....So much for the Brits being pissed at him for supporting us in Iraq. I guess this means that they think he did the right thing after all. :)

....So much for the Brits being pissed at him for supporting us in Iraq. I guess this means that they think he did the right thing after all. :)

His party lost 100 seats in parliament and the only reason he was voted back in is because there was no good alternative to vote for. He is so hated that people expect him to resign halfway through his term. He admitted that the war cost him a lot of support.

By the way, in Britain people vote for the party, not the man, so a vote for his party was not an endorsement of him. A lot of people in his party opposed the war, by the way.

His party lost 100 seats in parliament and the only reason he was voted back in is because there was no good alternative to vote for. He is so hated that people expect him to resign halfway through his term. He admitted that the war cost him a lot of support.

By the way, in Britain people vote for the party, not the man, so a vote for his party was not an endorsement of him. A lot of people in his party opposed the war, by the way.


...Yeah, I understand how the voting for the party thing goes but it still put Blair back in power. I guess he has his mandate to follow us into Iran here shortly. ha ha ha ha

...Yeah, I understand how the voting for the party thing goes but it still put Blair back in power. I guess he has his mandate to follow us into Iran here shortly. ha ha ha ha

I don't think he'd have the support to send his soldiers out to fight another war. Though I don't think the U.S. is going to invade Iran either...there are other less messy ways of toppling that regime.

I don't think he'd have the support to send his soldiers out to fight another war. Though I don't think the U.S. is going to invade Iran either...there are other less messy ways of toppling that regime.


.....About an invasion. Several months ago I would have disagreed with you, but I think you may be right at this point in time.

we had no chouice lbalir wont be PM for long anyway Gordon brown will take over within 18 months.

Me i didnt vote.

abastaing was mmy vote.

there were no choices, a liar or an incompetent.


as I said beofre
voting for politicians is a bit like being asked if you prefer being pissed or **** on and they determine from what height.

its a no win situation.

Werent the Brittons just calling us morons for reelecting a man who took us into a supposedly unjust war? Pretty funny if you ask me.

we had no chouice lbalir wont be PM for long anyway Gordon brown will take over within 18 months.

Me i didnt vote.

abastaing was mmy vote.

there were no choices, a liar or an incompetent.


as I said beofre
voting for politicians is a bit like being asked if you prefer being pissed or **** on and they determine from what height.

its a no win situation.

That's the situation we have in Canada right now. The ruling party has been around for 10 years cause there's not good alternative. The conservative party went bust and the socialists are too unrealistic to ever govern at the federal level. So we're stuck with our centrist Liberals.

Recently they were caught in a huge money laundering scandal that's put a bunch of the big names to shame. But you know what? They're still ahead in the polls at the point. I mean, if you vote, you are going to vote for an *******, no matter who you vote for.

.....About an invasion. Several months ago I would have disagreed with you, but I think you may be right at this point in time.

Yeah, the thing is that there are enough reformers and anti-government groups in Iran right now. You give it time and that regime will fall on its own, though I'm sure the CIA will help things along a bit :cool: .

totally agree man.

it sux if you ask me, I couldnt vote Tory cos they would **** up the economy and thats gonna effect me personally. They simply were not ready for government, they may be next time tho.

I couldnt vote lib dem its a wasted vote especially where i live.

so that leaves Labour, whom I owuldnt have a problem with if that ****head of a lying c*** of a wasnt in charge.

so i abstained.


at least he will not be with us in 2 years tops, poor US (and the rest of the frikken world) is stuck with Bush for another whole 4 years!

Werent the Brittons just calling us morons for reelecting a man who took us into a supposedly unjust war? Pretty funny if you ask me.

Yeah. World works in mysterious ways. Some people are just for and against terrorism I suppose.

Yeah. World works in mysterious ways. Some people are just for and against terrorism I suppose.

So a vote against Bush or Blair is a vote for terrorism?

So a vote against Bush or Blair is a vote for terrorism?

not necessarily. If you were to vote otherwise....(with the exception of kerry).....then yes. You can say that. Peace talks will achieve very little, if any resolve in this issue.

