View Full Version : Did Roy Jones handpick his opponents?


paulsinghnl
01-21-2010, 06:07 PM
i've heard a couple of times that he handpicked his opponents, now i wasnt following boxing back then, but to me it seems that he fought everybody that he could, he was just on a way higher level.

but then, he could've fought Tyson instead of Ruiz too right? this all is getting a little confusing. can someone explain this a little more clearly?

CarlosG815
01-21-2010, 06:59 PM
He was talked about back in the day the same way Floyd is now.

A lot of people loved him, but a lot of enthusiasts thought he was a cherry picker but he did beat a prime Bernard Hopkins.

I was never a RJJ fan so I never watched any of his early fights.

and LMAO I just pictured RJJ in the ring with Tyson. That would be brutally nasty. I would hate to see the things Tyson would do to him.

ИATAS
01-21-2010, 07:02 PM
A lot of people loved him, but a lot of enthusiasts thought he was a cherry picker but he did beat a prime Bernard Hopkins.


Not a prime hopkins, bhop was still very wet behind the ears. ****, even Jones wasn't quite in his prime yet. But Jones did beat a prime James Toney though or very close to it version.

As far as Tyson, there was a small window of opportunity for that fight to happen, and honestly, looking back now, he may have been able to win cuz tyson was well past it. Obviously Jones wasn't trying to be THE heavyweight champ of the world or he would have tried to fight Lennox Lewis, which obviously he would have got destroyed. So Ruiz was the easiest possible HW fight for Jones to fight, so in that sense it was a bit of cherrypicking, but it's still a good accomplishment since he was a natural LH.

Other than that, I think he pretty much fought everyone he could have.

CarlosG815
01-21-2010, 07:09 PM
Not a prime hopkins, bhop was still very wet behind the ears. ****, even Jones wasn't quite in his prime yet. But Jones did beat a prime James Toney though or very close to it version.

As far as Tyson, there was a small window of opportunity for that fight to happen, and honestly, looking back now, he may have been able to win cuz tyson was well past it. Obviously Jones wasn't trying to be THE heavyweight champ of the world or he would have tried to fight Lennox Lewis, which obviously he would have got destroyed. So Ruiz was the easiest possible HW fight for Jones to fight, so in that sense it was a bit of cherrypicking, but it's still a good accomplishment since he was a natural LH.

Other than that, I think he pretty much fought everyone he could have.

B Hop was like 27 or 28 when he fought RJJ and had been boxing for most of his life.

And if you think he had a chance against Tyson at any point in Tyson's career, you're straight delusional or you've never watched the man fight. Tyson isn't the same as he was in the 80's, but he's weighed over 200 lb's since he was a teenager. Just the pure intimidation that RJJ would feel looking across the ring would make him wet his pants and he'd be done before the bell rang.

And honestly, RJJ doesn't throw hard enough to hurt Mike if he did have the balls to get inside.
:damnit:

paulsinghnl
01-21-2010, 07:10 PM
Not a prime hopkins, bhop was still very wet behind the ears. ****, even Jones wasn't quite in his prime yet. But Jones did beat a prime James Toney though or very close to it version.

As far as Tyson, there was a small window of opportunity for that fight to happen, and honestly, looking back now, he may have been able to win cuz tyson was well past it. Obviously Jones wasn't trying to be THE heavyweight champ of the world or he would have tried to fight Lennox Lewis, which obviously he would have got destroyed. So Ruiz was the easiest possible HW fight for Jones to fight, so in that sense it was a bit of cherrypicking, but it's still a good accomplishment since he was a natural LH.

Other than that, I think he pretty much fought everyone he could have.


yeah i thought it was something like that..

tyger
01-21-2010, 08:50 PM
No, no, no. Jones in the day loved challenges and risks. He fought all comers til his light heavyweight days after he cleaned out the division. The only fight he didn't take in three divisions was Dariusz because he would have to go to Germany to do it. He beat the highly regarded Hopkins, then moved up to face the top lb4lb Toney. Then he unified the light heavy title one belt at a time. Add to that his jump to heavy, I don't know where people get their facts!

CarlosG815
01-21-2010, 08:58 PM
Didn't he duck Jermain Taylor? And he also ducked Tarver for a while didn't he?

When he finally had to step up and fight Tarver he got beat. I think that was the fight he cried hysterical afterwards.

One more round
01-21-2010, 09:04 PM
It's amusing how everyone on this site loves Roy, but always brings down Floyd, when Roy picked fights and easy opposition more than Floyd ever did.

jazluvr
01-21-2010, 09:07 PM
I doubt he "ducked" either of those guys, but I can't say for sure. But he did fight everybody and took all the risks. He cried after the Tarver fight? i saw the fight, but it was a while ago and i don't even remember the fight, never mind the "crying hysterically." I can't even imagine him doing that.

Got a utbue vid of him bawling?

dd11212
01-21-2010, 09:08 PM
B Hop was like 27 or 28 when he fought RJJ and had been boxing for most of his life.

And if you think he had a chance against Tyson at any point in Tyson's career, you're straight delusional or you've never watched the man fight. Tyson isn't the same as he was in the 80's, but he's weighed over 200 lb's since he was a teenager. Just the pure intimidation that RJJ would feel looking across the ring would make him wet his pants and he'd be done before the bell rang.

And honestly, RJJ doesn't throw hard enough to hurt Mike if he did have the balls to get inside.
:damnit:

tyson said he wouldn't of fought jones at dat point cuz he was too fast

jazluvr
01-21-2010, 09:09 PM
It's amusing how everyone on this site loves Roy, but always brings down Floyd, when Roy picked fights and easy opposition more than Floyd ever did.

Wrong! Roy fought people that beat him more than once. Can you say the same for Floyd??? Roy was no cherry picker. He might have not wanted to fight certain guys, but he did, didn't he?

True Guru
01-21-2010, 09:22 PM
but he did beat a prime Bernard Hopkins.



The version of Bernard Hopkins that lost to Roy Jones Jr was a shadow of the man who would go on to become undisputed Middleweight champion.
A year after losing to Roy he was put on his ass and got a draw against the bum Segundo Mercado...prime Hopkins doesnt get put on his ass by that guy.

But Jones did beat a prime James Toney though or very close to it version.

James Toney was a walking corpse when he fought Roy Jones,He had to lose 48lbs in 6 weeks just to make the SMW limit and then he put on 17lbs in the 24 hrs after the weigh in lol even the HBO crew said they had never seen anything like it.


Other than that, I think he pretty much fought everyone he could have.

He ducked Dariusz M for for ****in years,Roy would never fight him.
Two of the titles he picked up were vacated by Dariusz M LMAO.
Dariusz was undisputed champ yet Roy didnt want to beat the best.
Also his reign at SMW was ****in bogus. after fighting Toney he fought 5 cans and then jumped to the next division.
At 160 he avoided the 5 yr WBO champ Chris Eubank and the other long reigning WBC champ Nigel Benn.


No, no, no. Jones in the day loved challenges and risks.

Put the crack pipe down.


Then he unified the light heavy title one belt at a time. Add to that his jump to heavy, I don't know where people get their facts!

LMAO he unified the division by avoiding the guy who held three of the belts and instead of fighting him he picked up two of his vacated straps.
Roy was always a paper champion in every division he was in,Never a lineal champ.

Marcov
01-22-2010, 01:31 AM
One of the funnier posts I seen in awhile! Toney was the middleweight champion and Jones was the top contender. Toney had no interest in fighting Jones. Sure he had trouble making 160, but that had been on going for years and Jones was the kicker to make him move up. So Jones took on Hopkins for the vacant title. Toney would have trouble making heavyweight if not motivated. It wasn't like he was fighting at lightheavy droping in weight, he made Barkley drop from light heavy(just beat Hearns) then he made Charles Williams drop from lightheavyweight to fight him. I doubt he'd allow either of those fighters use weight loss as an excuse. So Toney wouldn't himself, he was a middleweight moved up and entered the ring ready and a top "pound4pound" fighter, just on that night Jones was the better man. But according to the experts(Ring,KO magazine & Las Vegas odds makers) Toney was the better man going in and Jones took a big chance taking the fight to prove himself.

bojangles1987
01-22-2010, 07:25 AM
He gets that because he cleaned out light heavyweight and when you clean out a division you tend to fight some guys that aren't quite worthy. There are also some missed opportunities, but they were at middleweight and super middleweight where he didn't spend most his career. As far as fighting Ruiz, he wasn't trying to be the actual heavyweight champ.

General Zod
01-22-2010, 10:03 AM
James Toney was a walking corpse when he fought Roy Jones,He had to lose 48lbs in 6 weeks just to make the SMW limit and then he put on 17lbs in the 24 hrs after the weigh in lol even the HBO crew said they had never seen anything like it.

