View Full Version : The K bros against the old timers


UKRAINIANGIANTS
01-26-2010, 09:05 PM
How do the K bros do against the smaller Ali, Holmes, Louis and Frazier.

UKRAINIANGIANTS
01-26-2010, 10:24 PM
bump bump bump

JAB5239
01-26-2010, 10:59 PM
How do the K bros do against the smaller Ali, Holmes, Louis and Frazier.

They lose against all of them.

UKRAINIANGIANTS
01-26-2010, 11:41 PM
They lose against all of them.

LMAO!!!!!!! So the 6''6+ K Bros lose to the tiny ass HW's of the past? Undersized and underskilled, K bros kTFO all of them

DeepSleep
01-27-2010, 12:10 AM
LMAO!!!!!!! So the 6''6+ K Bros lose to the tiny ass HW's of the past? Undersized and underskilled, K bros kTFO all of them

Against Ali and Holmes they would be fighting fighters with the exact same reach as them with better jabs and footwork, they would be given a boxing lesson. A wide UD would be the result I would expect although I think Wladís chin could fold on him somewhere along the way.

Against Frazier, they could try to keep him at bay with jabs and straights but I don't think they can move effectively enough to relieve the pressure Joe would put on them. Vitali has the power to put Joe out cold but I donít think Joe will give him the space needed for him to use it and he gets swarmed and beat. Wlad would get chopped down once the slow starting Joe started to begin smoking. I just haven't seen them display the kind of footwork needed to keep Joe away from them.

Vitali or Wlad could land a home run shot on Joe Louis and knock him down, but the odds of either of them putting Louis away would be very small. Louis would initially struggle with the reach disparity but after a few rounds would be working his way in and tattooing them with combinations. Wlad would get KO'd shortly after Louis solves him and Vitali would either get UD'd or stopped on cuts.

ny123
01-27-2010, 12:15 AM
vitaly could hold his own with the best with his chin size and power but wlad most likely gets kod by the better hws of all time

UKRAINIANGIANTS
01-27-2010, 12:56 AM
Against Ali and Holmes they would be fighting fighters with the exact same reach as them with better jabs and footwork, they would be given a boxing lesson. A wide UD would be the result I would expect although I think Wladís chin could fold on him somewhere along the way.

Against Frazier, they could try to keep him at bay with jabs and straights but I don't think they can move effectively enough to relieve the pressure Joe would put on them. Vitali has the power to put Joe out cold but I donít think Joe will give him the space needed for him to use it and he gets swarmed and beat. Wlad would get chopped down once the slow starting Joe started to begin smoking. I just haven't seen them display the kind of footwork needed to keep Joe away from them.

Vitali or Wlad could land a home run shot on Joe Louis and knock him down, but the odds of either of them putting Louis away would be very small. Louis would initially struggle with the reach disparity but after a few rounds would be working his way in and tattooing them with combinations. Wlad would get KO'd shortly after Louis solves him and Vitali would either get UD'd or stopped on cuts.

STFU moron Keep defending your precious inferior american heroes :lol1:

Ziggy Stardust
01-27-2010, 01:18 AM
stfu moron keep defending your precious inferior american heroes :lol1:

Attention!!!!!! Remove the Klitschko nutsacks from your mouth and slowly back away with your hands over your head!!!!!

UKRAINIANGIANTS
01-27-2010, 01:21 AM
attention!!!!!! Remove the klitschko nutsacks from your mouth and slowly back away with your hands over your head!!!!!

Remove the decayed, smaller nutsack of Joe Louis and the smaller, less potent ones of your other American heroes from yours first!!!

Spartacus Sully
01-27-2010, 01:31 AM
well just about any famous American heavy weight would destroy both klischko's hell id even put my money on jess willard to destroy either one of them.

Fighting Marine
01-27-2010, 01:37 AM
Joe Frazier would kill both of them.....Ali couldn't even keep Frazier off him with his jab and you're expecting the slow ass K Bros to do it??? Frazier would annihilate both of them......Vitali couldn't even beat a past prime Lennox Lewis

JAB5239
01-27-2010, 02:27 AM
well just about any famous American heavy weight would destroy both klischko's hell id even put my money on jess willard to destroy either one of them.

