View Full Version : What do you guys think of my ATG P4P List??


Fighting Marine
01-21-2010, 09:13 AM
Give me your thoughts...........


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Sugar Ray Leonard
7. Roberto Duran
8. Benny Leonard
9. Harry Greb
10. Archie Moore

mickey malone
01-21-2010, 10:39 AM
It's a very good list..

I'd be inclined to take out Ray Leonard in favour of Joe Gans.. I feel there was too much inactivity and not enough fights on Ray's resume to warrant a top 10 spot.. Other than that, they're the names i'd use, but in a slightly different order and with the inclusion of Sam Langford, but the agony is: Who do i move to make room for him?.. Regretably, it'd probably be Benny Leonard, because like yourself, i've always rated him a knats **** below Duran.. Benny also spent his whole career at lightweight, where as Gans and Duran also performed well in higher weight divisions..

Henry Armstrong
Ray Robinson
Harry Greb
Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Joe Gans
Willie Pep
Sam Langford
Roberto Duran
Archie Moore

With Benny Leonard & Jimmy Wilde, jollying for the no11 spot..

donkim
01-21-2010, 10:46 AM
Quite laughable that Louis is placed so high up on these lists.Louis wasn't even the greatest heavyweight of all time and he wasn't a greater fighter than Ezzard Charles either.



Duran the quitter doesn't deserve to be on such a list either.

Fighting Marine
01-21-2010, 11:05 AM
It's a very good list..

I'd be inclined to take out Ray Leonard in favour of Joe Gans.. I feel there was too much inactivity and not enough fights on Ray's resume to warrant a top 10 spot.. Other than that, they're the names i'd use, but in a slightly different order and with the inclusion of Sam Langford, but the agony is: Who do i move to make room for him?.. Regretably, it'd probably be Benny Leonard, because like yourself, i've always rated him a knats **** below Duran.. Benny also spent his whole career at lightweight, where as Gans and Duran also performed well in higher weight divisions..

Henry Armstrong
Ray Robinson
Harry Greb
Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Joe Gans
Willie Pep
Sam Langford
Roberto Duran
Archie Moore

With Benny Leonard & Jimmy Wilde, jollying for the no11 spot..
interesting that you have armstrong ahead of ray robinson, even though robinson beat armstrong, albeit towards the end of his career.......but if Armstrong wasn't robbed for that middleweight title he would definetly have a stronger case

Fighting Marine
01-21-2010, 11:07 AM
Quite laughable that Louis is placed so high up on these lists.Louis wasn't even the greatest heavyweight of all time and he wasn't a greater fighter than Ezzard Charles either.



Duran the quitter doesn't deserve to be on such a list either.
lol dude....why the hate for 2 great fighters??? Duran quit at a much higher weight than he was accustomed to.....take into account that Duran was a lightweight who had the balls to face some of the greatest welterweights and middleweights of all time

The_Demon
01-21-2010, 11:21 AM
lol dude....why the hate for 2 great fighters??? Duran quit at a much higher weight than he was accustomed to.....take into account that Duran was a lightweight who had the balls to face some of the greatest welterweights and middleweights of all time

ignore that guy,hes a retarded troll who scurries around picking fights with people to try and compensate for his lack of boxing knowledge

mickey malone
01-21-2010, 12:33 PM
interesting that you have armstrong ahead of ray robinson, even though robinson beat armstrong, albeit towards the end of his career.......but if Armstrong wasn't robbed for that middleweight title he would definetly have a stronger case
I've got Armstrong at the very top, partly because of what you mentioned.. Had Armstrong been given the nod, instead of the debatable draw with Ceferino Garcia, he'd have won 4 undisputed titles from a total of 8 weight divisions, meaning, he'd have won 50% of everything there is in pro boxing..
Ironically, Armstrong had already beaten Garcia at welterweight..

And yes, Robinson does hold a DC victory over a past prime Armstrong..
Ray had been beaten only once in 45 starts at the time, and was a lot bigger than Hank, who'd won his 1st title at featherweight many years earlier..

One more round
01-21-2010, 08:11 PM
lol dude....why the hate for 2 great fighters??? Duran quit at a much higher weight than he was accustomed to.....take into account that Duran was a lightweight who had the balls to face some of the greatest welterweights and middleweights of all time

We have been asking that question for damn near 6 months now.....

McGrain
01-22-2010, 02:24 PM
01 - Harry Greb
02 - SamLangford
03 - Sugar Ray Robinson
04 - Henry Armstrong
05 - Ezzard Charles
06 - Muhammad Ali
07 - Bob Fitzsimmons
08 - Willie Pep
09 - Archie Moore
10 - Benny Leonard

tyger
01-23-2010, 12:58 AM
Give me your thoughts...........


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Sugar Ray Leonard
7. Roberto Duran
8. Benny Leonard
9. Harry Greb
10. Archie Moore


Looks good to me, I might have moved Louis up one and I also could understand arguments for moving Duran up but you have it good enough.

CCobra
01-23-2010, 07:11 AM
I've never understood how people can rank Ray Leonard ahead of Ezzard Charles. As far as I see it, Charles is a top 10 P4P fighter in the sports history. His resume has so much depth, he's regarded as one of the greatest technicians of all time. He's often regarded as the greatest LHW of all time and is often ranked among the great HW fighters. He beat ATG fighters at MW, LHW and HW.

mickey malone
01-23-2010, 07:40 AM
I've never understood how people can rank Ray Leonard ahead of Ezzard Charles. As far as I see it, Charles is a top 10 P4P fighter in the sports history. His resume has so much depth, he's regarded as one of the greatest technicians of all time. He's often regarded as the greatest LHW of all time and is often ranked among the great HW fighters. He beat ATG fighters at MW, LHW and HW.
Totally agree.. I'm not even sure if i'd have Leonard in my top 20..
And i hate to say it, but i'm wrestling with my conscience as Charles is'nt in my top 10.. I'm now thinking he should be..

CCobra
01-23-2010, 07:57 AM
Totally agree.. I'm not even sure if i'd have Leonard in my top 20..
And i hate to say it, but i'm wrestling with my conscience as Charles is'nt in my top 10.. I'm now thinking he should be..

Leonard's resume has no depth whatsoever. He has 4 ATG fighters and all were either post-prime or weight drained. Marvin Hagler was post-prime, a post-prime and weight-drained Roberto Duran (who beat him first time round anyway) and a weight-drained and overtrained Thomas Hearns (who whooped him second time round anyway).

Charles is streaks ahead of Leonard, which is why it pains me when I see Leonard ranked ahead of Ezzard Charles.

donkim
01-23-2010, 05:39 PM
Leonard's resume has no depth whatsoever. He has 4 ATG fighters and all were either post-prime or weight drained. Marvin Hagler was post-prime, a post-prime and weight-drained Roberto Duran (who beat him first time round anyway) and a weight-drained and overtrained Thomas Hearns (who whooped him second time round anyway).



How do you know Duran was "weight drained"? because fatty Duran can't accept the fact that he lost?


Hearns was overtrained was he? Please go away.You know nothing about Hearns training preparations.


What you neglect to mention is that Leonard was well past his sell by date against both Hagler and in the rematch against Hearns.


Hagler was the middleweight who was beaten by a washed up,inactive welterweight......so to make excuses for Miss Marvis is laughable.

Yaman
01-23-2010, 06:07 PM
Leonard's resume has no depth whatsoever. He has 4 ATG fighters and all were either post-prime or weight drained. Marvin Hagler was post-prime, a post-prime and weight-drained Roberto Duran (who beat him first time round anyway) and a weight-drained and overtrained Thomas Hearns (who whooped him second time round anyway).

Charles is streaks ahead of Leonard, which is why it pains me when I see Leonard ranked ahead of Ezzard Charles.

This is more influenced by dislike it seems. You can't just discredit every huge win, you can do that to any fighter. Leonard, like Ali, was fortunate to have fought in an era where he could face so many legit ATG's and actually beat them as well. Also keep in mind that Leonard's full potential wasn't even fulfilled.

Duran
Hearns
Hagler
Benitez
And other good fighters like Mayweather sr. Sure it was a short prime but you can't argue with wins against fighters of this level. These guys sure didn't look post prime or unfit untill Leonard outpointed them.

cotto16
01-23-2010, 07:00 PM
Leonard's resume has no depth whatsoever. He has 4 ATG fighters and all were either post-prime or weight drained. Marvin Hagler was post-prime, a post-prime and weight-drained Roberto Duran (who beat him first time round anyway) and a weight-drained and overtrained Thomas Hearns (who whooped him second time round anyway).

Charles is streaks ahead of Leonard, which is why it pains me when I see Leonard ranked ahead of Ezzard Charles.

You can dowgrade anyone's resume, like you just have!

mickey malone
01-24-2010, 01:23 AM
QUOTE:DONKIM: How do you know Duran was "weight drained"? because fatty Duran can't accept the fact that he lost?

Well Donny LaLonde certainly was.. Leonard's 'special conditions' clause, had him deliberately starved, so that greedy Ray could pick up two belts, the later being Lalonde's WBC light heavyweight championship..

tanibanana
01-24-2010, 02:16 AM
Monte Cox once wrote; "When one considers 120 years of boxing history the gap between number one and number two is invisible. Indeed the gap between numbers one and ten is very small. It's like splitting hairs. Indeed an argument could be made that virtually any of the boxers in the top ten could be considered for the top spot".

here's mine..
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Roberto Duran
5. Willie Pep
6. Joe Louis
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Carlos Monzon
10. Eder Jofre