I agree, its interesting how people conveniently leave this out, Toney wanted a rematch at lhw but never got one. Yet when Jones beats Hopkins theres a list of excuses, Hopkins had his chance to avenge his loss but he never took it.

General Zod
01-22-2010, 10:10 AM
One of the funnier posts I seen in awhile! Toney was the middleweight champion and Jones was the top contender. Toney had no interest in fighting Jones. Sure he had trouble making 160, but that had been on going for years and Jones was the kicker to make him move up.
Jones wasnt the top contender for Toneys belt, Hopkins was. Jones was busy fighting at catchweights in the smw divison he would end up being the mandatory for Nigel Benns smw wbc belt. Toney had been openly calling out Jones for years after he moved up to smw. Didnt he risk making the smw limit for one last time to fight Jones? Did he not openly call out for a rematch at lhw?


So Jones took on Hopkins for the vacant title. Toney would have trouble making heavyweight if not motivated. It wasn't like he was fighting at lightheavy droping in weight, he made Barkley drop from light heavy(just beat Hearns) then he made Charles Williams drop from lightheavyweight to fight him.
Barkley was the IBF smw champion when Toney challenged him for his belt, Charles Williams was also his mandatory for his smw belt.


I doubt he'd allow either of those fighters use weight loss as an excuse. So Toney wouldn't himself, he was a middleweight moved up and entered the ring ready and a top "pound4pound" fighter, just on that night Jones was the better man. But according to the experts(Ring,KO magazine & Las Vegas odds makers) Toney was the better man going in and Jones took a big chance taking the fight to prove himself.
It was a known fact that Toneys days at smw were numbered, If you watch the Prefight talks Sugar Ray Leonard speaks about it. Do you think Toney looked his usual self that day?

TheHolyCross
01-22-2010, 10:26 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rAP2JdvnDkY&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rAP2JdvnDkY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

eubank also said he was afraid of roy jones and didn't want to fight him
tyson straight ducked roy.....:nonono:
and toney for someone so weight drained only started fighting with his mouth open in the 7th round on or somethin
and by then jones was fighting with his mouth open too

General Zod
01-22-2010, 11:28 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rAP2JdvnDkY&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rAP2JdvnDkY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

eubank also said he was afraid of roy jones and didn't want to fight him
tyson straight ducked roy.....:nonono:
and [b]toney for someone so weight drained[b] only started fighting with his mouth open in the 7th round on or somethin
and by then jones was fighting with his mouth open too
I find it hard to believe that Collins would turn down a fight witth Jones he had been actively calling him out for years. Also it would of been his first mega payday.

The Hbo commentators also say a lot of things for example if you watch the Jones Ruiz fight, Lampley says that Jones is a fighter that doesnt like taking risks. If you watch the Tarver Jones II fight, Merchant says thats what happens when you avoid punchers.

Toney almost killed himself making weight for that fight, its covered in detail in the book called "The Dark Trade" by Donald McRae. Even the commentators mention that Toney didnt look his usual self in that fight.

TheHolyCross
01-22-2010, 11:52 AM
I find it hard to believe that Collins would turn down a fight witth Jones he had been actively calling him out for years. Also it would of been his first mega payday.

The Hbo commentators also say a lot of things for example if you watch the Jones Ruiz fight, Lampley says that Jones is a fighter that doesnt take risks.
Also if you watch the Tarver Jones II fight, Merchant says thats whah happens when you avoid punchers.

Toney almost killed himself making weight for that fight, its covered in detail in the book called "The Dark Trade" by Donald McRae. Even the commentators mention that Toney didnt look his usual self in that fight.

if you've watched other toney fights you'll notice the commentators are always on about toney's weights


think ricky hatton

True Guru
01-22-2010, 07:53 PM
if you've watched other toney fights you'll notice the commentators are always on about toney's weights


think ricky hatton

James Toney hardly had a training camp for the Jones fight,He starved himself to lose 48lbs in 6 weeks...cmon man,No one is saying thats Roys fault but there is no way in hell Toney was anywhere near his best in that fight.
He was in disgraceful condition and deserved to get his ass handed to him.

True Guru
01-22-2010, 07:59 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rAP2JdvnDkY&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rAP2JdvnDkY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

eubank also said he was afraid of roy jones and didn't want to fight him
tyson straight ducked roy.....:nonono:
and toney for someone so weight drained only started fighting with his mouth open in the 7th round on or somethin
and by then jones was fighting with his mouth open too

Thats absolute bull****,Collins did everything possible to get a fight with Roy but Roy wanted none of it.
Collins stepped in the ring with Mike Mccallum in only his 17th fight and fought Reggie Johnson not long after yet he ducks Roy when hes in the prime of his life coming off victories over Eubank & Benn?

Roy Jones was a paper champion in every division,all his paper straps dont mean **** when he constantly avoided the best and ran to other weight classes.

The_Demon
01-22-2010, 08:00 PM
not compared to a lot of fighters around today

he has the best resume after pacquioa imo

Marcov
01-22-2010, 08:55 PM
Barkley was the IBF smw champion when Toney challenged him for his belt, Charles Williams was also his mandatory for his smw belt.



Yes Barkley held the IBF sm belt thats common knowledge, but what you don't realize that before he defended against Toney, he fought at 178 in a bout against Robert Folley and right before that he fought at 175 for the WBA title against Thomas Hearns. So Barkley had to drop weight to defend that IBF 168lb. belt defense against Toney. Barkley was so weight drained he moved to cruiser/heavyweight right after that.

Yes Prince CharlesWilliams might have been ranked at supermiddleweight for the bout with Toney, but that was so the bout could be made. Williams fought at lightheavy in his previous 37 bouts including 9 title defences at 175. He got a ranking at supermiddle without fighting there first!

But nobody especially James Toney credited the loses due to weight, as they shouldn't Toney's to Jones.

General Zod
01-23-2010, 06:31 AM
He was in disgraceful condition and deserved to get his ass handed to him.
LMAO:rofl::rofl:

General Zod
01-23-2010, 06:36 AM
Thats absolute bull****,Collins did everything possible to get a fight with Roy but Roy wanted none of it.
Collins stepped in the ring with Mike Mccallum in only his 17th fight and fought Reggie Johnson not long after yet he ducks Roy when hes in the prime of his life coming off victories over Eubank & Benn?


In April 2006, when Jones was mulling whether he would fight again, I asked former HBO Sports president Seth Abraham for his thoughts on this enigma wrapped in a riddle.

***8220;His drive was to do things that were of interest to him, but not necessarily to fight the very best middleweights, super middleweights and light heavyweights who were out there,***8221; Abraham responded. ***8220;I think Roy***8217;s legacy in the sport absolutely will suffer because he chose not to do everything he could to make himself as great as he might have been.***8221;

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/6327/boxing-mantle-roy-jones-legacy/

McClellan and Jackson both had belts when Jones was at mw and he never made any attempt to unify with them

General Zod
01-23-2010, 06:38 AM
But nobody especially James Toney credited the loses due to weight, as they shouldn't Toney's to Jones.
Toney has said that he had come to terms with that loss and wanted to have a rematch at lhw. A rematch with Toney would of been more meaningful than fights with the Lou de Vales of the world at LHW.

General Zod
01-23-2010, 06:43 AM
if you've watched other toney fights you'll notice the commentators are always on about toney's weights

think ricky hatton
This works both ways, should Jones beable to use the weight loss excuse for looking like crap in his Tarver Trilogy?
Think Tarver who was back to his more normal self after his fight with Hopkins.

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 06:47 AM
This works both ways, should Jones beable to use the weight loss excuse for looking like crap in his Tarver Trilogy?
Think Tarver who was back to his more normal self after his fight with Hopkins. Think Archie Moore who worked his way up the hw ranking while defending his lhw belts as well

your right, i forgot jones blew up between fights on a regular basis

with muscle, not fat niether...dumb me :nonono:

General Zod
01-23-2010, 06:51 AM
your right, i forgot jones blew up between fights on a regular basis

with muscle, not fat niether...dumb me :nonono:
Tarver lost more muscle than Jones, he was 220 lbs for the Rocky film and had to get down to 175 lbs. Jones was around 200 lbs and had to get down to 175 lbs.
220-185=35 lbs
200-185=15 lbs

I use 185 lbs because come fight night thats what they would both rehydrate back up to.

You cant have it both ways, if Toney cant use the weight drained excuse then neither can Jones.

When Jones and Tarver walked into their training camps they should of naturally lost a lot of thier extra muscle by then as well. They had no reason to continue with their hw weightlifting regimes.

