View Full Version : Prime Dick Tiger vs Prime Jake Lamotta At 160lb


Southpaw16BF
01-23-2010, 07:52 PM
Who Wins And How?

Ray*
01-24-2010, 08:42 AM
Dick Tiger would have KO Jake lamotta IMO, Tiger was one of those fighter would just loves to fight and his style would have been difficult to handle for la motta.

Silencers
01-24-2010, 08:53 AM
What a fight this would've been, both guys liked to come forward and liked to provide action while doing it. I do think that Tiger was the more intelligent fighter of the two though and possessed a bigger repertoire, so I think he wins this by decision in an action packed fight.

Ray*
01-24-2010, 08:57 AM
What a fight this would've been, both guys liked to come forward and liked to provide action while doing it. I do think that Tiger was the more intelligent fighter of the two though and possessed a bigger repertoire, so I think he wins this by decision in an action packed fight.

Those two could have fought in a phone-booth.

Silencers
01-24-2010, 09:02 AM
Those two could have fought in a phone-booth.

For sure, they would've been shoulder to shoulder all fight.

TheGreatA
01-24-2010, 10:23 AM
The big risk for Tiger in this fight is if he were to be outworked because LaMotta will be throwing a lot more punches in combinations than Tiger. Otherwise the match-up should suit him stylistically. He was a very good counter-puncher and matches LaMotta's physical strength which the likes of Ray Robinson, Marcel Cerdan and Holman Williams could not.

Fullmer had to literally run against Tiger in order to survive. LaMotta won't do that but I doubt that a prime Jake would be KO'd by Tiger. He took it from a prime Ray Robinson, Lloyd Marshall, Bob Satterfield and laughed it off. Tiger's KO record is deceiving though, he knocked out many durable fighters. Didn't just stop them but knocked them out. So there will be a possibility of a stoppage win because LaMotta will walk right into Tiger which suits him but LaMotta was a better defensive fighter than the likes of Fullmer or Rivera who just stood there and took it for the most part, until Fullmer got on his bicycle.

I can't see a prime LaMotta being "massacred" the way he was against Robinson in their 6th fight because he always displayed very good stamina in the late rounds while at his best. Only his weight-making later got to him.

Ray*
01-24-2010, 12:48 PM
The big risk for Tiger in this fight is if he were to be outworked because LaMotta will be throwing a lot more punches in combinations than Tiger. Otherwise the match-up should suit him stylistically. He was a very good counter-puncher and matches LaMotta's physical strength which the likes of Ray Robinson, Marcel Cerdan and Holman Williams could not.

Fullmer had to literally run against Tiger in order to survive. LaMotta won't do that but I doubt that a prime Jake would be KO'd by Tiger. He took it from a prime Ray Robinson, Lloyd Marshall, Bob Satterfield and laughed it off. Tiger's KO record is deceiving though, he knocked out many durable fighters. Didn't just stop them but knocked them out. So there will be a possibility of a stoppage win because LaMotta will walk right into Tiger which suits him but LaMotta was a better defensive fighter than the likes of Fullmer or Rivera who just stood there and took it for the most part, until Fullmer got on his bicycle.

I can't see a prime LaMotta being "massacred" the way he was against Robinson in their 6th fight because he always displayed very good stamina in the late rounds while at his best. Only his weight-making later got to him.


No way Would Lamotta be massacred but Tiger is a big Middleweight would does well against fighters who are short like him, Fullmer had to stay away from Tiger because he doesnt have the intensity/chin that Lamotta possess.

I would still favour Tiger slightly but would rule out Lamotta by any chance.

GJC
01-24-2010, 01:11 PM
Great match up I'm suprised that this one hasn't come up before, both probably as physically strong a middleweight as there has been. If we was going for a best of ten match up i'd favour La Motta as Tiger could be a bit inconsistant. One fight who do you risk putting your money on....Tiger think unless you are a dancer he is always going to give you hell at his best.

TheGreatA
01-24-2010, 01:14 PM
Tiger was a good counter puncher but at times you get the feeling that he would have been better off by being more of a "tiger" in the ring. Look at how he takes apart Fullmer in their third fight, that's probably the most aggressive I've ever seen him. Often he would appear timid, content on doing just enough which wasn't always enough.