What about Primo Carnera? If you've watchd him fight you have to admit he fights very similar to both the K Bros.

Spartacus Sully
01-27-2010, 02:57 AM
What about Primo Carnera? If you've watchd him fight you have to admit he fights very similar to both the K Bros.

well then Max bear wouldn't have a problem them eh? primo though, i dont think so he seems to be more of an off balance mass of muscle then either of the klitscho's itd be a good fight but i think if it went to decision it would be for the klischkos.

JAB5239
01-27-2010, 03:17 AM
well then Max bear wouldn't have a problem them eh? primo though, i dont think so he seems to be more of an off balance mass of muscle then either of the klitscho's itd be a good fight but i think if it went to decision it would be for the klischkos.

I would pick both the K's over Carnera as I think they're a bit faster and more athletic. But I can honestly see every fighter on that list beating both of them. While I think they're both better than Primo, I don't think they're way better. Louis, Ali, Frazier, Holmes.....all way better than Primo. On top of that we can get into the stamina factor. The old timers had plenty, both K's stamina can be questioned. Jmo.

donkim
01-28-2010, 04:18 AM
Frazier doesn't have the heart or the chin to withstand the Klitschko's power.Wladimir would knock him out within the first two rounds and Vitali would either bludgeon him or force him to quit on his stool.



Come to think of it,Frazier would duck both Klitschko's as Frazier always ducked punchers.

Fighting Marine
01-28-2010, 04:32 AM
Frazier doesn't have the heart or the chin to withstand the Klitschko's power.Wladimir would knock him out within the first two rounds and Vitali would either bludgeon him or force him to quit on his stool.



Come to think of it,Frazier would duck both Klitschko's as Frazier always ducked punchers.
WOW.....that is the most absurd thing i've read all month....that doesn't even warrant a sane and logical response so **** YOU!!!!

One more round
01-28-2010, 04:41 AM
Frazier doesn't have the heart or the chin to withstand the Klitschko's power.Wladimir would knock him out within the first two rounds and Vitali would either bludgeon him or force him to quit on his stool.



Come to think of it,Frazier would duck both Klitschko's as Frazier always ducked punchers.

It really is beyond absurd you trying to say Joe had no heart. And his chin was solid. Why do you have this agenda against Frazier? It really is bizzare.

JAB5239
01-28-2010, 05:27 AM
WOW.....that is the most absurd thing i've read all month....that doesn't even warrant a sane and logical response so **** YOU!!!!

And PissPooper wins another admirer!!!

The_Demon
01-28-2010, 06:51 AM
ATG heavyweights would beat the klits,because they are better fighters

they are good,they just arent that good

the reason they have been so dominant is due to how weak the division is right now

donkim
01-28-2010, 10:51 PM
the reason they have been so dominant is due to how weak the division is right now


The division is no weaker than when Louis was avoiding every elite black fighter with a pulse to fight his "bum of the month".


Neither Klitschko cherry picks and avoids fighters the way Joe frazier did either.




And his chin was solid.



http://plainview.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/art_of_laughter2.jpg

Obama
01-28-2010, 11:13 PM
The division is no weaker than when Louis was avoiding every elite black fighter with a pulse to fight his "bum of the month".


10 Best Heavyweights from the 1930s (On their best day)


Joe Louis
Jack Sharkey
Max Schmeling
Max Baer
Primo Carnera
Jim Braddock
Tommy Farr
Tommy Loughran (#2 LHW in the 20s)
Ernie Schaaf
Young Stribling


Honorable Mention
Steve Hamas (2-2 with Loughran, 1-1 with Schmeling, 35-4-2 record...)
Johnny Risko (Who didn't he beat?)
Paulino Uzcudun (only Jim Braddock and Joe Louis beat a better version of Max Baer)
George Godfrey (most his best wins are in the 20s)
Lou Nova (beat Tommy Farr and Max Baer...but not at their best)
Stanley Poreda (excellent 1932)
Jim Maloney (1930 last good year)
Larry Gains (beat Primo Carnera)


10 Best Heavyweights from the 1940s (On their best day)


Joe Louis
Jersey Joe Walcott
Ezzard Charles
Jimmy Bivins
Billy Conn
Elmer Ray
Tami Mauriello
Max Baer (1940 was his last good year, but he was far from great at this point)
Bob Pastor
Gus Lesnevich (LHW Champ who had a pretty damn good 1947 @ HW)


