View Full Version : Was Larry Holmes made bitter by the lack of respect


Dynamite Kid
01-25-2010, 07:30 PM
Was Larry Holmes made bitter by the lack of respect he got or would he have always been outspoken and and bitter regardless?

I get the feeling Larry would of loved to have been embraced and that he wouldn't of been as outspoken as he was if he had gotten his props that he deserved from the get go.

I think it made him bitter but by the same token i guess you could say it also drove him onto be great.

What do you think?

CarlosG815
01-25-2010, 08:10 PM
I think some people are just like that.

Look at Paul Malignaggi. That guy gets more props than he even deserves and he never shuts up.

Joe Frazier was the same way and he got a lot of respect his entire career.

Jim Jeffries
01-25-2010, 09:01 PM
Holmes and Mayweather Jr both learned the hard way that crapping on ATGs is not the way to garner respect from fans.

Larry gets plenty of respect these days though, most people have then in or near their top 5 ATG HW list, and consider him to have possessed the greatest jab in HW history.

mhager91490
01-25-2010, 09:51 PM
Was Larry Holmes made bitter by the lack of respect he got or would he have always been outspoken and and bitter regardless?

I get the feeling Larry would of loved to have been embraced and that he wouldn't of been as outspoken as he was if he had gotten his props that he deserved from the get go.

I think it made him bitter but by the same token i guess you could say it also drove him onto be great.

What do you think?

I think that you're probably right, people didn't view his beating of Ali as a passing the torch moment, they seemed to think he was stealing it, a lot of people weren't ready to see their hero leave and Larry basically forced him out. I've always enjoyed Larry's style, more-so than Ali in all honesty but he wasn't as marketable as Ali, came along at the wrong time, beat the wrong guy to be on top and just wasn't as dominant a performer as Ali much of the time.

The only problem I have is with some of his fans, they relate the negative stigma he got during his career as an excuse to say that he is underrated. I have never understood how someone who is almost universilly rated in HW top tens, mostly in the top 5 is underrated.

JAB5239
01-26-2010, 04:08 AM
Was Larry Holmes made bitter by the lack of respect he got or would he have always been outspoken and and bitter regardless?

I get the feeling Larry would of loved to have been embraced and that he wouldn't of been as outspoken as he was if he had gotten his props that he deserved from the get go.

I think it made him bitter but by the same token i guess you could say it also drove him onto be great.

What do you think?

Holmes would have always been outspoken in my opinion. I didn't like a lot of things he said but he never came of as a phony to me. He didn't just say things to get attention. I can respect that, he was real. I do agree some of that bitterness drove him to be a great fighter though. He was never willing to just lay down.

miron_lang
01-26-2010, 04:54 AM
Holmes would have always been outspoken in my opinion. I didn't like a lot of things he said but he never came of as a phony to me. He didn't just say things to get attention. I can respect that, he was real. I do agree some of that bitterness drove him to be a great fighter though. He was never willing to just lay down.

As a kid. I hated Holmes for beating Ali. Ive always rooted againts him and was really dissapointed when he kayoed Cooney.

Now I realize that he's one the Great Heavyweights of all time. So many title defenses. TOP 5 at least of all time definitely at Heavy. Only Ali and Louis are clearly ahead of him.

Ray*
01-26-2010, 05:25 AM
Holmes came in at the wrong time, He came when all the top guys in the 70's were going out and the problem was people didnt give much respect to the next generation coming through, He was bitter in a way because of that, He felt he could have compete and beat all those guys in their prime and in a way i think he would have compete with them.

Dynamite Kid
01-26-2010, 05:26 AM
I think that you're probably right, people didn't view his beating of Ali as a passing the torch moment, they seemed to think he was stealing it, a lot of people weren't ready to see their hero leave and Larry basically forced him out. I've always enjoyed Larry's style, more-so than Ali in all honesty but he wasn't as marketable as Ali, came along at the wrong time, beat the wrong guy to be on top and just wasn't as dominant a performer as Ali much of the time.

The only problem I have is with some of his fans, they relate the negative stigma he got during his career as an excuse to say that he is underrated. I have never understood how someone who is almost universilly rated in HW top tens, mostly in the top 5 is underrated.


Holmes would have always been outspoken in my opinion. I didn't like a lot of things he said but he never came of as a phony to me. He didn't just say things to get attention. I can respect that, he was real. I do agree some of that bitterness drove him to be a great fighter though.He was never willing to just lay down.

That was an excellent was of putting it mhager91490:boxing:.

Thats the thing i admired most about Larry Holmes JAB5239, if you were gonna beat him you would have to rip the title from him. I think there is something to be said for guys that earn what they have got instead of these fighters that get it given to them.

BritishBoxing92
01-26-2010, 06:20 AM
Was Larry Holmes made bitter by the lack of respect he got or would he have always been outspoken and and bitter regardless?

I get the feeling Larry would of loved to have been embraced and that he wouldn't of been as outspoken as he was if he had gotten his props that he deserved from the get go.

I think it made him bitter but by the same token i guess you could say it also drove him onto be great.

What do you think?

larry holmes is very underrated...people didnt like him because he beat muhammad ali not even on points....the fight had to be stopped at the 11th round when the bell went...plus him and ali were sparring partners but holmes wanted to make it to the big time...people also forget that Holmes beat guys like George Cooney and Earnie Shavers..

bojangles1987
01-26-2010, 07:05 AM
Larry Holmes had the unfortunate spot of following up Muhammad Ali, and no matter who that had been they would have faced constant comparison. Holmes wasn't as good as Ali, and the guy I'm sure heard it all the time.

sonnyboyx2
01-26-2010, 07:20 AM
Was Larry Holmes made bitter by the lack of respect he got or would he have always been outspoken and and bitter regardless?

I get the feeling Larry would of loved to have been embraced and that he wouldn't of been as outspoken as he was if he had gotten his props that he deserved from the get go.

I think it made him bitter but by the same token i guess you could say it also drove him onto be great.

What do you think?

interesting topic... i read Holmes Autobiography "Against The Odds" around 10yrs or so ago and i feel he has been bitter all his career, he is bitter because Howard Cosell labelled him as a weak-chinned fighter who would not make it to the top, he calls Cosell everything in his book... IMO Holmes has always been bitter but alot of what he says is the truth, yet i cannot go along with his claim that he is the best ever, he is fringe ATG Top 12

EzzardFan
01-26-2010, 07:23 AM
I think he made the best of the era he operated in. I totally respect him for the sheer volume of title defences.

The boxers Larry fought were not in the same league as the guys that were around in the 70s IMO. That's not to say that Larry wouldn't have been equally effective a decade earlier, he probably would have been.

I also found Larry boring to watch. He's not my type of fighter. I like watching swarmers and also exciting technical boxers. I don't dispute that Homes was technical but he was far from exciting. He preferred to stay on the outside of his jab.

His personality also came across as very abrasive when he was younger. True that also improved with age.

I don't take issue with him beating Ali. We all know that Larry didn't want that fight. I do however take issue with his decision over Ken Norton. IMO Norton deserved to win that fight.

sonnyboyx2
01-26-2010, 08:28 AM
I think he made the best of the era he operated in. I totally respect him for the sheer volume of title defences.

The boxers Larry fought were not in the same league as the guys that were around in the 70s IMO. That's not to say that Larry wouldn't have been equally effective a decade earlier, he probably would have been.

I also found Larry boring to watch. He's not my type of fighter. I like watching swarmers and also exciting technical boxers. I don't dispute that Homes was technical but he was far from exciting. He preferred to stay on the outside of his jab.

His personality also came across as very abrasive when he was younger. True that also improved with age.

I don't take issue with him beating Ali. We all know that Larry didn't want that fight. I do however take issue with his decision over Ken Norton. IMO Norton deserved to win that fight.

i agree with all you say and IMO Norton won that fight

Dynamite Kid
01-26-2010, 09:15 AM
I think he made the best of the era he operated in. I totally respect him for the sheer volume of title defences.

The boxers Larry fought were not in the same league as the guys that were around in the 70s IMO. That's not to say that Larry wouldn't have been equally effective a decade earlier, he probably would have been.

I also found Larry boring to watch. He's not my type of fighter. I like watching swarmers and also exciting technical boxers. I don't dispute that Homes was technical but he was far from exciting. He preferred to stay on the outside of his jab.

His personality also came across as very abrasive when he was younger. True that also improved with age.

I don't take issue with him beating Ali. We all know that Larry didn't want that fight. I do however take issue with his decision over Ken Norton. IMO Norton deserved to win that fight.


I have a lot of respect for Larry Holmes and i like his personality, yes he is a bit bitter but i think he was a really down to earth guy, thats the impression i got anyway.

I agree he was not particularly exciting though, infact he was pretty boring at times. Homles did have some good fights that i would watch over and over again though........Norton,Shavers 2,Weaver 2,Williams and a few others but yeah he was a bit boring overall imo.


Hey sonnyboyx2 did he say something derogatory about Butterbean in his book? the reason i ask is because i was watching an interview with him where they asked him why he did not get on with Butterbean and referred to something Larry had said about him in a book.

EzzardFan
01-26-2010, 02:02 PM
One thing I'll say abut Holmes... everyone says how great his jab was, and I don't dispute that although I think Liston's was better... but his uppercut - WOW! He was the master of that punch, at least among his fellow heavyweights.

TheGreatA
01-26-2010, 02:04 PM
One thing I'll say abut Holmes... everyone says how great his jab was, and I don't dispute that although I think Liston's was better... but his uppercut - WOW! He was the master of that punch, at least among his fellow heavyweights.

Agreed. Holmes's uppercut turned the tide in many of his fights. The jab was brilliant but jabs didn't KO his opponents, outside of Ossie Ocasio of course...

The uppercut played a major part in most of his stoppages.

TheGreatA
01-26-2010, 02:08 PM
http://i38.tinypic.com/zwnqzr.jpg

Dynamite Kid
01-26-2010, 02:09 PM
Agreed. Holmes's uppercut turned the tide in many of his fights. The jab was brilliant but jabs didn't KO his opponents, outside of Ossie Ocasio of course...

The uppercut played a major part in most of his stoppages.

Yep turn the Weaver fight on its head.

GJC
01-27-2010, 07:52 PM
Think Holmes just had that kind of make up.
He had a tough act to follow after Ali but so did Ezzard Charles after Louis.

Bigdaddy_Vh
01-28-2010, 12:02 AM
i think Holmes was bitter at times and came across to many as an ******* but, as many have said here, Larry was real and you cannot take that from him. It wasnt showboating or trying to get attention, imo. It was him being who he was.