Throwing low blows and then dropping a left hook during what would conceivebly be a break to at least let the ref know hes hitting low at the very least that was some dirty *****. He deserved what he got in the Tunney rematch. Im not hating on dempsey altogether, but i am saying, how you gonna lowblow for an entire fight practically to break down an opponent and then deck his ass like that? That was just wrong

Sharkey lost to Jack Dempsey because of blatant low blows, while he was DQ'd against Max Schmeling (Dempsey look-a-like) for landing one punch below the belt.

He was winning both fights clearly before that.

I don't see the controversy about Dempsey-Tunney II since Dempsey didn't go to the neutral corner. You're not supposed to begin the count until the fighter goes to a neutral corner.

Jack Dempsey himself admitted that he lost fair and square and that he thought he was lucky to have the referee give a "long count" since people after the fight came up to him to say he was "cheated" out of a win over Tunney. He was losing badly and was never in the fight outside of the one knockdown he scored.

Jack Dempsey's career is filled with controversial fights...sadly most of them were high profile. :nonono:

Sharkey lost to Jack Dempsey because of blatant low blows, while he was DQ'd against Max Schmeling (Dempsey look-a-like) for landing one punch below the belt.

He was winning both fights clearly before that.

I don't see the controversy about Dempsey-Tunney II since Dempsey didn't go to the neutral corner. You're not supposed to begin the count until the fighter goes to a neutral corner.

Jack Dempsey himself admitted that he lost fair and square and that he thought he was lucky to have the referee give a "long count" since people after the fight came up to him to say he was "cheated" out of a win over Tunney. He was losing badly and was never in the fight outside of the one knockdown he scored.


Ironically i read it was dempsey that was pushing for the neutral corner rule. Had Dempsey gathered himself he might have actually won the crown back.

GreatA

what do you think about Wills vs Dempsey and do you have any footage online of Wills in action?

Dempsey vs Sharkey IMO shows Dempsey at his best, bobbing & weaving, slipping punches, throwing hooks, jabs, combos and the footwork of a master boxer...its a complete contrast to the Dempsey vs Willard footage where Dempsey looks to be throwing wild arm punches, infact its the improvement in technology why he looks better against Sharkey, its the improvement in cameras and film-footage whereas the Willard fight was old Flicker-Film and was difficult to make a real judgement of fighters filmed with it.. but to those who claim Dempsey was over-rated i say watch him against Sharkey

Dempsey vs Sharkey IMO shows Dempsey at his best, bobbing & weaving, slipping punches, throwing hooks, jabs, combos and the footwork of a master boxer...its a complete contrast to the Dempsey vs Willard footage where Dempsey looks to be throwing wild arm punches, infact its the improvement in technology why he looks better against Sharkey, its the improvement in cameras and film-footage whereas the Willard fight was old Flicker-Film and was difficult to make a real judgement of fighters filmed with it.. but to those who claim Dempsey was over-rated i say watch him against Sharkey

I didint say or imply he was overrated.

Also, he threw wild punches against willard because he knew willard had no shot of actually moving out of the way. Willard was too robotic to contend with that.

Jack Dempsey was a Beast in the Ring

Ironically i read it was dempsey that was pushing for the neutral corner rule. Had Dempsey gathered himself he might have actually won the crown back.

GreatA

what do you think about Wills vs Dempsey and do you have any footage online of Wills in action?

I don't really know about Wills vs Dempsey. The early reports from the 1910's describe Wills as fast and athletic for his size, but as he got older he was described as slow, sluggish by the mid 1920's when he was closing 40 years of age. The fight would have been ideal in 1919 when both were at their best.

Here's footage of near 40 year old Wills being KO'd by Paulino Uzcudun:

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8:40

Footage of a younger Harry Wills hoping to get a shot at Dempsey:

<h2>WHIRLWIND WILLS WINS </h2><iframe src="http://www.britishpathe.com/embed.php?archive=21124" name="pathe_flash_embed" width="352" height="264" scrolling="no" frameborder="1"><p>Your browser does not support iframes.</p></iframe>

I don't really know about Wills vs Dempsey. The early reports from the 1910's describe Wills as fast and athletic for his size, but as he got older he was described as slow, sluggish by the mid 1920's when he was closing 40 years of age. The fight would have been ideal in 1919 when both were at their best.