Honorable Mention
Melio Bettina
Lem Franklin
Lee Oma
Abe Simon (KOed Jersey Joe Walcott)
Arturo Godoy (Took Joe Louis to a SD)
Turkey Thompson (KOed Elmer Ray)
Lee Savold (Top 10 rated for half of the 40s, oddly enough at the beginning and the end)

Note: Elite/Semi-Elite Heavyweights end after the first 7 for the '40s list

----------

OK, count all the Black dudes up, then count which ones Louis never fought, then divide the ones he didn't fight by the total number. Then keep in mind George Godfrey was retired by 1937, and Louis KOed Elmer Ray in an exhibition (or something like that).

After you do all that, if you still feel the same way, well, quite frankly I don't know what to tell you. It's a matter of intrinsic prejudice on your end.

JAB5239
01-29-2010, 03:12 AM
10 Best Heavyweights from the 1930s (On their best day)


Joe Louis
Jack Sharkey
Max Schmeling
Max Baer
Primo Carnera
Jim Braddock
Tommy Farr
Tommy Loughran (#2 LHW in the 20s)
Ernie Schaaf
Young Stribling


Honorable Mention
Steve Hamas (2-2 with Loughran, 1-1 with Schmeling, 35-4-2 record...)
Johnny Risko (Who didn't he beat?)
Paulino Uzcudun (only Jim Braddock and Joe Louis beat a better version of Max Baer)
George Godfrey (most his best wins are in the 20s)
Lou Nova (beat Tommy Farr and Max Baer...but not at their best)
Stanley Poreda (excellent 1932)
Jim Maloney (1930 last good year)


10 Best Heavyweights from the 1940s (On their best day)


Joe Louis
Jersey Joe Walcott
Ezzard Charles
Jimmy Bivins
Billy Conn
Elmer Ray
Tami Mauriello
Max Baer (1940 was his last good year, but he was far from great at this point)
Bob Pastor
Gus Lesnevich (LHW Champ who had a pretty damn good 1947 @ HW)


Honorable Mention
Melio Bettina
Lem Franklin
Lee Oma
Abe Simon (KOed Jersey Joe Walcott)
Arturo Godoy (Took Joe Louis to a SD)
Turkey Thompson (KOed Elmer Ray)
Lee Savold (Top 10 rated for half of the 40s, oddly enough at the beginning and the end)

Note: Elite/Semi-Elite Heavyweights end after the first 7 for the '40s list

----------

OK, count all the Black dudes up, then count which ones Louis never fought, then divide the ones he didn't fight by the total number. Then keep in mind George Godfrey was retired by 1937, and Louis KOed Elmer Ray in an exhibition (or something like that).

After you do all that, if you still feel the same way, well, quite frankly I don't know what to tell you. It's a matter of intrinsic prejudice on your end.

Supreme ownage!!! Somebody help me get Obama back in the green. You don't always have to agree with him, but he makes a damn good case more times than not..

One more round
01-29-2010, 04:09 AM
The division is no weaker than when Louis was avoiding every elite black fighter with a pulse to fight his "bum of the month".


Neither Klitschko cherry picks and avoids fighters the way Joe frazier did either.








http://plainview.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/art_of_laughter2.jpg

Anyone who can keep getting up from Foreman's shots and take a battering from Ali without going down has a decent chin in my book. I can't believe you say Joe cherry picked and avoided fighters, I'm no expert on the rankings at that time but I'm sure you have been shown on here countless times that Joe fought whoever he needed to fight.

And the most ludicrous claim you put forth is that Joe had no heart, he would have kept getting up from George's shots until he was dead if you had let him, and he wanted to go into the 15th in Manila with barely any eyesight and a face looking like a slab of meat. It just confounds me as to why you harbour this agenda, it's just pointless.

JAB5239
01-29-2010, 05:18 AM
Anyone who can keep getting up from Foreman's shots and take a battering from Ali without going down has a decent chin in my book. I can't believe you say Joe cherry picked and avoided fighters, I'm no expert on the rankings at that time but I'm sure you have been shown on here countless times that Joe fought whoever he needed to fight.

