It would be great if some of the history posters in here could help fill in some blanks for me. It's one thing to read about him in Wiki, or other places, but you guys have a lot of the background knowledge that isn't exactly in these common articles. I have basic common knowledge on the man... have read some of his career specifics and seen footage of his fights, but wish to learn more in depth knowledge about him...

I suppose the biggest questions I have:



1. What was his single greatest accomplishment?



2. Who were his BIGGEST wins?

a. How old were they?

b. What wins did THEY have?

c. Were they prime? If so, where were they ranked at the time?



3. What sets SRR aside from the other TOP ATGs?



4. Do you think he will ever be surpassed on the ATG list? And if so, what would that said fighter have to accomplish? (I realize this is a highly opinionated question)



5. Why would you rank SRR OVER Henry Armstrong? (Feel free to list facts about Armstrongs career)



6. Physical: Why is it so hard to beat SRR in mythical matchups? What were his greatest strengths?



Thanks for anyone who can fill in some of these blanks... I just feel as a huge boxing fan I don't know enough about the greatest fighter of all time.

The the majority of the boxing world feel Ray Robinson is the greatest prizefighter of all time and for good reason. Ray Leonard once said ''A lot of people say there was a comparision between Sugar Ray Robinson and Sugar Ray Leonard.'' ''Belive me, the was no comparison''

Max Schmeling, Ike Williams, and Muhhamad Ali all said Robinson was The Greatest Fighter Of All Time.

Legendary trainer Ray Arcel speaking on Robinson ''He was a fistic genius'' ''He had grace and rhythm''. ''He could hit and not get hit'' ''You got such pleasure watching him'':'' People used to go to the gym just to watch him shadowbox''

Robinson's resume of victories, consistencey, and skills combined are unmatched in the history of boxing. Robinson's sole loss in his first 132 bouts was to fellow All Time Great Jake Lamotta, which he avenged 5 times.

Nat Fleischer once wrote in Ring Magazine “Robinson hit the spotlight as the greatest all around fighter, pound for pound, in any division.” They have been saying it about Robinson ever since. The term “pound for pound” has come to exemplify the stature of Ray Robinson as the greatest fighter in boxing history.

Robinson had it all. Magnificent footwork, balance, co-ordination, rhythm, reflexes, precision, extremly fast hands and feet, vicious killer instinct, knockout power, anvil chin, stamina, and ring generalship.

Robinson(whose real name was Walker Smith)at his peak was a near perfect fighting machine.

He was number one ranked Lightweight Contender and defeated Champion Sammy Angott in a non title affair. He was never beaten as a Lightweight.

He cleaned out the Welterweight divsion and was never beaten at that weight class. Robinson is often credited with being the best Welterweight of al time.

He won the Middleweight Title a record 5 times. In 1994 Ring Magazine rated Robinson as the greatest Middleweight of all time.

Robinson also came only a whisker away from winning the Light Heavyweight in 1952. Whilst weighing under the Middleweight limt.

The record book says that Robinson lost by a technical knockout in 14 rounds to Hall Of Famer Joey Maxim.

But the real story is the heat. It was so hot that day at Yankee Stadium the temperature was 104 degrees on the ring apron. The heat was so hot that night, referee Ruby Goldstein on the verge of collapsing quit after the 10th round. And was replaced by fellow referee Ray Miller.

Robinson boxed a great fight against Maxim. As he danced around Maxim beating him to the punch everytime. Dazzaling him with speed, fotwork and skills, working his strategy to perfection. But this was also expending alot of energy in process.

Even the people in the crowd were drenched in sweat. ''The pants of some of the men were soaking, as if they had wet themselves'' ''No matter were you sat it was scorching hot'' recalled writer Carl Jefferson.

One of the main reasons Maxim won that fight was, due to using his weight advanatge. He leaned on Ray alot, which took alot out of Robinson. Which to Maxim's credit was a great gameplan.

It would be the only ever time in Robinson's career that he would be stopped inside the distance.

Robinson fought 18 World Champions and defeated 10 Hall of Famers.

His resume of victories is argubaly the best in the history of boxing in a career that spanned three decades.

Ray Robinson's Resume Of Wins
-Pete Lello
-Sammy Angott
-Marty Servo (42-0)
-Fritzie Zivic
-Jake LaMotta
-Izzy Jannazzo
-Al Nettlow
-California Jackie Wilson
-Ralph Zannelli
-Henry Armstrong
-Tommy Bell
-Cecil Hudson
-Kid Gavilan
-Steve Belloise
-George Costner
-Robert Villemain
-Charley Fusari
-Jose Basora
-Bobo Olson
-Bobby Dykes
-Cyrille Delannoit
-Randy Turpin
-Rocky Graziano
-Gene Fullmer
-Carmen Basilio
-Denny Moyer

Named The Ring Fighter of the Year for 1942 and 1951.......

