hard hitters end up with shoulder/hand problems from putting so much force through them.

oh and your rotator cuff only gets damaged in weightlifting if your deltoids can't handle the strain. obviously you were trying too much weight too soon or had improper technique.

Some of those injuries were chronic problems that slowly degenerated over several years. I've since healed them by switching to calisthenic, isometric, kinetic tension, and gymnastics. In the past two years I have never incurred any injury, other than as a result of boxing. If I could have the last 20 years again then I'd never have picked up a weight.

I highlighted those words because guess what? you're still doing weights.

..and just FYI top male gymnasts all do weights of some description.

doing pushups or bodyweights dosent make you a weightlifer neither does picking up boxing gloves or hitting the heavybag make you a boxer.

The problem is, you could have been lifting for 20 years but id you're doing it wrong those 20 years count for nothing. please explain your weight program.

You may care to review that statement after you've spent 20 years lifting weights. As for my program - what am I supposed to shoot a workout video - get a grip!

Bad technique is accountable for most weight lifting related injuries.

Bad technique is accountable for for most acute weight lifting related injuries.

and anyways, all sport will **** you up eventually. Many hard hitters end up with shoulder/hand problems from putting so much force through them.

Correct, lifting weights is accountable for most chronic weight lifting injuries.

oh and your rotator cuff only gets damaged in weightlifting if your deltoids can't handle the strain. obviously you were trying too much weight too soon or had improper technique.

It's the opposite way round. Do your homework otherwise you risk blowing your rotator cuffs.

you know that doing bodyweight exercises are basically still using weights right? the clue is in the word bodyweight & I highlighted those words because guess what? you're still doing weights.

I don't disagree that my body has a mass.

Doing weights is generally defined as grasping a weight with your hands and moving it to and from your body. Bodyweight exercise doesn't involve this. Take the pushup vs the bench press for example. In the bench press you grasp a heavy weight with your hands, lower it down to your chest, then raise it up again. A pushup involves lowering the body onto your hands then raising it back up again. While this may appear superficially similar, it is in fact the perfect opposite.

The only difference is they are a hell of alot less effective than lifting weight above your bodyweight.

So what you are saying is that the heavier the weight the more effective it is? If so then perhaps you should try isometrics, where you effectively attempt to lift the whole planet. Interestingly scientific studies have long proven that isometrics are the single best way to build strength, and produce an average strength increase of 2% per week, which is vastly superior to lifting weights. Unfortunately they don't do much for speed and power (perhaps even counter productive) and speed and power is what we need for boxing.

..and just FYI top male gymnasts all do weights of some description.

All of them? Really? Are you sure about that?

i wouldnt recommend it.

boxing is about speed and skills, lifting weights will do nothing but hurt your speed and agility. u do get stronger but it doesnt really help your punching power, in a 4 round fight strenght isnt very important. if u was a pro going 12 rounders u would need it so u wouldnt break down at the end of fights, but in a 4 rounder its basicly pointless.

there are more important things to focus on than strenght, and even if u desperately want to get stronger there are better ways than lifting weights. bodyweight exercises will be do the trick and u wont risk gettin too bulk and have to fight bigger guys or getting slower.

ppl will tell u u dont get slower from lifting but u do, it does holds back your progress in the speed department.

You may care to review that statement after you've spent 20 years lifting weights. As for my program - what am I supposed to shoot a workout video - get a grip!
no. you are supposed to post a list of all the **** you do in a typical workout. Proper programming trumps everything else.



Bad technique is accountable for for most acute weight lifting related injuries. Bad lifting is accountable for most weightlifting injuries period.



Correct, lifting weights is accountable for most chronic weight lifting injuries. correct? I didn't say that. I said if you can hit hard you are likely to develop some chronic injury


It's the opposite way round. Do your homework otherwise you risk blowing your rotator cuffs.

so strong deltoids means you ruin your rotator cuffs? WRONG. The rotator cuff is not meant to take strain at all, if you use improper technique or more weight than you can handle some of the load will be on your rotator cuffs instead of your deltoids.



Doing weights is generally defined as grasping a weight with your hands and moving it to and from your body. Bodyweight exercise doesn't involve this. Take the pushup vs the bench press for example. In the bench press you grasp a heavy weight with your hands, lower it down to your chest, then raise it up again. A pushup involves lowering the body onto your hands then raising it back up again. While this may appear superficially similar, it is in fact the perfect opposite.
your definition fails to include anything other than freeweights. Bodyweight, weight machines and plyometrics such as medicine ball throws are all using weights.



