View Full Version : Duran-Whitaker


JAB5239
01-27-2010, 07:36 AM
Most on here realize Duran was not in proper shape for the second Leonard fight and was frustrated by Rays showboating and unwillingness to fight Durans fight. We already know how an in shape Duran fought Leonard the first time, but how would a prime Duran at 135 do against a prime Whitaker at 135, who could be even more ****y than Leonard and was better defensively? Could Pea frustrate Duran into another "No Mas" or would Duran keep applying the pressure and break down the slickster from Norfolk, Virginia? 15 rounds. who wins and how would it play out?

Silencers
01-27-2010, 07:56 AM
I have a feeling that Whitaker would've been able to pull this one off, I think Duran would have trouble with Whitaker's slickness and even though Duran is the superior inside fighter I think Whitaker would've been able to hold his own in there when he really needs to and I don't recall Whitaker ever really being worn down by pressure, in fact he looked even better against pressure fighters who came at him leaving openings for his counters. Duran would definitely have his moments, especially when the fight wears on when he warms up and he is a better pressure fighter than any Whitaker has fought.

Whitaker hasn't been 15 rounds even though he never seemed to have any stamina problems going 12.

Whitaker by close-ish decision, 8-7 or 9-6, something like that.

Dynamite Kid
01-27-2010, 10:07 AM
I have a feeling that Whitaker would've been able to pull this one off, I think Duran would have trouble with Whitaker's slickness and even though Duran is the superior inside fighter I think Whitaker would've been able to hold his own in there when he really needs to and I don't recall Whitaker ever really being worn down by pressure, in fact he looked even better against pressure fighters who came at him leaving openings for his counters. Duran would definitely have his moments, especially when the fight wears on when he warms up and he is a better pressure fighter than any Whitaker has fought.

Whitaker hasn't been 15 rounds even though he never seemed to have any stamina problems going 12.

Whitaker by close-ish decision, 8-7 or 9-6, something like that.



Agree with this, Duran would come on strong down the stretch when tiredness starts to set in and Whitaker holds his feet a bit more but he would of landed the cleaner effective punches over the coarse of the fight to accumulate more rounds and therefore win the fight.


Whitaker was World Class at frustrating the opponent and making them fight his fight, plus he was also an excellent counter puncher who could fight inside or outside.

Duran does not enough wrinkles to his game to beat Whitaker imo, Duran would have to think his way in against Whitaker otherwise he would never pin Whitaker down, that all out aggression would not work against Whitaker because he would have to pin Whitaker down first before he could get off, meanwhile Whitaker would just break his rhythm up with his jab and movement & frustrate him.

Duran looks good against dumber fighters like Moore,Barkley but he could not cope with guys that gave him movement and asked him to close the distance, Leonard, Laing, Benitez all outfoxed him.

Method Checker
01-27-2010, 03:33 PM
Whitaker wins by either a close decision or making during repeat "No Mas".

Obama
01-27-2010, 03:48 PM
Whitaker gets robbed. If there ever was a robbery to predict, this is one of them. Judges simply won't appreciate what Whitaker does in the fight...which will be clearly out pointing his more aggressive opponent.

CCobra
01-27-2010, 04:29 PM
I'm with Obama on this one. Whitaker does more than enough to win but gets robbed Julio Cesar Chavez style.

JAB5239
01-27-2010, 05:30 PM
All good answers so far. But I was wondering more about Pea's ability to frustrate Duran and the way he would mock his opponents. Would an in shape Duran boil over with aggravation and frustration the way the out of shape Duran did against Leonard?

American Dream
01-27-2010, 05:45 PM
Whitaker gets robbed. If there ever was a robbery to predict, this is one of them. Judges simply won't appreciate what Whitaker does in the fight...which will be clearly out pointing his more aggressive opponent.
truer words were never spoken..

