View Full Version : Who Took More Risks In There Career, Roy Jones Jr Or Floyd Mayweather Jr?


Southpaw16BF
01-25-2010, 12:27 PM
You do you feel took the more risks in there career?

Give and answer and explain why.:boxing:

Obama
01-25-2010, 12:49 PM
Depends.

Risks that resulted in a W, Mayweather.

Risks period, Jones. Jones 6 losses bump his risk factor up significantly, nearly as much as all his wins combined.

CarlosG815
01-25-2010, 12:54 PM
Roy Jones. Fighting Tarver was a huge risk but he did it.

That fight outweighs any risk May ever took.

Obama
01-25-2010, 01:17 PM
Roy Jones. Fighting Tarver was a huge risk but he did it.

That fight outweighs any risk May ever took.

How the hell does Tarver outweigh Corrales?

Jones was favored to beat Tarver.
Mayweather was favored to lose to Corrales.
Tarver never would have made the top 10 p4p list without beating RJJ.
Corrales stayed on the top 10 p4p list even after losing to Mayweather.
Tarver had one loss and SD victory over an over-the-hill Reggie Johnson going into the first Jones fight.
Corrales was undefeated with 33 wins, 29 of which ended inside of the distance.

It really is no contest. You got the excuse that Roy drained himself coming back down to LHW, but that's about it. It's not enough.

CarlosG815
01-25-2010, 01:26 PM
How the hell does Tarver outweigh Corrales?

Jones was favored to beat Tarver.
Mayweather was favored to lose to Corrales.
Tarver never would have made the top 10 p4p list without beating RJJ.
Corrales stayed on the top 10 p4p list even after losing to Mayweather.
Tarver had one loss and SD victory over an over-the-hill Reggie Johnson going into the first Jones fight.
Corrales was undefeated with 33 wins, 29 of which ended inside of the distance.

It really is no contest. You got the excuse that Roy drained himself coming back down to LHW, but that's about it. It's not enough.

IIRC Floyd was favored to beat Corrales, 7-5. I don't remember the exact weight, but didn't Corrales have to drop from lightweight to super feather to fight Floy?

Obama
01-25-2010, 01:38 PM
IIRC Floyd was favored to beat Corrales, 7-5. I don't remember the exact weight, but didn't Corrales have to drop from lightweight to super feather to fight Floy?

You recall incorrectly. Corrales was the betting favorite. It wasn't a huge difference, but it existed.

And no, Corrales didn't drop from LW to SFW to fight Floyd. Corrales just defended his IBF SFW Championship against Angel Manfredy before he met Floyd. Mayweather on the other hand just fought Emanuel Augustus at LW, the only fight that damaged his "pretty" face in his entire career.

Sugarj
01-25-2010, 02:36 PM
I go with Roy Jones:

Bernard Hopkins (a bit green but hell, a great fighter even in the 90s)

James Toney (at the time many rated him pound for pound one of the best)

Montel Griffin (undefeated, coming off a good win over Toney, outboxed Roy at times first time round. )

John Ruiz (By any standards, a solid, proven heavyweight. If a little dull)

Antonio Tarver x 3!!!

Joe Calzaghe (Many rated him pound for pound top five at the time)

Danny Green (Dont laugh!! A very heavy puncher, at cruiserweight in his home town in Australia)


I think this lot shades Coralles, past prime De La Hoya, Baldomir, Castillo, and Hatton/Marquez above their best weights.

IMDAZED
01-25-2010, 02:50 PM
You recall incorrectly. Corrales was the betting favorite. It wasn't a huge difference, but it existed.

And no, Corrales didn't drop from LW to SFW to fight Floyd. Corrales just defended his IBF SFW Championship against Angel Manfredy before he met Floyd. Mayweather on the other hand just fought Emanuel Augustus at LW, the only fight that damaged his "pretty" face in his entire career.

Toney was a bigger risk than Corrales.

CarlosG815
01-25-2010, 05:07 PM
Toney was a bigger risk than Corrales.

Yes. He took far more, which is why he has losses.

And I can't find where the odds for the Mayweather Corrales fight are, but I coulda swore Mayweather was favored to win. Does anybody have this?

IMDAZED
01-25-2010, 05:11 PM
Yes. He took far more, which is why he has losses.

And I can't find where the odds for the Mayweather Corrales fight are, but I coulda swore Mayweather was favored to win. Does anybody have this?

I'm pretty sure Floyd was the favorite. But many people were picking Corrales.

One more round
01-25-2010, 05:33 PM
Ruiz while not all that good, was a natural HW and a true risk for Roy. Fights vs Toney and Tarver were big risks too.

But when people in NSB say Floyd never took risks they have no idea what they are talking about. The 6''0 puncher undefeated puncher Corrales, dominant relentless lightweight champ Castillo (who nearly beat Floyd the first time, but Floyd took the risk of rematching him) fighting good champ Hernandez in his first title fight, taking on the much bigger Oscar at 154- all these were risks that other fighters wouldn't have taken.