So what you are saying is that the heavier the weight the more effective it is? If so then perhaps you should try isometrics, where you effectively attempt to lift the whole planet. Interestingly scientific studies have long proven that isometrics are the single best way to build strength, and produce an average strength increase of 2% per week, which is vastly superior to lifting weights. Unfortunately they don't do much for speed and power (perhaps even counter productive) and speed and power is what we need for boxing.

1)the heavier the weight, the more strength you will build.

2)present evidence or STFU

..to all of you who think weights slow you down/make you stiff etc etc. You are idiots. I Know I can't change your minds, some people really are too stupid and beyond help.

But read these books 'Science and Practice of Strength Training' - Zatiorsky & Kraemer
'Practical Programming for Strength Training' - Mark Rippetoe

also, check out http://www.Rossboxing.com - He advocates weights for boxers.

almost ALL professional fighters use weights.. I have provided a **** ton of material for you to look at here, if you still want to say weights are bad for boxing then at the very ****in least present some evidence that isn't your opinion. *experience only counts if you post your ****ing program

i wouldnt recommend it.

boxing is about speed and skills, lifting weights will do nothing but hurt your speed and agility. u do get stronger but it doesnt really help your punching power, in a 4 round fight strenght isnt very important. if u was a pro going 12 rounders u would need it so u wouldnt break down at the end of fights, but in a 4 rounder its basicly pointless.

there are more important things to focus on than strenght, and even if u desperately want to get stronger there are better ways than lifting weights. bodyweight exercises will be do the trick and u wont risk gettin too bulk and have to fight bigger guys or getting slower.

ppl will tell u u dont get slower from lifting but u do, it does holds back your progress in the speed department.

There isn't one thing in this post that is true or makes any sense

no. you are supposed to post a list of all the **** you do in a typical workout. Proper programming trumps everything else.

&

almost ALL professional fighters use weights.. I have provided a **** ton of material for you to look at here, if you still want to say weights are bad for boxing then at the very ****in least present some evidence that isn't your opinion. *experience only counts if you post your ****ing program

Like anyone who has any long-term experience in weight training my program changed all the time. How is posting my program going to enlighten you as to whether I was using correct technique? Fact is I no longer lift weights, do not consider them relevant, and can't be assed wasting precious minutes of my life posting a meaningless program for you benefit.

Bad lifting is accountable for most weightlifting injuries period. & correct? I didn't say that. I said if you can hit hard you are likely to develop some chronic injury

Bad lifting causes acute injury such as a torn muscle, or a herniated disk. Long-term lifting causes chronic wear and tear injuries.

so strong deltoids means you ruin your rotator cuffs? WRONG. The rotator cuff is not meant to take strain at all, if you use improper technique or more weight than you can handle some of the load will be on your rotator cuffs instead of your deltoids.

I gave you a chance to google this and come up with something sensible but you have squandered it. Now you look stupid to anyone who knows anything about proper weight training. Rotator cuff injuries are primarily due to over developed deltoids at the expense of the rotator cuff muscle. The deltoid and the rotator cuff perform different functions but need to work together. A danger of weight training is that the lifter can isolate certain muscle groups such as the deltoids and train them to the virtual exclusion of the supporting muscle groups. That's why injuries occur. The lifter can get around this by focusing on compound exercises.

your definition fails to include anything other than freeweights. Bodyweight, weight machines and plyometrics such as medicine ball throws are all using weights.

I have nothing against medicine balls. Machines though are the spawn of Satan. When I was still lifting the general consensus was that machines were for poofs and real men used free weights.

1)the heavier the weight, the more strength you will build.

2)present evidence or STFU

Rather than accept my evidence why don't you just google it yourself, there's tons of information out there on isometrics.

..to all of you who think weights slow you down/make you stiff etc etc. You are idiots. I Know I can't change your minds, some people really are too stupid and beyond help.

You cannot change my mind because I have 20 years of experience and over the long haul my experience was negative. I wish I'd never picked up a weight. How many years experience do you have?

But read these books 'Science and Practice of Strength Training' - Zatiorsky & Kraemer
'Practical Programming for Strength Training' - Mark Rippetoe

I've already read both of those and many more.

also, check out http://www.Rossboxing.com - He advocates weights for boxers.