And the most ludicrous claim you put forth is that Joe had no heart, he would have kept getting up from George's shots until he was dead if you had let him, and he wanted to go into the 15th in Manila with barely any eyesight and a face looking like a slab of meat. It just confounds me as to why you harbour this agenda, it's just pointless.

Be careful, she'll try and convince you that Frazier ducked Mac Foster and Ron Lyle even though the timing was not only wrong, but Jerry Quarry beat both of them when they got themselves into contention. Sad excuses indeed.

theghost#1
01-29-2010, 05:38 AM
The KO Bros are too big and strong for the past great HW's. Thats like saying Erik Morales could beat Pavlik. Size matters in boxing. Louis, Ali, Frazier, ar simply to small. They might be greater, But they couldn't beat either Klit,

Spartacus Sully
01-29-2010, 05:41 AM
Thats like saying Erik Morales could beat Pavlik. Size matters in boxing. Louis, Ali, Frazier, ar simply to small.

or like saying haye could beat valuve or baer could beat carnera or dempsey could beat willard.....oh wait.

JAB5239
01-29-2010, 05:45 AM
The KO Bros are too big and strong for the past great HW's. Thats like saying Erik Morales could beat Pavlik. Size matters in boxing. Louis, Ali, Frazier, ar simply to small. They might be greater, But they couldn't beat either Klit,

This is just ignorant. Louis and Ali decimated guys the size of the Klits. Skills, stamina, workrate and toughness trump size all day any day.

One more round
01-29-2010, 06:40 AM
The KO Bros are too big and strong for the past great HW's. Thats like saying Erik Morales could beat Pavlik. Size matters in boxing. Louis, Ali, Frazier, ar simply to small. They might be greater, But they couldn't beat either Klit,

That's an incorrect analogy. When you are 126 pounds, fighting a man in the 160's of a similar calibre is a huge, ridiculous disadvantage, it's a huge proportion of your own bodyweight.

But when you are above 200lbs, giving away 40lbs isn't as big a deal, it's a smaller percentage of your weight and doesn't matter as much.

That's why it can be a pretty big deal for a bantamweight or flyweight to give away even 8 or 10lbs to a similar calibre fighter, but no sweat for a 200lber.

theghost#1
01-29-2010, 06:54 AM
or like saying haye could beat valuve or baer could beat carnera or dempsey could beat willard.....oh wait.

All bums, except for willard who came out of retirenment to fight Dempsey.

theghost#1
01-29-2010, 06:56 AM
This is just ignorant. Louis and Ali decimated guys the size of the Klits. Skills, stamina, workrate and toughness trump size all day any day.


Who ?????????????? Also The klits have skill, workrate, toughness too.

One more round
01-29-2010, 07:12 AM
Who ?????????????? Also The klits have skill, workrate, toughness too.

the Klits are skillful fighters, workrate...Wlad not so much, Vitali's is okay.

As for toughness, Vitali quit on his stool in a fight he had in the bag man, in the bag, no way could he have lost that on the cards if he just kept going for 2 more rounds....

Wlad has always gotten up when floored but x3 KO losses to relatively average opponents count against him.

I think a guy like Ali would be way too fast for the Klitschko's, he's just as long as them, not much smaller, and his speed and movement would win him decisions vs both, he could have bits of trouble with Vitali's awkwardness, but overall he wins.

Against Louis they have a better chance, but with Wlad I can't see Louis not landing on Wlad and busting him up, Louis was a sharp puncher and I think he would knock Wlad out.

I think Louis would chop Vitali down and stop him on cuts too. Just a sharp puncher who can take the space off them and capitalise.

Vs Frazier, I think Frazier gives Wlad all sorts of problems, just on him non stop, hitting him big lefts and bobbing under his jab, I think he would stop him

Vitali-Frazier would be a good fight, they would stand in and mix it and both land some great shots, but Vitali has opted out before due to an injury and there's no way his stamina matches Frazier's. I think it's a tough fight early with some exchanges and maybe even a trip to the canvas for Joe, but he takes over as the fight goes on to win a decision.

Spartacus Sully
01-29-2010, 07:42 AM
All bums, except for willard who came out of retirenment to fight Dempsey.

well they all held a heavy weight belt and few of them held the heavy weight belt. if that makes them bums sounds good to me.