The way Floyd came up the ranks is the way it should be done. These days a lot of the prospects are matched vs the softest paper champ for their first title. Hernandez was a good fighter and a real champ.

Overall it is difficult to say who took more risks, but Roy taking on a natural HW weighing 193lbs probably edges it here.

CarlosG815
01-25-2010, 05:37 PM
I'm pretty sure Floyd was the favorite. But many people were picking Corrales.

Thats what my thinking was. Floyd was favored, but Corrales was the fan favorite.

project xxx1
01-25-2010, 05:47 PM
floyd moving up to fight castillo for the title when he had 41kos out of 44 wins he had at the time,was a big risk but rjj fighting toney was just as big aswell,id say about equal

wmute
01-25-2010, 05:47 PM
It's hard to say. Floyd at 30-35 had an excellent. His run at 140 is unfortunately history.

People bash Jones run at 75, but I think it was very good, if not excellent. On the other hand at 60-68, he does not have much besides Hopkins and Jones. I don't think Hopkins was being perceived as a big risk back then btw, but I might be wrong.

All the other risks you guys are talking about now (Tarver and Ruiz), Roy was older than Floyd is now.

EDIT: to be clear, on average Mayweather had a better run, but Toney stands out on the resume more than anything else.

cooper5
01-25-2010, 05:55 PM
I favor Jones strongly. I am objective and speak as an observer but Mayweather left the risks at 130 lbs. I read in the forums last week an interesting comment, "Jose Luis Castillo was to Mayweather, like Rosario was to Camacho"

wmute
01-25-2010, 06:05 PM
I favor Jones strongly. I am objective and speak as an observer but Mayweather left the risks at 130 lbs. I read in the forums last week an interesting comment, "Jose Luis Castillo was to Mayweather, like Rosario was to Camacho"

That is an intriguing metaphor, except I did not see Camacho-Rosario 2.

bojangles1987
01-26-2010, 07:10 AM
Come on, Roy Jones won a heavyweight title and fought everyone in the division he stayed in most his career. Not to mention his career lately, even though it's gone bad.

A Roy Jones equivalent moving through the same divisions Floyd has doesn't take this long to start fighting welterweights, he has already beaten Cotto, Margarito, Mosley, and at least had a fight against Pac.

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 10:39 AM
Do you really believe that?

The LHW division is the one he stayed in primarily throughout his career. And he fought almost everyone there.

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 10:52 AM
Shame he didn't do that in all his other weight classes, Benn vs Jones was the fight I always wanted to see.

I would have liked to have seen it as well. Nevertheless, I don't believe it was Jones' fault. In fact, I'd say it was the other guy who seemed unwilling.

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 10:59 AM
Benn turned down a career-high offer from HBO to fight and also quoted some ridiculous amounts ($10 mil). But even based on what you said, how do you possibly blame Jones?

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 11:10 AM
Well the first time I blame Jones, he was Benn's mandatory at the time. The second time as I quoted was neither of their fault, rather Don King's.

This third instance I don't know much about, where was it reported and where can I read up about it?

Jones was a middleweight who fought over the limit several times. He and Hopkins were the top two contenders for the IBF crown, which is why they fought for it. Are you telling me that Jones was the mandatory for two belts in two different divisions simultaneously?

Finally, using your own "three instances" theory, you blame Jones for the fight not happening when he was a prospect yet are ignoring the other two times when he had a belt and Benn and his team were reluctant to make the fight--for whatever reason. Strange.

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 11:32 AM
I can answer this question in two ways:
Hopkins after 20 fights at SMW was in line for a shot at the IBF SMW title, I think Iran was the champ at the time, he dropped down and within one fight he was made Toney's no 1 contender for his IBF MW belt.

What do you mean, was in line for a shot?

Jones had a number of fights at SMW catch weights about 5 or so, along the way he picked up the WBC SMW intercontental belt. So it seems the answer to your question is yes?

Jones was never Benn's mandatory prior to picking up the middleweight title.

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 11:38 AM
Jones picked up the vacant WBC Continental Americas super middleweight title when he beat Percy Harris in 1992

Are you implying this made him a mandatory challenger or something? It doesn't, bro. Furthermore, Jones was considered a middle - yes he fought over the weight several times but he was never considered a super middle until he vacated his title. Even as a middleweight prospect, he was offered a chance to fight for the 154lb title. But he was at no point during that time a mandatory for a SMW title.

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 11:40 AM
He must of been in line for a shot, how else did he become Toney mandatory with only about 1-2 fights at MW. Hopkins in a Ring Magazine said that he was Toney's Mandatory before Toney moved up. Its the Ring Magazine with Hopkins and Toney on the cover I think its the year 2003 issue.

Because he got a shot at middle so quickly, you believe he must have been in line for a shot at 168? That is a lot of assuming!


Ill have to do some digging, ill get back to when I find something

Good luck with that.

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 11:51 AM
Don't contenders carry their ranking with them when they move divsions? Or are you saying that he enters the MW divison has no ranking whats so ever has 1-2 fights then is made the IBF no 1 contender?