...Yeah, I understand how the voting for the party thing goes but it still put Blair back in power. I guess he has his mandate to follow us into Iran here shortly. ha ha ha ha


HAhahahahhaaha!!!!!!!!

not necessarily. If you were to vote otherwise....(with the exception of kerry).....then yes. You can say that. Peace talks will achieve very little, if any resolve in this issue.

Well, I agree that peace talks probably won't do much at this point. I think this has been a runaway train for a while. I don't think the U.S. gov't has been helping matters all that much with some of its actions...but I don't think that there's any chance it would have acted any other way.

I'm a fatalist when it comes to big picture issues like this. I think that people can change things in their own lives, but you can't do **** about how world events are going to play out.

Anyway, I just wanted to keep this discussion going. No offence meant.

Anyway, I just wanted to keep this discussion going. No offence meant.

I dont take offense to anything anyone says.

The only time I did, was when Tarman_the_rippuh....or "TheFoulPole" started a thread about me when I was new....claiming I was some "Sweet dick Willy" guy. That pissed me off really bad.

I dont take offense to anything anyone says.

The only time I did, was when Tarman_the_rippuh....or "TheFoulPole" started a thread about me when I was new....claiming I was some "Sweet dick Willy" guy. That pissed me off really bad.

hahaha I kind of remember that...yes, I can see why that would have pissed you off. I was here when he was rampaging through the lounge. Thing is that you guys couldn't have been more different, as far as I remember.

Anyway, I'm the same way, I'll argue with people here but I don't take it personally.

Yeah, the thing is that there are enough reformers and anti-government groups in Iran right now. You give it time and that regime will fall on its own, though I'm sure the CIA will help things along a bit :cool: .

I hope your right, but I think this has been the theory for decades and nothings happened.
Last I heard, Iran should have enriched enough uranium and be capable of building a nuclear bomb in a few months.
If the US doesn't prevent this from happening like Bush said it would, than Israel will prevent it like they did to Iraq in the 80's.
Hopefully your theory comes to fruition this time and the Iranians take care of this on their own.

bush= *******
blair= *******
howard= *******
osama bin laden= *******
and i am sure there are many others.

i take it that it is not compulsory to vote in England? It was in Australia- i just crossed the paper off cause they are all a bunch of asslickers! From reading the posts it sounds like England have a similar problem to Australia- there doesn't seem to be enough strong competition in politics. We have to either vote for dickhead johnny howard or we have to take the idiot labour party- either way we are stuffed!

Yeah, alot of people say we meddle too much in the middle east. If we didnt. Israel would have kicked the **** out of its neighbors years ago.

Yeah, alot of people say we meddle too much in the middle east. If we didnt. Israel would have kicked the **** out of its neighbors years ago.


....Exactly, if we took the gloves off of the Israeli's they would have laid waste to the entire Middle East. I wish we would turn em loose to be honest. I was kind of hoping that they would get pissed during the gulf war and launch a nuke or two towards Iraq. They showed great restraint when the scuds were launched at them. If I were the Israeli's I would have claimed that the scuds were laced with chemical weapons and it was an attempt to "gas" the Jews and then nobody in their right mind would have *****ed when they nuked Iraq. If only I was running the show at that time. :)

....Exactly, if we took the gloves off of the Israeli's they would have laid waste to the entire Middle East. I wish we would turn em loose to be honest. I was kind of hoping that they would get pissed during the gulf war and launch a nuke or two towards Iraq. They showed great restraint when the scuds were launched at them. If I were the Israeli's I would have claimed that the scuds were laced with chemical weapons and it was an attempt to "gas" the Jews and then nobody in their right mind would have *****ed when they nuked Iraq. If only I was running the show at that time. :)

i deeply disagree . USA are protecting israel , and that is ok in my book , BUT you have to understand that palestinians are victims too .

being a victim doesnt allow terrorism , because i think HAMAS suicide bombers are terrorists no matter how much they suffered ,if you think youre at war then target the soldiers for god sake .