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 07:02 AM
by Greg Logan
Philadelphia promoter Russell Peltz brought Bryant Brannon to the slaughter Friday night at the Theater at Madison Square Garden with tough talk and a harsh assessment of how [Roy] Jones stacks up against the all-time greats. By 2:23 of the second round, Brannon was on the canvas for the third and final time, and Jones was celebrating the sixth successful defense of his IBF super-middleweight title.

It's true that Brannon (16-1, 10 knockouts), despite his No. 1 contender status, lacked experience and brought only crude skills and strength to challenge Jones (33-0, 29 KOs). Jones' curse is that there is no suitable opposition to validate his skills to the satisfaction of boxing's graybeards.

According to Stanley Levin, Jones' attorney, IBF heavyweight champion Michael Moorer, two light-heavyweight champions, Virgil Hill and Henry Maske, and the other three super-middleweight champs, Frankie Liles, Steve Collins and Vincenzo Nardiello, all have said no to Jones recently. IBF middleweight champion Bernard Hopkins last week declined a rematch with Jones.

by jon saraceno
If Michael Moorer wants to answer a real challenge, he'll open the door Roy Jones Jr. continues to knock on.

Moments after lazily dispatching veteran Mike McCallum Friday night via unanimous decision, Jones, the new 175-pound champion, repeated his desire for Moorer to defend his heavyweight crown against him.

there are more, but it's just pretty much repeating itself

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 07:05 AM
http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/6327/boxing-mantle-roy-jones-legacy/

McClellan and Jackson both had belts when Jones was at mw and he never made any attempt to unify with them

he ducked them by moving up in weight for the arguably #1 p4p fighter in the world?

Toney has said that he had come to terms with that loss and wanted to have a rematch at lhw. A rematch with Toney would of been more meaningful than fights with the Lou de Vales of the world at LHW.

why would he fight toney at lightheavy again, toney beat no one and didn't warrant a rematch, instead he fought the #1 top contender griffin and if he hadn't hit montel while he was down he would've fought virgil when hill was the man to beat at lightheavy

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 07:09 AM
Tarver lost more muscle than Jones, he was 220 lbs for the Rocky film and had to get down to 175 lbs. Jones was around 200 lbs and had to get down to 175 lbs.
220-185=35 lbs
200-185=15 lbs

I use 185 lbs because come fight night thats what they would both rehydrate back up to.

You cant have it both ways, if Toney cant use the weight drained excuse then neither can Jones.

When Jones and Tarver walked into their training camps they should of naturally lost a lot of thier extra muscle by then as well. They had no reason to continue with their hw weightlifting regimes.

jones came down from heavyweight without a conditioning coach, he did it in his own accord, in his own way, he just run alot and stopped lifting
he ****ed up

and what does tarver coming down for the hopkin fight have to do with jones or the discussion at hand?

General Zod
01-23-2010, 07:13 AM
by Greg Logan

by jon saraceno

there are more, but it's just pretty much repeating itself
Hopkins I believe, but not Collins that Jones fight would of been his first mega payday. He was willing to face McCallum,Benn*2 and Eubanks*2 but his going to duck Jones. You are going to have to read up on Steve Collins take on what happened as well.

General Zod
01-23-2010, 07:17 AM
jones came down from heavyweight without a conditioning coach, he did it in his own accord, in his own way, he just run alot and stopped lifting
he ****ed up

and what does tarver coming down for the hopkin fight have to do with jones or the discussion at hand?
You got a link for that? I find it strange that he would pay Mackie to help him get to hw but not use his help to get him down to lhw.

You keep saying think Hatton when I bring up the Toney being weight drained, so im using the same arguement for a fighter who was in a similar positon to Jones.

General Zod
01-23-2010, 07:24 AM
he ducked them by moving up in weight for the arguably #1 p4p fighter in the world?

A win over McClellan and Jackson would of been much more meaningful than wins over the following fighters: Thulani Malinga, Fermin Chirino, Danny Garcia and Thomas Tate. According to McClellan jones was ducking him at mw, he was targeting Jones which was one of the reasons he moved up to smw.


why would he fight toney at lightheavy again, toney beat no one and didn't warrant a rematch, instead he fought the #1 top contender griffin and if he hadn't hit montel while he was down he would've fought virgil when hill was the man to beat at lightheavy
What did Richard Frazier, Vinny Paz, Lou De Vale, Telesco, Thonton etc do to deserve a shot at Jones but not Toney?

Devils Advocate
01-23-2010, 07:24 AM
he ducked them by moving up in weight for the arguably #1 p4p fighter in the world?



why would he fight toney at lightheavy again, toney beat no one and didn't warrant a rematch, instead he fought the #1 top contender griffin and if he hadn't hit montel while he was down he would've fought virgil when hill was the man to beat at lightheavy
James Toney's talks to much and his weight troubles made him to risky. We all know that Roy Jones was a talented fighter that scared everybody good away. Before he fought Toney I was pretty sure Toney would be the first to put a boxing clinic on Roy but after that fight I two am guilty of becoming a fan over night. He was just to damn athletic which is why he sucks an average boxer now, damn getting older sucks but whatever if you ain't seen the beatdown on John Ruiz I still laught at that to this day. I would have retired if I were Ruiz b/c that was embarrassing lol

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 07:30 AM
Thats absolute bull****,Collins did everything possible to get a fight with Roy but Roy wanted none of it.
Collins stepped in the ring with Mike Mccallum in only his 17th fight and fought Reggie Johnson not long after yet he ducks Roy when hes in the prime of his life coming off victories over Eubank & Benn?

Roy Jones was a paper champion in every division,all his paper straps dont mean **** when he constantly avoided the best and ran to other weight classes.

i never said collins ducked jones, but he did
i never said jones ducked collins, but he did

but then again that was retired collins asking for more money
i find it hard, probabley impossible to find an article with jones calling out collins let alone responding to him before 1997

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 07:42 AM
You got a link for that? I find it strange that he would pay Mackie to help him get to hw but not use his help to get him down to lhw.

You keep saying think Hatton when I bring up the Toney being weight drained, so im using the same arguement for a fighter who was in a similar positon to Jones.
everyone knows jones didn't have mackie for the drop from heavyweight

here's one of many
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/saraceno/2003-11-06-saraceno_x.htm
For Roy Jones Jr., it's a matter of weight-and-see this weekend. Jones, headed back to light-heavyweight to fight Sunshine state rival Antonio Tarver, had a difficult time melting off more than 25 pounds after upsetting John Ruiz to capture the heavyweight championship. The one missing ingredient in his camp was conditioning expert Mackie Shilstone, who worked the Ruiz fight and was lauded by Jones for his contributions.

A win over McClellan and Jackson would of been much more meaningful than wins over the following fighters: Thulani Malinga, Fermin Chirino, Danny Garcia and Thomas Tate. According to McClellan jones was ducking him at mw, he was targeting Jones which was one of the reasons he moved up to smw.


What did Richard Frazier, Vinny Paz, Lou De Vale, Telesco, Thonton etc do to deserve a shot at Jones but not Toney?

jones moved up to SMW in 1992, mcclellan only moved up in what? 94?
and i dont remember any talk of the two fighting that early
the talks only started when jones beat toney, and gerald was set to fight jones had he gotten passed nigel benn

any article quotes?

and toney was moved up to cruiser the year jones moved up to lightheavy

those guys jones fought doesn't help your argument at all, not like toney was in the division when jones fought them, but if toney managed to even beat a contender like griffin, it would've happened, toney wasn't deserving of a rematch, be real

One more round
01-23-2010, 07:54 AM
James Toney hardly had a training camp for the Jones fight,He starved himself to lose 48lbs in 6 weeks...cmon man,No one is saying thats Roys fault but there is no way in hell Toney was anywhere near his best in that fight.
He was in disgraceful condition and deserved to get his ass handed to him.

Toney is the man, but he lost respect that night that took years to earn back, and turned a potentially competitive fight into a whitewash, because he lost the weight too fast, and looked like **** because of it.

General Zod
01-23-2010, 08:05 AM
everyone knows jones didn't have mackie for the drop from heavyweight

here's one of many
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/saraceno/2003-11-06-saraceno_x.htm
Cool, thanks for that


jones moved up to SMW in 1992, mcclellan only moved up in what? 94?
and i dont remember any talk of the two fighting that early
the talks only started when jones beat toney, and gerald was set to fight jones had he gotten passed nigel benn

any article quotes?
McClellan was a champion of the following organizations at mw:
1991-11-20 1991-11-20 wbo
1993-05-08 1994-05-07 wbc

Jones was a champion of the IBF for the period:
1993-05-22 1994-05-27

They were both champs in the same divison for one year

Im going to have to get back to you on links for the McCLellan/Jones matchup

and toney was moved up to cruiser the year jones moved up to lightheavy

Toney had openly said that he would move back down in a second if Jones wanted a rematch, it is covered in The Dark Trade by Donald McRae, also if you watch the post fight talks after the Toney washington fight he talks about being willing to move back down to fight Jones at lhw.


those guys jones fought doesn't help your argument at all, not like toney was in the division when jones fought them, but if toney managed to even beat a contender like griffin, it would've happened, toney wasn't deserving of a rematch, be real

Jones is willing to fight postman, policeman and sanitation workers but Toney doesnt deserve a fight? Toney talks about how HBO was also interested in a rematch between them in the above book. Toney was robbed in that second Griffin fight as well.

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 08:11 AM
can i just say somethin smithy?

you know how right now we got, shawn porter, and some other olympians and **** in one division? well actually i think most of them a division above porter

but at some point they've been there, for about a year or longer

anyway, my point is, when he got real good prodigy's (like Gamboa & Juanma)
do you just head straight for eachother or would you build your resume for a mega bucks showdown?
what would happen now if juanma/gamboa sufferred brain damage in todays fights?(please god dont let it be, im just giving an example) would people later on in life say, oh, did you know these guys blah blah, so -insert gamboa/juanma- clearly ducked -insert gamboa/juanma-

General Zod
01-23-2010, 08:32 AM
does anyone use the weight excuse for hatton losing to pacquiao or mayweather?
did you know james toney weighed in 193 pounds against butler?
after an hour toney came in at 175

he ko'd butler in 4 rounds
Since moving to smw Toney had 12 fights in a two year period and was balloning up inbetween fights it was only a matter of time before it blew up in his face. Especially when he staggers into training camp over 40 lbs overweight 6 weeks before the fight. He had to get put on a drip to rehydrate himself look at how flabby he was in that fight.

You cant just say think Hatton, because Hatton never was in the same position. Yes he does ballon up inbetween fights but he fights between 1-2 times a year. Just imagine if Hatton was fighting 6 times a year like Toney and yo yo between the scales.

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 08:39 AM
Since moving to smw Toney had 12 fights in a two year period and was balloning up inbetween fights it was only a matter of time before it blew up in his face. Especially when he staggers into training camp over 40 lbs overweight 6 weeks before the fight. He had to get put on a drip to rehydrate himself look at how flabby he was in that fight.

You cant just say think Hatton, because Hatton never was in the same position. Yes he does ballon up inbetween fights but he fights between 1-2 times a year. Just imagine if Hatton was fighting 6 times a year like Toney and yo yo between the scales.

ignore that what i said in that post, completely misinterpreted

it's worse for hatton because he really does blow up tho, i mean he goes up into 200 odd pounds and has to boil down to 140

General Zod
01-23-2010, 08:41 AM
can i just say somethin smithy?
you know how right now we got, shawn porter, and some other olympians and **** in one division? well actually i think most of them a division above porter

but at some point they've been there, for about a year or longer

anyway, my point is, when he got real good prodigy's (like Gamboa & Juanma)
do you just head straight for eachother or would you build your resume for a mega bucks showdown?
what would happen now if juanma/gamboa sufferred brain damage in todays fights?(please god dont let it be, im just giving an example) would people later on in life say, oh, did you know these guys blah blah, so -insert gamboa/juanma- clearly ducked -insert gamboa/juanma-
It depends on the fighters for example Tyson tried to unify all the belts before prison and after his prison stint. Hagler did the same thing after beating Antefurmo.

On the flip side Leonard did keep away from Hearns until they thought the fight would have been bigger business.

My question to you, do you think Jones would of fought McClellan at smw?

General Zod
01-23-2010, 08:47 AM
ignore that what i said in that post, completely misinterpreted

it's worse for hatton because he really does blow up tho, i mean he goes up into 200 odd pounds and has to boil down to 140
Which one is worse I dont know Toney blowing up 20+ between fights or Hatton spending 6 months at 190+ then coming down.
Hatton is playing russian roulette with his weight, his days at 140 are numbered and if he ever fights there again he is going to look dreadful.

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 08:48 AM
It depends on the fighters for example Tyson tried to unify all the belts before prison and after his prison stint. Hagler did the same thing after beating Antefurmo.

On the flip side Leonard did keep away from Hearns until they thought the fight would have been bigger business.

My question to you, do you think Jones would of fought McClellan at smw?

they were set to fight, and mccellan was easily outboxed, if you seen him against hearns, his other two losses against some nobodies, he packed power, but he didn't hurt jones in the amatuers, not even a standing 8 count, but jones gave mcclellan a broken jaw

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 08:50 AM
Which one is worse I dont know Toney blowing up 20+ between fights or Hatton spending 6 months at 190+ then coming down.
Hatton is playing russian roulette with his weight, his days at 140 are numbered and if he ever fights there again he is going to look dreadful.

hatton blows up 50+ pounds in a day, im not joking
straight after the pacquiao fight he was in an interview a fat bastard

General Zod
01-23-2010, 08:56 AM
they were set to fight, and mccellan was easily outboxed, if you seen him against hearns, his other two losses against some nobodies, he packed power, but he didn't hurt jones in the amatuers, not even a standing 8 count, but jones gave mcclellan a broken jaw
Ive seem that Hearns exhibition fight, when did that happened? Im sure his punching power also increased drastically since the amatuers days. Benn talks about never being hit as hard as he wa against McClellan.

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 08:57 AM
Ive seem that Hearns exhibition fight, when did that happened? Im sure his punching power also increased drastically since the amatuers days. Benn talks about never being hit as hard as he wa against McClellan.

like i said, he packed a punch, but he would be easily outboxed by an elite like roy jones

General Zod
01-23-2010, 08:58 AM
hatton blows up 50+ pounds in a day, im not joking
straight after the pacquiao fight he was in an interview a fat bastard
ive seen that interview it was amazing how much weight he had managed to put back on. Dudes going to end up with serious heart problems later on in life thats for sure.

General Zod
01-23-2010, 09:02 AM
like i said, he packed a punch, but he would be easily outboxed by an elite like roy jones
I have no problem with the idea of Jones outboxing him, but what about Jones chin, could it take a McClellan bomb?

Toney also claims to have footage of him and McClellan sparring back in the Kronks gym, he says he always got the better of McClellan. Maybe he will release it to the public one of these days.

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 09:13 AM
I have no problem with the idea of Jones outboxing him, but what about Jones chin. Could he take a McClellan bomb?

Toney also claims to have footage of him and McClellan sparring back in the Kronks gym, he says he always got the better of McClellan. Maybe he will release them to the public one of these days.

gerald mcclellan lost to two bums, i doubt both had some iron cast chin chins, mcclellan was just easy to outbox if you weren't there to brawl with him

General Zod
01-23-2010, 09:18 AM
gerald mcclellan lost to two bums, i doubt both had some iron cast chin chins, mcclellan was just easy to outbox if you weren't there to brawl with him
Have you found those fights yet, I know you were looking for them? He never had a good defence either during his time with Steward or after. I have never been impressed with the D of any of Manny Stewards fighters.

Dynamite Kid
01-23-2010, 10:45 AM
I dont get into this that guy ducked this guy this guy ducked that but one thing i will say about Roy Jones is that, what ever alleged problems Roy had finding credible opponents im sure he could of found better people to fight than the likes of Brannon,Frazier and Hall.

That alone tells me Roy did not make a conscious effort to seek out the best challenges he could find.

Look at the BS he tried to pull when Tarver was his mandatory, he tried to make him fight Harding, Tarver then lost the fight.

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 11:10 AM
I dont get into this that guy ducked this guy this guy ducked that but one thing i will say about Roy Jones is that, what ever alleged problems Roy had finding credible opponents im sure he could of found better people to fight than the likes of Brannon,Frazier and Hall.

That alone tells me Roy did not make a conscious effort to seek out the best challenges he could find.

Look at the BS he tried to pull when Tarver was his mandatory, he tried to make him fight Harding, Tarver then lost the fight.

the IBF ordered that eliminator bout between harding and tarver, the winner was to be jones mandatory, tarver lost, so harding fought jones :thumbsdow

Dynamite Kid
01-23-2010, 12:03 PM
the IBF ordered that eliminator bout between harding and tarver, the winner was to be jones mandatory, tarver lost, so harding fought jones :thumbsdow

Yes because it was suggested to them by Jones & murad muhammad. Ive seen the pre fight interview before the Tarver vs Harding fight where murad muhammad explains this.

CarlosG815
01-23-2010, 12:57 PM
tyson said he wouldn't of fought jones at dat point cuz he was too fast

Tyson couldn't have been serious. Jones at heavyweight couldn't touch Tyson.