All good answers so far. But I was wondering more about Pea's ability to frustrate Duran and the way he would mock his opponents. Would an in shape Duran boil over with aggravation and frustration the way the out of shape Duran did against Leonard?

I think Duran gets frustrated..Pea imo was alot slicker than SRL..
it was hell to hit him..he not only made his opponents miss..he humilated them for 12 rounds doing so..

GJC
01-27-2010, 08:29 PM
People seem to forget about old Ken Buchanan he was a pretty slick fighter IMO and Duran just wore him down through his relentlessness.
Tricky one to call, be some fight though.

HaglerSteelChin
01-27-2010, 11:36 PM
I think at 135 it will be one hell of a fight. But i think it will be one of those fights judges will decide on style preference. I can see Sweetpea out jabbing Duran and making him miss but i also can see Duran hitting with the harder shots and doing good body work. Also at 135 Duran had clearly his greatest power and in an old school 15 RD fight i can see Duran outworking sweetpea and winning by either MD or SD simply by pressure. But this is just speculation.

donkim
01-28-2010, 04:09 AM
Most on here realize Duran was not in proper shape for the second Leonard fight



Most on here know you to be an apologist.This post proves it.Most here are perhaps not aware what a coward you are however,or perhaps they do know,but don't wish to tell you as they enjoy having you kiss their arse all the time.


I bet Duran was in "proper shape" to poke a green Davey Moore in the eye though,wasn't he?

Whitaker's defense was overrated and very rarely did he ever look untouchable.Pernell Whitaker is the greatest example of why it's best to watch a fight in it's entirety rather than a simple highlight.

tyger
01-28-2010, 04:20 AM
Duran would find a way to win, not just because he fought a much higher level of competetion but it is what he did as a lightweight. Whitaker would be hard to it and it wouldn't be easy but when the decision is announced his hand is raised. And it is not one of those Ramirez/Chavez type decisions.

mickey malone
01-28-2010, 05:19 AM
All good answers so far. But I was wondering more about Pea's ability to frustrate Duran and the way he would mock his opponents. Would an in shape Duran boil over with aggravation and frustration the way the out of shape Duran did against Leonard?
Yes, they are all good answers, to a difficult question at that..
I think most of you have it spot on.. Particlarly liked Obama's take on it..

I think the key point here, is that as a lightweight, Duran was totally untested against anyone of Whitaker's skill levels, and dare i say it? But this would also have to include DeJesus and Buchannon respectively..
Fundumentally, he'd never even met a good southpaw, let alone one of the craftiest whoever lived.. In fact, can anyone help?, as i'm at a loss to name even one southpaw that he did engage as a lightweight..

On statistics, Duran takes it, but i'm not so sure about lightweight resume..
Both were undisputed, with championship records of 15-1-0 to 14-1-0 (Whitaker), and both had lost 1 DC a piece to quality fighters.. Both also avenged these defeats, DeJesus twice by Duran & Ramirez once by Whitaker..
Duran dominated for 5 years, and also won 16 non-title bouts during his reign.. Most of them were by way of impressive KO, but to be fair, quite a few of them were against journeyman pro's, with one noted exception, being the classy Saoul Mamby who dropped a narrow points decision over 10..
Whitaker, on the other hand, had 3 years of domination with no non-title fights, but in my opinion, faced a better quality of opposition.. Duran's greatest lightweight performances were against DeJesus and Buchannon.. Other victories included, an old Jimmy Robinson, Guts Ishimatsu, Masataka Tayayama, Ray Lampkin, Leoncio Ortiz, Lou Bizzarro, Hector Thompson and Vilomar Fernandez..
Whitaker beat, Jose Luis Ramirez, Greg Haugen, Freddie Pendleton, Anthony Jones, Policarpo Diaz, Miguel Santana, Jorge Paez, and an old Azumah Nelson..
It could also be argued that Nelson's style had many similar characteristics to Duran's.

After studying the logic that surrounds this intriguing match-up, i'd be inclined to suggest that Sweet Pea would have been Duran's stylistic boogieman, and with compitent judges, would have taken a closely fought majority decision..
As for, 'would he frustrate him?',, 'To damn right, he would!'

JAB5239
01-28-2010, 06:24 AM
Yes, they are all good answers, to a difficult question at that..
I think most of you have it spot on.. Particlarly liked Obama's take on it..

I think the key point here, is that as a lightweight, Duran was totally untested against anyone of Whitaker's skill levels, and dare i say it? But this would also have to include DeJesus and Buchannon respectively..
Fundumentally, he'd never even met a good southpaw, let alone one of the craftiest whoever lived.. In fact, can anyone help?, as i'm at a loss to name even one southpaw that he did engage as a lightweight..

On statistics, Duran takes it, but i'm not so sure about lightweight resume..
Both were undisputed, with championship records of 15-1-0 to 14-1-0 (Whitaker), and both had lost 1 DC a piece to quality fighters.. Both also avenged these defeats, DeJesus twice by Duran & Ramirez once by Whitaker..
Duran dominated for 5 years, and also won 16 non-title bouts during his reign.. Most of them were by way of impressive KO, but to be fair, quite a few of them were against journeyman pro's, with one noted exception, being the classy Saoul Mamby who dropped a narrow points decision over 10..
Whitaker, on the other hand, had 3 years of domination with no non-title fights, but in my opinion, faced a better quality of opposition.. Duran's greatest lightweight performances were against DeJesus and Buchannon.. Other victories included, an old Jimmy Robinson, Guts Ishimatsu, Masataka Tayayama, Ray Lampkin, Leoncio Ortiz, Lou Bizzarro, Hector Thompson and Vilomar Fernandez..
Whitaker beat, Jose Luis Ramirez, Greg Haugen, Freddie Pendleton, Anthony Jones, Policarpo Diaz, Miguel Santana, Jorge Paez, and an old Azumah Nelson..
It could also be argued that Nelson's style had many similar characteristics to Duran's.

I haven't seen this fight in years, but didn't Nelson make it competitive? And if he did what would a prime Duran do?

After studying the logic that surrounds this intriguing match-up, i'd be inclined to suggest that Sweet Pea would have been Duran's stylistic boogieman, and with compitent judges, would have taken a closely fought majority decision..
As for, 'would he frustrate him?',, 'To damn right, he would!'

This is a tough fight any way you look at it but I think Duran would earn a decision based on effective aggression. No doubt Pea would make him look silly at times but I don't think he ever fought anybody as strong, fast or defensively gifted as prime Duran. Based on the thing you outlined
I wouldn't argue to much with anyone who chose Whitaker.

Good post as usual Mic.

bojangles1987
01-28-2010, 06:44 AM
This is really a pick em fight, I would go with Whitaker by very, very close decision. It would probably be a decision that half the people who watch agree with, and half call a robbery.

mickey malone
01-28-2010, 06:55 AM
haven't seen this fight in years, but didn't Nelson make it competitive? And if he did what would a prime Duran do?

TBH, neither have i, so i won't comment to much until i've done a bit more research.. I do recall Nelson screaming for a rematch more or less up until he retired though, so you may well have a valid point.. But, i also have some recollection of Whitaker clowning him, so i'll get back to you on it shortly..
Oh,and likewise, I wouldn't argue to much with anyone who picks Duran either..

mickey malone
01-29-2010, 06:12 AM
haven't seen this fight in years, but didn't Nelson make it competitive? And if he did what would a prime Duran do?

TBH, neither have i, so i won't comment to much until i've done a bit more research.. I do recall Nelson screaming for a rematch more or less up until he retired though, so you may well have a valid point.. But, i also have some recollection of Whitaker clowning him, so i'll get back to you on it shortly..
Oh,and likewise, I wouldn't argue to much with anyone who picks Duran either..
Just took a look at rounds 6-8.. That's about all i could manage as for some reason, my machine is taking an age to play and download vids.. Although, from what i remember, and what i did see - Whitaker was definitely having the best of it with punch and move tactics, and tbh that's how i'd see it vs a past-prime Duran too.