^^^ Great read thanks!

This has been gone over a million times, I suggest doing a search on Robinson in this section.

What JFBH_162 said sums up why Robinson was the greatest.

Name me a person who won the WBA Welterweight, WBC Super Welterweight, The Ring Super Welterweight, WBC Middleweight, WBC + WBA Light Heavyweight, and WBU + IBO Cruiserweight titles.....

and I will show you a person who is REALLY the G.O.A.T

Think you missed the super middle title (WBO?) out there :)

Name me a person who won the WBA Welterweight, WBC Super Welterweight, The Ring Super Welterweight, WBC Middleweight, WBC + WBA Light Heavyweight, and WBU + IBO Cruiserweight titles.....

and I will show you a person who is REALLY the G.O.A.T

You forgot WBO Super Middleweight. And as much as I love Tommy Hearns (I even rate him higher than Leonard), he's far from the GOAT. If he didn't have a weak chin he'd be in the running for sure tho.

You forgot WBO Super Middleweight. And as much as I love Tommy Hearns (I even rate him higher than Leonard), he's far from the GOAT. If he didn't have a weak chin he'd be in the running for sure tho.

You rate Hearns higher than Leonard? Wow.......Interesting to say the least. I just don't see it.

You rate Hearns higher than Leonard? Wow.......Interesting to say the least. I just don't see it.

Tommy's accomplishments at LHW and JMW are too great to ignore. He also didn't duck, dodge, and pick his spots when it came to making fights happen.

I'm a huge Hearns fan, problem I have with putting him as the GOAT or in those lofty reaches was that he was never the dominant champion at any of those weights.
Think he might have been about the best light middle around but i'd have liked him to have beaten McCallum to cement that.

Tommy's accomplishments at LHW and JMW are too great to ignore. He also didn't duck, dodge, and pick his spots when it came to making fights happen.

Leonard was also a 5 weight world champion. His resume of wins is also stronger than Hearns. And when they fought prime for prime, Leoanrd stopped him.

I just Leonard was the better overall fighter, with the greater legacy. And proved when beating Hearns, and Hagler, something which Tommy cound't do. Leonard also defeated Benitez more impressivley.

And lets not forget Leonard was also the number #1 154lb in the world.

I just don't see how Hearns can be rated above Leoanrd personally.

Leonard was also a 5 weight world champion. His resume of wins is also stronger than Hearns. And when they fought prime for prime, Leoanrd stopped him.

I just Leonard was the better overall fighter, with the greater legacy. And proved when beating Hearns, and Hagler, something which Tommy cound't do. Leonard also defeated Benitez more impressivley.

And lets not forget Leonard was also the number #1 154lb in the world.

I just don't see how Hearns can be rated above Leoanrd personally.

Leonard is a 4 weight world champion really. Man wins the SMW and LHW title at the same time? Real legit. People made a big enough fuss over Pac forcing Cotto to come down to 145, imagine if he made him come down to 140.

Hearns was ahead on my scorecards against Leonard in both fights. In both fights he was drained. This I cannot over look.

Hearns broke his hand against Hagler in the first round. Nearly stopped Hagler on cuts. On the other hand, even Leonard's wife didn't think he beat Hagler. This I also can't overlook. Not to mention Hearns fought a superior Hagler.

Hearns also beat a better Duran. Hell Hearns resume is just a lot better period really.

Notable wins for Hearns
Clyde Gray <past his prime>
Harold Weston
Bruce Curry
Saensak Muangsurin
Angel Espada <past his prime>
Pipino Cuevas <past his prime>
Wilfred Benitez
Murray Sutherland
Luigi Minchillo
Roberto Duran
Mark Medal
Doug DeWitt
Dennis Andries
Juan Domingo Roldan
James Kinchen
Virgil Hill
Nate Miller

Notable wins for Leonard
Floyd Mayweather
Armando Muniz
Wilfred Benitez
Dave Green
Roberto Duran (x2)
Ayub Kalule
Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Donny Lalonde

How past it fighters do matters to me. Some people simply don't get around to fully prove themselves when they're prime. Shane Mosley is a good modern example. Margarito is the second best opponent he ever defeated, yet he was 37 at the time.

this has been gone over a million times, i suggest doing a search on robinson in this section.

1,000,001.

great thread, pity no one wants to answer the question as to how prime the fighters robinson fought were, and how they were ranked at the time

i would think prime mike tyson should be high on the pound for pound list

i would think prime mike tyson should be high on the pound for pound list

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

great thread, pity no one wants to answer the question as to how prime the fighters robinson fought were, and how they were ranked at the time

It's because it's been answered a million times. I'll copy one of my old posts just for you tho....