Don't let Tyson ferocious punching power overshadow the rest of his ability. That's what everybody does. They look at Tyson and only credit his punching power when in reality he was the most evasive, fastest, best combo punching heavyweight of all time. I really don't care what anybody says, what I just listed is my opinion, but if you look at the speed of Tyson compared to other heavyweights, the guy was just blazing.

I would say that he could duck, dodge, and throw blazing combos at heavyweight faster than RJJ could at middleweight.

Tyson in his prime was an all around perfect specimen of a heavyweight, inside-offensive brawler/boxer. I genuinely believe that NO heavyweight at any point in time could beat a PRIME Mike Tyson, let alone a guy like Roy Jones Jr.

:boxing:

General Zod
01-23-2010, 01:02 PM
Tyson in his prime was an all around perfect specimen of a heavyweight, inside-offensive brawler/boxer. I genuinely believe that NO heavyweight at any point in time could beat a PRIME Mike Tyson, let alone a guy like Roy Jones Jr.

:boxing:
Was a Jones-Tyson fight ever seriously considered? Tyson would have been way to big for Jones

CarlosG815
01-23-2010, 01:05 PM
Was a Jones-Tyson fight ever seriously considered? Tyson would have been way to big for Jones

Not that I know of. Somebody on here said RJJ could fight tyson and claims that Tyson himself admitted he wouldn't fight RJJ because of his speed. :alcoholic

General Zod
01-23-2010, 01:10 PM
Not that I know of. Somebody on here said RJJ could fight tyson and claims that Tyson himself admitted he wouldn't fight RJJ because of his speed. :alcoholic
Thanks for replying.
I have no problem with Jones not fighting the elite hw they were all just to big for him come fight night some of those guys would have outweighed him by 40+ lbs.I do know that HBO was interested in a match up between Jones and Lewis, but I think Lewis said he wasnt interested in such a fight.

General Zod
01-23-2010, 01:13 PM
Tyson in his prime was an all around perfect specimen of a heavyweight, inside-offensive brawler/boxer. I genuinely believe that NO heavyweight at any point in time could beat a PRIME Mike Tyson, let alone a guy like Roy Jones Jr.

:boxing:
Tyson was a great fighter no doubt, but he never had the mental toughness of a great fighter. Its a shame really things should of went very differently for him.

CarlosG815
01-23-2010, 01:35 PM
Tyson was a great fighter no doubt, but he never had the mental toughness of a great fighter. Its a shame really things should of went very differently for him.

??? What makes you say that? His mental toughness was never in question during his prime, only after he got tired of the sport and would rather enjoy his 300 million with strippers.

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 02:17 PM
Tyson couldn't have been serious. Jones at heavyweight couldn't touch Tyson.

Don't let Tyson ferocious punching power overshadow the rest of his ability. That's what everybody does. They look at Tyson and only credit his punching power when in reality he was the most evasive, fastest, best combo punching heavyweight of all time. I really don't care what anybody says, what I just listed is my opinion, but if you look at the speed of Tyson compared to other heavyweights, the guy was just blazing.

I would say that he could duck, dodge, and throw blazing combos at heavyweight faster than RJJ could at middleweight.

Tyson in his prime was an all around perfect specimen of a heavyweight, inside-offensive brawler/boxer. I genuinely believe that NO heavyweight at any point in time could beat a PRIME Mike Tyson, let alone a guy like Roy Jones Jr.

:boxing:

no one is talking about prime tyson tho are they, try and keep up

General Zod
01-23-2010, 02:26 PM
??? What makes you say that? His mental toughness was never in question during his prime, only after he got tired of the sport and would rather enjoy his 300 million with strippers.
Of course is hard to put an exact time frame on his prime but lets say from Berbick to Spinks.If you watch the Tucker fight when he realised he couldnt get Tucker out of there you notice his workrate started to drop. to the point where Rooney was screaming at him to use the jab and finish the last couple of rounds strong. He never liked training hard after Cus Damato died as well, and started to skip training sessions afterwords

CarlosG815
01-23-2010, 03:22 PM
no one is talking about prime tyson tho are they, try and keep up

lol actually whenever you talk a fantasy fight you always consider prime vs prime, but nice try at being a smart ass. :bye:

And if you watch the Tyson vs Ruddock 2 fight you'll see that Tyson fought hard for 12 rounds and never slowed up mentally. He did get a little tired, but you have to give Ruddock props, he got his jaw shattered and his face pulverized and kept coming back for more and dishing shots of his own.

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 03:25 PM
lol actually whenever you talk a fantasy fight you always consider prime vs prime, but nice try at being a smart ass. :bye:
no idiot, again, when jones was at heavyweight he called out tyson and tyson didn't want none
can you guess what year jones was at heavyweight?

why would we compare a prime jones(which isn't at heavyweight) to a prime tyson?
are you stupid? try and keep up

jones could've and would've handed tyson an asswhoopin if tyson had answered his call at the time after he beat ruiz

General Zod
01-23-2010, 03:30 PM
And if you watch the Tyson vs Ruddock 2 fight you'll see that Tyson fought hard for 12 rounds and never slowed up mentally. He did get a little tired, but you have to give Ruddock props, he got his jaw shattered and his face pulverized and kept coming back for more and dishing shots of his own.
By that time in his career his skills had entirely eroded, his head movement and combination punching had gone out of the window. Its been a while since Ive seen that fight so I cant comment on it. I also remember the Pinklon Thomas fight were he seemed to take the middle rounds off.

The end started first with the death of Cus and then with the death of Jim Jacobs. He didnt want to train anymore and im sure if he wanted to he could of stopped so many of his opponents clinching him like they did. Teddy atlas talks about a lot of this in his autobiography

CarlosG815
01-23-2010, 03:33 PM
no idiot, again, when jones was at heavyweight he called out tyson and tyson didn't want none
can you guess what year jones was at heavyweight?

why would we compare a prime jones(which isn't at heavyweight) to a prime tyson?
are you stupid? try and keep up

jones could've and would've handed tyson an asswhoopin if tyson had answered his call at the time after he beat ruiz

You ****ing moron. It's called a FANTASY fight. We're not talking time frames. Gee, who would win a prime Tyson or a prime Louis. Gee, seeing as how Louis was ****ing dead, I guess Tyson would take that one.

And if you seriously think Jones could beat Tyson cause he beat Ruiz it just further solidifies the fact that you're a ****ing idiot. Ruiz was never an all time great, and if Ruiz was even an above average champion, RJJ wouldn't have taken a fight with him.

I know you're young and dumb, but at least watch these guys and how they fight, because it's obvious you don't know your film.

Go smoke another fatty and :bryce:

General Zod
01-23-2010, 03:33 PM
jones could've and would've handed tyson an asswhoopin if tyson had answered his call at the time after he beat ruiz
I vaguely remember Jones talkung about Tyson, but wasnt Jones asking for an insane amount of money?

CarlosG815
01-23-2010, 03:37 PM
By that time in his career his skills had entirely eroded, his head movement and combination punching had gone out of the window. Its been a while since Ive seen that fight so I cant comment on it. I also remember the Pinklon Thomas fight were he seemed to take the middle rounds off.

The end started first with the death of Cus and then with the death of Jim Jacobs. He didnt want to train anymore and im sure if he wanted to he could of stopped so many of his opponents clinching him like they did. Teddy atlas talks about a lot of this in his autobiography

I agree with you 100% that his skills were a shadow of what they were but even so he was still a much above average Heavyweight. In all honesty he wasn't at the top of his game anytime after 87-88.

General Zod
01-23-2010, 03:42 PM
I agree with you 100% that his skills were a shadow of what they were but even so he was still a much above average Heavyweight. In all honesty he wasn't at the top of his game anytime after 87-88.
It was over by then King, Givens, not wanting to train, parasites, prostitutes and taking all of that unneccesary anti depression medication, talk about a bad mix. He was just fighting for the money, moreso after prison.

Over here a boxer called Barry McGuigan said its best to remember tTyson from 1986-1988 and I have to agree with him. He had no business losing to the likes of Lewis and Holyfield imo.

CarlosG815
01-23-2010, 03:42 PM
I vaguely remember Jones talkung about Tyson, but wasnt Jones asking for an insane amount of money?

I honestly don't remember any serious negotiations. I don't even think it made it to the negotiation stage between them, but was more of a fight that the media and other journalists were speculating.

Roy's style is made for a guy like Tyson. Jones was an outside fighter and we all know how Tyson loved those guys. He was brilliant at getting inside and once he did they were just as good as dead.

That Ruiz fight was lame anyway. Didn't it go to a split decision?

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 03:43 PM
You ****ing moron. It's called a FANTASY fight. We're not talking time frames. Gee, who would win a prime Tyson or a prime Louis. Gee, seeing as how Louis was ****ing dead, I guess Tyson would take that one.

And if you seriously think Jones could beat Tyson cause he beat Ruiz it just further solidifies the fact that you're a ****ing idiot. Ruiz was never an all time great, and if Ruiz was even an above average champion, RJJ wouldn't have taken a fight with him.

I know you're young and dumb, but at least watch these guys and how they fight, because it's obvious you don't know your film.

Go smoke another fatty and :bryce:

:pat: look, i see your obviously slow, but if we are talkin about who jones COULD'VE fought "AT THE TIME"
why would you take a tyson in the 80's or some**** against a jones of the 90's to see who would win when the fight between the two was closest to being made in the 00's?

do you understand what im sayin or do i have to repeat and rephrase it a couple more times? or do you understand but just cant take being wrong so are further digging yourself a hole?

CarlosG815
01-23-2010, 03:46 PM
Over here a boxer called Barry McGuigan said its best to remember tTyson from 1986-1988 and I have to agree with him. He had no business losing to the likes of Lewis and Holyfield imo.

Amen brother. Lewis is the most over rated heavyweight ever. Talk about a boring fighter with no legitimate skill, feet, power or style.

I can't stand watching him fight.

TheHolyCross
01-23-2010, 03:46 PM
I honestly don't remember any serious negotiations. I don't even think it made it to the negotiation stage between them, but was more of a fight that the media and other journalists were speculating.

Roy's style is made for a guy like Tyson. Jones was an outside fighter and we all know how Tyson loved those guys. He was brilliant at getting inside and once he did they were just as good as dead.

That Ruiz fight was lame anyway. Didn't it go to a split decision?

i hope to god your not talking about jones-ruiz, cuz if you are you should just leave this forum, you clearly no **** all

General Zod
01-23-2010, 03:48 PM
I honestly don't remember any serious negotiations. I don't even think it made it to the negotiation stage between them, but was more of a fight that the media and other journalists were speculating.
I dont think it was ever seriously considered


Roy's style is made for a guy like Tyson. Jones was an outside fighter and we all know how Tyson loved those guys. He was brilliant at getting inside and once he did they were just as good as dead.

Tyson at this point had lost to both Holyfield and Lewis and was just fighting to pay off his debts. I think we are talking about the version of Tyson that beat Clifford Ettiene, due to his power I would still give him a good chance against Jones though

That Ruiz fight was lame anyway. Didn't it go to a split decision?
[/QUOTE]
I thought the Ruiz fight was cool, but Jones won it by a clear ud if I remember correctly.

CarlosG815
01-23-2010, 03:49 PM
:pat: look, i see your obviously slow, but if we are talkin about who jones COULD'VE fought "AT THE TIME"
why would you take a tyson in the 80's or some**** against a jones of the 90's to see who would win when the fight between the two was closest to being made in the 00's?

do you understand what im sayin or do i have to repeat and rephrase it a couple more times? or do you understand but just cant take being wrong so are further digging yourself a hole?

If you seriously believe that Jones could beat Tyson at any point in either of their careers, Jones at his best, Tyson at his worst, then you seriously have no business talking about boxing. It's impossible to take you serious when you make stupid ass claims.

Take a midol, and I'll say it again - :bryce:

General Zod
01-23-2010, 03:51 PM
Amen brother. Lewis is the most over rated heavyweight ever. Talk about a boring fighter with no legitimate skill, feet, power or style.

I can't stand watching him fight.

Lewis was awful in my opinion with his jab and clinch style, the dude ducked so many fighters it was unreal and people consider him a ATG

My favorite Lewis fights are Oliver McCall I and Rahman I, can you guess why?lol

phallus
01-23-2010, 05:02 PM
Toney has said that he had come to terms with that loss and wanted to have a rematch at lhw. A rematch with Toney would of been more meaningful than fights with the Lou de Vales of the world at LHW.

i really wanted to see a RJJ - toney rematch but maybe better for james at cruiser, after toney got robbed against griffin ( the 2nd fight) he started coming into 175 lb fights weighin 200 lbs and lost his motivation. the real james toney didn't come back until he fought jirov at 190 lbs


Lewis was awful in my opinion with his jab and clinch style, the dude ducked so many fighters it was unreal and people consider him a ATG

My favorite Lewis fights are Oliver McCall I and Rahman I, can you guess why?lol

lewis refused to fight chris byrd, that pissed me off because i really wanted to see that fight. lewis said byrd had " no chance " but he dropped a belt so he wouldn't have to fight byrd, if byrd really had "no chance " why not prove it to the world by stopping him. i think the real reason lewis refused to fight byrd was that even if he won (the prime) byrd's skills had a way of making his opponents look bad, it was looking bad that lewis was afraid of - a ***** move. i lost my respect for lewis after that

Alec900
01-23-2010, 05:37 PM
If you seriously believe that Jones could beat Tyson at any point in either of their careers, Jones at his best, Tyson at his worst, then you seriously have no business talking about boxing. It's impossible to take you serious when you make stupid ass claims.

Take a midol, and I'll say it again - :bryce:

really? not even the version who lost to williams and mcbride?

bojangles1987
01-23-2010, 08:23 PM
I honestly don't remember any serious negotiations. I don't even think it made it to the negotiation stage between them, but was more of a fight that the media and other journalists were speculating.

Roy's style is made for a guy like Tyson. Jones was an outside fighter and we all know how Tyson loved those guys. He was brilliant at getting inside and once he did they were just as good as dead.

That Ruiz fight was lame anyway. Didn't it go to a split decision?

If you are talking about Jones-Ruiz, that was an easy RJ win.

True Guru
01-23-2010, 09:03 PM
Tyson would have destroyed Roy,Even a 2002 Tyson kills Roy.
Roy always had a crap chin...no way in hell could he take Mikes power,He couldnt even take Johnsons and Tarvers lol

True Guru
01-23-2010, 09:10 PM
He had no business losing to the likes of Lewis and Holyfield imo.

Damn you dont rate big Lennox?

Amen brother. Lewis is the most over rated heavyweight ever. Talk about a boring fighter with no legitimate skill, feet, power or style.

I can't stand watching him fight.

I agree he was boring but no legitimate skill?????

Lewis was awful in my opinion with his jab and clinch style, the dude ducked so many fighters it was unreal and people consider him a ATG

My favorite Lewis fights are Oliver McCall I and Rahman I, can you guess why?lol

Who did Lennox Lewis ever duck?
All I know is Riddick Bowe would rather throw his strap in the trash than face Lewis, and Tyson would rather face Bruce Seldon in 96 than face Lewis.

General Zod
01-24-2010, 07:45 AM
Damn you dont rate big Lennox?
No, never liked Lewis tried to be a fan after his destruction of a shot Razor Ruddock, but the guy was way to boring for me. The dude was given a Boxing lesson by Bruno and was wiped out by Tyson sparring partner in 2 rounds.


Who did Lennox Lewis ever duck?
All I know is Riddick Bowe would rather throw his strap in the trash than face Lewis, and Tyson would rather face Bruce Seldon in 96 than face Lewis.
Lewis Ducked the following fighters:
Ray Mercer: Mercer wanted a rematch but Lewis turned him down
Chris Byrd: Byrd was his [IBF mandatory and Lewis gave up the belt rather than fight him
John Ruiz:was his WBA mandatory, Lewis gave up his belt rather than fight him
Ike Ibebuchi:After his win over Tua contacted Lewis twice about a fight but Lewis said not interested.
Vitali: Lewis gave up his WBC strap rather than give Vitali a well deserved rematch, which the WBC also demanded. So he was stripped of that belt as well

Ray*
01-24-2010, 08:50 AM
i've heard a couple of times that he handpicked his opponents, now i wasnt following boxing back then, but to me it seems that he fought everybody that he could, he was just on a way higher level.

but then, he could've fought Tyson instead of Ruiz too right? this all is getting a little confusing. can someone explain this a little more clearly?


Never really followed RJJ's career but i heard he handpicked his opponents but who doesnt??? And whenever the question arise about who he ducked i only get one name thrown out which is Darius Micha....

CarlosG815
01-24-2010, 10:59 AM
really? not even the version who lost to williams and mcbride?

Definitely. As crappy of fighters as they were, they were still big guys. Not just big guys, but HUGE heavyweights. Had Tyson actually trained and wanted to fight, he could have beat McBride, but he just didn't want to.

RJJ wouldn't take a whole lot of effort for Tyson at any point in his career.

I can't believe this is a serious topic. There are really people who sincerely believe RJJ could beat Tyson?

WTF???

TheHolyCross
01-24-2010, 11:12 AM
Definitely. As crappy of fighters as they were, they were still big guys. Not just big guys, but HUGE heavyweights. Had Tyson actually trained and wanted to fight, he could have beat McBride, but he just didn't want to.

RJJ wouldn't take a whole lot of effort for Tyson at any point in his career.

I can't believe this is a serious topic. There are really people who sincerely believe RJJ could beat Tyson?

WTF???

could you just stop posting? just to do yourself a favour

CarlosG815
01-24-2010, 11:30 AM
could you just stop posting? just to do yourself a favour


:tool:

Nice avatar. You got a crush on that guy or something? Who puts a guy with whip cream on his tits as their avatar? :gay:

Troll.

True Guru
01-24-2010, 12:28 PM
No, never liked Lewis tried to be a fan after his destruction of a shot Razor Ruddock, but the guy was way to boring for me. The dude was given a Boxing lesson by Bruno and was wiped out by Tyson sparring partner in 2 rounds.


Lewis Ducked the following fighters:
Ray Mercer: Mercer wanted a rematch but Lewis turned him down
Chris Byrd: Byrd was his [IBF mandatory and Lewis gave up the belt rather than fight him
John Ruiz:was his WBA mandatory, Lewis gave up his belt rather than fight him
Ike Ibebuchi:After his win over Tua contacted Lewis twice about a fight but Lewis said not interested.
Vitali: Lewis gave up his WBC strap rather than give Vitali a well deserved rematch, which the WBC also demanded. So he was stripped of that belt as well

No offence man but Byrd and Ruiz wouldnt have stood a chance against Lewis,Byrd lost every round in two fights V Wladimir Klitschko and Ruiz well the less said about him the better.
I think he should have gave rematches to Mercer and Vitali because they were close fights so I can see your point but dont think he ducked them because he had already beat them.
Mike Tyson and Riddick Bowe both ducked the man,But I agree that he was boring to watch.

General Zod
01-24-2010, 12:50 PM
Mike Tyson and Riddick Bowe both ducked the man,But I agree that he was boring to watch.
:rofl::rofl:
Lewis vs Tucker was just shocking, I think I watched about 3 rounds before switching off.

Calilloyd
01-25-2010, 12:02 AM
[QUOTE=elephant man;7327273]James Toney hardly had a training camp for the Jones fight,He starved himself to lose 48lbs in 6 weeks...cmon man,No one is saying thats Roys fault but there is no way in hell Toney was anywhere near his best in that fight.

You're just making up things now. And Hopkins went undefeated for 12 years after the Jones fight. So to say he was "only a shell"
of what he became is not accurate or truthful. As far as DM, Jones did not want to go to his country to get robbed. And DM never fought out of Germany for a reason. Just check out the gifts he got in fights with Graciano Rocchigiani, Richard Hall, and Montell Griffin. Tell the whole story. Not fabrications.

Calilloyd
01-25-2010, 12:07 AM
:rofl::rofl:
Lewis vs Tucker was just shocking, I think I watched about 3 rounds before switching off.

That was one fight. And Lewis had plenty of KO's on record. Many with one punch. What was "boring" about those? To base a fighters mans career on one fight he dominated is ridiculous.

General Zod
01-25-2010, 06:58 AM
That was one fight. And Lewis had plenty of KO's on record. Many with one punch. What was "boring" about those? To base a fighters mans career on one fight he dominated is ridiculous.
If you read my previous posts you will find I mention: McCall I,Rahman I, Ruddock and Bruno. On top of that I have watched McCall II,Mason,Mercer I,Tyson, Holyfield I and II and Morrison.
I found Lewis style of fighting boring: jab, straight right and clinch.
Just because a guy has koed a lot of people doesnt make them exciting which is a subjective criteria anyway.

General Zod
01-25-2010, 07:01 AM
James Toney hardly had a training camp for the Jones fight,He starved himself to lose 48lbs in 6 weeks...cmon man,No one is saying thats Roys fault but there is no way in hell Toney was anywhere near his best in that fight.


You're just making up things now. And Hopkins went undefeated for 12 years after the Jones fight. So to say he was "only a shell"
of what he became is not accurate or truthful. As far as DM, Jones did not want to go to his country to get robbed. And DM never fought out of Germany for a reason. Just check out the gifts he got in fights with Graciano Rocchigiani, Richard Hall, and Montell Griffin. Tell the whole story. Not fabrications.
Its a well known fact that Toney was in awful shape for his fight against Jones its covered in detail in the following book: The Dark Trade by Donald McRae

nachorjj
01-25-2010, 07:16 AM
B Hop was like 27 or 28 when he fought RJJ and had been boxing for most of his life.

And if you think he had a chance against Tyson at any point in Tyson's career, you're straight delusional or you've never watched the man fight. Tyson isn't the same as he was in the 80's, but he's weighed over 200 lb's since he was a teenager. Just the pure intimidation that RJJ would feel looking across the ring would make him wet his pants and he'd be done before the bell rang.

And honestly, RJJ doesn't throw hard enough to hurt Mike if he did have the balls to get inside.
:damnit:

I think that Roy was more green than Hopkins in his fight. and I think that Roy out box a past prime Tyson. The reason of Roy to fight Ruiz and not Mike is that Ruis was the champion at the time and not Mike

IMDAZED
01-25-2010, 10:28 AM
Its a well known fact that Toney was in awful shape for his fight against Jones its covered in detail in the following book: The Dark Trade by Donald McRae

Yeah, he was always in awful shape. Big deal.

General Zod
01-25-2010, 11:14 AM
Yeah, he was always in awful shape. Big deal.
:dance::dance::dance:

donkim
01-25-2010, 11:21 AM
:dance::dance::dance:




This emoticon always reminds me of the "Safety Dance" song.

True Guru
01-25-2010, 01:27 PM
You're just making up things now. Tell the whole story. Not fabrications.

Toney started camp 6 weeks before the Jones fight,He entered camp weighing 214lbs..in 6 weeks he starved himself down to 167lbs.
Its not fabrications,its the truth,sorry.

And Hopkins went undefeated for 12 years after the Jones fight. So to say he was "only a shell"
of what he became is not accurate or truthful.

Joe Calzaghe went 15 years unbeaten,so according to your logic he was always in his prime.
A few fights after Jones,Hopkins was put on his ass and drew with a straight up bum..prime Hopkins? :lol1: yeah sure he was.



As far as DM, Jones did not want to go to his country to get robbed. And DM never fought out of Germany for a reason. Just check out the gifts he got in fights with Graciano Rocchigiani, Richard Hall, and Montell Griffin. Tell the whole story. Not fabrications.

More Jones bull****.
Dariusz M said he would have fought In America,Jones didnt want the fight end of story.
Roy Jones ducked the best guy in the division and then fought lesser guys for the two straps that Dariusz had vacated :lol1:

Yeah, he was always in awful shape. Big deal.


He went from 214lbs to 167lbs in 6 weeks to make weight...24 hours later on fight night he weighed in at 184lbs :lol1:17lbs in 24 hours put back on, Even HBO couldnt believe the condition he was in.
Thats the equivalent of Ricky Hatton in his current state making the 140lb limit for a fight in Early March :lol1:
Hatton has actually said it will take him 5 months to lost over 50lbs to be ready for a summer fight whereas Toney starved himself to do it in a measley 6 weeks.

True Guru
01-25-2010, 01:47 PM
:lol1:The funniest thing about Jones fans is that they claim Toney as a great win yet blame the loss to Tarver on Roys weight draining.

CCobra
01-25-2010, 01:53 PM
Elephant Man is on a roll here. Agree with everything he's saying.

PS: it's Pea

Obama
01-25-2010, 01:55 PM
EM is a RJJ historian. Sadly this is as far as his history knowledge goes. :P

General Zod
01-25-2010, 02:46 PM
:lol1:The funniest thing about Jones fans is that they claim Toney as a great win yet blame the loss to Tarver on Roys weight draining.
Well the Jones fans say that losing muscle is different to losing fat

IMDAZED
01-25-2010, 02:48 PM
Toney started camp 6 weeks before the Jones fight,He entered camp weighing 214lbs..in 6 weeks he starved himself down to 167lbs.
Its not fabrications,its the truth,sorry.



Joe Calzaghe went 15 years unbeaten,so according to your logic he was always in his prime.
A few fights after Jones,Hopkins was put on his ass and drew with a straight up bum..prime Hopkins? :lol1: yeah sure he was.





More Jones bull****.
Dariusz M said he would have fought In America,Jones didnt want the fight end of story.
Roy Jones ducked the best guy in the division and then fought lesser guys for the two straps that Dariusz had vacated :lol1:




He went from 214lbs to 167lbs in 6 weeks to make weight...24 hours later on fight night he weighed in at 184lbs :lol1:17lbs in 24 hours put back on, Even HBO couldnt believe the condition he was in.
Thats the equivalent of Ricky Hatton in his current state making the 140lb limit for a fight in Early March :lol1:
Hatton has actually said it will take him 5 months to lost over 50lbs to be ready for a summer fight whereas Toney starved himself to do it in a measley 6 weeks.