USA are the only country on earth with the military and economical power to force that place of the world into making peace , and the new bush admnisitration understands it , as they support ariel sharon ' s new political vision , which could lead to peace.

as for nuking irak , common pdbs , a man as educated and well spoken as you cant just be as manichean , living in a world were french and irakis are evil and they should be nuked , because some limited right wind politicians say so .(although i could understand for some french people ;)

poor irakis were forced into TWO wars in a row , and the war against iran was financed by your country an meine to stop iran extremist chiite leaders . we used saddam and the iraki people to protect us and now you say those childrens , dying from starvation thx to the embargo should be nuked ? common!

in what i think we agree , is that western countries should stick together because it s obvious that a part of humanity sees us as evil and wants us to die or surrender , and we have to defend ourselves from these maniacs.

i deeply disagree . USA are protecting israel , and that is ok in my book , BUT you have to understand that palestinians are victims too .

being a victim doesnt allow terrorism , because i think HAMAS suicide bombers are terrorists no matter how much they suffered ,if you think youre at war then target the soldiers for god sake .

USA are the only country on earth with the military and economical power to force that place of the world into making peace , and the new bush admnisitration understands it , as they support ariel sharon ' s new political vision , which could lead to peace.

as for nuking irak , common pdbs , a man as educated and well spoken as you cant just be as manichean , living in a world were french and irakis are evil and they should be nuked , because some limited right wind politicians say so .(although i could understand for some french people ;)

poor irakis were forced into TWO wars in a row , and the war against iran was financed by your country an meine to stop iran extremist chiite leaders . we used saddam and the iraki people to protect us and now you say those childrens , dying from starvation thx to the embargo should be nuked ? common!

in what i think we agree , is that western countries should stick together because it s obvious that a part of humanity sees us as evil and wants us to die or surrender , and we have to defend ourselves from these maniacs.


....Hey bro, you should know by now that I get carried away sometimes. I don't want anyone to really be nuked. I just get sick of all the trash in the Middle East that needs cleaning.

....Hey bro, you should know by now that I get carried away sometimes. I don't want anyone to really be nuked. I just get sick of all the trash in the Middle East that needs cleaning.


common , dont tell me you wouldnt nuke some frenchmen if you could .

common , dont tell me you wouldnt nuke some frenchmen if you could .

....Nah man, I think of the French differently because of you. In fact, when was the last time you saw me bash the French? I respect you too much to talk trash on your country and your the only French guy on here. I'm not about to attack your country when your such a good sport. Besides, some of the heat the French get is probably unwarranted.

....Nah man, I think of the French differently because of you. In fact, when was the last time you saw me bash the French? I respect you too much to talk trash on your country and your the only French guy on here. I'm not about to attack your country when your such a good sport. Besides, some of the heat the French get is probably unwarranted.


thx ,you know my opinion of you is high too. i appreciate the fact that you do not bash my country , and if i changed your opinion on french people , well i am honored , sincerely .

i could say you changed my opinion on americans , but i honestly have always been a big fan of USA , i think it s a fantastic country and maybe the frendliest people on earth (and i ve been around the world). plus i went to an american university ,and i received good education there , so i think bashing with no reasons a country that accepted me and gave me education would be stupid.

Well, personally I like Blair. He's loyal to countrymen and allies, and has the guts enough to be so publicly, and completely. England could do far worse than him. And because of Blair, if England were to need men-at-arms again like she did during the early years of WWII, I'd be one of the first "Eagle Squadron" members catching a boat across the pond to return the loyalty he showed my country. The average citizen of England may not realize how firmly Blair cemented the bond between our countries until (God forbid) something like 9/11/01 happens to her people and they need our help and cooperation with no questions asked just like we did. At that point, I think the British public will be on their hands and knees offering to kiss Tony's ass.

The Brits are at fault for the problems with Isrel and Palastine.
But at the time that they set up the Jewish state, it seemed like the right thing.
They are generaly good people, like many Americans. I have no beef with them.
But as an American I can't point a finger without pointing three fingers at myself and one thumb up to baby jesus in heaven.

"Americans have been taught that their nation is civilized and humane. But, too often, U.S. actions have been uncivilized and inhumane." - Zinn

The Brits are at fault for the problems with Isrel and Palastine.
But at the time that they set up the Jewish state, it seemed like the right thing.
They are generaly good people, like many Americans. I have no beef with them.
But as an American I can't point a finger without pointing three fingers at myself and one thumb up to baby jesus in heaven.

"Americans have been taught that their nation is civilized and humane. But, too often, U.S. actions have been uncivilized and inhumane." - Zinn


Well said.

I feel like Tyson will somehow get blamed for even this.

Yeah. World works in mysterious ways. Some people are just for and against terrorism I suppose.

what like the US was for Noraid and all the paddys day parades under the Clinton administration. Yes correct the US helped fund the IRA for many years, so that wasnt teorrorism then?


Come on man open you eyes it aint that simple and you poeple have short memories.

....So much for the Brits being pissed at him for supporting us in Iraq. I guess this means that they think he did the right thing after all. :)

GUESS BLAIR AND BUSH HAVE EVEN MORE IN COMMON...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1604436,00.html

May 09, 2005

I was tortured, says ricin plotter
By Reda Hassaine in Algiers and Sean O’Neill

Meguerba: told his family he had been repeatedly abused

AN INFORMANT who revealed an al-Qaeda plot to make and use deadly ricin poison in Britain is claiming that he was tortured before admitting his role in the conspiracy.
Mohammed Meguerba, 37, who trained in terrorist camps in Afghanistan, was held in a secret detention centre for 17 months by the Algerian intelligence service (DRS). His relatives have told The Times they were unaware he had been held from December 2002 until he was moved to Sakardji prison in Algiers last year.

When they visited him there, Mr Meguerba weighed 5st 7lb (35kg) and told his family he had been repeatedly abused. “We did not know where he was for such a long time and when we finally saw him he told us that he had been badly tortured,” one relative said.

The allegation that Mr Meguerba was tortured will bolster the asylum claims of five Algerians cleared of involvement in the ricin plot. Since their acquittals, the men have made fresh applications to remain in Britain. The Algerians, and a Libyan man, were remanded into immigration detention at the end of the Old Bailey case last month but have since been freed on bail. They are not subject to terrorist control orders.

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office has been in talks with Algeria about drawing up an agreement under which Algerian citizens could be returned there from Britain. But lawyers say that in the light of Mr Meguerba’s claims it will be impossible to deport any of the ricin defendants despite them being cleared.

After his al-Qaeda training, Mr Meguerba arrived in London in March 2002 and went to Finsbury Park mosque. He began to work with Kamel Bourgass to try to make crude poisons. In September 2002 Mr Meguerba was arrested in London during an operation into suspected terrorist fundraising. Released on bail he fled Britain and returned to Algeria, where he was arrested.

His claims of torture have been supported by an Algerian man, now living in Britain, who was detained in Algiers in January 2003 and placed by his interrogators in a room with Mr Meguerba. The man has stated that Mr Meguerba’s face was bruised, cut and swollen.

Appearing in an Algiers court earlier this month, charged with membership of a terrorist organisation, Mr Meguerba appeared frail, and with many of his teeth missing.

The allegations of torture in Mr Meguerba’s case illustrate the dilemma facing Britain and other Western democracies in fighting the war on terrorism. His “confession”, presented as 27 pages of memos written by DRS agents, led Scotland Yard to the flat in Wood Green, North London, where Bourgass was trying to make ricin and other poisons.

Bourgass, 32, an illegal immigrant, was convicted of the poison plot and is also serving life for the murder of Detective Constable Stephen Oake in Manchester in January 2003.

The Meguerba memos were not relied on by the prosecution in the ricin trial because they could have raised allegations of torture. One source close to the case said: “The Government has introduced the Human Rights Act but finds itself relying on regimes with appalling human rights records for information.” Algerian secret services denied that Mr Meguerba had been abused. Mr Meguerba remains in custody and the case against him, which contains no reference to the British ricin plot, has been adjourned indefinitely.