I have to confess I've only ever seen two of Toney's fights over here - the Holyfield one and last Saturday's.

Now, while I enjoyed them both and admired Toney immensely, I couldn't shake a slight nagging feeling that there's a large difference between the way Toney is selling himself and the product he's actually selling.

Toney's way above the tedium of fighters like Hopkins, but he's still a fighter who would appeal more to followers of the sport rather than a mainstream audience. Granted, that chin of his will give some thrills to a depleted public audience hooked on the visceral aspect of the sport, but Toney is more of a tactician. His style of fighting is almost the definition of "negative", as his offense is not the driving factor in his bouts, but an experienced, intelligent countering. Despite the red welts on Ruiz's side, Toney was largely content to be held when Ruiz did grab, and allow the referee to do his work in separating them. Despite his verbosity he's very much a thinking man's fighter, a professor of the science behind it rather than an out-and-out brawler.

Which is why I always feel slightly let down by a Toney fight. His style is fascinating - more impressive than a straightfoward puncher's, certainly - but Toney always sells himself as a jive-talking psychotic. To see him step between the ropes and emerge as a professional who favours ring generalship over seeking a first-round KO always feels like you're being sold short... but only because Toney never fulfills his own self-imposed remit.

Woah I think this is the most thoughtfull intelligent post youve done. Good K keep it up.

Thats a real interesting point. Toney is a big talker but in the ring he is the quite man...

Very good editorial :birthday:

The serious side of Anorak.

Yeah, well, people like to say I don't do serious. I thought I'd do it as a special occasion, y'know... :D

That's a good analysis.

But I think Toney is thinking even more than you realize. His whole image is fake, it is clever marketing by himself.

Ali was also a defensive fighter who talked alot of ****. I think that they are comprable in a lot of ways like that. Ali didn't really hate Frazier, he just wanted to sell tickets, that's the same thing Toney is doing.

You can't sell a fight by saying "I am going to outclass this fighter and win a unanimous desicion."

Toney knows that. He definitly won't knock out Vitali or Bryd but I think he could beat them.

He "might" be able to KO Rhahman though.

Good point... though Ali is my favourite boxer I don't actually think he has that much conventional intelligence... it's more instinctive. Sure, he was quick and funny, but a lot of it was pre-scripted. And believe me, I hate to detract from Ali, I love the guy.

But I get the feeling there's more substance to James.

Boxing is all about hitting and not getting hit. If you feel boxers are selling you short for not attempting first round knockouts every time they step in the ring, you're better off watching a fight between two drunks at your local bar. Sweet science is not only about the offensive the game. What he's selling is dominance over the other fighter regardless of his predictions of a knockout every time he steps foot in the ring. No one has a 100% KO ratio but his 43 KO speaks for itself. If you've only seen 2 fights of him, you're far from any position to criticize.

Toney's style of fighting is exciting to me I think I have him listed as my second most exciting fighter to watch after GAtti, in the most exciting fighters thread.

Boxing is all about hitting and not getting hit. If you feel boxers are selling you short for not attempting first round knockouts every time they step in the ring, you're better off watching a fight between two drunks at your local bar. Sweet science is not only about the offensive the game. What he's selling is dominance over the other fighter regardless of his predictions of a knockout every time he steps foot in the ring. No one has a 100% KO ratio but his 43 KO speaks for itself. If you've only seen 2 fights of him, you're far from any position to criticize.

:hijacked:

There's always one, isn't there? :rolleyes:

Have you even READ or UNDERSTOOD the post? Please - I was trying to have just ONE small thread without a smack-talking moron who doesn't get it chipping in and making it a slanging match. Just go away - and like I said in Karma, grow a brain. Thanks.

:hijacked:

There's always one, isn't there? :rolleyes:

Have you even READ or UNDERSTOOD the post? Please - I was trying to have just ONE small thread without a smack-talking moron who doesn't get it chipping in and making it a slanging match. Just go away - and like I said in Karma, grow a brain. Thanks.


LOL I wasn't smalk talking but if you took it that way, then fine. I gotta tell you Anorak, you really hurt my feelings with your bad karma lol. Damn how old are you?

I have to confess I've only ever seen two of Toney's fights over here - the Holyfield one and last Saturday's.

Now, while I enjoyed them both and admired Toney immensely, I couldn't shake a slight nagging feeling that there's a large difference between the way Toney is selling himself and the product he's actually selling.

Toney's way above the tedium of fighters like Hopkins, but he's still a fighter who would appeal more to followers of the sport rather than a mainstream audience. Granted, that chin of his will give some thrills to a depleted public audience hooked on the visceral aspect of the sport, but Toney is more of a tactician. His style of fighting is almost the definition of "negative", as his offense is not the driving factor in his bouts, but an experienced, intelligent countering. Despite the red welts on Ruiz's side, Toney was largely content to be held when Ruiz did grab, and allow the referee to do his work in separating them. Despite his verbosity he's very much a thinking man's fighter, a professor of the science behind it rather than an out-and-out brawler.

Which is why I always feel slightly let down by a Toney fight. His style is fascinating - more impressive than a straightfoward puncher's, certainly - but Toney always sells himself as a jive-talking psychotic. To see him step between the ropes and emerge as a professional who favours ring generalship over seeking a first-round KO always feels like you're being sold short... but only because Toney never fulfills his own self-imposed remit.
I agree with allot of points raised. Something i`ve noticed about Toney though. He is a PERFECT counter puncher. This has its advantages and dis - advantages. First off he fights to the level of opponent. In the Jirov fight Jirov was pressing him on the rops which gave Toney chances to operate. When Jirov pressed him in the last round, Jirov ended up on the deck!
Evander Holydfield kept coming forward all night and got stopped, Toney looked great doing so. Ruiz, although fighting his best aggressive fight in years was still at times weighting on Toney. This is why the fight went the distance. Toney tends to love pressure and fights to the level of pressure his opponent puts him under. If an opponent were to box and move and try to pile up points ( i.e Byrd ) then Toney may not look too great!

toney is beast he owned ruiz to the point were he was trippin over his goofy self.

Anorak,
You've also got to take into account that Toney was FAR from being in great shape for this fight. It came together very much at the last minute & he wet from being in a completely idle state for months following his injurous bout with Booker back in September, to climbing inside the ropes to contest for a heavyweight title in just a little over four weeks. Most of today's fighters wouldn't even THINK of doing such a thing.
Had Toney been in the kind of shape that he was in for the Holyfield fight on Saturday night against Ruiz, I think he'd have stopped him late in the contest. But by only having enough time to bring about 60% into the fight, he just didn't have enough in the tank to "go for it" down the stretch.

LOL I wasn't smalk talking but if you took it that way, then fine. I gotta tell you Anorak, you really hurt my feelings with your bad karma lol. Damn how old are you?How old am I? Old enough to use the same forum facilities that everybody else uses. But great comeback. Really.

The basic point is, I was raising a point for discussion, not "criticising Toney". The fact that you've taken it as the latter and adopted a personal attacking motion towards me instead of just objectively discussing it is what I was getting at. The fact that you see the thread as a "criticism" of James shows you don't really get it.

How old am I? Old enough to use the same forum facilities that everybody else uses. But great comeback. Really.

The basic point is, I was raising a point for discussion, not "criticising Toney". The fact that you've taken it as the latter and adopted a personal attacking motion towards me instead of just objectively discussing it is what I was getting at. The fact that you see the thread as a "criticism" of James shows you don't really get it.

Your as sensitive as my last *****. Enough flaming, I'm sick of it.

Me too. No need. Peace.