I'm not quite sure why it's Jones fault James Toney couldn't stay in shape. Toney has been out of shape for much of his career.

Secondly, Dariusz Michalchewski stating that he'd fight Jones in the US means squat. Negotiations between Square Ring and Universum were so ridiculous that HBO stepped in to negotiate with Klaus Peter-Kohl personally. And they left with the same impression Square Ring had: Universum did not want the fight; not in the US anyway.

IMDAZED
01-25-2010, 02:49 PM
Well the Jones fans say that losing muscle is different to losing fat

Toney being out of shape is an excuse that doesn't hold water. He's been out of shape for plenty of fights. He's never lost 12-0 aside from one though.

General Zod
01-25-2010, 03:00 PM
Toney being out of shape is an excuse that doesn't hold water. He's been out of shape for plenty of fights. He's never lost 12-0 aside from one though.
Thats not exactly true one of the refs gave him a round and when asked why he said," because Toney turned up.":rofl:

donkim
01-25-2010, 03:17 PM
PS: it's Pea



Grow up.Nobody cares if you know him from another forum,you sad cunt.You should try looking for friends in the real world rather than on the internet.

General Zod
01-25-2010, 03:33 PM
Grow up.Nobody cares if you know him from another forum,you sad cunt.You should try looking for friends in the real world rather than on the internet.

God bless you Donkim making friends as usual I see
ps-Thats a seriously shocking bhop avatar as well:dance:

True Guru
01-25-2010, 04:03 PM
Elephant Man is on a roll here. Agree with everything he's saying.

PS: it's Pea

Hey Pea,Hows things?

EM is a RJJ historian. Sadly this is as far as his history knowledge goes. :P

:nana:Stop baiting Obama

Well the Jones fans say that losing muscle is different to losing fat

Thats cus they are stupid.

I'm not quite sure why it's Jones fault James Toney couldn't stay in shape. Toney has been out of shape for much of his career.

Secondly, Dariusz Michalchewski stating that he'd fight Jones in the US means squat. Negotiations between Square Ring and Universum were so ridiculous that HBO stepped in to negotiate with Klaus Peter-Kohl personally. And they left with the same impression Square Ring had: Universum did not want the fight; not in the US anyway.

Like I said Toney was in disgraceful condition and deserved an ass kicking,Im glad Roy beat him but lets not kid ourselves and say he was 100% fit.

Toney being out of shape is an excuse that doesn't hold water. He's been out of shape for plenty of fights. He's never lost 12-0 aside from one though.

What other fights did he starve himself to lose 47lbs in 6 weeks?

Grow up.Nobody cares if you know him from another forum,you sad cunt.You should try looking for friends in the real world rather than on the internet.

:bottle:Does baby want his bottle?

IMDAZED
01-25-2010, 05:03 PM
Like I said Toney was in disgraceful condition and deserved an ass kicking,Im glad Roy beat him but lets not kid ourselves and say he was 100% fit.

What other fights did he starve himself to lose 47lbs in 6 weeks?


How would we know? He only needed it as an excuse when he got his a** beat from pillar to post. I don't doubt it at all but when he was killing himself and winning, it was fine. But if he was able to gain THAT much weight in between fights - and he was notorious for that - then I would assume it wouldn't be the first time. Especially since he had only fought four months before and looked tremendous. When has Toney not struggled to make weight? He can barely make HEAVY.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. The Toney win is a great, great win for Jones. A future hall of famer in his prime; an undefeated two-time champ who was as feared as any back then. And barely won a minute. Weight? Maybe. Something tells me no version of Toney was touching Roy that night.

True Guru
01-25-2010, 05:20 PM
How would we know? He only needed it as an excuse when he got his a** beat from pillar to post. I don't doubt it at all but when he was killing himself and winning, it was fine. But if he was able to gain THAT much weight in between fights - and he was notorious for that - then I would assume it wouldn't be the first time. Especially since he had only fought four months before and looked tremendous. When has Toney not struggled to make weight? He can barely make HEAVY.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. The Toney win is a great, great win for Jones. A future hall of famer in his prime; an undefeated two-time champ who was as feared as any back then. And barely won a minute. Weight? Maybe. Something tells me no version of Toney was touching Roy that night.

I actually agree with you,I think Roy Jones beats any version of Toney.
But I dont believe a healthy Toney loses like that.

True Guru
01-25-2010, 05:21 PM
I actually agree with you,I think Roy Jones beats any version of Toney.
But I dont believe a healthy Toney loses like that.

IMDAZED
01-25-2010, 05:28 PM
I actually agree with you,I think Roy Jones beats any version of Toney.
But I dont believe a healthy Toney loses like that.

Maybe. If he couldn't show up for what I believe was his first PPV, who cares? Anyway, still a great win for Jones.

And anyone talking about Michalchewski was ducked by Roy is just a hater. Seriously.

donkim
01-26-2010, 02:19 AM
:bottle:Does baby want his bottle?


LMAO at this wrestling fan defending his E friend.


You + E friends = failure.

General Zod
01-26-2010, 06:49 AM
I actually agree with you,I think Roy Jones beats any version of Toney.
But I dont believe a healthy Toney loses like that.
I agree, he would of given a better account of himself even if he lost.

True Guru
01-26-2010, 11:30 AM
LMAO at this wrestling fan defending his E friend.


You + E friends = failure.

Your mums cunt = smelly failure:puke:

donkim
01-26-2010, 12:11 PM
Your mums cunt = smelly failure:puke:



The last time that you were anywhere near a cunt was when you popped you out out of that decrepit hole that your mother called a vagina.

True Guru
01-26-2010, 12:13 PM
The last time that you were anywhere near a cunt was when you poppped you out out of that decrepit hole that your mother called a vagina.

You are the reason why siblings shouldnt ****.

donkim
01-26-2010, 12:17 PM
You are the reason why siblings shouldnt ****.



I don't care to know how your mommy and daddy spawned you and the other cretin.

True Guru
01-26-2010, 12:29 PM
I don't care to know how your mommy and daddy spawned you and the other cretin.

Carry on and I will **** you till you love me F.A.G.G.O.T!!!!!!:luvbed:

General Zod
01-26-2010, 12:36 PM
Carry on and I will **** you till you love me F.A.G.G.O.T!!!!!!:luvbed:
lol at the Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis prefight faceoff reference.:dance:

donkim
01-26-2010, 12:39 PM
Carry on and I will **** you till you love me F.A.G.G.O.T!!!!!!:luvbed:



Well,atleast we have now established that you're a homosexual.This would explain your love of wrestling.

True Guru
01-26-2010, 01:31 PM
Well,atleast we have now established that you're a homosexual.This would explain your love of wrestling.

:lol1: Who said I love wrestling?
Oh right cus I got a pic of one :lol1:

Damn have you saw some of the avvys round this joint?
Take your one for instance...going by your logic it looks like you enjoy seeing Bernard Hopkins getting his salad tossed like when he was in jail.:luvbed:

donkim
01-28-2010, 04:02 AM
:lol1: Who said I love wrestling?
Oh right cus I got a pic of one :lol1:

Damn have you saw some of the avvys round this joint?
Take your one for instance...going by your logic it looks like you enjoy seeing Bernard Hopkins getting his salad tossed like when he was in jail.:luvbed:




LMAO at you.You have even changed your avatar since then.What's the matter,feeling a little insecure now are we?

ericj916
02-28-2010, 03:20 PM
i've heard a couple of times that he handpicked his opponents, now i wasnt following boxing back then, but to me it seems that he fought everybody that he could, he was just on a way higher level.

but then, he could've fought Tyson instead of Ruiz too right? this all is getting a little confusing. can someone explain this a little more clearly?

He fought everyone he could hemoved through 6 weight classes in order to find competition but naturally he is beast. as for ducking people styles make fights it doesnt make sense to fight someone who contradicts your style

Jim Jeffries
02-28-2010, 04:00 PM
Well I don't think fighting Ruiz instead of Lennox Lewis was a complete accident.

frankenfrank
03-01-2010, 07:15 AM
roid jones is really a bigger , earlier version of floyd that needed some heavy juicing to be such.

yes , jones and floyd, but especially jones are the epitomes of handpicking opponents. why fight lindell holmes when he could fight jorge vaca ?
why chase jackson when he could call out norris ?
why fight mcclellan or benn when he could fight pazienza ?
why fight liles when he could fight mccallum ?
and why fight tyson when there is ruiz with a belt ?
however , i never accused him for not defending his belt against his mandatory , vitali klitschko.