I do know that Whitaker had a point deducted in that fight.. I can't remember why, or what round it was in, but the end result was a UD and lets face it, most judges were never particularly overawed with his style, so i think it's fair to say Nelson was beaten convincingly in this one..

Obama
01-29-2010, 07:50 AM
People seem to forget about old Ken Buchanan he was a pretty slick fighter IMO and Duran just wore him down through his relentlessness.
Tricky one to call, be some fight though.

I'd call Ken Buchanan a lot of things. But slick damn sure ain't one of them. He's not even as slick as Evander Holyfield, who isn't slick himself.

One more round
01-29-2010, 07:52 AM
Most on here know you to be an apologist.This post proves it.Most here are perhaps not aware what a coward you are however,or perhaps they do know,but don't wish to tell you as they enjoy having you kiss their arse all the time.


I bet Duran was in "proper shape" to poke a green Davey Moore in the eye though,wasn't he?

Whitaker's defense was overrated and very rarely did he ever look untouchable.Pernell Whitaker is the greatest example of why it's best to watch a fight in it's entirety rather than a simple highlight.

People have got to stop responding to this guy, it's like feeding a seagull at the beach and then they keep coming back for more. The guy enjoys spouting his drivel and does it more and more everytime he is rebuked.

Ziggy Stardust
01-29-2010, 12:40 PM
People have got to stop responding to this guy, it's like feeding a seagull at the beach and then they keep coming back for more. The guy enjoys spouting his drivel and does it more and more everytime he is rebuked.

Let's feed him some dry Alke-Seltzer and see what happens :D

Poet

sonnyboyx2
01-29-2010, 12:50 PM
Let's feed him some dry Alke-Seltzer and see what happens :D

Poet

once again ridicule and put-down of a fellow member by "The Village Idiot" of the forum.. why dont you just for once try talking boxing on this site or is that beyond comprehension bird brain.

Ziggy Stardust
01-29-2010, 12:55 PM
once again ridicule and put-down of a fellow member by "The Village Idiot" of the forum.. why dont you just for once try talking boxing on this site or is that beyond comprehension bird brain.

Go molest another sheep half-wit :loser:

Poet

GJC
01-29-2010, 04:33 PM
I bet Duran was in "proper shape" to poke a green Davey Moore in the eye though,wasn't he?



Poop you keep saying Moore was green but the guys world champion and at the time was rated as one of the best p4p fighters around.
1st rule of boxing is defend yourself at all times.

them_apples
01-29-2010, 04:46 PM
Most on here realize Duran was not in proper shape for the second Leonard fight and was frustrated by Rays showboating and unwillingness to fight Durans fight. We already know how an in shape Duran fought Leonard the first time, but how would a prime Duran at 135 do against a prime Whitaker at 135, who could be even more ****y than Leonard and was better defensively? Could Pea frustrate Duran into another "No Mas" or would Duran keep applying the pressure and break down the slickster from Norfolk, Virginia? 15 rounds. who wins and how would it play out?

I'd personally give it to Duran. He was damn near invulnerable at 135 and Pea wasn't a big puncher. Duran would be on him for all 12 like a wild dog. Duran wasn't a head hunter either, so I think he might have some success landing on pea as well.

them_apples
01-29-2010, 04:51 PM
This is a tough fight any way you look at it but I think Duran would earn a decision based on effective aggression. No doubt Pea would make him look silly at times but I don't think he ever fought anybody as strong, fast or defensively gifted as prime Duran. Based on the thing you outlined
I wouldn't argue to much with anyone who chose Whitaker.

Good post as usual Mic.

Duran would get bonus points for effective agression but I think he'd land some mean blows as well. Duran was a very tricky fighter and could throw Pea's game off as well.