Here's footage of near 40 year old Wills being KO'd by Paulino Uzcudun:

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8:40

Footage of a younger Harry Wills hoping to get a shot at Dempsey:

<h2>WHIRLWIND WILLS WINS </h2><iframe src="http://www.britishpathe.com/embed.php?archive=21124" name="pathe_flash_embed" width="352" height="264" scrolling="no" frameborder="1"><p>Your browser does not support iframes.</p></iframe>

i think Dempsey would have slaughtered Wills, old fight magazines and books from that era talk about the greatness of Jack Dempsey not the greatness of Harry Wills

i think Dempsey would have slaughtered Wills, old fight magazines and books from that era talk about the greatness of Jack Dempsey not the greatness of Harry Wills

Wills was still great enough so that no one wanted to step in the ring with him for a long time. When you look at the names he beat compared to Dempsey, one has to admit that Wills has the better resume of the two.

I believe the aging Wills could have been a good match-up for Dempsey but it's difficult to say. Dempsey also went on the decline after his Willard win and doesn't look highly impressive against Firpo, Gibbons. He was hit a lot against Firpo, Carpentier, Brennan and a 6'3, 210+ lb man with 54 career knockouts was surely a threat to him, more so than the natural light heavyweights Dempsey defended his title against.

Wills was still great enough so that no one wanted to step in the ring with him for a long time. When you look at the names he beat compared to Dempsey, one has to admit that Wills has the better resume of the two.

I believe the aging Wills could have been a good match-up for Dempsey but it's difficult to say. Dempsey also went on the decline after his Willard win and doesn't look highly impressive against Firpo, Gibbons. He was hit a lot against Firpo, Carpentier, Brennan and a 6'3, 210+ lb man with 54 career knockouts was surely a threat to him, more so than the natural light heavyweights Dempsey defended his title against.

Firpo measured up to Wills in hieght and size and was `massacred`by Dempsey, i could not see Wills lasting much longer... Wills fought Firpo in 1924 and by all reports is was a lacklustre, boring fight that ended in No-decision after 12rds..

Firpo measured up to Wills in hieght and size and was `massacred`by Dempsey, i could not see Wills lasting much longer... Wills fought Firpo in 1924 and by all reports is was a lacklustre, boring fight that ended in No-decision after 12rds..

Firpo was no Wills though and Dempsey was knocked down three times against Firpo and also out of the ring.

Wills dominated Firpo and knocked him down.

Firpo was no Wills though and Dempsey was knocked down three times against Firpo and also out of the ring.

Wills dominated Firpo and knocked him down.

Firpo fought Wills 12 months after he fought Dempsey and was overweight and out of shape..the newspaper described it

Having reached the heights of international acclaim and created front page news the world over, Firpo returned triumphantly to Argentina. Between February and April, 1924 he fought three mediocre opponents in Buenos Aires, winning all of those bouts by knockout. On September 11, 1924, at Boyle's Thirty Acres he fought Harry Wills, his first world-class opponent since Dempsey. The newspapers described the fight as dreadfully boring, a dull affair in which Wills go the better of the action but failed to impress. Wills was better throughout, but decisions were still outlawed in New Jersey, the official result, after twelve rounds, was a no-decision. Two months later, in a bout with Charley Weinert, the story was nearly identical. Again Firpo came into the ring displaying nothing resembling fighting shape. After twelve rounds and another no-decision the general idea was that Weinert deserved to win.

Firpo fought Wills 12 months after he fought Dempsey and was overweight and out of shape..the newspaper described it

Having reached the heights of international acclaim and created front page news the world over, Firpo returned triumphantly to Argentina. Between February and April, 1924 he fought three mediocre opponents in Buenos Aires, winning all of those bouts by knockout. On September 11, 1924, at Boyle's Thirty Acres he fought Harry Wills, his first world-class opponent since Dempsey. The newspapers described the fight as dreadfully boring, a dull affair in which Wills go the better of the action but failed to impress. Wills was better throughout, but decisions were still outlawed in New Jersey, the official result, after twelve rounds, was a no-decision. Two months later, in a bout with Charley Weinert, the story was nearly identical. Again Firpo came into the ring displaying nothing resembling fighting shape. After twelve rounds and another no-decision the general idea was that Weinert deserved to win.

In that case more than half of Harry Greb's wins should be considered no-decisions too.