Ziggy Stardust
01-29-2010, 09:54 AM
The KO Bros are too big and strong for the past great HW's. Thats like saying Erik Morales could beat Pavlik. Size matters in boxing. Louis, Ali, Frazier, ar simply to small. They might be greater, But they couldn't beat either Klit,

Actually from what I've seen of Pavlik I'd favor Morales over him TODAY.

Poet

RimmyDelicious
01-29-2010, 09:59 AM
I think Vitali would have matched up well with Louis, Frazier, Foreman and Tyson and not so well with Ali and Holmes. Wlad I envision getting starched by Louis, Frazier, Foreman and Tyson while handling Ali and Holmes. Different skill sets, different strengths and weakness.

Ziggy Stardust
01-29-2010, 11:45 AM
Supreme ownage!!! Somebody help me get Obama back in the green. You don't always have to agree with him, but he makes a damn good case more times than not..

Won't let me hit him with green again until I "spread it around" some more :(

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
01-29-2010, 12:07 PM
Supreme ownage!!! Somebody help me get Obama back in the green. You don't always have to agree with him, but he makes a damn good case more times than not..

Hey! Just a thought, see if Versatile or PBDS or one of the other huge hitters can give him a big shot.

Poet

Obama
01-29-2010, 12:09 PM
I really don't mind being red guys. Thanks anyways tho.

donkim
01-29-2010, 03:50 PM
10 Best Heavyweights from the 1940s (On their best day)


Joe Louis
Jersey Joe Walcott
Ezzard Charles
Jimmy Bivins
Billy Conn
Elmer Ray
Tami Mauriello
Max Baer (1940 was his last good year, but he was far from great at this point)
Bob Pastor
Gus Lesnevich (LHW Champ who had a pretty damn good 1947 @ HW)

Honorable Mention

Melio Bettina

Lem Franklin

Lee Oma

Abe Simon (KOed Jersey Joe Walcott)

Arturo Godoy (Took Joe Louis to a SD)

[B]Turkey Thompson (KOed Elmer Ray)

Lee Savold (Top 10 rated for half of the 40s, oddly enough at the beginning and the end)




OK, count all the Black dudes up, then count which ones Louis never fought



After you do all that, if you still feel the same way, well, quite frankly I don't know what to tell you. It's a matter of intrinsic prejudice on your end.







No prejudice on my part,dunce.







Anyone who can keep getting up from Foreman's shots and take a battering from Ali without going down has a decent chin in my book. I can't believe you say Joe cherry picked and avoided fighters, I'm no expert on the rankings at that time but I'm sure you have been shown on here countless times that Joe fought whoever he needed to fight.


Down eleven times throughout his career and eight times in just eight rounds(six in two the first time) against the only puncher frazier ever stepped in the ring with.


Had frazier not ducked and avoided punchers his entire career and actually proved a chin against a big puncher,then I really wouldn't have a case for questioning frazier's chin(or lack of).


frazier fought in what is called the "golden age" of heavyweight boxing.As competitive and talented a division as there ever has been,and yet he relied on the likes of Quarry and Ali to do his work for him.


While these men weren't avoiding ranked punchers,frazier was sitting around with his team,cherry picking the right opponents and fighting just twice a year at most.


I can offer you a qoute from frazier's old trainer and manager Yank Durham,where he himself admits that his fighter will avoid fighting a certain ranked contender.



And the most ludicrous claim you put forth is that Joe had no heart, he would have kept getting up from George's shots until he was dead if you had let him, and he wanted to go into the 15th in Manila with barely any eyesight and a face looking like a slab of meat. It just confounds me as to why you harbour this agenda, it's just pointless.



foreman really wasn't catching frazier that clean on many of his shots.This was the first time that frazier had ever stepped in the ring with a puncher and any time a punch even grazed his cranium....he was going down as his chin couldn't take it.


forgive me,but I'm no fool.I'm not going to believe that frazier's trainer would pull his fighter out right before the last round of a world heavyweight title fight.The whole "sit down, son,no one will forget what you did here today" tale is a good one,ut it's not realistic.