You don't carry your rankings with you when you move up or down. What you also don't understand is that a lot of the fights you're looking at on BOXREC were middleweight bouts where they agreed to fight over the limit. They counted nothing towards any SMW ranking :lol1:. But they do to your MW ranking!

In sure thats the the Pharoahs said when Imhotep wanted to build a Pyramid.
Unfortunately for you, the difference here is that Jones was never a mandatory for a SMW title while he was a middleweight prospect.

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 12:00 PM
Cool, learn something new everyday

But that means that the answer to my question was, Hopkins had no ranking at mw, but because he fought their twice he was made the IBF mandatory.

Hopkins had fought at middle plenty of times. Like I said, those include all those over-the-weight bouts you saw on boxrec - those were middleweight bouts fought over the limit! He was the IBF middleweight #1 contender, actually. Jones was #2.

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 12:11 PM
Hence, Mr. Smith, I think it's time you rethink your whole "Jones avoided Benn" theory. Especially since you have three instances (I remember only one) of when the fight could have happened and one never existed while the other two lie squarely on the shoulders of the opposite guy and his team.

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 12:15 PM
Toney vs Hopkins would of been fun to see as well.
Where can I read about the Benn-Jones HBO offer?

I don't recall where you can read it. It was actually mentioned by HBO during one of Jones' bouts and also during an interview with him prior to that same bout (Brannon?). However, I have seen someone post Benn's comments on this, right here on boxingscene. This is where he mentions that he'd be willing to fight Roy for 10mil. Just run a search on Benn's name.

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 12:39 PM
I have come across all kinds of Benn quotes and interviews here a lot posted by a guy called Juy Juy, but he never posts links or quotes sources, so I'm not sure if they are trustworthy.

Ive seen that Brannon prefight interview with Jim Lamphey, Ron Bourges and a couple of other guys and I'm not sure what to make of it.
Collins spend his whole career fighting in semi obscurity, his big chance came with the Benn and Eubank fights, I read a couple of his interviews as well, no way would he have turned down a decent offer by Roy. A fight with Roy would of been his first mega payday.

HBO cant have it both ways either on one hand they are saying other fighters have turned down offers the next they are calling him Reluctant Roy

Larry Merchant during Tarver II said," thats what happens when you avoid punchers."

Jim Lampley said during the intro of Jones Ruiz that," Jones is a fighter that doesn't like taking risks."


http://doghouseboxing.com/DHB/Cassell012409.htm



Asked why his resume does not include some names that should be on it, Jones said, “I had my reasons for doing what I was doing. I made (boxing) so delightful that you didn’t need to watch me fight another `name’ fighter. I could fight anybody. You knew when Roy Jones went into the ring he was going to do something spectacular. When (Kelly) Pavlik stepped into the ring with Bernard Hopkins, the people knew they were going to get a regular old fight. Now, when Roy comes, it’s going to be a show. Not only is he good and is going to beat the hell out of who he is fighting, but he is going to look good doing it.”


http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/6327/boxing-mantle-roy-jones-legacy/

What are you getting at here? Specifically, what is the point you're trying to make?

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 12:46 PM
The point I'm trying to make is that even the HBO guys change their story, which is why its so hard to know what really happen concerning anything.

Where did they change their story? Yes, during his LHW reign they were disappointed in certain decisions he made - specifically, turning down the Buster Douglas fight as well as the Vasily Jirov fight. But that in no way contradicts anything. Particularly, what occured at 168. Or did you think they were calling him a non-risk taker when he vacated his middleweight crown and moved up to challenge the undefeated 168 IBF champ, the man considered one of the three best in the world? You're grasping at straws here.

IMDAZED
01-26-2010, 12:58 PM
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Not really I know this is a lie, so why should I take anything else they say as gospel.

You know it's a lie?

BEEHOP
01-26-2010, 10:12 PM
Who cares? Look were Jones is now, because of those "risks"

UKRAINIANGIANTS
01-26-2010, 10:32 PM
They are both inferior, but at least Jones dared to fight a mofo like Calzaghe

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apokalips
03-20-2010, 02:17 PM
They are both inferior, but at least Jones dared to fight a mofo like Calzaghe

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Jones was done (or at least viewed as done) when he fought Calzaghe though so IMO he had nothing to lose.

I also don't think looking at who was favourite to win determines risk because Jones in his prime would be favourite against anyone just like Mayweather in his prime/now would be even if he is just the slight favourite (even against Pacquiao)

I think they both took more risks than is perceived and they are probably too good for their own good in that regard. Anyway I'd say its about equal, maybe Jones pips it

Thread Stealer
03-20-2010, 07:06 PM
Do you guys think it was a bigger risk for Jones to take on the much bigger, but relatively mediocre talent in Ruiz, or Mayweather to take on De La Hoya? De La Hoya's weight advantage was obviously not as big as Ruiz's, but he was a much better fighter than Ruiz.