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/images/robinson-sugar-ray-22.jpg


Undefeated Amateur Featherweight Golden Gloves Champion
Undefeated Amateur Lightweight Golden Gloves Champion
Undefeated & Uncrowned Lightweight Champion
Undefeated Welterweight Champion
5 Time World Middleweight Champion
And Nearly the Light Heavyweight Champion


Amateur Career:


Overall, Robinson had an open record of 85-0, winning both the Featherweight and Lightweight Golden Gloves Championships in the process. 65 of the wins came by KO, 40 of which took place in the first round.


Lightweight Career:


You're probably asking yourself, “What Lightweight career?”. Although a brief one, Robinson did in fact have a substantial Lightweight career. He beat the NBA and soon to be World Lightweight Champion (Sammy Angott) after all, whilst maintaining a record of 21-0 with 18 KOs. His additional notable opponents included Pete Lello and Maxie Shapiro.


Welterweight Career:


As a Welterweight, Robinson was undefeated. Going against the likes of Fritzie Zivic, Henry Armstrong, and Kid Gavilan, this was an impressive feat. Counting Robinson's actual amount of Welterweight fights is rather tricky considering he often mixed it up with Middleweights as well. Nonetheless I have calculated that it was about 58 fights. He won them all without draws, and did so with no real controversial victories, the closest to controversy being the first fight with Kid Gavilan. It's also important to note that whilst still being a natural Welterweight, Robinson had beat Jake LaMotta 4 out of 5 times.


Middleweight Career:


Robinson's MW Record before becoming World Champion for the 1st time
*Includes his winning of the title
*Fighters in bold are notable

Wins:
Jake LaMotta (x5)
Vic Dellicurti (x3)
Lou Woods
Jose Basora
Jimmy Mandell
Tony Riccio
Freddie Flores (x2)
Freddie Wilson (x2)
Vinnie Vines
Artie Levine
Georgie Abrams
Eddie Finazzo
Ossie Harris (x2)
Henry Brimm (x2)
Don Lee (x2)
Earl Turner
Cecil Hudson (x2)
Steve Belloise
Charley Dodson
Aaron Wade
Cliff Beckett (x2)
Ray Barnes
Robert Villemain (x2)
Billy Brown
Joe Rindone
Bobo Olson
Jean Stock
Luc van Dam
Hans Stretz

Losses:
Jake LaMotta II

Draws:
Jose Basora
Henry Brimm

That's 43 Middleweight wins with only 1 loss and 2 draws upon winning the World Championship.


Robinson's MW Record from after winning the title for the 1st time to losing it for the last time
*Does not include his first winning of the title
*Does not include his last loss of the title
*Fighters in bold are notable

Wins:
Holley Mims
Don Ellis
Kid Marcel
Jean Wanes
Jan de Bruin
Jean Walzack
Gerhard Hecht (Although declared a NC, for all intensive purposes it's a win)
Cyrille Delannoit
Randy Turpin
Bobo Olson (x3)
Rocky Graziano
Joe Rindone
Johnny Lombardo
Ted Olla
Garth Panter
Rocky Castellani
Bob Provizzi
Gene Fullmer
Carmen Basilio
Bob Young

Losses:
Randy Turpin I
Joey Maxim
Ralph Jones
Gene Fullmer I
Carmen Basilio I


That's 22 Middleweight wins with 5 losses, but 1 was at LHW.

So lets do some math here, 46 + 26 = 72. Robinson essentially had 72 Middleweight fights before you could officially label him as washed up (when he finally lost his MW title for the last time). Of those 72 fights, he won 65, lost 5, and drew twice. One loss came in a fight where he was outweighed by 16 lbs, and three came after he returned from retirement. Randy Turpin's win over Robinson is perhaps the only really meaningful one. Yet when Turpin beat Robinson, Ray had already previously had 132 professional bouts. Everyone who beat Robinson, aside from Tiger Jones (who caught Robinson nearly just out of retirement), was a great fighter. The names on his resume speak for themselves, the man truly was the greatest.


Robinson's Unquantified-but-Detailed Complete Career Resume:

*Info below uses Ring Annual Ratings
*Hall of Famers in bold

Pete Lello (#3 LW – 1940)
Sammy Angott (#1 LW – 1940, LW Champ – 1941, #2 LW – 1943, #8 WW – 1945)
Maxie Shapiro (#8 LW – 1942)
Marty Servo [Undefeated] (WW Champ – 1946)
Fritzie Zivic (WW Champ – 1940, #3 WW – 1941, #8 WW 1942)
Maxie Berger (JWW Champ – 1939, #6 WW – 1940)
Norman Rubio (#10 WW – 1941)
Reuben Shank (#8 MW – 1943)
Tony Motisi (#9 WW – 1942)
Jake LaMotta (#6 MW – 1942, #1 MW – 1943, #2 MW – 1944, #3 MW – 1945, #1 MW – 1946)
(#5 MW – 1947, #3 MW – 1948, MW Champ – 1949 & 1950)
Izzy Janazzo (#2 WW – 1940, #8 WW – 1941 & 1943)
Vic Dellicurti (#10 MW – 1944)
Al Nettlow (couple close fights with Bob Montgomery, beat Maxie Berger)
California Jackie Wilson (#2 WW – 1941, #3 WW – 1942)
Ralph Zannelli (#5 WW – 1943, #4 WW – 1947)
Henry Armstrong (WW Champ – 1938 & 1939, #1 WW – 1940, #2 WW – 1942, #1 WW – 1944)
Sheik Rangel (#10 WW – 1942)
George Martin (beat Ralph Zannelli, Garvey Young, V. Vines, Pedro Montanez, Battling Battalino, Andy Callahan)
Tommy Bell (#1 WW – 1946, #2 WW – 1947)
George Costner (#5 WW – 1947, #2 WW – 1949)
Jimmy McDaniels (#4 WW – 1944)
O'Neill Bell (just beat George Costner, Jackie Wilson, and Fritzie Zivic back to back to back)
Joe Curcio (beat Fritzie Zivic, Cecil Hudson, and Johnny Green)
Vinnie Vines (beat Sam Baroudi and Jackie Alzek)
Ossie Harris (beat Tommy Bell, Reuben Shank, and Fritzie Zivic)
Cecil Hudson (beat Tommy Bell, Fritzie Zivic, Freddie Dixon, Ossie Harris, & Sheik Rangel)
Artie Levine (beat Jimmy Doyle, Marvin Bryant, Vic Dellicurti, Herbie Kronowitz, & Joe Agosta)
Georgie Abrams (#5 MW – 1946)
Jimmy Doyle (#2 WW – 1945, #7 WW – 1946)
Billy Nixon (beat Johnny Green, Buster Tyler, & Johnny Hutchinson)
Chuck Taylor (beat Frankie Abrams, Tony Pellone, and Honeychile Johnson)
Henry Brimm (beat Vic Dellicurti, Holman Williams, Joey DeJohn, Arte Towne, & Tony Elizondo)
Bernard Docusen (#3 WW – 1948 & 1949)
Kid Gavilan (#1 WW – 1948, 1949, 1950, & 1951, WW Champ – 1952 & 1953)
Bobby Lee (beat Livio Minelli, Billy Nixon, Nava Esparza, Dorsey Lay, Honeychile Johnson, Chico Varona, & Gene Burton)
Don Lee (beat Jimmy McDaniels, Vince Foster, Sheik Rangel, Joe Danos, Howard Bleyhl, Billy Tierney)
Earl Turner (beat Sheik Rangel, Fred Apostoli, Cecil Hudson, Cocoa Kid, Don Lee, Jackie Wilson, George Costner, George Duke, etc)
Steve Belloise (#2 MW – 1948, #5 MW – 1949)
Al Mobley (beat Fritzie Zivic, Georgie Benton, Honeychile Johnson, George Martin, Sylvester Perkins, Otis Graham, & Bert Linam)
Aaron Wade (#7 MW – 1945)
Ray Barnes (#7 MW – 1950)
Robert Villemain (#3 MW – 1949, #8 MW – 1950, #9 MW – 1951)
Charley Fusari (#3 WW – 1950, #8 WW – 1951)
Jose Basora (#4 MW – 1943 & 1944)
Joe Rindone (beat Ralph Zannelli, Paul Pender, Bob Murphy, Pierre Langlois, Joe Blackwood, Charley Zivic, & Henry Lee)
Bobo Olson (#3 MW – 1952, MW Champ – 1953 & 1954, #1 MW – 1955)
Bobby Dykes (#2 WW – 1952, #5 MW – 1953)
Jean Stock (beat Randy Turpin, Bobby Dawson, Omar Kouidri, Cyrille Delannoit, Robert Charron, Edouard Tenet)
Luc van Dam (beat Jean Stock, Cyrille Delannoit, Jacques Royer Crecy, Albert Finch, Bep van Klaveren, & Felix Wouters)
Hans Stretz (beat Randy Turpin, Jacques Royer Crecy, Al Mobley, Peter Mueller, Rudi Pepper)
(Carl Schmidt, Heinz Sanger, Alex Buxton, Johnny Sullivan, Franco Festucci)
Holley Mims (#8 MW – 1953, #3 MW – 1954, #6 MW – 1955)
Cyrille Delannoit (#5 MW – 1948)
Randy Turpin (#1 MW – 1951 & 1952, MW Champ – 1951)
Rocky Graziano (#3 MW – 1946, MW Champ – 1947, #10 MW – 1948 & 1951)
Garth Panter (beat Pierre Langlois, Walter Cartier, and Earl Turner)
Rocky Castellani (#1 MW – 1953, #2 MW – 1954, #5 MW – 1955)
Gene Fullmer (#1 MW – 1956, MW Champ – 1957, #2 MW – 1957 & 1958, #1 MW – 1959, 1960, 1961, & 1962)
Carmen Basilio (WW Champ – 1955 & 1956, MW Champ – 1957, #1 MW – 1958)
Denny Moyer (#9 MW – 1961, #6 MW – 1962, JMW Champ – 1963, #9 MW – 1968, #2 MW – 1969)
Ralph Dupas (#2 WW – 1961, #3 WW – 1962, #4 WW – 1963, JMW Champ – 1963)
Yoland Leveque (beat Bennie Briscoe, Jacques Marty, Art Hernandez, & Bo Hogberg)