Vitali Klitschko charged out of his corner and protested the officials stopping his fight.He couldn't believe that they would deny him his oppurtunity and despite the loss,he made alot of fans that day due to the heart and courage that he displayed against a great heavyweight champion and puncher in Lennox Lewis

Obama
01-29-2010, 03:58 PM
Turkey Thompson was far from elite.

GJC
01-29-2010, 05:26 PM
[B][SIZE="2"]10 Best Heavyweights from the 1940s (On their best day)


Joe Louis
Jersey Joe Walcott
Ezzard Charles
Jimmy Bivins
Billy Conn
Elmer Ray
Tami Mauriello
Max Baer (1940 was his last good year, but he was far from great at this point)
Bob Pastor
Gus Lesnevich (LHW Champ who had a pretty damn good 1947 @ HW)


Honorable Mention
Melio Bettina
Lem Franklin
Lee Oma
Abe Simon (KOed Jersey Joe Walcott)
Arturo Godoy (Took Joe Louis to a SD)
Turkey Thompson (KOed Elmer Ray)
Lee Savold (Top 10 rated for half of the 40s, oddly enough at the beginning and the end)



Nice list Obama but you sure you haven't forgotten anyone?
{------------------ cough

Obama
01-29-2010, 05:29 PM
Nice list Obama but you sure you haven't forgotten anyone?
{------------------ cough

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Nope. Can't say I forgot anyone. :D

GJC
01-29-2010, 05:36 PM
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Nope. Can't say I forgot anyone. :D
lol, you know that pic in my profile isn't Tami Mauriello right? :)

GJC
01-29-2010, 05:38 PM
I will hold my hands up that I will biasedly put Baksi shamefully high but ain't no way he doesn't make the top 17!!!!!!

Obama
01-29-2010, 05:41 PM
I will hold my hands up that I will biasedly put Baksi shamefully high but ain't no way he doesn't make the top 17!!!!!!

I spose I can rate him over Savold.

GJC
01-29-2010, 05:46 PM
I spose I can rate him over Savold.
Thank you for grudgingly putting him over the Savold who he half killed lol ;)
I shall carefully try moving him further up the ratings until he gets put above Louis :)

Obama
01-29-2010, 05:48 PM
Thank you for grudgingly putting him over the Savold who he half killed lol ;)
I shall carefully try moving him further up the ratings until he gets put above Louis :)

How bout I put him over Turkey and we call it a day?

GJC
01-29-2010, 06:27 PM
How bout I put him over Turkey and we call it a day?
hmmmm must admit that Tami Mauriello place has caught my eye lol

JAB5239
02-02-2010, 06:15 PM
Hey! Just a thought, see if Versatile or PBDS or one of the other huge hitters can give him a big shot.

Poet

Got OldGringo to help out and I contacted a few other.

The_Demon
02-02-2010, 06:24 PM
the Klits are skillful fighters, workrate...Wlad not so much, Vitali's is okay.

As for toughness, Vitali quit on his stool in a fight he had in the bag man, in the bag, no way could he have lost that on the cards if he just kept going for 2 more rounds....

Wlad has always gotten up when floored but x3 KO losses to relatively average opponents count against him.

I think a guy like Ali would be way too fast for the Klitschko's, he's just as long as them, not much smaller, and his speed and movement would win him decisions vs both, he could have bits of trouble with Vitali's awkwardness, but overall he wins.

Against Louis they have a better chance, but with Wlad I can't see Louis not landing on Wlad and busting him up, Louis was a sharp puncher and I think he would knock Wlad out.

I think Louis would chop Vitali down and stop him on cuts too. Just a sharp puncher who can take the space off them and capitalise.

Vs Frazier, I think Frazier gives Wlad all sorts of problems, just on him non stop, hitting him big lefts and bobbing under his jab, I think he would stop him

Vitali-Frazier would be a good fight, they would stand in and mix it and both land some great shots, but Vitali has opted out before due to an injury and there's no way his stamina matches Frazier's. I think it's a tough fight early with some exchanges and maybe even a trip to the canvas for Joe, but he takes over as the fight goes on to win a decision.


very good post

kadyo
02-03-2010, 07:42 PM
Got OldGringo to help out and I contacted a few other.Just gave him one, homey.

JAB5239
02-03-2010, 07:58 PM
Just gave him one, homey.

Thank you my friend, I owe you one.