He should have put more pressure on boxers such as Griffith, Giardello, Archer.

mhager91490
01-25-2010, 10:08 PM
Hard match-up to predict, neither man at their best are going to get stopped by the other. Tiger was a little better technically but LaMotta was cagey on the inside and despite what Raging Bull might suggest he didn't get hit with every punch that comes his way. If I was forced to make a pick I would go with Tiger.

sonnyboyx2
01-26-2010, 01:27 AM
The big risk for Tiger in this fight is if he were to be outworked because LaMotta will be throwing a lot more punches in combinations than Tiger. Otherwise the match-up should suit him stylistically. He was a very good counter-puncher and matches LaMotta's physical strength which the likes of Ray Robinson, Marcel Cerdan and Holman Williams could not.

Fullmer had to literally run against Tiger in order to survive. LaMotta won't do that but I doubt that a prime Jake would be KO'd by Tiger. He took it from a prime Ray Robinson, Lloyd Marshall, Bob Satterfield and laughed it off. Tiger's KO record is deceiving though, he knocked out many durable fighters. Didn't just stop them but knocked them out. So there will be a possibility of a stoppage win because LaMotta will walk right into Tiger which suits him but LaMotta was a better defensive fighter than the likes of Fullmer or Rivera who just stood there and took it for the most part, until Fullmer got on his bicycle.

I can't see a prime LaMotta being "massacred" the way he was against Robinson in their 6th fight because he always displayed very good stamina in the late rounds while at his best. Only his weight-making later got to him.

i would have to question you on your thought that LaMotta was physicaly to strong for Marcel Cerdan

TheGreatA
01-26-2010, 09:34 AM
i would have to question you on your thought that LaMotta was physicaly to strong for Marcel Cerdan

Film proves it.

Cerdan was a former welterweight while LaMotta came down from light heavyweight. The results can be seen here:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Onb-p3YsQk8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Onb-p3YsQk8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Cerdan certainly no match for LaMotta in the strength category.

sonnyboyx2
01-26-2010, 01:49 PM
Film proves it.

Cerdan was a former welterweight while LaMotta came down from light heavyweight. The results can be seen here:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Onb-p3YsQk8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Onb-p3YsQk8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Cerdan certainly no match for LaMotta in the strength category.

Cerdan was wrestled to the floor in the opening round and suffered a shoulder injury which forced his retirement in the 10th... i have quite a few Cerdan fights and would rate him as one of the strongest Middleweights ever.. take a look at his physique & strength against Randolph Turpin

TheGreatA
01-26-2010, 02:01 PM
Cerdan was wrestled to the floor in the opening round and suffered a shoulder injury which forced his retirement in the 10th... i have quite a few Cerdan fights and would rate him as one of the strongest Middleweights ever.. take a look at his physique & strength against Randolph Turpin

You probably mean Dick Turpin, Randy's brother. Cerdan was strong but not stronger than LaMotta. Why do you think LaMotta was able to wrestle Cerdan to the floor? He was bullying Cerdan with his strength, just like he did every opponent that tried to fight on the inside against him. LaMotta was too strong to be beaten in an infight, you had to box against him.

sonnyboyx2
01-26-2010, 02:49 PM
[QUOTE=TheGreatA;7353507]You probably mean Dick Turpin, Randy's brother. Cerdan was strong but not stronger than LaMotta. Why do you think LaMotta was able to wrestle Cerdan to the floor? He was bullying Cerdan with his strength, just like he did every opponent that tried to fight on the inside against him. LaMotta was too strong to be beaten in an infight, you had to box against him.[/QUOTE



http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=26605

LaMotta was bullying Cerdan because Cerdan was injured... LaMotta was a 5/1 dog for the return fight

TheGreatA
01-26-2010, 03:01 PM
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=26605

LaMotta was bullying Cerdan because Cerdan was injured... LaMotta was a 5/1 dog for the return fight

Was Cerdan injured in the first couple of minutes of the fight? Because LaMotta was throwing him around the ring and treating him with no respect. Cerdan did injure himself, because he couldn't handle LaMotta's strength.