It would be great if some of the history posters in here could help fill in some blanks for me. It's one thing to read about him in Wiki, or other places, but you guys have a lot of the background knowledge that isn't exactly in these common articles. I have basic common knowledge on the man... have read some of his career specifics and seen footage of his fights, but wish to learn more in depth knowledge about him...

I suppose the biggest questions I have:



1. What was his single greatest accomplishment?



2. Who were his BIGGEST wins?

a. How old were they?

b. What wins did THEY have?

c. Were they prime? If so, where were they ranked at the time?



3. What sets SRR aside from the other TOP ATGs?



4. Do you think he will ever be surpassed on the ATG list? And if so, what would that said fighter have to accomplish? (I realize this is a highly opinionated question)



5. Why would you rank SRR OVER Henry Armstrong? (Feel free to list facts about Armstrongs career)



6. Physical: Why is it so hard to beat SRR in mythical matchups? What were his greatest strengths?



Thanks for anyone who can fill in some of these blanks... I just feel as a huge boxing fan I don't know enough about the greatest fighter of all time.


I don't consider him the greatest. My money is on Ali. not because Ali proclaimed it, but because of Ali's resume. He fought damn near everyone and came out on top as some point or another. He fought the best heavyweights ever to grace the ring. He overcame odds by the handfull.


Robinson has a great resume, but a lot of it comes from the amount of fights he had, which I don't consider a good gauge for greatness. There are 2 many spots available for the no.2 spot so I won't answer that.

Leonard is a 4 weight world champion really. Man wins the SMW and LHW title at the same time? Real legit. People made a big enough fuss over Pac forcing Cotto to come down to 145, imagine if he made him come down to 140.

Hearns was ahead on my scorecards against Leonard in both fights. In both fights he was drained. This I cannot over look.

Hearns broke his hand against Hagler in the first round. Nearly stopped Hagler on cuts. On the other hand, even Leonard's wife didn't think he beat Hagler. This I also can't overlook. Not to mention Hearns fought a superior Hagler.

Hearns also beat a better Duran. Hell Hearns resume is just a lot better period really.

Notable wins for Hearns
Clyde Gray <past his prime>
Harold Weston
Bruce Curry
Saensak Muangsurin
Angel Espada <past his prime>
Pipino Cuevas <past his prime>
Wilfred Benitez
Murray Sutherland
Luigi Minchillo
Roberto Duran
Mark Medal
Doug DeWitt
Dennis Andries
Juan Domingo Roldan
James Kinchen
Virgil Hill
Nate Miller

Notable wins for Leonard
Floyd Mayweather
Armando Muniz
Wilfred Benitez
Dave Green
Roberto Duran (x2)
Ayub Kalule
Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Donny Lalonde

How past it fighters do matters to me. Some people simply don't get around to fully prove themselves when they're prime. Shane Mosley is a good modern example. Margarito is the second best opponent he ever defeated, yet he was 37 at the time.

You're way to bitter about me asking some specific questions... The very first person that posts in here didn't have the slightest problem with giving me some info. If you don't like thread, you don't have to be in here.

Thanks for your input anyways.

You're way to bitter about me asking some specific questions... The very first person that posts in here didn't have the slightest problem with giving me some info. If you don't like thread, you don't have to be in here.

Thanks for your input anyways.

Agreed........

You're way to bitter about me asking some specific questions... The very first person that posts in here didn't have the slightest problem with giving me some info. If you don't like thread, you don't have to be in here.

Thanks for your input anyways.

.........

You do realize what you quoted when you wrote this, right? The quote and the reply have nothing to do with each other, at all.

.........

You do realize what you quoted when you wrote this, right? The quote and the reply have nothing to do with each other, at all.

Who cares what I quoted. You know what I was referring to, and so did cotto16.