Okay, so a discussion on thread....

i read the post and look at the user and was suprised. some good points, and true to an extent, but as toney says its about winning by any means neccessary. and being that hes a middleweight stepping in with guys naturally heavier than him, that alone should bring some intrigue and interst into his fights

What do you expect Anorak, people love bad guys and Toney is doing ecatly what he is supposed to, to advertise himself and boxing. Being fighter myself(amateur) I spend a lot of time with different professionals and when I asked once if they really do hate each other they replied that fighters rarely really hate on other fighters(even though it happens), but just advertise themselve by selling their bravado. As i said again people love to watch bad guys, some people like to see them win, some people like to see them ktfo'ed and Toney as a smart guy and good businessman(and you gotta be a good businessman these days to be succesful in a pugilism)selling himself to wide audiences.
As far as you are saying that he slightly disappoints you when using his head as a thinking instrument instead of third glove, this is Toney and wide audience dont really watch boxing to see actual boxing, these people want to see a character and establish a role model for themselves so for most ofthe people pre fight bravado and fighters image is more important that how he actually beats his opponents.

i read the post and look at the user and was suprised. some good points, and true to an extent, but as toney says its about winning by any means neccessary. and being that hes a middleweight stepping in with guys naturally heavier than him, that alone should bring some intrigue and interst into his fightsI still maintain that only around 10% of my posts are jokey ones, but the fact that you say this means that it's been remembered as more. However, I'm flattered by your comment, and agree with your points.

What do you expect Anorak, people love bad guys and Toney is doing ecatly what he is supposed to, to advertise himself and boxing. Being fighter myself(amateur) I spend a lot of time with different professionals and when I asked once if they really do hate each other they replied that fighters rarely really hate on other fighters(even though it happens), but just advertise themselve by selling their bravado. As i said again people love to watch bad guys, some people like to see them win, some people like to see them ktfo'ed and Toney as a smart guy and good businessman(and you gotta be a good businessman these days to be succesful in a pugilism)selling himself to wide audiences.
As far as you are saying that he slightly disappoints you when using his head as a thinking instrument instead of third glove, this is Toney and wide audience dont really watch boxing to see actual boxing, these people want to see a character and establish a role model for themselves so for most ofthe people pre fight bravado and fighters image is more important that how he actually beats his opponents.

To be honest, I wasn't really drawing any conclusion, I was more kind of thinking aloud. In the press conferences he entertains me, in the fights he entertains me... but the two don't work together somehow. Should he present himself more calmly in press conferences and interviews to reflect his skill? I hope not, that press conference was better than most fights.

This is a great post, Toney's always talks likes he is going to KO someone, when i don't think he even cares, he justs wants to win. He is getting old and needs to make some money, so he is selling himself. I still like the way he fights, i also like Tarver, i guess i am a fan of the counter punching **** talkers. Once again great opening post.

This is a great post, Toney's always talks likes he is going to KO someone, when i don't think he even cares, he justs wants to win. He is getting old and needs to make some money, so he is selling himself. I still like the way he fights, i also like Tarver, i guess i am a fan of the counter punching **** talkers. Once again great opening post.Thanks for that, Great1, appreciate it. :)


Do you want a fight, btw? I reckon I could take you...

Thanks for that, Great1, appreciate it. :)


Do you want a fight, btw? I reckon I could take you...

anytime, are you pretty good?

I got a 4-4-2 record now. (All girls).

No, I'm just being stupid. It's seeing those biceps of yours in that pic - they're huge, man!

I got a 4-4-2 record now. (All girls).

No, I'm just being stupid. It's seeing those biceps of yours in that pic - they're huge, man!
you're scaring us Anorak, first the bra on Toney, now you analyze the Great1's biceps, chill out on the gayness (not that there's anything wrong with that :) heck Joe Goossen and Jay Nady are both super-gay and they've done a lot for the sport)

Jay Nady's gay? What? No way! Seriously?

I just can't help but be struck by Great1 (not in a gay way :) )- he looks as hard as ****, doesn't he?

toney sells himself as a great fighter which he is. Always thinking, always watching, always defending, always catching, parrying , ducking slipping, rolling with and riding the punches off, and yet still when he counters he does it with power and while not a 1 punch artist his power is very accurate and increases as the fight does, and the late KO is always most satisfying which toney does best.

James toney talks a good game and walks it also.

Far more entertaining than the likes of hopkins IMO

Toeny DOES whoop a$$, he is no byrd in that respect, yet he is like Byrd skill wise .

I have to confess I've only ever seen two of Toney's fights over here - the Holyfield one and last Saturday's.

Now, while I enjoyed them both and admired Toney immensely, I couldn't shake a slight nagging feeling that there's a large difference between the way Toney is selling himself and the product he's actually selling.

Toney's way above the tedium of fighters like Hopkins, but he's still a fighter who would appeal more to followers of the sport rather than a mainstream audience. Granted, that chin of his will give some thrills to a depleted public audience hooked on the visceral aspect of the sport, but Toney is more of a tactician. His style of fighting is almost the definition of "negative", as his offense is not the driving factor in his bouts, but an experienced, intelligent countering. Despite the red welts on Ruiz's side, Toney was largely content to be held when Ruiz did grab, and allow the referee to do his work in separating them. Despite his verbosity he's very much a thinking man's fighter, a professor of the science behind it rather than an out-and-out brawler.

Which is why I always feel slightly let down by a Toney fight. His style is fascinating - more impressive than a straightfoward puncher's, certainly - but Toney always sells himself as a jive-talking psychotic. To see him step between the ropes and emerge as a professional who favours ring generalship over seeking a first-round KO always feels like you're being sold short... but only because Toney never fulfills his own self-imposed remit.

"Slight?"

He knows he's not the Greatest but probably does feel he'll find a way to beat most guys. He's got an ego out of this world and rarely loses when he's prepared properly.

"Slight?"

He knows he's not the Greatest but probably does feel he'll find a way to beat most guys. He's got an ego out of this world and rarely loses when he's prepared properly.
I definitely look forward to seeing more.

Bumped to ask the question - has the move up to heavyweight affected Toney's performance?

I'd never seen a Toney fight outside the division, but finally got to see the blistering Jirov fight (his finest?)

toney is looking to fight on sept 24, any idea who he will be fighting?

Toney sux ass and hes all talk...
If he ever got in the ring with a Klitschko or any other power puncher they would have to carry his fat ass out on a stretcher...

Toney sux ass and hes all talk...
If he ever got in the ring with a Klitschko or any other power puncher they would have to carry his fat ass out on a stretcher...And this is relevant to the thread because...??

Having seen Toney's most recent bout at heavy I was quite pleased to see that many of the issues addressed in this thread could be overturned.

Let's hope that also happens against Rahman.

(I noticed that I said I'd only seen two Toney fights when I'd started this one... I've done research since then).

Toney talks trash to sell himself, and the fight.

When he climbs into the ring, he takes care of business.

He's not going to one punch KO a Heavyweight, and anyone who knows him and has watched him his whole career knows that.

But beating down Evander Holyfield was badass, and then taking apart Guinn to the point where he should have been embarassed is equally impressive.

He talks all that game, and gets in the ring and makes a fool of his opponent.

He beat on Ruiz like he stole something, all with love handles and his ass crack hanging out.

If he's getting in there and making his opponent look foolish with how much his counter punching, inside fighting and defense set him apart, that's more than enough for me.

Especially with what I normally see in a Heavyweight fight now days.

He's not going to one punch KO a Heavyweight, and anyone who knows him and has watched him his whole career knows that.
And where did I say he WAS, Mr. Know-It-All?

Seriously, stick to your "Vitali is 0-2" threads. I've got nothing to say to you, and you clearly don't understand the point I'm making, so...