He's talking out of his ass then.

almost ALL professional fighters use weights.. I have provided a **** ton of material for you to look at here, if you still want to say weights are bad for boxing then at the very ****in least present some evidence that isn't your opinion. *experience only counts if you post your ****ing program

Correction: almost all profession fighters have used weights since boxing went into decline. Before that they didn't, and the fighters back then were a lot better. Few if any of the all time greats lifted weights. I rest my case.

ezzardfan just owned every non-believer in this thread

Like anyone who has any long-term experience in weight training my program changed all the time. How is posting my program going to enlighten you as to whether I was using correct technique? Fact is I no longer lift weights, do not consider them relevant, and can't be assed wasting precious minutes of my life posting a meaningless program for you benefit.
Actually, the changing things up all the time isn't 100% true. Powerlifters never change their exercises and they are the strongest guys around.
Post one of your many programs then?



Bad lifting causes acute injury such as a torn muscle, or a herniated disk. Long-term lifting causes chronic wear and tear injuries.
The fact is though your tendons and connective tissue strengthen through training so a proper program can limit any chronic damage caused without improper technique



I gave you a chance to google this and come up with something sensible but you have squandered it. Now you look stupid to anyone who knows anything about proper weight training. Rotator cuff injuries are primarily due to over developed deltoids at the expense of the rotator cuff muscle.
Actually they are primarily due to throwing/haymakers and other swinging movements
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotator_cuff_tear .. wikipedia isnt the most credible source but its one better than you've got



You cannot change my mind because I have 20 years of experience and over the long haul my experience was negative. I wish I'd never picked up a weight. How many years experience do you have?
10 years. for the first 6 I was doing a program without all the necessary knowledge, probably like you, but through powerlifting gyms I acquired a program that actually works, is made of a handful of compound exercises that have very low risk of injury (mainly squat, bench, deadlift, overhead press) and have convinced many others to try similar programs who have also reaped great results.

The fact is one of your previous posts said you consider yourself an expert but you're just ignorant. If you had read those books you wouldn't be so ****ed up.


Correction: almost all profession fighters have used weights since boxing went into decline. Before that they didn't, and the fighters back then were a lot better. Few if any of the all time greats lifted weights. I rest my case.
If you actually watch old fighters like dempsey and marciano they actually weren't better.. they were rougher, had smaller gloves and more rounds. The technique was pretty bad. Ali's generation did weights, to think they didn't is stupid. So many boxers claim they dont use weights.. they are full of ****.

ezzardfan just owned every non-believer in this thread

nuthugger by day, idiot by night

y and marciano they actually weren't better.. they were rougher, had smaller gloves and more rounds. The technique was pretty bad. Ali's generation did weights, to think they didn't is stupid. So many boxers claim they dont use weights.. they are full of ****.

Really?

Ali never touched weights. Read his biography, read Angelo Dundee's biography.

Joe Frazier never touched weights. Read his book "Box like the Pros", where he recounts advising his son Marvis against using weights. No weight training techniques are included in that book.

Read Ken Norton's autobiography "Going the Distance" Ken states that he never picked up a weight in his life.

I also have a copy of the book Floyd Paterson wrote with Bert Sugar, and again Floyd never touched weights.

And why oh why are you advocating a power lifting regime as being beneficial to boxing. You really want legs like tree trunks?

Here's two book recommendations for you:

Pushing Yourself to Power - John E Peterson
The Arc of Boxing - Mike Silver

Walk in the light.

You can lift weights. Nothing wrong with it. It doesn't slow you down; that's b.s.

This is true. I don't lose an ounce of speed and I lift weights too. You gotta lift correctly and in correct form and of course eat properly. You will get stronger doing this. I don't know where that myth came from that lifting weights slow you down.

Really?

Ali never touched weights. Read his biography, read Angelo Dundee's biography.

Joe Frazier never touched weights. Read his book "Box like the Pros", where he recounts advising his son Marvis against using weights. No weight training techniques are included in that book.

Read Ken Norton's autobiography "Going the Distance" Ken states that he never picked up a weight in his life.

I also have a copy of the book Floyd Paterson wrote with Bert Sugar, and again Floyd never touched weights.
Floyd Mayweather said he's never done weights and there is picture evidence to say otherwise floating around the web. Boxers will lie to get validation because weights are frowned upon.. plus even bodyweeight exercises do count as weights.

And why oh why are you advocating a power lifting regime as being beneficial to boxing. You really want legs like tree trunks?
Once again, this is powerlifting not bodybuilding .. its not what you do in the gym that makes you big in strength training its what you do in the kitchen.

plus, maximal strength increase will also increase all other forms of strength.. add that with plyometrics and you're gold.

Here's two book recommendations for you:

Pushing Yourself to Power - John E Peterson
The Arc of Boxing - Mike Silver

I will actually check these out.. see unlike you I am not ignorant