There can never be enough talk about Ray Robinson's greatness. However a lot of what I'd have to say has already been covered here.

What sets him apart from Henry Armstrong for me is his longevity. Armstrong had a short peak during which he accomplished more than just about any fighter in history. Robinson however remained a top fighter for decades.

Also on film he had more dimensions than Armstrong who was a great pressure fighter. Robinson could box, he could move, he could punch, he could slug it out and put the pressure on your and fight in close if he had to. Of course he was mainly a boxer-puncher and a mover but he could adapt his style according to his opposition.

The win Robinson has over Armstrong doesn't mean all that much for me. Not that Armstrong was truly shot, he was still the number 1 ranked contender in the division and beat many very good fighters even at that stage, but he had everything going against him against the younger, faster, bigger Ray Robinson.

Who cares what I quoted. You know what I was referring to, and so did cotto16.

cotto16 is also on record for calling me "the worst poster in the history section".

I'm not the bitter guy in all this. I just pointed out that there's a search function on this forum, and it works.

just to add...SSR once fought five times in one month in four different countries....WOW! think of fighters today doing this!

There can never be enough talk about Ray Robinson's greatness. However a lot of what I'd have to say has already been covered here.

What sets him apart from Henry Armstrong for me is his longevity. Armstrong had a short peak during which he accomplished more than just about any fighter in history. Robinson however remained a top fighter for decades.

Also on film he had more dimensions than Armstrong who was a great pressure fighter. Robinson could box, he could move, he could punch, he could slug it out and put the pressure on your and fight in close if he had to. Of course he was mainly a boxer-puncher and a mover but he could adapt his style according to his opposition.

The win Robinson has over Armstrong doesn't mean all that much for me. Not that Armstrong was truly shot, he was still the number 1 ranked contender in the division and beat many very good fighters even at that stage, but he had everything going against him against the younger, faster, bigger Ray Robinson.

Great information... thanks for taking the time.

Great information... thanks for taking them time.

some great posts in this thread, espcailly from A and the JFBH162!

some great posts in this thread, espcailly from A and the JFBH162!

Definitely... getting a much better understanding now..

T

Ray Robinson's Resume Of Wins
-Pete Lello
-Sammy Angott
-Marty Servo (42-0)
-Fritzie Zivic
-Jake LaMotta
-Izzy Jannazzo
-Al Nettlow
-California Jackie Wilson
-Ralph Zannelli
-Henry Armstrong
-Tommy Bell
-Cecil Hudson
-Kid Gavilan
-Steve Belloise
-George Costner
-Robert Villemain
-Charley Fusari
-Jose Basora
-Bobo Olson
-Bobby Dykes
-Cyrille Delannoit
-Randy Turpin
-Rocky Graziano
-Gene Fullmer
-Carmen Basilio
-Denny Moyer

Named The Ring Fighter of the Year for 1942 and 1951.......

I have respect for a lot of these fighters...Henry Armstrong is MUCH smaller than SRR so I don't put an emphasis on him. This list to me is a bunch of B- to D fighters. I feel a lot of fighters could go through the same thing undefeated.

Sure SRR's tools were impeccable, but I don't see the level of opposition as high as a SRL, or even Bernard Hopkins. SRR never had to fight Marvin Hagler like Leonard did. And Hagler owuld've been Robinson's best win BY FAR. Robinson lost to fighters lesser than Hagler.

It would be great if some of the history posters in here could help fill in some blanks for me. It's one thing to read about him in Wiki, or other places, but you guys have a lot of the background knowledge that isn't exactly in these common articles. I have basic common knowledge on the man... have read some of his career specifics and seen footage of his fights, but wish to learn more in depth knowledge about him...

I suppose the biggest questions I have:



1. What was his single greatest accomplishment?



2. Who were his BIGGEST wins?

a. How old were they?

b. What wins did THEY have?

c. Were they prime? If so, where were they ranked at the time?



3. What sets SRR aside from the other TOP ATGs?



4. Do you think he will ever be surpassed on the ATG list? And if so, what would that said fighter have to accomplish? (I realize this is a highly opinionated question)



5. Why would you rank SRR OVER Henry Armstrong? (Feel free to list facts about Armstrongs career)



6. Physical: Why is it so hard to beat SRR in mythical matchups? What were his greatest strengths?



Thanks for anyone who can fill in some of these blanks... I just feel as a huge boxing fan I don't know enough about the greatest fighter of all time.

I think most ppl say he's the greatest because of other ppl saying it. It goes well on this forum as well. I personally have to see at least 30 to 50 fights of yours to rank you.

You forgot WBO Super Middleweight. And as much as I love Tommy Hearns (I even rate him higher than Leonard), he's far from the GOAT. If he didn't have a weak chin he'd be in the running for sure tho.

Even with his chin though, his accomplishments is absurd. It's one thing to clear out a division. It's a totally different universe when you go from 147-190 and actually win titles in every division that you moved up from.

The guys of the past are great, they had heart, they had guts. But I don't see anything that can top going from 147 to 190. Approx 50lbs don't seem like much but c'mon, when you look at a WW and then a Cruiserweight, there is an obvious difference. Then you add that you won titles and not just some nabo, ipbf title, I mean the main titles like WBO, WBC, and such. It's just crazy accomplishments.

I'm with Verse(check his last post). Some people have good opinions but for the most part I notice that alot of people simply say [insert 1920-1950 boxer here] is great just because other people say so.

He also didn't duck, dodge, and pick his spots when it came to making fights happen.


That's funny,I could have swore that he never stepped anywhere near the same ring as John Mugabi,Herol Graham and Mike McCallum.......all three of whom were rated contenders at the same weight class so many proclaim Hearns to be the greatest.






Hearns was ahead on my scorecards against Leonard in both fights. In both fights he was drained. This I cannot over look.



I've called you out on this in the past and you ran with your tail between your legs(much like your hero did at the sight of any elite black fighter).You made the accusation that Leonard dragged Hearns down to a catchweight for the first fight despite having absolutely no proof what so ever.







On the other hand, even Leonard's wife didn't think he beat Hagler. This I also can't overlook.


This is the most ridiculous statement that I have ever read in my life.You can't overlook the opinion of Ray Leonard's EX wife and you wonder I call you a dunce?


You're no better that the morons here who believe in half the smut that comes from hbo legendary nights......except your info comes from beyond the glory







Even with his chin though, his accomplishments is absurd. It's one thing to clear out a division. It's a totally different universe when you go from 147-190 and actually win titles in every division that you moved up from.




When did Hearns ever clear out a division?

Robinson's Unquantified-but-Detailed Complete Career Resume:

*Info below uses Ring Annual Ratings
*Hall of Famers in bold

Pete Lello (#3 LW – 1940)
Sammy Angott (#1 LW – 1940, LW Champ – 1941, #2 LW – 1943, #8 WW – 1945)
Maxie Shapiro (#8 LW – 1942)
Marty Servo [Undefeated] (WW Champ – 1946)
Fritzie Zivic (WW Champ – 1940, #3 WW – 1941, #8 WW 1942)
Maxie Berger (JWW Champ – 1939, #6 WW – 1940)
Norman Rubio (#10 WW – 1941)
Reuben Shank (#8 MW – 1943)
Tony Motisi (#9 WW – 1942)
Jake LaMotta (#6 MW – 1942, #1 MW – 1943, #2 MW – 1944, #3 MW – 1945, #1 MW – 1946)
(#5 MW – 1947, #3 MW – 1948, MW Champ – 1949 & 1950)
Izzy Janazzo (#2 WW – 1940, #8 WW – 1941 & 1943)
Vic Dellicurti (#10 MW – 1944)
Al Nettlow (couple close fights with Bob Montgomery, beat Maxie Berger)
California Jackie Wilson (#2 WW – 1941, #3 WW – 1942)
Ralph Zannelli (#5 WW – 1943, #4 WW – 1947)
Henry Armstrong (WW Champ – 1938 & 1939, #1 WW – 1940, #2 WW – 1942, #1 WW – 1944)
Sheik Rangel (#10 WW – 1942)
George Martin (beat Ralph Zannelli, Garvey Young, V. Vines, Pedro Montanez, Battling Battalino, Andy Callahan)
Tommy Bell (#1 WW – 1946, #2 WW – 1947)
George Costner (#5 WW – 1947, #2 WW – 1949)
Jimmy McDaniels (#4 WW – 1944)
O'Neill Bell (just beat George Costner, Jackie Wilson, and Fritzie Zivic back to back to back)
Joe Curcio (beat Fritzie Zivic, Cecil Hudson, and Johnny Green)
Vinnie Vines (beat Sam Baroudi and Jackie Alzek)
Ossie Harris (beat Tommy Bell, Reuben Shank, and Fritzie Zivic)
Cecil Hudson (beat Tommy Bell, Fritzie Zivic, Freddie Dixon, Ossie Harris, & Sheik Rangel)
Artie Levine (beat Jimmy Doyle, Marvin Bryant, Vic Dellicurti, Herbie Kronowitz, & Joe Agosta)
Georgie Abrams (#5 MW – 1946)
Jimmy Doyle (#2 WW – 1945, #7 WW – 1946)
Billy Nixon (beat Johnny Green, Buster Tyler, & Johnny Hutchinson)
Chuck Taylor (beat Frankie Abrams, Tony Pellone, and Honeychile Johnson)
Henry Brimm (beat Vic Dellicurti, Holman Williams, Joey DeJohn, Arte Towne, & Tony Elizondo)
Bernard Docusen (#3 WW – 1948 & 1949)
Kid Gavilan (#1 WW – 1948, 1949, 1950, & 1951, WW Champ – 1952 & 1953)
Bobby Lee (beat Livio Minelli, Billy Nixon, Nava Esparza, Dorsey Lay, Honeychile Johnson, Chico Varona, & Gene Burton)
Don Lee (beat Jimmy McDaniels, Vince Foster, Sheik Rangel, Joe Danos, Howard Bleyhl, Billy Tierney)
Earl Turner (beat Sheik Rangel, Fred Apostoli, Cecil Hudson, Cocoa Kid, Don Lee, Jackie Wilson, George Costner, George Duke, etc)
Steve Belloise (#2 MW – 1948, #5 MW – 1949)
Al Mobley (beat Fritzie Zivic, Georgie Benton, Honeychile Johnson, George Martin, Sylvester Perkins, Otis Graham, & Bert Linam)
Aaron Wade (#7 MW – 1945)
Ray Barnes (#7 MW – 1950)
Robert Villemain (#3 MW – 1949, #8 MW – 1950, #9 MW – 1951)
Charley Fusari (#3 WW – 1950, #8 WW – 1951)
Jose Basora (#4 MW – 1943 & 1944)
Joe Rindone (beat Ralph Zannelli, Paul Pender, Bob Murphy, Pierre Langlois, Joe Blackwood, Charley Zivic, & Henry Lee)
Bobo Olson (#3 MW – 1952, MW Champ – 1953 & 1954, #1 MW – 1955)
Bobby Dykes (#2 WW – 1952, #5 MW – 1953)
Jean Stock (beat Randy Turpin, Bobby Dawson, Omar Kouidri, Cyrille Delannoit, Robert Charron, Edouard Tenet)
Luc van Dam (beat Jean Stock, Cyrille Delannoit, Jacques Royer Crecy, Albert Finch, Bep van Klaveren, & Felix Wouters)
Hans Stretz (beat Randy Turpin, Jacques Royer Crecy, Al Mobley, Peter Mueller, Rudi Pepper)
(Carl Schmidt, Heinz Sanger, Alex Buxton, Johnny Sullivan, Franco Festucci)
Holley Mims (#8 MW – 1953, #3 MW – 1954, #6 MW – 1955)
Cyrille Delannoit (#5 MW – 1948)
Randy Turpin (#1 MW – 1951 & 1952, MW Champ – 1951)
Rocky Graziano (#3 MW – 1946, MW Champ – 1947, #10 MW – 1948 & 1951)
Garth Panter (beat Pierre Langlois, Walter Cartier, and Earl Turner)
Rocky Castellani (#1 MW – 1953, #2 MW – 1954, #5 MW – 1955)
Gene Fullmer (#1 MW – 1956, MW Champ – 1957, #2 MW – 1957 & 1958, #1 MW – 1959, 1960, 1961, & 1962)
Carmen Basilio (WW Champ – 1955 & 1956, MW Champ – 1957, #1 MW – 1958)
Denny Moyer (#9 MW – 1961, #6 MW – 1962, JMW Champ – 1963, #9 MW – 1968, #2 MW – 1969)
Ralph Dupas (#2 WW – 1961, #3 WW – 1962, #4 WW – 1963, JMW Champ – 1963)
Yoland Leveque (beat Bennie Briscoe, Jacques Marty, Art Hernandez, & Bo Hogberg)


angott was pretty good from what i seen, but how do you know if zivic is any good? all i know was he was incredibly dirty, which back then you could get away with pretty easily, low blowing, headbutting and poking people in the eye? not really boxing skills is it? glad robinson beat the crap outta him, would like to have some footage of these fights tho
also why are you mentioning peeps that have been champion? which got about 20 losses? if we mentioned every other fighters resume with former/future champions they'd have more names too

the opponents, his speed and power, the longevity the amount of fights and if we talking about longevity you can ask your mother about him :joke:

It'll be hard for any fighter to surpass him.

Not just in terms of ability, it probably will happen but it'll be hard for anyone to actually consider a boxer to be better than SRR, like I said not just for ability alone, but in terms resume. SRR fought everyone, he went 85-0 and 128-1. By the end of his career he had won 173 out of 200 fights. These days fighters are considered to have had a long career if they span 40+ fights. With all the promotion/money involved these days no fighter can just fight on a fortnightly basis like old school fighters use to, you'd never see Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather having a rematch on the 22nd May . There's also the fact SRR fought in a era of 15 round fights and in a much tougher era in boxing.

It's nearly impossible to measure anyone from the modern era with him, and it will be same in the future because the sport has changed drastically.