Newspapers reported that Wills clearly won 11 of the 12 rounds, if not all of them. It wasn't an exciting win but a win nonetheless, and an easy win at that. Otherwise we would have to discredit most of Wladimir Klitschko's wins.

Firpo generally weighed 217-225 so it's difficult to say he was out of shape and he was 5 years younger than Wills. I don't think much of his fighting abilities and he didn't come close to beating Wills so I don't really see the comparisons between the two. Wills was more dangerous for Dempsey than Firpo, and Firpo did have Dempsey down three times and sent him out of the ring.

Wills also KO'd Charley Weinert, a top contender of the era, in just two rounds after the Firpo win.

In that case more than half of Harry Greb's wins should be considered no-decisions too.

Newspapers reported that Wills clearly won 11 of the 12 rounds, if not all of them. It wasn't an exciting win but a win nonetheless, and an easy win at that. Otherwise we would have to discredit most of Wladimir Klitschko's wins.

Firpo generally weighed 217-225 so it's difficult to say he was out of shape and he was 5 years younger than Wills. I don't think much of his fighting abilities and he didn't come close to beating Wills so I don't really see the comparisons between the two. Wills was more dangerous for Dempsey than Firpo, and Firpo did have Dempsey down three times and sent him out of the ring.

Wills also KO'd Charley Weinert, a top contender of the era, in just two rounds after the Firpo win.

you are misunderstanding what i am trying to say.. the newspaper report clearly says that the fight was "DREADFULLY BORING, A DULL AFFAIR"- Jack Dempsey was proberbly the most agressive fighting machine of his era and having seen footage of Harry Wills i cannot go along with the line "Dempsey avoided him" or that he would beat Dempsey.. and as i said earlier old ring magazines do not mention Harry Wills as some mythical fighting machine who the heavyweight champion was afraid to fight... it was the colour-line that was drawn at that period in time.

There was more to it than just the "colour-line" and I don't see why anyone would defend such a thing.

Dempsey, or atleast his management, demanded more and more money after every offer from Wills, at times stated that they would never give Wills a shot and then said they seriously considered it due to public backlash. Eventually the New York commission barred Dempsey from fighting there if he didn't defend his title against Wills. It was a mess and Dempsey should have simply come out and said he'll fight Wills without "hiding" behind his managers and trying to be a Hollywood star without defending his world title.

There are a lot of sides to the story of course but I believe Dempsey could have pushed a bit more to make the fight happen, but he was content on sitting on his title. Certainly no one can criticize Wills for not putting forth the effort to make the fight happen.

As for Wills not being considered a threat:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=6DImAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Pv4FAAAAIBAJ&dq=harry%20wills%20jack%20dempsey&pg=3145%2C6750777

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hHkLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=h1QDAAAAIBAJ&dq=harry%20wills%20jack%20dempsey%20new%20york&pg=2401%2C2740322

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=xQkvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8KMFAAAAIBAJ&dq=harry%20wills%20jack%20dempsey%20new%20york&pg=1595%2C470373

There was more to it than just the "colour-line" and I don't see why anyone would defend such a thing.

Dempsey, or atleast his management, demanded more and more money after every offer from Wills, at times stated that they would never give Wills a shot and then said they seriously considered it due to public backlash. Eventually the New York commission barred Dempsey from fighting there if he didn't defend his title against Wills. It was a mess and Dempsey should have simply come out and said he'll fight Wills without "hiding" behind his managers and trying to be a Hollywood star without defending his world title.

There are a lot of sides to the story of course but I believe Dempsey could have pushed a bit more to make the fight happen, but he was content on sitting on his title. Certainly no one can criticize Wills for not putting forth the effort to make the fight happen.

As for Wills not being considered a threat:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=6DImAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Pv4FAAAAIBAJ&dq=harry%20wills%20jack%20dempsey&pg=3145%2C6750777

i never said Wills was not a threat.. i said Dempsey was not running afraid of him

Dempsey is one of those guys that has the reptuation of being a dirty fighter if its just or unjust we will likely never know? Many thought it was fishy when he KOd Battling Levinsky; a fighter who never was knocked out. His destruction of Jess Willard once again put out the loaded gloves theory out. Doc kearns claimed he put the plaster of paris in order to wager the entire purse on a first rd ko; but others dispute his gloves were loaded.