Cerdan by the way injured himself in every other fighter, including his fight against Holman Williams, but only in the LaMotta fight did his injury bother him. Boxers came into fights with injuries all the time then but only made excuses in losing.

Seems like the fight is mistakenly referred to as Marcel Cerdan fighting Randy Turpin. It was actually Dick Turpin, Randy's older brother, who was fighting Cerdan. Dick Turpin was a good British/European-level fighter but not as good as his brother.

TheGreatA
01-26-2010, 03:11 PM
LaMotta being a 5 to 1 underdog against Cerdan in a rematch is another exaggeration on your part. Even in the first fight the odds were only 5 to 8 in favour of Cerdan. Surely they odds wouldn't be that much greater in a return bout considering that LaMotta had dominated and stopped the smaller Cerdan.

Newspapers also reported that boxing experts were evenly divided on who was going to win.

TheGreatA
01-26-2010, 03:13 PM
According to this article the betting odds for a rematch favour LaMotta:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XJ8TAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HAAEAAAAIBAJ&dq=cerdan%20lamotta%20odds&pg=1159%2C4547407

sonnyboyx2
01-26-2010, 10:44 PM
LaMotta being a 5 to 1 underdog against Cerdan in a rematch is another exaggeration on your part. Even in the first fight the odds were only 5 to 8 in favour of Cerdan. Surely they odds wouldn't be that much greater in a return bout considering that LaMotta had dominated and stopped the smaller Cerdan.

Newspapers also reported that boxing experts were evenly divided on who was going to win.

its not an exageration on my part... i was told by an old friend that those was the odds.. you have proved him incorrect... are you saying that in your opinion LaMotta would have beaten Cerdan in their fight regardless of Cerdan injuring his shoulder in the opening minute?

it also says in your article there was very few clinches, which is not how you are trying to describe the fight...

TheGreatA
01-26-2010, 11:29 PM
its not an exageration on my part... i was told by an old friend that those was the odds.. you have proved him incorrect... are you saying that in your opinion LaMotta would have beaten Cerdan in their fight regardless of Cerdan injuring his shoulder in the opening minute?

it also says in your article there was very few clinches, which is not how you are trying to describe the fight...

I believe LaMotta was in peak shape and too motivated for Cerdan to beat in that fight. LaMotta was very inconsistent but against Cerdan he was given a title shot he had tried to get for the past 7 years, so much that he actually took a dive against Billy Fox in order to get a chance. Cerdan on the other hand was getting older and was smaller.

I don't claim that there were many clinches, but LaMotta forced Cerdan to fight mostly in close, where LaMotta had the advantage over just about every middleweight who ever fought except perhaps Dick Tiger.

Notice that LaMotta is battering Cerdan even while Marcel is not injured, so who is to say he couldn't have continued doing that for the next 15 rounds even if Cerdan hadn't injured his shoulder? And even if you think Cerdan would have beaten LaMotta, LaMotta certainly seemed to be the stronger of the two.

sonnyboyx2
01-26-2010, 11:42 PM
i am of the opinion that Cerdan would have won there fight... for a guy with only his right hand to use he put up a gallant performance, Cerdan was a brutal left-hooker and watching that footage that you posted (i also have this footage) LaMotta is wide-open for the big left hooks of Cerdan, during that fight Cerdan drives LaMotta round the ring with only the use of his right hand and as the commentator says, "LaMotta is aware that Cerdan cannot use his left-hand".. but Jake could not take advantage of it.

antk
01-27-2010, 07:06 AM
Hi Silencer,I agree with you. Both fighters were not one punch ko guys but had terrific staying powers,stamina and ability to absorb a punch. Tiger might have landed more punches to edge a split decision.

Silencers
01-27-2010, 07:24 AM
Hi Silencer,I agree with you. Both fighters were not one punch ko guys but had terrific staying powers,stamina and ability to absorb a punch. Tiger might have landed more punches to edge a split decision.

Yeah, would've been a great fight. :fing02: